Would You Fight To Reclaim Ascalon?

Would You Fight To Reclaim Ascalon?

in Human

Posted by: Kalavier.1097

Kalavier.1097

Yeah, that thinking was before giant dragons appeared that made all those petty issues suddenly look like a bad idea to hold onto blindly.

See Charr willing to set aside hatred of Ebonhawke humans because they CLEARLY see how big a threat the dragons are with the brand.

…which is exactly why they brought the ED’s on board. Can you not see that?

In other words, it wasn’t the ED’s that caused the races to unite. But rather it was the wishes of the new devs to do so because of a new marketing approach, and the ED’s were the mechanic through which they accomplished that.

I find this so amusing really. You basically state “Oh, it’d be fine if this happens because of this reason!” and then decry GW2, despite that reason being the cause of it.

You seem to claim to accept things, but then declare them as wrong because the devs wanted the story to go that way.

Guess what, that’s true for EVERYTHING. I suppose you hate all changes across every universe because that’s how things go for EVERY SINGLE SETTING. The writer wants the story to go into a certain direction, and thus introduces or explains elements of the story to make it so.

Such as Gollum in LOTR was originally a friendly being as I’ve read, but to make later scenes work, he was turned into his present form.

Would You Fight To Reclaim Ascalon?

in Human

Posted by: Sartharina.3542

Sartharina.3542

Also… I keep seeing Obsidian saying that it’s wrong for Guild Wars 2 to have a different core narrative than the first game, which I think is absolute nonsense. It’s perfectly acceptable for a creative work to have one installment of the series present one core narrative (Actually, in the case of a game, core experience. Games are not books. Games are not Movies), then have a future work in the same series provide a deconstruction, reconstruction, or even simply different take on the themes and core experiences of an original work. Guild Wars 2 is a standalone product, not beholden to the first game except in that it shares a world and timeline. It hasn’t retconned anything, but instead fleshed out and emphasized past events to change the narrative, much as real-world history classes change the emphasis on events that happened to paint an overarching, thematic narrative to give direction to human progress/regress. (I just had to sit through a class of American History studying the rise of the nation in the context of spreading, defining or restricting freedom)

No. Absolutely no. It is just like a movie or book. Just because the story is used for a game doesn’t mean it doesn’t adhere to the implications those forms of art entail. The story would exist(albeit in relative obscurity) with or without the actual game being around. And it isn’t like some modern history class where we can discover different points of view on things based on new evidence. It isn’t like that because 1) it’s not real, it’s made up, and 2) there is only one point of view for it: the author’s point of view. Taking parts of it and changing them to suit your needs is the equivalent of taking a Beatles song, changing some of the words and making it a country song, and then having the gall to say this is a legit extension of their work. It’s not just wrong, it’s insulting.

Books and movies aren’t confined to your obscure definition of continuity, either. It’s very common for authors and filmmakers and others to, when making a sequel to a work, completely re-evaluate the core narrative and change it to be something else, while still using the same world.

As for your songwriting comparison – Pretty much every songmaker throughout history, from Mozart and before to Blackwell and beyond, strongly disagree with your opinion.

As for Ascalon being “Charr Homeland” – it was as much their homeland as the place they were pushed back to before the First Guild Wars, and saying otherwise is like… you’re saying Ireland is your homeland, right? It’s like saying that Northern Ireland isn’t part of your homeland because it’s Great Britain. There are charr clans capable of drawing their histories back to wandering the entire plains running from the Blazing Steppes to the foothills of the Shiverpeak Mountains all as one land, before the humans came along, cut that land to pieces, and called part of it “Ascalon”.

And by your own definition of Homeland, Ascalon is not a human homeland, either. Settlements are no more permanent or meaningful than anywhere else a family is raised for generations. Humans therefore are stuck referring to only where the gods first plopped them down as their homeland.

(edited by Sartharina.3542)

Would You Fight To Reclaim Ascalon?

in Human

Posted by: Nicholas S Lin.6187

Nicholas S Lin.6187

It seems that most forum contributors are anti-human and pro-charr. Since many have argued that ultimately the humans of Tyria should be greatful for what they still have as per the events of the current game – GW2.

Since by natural law these said contributors claim that humanity is not entitled to any land they hold or had held in Tyria since they were invaders/outsiders.

