Guild Wars 2

I don’t get why people spend money on a chance to get an item when you could literally spend the same amount to buy the item on the trading post. Then again, I don’t get why people still play slot machines, but oh well.

If you feel the prices for the Halloween model skins are over-priced (and honestly? I agree that they are), then be patient. Wait.

ANet’s inclusion of the Mad King Chest recipe for the Mystic Forge essentially means that they’ve increased the potential pool of BLC skins in the community by an exponential amount since the player base can continue to generate Mad King Chests from the Mystic Forge long after Halloween is over for as long as there are Candy Corns in circulation in the economy. (I’m willing to bet that there’s tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of CC’s out there right now, more than enough to last us all the way till next year’s Halloween.)

Over the next few months, as the novelty of the Halloween weapons wears off and more MKC’s enter the economy, the price WILL fall, and it will eventually drop into a range you’re willing or able to afford.

Opened about 22 Mad King Chests… no skin

http://imgur.com/ayEkj

I don’t think I’ll be taking any more chances w/ my money come the winter event.

ok, so let me get this right.
RARE
1. Infrequently occurring; uncommon

GAMBLE
1. A bet, wager, or other gambling venture.
2. An act or undertaking of uncertain outcome; a risk: I took a gamble that stock prices would rise.

So people spent their money to gamble on a rare skin, knowing that the % would be very low (if everybody had one it wouldn’t be rare)
Then because people complained on the forum they go back and pretty much make a new gamble using trash stuff. And again (you shouls know it is still a low %) people didn’t get what they wanted so AGAIN we complain on the forum.
Tomorrow ANet will just mail everyone a voucher for a skin or put them on the BLTC, so that EVERYONE will have this RARE skin…..
I myself spent $50 dollars on keys and didn’t get squat, I then used my tonics and boosts to make MKCs and got a few crafting mats…I moved on and am playing the game happily because I knew it was a GAMBLE to begin with.

Have we noticed the usage of RARE & GAMBLE

I wish I had just kept most of the boosters instead, heh.

27 BLC, 13 MKC. Didn’t get much of anything from either (none of the rare stuff) but it was just worthless boosters/tonics used to make MKC so I really don’t care. Inventory of the 13 MKC:
- 183 candy corn
- 9 ToT bags (non personalized)

- 9 spooky skeleton tonics
- 3 spooky zombie tonics
- 3 plastic spider tonics
- 6 candy corn tonics

- 11 plastic fang
- 5 chattering skulls
- 15 nougat centers

- 1 glacial fragment
- 1 onyx fragment
- 1 charged shard
- 1 charged fragment

edit: @ above, it was never stated that the skins contained in the black lion chests were rare… If that were the case this whole mess would have been avoided

Hopefully they do not carry this type of system into future holidays. It’s absurd how we could go from GW 1, wherein holiday-specific skins/armors were nothing more than just a small bit of elbow grease away, yet now it’s come to potentially spending easily upwards of $40+ on either keys for chests, gems for gold, or any combination of that just to try and get something.

And the fact that these mad king chests rely only upon specific BLC items, instead of the entirety of the things that come from it, doesn’t exactly help. I have about 10-15 black lion tools littering my bank, not to mention repair canisters, revive orbs, bank shards, and an endless tonic I’m not interested in.

Instead of this constant reliance on the laziest and greediest of design choices, why not simply put the skin on the shop, if this is the road they wish to go down? Make it account-bound, 1-time skin like the other skins are.

And, as a retort to someone’s comment about WoW and its low-chance drop, you are referring solely to the headless horseman mount. Yet generally speaking, every single halloween-specific item is easily available with just some effort, and I’m more than willing to bet that the drop rate on the horse is higher than these skins all together.

It’ll be a shame to see these events ruined because of blatant greed. Yes, there are always things to do in game tied to it like the scavenger hunt, yet with a game based mostly upon giving you cosmetic options instead of an ever-climbing treadmill, this kind of thing can reflect negatively on the event itself.

And, as a side note, can the devil horns get a little upgrade? I mean god, my demon horns in GW1 were just plain awesome, why can’t we have those again for GW2?

Close to 40 mad king chests and no skins but I am content. I am glad they did not up the rare drop rate it would have made it cheap. I got what I did want which was halloween trash plenty of candy corn, halloween potions and other craftables. This is what I was expecting when I started opening chests for a holiday event.

In my eyes they have redeemed themselves.

zaneber.6908:

ok, so let me get this right.
RARE
1. Infrequently occurring; uncommon

GAMBLE
1. A bet, wager, or other gambling venture.
2. An act or undertaking of uncertain outcome; a risk: I took a gamble that stock prices would rise.

So people spent their money to gamble on a rare skin, knowing that the % would be very low (if everybody had one it wouldn’t be rare)
The because people complained on the forum they go back and pretty much make a new gamble using trash stuff. And again (you shouls know it is still a low %) people didn’t get what they wanted so AGAIN we complain on the forum.
Tomorrow ANet will just mail everyone a voucher for a skin or put them on the BLTC, so that EVERYONE will have this RARE skin…..
I myself spent $50 dollars on keys and didn’t get squat, I then used my tonics and boosts to make MKCs and got a few crafting mats…I moved on and am playing the game happily because I knew it was a GAMBLE to begin with.

Have we noticed the usage of RARE & GAMBLE

Please show everyone on these forums where the store or patch notes say the chance is rare. Please do. I can tell you many of my guildmates do not come to the forums at all and believe the chests are bugged – not that the chance is rare since nowhere in game does it tell anyone that, even to this day with the new Mad King Chests.

This whole fix is commonly known as “rubbing salt in the wound”.

Considering they are account bound, why are players who opened BLC BEFORE the Mystery Tonic patch punished?

You can’t ‘hoarde’ account bound tonics, so what is the difference?

Altosk.8492:

kaffaljidhma.1496:

Altosk.8492:

riddleguy.9738:

Vanguardian.4921:

So Anet is all this and all that just because each and every one of you doesn’t get exactly what you want? They took an extra step to give you another chance, it’s called gambling for a reason.

The above sums up my opinion. I think some of you guys are judging a bit harshly….this is only act 1. We have no idea what rewards/content the other 3 acts have to offer.

