Guild Wars 2

First lets annihilate the centaurs and the dragons then we can turn on the charrs.

The dragons will always be with Tyria …

Heck, every lifeform kingdom migth even be a dragon’s minions: animals, humanoids included, are in the business of converting matter into more of their own too, if you give it a thought.

Dilige Vitam.1956:

In this thread: People forgetting that Ascalon was originally the Charr’s land and Humans kicked them out of it.

You’re forgetting that, originally, Ascalon was neither’s land and the Charr took it from Grawl and Ogres.

Absolutely, it would be one of the best things they could do with the story.

Bazompora.2635:

Dilige Vitam.1956:

In this thread: People forgetting that Ascalon was originally the Charr’s land and Humans kicked them out of it.

You’re forgetting that, originally, Ascalon was neither’s land and the Charr took it from Grawl and Ogres.

I doubt Dilige is forgetting that.

Dilige Vitam.1956:

In this thread: People forgetting that Ascalon was originally the Charr’s land and Humans kicked them out of it. I don’t understand why any of you seem to think it’s the Human’s right to take it back?

Oh I don’t know, perhaps because it’s the Ascalonian’s home? The Charr never claimed Ascalon as their home, nor is there any mention of them even settling it.

Obsidian.1328:

Oh I don’t know, perhaps because it’s the Ascalonian’s home? The Charr never claimed Ascalon as their home, nor is there any mention of them even settling it.

They did claim it as their ancestral land.

Obsidian, it was established as fact in GW1 that Ascalon was originally Charr land – Humanity

“Ascalon is a beleaguered human nation in Tyria. Originally belonging to the Charr, Ascalon lies between the large Shiverpeak Mountains to the west and the Blazeridge Mountains to the east. Humans conquered a large portion of the land and established Ascalon in 100 BE and holds King’s Watch, where King Doric was crowned. There has been a constant war with the Charr since that time, which had been in Ascalon’s favor due to the Charr’s disorganization until the Searing. With the Searing, the Charr gained the upper hand and even managed to get multiple warbands through Ascalon to head towards Orr. Since then, the battle with the Charr became a true struggle.”

Consider also that BEFORE Humanity came to Tyria the Charr battled with the Forgotten in the Blazeridge Mountains, SOUTH of Ascalon…
“Long after the Forgotten stopped threatening the Charr, the humans appeared and, with the help of their Gods, pushed the Charr from their southern borders, conquering the land that became known as Ascalon in 100 BE.”

I’m sorry Obsidian, but please stop insisting things that have no basis >.>

Dustfinger.9510:

Obsidian.1328:

Oh I don’t know, perhaps because it’s the Ascalonian’s home? The Charr never claimed Ascalon as their home, nor is there any mention of them even settling it.

They did claim it as their ancestral land.

Where does it say that?

FlamingFoxx.1305:

Obsidian, it was established as fact in GW1 that Ascalon was originally Charr land – Humanity

“Ascalon is a beleaguered human nation in Tyria. Originally belonging to the Charr, Ascalon lies between the large Shiverpeak Mountains to the west and the Blazeridge Mountains to the east. Humans conquered a large portion of the land and established Ascalon in 100 BE and holds King’s Watch, where King Doric was crowned. There has been a constant war with the Charr since that time, which had been in Ascalon’s favor due to the Charr’s disorganization until the Searing. With the Searing, the Charr gained the upper hand and even managed to get multiple warbands through Ascalon to head towards Orr. Since then, the battle with the Charr became a true struggle.”

Consider also that BEFORE Humanity came to Tyria the Charr battled with the Forgotten in the Blazeridge Mountains, SOUTH of Ascalon…
“Long after the Forgotten stopped threatening the Charr, the humans appeared and, with the help of their Gods, pushed the Charr from their southern borders, conquering the land that became known as Ascalon in 100 BE.”

I’m sorry Obsidian, but please stop insisting things that have no basis >.>

I never said it wasn’t Charr land, it certainly was. I said they never called it their home. There’s a huge difference there.

Obsidian.1328:

Dustfinger.9510:

Obsidian.1328:

Oh I don’t know, perhaps because it’s the Ascalonian’s home? The Charr never claimed Ascalon as their home, nor is there any mention of them even settling it.

They did claim it as their ancestral land.

Where does it say that?

“Although the charr once again control their ancestral homeland of Ascalon, their grip is not as tight as they would like.” https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/races/charr/

Dustfinger.9510:

Obsidian.1328:

Dustfinger.9510:

Obsidian.1328:

Oh I don’t know, perhaps because it’s the Ascalonian’s home? The Charr never claimed Ascalon as their home, nor is there any mention of them even settling it.

They did claim it as their ancestral land.

Where does it say that?

“Although the charr once again control their ancestral homeland of Ascalon, their grip is not as tight as they would like.” https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/races/charr/

LOL!! Oh that was a priceless link, I nearly fell out of my seat.

