Guild Wars 2

Dust

Hmm, good point you made. I suppose I won’t accept it because ANet won’t really admit it. Since they specifically said they wanted to stay true to the lore of Guild Wars, it would be nice if they actually came clean and said something like, “yeeaahh…we kinda did our own thing here.” =P

now… backs out of room so the fight can continue…

:P

LOL. It’s so ridiculous at this point. I feel like I should make myself popcorn while typing in it.

Ahem! Erm… hating charr, hating charr. Nyah. I think the attitude I really take about GW2 is more like another game in the same universe. The long time laps affords it so that’s where I can find my disconnect from the zeitgeist of the two games. I’m actually hopeful that the GW universe blows up to something like Warhammer (Not the mmo :P). Where we will get more lore and writers and games and books addressing this vast universe with all the diverse cultures and themes. Like some books are written from a human perspective and orcs are one dimensional evil but every once in a while there’ll be a short story from a goblin perspective. Actually, the WH stories may have helped prepare me for the GW2 lore. This way I can get into all the races.

Obsidian.1328:

…I wouldn’t think many here would say the new races shouldn’t be here(although I personally would disagree), it’s the way in which ANet went about it that irks many GW1 vets. It’s almost as if they wanted humans to be looked at in a shameful or pitying way…

Absoluetly. The new team wanted a fresh perspective, and cut off the old gw1 players. The writers, and developers changed a lot of the Guild Wars universe and wanted to market it to a new audience. But they disregarded their core playbase (guild wars 1 players) for the sake of a new game and I think they made a mistake by doing so.

For instance, look at the how the expert of Orr is a Sylvari – not even a single Human in Tyria is an expert on their own history! Or makes any mention of the Searing and the damage is did to the Humans in Ascalon – but to top it off, your character cant even choose their own opinion on the subject matter. It is disgusting writing and storytelling, and a stab in the back to the core fanbase.

The Searing has been mentioned here and there in events, but the Searing itself is over a century or two old. So the impact isn’t as strong compared to surviving it in the first GW.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Arcanist_Davworth

frans.8092:

a) the charr left no structures in the area’s they were supposed to have lived in before the humans. Nothing.
b) the charr had no structures, except those mode of wood and hides in the area they occupied during Eye of the North

These observations support the notion that they lived nomadic rather then that they settled. They were hunters, they wouldn’t have found sufficient prey to hunt if they stayed in one place.

Hey Frans, ever heard of Native Americans? They were nomadic people that followed their food around the plains and build their houses out of hides and sticks… sound familiar yet? Native Americans had defined lands among the tribes and tribes would fight over land. According to your posts however because they do not build structures that stay in one place they have no right to the land. There is barely any record of the Native Americans before 1492 when Columbus arrived in America, so there is little knowledge of how long the Native Americans were in America before the Settlers arrived. The Settlers then took the Native Americans land and built cities in their place. What if the Native Americans band together in 2492 and take back their land? Are they in the wrong or are the Settlers in the wrong?

Native Americans = Charr
Settlers = Humans
America = Ascalon
2492 = 1000 years after the Native Americans began to lose their land.

In my opinion the comparison between Native Americans and the Charr is flawed. Allow me to explain why. First, the Charr weren’t natives of Ascalon. Second, they were hostile towards humans, to say the least, and in GW Prophecies they weren’t victims of human aggression, it was the other way round. Third, after a thousand years humans had become the natives of Ascalon and had every right to live there, and the victims of the genocide called the Searing were innocent.

If the Charr thought they had every right to “retake” Ascalon then the humans of GW2 have another 750 years left during which they have every right to committ genocide onto the Charr, if they had the power to do so. Now do i think so? No, i don’t. The Charr of GW2 can’t be blamed for their ancestors deeds. Does that give them the right to forgiveness for it? No, they have a special responsibility to see to it that such acts of barbarism do not happen again.

Reminds me of today’s Germany which has a special responsibility as well. I’m german, by the way. I used to ask defenders of the Charr in GW1 a question, which was “alright then, when do you give back the US to its rightful owners?” But todays US americans are not responsible for what happened 200 years ago, imo. I think that GW2 shows us a good compromise, the Charr giving the land east of the Dragonbrand to Ebonhawke. More than we humans in the real world manage, usually.

Do I hate the Charr?

That’s a complicated question. lol
I’m not an RPer I’m a player. I don’t differentiate between my characters from GW1 and my characters from GW2. In both cases it’s me that is playing not the great grandson of so and so.

The “problem” I’m having is that the writing in GW1 really pulled me into the story. My main character spent a long time in pre-searing before moving along so I was pretty attached to the area. It was pretty shocking to see Ascalon after the searing. Shoot if you counted up all the Charr he slayed it would probably make Gwen look like an amateur. lol

Honestly the whole situation kitten me off a bit. I personally wanted to defend Ascalon and forget about the whole main storyline. I didn’t have that option though.