There shouldn’t be this type of gambling in a holiday event at all and it doesn’t matter what the other acts will offer because they can’t exactly turn around and make these skins easily obtainable now cause that would just be shooting us in the face. They should had never been in the BLC to begin with but instead been a individual item you could buy from the shop, a item from a karma merchant or even a random reward from a jumping puzzle in lions arch. Hell they could had even made it a costume brawler champion reward. There were so many other GOOD possibilities than the money hungry method they chose. It’s a bit clear that this event was more of a money maker for them than a event for the community.

I for one spent about 4k gems on keys and got nothing and then flipped all my items in the mystic forge for the about 42 new chests and still got nothing again. Thanks for a memorable Halloween and I for one will be staying clear of the rest of the events and not be buying anything from you unless I know its 100% guaranteed.

Good. If it’s not fun, don’t do it. That will be better for everyone in the end.

That’s not the point I’m making. I actually found all the events to be fun and well done. I just have a gripe with the way they went about distributing these weapon skins. They should had been easily obtainable or sold individually like the witch and mad king costume.

The witch and the mad king costume do not compete with cosmetic craftables/forgeables, which I believe was a purposeful distinction, because it has been that way since release.

I think the general rule is that anything that affects the main guild wars stat and battle cosmetic economy is going to be hard to get, while everything peripheral (like town clothes, costume potions, and dye) is going to be commonly easy and somewhat cash based.

You didn’t say anything of value, i was attempting to mock you.

I’m not whining, I’m not bothered that i didn’t get anything from the chests, I am however, disgusted with these business practices and i’m attempting to reassure Arena net that this isnt the route they should be going down.

And it’s not a kittening casino. It’s an mmorpg. Stop comparing it to lotteries, casinos, and gambling. It should never go that far, Ever. the fact people are saying “hurdy durr casino chances LEL get over it” is completely irrelevent, There shouldnt be a kittening casino in the first place. It’s not about winning or losing, it’s the principle.

The TP stuff is still seeded through crates. and the only decent skins are something along the lines of 40g, If you’re incapable of farming that before the holiday event ends, the prices will be skyrocketing. if any are available at all, given its a consumable.

I’m completely aware of that, I’ve played both games extensively and have strong opinions of various aspects of both, But that’s irrelevant. In that game there’s usually two holiday situations.

You get X amount of tries for the 1% drop rate in said holiday, This doesnt guarantee that you will get an item, but ensures everybody has the exact same chances to get it. if you don’t, tough luck. It’s fair to everyone.That’s fine.

You can farm X item infinite amount of times, and X item has a 0.1% chance to drop the rare item, or is available for Y amounts of X item, Ensuring everybody can eventually get the rare item assuming they put in enough effort.

The situation we have with this event crate, is the fact it can only be seeded into the game by buying a key worth 125 gems, That’s worth around 1.5 dollars(?) The drop rate so far has been estimated at around 1-2%, That means in order to have a “Decent” chance of getting the skins, you have to put in 75-150 dollars, and even then, It’s not a guarantee, you could spend thousands and still not get it because “LOL CASINO, ITS ONLY A CHANCE” This favours people with (kittenING HUGE)Disposable income, as opposed to people who have a spare 10-20 and some time in their holiday. It

I don’t see how that’s appropriate, at all. Encouraging gambling isn’t Something any company who sells their product to underage teens should be doing.

-Cont next post, Over 5000 Characters.

Well that was a load of crap. I spent more than the game was worth. Nothing to show for it even after all of this. QQ rage rage. All of that crap. I won’t be buying halloween skins again. Anet, say good bye to me ever purchasing anything from the cash shop again.

Still missing the point mate, It’s not about rarity. legendaries are rare and don’t contain any elements from the cash shop(albeit you could purchase gold, But whatever)

The problem is the fact the item was seeded as an incredibly low drop rate from an item that can only be attained from the cash shop(with minor exceptions), Low drop rates are fine. Low drop rates from something which can only be purchased with real cash? That’s not fine, That’s gambling, Underage gambling in a lot of cases. It’s completely inappropriate for this environment. not to mention despicable business practices.

Rare items are fine. Casinos, Lotteries, whatever you want to refer them as, are not.

I’ve said my bid for tonight, I waited up late for the patch, heh.

Don’t expect any more replies from me on this topic, I’m done with it, I purchased this game in good faith after hearing about the various promises and good will the developers ensured pre launch, And after discovering that their owner(?) is NCsoft, I can’t help but think that they’re having a terribly negative influence on what would otherwise be a relatively decent game launch.

Have a good Halloween Guys, and remember kids, Gambling is bad.

I think Anet could avoid half the flaming if they put you have xx chance of getting xx item.

Kinda like lottery tickets are like.(Or the lottery in general.)
That way players cant complain about it as much.

As for the lottery system, most gave Anet the benifit of the doubt. (Compared to many Free to play, Cash shop pay to win games.) And after this event, those people may not ever spend their money on CS lotto items.

As with the real lottery you win and lose some. This game is no different.
Though I don’t agree with how low the chances are to getting the skins, there isn’t much which can be done about it. All Arena Net can do is read the threads and posts, take suggestions and move on for the next event.(Most likely Christmas.)

Hopefully they will take some good suggestion which have been posted in the forums about adding armor holiday skins, making skins not only town clothes, adding weapon skins into the shop, and taking out the lottery.

We don’t know if they will or not, but there’s always hope Anet might take suggestions.

What they should have done is made the lesser skins a 1 in 5 chance in the MCs – that way almost everyone would have got something out of it without the feeling of getting cheated – lol I mean, you’ll always get someone complaining they didn’t get rare recipes etc but, thats not the point.

I very much doubt they’ll give vouchers – I have a feeling for the next few days, we’ll hear nothing on this subject and they’ll just let the forums vent and settle down. However, being a veteran of many MMos including ones that had gambling for rare items, I’ll tell you one thing – people don’t forget when they feel cheated, sure some people will definitely ragequit over this, others like myself will take a break and come back after the events ended but everyone will remember this event when its time for the next one, and I’m willing to bet the gem sales will suffer next time.

We should have gotten a chance at a skin in the Mad King chests and 1 piece of Halloween Currency. So, maybe every 5 chests or whatever is “reasonable” still got you a skin that you could purchase with said currency. Maybe even shoulders = 2, 1 handed weapons = 5, and 2 handed = 10? I dunno… Just something I thought of.