Well played ANet, well played. You beautiful basterds know how to backdoor in a lore hole I’ll give ya’ll that. My hats off to ya. GG

Obsidian.1328:

Dustfinger.9510:

Obsidian.1328:

Dustfinger.9510:

Obsidian.1328:

Oh I don’t know, perhaps because it’s the Ascalonian’s home? The Charr never claimed Ascalon as their home, nor is there any mention of them even settling it.

They did claim it as their ancestral land.

Where does it say that?

“Although the charr once again control their ancestral homeland of Ascalon, their grip is not as tight as they would like.” https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/races/charr/

LOL!! Oh that was a priceless link, I nearly fell out of my seat.

Well played ANet, well played. You beautiful basterds know how to backdoor in a lore hole I’ll give ya’ll that. My hats off to ya. GG

Lol. A-net knows how to plug a hole with a bull dozer :-P

Props to you too Dust, I walked right into it. Rofl.

Another example how they changed the lore to turn the Charr into a playable race. When looking at the GW1 map of Tyria, one can clearly see the Charr Homelands – but oops, it’s not Ascalon.

After a thousand years of living there it had become human land – if claims from a thousand years ago are still valid, then why not claims from 2000 or so years ago, when Ascalon wasn’t Charr land? It also means that humanity got the right to bear a grudge agains the Charr and kill as many as they can for another 750 years, don’t they?

I think the Charr should give Ascalon back to its rightful owners, the Grawl. The Charr can always withdraw to their homelands east of the Blazeridge mountains.

In a setting such as Guild Wars 2, there is only one acknowledgable, “Right,” to any territory or land. The Right of Conquest. That is the only one. If you say you have the right to land, you prove it by conquering it and holding it, or you don’t. In the case of the Charr, they took the lands of Ascalon, -and- they have maintained their control over those lands.

If Humanity (Read: Ascalonians) want the land back, they just have to take it from the Charr and hold it. Simple as that. If they can’t do that, then the land isn’t theirs. Given their reduced population, I wouldn’t expect the Ascalonians to be able to manage that. They seem to have a hard enough time holding onto Ebonhawke.

Can Kryta help the Ascalonians reclaim Ascalon? Sure. But then it’s not really Ascalon, is it? Its just another part of Kryta, which the Krytans have claimed and hold.

Long story short, no matter -what- the Ascalonians do, their homeland is more or less lost at this point. They can’t take it back from the Charr, and enlisting the aid of Kryta to take it back will just make it Krytan land. Even if its called Ascalon and ruled by an Ascalonian, you can bet the formation of its government will have numerous strings attached, all leading back to Kryta. Ascalonian taxes would fill Krytan coffers. The Queen or Ministry would have enough political influence to make or prevent laws.

Ascalon is gone. It’s not coming back. Not by the standards of the setting, at least.

Vexander

Totally agree with you. That’s not really the point though. As Dust’s link has shown, ANet can write in whatever they want to suite their purposes. And they do, constantly. So it doesn’t really matter what happened in the past lore, or what kind of narrative was laid down early on, ANet isn’t really interested in that. The truth isn’t so much “might makes right,” the truth is the pen(cil) is mightier than the sword.

Your last line is so true. It’s not coming back for humanity. Trying to do so would fly in the face of everything they are trying to do with GW2. In GW2 ANet’s eyes, it never was human’s to begin with, so trying to argue GW1 semantics in a GW2 world is like spinning your wheels in the mud. It doesn’t matter in the least.

All

This Ascalon thing will be forgotten in a year or two. It was a microcosm battlefield for the overall change in story direction for GW2, and it’s painfully obvious ANet won’t renege on this. They simply have too much invested in the current narrative. To even try to do so would be akin to admitting they were wrong. And that’s political suicide for them.

The human’s, and their gods, were just a passing phase of antiquity that we can read about in the Durmond Priory. I’d even go so far as to say ANet sees GW1 as a quaint fairy tale. Something to gut for ideas on what to name your next Ascended item, but certainly not something to take seriously. We can either get used to it and accept it, or be relegated to antiquity along with it.

Hey, there’s always fanfiction.

Obsidian.1328:

All

It’s painfully obvious ANet won’t renege on this. They simply have too much invested in the current narrative. To even try to do so would be akin to admitting they were wrong. And that’s political suicide for them.

The human’s, and their gods, were just a passing phase of antiquity that we can read about in the Durmond Priory. I’d even go so far as to say ANet sees GW1 as a quaint fairy tale. Something to gut for ideas on what to name your next Ascended item, but certainly not something to take seriously. We can either get used to it and accept it, or be relegated to antiquity along with it.

Hey, there’s always fanfiction.

Ha! Who is that dude?? Hmm, former famous actor…decade ago…emo teen drama… kitten ! Am I close? Tell me I’m close.

Nicholas S Lin.6187:

Queen Jennah is Regent of (Human) Ascalon – http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Jennah? This has to be a mistake. If not its should be reversed since that honor belongs to the Duke of Ebonhawke – as per a recent post of mine.