I doubt that this is the intention of the writers or the intention of the IP owners. However they have effectively allowed said contributors to claim that all non-humans are entitled to claim all lands that humanity once held just for the sake of telling a better story.

In its re-writing of Tyrian history Arenanet have started the process of writing humanity out of Tyria in time for GW3 unless major re-balancing occurs.

Would You Fight To Reclaim Ascalon?

in Human

Posted by: Obsidian.1328

Obsidian.1328

Yeah, that thinking was before giant dragons appeared that made all those petty issues suddenly look like a bad idea to hold onto blindly.

See Charr willing to set aside hatred of Ebonhawke humans because they CLEARLY see how big a threat the dragons are with the brand.

…which is exactly why they brought the ED’s on board. Can you not see that?

In other words, it wasn’t the ED’s that caused the races to unite. But rather it was the wishes of the new devs to do so because of a new marketing approach, and the ED’s were the mechanic through which they accomplished that.

I find this so amusing really. You basically state “Oh, it’d be fine if this happens because of this reason!” and then decry GW2, despite that reason being the cause of it.

You seem to claim to accept things, but then declare them as wrong because the devs wanted the story to go that way.

Guess what, that’s true for EVERYTHING. I suppose you hate all changes across every universe because that’s how things go for EVERY SINGLE SETTING. The writer wants the story to go into a certain direction, and thus introduces or explains elements of the story to make it so.

Such as Gollum in LOTR was originally a friendly being as I’ve read, but to make later scenes work, he was turned into his present form.

No, just changes that are obviously ridiculous and asinine.

Btw, your Gollum thing is backwards. Tolkien wrote out his meager backstory as a humble nitwit to go along with the whole “the ring corrupts everyone” thing. The concept of Gollum, as a part of The Hobbit, came before Smeagol.

Obsidian Sky – SoR
I troll because I care

(edited by Obsidian.1328)

Would You Fight To Reclaim Ascalon?

in Human

Posted by: Obsidian.1328

Obsidian.1328

Books and movies aren’t confined to your obscure definition of continuity, either. It’s very common for authors and filmmakers and others to, when making a sequel to a work, completely re-evaluate the core narrative and change it to be something else, while still using the same world.

They aren’t confined to yours either. You’re right it’s common to do so, but each change should be judged on how it reflects the original work.

As for your songwriting comparison – Pretty much every songmaker throughout history, from Mozart and before to Blackwell and beyond, strongly disagree with your opinion.

Not really, that’s why their called cover songs. “I Shot the Sheriff” is a Marley song. Clapton covered it, but that doesn’t make it his. It’s his version of it, just like GW2 is ANet’s version of GW1. They essential aren’t the same thing.

As for Ascalon being “Charr Homeland” – it was as much their homeland as the place they were pushed back to before the First Guild Wars, and saying otherwise is like… you’re saying Ireland is your homeland, right? It’s like saying that Northern Ireland isn’t part of your homeland because it’s Great Britain. There are charr clans capable of drawing their histories back to wandering the entire plains running from the Blazing Steppes to the foothills of the Shiverpeak Mountains all as one land, before the humans came along, cut that land to pieces, and called part of it “Ascalon”.

You have no way of knowing any of that.

And by your own definition of Homeland, Ascalon is not a human homeland, either. Settlements are no more permanent or meaningful than anywhere else a family is raised for generations. Humans therefore are stuck referring to only where the gods first plopped them down as their homeland.

You’re right, it’s not humanity’s homeland. It’s only Ascalonian’s homeland. I’m not arguing about humanity.

Obsidian Sky – SoR
I troll because I care

(edited by Obsidian.1328)

Would You Fight To Reclaim Ascalon?

in Human

Posted by: Sartharina.3542

Sartharina.3542

Guild Wars 2 is an original work set in the same universe as the original Guild Wars. The core experience and themes are designed and allowed to be different. Otherwise, it would just be another expansion for Guild Wars.

It seems that most forum contributors are anti-human and pro-charr. Since many have argued that ultimately the humans of Tyria should be greatful for what they still have as per the events of the current game – GW2.

Since by natural law these said contributors claim that humanity is not entitled to any land they hold or had held in Tyria since they were invaders/outsiders.