With all of these “black eyes” and “slaps in the face” people are complaining about, I’m surprised ArenaNet hasn’t been arrested for domestic violence yet. ;D

The level of entitlement that people have about things continues to disappoint me. =/

Wayshuba.5912:

zaneber.6908:

ok, so let me get this right.
RARE
1. Infrequently occurring; uncommon

GAMBLE
1. A bet, wager, or other gambling venture.
2. An act or undertaking of uncertain outcome; a risk: I took a gamble that stock prices would rise.

So people spent their money to gamble on a rare skin, knowing that the % would be very low (if everybody had one it wouldn’t be rare)
The because people complained on the forum they go back and pretty much make a new gamble using trash stuff. And again (you shouls know it is still a low %) people didn’t get what they wanted so AGAIN we complain on the forum.
Tomorrow ANet will just mail everyone a voucher for a skin or put them on the BLTC, so that EVERYONE will have this RARE skin…..
I myself spent $50 dollars on keys and didn’t get squat, I then used my tonics and boosts to make MKCs and got a few crafting mats…I moved on and am playing the game happily because I knew it was a GAMBLE to begin with.

Have we noticed the usage of RARE & GAMBLE

Please show everyone on these forums where the store or patch notes say the chance is rare. Please do. I can tell you many of my guildmates do not come to the forums at all and believe the chests are bugged – not that the chance is rare since nowhere in game does it tell anyone that, even to this day with the new Mad King Chests.

This whole fix is commonly known as “rubbing salt in the wound”.

He’s right that it does say rare on the new update notes for the Mad King chests. I’m not sure if the original notes did for the Black Lion chests.

However, I wouldn’t call the drop rate of the skins “rare.” I’ve seen people estimating the drop rate at below 5%, which is way less frequent that I would consider rare to be. This is why actual lotteries don’t just say you have a low chance to win. They explicitly tell you what your chance is. I wouldn’t have spent 30 gold buying keys if I knew the drop rate was <5% and not just “rare.”

Caedere.9427:

With all of these “black eyes” and “slaps in the face” people are complaining about, I’m surprised ArenaNet hasn’t been arrested for domestic violence yet. ;D

The level of entitlement that people have about things continues to disappoint me. =/

Care to explain why people who are spending $10 per 800 gems or large amounts of gold are displaying an unreasonable level of entitlement? Shouldn’t people be entitled to something when they’ve paid (sometimes actual, real dollars) for it? At the very least we should be entitled to hard numbers and not just misleading words about rarity.

Wayshuba.5912:

zaneber.6908:

ok, so let me get this right.
RARE
1. Infrequently occurring; uncommon

GAMBLE
1. A bet, wager, or other gambling venture.
2. An act or undertaking of uncertain outcome; a risk: I took a gamble that stock prices would rise.

So people spent their money to gamble on a rare skin, knowing that the % would be very low (if everybody had one it wouldn’t be rare)
The because people complained on the forum they go back and pretty much make a new gamble using trash stuff. And again (you shouls know it is still a low %) people didn’t get what they wanted so AGAIN we complain on the forum.
Tomorrow ANet will just mail everyone a voucher for a skin or put them on the BLTC, so that EVERYONE will have this RARE skin…..
I myself spent $50 dollars on keys and didn’t get squat, I then used my tonics and boosts to make MKCs and got a few crafting mats…I moved on and am playing the game happily because I knew it was a GAMBLE to begin with.

Have we noticed the usage of RARE & GAMBLE

Please show everyone on these forums where the store or patch notes say the chance is rare. Please do. I can tell you many of my guildmates do not come to the forums at all and believe the chests are bugged – not that the chance is rare since nowhere in game does it tell anyone that, even to this day with the new Mad King Chests.

This whole fix is commonly known as “rubbing salt in the wound”.

On the other hand, nowhere in any official response did they say that the skins were guaranteed or that there was a high chance of getting them. The argument relies on the semantic assumption of what “chance” means to you, and that is actually a vague enough term to make you cautious of any assumptions. Some people consider 1/100 a low chance, and some consider it a moderate or high chance depending on the context, but you cannot say that default assumption is that it is a high or low chance.

I’m glad they attempted to rectify the situation. But they failed. I’m no stranger to “packs”, hell I played Perfect World and spent over $10,000 there over a few years. ANet needs to take lessons from more experienced cash shop models. I won’t be spending any more money on ANet unless some drastic changes occur.

Wayshuba.5912:

zaneber.6908:

ok, so let me get this right.
RARE
1. Infrequently occurring; uncommon

GAMBLE
1. A bet, wager, or other gambling venture.
2. An act or undertaking of uncertain outcome; a risk: I took a gamble that stock prices would rise.

So people spent their money to gamble on a rare skin, knowing that the % would be very low (if everybody had one it wouldn’t be rare)
The because people complained on the forum they go back and pretty much make a new gamble using trash stuff. And again (you shouls know it is still a low %) people didn’t get what they wanted so AGAIN we complain on the forum.
Tomorrow ANet will just mail everyone a voucher for a skin or put them on the BLTC, so that EVERYONE will have this RARE skin…..
I myself spent $50 dollars on keys and didn’t get squat, I then used my tonics and boosts to make MKCs and got a few crafting mats…I moved on and am playing the game happily because I knew it was a GAMBLE to begin with.

Have we noticed the usage of RARE & GAMBLE

Please show everyone on these forums where the store or patch notes say the chance is rare. Please do. I can tell you many of my guildmates do not come to the forums at all and believe the chests are bugged – not that the chance is rare since nowhere in game does it tell anyone that, even to this day with the new Mad King Chests.

This whole fix is commonly known as “rubbing salt in the wound”.

Do people not get the concept, they are rare weapon skins that are being gambled for.
If you go to a casino and play games and they are having a drawing for say a car. You should know that the % of you actually winning money or the car is going to be low.
Gambling means that usually the odds are stacked against you. I have seen plenty of people linking that they got the skins. So the chests can’t be bugged.

Nor did I say ANet said the chance was rare, it is a rare item for a reason. If everyone could win one why post it as a rare…that is my point.

Soniti.6851:

Caedere.9427:

With all of these “black eyes” and “slaps in the face” people are complaining about, I’m surprised ArenaNet hasn’t been arrested for domestic violence yet. ;D

The level of entitlement that people have about things continues to disappoint me. =/

Care to explain why people who are spending $10 per 800 gems or large amounts of gold are displaying an unreasonable level of entitlement? Shouldn’t people be entitled to something when they’ve paid (sometimes actual, real dollars) for it? At the very least we should be entitled to hard numbers and not just misleading words about rarity.