Also for convenience: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Wade_Samuelsson – clear states Samuelsson’s lineage – thus rightful current claim to the Ascalonian Crown. And thus he is the title holder – King of Ascalon as per events of GW2!

Actually not really. Don’t forget that the Krytan royal family is descended very directly from the same King that the last King of Ascalon was descended from, so this would actually give Queen Jennah presidence over Commander/Duke Samuelsson. It’s important to note that he is not titled “Prince”, or “King” which pretty much indicates that while he could be descended from Kings of Ascalon, the fact he does not hold a Royal title or even a royal style for that matter, he probably isn’t descended from the last King or royal family of Ascalon directly.

Even when royal families become “formers” they still typically keep some of the titular honour’s as a means to keep track of who would be the legitimate claimant to a restored throne in the future. The fact he is just a Duke of Ebonhawke and only a Lord in Kryta could mean whoever his ancestor is was illegitimate and/or married out of the Royal family, so on and so forth. So ultimately Queen Jennah is more directly related to the last King of Ascalon than he is likely to be.

And if that wasn’t enough, the fact that the Monarchy of Ascalon was effectively abolished when the Kingdom was obliterated would mean that a restored regency/throne of Ascalon would more than likely go to the Queen anyways, even if she weren’t so directly related to the last King because she’s the one who made the treaty happen, work, and sustain. Along with getting Ebonhawke re-opened as a result, and helping them expand back out into the Ascalonian region as you see through the hearts that take place there. None of these things were accomplished or even attempted by Wade Samuelsson in the story. One of his dialogues is “Jennah is our ally, but not our Queen.” if you’re playing a human character…Well, looks like that changed with the treaty, and with more and more of the Ebonhawke citizens realizing what the Queen has effectively done for them and becoming supporters of her, I doubt we would really see all that much resistance to her being Queen of human Ascalon. Many modern day Krytan’s are also Ascalonian’s, and their families would be very loyal to her.

Obsidian.1328:

Ha! Who is that dude?? Hmm, former famous actor…decade ago…emo teen drama… kitten ! Am I close? Tell me I’m close.

not a Fringe fan obviously…

on topic now, my human chars would react thus:

Alejandro Rawtide [Elementalist, Vigil, Lion’s Arch (Krytan)]: Would head to Lion’s Arch, find a nice spot on the beach and order himself some kind of fruity drink, watching the fireworks. He has no stake in this war and would only get involved if asked by a friend or something, for a limited time.
Nagi Phong [Engineer, Whispers, Divinity’s Reach (Canthan)]: Would join the charr army in the name of science. He’d do his best to learn all he could from charr on engineering, war machines and weaponry, sharing the information with the right people in order to end the war sooner.
Kieran Ekene [Guardian, Vigil, Ebonhawke (Orrian)]: Would return to Ebonhawke, defending the city from all attackers, human, charr or otherwise. Supports the Duke’s claim to the throne of Ascalon but would rather see it rebuild as open to all races, after witnessing what the Pact did for Orr.
Vincent Auriel [Mesmer, Priori, Ebonhawke (Ascalonian)]: Would infiltrate the charr army in order to salvage precious artifacts and historical documents. Would use his magic to sabotage any offensive action but would help defend charr lands.
Damien Grimm: [Necromancer, Whispers, Divinity’s Reach (Elonan)]: Would use his noble status to snoop around the court and find out why the war was started and which ministers support it.
Cyrus Torres [Ranger, Vigil, Lion’s Arch (Krytan)]: Would work as a mercenary on either side of the war, protecting innocents when possible. Has no real stake in the matter but won’t say no to profit.
Sefu Farai [Thief, Priori, Divinity’s Reach (Elonan)]: Would join the human army in order to salvage and protect any valuable artifacts they come across while marching through Ascalon.
Boris Romanov [Warrior, Whispers, Ebonhawke (Ascalonian)]: He would infiltrate the human army in order to find out why exactly the war started and whether or not Queen Jennah is of sound mind.

Shanna.4762:

-snip-

You don’t have to be royalty to be eligible for the crown in Ascalon. Adelbern himself was just a common war hero that the people elevated to king over Barradin. Apparently all you have to be is Ascalonian. And a descendant of Doric probably, which Wade is.

Isn’t Samuelsson a war hero?…

smekras.8203:

not a Fringe fan obviously…

No…although I did find out finally where I saw that face before. Let’s just say I was more than a little ashamed that I could remember the commercials for Dawson’s Creek.

Oh god…that Paula Cole song is now stuck in my head.

Help me…

Zaxares.5419:

I would gather my adventuring party and hunt down the obvious doppelganger clone (created by Scarlet?) who’s replaced Queen Jennah and is trying to goad the humans and Charr into war with each other.

This is off topic, but Jenna made the clones, she is a mesmer.