I doubt that this is the intention of the writers or the intention of the IP owners. However they have effectively allowed said contributors to claim that all non-humans are entitled to claim all lands that humanity once held just for the sake of telling a better story.

In its re-writing of Tyrian history Arenanet have started the process of writing humanity out of Tyria in time for GW3 unless major re-balancing occurs.

Not Anti-human and Pro-Charr. Just not Pro-Human at the Expense of Everything Else. Humans have to fight for what they want to have, just like everyone else. Even then, they’re still one of the strongest and most populous races in Tyria. They’ve just been pared back to everyone else’s level for now. There’s no “entitling” at all. If anything, the entitlement is for humans believing they are owed and entitled to land they have proven incapable of holding. Your own argument is that non-humans are not entitled to claim any land they hold or have held in Tyria because they are not humans.

Would You Fight To Reclaim Ascalon?

in Human

Posted by: bullyrook.2165

bullyrook.2165

Guild Wars 2 is an original work set in the same universe as the original Guild Wars. The core experience and themes are designed and allowed to be different. Otherwise, it would just be another expansion for Guild Wars.

It seems that most forum contributors are anti-human and pro-charr. Since many have argued that ultimately the humans of Tyria should be greatful for what they still have as per the events of the current game – GW2.

Since by natural law these said contributors claim that humanity is not entitled to any land they hold or had held in Tyria since they were invaders/outsiders.

I doubt that this is the intention of the writers or the intention of the IP owners. However they have effectively allowed said contributors to claim that all non-humans are entitled to claim all lands that humanity once held just for the sake of telling a better story.

In its re-writing of Tyrian history Arenanet have started the process of writing humanity out of Tyria in time for GW3 unless major re-balancing occurs.

Not Anti-human and Pro-Charr. Just not Pro-Human at the Expense of Everything Else. Humans have to fight for what they want to have, just like everyone else. Even then, they’re still one of the strongest and most populous races in Tyria. They’ve just been pared back to everyone else’s level for now. There’s no “entitling” at all. If anything, the entitlement is for humans believing they are owed and entitled to land they have proven incapable of holding. Your own argument is that non-humans are not entitled to claim any land they hold or have held in Tyria because they are not humans.

Careful, that sounded dangerously close to “might makes right”

Would You Fight To Reclaim Ascalon?

in Human

Posted by: Kalavier.1097

Kalavier.1097

It seems that most forum contributors are anti-human and pro-charr. Since many have argued that ultimately the humans of Tyria should be greatful for what they still have as per the events of the current game – GW2.

I doubt that this is the intention of the writers or the intention of the IP owners. However they have effectively allowed said contributors to claim that all non-humans are entitled to claim all lands that humanity once held just for the sake of telling a better story.

In its re-writing of Tyrian history Arenanet have started the process of writing humanity out of Tyria in time for GW3 unless major re-balancing occurs.

Nope, my main character is human, and the one I’ve the most backstory made for. I simply don’t think the story should be super pro human or “Humans better then everybody else!”

There is no re-writing of Tyrian history. GW1 explicitly said humans took other races lands. In the case of Ascalon, it came back to bit them hard. Ascalon was also shown to be the most stubborn of the nations, refusing ANY outside help even though they needed it badly. So if you wanted to look at it a certain way, even GW1 was showing that refusing aid and friends in a time of need is bad.

Not really, that’s why their called cover songs. “I Shot the Sheriff” is a Marley song. Clapton covered it, but that doesn’t make it his. It’s his version of it, just like GW2 is ANet’s version of GW1. They essential aren’t the same thing.

Would be true if GW2 was covering the same events as GW1, but it isn’t. Entirely different timeframe.

Anet owns both games, so the comparison still doesn’t stand. They made GW1, they made GW2.

Would You Fight To Reclaim Ascalon?

in Human

Posted by: Sartharina.3542

Sartharina.3542

Careful, that sounded dangerously close to “might makes right”

Well, that’s ultimately the truth of the matter. It gets interesting, though, when widespread adoption of moral codes and ethics create a “Right makes Might” effect, to the point that “Right Makes Might Makes Right.”

Would You Fight To Reclaim Ascalon?

in Human

Posted by: Obsidian.1328

Obsidian.1328

The core experience and themes are designed and allowed to be different. Otherwise, it would just be another expansion for Guild Wars.