In GW2 it may be a couple of hundred years ago to my characters but like mentioned above it was only a few weeks ago for me. I’m not ready to just move on from what happened in GW1. Going to Ascalon now just makes me mad to see Charr walking around in control after killing thousands and thousands of them by myself to keep them out. The ghosts everywhere is just the icing on the cake.

Where things are for me right now is that I don’t want anything to do with the Charr. I checked out the living story and after a minute or so I was like screw you I’m out of here. I don’t go back to Ascalon because you can’t do anything there without helping them.

I can’t say that I really hate them but I am a bit bitter that after spending countless hours defending Ascalon we lost anyway.

Chrispytoast.3698:

frans.8092:

a) the charr left no structures in the area’s they were supposed to have lived in before the humans. Nothing.
b) the charr had no structures, except those mode of wood and hides in the area they occupied during Eye of the North

These observations support the notion that they lived nomadic rather then that they settled. They were hunters, they wouldn’t have found sufficient prey to hunt if they stayed in one place.

Hey Frans, ever heard of Native Americans? They were nomadic people that followed their food around the plains and build their houses out of hides and sticks… sound familiar yet? Native Americans had defined lands among the tribes and tribes would fight over land. According to your posts however because they do not build structures that stay in one place they have no right to the land. There is barely any record of the Native Americans before 1492 when Columbus arrived in America, so there is little knowledge of how long the Native Americans were in America before the Settlers arrived. The Settlers then took the Native Americans land and built cities in their place. What if the Native Americans band together in 2492 and take back their land? Are they in the wrong or are the Settlers in the wrong?

Native Americans = Charr
Settlers = Humans
America = Ascalon
2492 = 1000 years after the Native Americans began to lose their land.

Native Americans were peaceful for long even after the conquestadors had arrived. Charrs live to wage war on anything they can do just to kill and make a bloodshed.

So if native Americans would kill off 90% of America with nuclear bobmbs, that would be fair and rightful.

And charrs didn’t stop at Ascalon, so if native Americans would go to destroy Europe and Australia, that would be fair and rightful in your opinion.

Your example is just a fail.

Native Americans are very very far from this situation.

My use of Native Americans was not supposed to be a 1-1 mapping of Charr and Humans, it was meant to interject a real life example that is similar to what happened between the Charr and Humans. I know that the Charr are warmongering people and because of this they were easily swayed to worship false gods bent on destruction.

@ Gandarel, if Native Americans were a war mongering people who began to worship a god that gave them immense power to overthrow the “race” that forced them out of their lands they would only attack America and England, as that is the “race” that pushed them out in the first place. If Native Americans did rise up and destroyed the land (Searing) and then marched on the capital and the president (Aldebern(sp)) decided to nuke America to kill all the Native Americans that were here would be a much closer real life representation than the Native Americans killing 90% of Americans.

^

That’s a bit of an overstatement. First of all, not only did the Charr want to conquer anyone in their path(not just humans), but they also didn’t need any prodding from the Titans. The Titans were a means to an end to the Charr, the “end” being humanity’s annihilation. They were especially ticked off at humans because apparently they were the only ones to beat them on the battlefield and force them to retreat, albeit with divine intervention.

And saying they were swayed by the Titans would be like saying a terrorist was being swayed by an arms dealer. They already want to destroy, the dealer(Titans) just gave them the means to do it.

GW2 charrfan newbies only see the whole lore from this post-made charr frendly view, overwriting all we had known in GW1.

GW2 tries to convince everyone that poor charrs lost their lands. With Ascalon, they lost like 1/4 of their lands.

Btw: charr claim Ascalon was their land, but can they prove that? Or was that just a borderline vaste? They want to portray Ascalonians as barbaric evil foes. In Ascalon Catacombs story mode, one of the ghosts is actually peaceful and doesn’t want to harm the players, and starts a conversation with Eir. Then Rytlock goes mad, shouting “DISPATCH HER” before anyone could change his/her mind about charr and Ascalonians.
Even he knows that charrs are wrong and Ascalonians were just defending their homes.

Chrispytoast.3698:

… According to your posts however because they do not build structures that stay in one place they have no right to the land. …

I never said that. Please reread my post.

The lack of structures build by Charr could be explained if they were nomadic. That is basically what I said. Glad you agree.

That said, it’s fairly hard for newcomers to spot that the land they’re about to build on was used by a nomadic tribe earlier. I can see a clash of cultures being inevitable.