Dilige, I am a Guild Wars (1) player with 30 titles (out of a total of 50) to my name as in I’m a “Closer to the Stars” rank. I do not accept that the Charr had ever any legitimate claim to Ascalonian land south of the Great Northern Wall of the Humans.

I have posted many entries on these forums in the Lore and suggestions sections before the recent reorganisations by Arenanet. I’ve said many things in those posts based on two Lore branches: Accepting the Foefire event or not accepting the Foefire event. I prefer not accepting the Foefire event. And I have built a solid basis for this!

Devona and her band that includes Mhenlo, Cynn, Eve and Aidan and many of the other npc henchmen/women of Ascalon join Adelbern’s guild: Ascalon’s Chosen. After Gwen’s wedding this band returns to Ascalon and helps with the Ascalonian recovery and rebuild. They also add their expertise and knowledge and thus enhancing Ascalonian research and development of magic and military technology including mass production.

Mhenlo, Cynn and Eve are masters of the fields of magic and in many cases, magic is another way of describing advance technology and pure science. The Mages of Ascalon City would have been all ears to learn from them and work with them to further the knowledge they have gain from their adventure throughout Tyria that by then includes the lands of Cantha, Elona and the Shiverpeaks…..

Devona would have been quickly appointed as Adelbern’s and Ascalon’s Chosen’s Champion. She becomes the spear-head of Human Ascalon’s counter offensive. She would work with Gwen and the Ascalon Vanguard (the Ebon Vanguard reclaim their former name under the decree of Adelbern), to buy time for the recovery efforts and the development of better armor and weapons.

The goal being to hold the Charr at the Great Northern Wall, not to defeat them. Ascalon has always been human land by right of first settlement.

Other races may have used Ascalon as part of their hunting grounds but that is not settlement, that is not classed as claiming. Thus the Charr cannot claim that Ascalon was ever theirs!

Human Ascalon would then eventually have Devona as their Queen. As I see her either marrying into Adelbern’s family (Rurik was only the eldest of Adelbern’s heirs) or being put forward by the Ascalonian nobility in much the sam fashion and purpose as they did when they chose Adelbern.

By these designs and actions do the Humans prevent any possible siege of Ascalon City and thus claim and hold Southern Ascalon into the present day (events of GW2).

Would I? I even have a four step plan.

Step 1, recover Gwen Thackeray from the Mists and get her a flute.
Step 2, tell her Ascalon City is in ruins and the charr built a citadel on top of Rin.
Step 3, . . .
Step 4, “Welcome back to New Ascalon, humanity!”

Obsidian.1328:

Shanna.4762:

-snip-

You don’t have to be royalty to be eligible for the crown in Ascalon. Adelbern himself was just a common war hero that the people elevated to king over Barradin. Apparently all you have to be is Ascalonian. And a descendant of Doric probably, which Wade is.

Isn’t Samuelsson a war hero?…

---

smekras.8203:

not a Fringe fan obviously…

No…although I did find out finally where I saw that face before. Let’s just say I was more than a little ashamed that I could remember the commercials for Dawson’s Creek.

Oh god…that Paula Cole song is now stuck in my head.

Help me…

Perhaps, but I am speaking more about Queen Jennah is more closely related to Kings/Queens of Ascalon past than Wade Samuelsson would be. Also, historically there have been similar systems that evolved (or maybe devolved depending on your personal point of view) into purely hereditary monarchies such as Sweden.

I do think it would be interesting to see either aspect of either a unified Kryta & human Ascalon under Queen Jennah, making it the first time in many centuries that the human Kingdoms were a unified “empire” if you will, or the ascension of Wade Samuelsson to the restored throne of Ascalon and a tight alliance between both independent Kingdoms. Either direction could make for really interesting story and timeline events to play through.

Just the way they’ve set it up thus far shows so many signs toward it being a reunified human empire under Queen Jennah, rather than the other option of separate and independent Kingdoms when you take into account what’s going on in the game (the merging/hybridizing & recruiting of the Queen’s military to the Ebonhawke military in that region) and an extremely tiny role that Wade Samuelsson plays in the story overall…Along with the Wiki page update of the Queen being named regent of Ascalon per the treaty. Maybe we’ll have to choose one direction, or the other similarly to the Captains Council thing, or maybe it will just happen and be out of our control altogether. Either way, I want to see a reclaimed & resettled Ascalon…I don’t particularly care which direction it goes in after that but “Wade Samuelsson” is a terrible name for a King…..King Wade of Ascalon…LOL..

Shanna.4762:

Perhaps, but I am speaking more about Queen Jennah is more closely related to Kings/Queens of Ascalon past than Wade Samuelsson would be. Also, historically there have been similar systems that evolved (or maybe devolved depending on your personal point of view) into purely hereditary monarchies such as Sweden.

More closely related? Probably, yeah. I still don’t think that matters to Ascalonians though. Sweden is a RL example and doesn’t reflect the nature of Ascalon politics. Historically Guild Wars speaking, they always had a distrust of Kryta…current circumstances notwithstanding.