In my opinion, nobody should spend $100 for any virtual item, no matter how pretty it is. I’d rather rampant spending on such a low yield system be extinguished for the good of all involved.

I guess I got extremely lucky then
I didn’t spend any real money, just used keys that I have
didn’t expect to get any ‘worthy’ things at all

13 BLC, got 1 armor skin and from 5 mad king chest, i got the greatsword skin

Soniti.6851:

Wayshuba.5912:

zaneber.6908:

ok, so let me get this right.
RARE
1. Infrequently occurring; uncommon

GAMBLE
1. A bet, wager, or other gambling venture.
2. An act or undertaking of uncertain outcome; a risk: I took a gamble that stock prices would rise.

So people spent their money to gamble on a rare skin, knowing that the % would be very low (if everybody had one it wouldn’t be rare)
The because people complained on the forum they go back and pretty much make a new gamble using trash stuff. And again (you shouls know it is still a low %) people didn’t get what they wanted so AGAIN we complain on the forum.
Tomorrow ANet will just mail everyone a voucher for a skin or put them on the BLTC, so that EVERYONE will have this RARE skin…..
I myself spent $50 dollars on keys and didn’t get squat, I then used my tonics and boosts to make MKCs and got a few crafting mats…I moved on and am playing the game happily because I knew it was a GAMBLE to begin with.

Have we noticed the usage of RARE & GAMBLE

Please show everyone on these forums where the store or patch notes say the chance is rare. Please do. I can tell you many of my guildmates do not come to the forums at all and believe the chests are bugged – not that the chance is rare since nowhere in game does it tell anyone that, even to this day with the new Mad King Chests.

This whole fix is commonly known as “rubbing salt in the wound”.

He’s right that it does say rare on the new update notes for the Mad King chests. I’m not sure if the original notes did for the Black Lion chests.

However, I wouldn’t call the drop rate of the skins “rare.” I’ve seen people estimating the drop rate at below 5%, which is way less frequent that I would consider rare to be. This is why actual lotteries don’t just say you have a low chance to win. They explicitly tell you what your chance is. I wouldn’t have spent 30 gold buying keys if I knew the drop rate was <5% and not just “rare.”

you know every mmo got rare things drops below 5% rare mounts in WoW or mini pets are less than 1% I know I farmed them all
also your another post is quite invalid this one
“Care to explain why people who are spending $10 per 800 gems or large amounts of gold are displaying an unreasonable level of entitlement?”
if you spent 800 gems you can buy costume or head or minis no one is forcing you to gamble it on chance … I spent gems on minis that is 100% chance)

Please don’t spend $10,000 on a video game. I am glad to hear that you have finally ceased this behavior.

20 BLC No skin useless tonics + boosters

12 MC No skin

30$ spent in game.

thank you very much Anet for the opportunity to “get” the skin, but i wont buy more gems from you.

Riel.2160:

Soniti.6851:

Wayshuba.5912:

zaneber.6908:

ok, so let me get this right.
RARE
1. Infrequently occurring; uncommon

GAMBLE
1. A bet, wager, or other gambling venture.
2. An act or undertaking of uncertain outcome; a risk: I took a gamble that stock prices would rise.

So people spent their money to gamble on a rare skin, knowing that the % would be very low (if everybody had one it wouldn’t be rare)
The because people complained on the forum they go back and pretty much make a new gamble using trash stuff. And again (you shouls know it is still a low %) people didn’t get what they wanted so AGAIN we complain on the forum.
Tomorrow ANet will just mail everyone a voucher for a skin or put them on the BLTC, so that EVERYONE will have this RARE skin…..
I myself spent $50 dollars on keys and didn’t get squat, I then used my tonics and boosts to make MKCs and got a few crafting mats…I moved on and am playing the game happily because I knew it was a GAMBLE to begin with.

Have we noticed the usage of RARE & GAMBLE

Please show everyone on these forums where the store or patch notes say the chance is rare. Please do. I can tell you many of my guildmates do not come to the forums at all and believe the chests are bugged – not that the chance is rare since nowhere in game does it tell anyone that, even to this day with the new Mad King Chests.

This whole fix is commonly known as “rubbing salt in the wound”.

He’s right that it does say rare on the new update notes for the Mad King chests. I’m not sure if the original notes did for the Black Lion chests.

However, I wouldn’t call the drop rate of the skins “rare.” I’ve seen people estimating the drop rate at below 5%, which is way less frequent that I would consider rare to be. This is why actual lotteries don’t just say you have a low chance to win. They explicitly tell you what your chance is. I wouldn’t have spent 30 gold buying keys if I knew the drop rate was <5% and not just “rare.”

you know every mmo got rare things drops below 5% rare mounts in WoW or mini pets are less than 1% I know I farmed them all
also your another post is quite invalid this one
“Care to explain why people who are spending $10 per 800 gems or large amounts of gold are displaying an unreasonable level of entitlement?”
if you spent 800 gems you can buy costume or head or minis no one is forcing you to gamble it on chance … I spent gems on minis that is 100% chance)

The difference between WoW and this is that your chances of getting this item are tied directly to your real and virtual wallets. Minis are great if that’s what you want, but for people like me who had their eye on one of the skins, we’re not so lucky. How would you feel if the minis were gambled and the skins were bought?

zaneber.6908:

ok, so let me get this right.
On the other hand, nowhere in any official response did they say that the skins were guaranteed or that there was a high chance of getting them. The argument relies on the semantic assumption of what “chance” means to you, and that is actually a vague enough term to make you cautious of any assumptions. Some people consider 1/100 a low chance, and some consider it a moderate or high chance depending on the context, but you cannot say that default assumption is that it is a high or low chance.

One can safely assume that you will spend $5 – $10 on a virtual item in an MMO. That is pretty standard. However, when a person spends $100 on keys, gets nothing and then effectively puts another $50 worth for a second chance (since the forge require two chests worth of stuff) and STILL gets nothing it has long past reasonable assumption. This is simply about how do you get people to pay ten to twenty times what they would consider reasonable for a virtual item (remember the outcry in EVE over the $70 cosmetic item?).