Obsidian.1328:

And saying they were swayed by the Titans would be like saying a terrorist was being swayed by an arms dealer. They already want to destroy, the dealer(Titans) just gave them the means to do it.

I thought it was no coincidence that the Titans appeared at that time. It did set a lot in motion. Wasn’t Abbadon involved in it?

frans.8092:

Obsidian.1328:

And saying they were swayed by the Titans would be like saying a terrorist was being swayed by an arms dealer. They already want to destroy, the dealer(Titans) just gave them the means to do it.

I thought it was no coincidence that the Titans appeared at that time. It did set a lot in motion. Wasn’t Abbadon involved in it?

Abaddon wasinvolved. Idk what areyou trying to bring up but this doesn’t affect Obsidian’s reasons and he is right.

frans

Well yes and no.

Before Nightfall and EotN were written, Abaddon was not the man behind the curtain pushing the Titan’s to the Charr like pawns on a chessboard. Proph was a complete story on its own, as was Factions. With Nightfall and Eye, Abaddon was written in as the real force behind all 3 campaigns. It was a good decision imo, it ties all 3 games together without messing with any established lore conventions or storylines.

But yeah, coincidence or not dem Charr still wanted to PvZerg all of human Tyria. :P

Yes! Those kitten hairy animals! They won’t let me give them a belly rub!

I will not be denied!

http://img.izismile.com/img/img6/20130121/640/cat_petting_vs_dog_petting_and_the_winner_is_640_02.jpg

I see people making comparisons between the charr and Native Americans, but I think the more direct parallel is Israel/Palestine. One group was there for a long time, another group came in later, and then the first group eventually came back in and the second group was forced out to the edges.

Now, obviously it’s more complicated than that, but when you boil it down to the basics the charr are the Israelis and the humans are the Palestinians. The charr were there, then the humans came in, then the charr came back and the humans have been pushed to the edges. All of this happened over centuries, the real life situation and its in-game corollary.

Now, I won’t speak on the real life history, because that’s above my pay grade.

In terms of the game’s history, though, if the question is “Who deserves to be here more?”, the answer is no one. Neither race asked to come into existence, so neither can be held accountable for simply wanting to survive. The problem arises when the sides start warring over what they other side has.

They could have co-existed just fine, but individuals became jealous and power-mad. You can’t blame an entire race for the acts of individuals. In the charr’s case, blame falls squarely on the power-mad shamans of Flame Legion. They went so far in the quest for power that they even subjugated their own people, as well as waging war on the humans. And the humans waged war on the charr.

But it took the cooperation of the other legions and the humans, like Pyre Fierceshot and Gwen Thackeray, and the assistance of other races (Dwarves, Norn, & Asura) to finally bring the Flame Legion’s true guilt to light and remove them from power.

The battles between humans and charr since have been less about all out war and more about skirmishing for survival, with both races having to rebuild after the damage caused by Flame Legion. And with threats to the entire world looming in the form of the Elder Dragons, Smodur of Iron Legion and Jennah of Kryta understand that the races are each stronger together than they are separately—just as with Destiny’s Edge; and Gwen, Pyre, Jora, Ogden, & Vekk before them.

So do I hate the charr? No. Do I think either side is more right and more entitled to the land than the other? No. The time for war between humans and charr is over. The time for unity and cooperation is now. So my human fights by their side as equals, as his Ascalonian ancestor did before him.

Romarix.5829:

Yes! Those kitten hairy animals! They won’t let me give them a belly rub!

I will not be denied!

Well some of the more adventurous ones might let you… but then, I rarely see those folks again. The ones I do… they emphatically do not want to talk about the experience.

I’m not a nosy person. I leave it alone.

burn them all, all i have to say.

Charr are all big fluffy tsundere balls for cuddle, ofc you first have to beat them into crying since they would wanna rip your eyes out if you didnt, but still /hug on each of them~

Andele.1306:

Charr are all big fluffy tsundere balls for cuddle, ofc you first have to beat them into crying since they would wanna rip your eyes out if you didnt, but still /hug on each of them~

I-It’s not like I like you humans or anything, stupid meat~!

Andele.1306:

Charr are all big fluffy tsundere balls for cuddle, ofc you first have to beat them into crying since they would wanna rip your eyes out if you didnt, but still /hug on each of them~

Whaddyaknow? Elmyra Duff did live in Ebonhawke after all! lol

CETheLucid.3964:

Andele.1306:

Charr are all big fluffy tsundere balls for cuddle, ofc you first have to beat them into crying since they would wanna rip your eyes out if you didnt, but still /hug on each of them~

I-It’s not like I like you humans or anything, stupid meat~!

http://kurogane.animeblogger.net/image/winter2013/haganai_01_02.jpg

I don’t like the idea of a full war, but I really would like to at least kick all the Charr out of Ascalon and reclaim it. In addition to making the Ebonhawke or New Ascalon segregated from Charr

Some people say the treaty is for convenience, but it can also be because the Charr today grew up with seeing humans as, well, something beyond walking bags of meat. They’re far more civilized now than the Charr of Prophecies and may agree with the treaty simply because, well, what other options are there?