Shanna.4762:

I do think it would be interesting to see either aspect of either a unified Kryta & human Ascalon under Queen Jennah, making it the first time in many centuries that the human Kingdoms were a unified “empire” if you will, or the ascension of Wade Samuelsson to the restored throne of Ascalon and a tight alliance between both independent Kingdoms. Either direction could make for really interesting story and timeline events to play through.

ANet will never do it like that though, at least not in any way where Ebonhawke territory starts expanding north. I mean, yeah they could have Wade be “king” of Ebonhawke and allied to Jenna…but he’ll always just be king of Ebonhawke, not Ascalon. Not because it’s not possible. It is. But because this game isn’t designed that way. Every race has their own little “homeland” area and they need Ascalon to be Charr land. They did this for two reasons: 1) they want the cultural diversity to be between the races, not between groups of a single race. That’s just how the game culture is set up. So choosing between the 2 human kingdoms in Tyria(Kryta & Ascalon), Kryta was the obvious choice since human Ascalon was a wreck. And 2) developing the historical Charr homeland northeast of the Ascalon basin meant more design time. The zones, partly because they are so beautiful, take a long time to create, and why waste all that design time when you can simply write off a kingdom that was almost dead anyway. :/ They’ve recently even gone so far as to rewrite history: The GW2 Charr wiki now states Ascalon is their “ancestral homeland” even though on a GW1 map it has it as northeast of there. The Charr are there to stay. Ebonhawke was simply made as a sentimental nod to the old game for the players, that’s pretty much it.

Shanna.4762:

Just the way they’ve set it up thus far shows so many signs toward it being a reunified human empire under Queen Jennah, rather than the other option of separate and independent Kingdoms when you take into account what’s going on in the game (the merging/hybridizing & recruiting of the Queen’s military to the Ebonhawke military in that region) and an extremely tiny role that Wade Samuelsson plays in the story overall…Along with the Wiki page update of the Queen being named regent of Ascalon per the treaty. Maybe we’ll have to choose one direction, or the other similarly to the Captains Council thing, or maybe it will just happen and be out of our control altogether. Either way, I want to see a reclaimed & resettled Ascalon…I don’t particularly care which direction it goes in after that but “Wade Samuelsson” is a terrible name for a King…..King Wade of Ascalon…LOL..

Oh I agree ANet wants it to go that direction, it’s in their best interests to downplay human cultural distinctions and promote racial unity. The game makes more sense that way. Which is probably why they gave Jenna that title…they are trying to slowly push that “one nation” ideal. I’d get all notions of a “reclaimed” Ascalon out of your mind though, it ain’t gonna happen. :P

And yes, Wade is a silly name for a king. GW2 naming conventions are kind of real-life trendy which is sad. I mean even “Jenna” is a bad name for a Tyrian queen. It sounds so…sorority girl to me.(sorry to any Jenna’s out there lol)

Obsidian, what you say may be generally true. But I don’t agree that Arenanet has done a good job of balancing the races. The Humans as a whole are not respected by the other races as a people. The other races may respect certain individuals or organisations but not Humans as a whole.

Humans as a race in GW2 is too weak. The Duke of Ebonhawke’s lands need to be significantly expanded. At the very least The Serenity Temple needs to be rebuilt and there needs to be a human town built around it.

The Territory(Field of Ruins) around Ebonhawke needs to be mostly free of Dragon corruption. The territory should probably re-name Ebonhawke after its most recognised landmark and source of significance. And yes Samuelsson needs to be re-designed and upgraded to a full support character and be recognised as King of Ebonhawke. The fact its this game needs a male character of high rank and significance among at least his people.

Logan Thackeray may be Queen Jennah’s champion but he’s not given enough of a part in the current Lore. And I think the writers has forgotten that he is Ascalonian!!!!

Nicholas S Lin.6187:

At the very least The Serenity Temple needs to be rebuilt and there needs to be a human town built around it.

Can’t happen until the Dragonbrand is cleared from the area, if that is at all possible. Sure, you could build a new one, but I’d much rather spend time reclaiming the Temple of Ages and putting a big seal on the Underworld leaking out through that marsh.

Nicholas

Hey I feel for ya man lol. But it ain’t gonna happen. You have to understand that GW2 is trying to distinguish itself from GW1, and not necessarily be a continuation of. Promoting the other races is just one way to do that, it makes sense from a marketing point of view. You can keep pluggin’ away on these forums about it, The Six know I have lol, but I really don’t see how what you’re talking about is possible for ANet. They made their decision on Ascalon for GW2 like 7 years ago.