What has happened here is simple, it’s a fleecing to try and get more cash then people would reasonably spend. Mark my words, this second chance is only going to reinforce why people will not use the cash store in the future.

thekemp.5967:

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Sentinel VX.1392:

thekemp.5967:

Sentinel VX.1392:

It seems you had a bad luck. I only made 5 chests and got destroyer lodestone which worth more than 1 gold LOL.

Just because you didn’t get any thing good doesn’t mean everyone else will experience the same.

Go whine elsewhere, no body cares.

Just because you got something good doesn’t mean everyone else will experience the same.

Go gloat elsewhere, Nobody cares.

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Remember kids, gambling is bad

Heh I never say everyone else will experience the same as I do.

What I hate is whiner who think they should get what they paid for, especially on gambling. It’s like when you are suing an owner of a casino because you are losing money from having bad luck or terrible skill.

Please read carefully what I said on my last post before deducting any conclusion.

You didn’t say anything of value, i was attempting to mock you.

I’m not whining, I’m not bothered that i didn’t get anything from the chests, I am however, disgusted with these business practices and i’m attempting to reassure Arena net that this isnt the route they should be going down.

And it’s not a kittening casino. It’s an mmorpg. Stop comparing it to lotteries, casinos, and gambling. It should never go that far, Ever. the fact people are saying “hurdy durr casino chances LEL get over it” is completely irrelevent, There shouldnt be a kittening casino in the first place. It’s not about winning or losing, it’s the principle.

So you are blaming Anet because people being irresponsible with their own money? That’s just stupid.

If you don’t like the system don’t buy the key, as simple as that.

The problem is people blaming Anet because they are having bad luck, What I can say is they have their own responsibility with their own money.

Why do you think casinos exist in real life? Even the government doesn’t put gambling as illegal activity.

It’s your money and it is your responsibility on how you spend it.

Almost EVERY MMORPG out there have this system, even TF2 has this for years without people complaining to valve.

Every item in this chest is purely cosmetic, that’s right it doesn’t offer any advantage other than being cool.

People need to grow up and have responsibility for themself.

Honestly, the amount of money ppl are spending on these. The thing is ppl want the items for cheap. That, is what it comes down to. Well, if you’re one of those people who is prepared to spend loads on keys for chests you should stop for a few minutes think what you are prepared to spend for it and knowing the chances are insanely slim, buy the 5 key pack to try your luck. If it’s a no go and you don’t get to collect your "$200 " but are still willing to spend more for a chance at a cheaper way to get the skin you want, stop, and just sell turn those gems to gold and buy the skin you want….

@Sentinel VX

It really depends on where you are from. I mean, when it comes to casinos, gambling is illegal in the US except in certain states and reservations.

PlagueParade.7942:

Honestly, the amount of money ppl are spending on these. The thing is ppl want the items for cheap. That, is what it comes down to. Well, if you’re one of those people who is prepared to spend loads on keys for chests you should stop for a few minutes think what you are prepared to spend for it and knowing the chances are insanely slim, buy the 5 key pack to try your luck. If it’s a no go and you don’t get to collect your "$200 " but are still willing to spend more for a chance at a cheaper way to get the skin you want, stop, and just sell turn those gems to gold and buy the skin you want….

It has nothing to do with wanting to get them cheaply or easily. If I could go carve 150 pumpkins for one of the skins, I’d be doing it. I’m not doing it because titles don’t interest me. If I knew I was going to spend 30+ gold on keys and not get the skin I wanted, I wouldn’t have done it and would have saved up to buy it from the trading post.

Wayshuba.5912:

zaneber.6908:

ok, so let me get this right.
On the other hand, nowhere in any official response did they say that the skins were guaranteed or that there was a high chance of getting them. The argument relies on the semantic assumption of what “chance” means to you, and that is actually a vague enough term to make you cautious of any assumptions. Some people consider 1/100 a low chance, and some consider it a moderate or high chance depending on the context, but you cannot say that default assumption is that it is a high or low chance.

One can safely assume that you will spend $5 – $10 on a virtual item in an MMO. That is pretty standard. However, when a person spends $100 on keys, gets nothing and then effectively puts another $50 worth for a second chance (since the forge require two chests worth of stuff) and STILL gets nothing it has long past reasonable assumption. This is simply about how do you get people to pay ten to twenty times what they would consider reasonable for a virtual item (remember the outcry in EVE over the $70 cosmetic item?).

What has happened here is simple, it’s a fleecing to try and get more cash then people would reasonably spend. Mark my words, this second chance is only going to reinforce why people will not use the cash store in the future.

I agree and I can understand people being unhappy. Yes we love vanity items, seen them in alot of games. But we are not forced to buy them nor are they important to finish the game. ANet is not a sub game, they have (IMO) done a great job at adding content and fixing content, also knowing that not everyone has disposable income to buy from they cash shop. But they get the same basic content that everyone else gets.

I am sorry that people feel they were ripped off and lost in the gamble. I guess my mind works differently.

Sentinel VX.1392:

Why do you think casinos exist in real life? Even the government doesn’t put gambling as illegal activity.

First, this is an MMO NOT a casino. When did it become acceptable for video games to be considered CASINOS?

Secondly, the federal government does not put limits on gambling because of the land usage which makes it a sovereign right of the state governments, of which in the vast majority of states in America gambling is illegal. The only exception is Native American reservation lands, which is how most states (like Michigan and Washington State where ArenaNet is HQd) have casinos.

I am surprised at what amount of players apparently think this is “core” halloween content, and hence they “must have” the skins.

Have you even stopped a brief moment to consider the implications of a low-chance drop before you spent money on chests?
TF2 does the same thing with the keys, and surprisingly people managed to work it out there (a FPS!) that just buying the keys rampantly isn’t going to guarantee you jack all, much less a hat or multiple of them. That’s the whole point of a chance-based drop.

The reasoning you should use is this:

1. Can I use boosters?
2. Do I have some gold or euros spare?
3. Hrm, might as well open a few chests then.

And then you might actually get super super jackpot lucky and end up with a permanent bank access item or a halloween costume or whatever.
If you buy the chests for them, you are ignoring what the chests actually reward (which is Boosters, the tonics are mostly filler).

It’s not the dev’s fault you apparently can’t read.
It’s not “pay 2 win”. Unless that skin comes with a 50000 range instakill AE for WvW.
It’s not crappy design either. Check TF2’s rampant success with chests for another example of how we players like the gambling aspect behind it.