You have to keep in mind the orders as well, who take in anyone regardless of race and those can certainly help to bring the formerly feuding races together through common goals. There are two Priory members by a Cauldron, one Charr and one Human, and they essentially how they should be hating each other–especially in a place as historically loaded as Ascalon–but…they don’t. And it’s kind of silly.

Gandarel.5091:

Got a point there. Charrs got no more rights than humans. Still the game is forcing us to support charrs, even as humans, destroy remnants of Ascalon, even kill the ghosts, bomb their statues and so on.

And if I disagree I am the badguy and considered a separatist. This is a twist after Gw1 that many can’t swallow and was a trerrible idea for the moral.

Even in fractals we kill the Ascalonians, as Flame Legion! We can’t even be against the Flame legion if the other choice would be the Ascalonian side.

Keep in mind, those ghosts are only being killed because they’re blind; they will attack you no matter if you’re a Charr or a non-Charr because all they see is the enemy and cannot see anything else. The Charr are destroying the remains of the Great Northern Wall and the ghosts of Ascalon only because they cannot get over their past. It’s kind of symbolic, actually, if you think about it.

Now, whether the Charr version of the tale is true or the Human version is, the point is that Ascalon needs to be rebuilt from scratch. The Charr (or, the reasonable ones) have already moved on; what about the humans? This is why these old structures, historically important as they are, need to be taken down. It’ll only be a reminder of old, bad blood and things that really shouldn’t’ve happened.

I do agree, however, that the game essentially race-guilting you into supporting the Charr is really dumb, especially since there’s no fractals where you fight as Ascalonians against the Flame Legion.

But also keep in mind: human separatists are who they are because of issues their ancestors couldn’t drop and because some of them are genuinely racist. The Flame Legion still exists because there were generations upon generations of Charr that still believe the humans should have been wiped out a long time ago. Good thing they’re both minorities, huh?

No way. History should not be erased for any reason, even if it means saving a life, or thousands of lives. That’s extremely dangerous territory to tread on Frog. You learn from the past, you don’t try to escape or deny it.

The whole Ascalonian debacle is a failure on ANet’s part to try and rewrite the past, and they shouldn’t have tried to do it in the first place. There are much better ways to introduce a new player race into a game instead of criminalizing an entire culture. They should have written it better if they wanted to do that.

Obsidian.1328:

No way. History should not be erased for any reason, even if it means saving a life, or thousands of lives. That’s extremely dangerous territory to tread on Frog. You learn from the past, you don’t try to escape or deny it.

The whole Ascalonian debacle is a failure on ANet’s part to try and rewrite the past, and they shouldn’t have tried to do it in the first place. There are much better ways to introduce a new player race into a game instead of criminalizing an entire culture. They should have written it better if they wanted to do that.

So what you are saying is that the english should have just left the first settlers (current “MERKANS”) to rot in hell and get slaughtered, that the french should have been wiped from the map by kittens and that rome should have deleted all remains of greece… ok nice~

Huh???

What are you talking about? I’m not sure you read my meaning right…

Obsidian.1328:

Huh???

What are you talking about? I’m not sure you read my meaning right…

Obsidian.1328:

No way. History should not be erased for any reason, even if it means saving a life, or thousands of lives.

What you’re saying here is history trumps life. If it comes to preserving history or saving lives, people have to die. That’s not going to fly for a moral people.

At that, the human account and the charr account have both been preserved in the games story successfully, very well. So it’s a non-starter.

The charr aren’t doing anything worse then the humans by purging the land of threats (chiefly ghosts) and trying to safeguard it for themselves.

A piece of living (as opposed to dead) history has been secured for the humans in the treaty with Ebonhawk. Humans have carved out a place for themselves in Ascalon.

They remain now as they did then. Charr have honored their part and pulled out and back from what was an endless assault against Ebonhawk.

For reason of the peace treaty, humans are allowed in charr lands (ergo, greater Ascalon).

And charr are allowed in the human territories of southern Ascalon, Ebonhawk, near the Ash Legion homelands.

Well I’m saying truth trumps life. It’s morally wrong to hide or change the truth for the sake of life. My comment was aimed at FirebrandFrog’s remark that certain ruins should be removed or taken down for the sake of “moving on” for lack of a better word.