If you worked at ANet, how do you think it would go over at the Monday morning staff meeting if you stood up and said, “You know…I know we’ve put in like a million man-hours on this Ascalon-Charr thing, but I think we should scrap it. Or at least have them relocate up north so the humans can start repopulating it. It’s only fair, right? What do you say guys, who’s with me?!?”

crickets

moar crickets

someone hands you a cardboard box

Obsidian.1328:

Nicholas

Hey I feel for ya man lol. But it ain’t gonna happen. You have to understand that GW2 is trying to distinguish itself from GW1, and not necessarily be a continuation of. Promoting the other races is just one way to do that, it makes sense from a marketing point of view. You can keep pluggin’ away on these forums about it, The Six know I have lol, but I really don’t see how what you’re talking about is possible for ANet. They made their decision on Ascalon for GW2 like 7 years ago.

If you worked at ANet, how do you think it would go over at the Monday morning staff meeting if you stood up and said, “You know…I know we’ve put in like a million man-hours on this Ascalon-Charr thing, but I think we should scrap it. Or at least have them relocate up north so the humans can start repopulating it. It’s only fair, right? What do you say guys, who’s with me?!?”

crickets

moar crickets

someone hands you a cardboard box

Actually I could see these days they hand the guy a notepad and pencil and say: “Go write us five thousand words on how you can make it work and not screw this up.”

As I see it the lands surrounding Ebonhawke is of little military value since large tracks of it is corrupted by the Dragonbrand and thus is not a reliable sources of resources and has no cultural/political significance to the Iron Legion the army that occupies Ascalon on behalf of the Charr warbands.

Since the Charr would see little military value in the Fields of Ruins it would not be a source of conflict between the Legion and the humans. This being so, the humans could be allowed to own the Field of Ruins without any lost of face or honor in so far as the Iron Legion is concerned.

And with the Pact Treaty this decision to allow the human to have that land is made even easier. Seeing as now the humans are now allies to the Charr and thus allies of the Iron Legion. It would also not significantly affect the overall Charr domination of Ascalon.

Thus there is no valid reason for not allowing what I suggest to come to be earlier in this sub-forum.

Nicholas S Lin.6187:

As I see it the lands surrounding Ebonhawke is of little military value since large tracks of it is corrupted by the Dragonbrand and thus is not a reliable sources of resources and has no cultural/political significance to the Iron Legion the army that occupies Ascalon on behalf of the Charr warbands.

Since the Charr would see little military value in the Fields of Ruins it would not be a source of conflict between the Legion and the humans. This being so, the humans could be allowed to own the Field of Ruins without any lost of face or honor in so far as the Iron Legion is concerned.

And with the Pact Treaty this decision to allow the human to have that land is made even easier. Seeing as now the humans are now allies to the Charr and thus allies of the Iron Legion. It would also not significantly affect the overall Charr domination of Ascalon.

Thus there is no valid reason for not allowing what I suggest to come to be earlier in this sub-forum.

This has already happened more or less, but you neglect to understand that the area about the Fields of Ruin is Ash Legion territory. It has nothing to do with Iron’s pride.

The negotiations of Ebonhawk could never have been established without Ash Legion agreeing.

Iron and Blood before the treaty stood with Ash Legion against the humans in an effort to take Ebonhawk and push the last remnant out of Ascalon.

That has never been successful, the humans have always held out against them, even pushed them back from there.

With the treaty established, the charr have moved their war forces out of the immediate area and have relented a fair swath of the land there to the humans.

This is an unprecedented concession, and some charr are bitter.

However, the Fields of Ruin remains jointly owned. The greater part of the area that borders the Crystal Desert is Ash Legion territory. This is their homeland.

Humans have established for themselves a place in Ascalon that is truly theirs, and the charr have officially recognized it.

But the greater part, indeed the vast majority of Ascalon is charr territory, and the last major human establishment in Ascalon is in the midst of the Ash Legion’s homeland.
_

At this time, the humans and charr are officially allies and following the LS nothing has really rocked this relationship since the defeat of Zhaitan.

If anything they’ve grown closer. Unity is a key thing against the Elder Dragons and the effort against Zhaitan demonstrated that.

The first major efforts and success against the EDs has been a multiracial one. Unofficially, where the races melt together (LA), their kids are playing with ours, ours with theirs.

The worlds changing.

I would never hurt the charr! (i’m a charrfan myself) they’re too fuzzy. Also in the state humanity is in now.. Driven back to a corner in Kryta I doubt Queen Jennah would wager it to get her race extinct.

CETheLucid.3964:

However, the Fields of Ruin remains jointly owned. The greater part of the area that borders the Crystal Desert is Ash Legion territory. This is now their homeland

Fixed that for you.

I’m a GW Prophecies player and a big fan of preascalon, I’m fascinated by the culture and the architecture of ascalon in general.
So I would follow my Queen, Doric’s blood, to war.

Obsidian.1328:

CETheLucid.3964:

However, the Fields of Ruin remains jointly owned. The greater part of the area that borders the Crystal Desert is Ash Legion territory. This is now their homeland

Fixed that for you.

Yes, yes. The forgotten had it first I suppose. Then there’s the ogres who claim to be older than the mountains (certainly older than the charr).

The charr have certainly been in Ascalon a heck of a lot longer than the humans at any rate. To further cement their position, the charr won the war over the land.