And, while we’re at it:
Apparently it works. You (assuming you, the one reading, bought plenty keys to open the chests) spent a ton of money on chests, even fully knowing (or simply ignoring despite being trivially able to know) that there is factually no chance of getting a skin from the chests.

Bobobejumbo.4951:

I’m glad they attempted to rectify the situation. But they failed. I’m no stranger to “packs”, hell I played Perfect World and spent over $10,000 there over a few years. ANet needs to take lessons from more experienced cash shop models. I won’t be spending any more money on ANet unless some drastic changes occur.

If you spend 10k on cash shop, I think you got bigger problems than whether that shop features chests (a successful model, whether you like it or not, you’re not the only player any more, back when I played EQ we were 250k players peak and that was considered a smashing success, nowadays SW:ToR’s 1 million players was utter failure) or not.

Soniti.6851:

PlagueParade.7942:

Honestly, the amount of money ppl are spending on these. The thing is ppl want the items for cheap. That, is what it comes down to. Well, if you’re one of those people who is prepared to spend loads on keys for chests you should stop for a few minutes think what you are prepared to spend for it and knowing the chances are insanely slim, buy the 5 key pack to try your luck. If it’s a no go and you don’t get to collect your "$200 " but are still willing to spend more for a chance at a cheaper way to get the skin you want, stop, and just sell turn those gems to gold and buy the skin you want….

It has nothing to do with wanting to get them cheaply or easily. If I could go carve 150 pumpkins for one of the skins, I’d be doing it. I’m not doing it because titles don’t interest me. If I knew I was going to spend 30+ gold on keys and not get the skin I wanted, I wouldn’t have done it and would have saved up to buy it from the trading post.

That’s why PlagueParade said to test the waters first. Spend a small amount of gems on keys to test the waters. If you don’t get one with that minimal investment, you know it’s rare. Stop for a minute then, and go do your research with people who have done the same thing. If only a minimal number of them actually get an item, then you’ll know approximately what your chances are.

Buying tons of keys off the bat and opening chests all at once deprives you of the benefit you would have gotten with a little patience and good natured teamwork. Like the fact that liquid karma is affected by karma boosts – if you chugged them without experimenting and data gathering, you would miss out on 20k karma for the monthly.

Remember that next time: do a bit of experimentation yourself, then rely on the community’s body of science to get you enough data to make an informed decision. Look before you leap.

Has anyone here ever played secret Santa? You all get a buy limit of maybe ten dollars, and you put down some dumpy trinket, and you all trade and open the boxes and play with it for a few days. It’s not like you were expecting a new George Forman or something, you go in expecting something silly like a huge collection of bendy straws, and you play with them for fun.

People keep going on about it being a lottery, and being gambling, and all that, and I’m not sure I get that we’re all on the same page. No one went into this thinking it was a lottery. I certainly didn’t, and it sounds like no one else did either. I went into this expecting secret Santa. Ten dollar buy in, swing around a dumpy chainsword for a week or two, decide that my high class mesmer looks silly with it when the world isn’t spooky, go back to actually working for a boss looking weapon.

Most people aren’t complaining that they went into this thinking they were going to get something legendarily rare, and they didn’t. They’re wondering why AN snuck in a lottery system on something that sounded like it was meant to be in good fun. For whatever reason, AN has always seemed content to hold their numbers next to their chest and hide behind vague words.

It’s not just in here, it’s in everything. What do different abilities have for healing power ratios? Only playtesting will reveal it. What’s the formula for armor vs. damage? Well, playtest and find out.

The problem is, AN has made a ton of people playtest their Random Number Generator with their money this time. That’s silly. Should have played secret Santa, went for a lasting piece of economy instead.

kaffaljidhma.1496:

Soniti.6851:

PlagueParade.7942:

Honestly, the amount of money ppl are spending on these. The thing is ppl want the items for cheap. That, is what it comes down to. Well, if you’re one of those people who is prepared to spend loads on keys for chests you should stop for a few minutes think what you are prepared to spend for it and knowing the chances are insanely slim, buy the 5 key pack to try your luck. If it’s a no go and you don’t get to collect your "$200 " but are still willing to spend more for a chance at a cheaper way to get the skin you want, stop, and just sell turn those gems to gold and buy the skin you want….

It has nothing to do with wanting to get them cheaply or easily. If I could go carve 150 pumpkins for one of the skins, I’d be doing it. I’m not doing it because titles don’t interest me. If I knew I was going to spend 30+ gold on keys and not get the skin I wanted, I wouldn’t have done it and would have saved up to buy it from the trading post.

That’s why PlagueParade said to test the waters first. Spend a small amount of gems on keys to test the waters. If you don’t get one with that minimal investment, you know it’s rare. Stop for a minute then, and go do your research with people who have done the same thing. If only a minimal number of them actually get an item, then you’ll know approximately what your chances are.

Buying tons of keys off the bat and opening chests all at once deprives you of the benefit you would have gotten with a little patience and good natured teamwork. Like the fact that liquid karma is affected by karma boosts – if you chugged them without experimenting and data gathering, you would miss out on 20k karma for the monthly.

Remember that next time: do a bit of experimentation yourself, then rely on the community’s body of science to get you enough data to make an informed decision. Look before you leap.

You’re definitely right, it is my and other people’s own faults for continuing to buy keys. I won’t even be leaping next time if they tie items to a gamble again, that much is certain.

PotatoOverdose.6583:

Yoshihito.5928:

Taihaku.8412:

So people complain about not winning at the lottery so Anet listens and gives another chance for people to win the lottery but this time include halloween crafting mats and valuable materials and people STILL complain? NOTHING besides making the skins accessible to everyone will satisfy you people.

Ghostwhisper.7921:

this isnt what was advertised PERIOD we have tons of reason to still complain… yeah i got halloween tonics now instead of mystery tonics … would i spend 50$ on tonics???? no way in hell. am i spending another dime on this game if im not refunded for my 50$ in keys no way in hell. you may think its all fine on your patch of grass looking at me on my patch… i dont so go kitten off

NEVER did Arenanet say that the black lion chests had a 100% chance of having a skin. How on earth is this false advertising.

The only reason I was excited for the Halloween event were the skins, especially the Greatsaw Greatsword Skin. But after the crap they pulled, I’m not supporting their company anymore.