For instance, dismantling something like the museum at Auschwitz because it is difficult to confront or evokes feelings of guilt or shame is just plain wrong. If one is too afraid to confront your past, you don’t deserve to be blessed with a good future. Fear, in any form, is not a good reason for anything…no matter how noble the ends may be.

I love that how it was okay for the charrs to not move on and take revenge more than 1300 years later, commiting genocide and destroying 2 (and a half) kingdoms, but the humans should move on after 200 years because of.. because of stuff and things.

Charrs don’t honor anything, still hate humans, they only made a treaty after having too many enemies and one of them, the humans, brought them an ancient gift.

Yes, the treaty is good, i agree, but the topic is still about “As a human, do you hate the charr”, not “As a charr, do you like the charr”, and if they couldn’t bring the Searing, Ascalon would still stand.

Gandarel.5091:

I love that how it was okay for the charrs to not move on and take revenge more than 1300 years later, commiting genocide and destroying 2 (and a half) kingdoms, but the humans should move on after 200 years because of.. because of stuff and things.

Charrs don’t honor anything, still hate humans, they only made a treaty after having too many enemies and one of them, the humans, brought them an ancient gift.

Yes, the treaty is good, i agree, but the topic is still about “As a human, do you hate the charr”, not “As a charr, do you like the charr”, and if they couldn’t bring the Searing, Ascalon would still stand.

Humans were the initial aggressors. Humans and charr war… forever. Humans finally offer peace and a really good gift for 1300 years of war. Charr accept, gingerly.

CETheLucid.3964:

Gandarel.5091:

I love that how it was okay for the charrs to not move on and take revenge more than 1300 years later, commiting genocide and destroying 2 (and a half) kingdoms, but the humans should move on after 200 years because of.. because of stuff and things.

Charrs don’t honor anything, still hate humans, they only made a treaty after having too many enemies and one of them, the humans, brought them an ancient gift.

Yes, the treaty is good, i agree, but the topic is still about “As a human, do you hate the charr”, not “As a charr, do you like the charr”, and if they couldn’t bring the Searing, Ascalon would still stand.

Humans were the initial aggressors. Humans and charr war… forever. Humans finally offer peace and a really good gift for 1300 years of war. Charr accept, gingerly.

You make me lol. Play some GW1 or don’t come back here. I don’t flood the charr forum with bullkitten, so please, respect this and stop it. Thank you.

Gandarel.5091:

You make me lol. Play some GW1 or don’t come back here. I don’t flood the charr forum with bullkitten, so please, respect this and stop it. Thank you.

Err, I’m a vet from GW1. I play a human character, as well as charr. Both have very rich histories, and I choose to enjoy both.

By all means, have a blast on the charr subforum. I really don’t care what you do with yourself.

It’s.. just a game~

As a Charr Main I enjoy going into human areas and reminding them that we burnt their original capitol down.

As a Human I appriciate my furry overlords.

Sadistis.4257:

As a Charr Main I enjoy going into human areas and reminding them that we burnt their original capitol down.

As a Human I appriciate my furry overlords.

Well if you keep that up, you’ll end up like Azalus Poisontongue. They’ll make an event out of kicking your tail!

Humans had many capitals. Ascalon was just one of them.

Kryta is the last major stronghold of humanity on greater Tyria that isn’t ruled by a crazy undead guy or zealously cut off from the rest of the world by Emperor’s degree.

There are still many humans in the world of Tyria, and several kingdoms therein.

They’ve been thinned out and pushed back everywhere, but for all of that, they’re still literally everywhere. Ascalon included.

It’s foolish to dismiss humans as a dying race as some do.

CETheLucid

I can imagine the reaction of kryta when they find a small fraction of the canthan expansion fleet (still the largest force the continent of Tyria has seen since forever) docking up on the shores of kryta. The krytans would be like: “oh-… h-hey guys, long time no see-… Palls right?.. Guys?-…Guys??!!”. The charr would be laughing their tails off when the Canthan fleet declare Tyria a colony under the empire, that is until they realize that by Tyria they also include Ascalon and Maguuma (the shiverpeaks are cold and useless in their eyes, so that will remain terra incognita for them). It also gets awkward when they realize that if they can go from tents and loincloth to tanks in 250 years of internal turmoil and civil war, a gigantic unified empire with a good deal of a headstart under the iron fist of the canthan emperors can go even further. “Airships? Cool, we brought our inter-dimensional cruisers along. Hope you like nuclear winter by the way!.”

It would be hilarious to see the charr get beaten in their own game of conquest on the battlefield. Of course then i wouldn’t be speaking to you as a working resident of kryta, but as the loyal citizen RKC-ED-13365 helping our great empire (eternal life to the emperor) to achieve its full potential for the good of all of us and in no way supporting the rebels (may they find themselves in a pit full of kappas). “Remember, a working citizen is a happy citizen!”