So they win out per longer ancestry and simple war.

Ebonhawk not withstanding (score one for the humans), Ascalon is predominantly a charr nation. That’s just where we are.

The human heritage of Ascalon (the living breed anyway) continues in the land.

They’ve made a place for themselves in Ascalon and they have official recognition from everybody, even the charr.

That’s very impressive for a race that’s been assumed to be on it’s way out.

Its on the way out only because Arenanet whitewash Guild Wars (1) Lore. And wrote the Lore after the wedding of Gwen and Keiran Thackeray to suit the Charr against the interest of Human Ascalon. That’s the truth.

Had the Lore been allowed to progress naturally based on the events of GW1 as I’ve stated in many of my previous posting – Devona would have been crowned Queen of Ascalon after first being appointed his Champion. As Queen she and her friends Mhenlo, Cynn, Aidan, Eve and the others would have made a significant difference.

Their impact on Post-Searing Ascalon on their return from the events of the Eye of the North would have been both measurable and significant. Significant enough to prevent the siege that resulted in the Foefire.

The sum total of their efforts is that present day Ascalon City would remain in human rule. In addition to Ascalon City and Ebonhawke, I see Fort Ranik becoming a major military town with the Ascalonian Miltary Academy there.

Research and Development would remain in Ascalon City along with it being the center of commerce and trade. Ascalon City would also retain the Ascalonian Military Headquarters since Human Ascalon is the frontier for the humans. Mhenlo, Cynn and Eve would establish their own Academy for all branches of Magic in the city as well.

Edonhawke will be a major military base of course but it would serve mainly as human Ascalon’s main industrial and mining center – where the production of heavy weapons and armour is massed produced for the war effort.

Devona, Keiran and Gwen would ensure that they do what they can to make the above come established and let those after them continue their work. Thus ensuring the future of humanity in Ascalon.

As it can be seen humans should have been in a much stronger position in Ascalon in the present day. (Note: I do note accept that Ascalon was ever Charr land in its entirety – the initial Lore of Ascalon does NOT support that claim)

Nicholas that makes absolutely no sense at all..
Devona could NOT be queen of Ascalon because she is not a descendant of Doric. and I’m not even going to go into how ridiculous the rest of your assertions are O_o.

Also the initial lore of Ascalon DOES support the claim.
We always knew in GW1 that the God’s brought the humans to Tyria and they advanced UPWARDS. Ascalon was Charr territory, plain and simple regardless of whether or not you choose to believe it.

FlamingFoxx is right though. GW1 lore never said anything about the Charr only occupying certain parts of the Ascalon basin when humans arrived…it just generalized the whole area. So without mention to the contrary, you have to assume it was all Charr land.

The Searing changed every assumption and prospect of the status quo in Human Ascalon. The situation could not have been more dire and King Adelbern and the nobility of the Ascalonian people knew it.

With Prince Rurik gone there was no obvious choice as to who could give the people the leadership that would ensure the survival of the kingdom within Ascalon. Thus Bloodlines which would otherwise be a deciding factor would then have meant nothing. Noted only as a historical detail. Survival was all.

The land had just been poisoned beyond recognition by the Searing, crops failing and cattle straving. No room for a political decision as to the succession of the Ascalonian throne. In this environment a Champion the likes of Devona would have been an obvious initial move. They needed to rally the military – with a hero of their own no less.

Choosing Devona was Champion would have been a popular decision as well as the correct one. She had the support of the nobility and King Adelbern. With the Charr pressing their advantage this alone would not be enough. They needed the help of all of Devona’s friends and allies (all the other npc henchmen/women of Ascalonian origin as at the events of the Eye of the North).

With all this now in progress and the advance of the years, a successor would have been need to fill the role that Prince Rurik need to have played. A hero king one that would rally every abled body citizen of human Ascalon. And only one person fits that requirement – Devona. Thus it would follow that the nobility would choose her in order to save their lands and themselves. Devona would then been Crown Queen of Ascalon within 5 years of her return to Ascalon after the wedding of Gwen and Keiran Thackeray.

As Queen Devona would with the help of her friends who would now also hold high office in her kingdom ensure that human Ascalon had the war machine that it could otherwise not have. And never had in living memory. Formal Academies and Training facilities for everything that could support the war effort.

Note that while Devona is a Warrior her friends included Mages and Priests and all were just as committed to the cause – saving human Ascalon.

PS: It is has been made clear in Lore that Right of Settlement of a Land is govern by which people has the military might to capture and hold it.

Nicholas you can’t just go spouting off what you think should have happened as fact. The simple matter of the fact is that no, what you are suggesting would have never happened.

At no point during the history of any western kingdom on earth has the crown and throne been given to someone outside of the royal bloodline UNLESS the existing ruler was usurped. Ascalon had no reason to usurp Adelbern, he was still well enough liked. Devona would have never been queen, nor do I think she would have wanted to. It’s also highly unlikely that she stayed in Ascalon after the events of GW1 otherwise you can be sure we would have discovered her ghost somewhere.