New PvP tourney system. 30 new dynamic events. 3 New jumping puzzles. 1 new mini dungeon. So you werent interested in the pvp or pve aspect of this game, only the skins? (and this is ignoring the craftable skins, the scavenger hunt, and the costume brawl)

So do you just play this game to collect skins o.0?

All of that is not the event. Events should be fun and a step away from the normal day to day “grind” that is the normal game. Without spending money or grinding some more, your only skin option is book back piece.

Considering the only rewards in game are the skins, it better be fun.

Everyone coming off TF2 has a major advantage in dealing with the microtransaction economy because Valve honed it down to a science. They aimed to maximize profit and gameplay longevity and they did it systematically. Most importantly, the only feedback they got was numbers – there was never any forum response regarding complaints.

Every pay model should emulate the TF2 economy as much as possible because it is based on a wealth of empirical data and carefully tested principles, and every player should at least acquaint themselves with that system to predict how those emulators will be implemented.

Wayshuba.5912:

Sentinel VX.1392:

Why do you think casinos exist in real life? Even the government doesn’t put gambling as illegal activity.

First, this is an MMO NOT a casino. When did it become acceptable for video games to be considered CASINOS?

Secondly, the federal government does not put limits on gambling because of the land usage which makes it a sovereign right of the state governments, of which in the vast majority of states in America gambling is illegal. The only exception is Native American reservation lands, which is how most states (like Michigan and Washington State where ArenaNet is HQd) have casinos.

Are you being forced to gamble with keys? no? then DON’T do it.

No one are being forced to gamble their own money to get some silly skins, it’s because they WANT to by their OWN will.

I never bought a single key of BLTC and I enjoy this game A LOT.

Soniti.6851:

kaffaljidhma.1496:

Soniti.6851:

PlagueParade.7942:

Honestly, the amount of money ppl are spending on these. The thing is ppl want the items for cheap. That, is what it comes down to. Well, if you’re one of those people who is prepared to spend loads on keys for chests you should stop for a few minutes think what you are prepared to spend for it and knowing the chances are insanely slim, buy the 5 key pack to try your luck. If it’s a no go and you don’t get to collect your "$200 " but are still willing to spend more for a chance at a cheaper way to get the skin you want, stop, and just sell turn those gems to gold and buy the skin you want….

It has nothing to do with wanting to get them cheaply or easily. If I could go carve 150 pumpkins for one of the skins, I’d be doing it. I’m not doing it because titles don’t interest me. If I knew I was going to spend 30+ gold on keys and not get the skin I wanted, I wouldn’t have done it and would have saved up to buy it from the trading post.

That’s why PlagueParade said to test the waters first. Spend a small amount of gems on keys to test the waters. If you don’t get one with that minimal investment, you know it’s rare. Stop for a minute then, and go do your research with people who have done the same thing. If only a minimal number of them actually get an item, then you’ll know approximately what your chances are.

Buying tons of keys off the bat and opening chests all at once deprives you of the benefit you would have gotten with a little patience and good natured teamwork. Like the fact that liquid karma is affected by karma boosts – if you chugged them without experimenting and data gathering, you would miss out on 20k karma for the monthly.

Remember that next time: do a bit of experimentation yourself, then rely on the community’s body of science to get you enough data to make an informed decision. Look before you leap.

You’re definitely right, it is my and other people’s own faults for continuing to buy keys. I won’t even be leaping next time if they tie items to a gamble again, that much is certain.

Good for you. There is plenty this game has to offer besides keys, though if you do wish to supplement your playstyle with boosters, opening chests will actually save you money in the long run.

Ok, the update is fun, but I wonder what about the “old” Black Lion Chest tonics (the BLC before a few updates didn’t drop mystery tonics but specific-creature-transformation tonics instead. Those tonics cant be traded (account bound) and there are people who still has loads of them – is there a chance we could transform them into mystery tonics instead? Firstly – it will save the space, secondly, we will have a way of re-purposing the ones we don’t really need.

Soniti.6851:

Riel.2160:

Soniti.6851:

Wayshuba.5912:

zaneber.6908:

ok, so let me get this right.
RARE
1. Infrequently occurring; uncommon

GAMBLE
1. A bet, wager, or other gambling venture.
2. An act or undertaking of uncertain outcome; a risk: I took a gamble that stock prices would rise.

So people spent their money to gamble on a rare skin, knowing that the % would be very low (if everybody had one it wouldn’t be rare)
The because people complained on the forum they go back and pretty much make a new gamble using trash stuff. And again (you shouls know it is still a low %) people didn’t get what they wanted so AGAIN we complain on the forum.
Tomorrow ANet will just mail everyone a voucher for a skin or put them on the BLTC, so that EVERYONE will have this RARE skin…..
I myself spent $50 dollars on keys and didn’t get squat, I then used my tonics and boosts to make MKCs and got a few crafting mats…I moved on and am playing the game happily because I knew it was a GAMBLE to begin with.

Have we noticed the usage of RARE & GAMBLE

Please show everyone on these forums where the store or patch notes say the chance is rare. Please do. I can tell you many of my guildmates do not come to the forums at all and believe the chests are bugged – not that the chance is rare since nowhere in game does it tell anyone that, even to this day with the new Mad King Chests.

This whole fix is commonly known as “rubbing salt in the wound”.

He’s right that it does say rare on the new update notes for the Mad King chests. I’m not sure if the original notes did for the Black Lion chests.

However, I wouldn’t call the drop rate of the skins “rare.” I’ve seen people estimating the drop rate at below 5%, which is way less frequent that I would consider rare to be. This is why actual lotteries don’t just say you have a low chance to win. They explicitly tell you what your chance is. I wouldn’t have spent 30 gold buying keys if I knew the drop rate was <5% and not just “rare.”

you know every mmo got rare things drops below 5% rare mounts in WoW or mini pets are less than 1% I know I farmed them all
also your another post is quite invalid this one
“Care to explain why people who are spending $10 per 800 gems or large amounts of gold are displaying an unreasonable level of entitlement?”
if you spent 800 gems you can buy costume or head or minis no one is forcing you to gamble it on chance … I spent gems on minis that is 100% chance)

The difference between WoW and this is that your chances of getting this item are tied directly to your real and virtual wallets. Minis are great if that’s what you want, but for people like me who had their eye on one of the skins, we’re not so lucky. How would you feel if the minis were gambled and the skins were bought?

well I want one of those skins but I am just saying I’ll never spend money on gamble
if people did that is their own fault how is this different than buying lottery ticket and then asking for refund because they did not win exactly item they wanted?