I for one welcome our new canthan overlords.

Worth it though.

Would be epic if the Canthan expansion would be introduced like this, a month long occupation of the entirety of Tyria. Until we lead the colonists to rebel against their old empire.

EDIT: Or we manage to make Cantha believe we are a loyal colony (since for cantha we are not THAT important) while in reality the “occupiers” just merged with the rest of the population once they realize we got it nicer here.

miriforst.1290:

CETheLucid

I can imagine the reaction of kryta when they find a small fraction of the canthan expansion fleet (still the largest force the continent of Tyria has seen since forever) docking up on the shores of kryta. The krytans would be like: “oh-… h-hey guys, long time no see-… Palls right?.. Guys?-…Guys??!!”. The charr would be laughing their tails off when the Canthan fleet declare Tyria a colony under the empire, that is until they realize that by Tyria they also include Ascalon and Maguuma (the shiverpeaks are cold and useless in their eyes, so that will remain terra incognita for them). It also gets awkward when they realize that if they can go from tents and loincloth to tanks in 250 years of internal turmoil and civil war, a gigantic unified empire with a good deal of a headstart under the iron fist of the canthan emperors can go even further. “Airships? Cool, we brought our inter-dimensional cruisers along. Hope you like nuclear winter by the way!.”

It would be hilarious to see the charr get beaten in their own game of conquest on the battlefield. Of course then i wouldn’t be speaking to you as a working resident of kryta, but as the loyal citizen RKC-ED-13365 helping our great empire (eternal life to the emperor) to achieve its full potential for the good of all of us and in no way supporting the rebels (may they find themselves in a pit full of kappas). “Remember, a working citizen is a happy citizen!”

I for one welcome our new canthan overlords.

Worth it though.

Would be epic if the Canthan expansion would be introduced like this, a month long occupation of the entirety of Tyria. Until we lead the colonists to rebel against their old empire.

EDIT: Or we manage to make Cantha believe we are a loyal colony (since for cantha we are not THAT important) while in reality the “occupiers” just merged with the rest of the population once they realize we got it nicer here.

I should remind you about fate of China Empire. Isolation and lack of strong external enemies with comparable technological and military capabilities – this is one of the worst things that can happen with your country. It corrupts the army to a state of internal police where command posts are sinecure for pompous aristocracy, it’s inhibits the development of technical sciences, the best stimulus for which historically have been studies for the military, it’s limits the development of a culture which is cut off from foreign cultures. Isolation means stagnation and lagging in any progress, it can not help to get stronger, only weaker.

Sadistis.4257:

As a Charr Main I enjoy going into human areas and reminding them that we burnt their original capitol down.

As a Human I appriciate my furry overlords.

Actually, flame legion did, who enslaved your kind. Now you are huting down the flame legion who achieved you the victory. If you couldn’t take a fort without the Flame for 200 years, how could the charrs took a whole kingdom defended by a wall.

And that burnt down kingdom that lost nearly 70-80% of its population, got its buildings and a part of the wall destroyed, was holding back the whole charr race for 30 years.

Weakling furballs

Rednik.3809:

miriforst.1290:

CETheLucid

I can imagine the reaction of kryta when they find a small fraction of the canthan expansion fleet (still the largest force the continent of Tyria has seen since forever) docking up on the shores of kryta. The krytans would be like: “oh-… h-hey guys, long time no see-… Palls right?.. Guys?-…Guys??!!”. The charr would be laughing their tails off when the Canthan fleet declare Tyria a colony under the empire, that is until they realize that by Tyria they also include Ascalon and Maguuma (the shiverpeaks are cold and useless in their eyes, so that will remain terra incognita for them). It also gets awkward when they realize that if they can go from tents and loincloth to tanks in 250 years of internal turmoil and civil war, a gigantic unified empire with a good deal of a headstart under the iron fist of the canthan emperors can go even further. “Airships? Cool, we brought our inter-dimensional cruisers along. Hope you like nuclear winter by the way!.”

It would be hilarious to see the charr get beaten in their own game of conquest on the battlefield. Of course then i wouldn’t be speaking to you as a working resident of kryta, but as the loyal citizen RKC-ED-13365 helping our great empire (eternal life to the emperor) to achieve its full potential for the good of all of us and in no way supporting the rebels (may they find themselves in a pit full of kappas). “Remember, a working citizen is a happy citizen!”

I for one welcome our new canthan overlords.

Worth it though.

Would be epic if the Canthan expansion would be introduced like this, a month long occupation of the entirety of Tyria. Until we lead the colonists to rebel against their old empire.