What is however quite possible as that after the events of GW1 she, with the player character, returned to Glint’s lair and fought her (we don’t know the reason why it happened only that it did), and was quite possibly killed by Glint.

Canonically Devona and the other members of Ascalon’s Chosen were actually the heroes of the GW1 story (with players being the “hired help”). They were present in all 3 campaigns, went to the Eye of the North, and were present during the War in Kryta and fought against the Ministry of Purity.

I actually find it most plausible that they remained in Cantha afterwards, given that Mhenlo was appointed the new Headmaster of Shing Jea Monastery. Cynn would certainly have stayed by his side, and it’s likely his other friends did so too. Mhenlo likely would have tried to use his position to guide the new Emperor to a more tolerant paths, but as we all know, it didn’t work.

I’m hoping that if/when ANet ever releases a Canthan expansion, we’ll get to find out what happened to Devona and the gang.

Uhh…Western civilizations did choose non-hereditary rulers Foxx. It just didn’t happen all that much. Pre-empire Rome did it all the time for example. The bulk of Medieval and Renaissance kingdoms did keep it “in the family” for the most part, but there were exceptions, without a coup.

As for Devona, she never struck me as the ruling type. And although the Prophecies trailer has her center stage(dual wielding swords interestingly), the in-game features don’t treat her any different from the others in that cadre of Aidan, Cynn, Eve, and Mhenlo. She tends to follow the fights(she was the first to volunteer to go to Cantha with Mhenlo for instance), and her bio states that she values duty and loyalty above all else. Because of that, I disagree with Zax that she would not be present at Ascalon’s demise. Her greatest wish was to emulate her father and die defending “that which is most dear to her”.

So I guess it would be a judgement call on whether she valued her home or her friends more. I choose home because her father did too. :P

That’s a fair enough view. Although the big question would probably be “duty and loyalty to WHO?” Devona and Co. left Ascalon with Rurik, meaning that they chose to follow Rurik’s vision rather than Adelbern’s. If Devona had truly been beholden to the idea of seeing it through to the bitter end, I think she would have remained in Ascalon with Adelbern. The fact that she didn’t suggests to me that she saw that Ascalon was lost, and it would be better to start a new life elsewhere than fighting over the blasted wasteland that remained.

That said, I DO think it’s strange that Devona wouldn’t have come back to Tyria. She and Aidan have much closer ties to Tyria than Cantha, and I’d have thought they would have returned to the Ascalon Settlement to help Captain Greywind build a new life for the Ascalonian settlers once they “retired”. Yet we don’t see gravestones for either of them in the Settlement, and I’d have thought they’d warrant as important personages on the same level as Greywind.

Or perhaps there was yet another war (this time in Elona, with the schemes of Palawa Joko starting to be put into motion. ANet did originally want to do a third GW:Beyond release for Elona, but that got scrapped in favour of GW2), and Devona and the others went there. Only this time, they never returned.

Obsidian.1328:

-snip-

I really should have specified that I meant kingdoms didn’t go from lineal monarchies to other systems unless said monarchy was deposed. I will admit that the way I phrased it was ridiculously incorrect O_o.

Very good point Zax. I always assumed that was for henchman purposes and campaign continuity…but perhaps not. After all, Devona and Co. went everywhere the player did. The Ascalonian Settlement is a possibility I suppose… if she valued Rurik’s vision over Ascalon I would say. Hard to say.

Sucks GW2 chose to immortalize npc’s like Greywind and Kieran over them…they don’t even come into play until EotN. Same with Gwen minus her little flute quest in Pre. :/

Edit: Greywind was in the Ascalon Settlement in Proph…totally missed him lol

FlamingFoxx.1305:

Obsidian.1328:

-snip-

I really should have specified that I meant kingdoms didn’t go from lineal monarchies to other systems unless said monarchy was deposed. I will admit that the way I phrased it was ridiculously incorrect O_o.

Ah, gotcha.

I’m pretty sure there’s a reason that we don’t know what befell Devona and Co. If they had stayed in Tyria then Im sure there would be some trace of them in GW2, at the very least we would be able to visit their grave sites.
(Unless of course they did end up in the Crystal Desert)

FlamingFoxx.1305:

I’m pretty sure there’s a reason that we don’t know what befell Devona and Co. If they had stayed in Tyria then Im sure there would be some trace of them in GW2, at the very least we would be able to visit their grave sites.
(Unless of course they did end up in the Crystal Desert)

/shrug

Oh I don’t know about that. You may think this is biased on my part, but GW2 devs tend to favor things that happened after Nightfall. Take Evennia, one of the most important npc’s to the Proph campaign. Last known location Ascalon. Ever seen her mentioned anywhere in this game?

That’s actually a really good point, Obsidian. She must either have been dead or rescued by the time the Foefire occurred, else we’d likely have seen her ghost around Ascalon by now.