I am not sure how long you played wow but there are things players farmed for years and did not get and some things were so expensive on auction house that you could not afford without exploiting …

what I don’t understand is just simple thing anet spent lots of time on this event all things like events decoration they put few skins / minis with 100% chance to get and then put few shoulder and weapon skins in gamble so there is thing for everyone.

I am not sure why are people acting like they NEED to have it or they DESERVE it same items might be dropping next year again for what we knows …

I opened about 5 chest or so not even spent money on keys I did not gen anything and moved along

another thing is we don’t even know what will be final event reward assuming there is one

now I don’t really want to offend you or anyone else
but I just don’t understand what are some people thinking …
Lets just say I grow in country where gameboy was rare thing and not every kid here can have every console + iphone +ipad +ipod
so probably I am not so spoiled about getting everything ….

I’m wondering about those, since I got a lot of tonics that aren’t actually in the mystery tonic rotation. I wonder if I can use those in costume brawl.

Sentinel VX.1392:

thekemp.5967:

Show Spoiler

hide spoiler

Sentinel VX.1392:

thekemp.5967:

Sentinel VX.1392:

It seems you had a bad luck. I only made 5 chests and got destroyer lodestone which worth more than 1 gold LOL.

Just because you didn’t get any thing good doesn’t mean everyone else will experience the same.

Go whine elsewhere, no body cares.

Just because you got something good doesn’t mean everyone else will experience the same.

Go gloat elsewhere, Nobody cares.

Show Spoiler

hide spoiler

Remember kids, gambling is bad

Heh I never say everyone else will experience the same as I do.

What I hate is whiner who think they should get what they paid for, especially on gambling. It’s like when you are suing an owner of a casino because you are losing money from having bad luck or terrible skill.

Please read carefully what I said on my last post before deducting any conclusion.

You didn’t say anything of value, i was attempting to mock you.

I’m not whining, I’m not bothered that i didn’t get anything from the chests, I am however, disgusted with these business practices and i’m attempting to reassure Arena net that this isnt the route they should be going down.

And it’s not a kittening casino. It’s an mmorpg. Stop comparing it to lotteries, casinos, and gambling. It should never go that far, Ever. the fact people are saying “hurdy durr casino chances LEL get over it” is completely irrelevent, There shouldnt be a kittening casino in the first place. It’s not about winning or losing, it’s the principle.

So you are blaming Anet because people being irresponsible with their own money? That’s just stupid.

If you don’t like the system don’t buy the key, as simple as that.

The problem is people blaming Anet because they are having bad luck, What I can say is they have their own responsibility with their own money.

Why do you think casinos exist in real life? Even the government doesn’t put gambling as illegal activity.

It’s your money and it is your responsibility on how you spend it.

Almost EVERY MMORPG out there have this system, even TF2 has this for years without people complaining to valve.

Every item in this chest is purely cosmetic, that’s right it doesn’t offer any advantage other than being cool.

People need to grow up and have responsibility for themself.

You can still get the skins easily in tf2, The only difference is one being an unusual and having a sparkly (arguably pretty lame) effect.

Responsibility is irrelevent, it flat out shouldnt be there in the first place. At all. You’re all jumping at other players at being the root of the problem. Throwing around words like “entitled” and “responsibility”. That’s completely irrelevant, This shouldn’t be in the game in the first place, We shouldnt be having this discussion. It flat out shouldn’t be here. there’s no place for it. it’s an archaic form of business.

Also, VERY FEW top tier mmorpgs have this sort of real money gambling, the only one recently to introduce a similar thing is Runescape, and and that was met with the same controversy as this is, i dont understand where you’re pulling “EVERY MMORPG” from, But that’s an outright lie. No other AAA developer would be caught dead encouraging Real life gambling to minors, It just doesn’t happen. even Activision-blizzard have standards.

And i’m pretty sure i’ve said this several times, But minors play this game, how is encouraging minors to gamble the responsible thing to do?

Sentinel VX.1392:

Wayshuba.5912:

Sentinel VX.1392:

Why do you think casinos exist in real life? Even the government doesn’t put gambling as illegal activity.

First, this is an MMO NOT a casino. When did it become acceptable for video games to be considered CASINOS?

Secondly, the federal government does not put limits on gambling because of the land usage which makes it a sovereign right of the state governments, of which in the vast majority of states in America gambling is illegal. The only exception is Native American reservation lands, which is how most states (like Michigan and Washington State where ArenaNet is HQd) have casinos.

Are you being forced to gamble with keys? no? then DON’T do it.

No one are being forced to gamble their own money to get some silly skins, it’s because they WANT to by their OWN will.

I never bought a single key of BLTC and I enjoy this game A LOT.

Participating or not, Still shouldn’t be an option.

There’s different ways to finance your game, kittenit.

If everyone could farm the holliday skins, they would become common and no one would want them. They aren’t necessary nicer than the skins currently available. With fine transmutation stones in the game, you should be able to find a skin that your happy with. The addition of karma jugs has me considering getting a set of cultural armor. Which in my opion is much nicer than this holliday gear.

Sentinel VX.1392:

Wayshuba.5912:

Sentinel VX.1392:

Why do you think casinos exist in real life? Even the government doesn’t put gambling as illegal activity.

First, this is an MMO NOT a casino. When did it become acceptable for video games to be considered CASINOS?

Secondly, the federal government does not put limits on gambling because of the land usage which makes it a sovereign right of the state governments, of which in the vast majority of states in America gambling is illegal. The only exception is Native American reservation lands, which is how most states (like Michigan and Washington State where ArenaNet is HQd) have casinos.

Are you being forced to gamble with keys? no? then DON’T do it.

No one are being forced to gamble their own money to get some silly skins, it’s because they WANT to by their OWN will.

I never bought a single key of BLTC and I enjoy this game A LOT.

Good that you didn’t, neither did I. However, ArenaNet still needs to make cash to survive and deliver all of us content. When you upset the customer base enough that they refuse to spend money in the shop we ALL lose. I’ve been through this in two other MMOs that both trashed their titles for these quick gains. Long term, it does have a negative effect on all of us – that is the main part that concerns me.

thekemp.5967:

Participating or not, Still shouldn’t be an option.

There’s different ways to finance your game, kittenit.

You mean like subscriptions?