EDIT: Or we manage to make Cantha believe we are a loyal colony (since for cantha we are not THAT important) while in reality the “occupiers” just merged with the rest of the population once they realize we got it nicer here.

I should remind you about fate of China Empire. Isolation and lack of strong external enemies with comparable technological and military capabilities – this is one of the worst things that can happen with your country. It corrupts the army to a state of internal police where command posts are sinecure for pompous aristocracy, it’s inhibits the development of technical sciences, the best stimulus for which historically have been studies for the military, it’s limits the development of a culture which is cut off from foreign cultures. Isolation means stagnation and lagging in any progress, it can not help to get stronger, only weaker.

Yup. That’s about right.

You have to remember that Cantha did not escape the movement of the world unscathed. What was the Battle Isles in GW1 are likely all underwater now.

Cantha as such being so near to the Battle Isles suffered a similar fate.

Cantha’s (probably) still there, but I’d imagine it’s certainly not a human utopia. A closed off xenophobic dictatorial monarchy is never a good thing.

Unless you’re royalty or blessed to work for such, your quality of life is otherwise zilch.

It’s landmass is in all likelihood considerably less then what it was. Most of Cantha was probably reclaimed by the sea.

They were already living in tight quarters due to overpopulation in the past. It does not bode well for the Canthan empire.

The humans of Tyria are doing considerably better in that light. Maybe we’ll know for sure someday.

Sadistis.4257:

As a Charr Main I enjoy going into human areas and reminding them that we burnt their original capitol down.

As a Human I appriciate my furry overlords.

As a Human main I enjoy going to Charr areas, rolling balls of yarn down the road and watching your citizens just have the time of their lives with them!

Then I lace all your weapons with catnip and offer my services as a merc to kill Flame Legion forces. Its a win-win for everybody when I’m around!

CETheLucid.3964:

Kryta is the last major stronghold of humanity on greater Tyria that isn’t ruled by a crazy undead guy or zealously cut off from the rest of the world by Emperor’s degree.

Hey Joko is a cool guy, i knew him once, then his lovers/yandere/boyfriends latest generation tried to kill me (trough she was cute she had like 6 glowing red eyes, a fancy red cap and crystal meth wings around her, also she made me walk on a dead spider the crazy whench), that kinda annoyed me, but way less than that blind stupid thingamajig.

Rednik.3809:

I should remind you about fate of China Empire. Isolation and lack of strong external enemies with comparable technological and military capabilities – this is one of the worst things that can happen with your country. It corrupts the army to a state of internal police where command posts are sinecure for pompous aristocracy, it’s inhibits the development of technical sciences, the best stimulus for which historically have been studies for the military, it’s limits the development of a culture which is cut off from foreign cultures. Isolation means stagnation and lagging in any progress, it can not help to get stronger, only weaker.

Its not like dredge are isolationistic or anything, neither do their technological advancement rival that of the charr. ;P

Keep in mind that much of the technology they utilize now aren’t directly translated from the dwarves but homemade so to speak (the first real breach of their isolation is their experimental alliance with the inquest and later the legion.

And don’t try to make sense of how realistic everything is in this story, its a bloody mess anyways. Charrs which have been suspicious of others, especially humans, and in a better foot with norn. Decided to basically go from mongols to WW2 tech in a matter of a century or two.

I mean the timeline of the charr must look silly, way back we have the conquering of ascalon, and then a long time after that humans conquering ascalon, and then yet another long period and then charr conquering ascalon again and then a civil war ending with scorchrazor defeating the flamelegion and under the following period of 210 years they go on to invent EVERYTHING just like that. Im not against steampunk and science in a fantasy game, im of the opposite and i love science fiction while despising the “high fantasy attitude” but the chance of charrs going from loin cloth to Jonny Mccoolname spitting helicopters from their armpits and grabbing a bowl of cogs sprinkled with petrol for breakfast in 210 years with the population sizes we are seeing in the game is about as likely as my joke about canthans showing up in spaceships.

And yeah i know that most of our technological advancements might seem to have happened in the last 200 years and it does indeed advance faster the further we come, but the thing is that technological advancements does not just happen with the invention of the steam engine, we have thousands of years of mathematics, physics and other sciences behind us. As someone rather important said, we are standing on the shoulders of giants.

And the charr at least as far as we have heard of didn’t seem like the mathematicians of greece really.

But the thing i have a really hard time getting over with is the decision to not merely have humans halt their advancements entirely, but going backwards in many ways. Yeah i get it we are all beaten and stuff and will die out by gw3, but we had far more of a culture to stand on than the charr, humanity saw many feats of engineering and architecture like the war machines of kourna, the dams of elon, the vengance of the gods, siege turtles, the great wall, original lions arch and so on. They had an actual widespread and exchanging culture but yeah we cut of elona and cantha and suddenly no one can read or count for 250 years. Im not buying that tkittenbon vanguard saw the iron legion unveil their latest warmachine and test firing it at the hawkgates and not thinking “Man, wish i had one of those!”. And im not really buying magic as an argument either, chars certainly have guardians and necromancers in their ranks and either its like the case of the english bowmen that you need hard training to throw fireballs, upon which you might consider the easy to throw grenades or other no-training-required options just like riffles where popularized. Or magic is innate in which it would make sense having something for the ones not capable of blowing a door of its lid with mental force. Or it is easy as 1-2-3 in which case why isn’t every single soldier nuking the crap out of everything with meteors.
But no we are delegated into “knights” (no not really, everything is because of “the folly of man” as caithe put it) in shining armors role so that noone should be distracted from playing the original and creative charr or asura. They weren’t generic in the original, now they are. And i hate being called boring for playing a human. Blame arenanet.

Heck even shining blade, the ash legion of humans are delegated into doorguards just like the seraph/ministry guard (everyone in ugly heavy armor, see a pattern?).

http://wiki.guildwars.com/images/a/ae/Charr_ranger.jpg

CETheLucid.3964:

Rednik.3809:

miriforst.1290:

CETheLucid

.

Yup. That’s about right.

You have to remember that Cantha did not escape the movement of the world unscathed. What was the Battle Isles in GW1 are likely all underwater now.

Cantha as such being so near to the Battle Isles suffered a similar fate.

Cantha’s (probably) still there, but I’d imagine it’s certainly not a human utopia. A closed off xenophobic dictatorial monarchy is never a good thing.

Unless you’re royalty or blessed to work for such, your quality of life is otherwise zilch.

It’s landmass is in all likelihood considerably less then what it was. Most of Cantha was probably reclaimed by the sea.

They were already living in tight quarters due to overpopulation in the past. It does not bode well for the Canthan empire.

The humans of Tyria are doing considerably better in that light. Maybe we’ll know for sure someday.

Cantha is farther from the Battle Isles than the distance between the southest point of Elona to Kryta. So more than a continent away from Orr, from where the flood came.

miriforst.1290:

Its not like dredge are isolationistic or anything. ;P

First, the Dredge are isolationists only in the diplomatic sense, they are not physically isolated from its neighbors. They have constant war with neighbors, and although in this case they show too much enthusiasm and amassed themselves a lot of trouble as a result – but they have also achieved notable success in the development of weapons and equipment.
Second, the part in which they reached the isolation – diplomatic, and cultural – significantly worsens their situation. Now they have a tyrannical government, civil war and big problems at the borders, where they were pushed around from all directions.

Rednik.3809:

miriforst.1290:

Its not like dredge are isolationistic or anything. ;P

First, the Dredge are isolationists only in the diplomatic sense, they are not physically isolated from its neighbors. They have constant war with neighbors, and although in this case they show too much enthusiasm and amassed themselves a lot of trouble as a result - but they have also achieved notable success in the development of weapons and equipment.
Second, the part in which they reached the isolation - diplomatic, and cultural - significantly worsens their situation. Now they have a tyrannical government, civil war and big problems at the borders, where they were pushed around from all directions.

Both dwarves and dredge were isolate from all other species for hundreds of years *only getting seeing some travelers from time to time, in total you can say the dredge were isolated for longer than anyone in cantha ever was *cough dragons/celestials/beings of the mists and underworld that talk with the ritualist/assassin harems that the monks have over there* not to mention that they only isolate from other races since the shiro thing (since strangers saved their bums).

Gandarel.5091:

Cantha is farther from the Battle Isles than the distance between the southest point of Elona to Kryta. So more than a continent away from Orr, from where the flood came.

Okay?

CETheLucid.3964:

Gandarel.5091:

Cantha is farther from the Battle Isles than the distance between the southest point of Elona to Kryta. So more than a continent away from Orr, from where the flood came.

Okay?

I wrote it because you wrote that most of Cantha could be underwater because of the rising of Orr, just because the Battle Isles were flooded and you tought Cantha is so close to those isles that the same happened.. And you are wrong. Very, very wrong.

Okay?

Andele.1306:

Both dwarves and dredge were isolate from all other species for hundreds of years *only getting seeing some travelers from time to time,

During – and before – the time of GW1 the Deldrimor Dwarves were allied with Ascalon and what we see from them doesn’t appear ‘isolated’ at all. The dredge in the Shiverspeaks were enslaved by the Stone Summit, not quite isolated. Not sure how much dealings these dredge had with others, or their cousins in Cantha. Either way, the Tyrian dredge had intimate knowledge of the dwarves in the Shiverspeaks, and presumably their technology.