Not necessarily. Adding a “2” does not mean different.

Obsidian Sky – SoR
I troll because I care

Would You Fight To Reclaim Ascalon?

in Human

Posted by: Obsidian.1328

Obsidian.1328

Anet owns both games, so the comparison still doesn’t stand. They made GW1, they made GW2.

I would argue they did not.

Obsidian Sky – SoR
I troll because I care

Would You Fight To Reclaim Ascalon?

in Human

Posted by: Kalavier.1097

Kalavier.1097

Anet owns both games, so the comparison still doesn’t stand. They made GW1, they made GW2.

I would argue they did not.

Huh, funny.

Because I see Anet logo on Guild Wars factions, proph, and nightfall (physical box).

I see anet logo on GW2.

So on what basis are you arguing they did not make both games?

Would You Fight To Reclaim Ascalon?

in Human

Posted by: Obsidian.1328

Obsidian.1328

Anet owns both games, so the comparison still doesn’t stand. They made GW1, they made GW2.

I would argue they did not.

Huh, funny.

Because I see Anet logo on Guild Wars factions, proph, and nightfall (physical box).

I see anet logo on GW2.

So on what basis are you arguing they did not make both games?

Do you see the same writers on all of those?

Obsidian Sky – SoR
I troll because I care

Would You Fight To Reclaim Ascalon?

in Human

Posted by: Kalavier.1097

Kalavier.1097

Anet owns both games, so the comparison still doesn’t stand. They made GW1, they made GW2.

I would argue they did not.

Huh, funny.

Because I see Anet logo on Guild Wars factions, proph, and nightfall (physical box).

I see anet logo on GW2.

So on what basis are you arguing they did not make both games?

Do you see the same writers on all of those?

Actually, of the GW1 writers, all but two are in the credits of GW2 (I just checked).

Would You Fight To Reclaim Ascalon?

in Human

Posted by: Obsidian.1328

Obsidian.1328

Anet owns both games, so the comparison still doesn’t stand. They made GW1, they made GW2.

I would argue they did not.

Huh, funny.

Because I see Anet logo on Guild Wars factions, proph, and nightfall (physical box).

I see anet logo on GW2.

So on what basis are you arguing they did not make both games?

Do you see the same writers on all of those?

Actually, of the GW1 writers, all but two are in the credits of GW2 (I just checked).

That’s interesting, considering one guy wrote all of the Proph and most of the Factions storyline. Interesting as well that with Nightfall we start to see the game take a drastically different direction. Could it be that Nightfall was the transitional period between development teams? Say it ain’t so, Joe! Have I said this many times before? Perhaps.

Btw, I’ve spent time researching those wiki dev lists. If you cross reference them with other sources, some of them don’t correlate. Wierdsies I tell ya.

Obsidian Sky – SoR
I troll because I care

Would You Fight To Reclaim Ascalon?

in Human

Posted by: Sartharina.3542

Sartharina.3542

Furthermore, when it comes to video games and other committee-designed artistic endeavours, it’s the creator (In this case ArenaNet), not individual writers, who hold authorial fiat and authority. Guild Wars was written for/by ArenaNet. Rights/privileges/respects to the original material are held by ArenaNet, not the individual authors, who were commissioned to write the story on behalf of ArenaNet. Any changes ArenaNet wants to make, it’s allowed to make, for any reason it wants. Furthermore, ArenaNet is the creator, not merely a publisher, meaning it has full copyright privileges without the ugly abuses and snafus caused when a publisher withholds/revokes/changes an IP without consent from the creator.

If ArenaNet was a studio headed by a single designer (And thus dissolved if he chooses to leave) like studios such as Doublefine Entertainment or any of Peter Molyneux’s past studios, then it would be a different situation. But it’s not.

Would You Fight To Reclaim Ascalon?

in Human

Posted by: FlamingFoxx.1305

FlamingFoxx.1305

I do not understand how this argument is still going on xD.

Would You Fight To Reclaim Ascalon?

in Human

Posted by: Obsidian.1328

Obsidian.1328

Furthermore, when it comes to video games and other committee-designed artistic endeavours, it’s the creator (In this case ArenaNet), not individual writers, who hold authorial fiat and authority. Guild Wars was written for/by ArenaNet. Rights/privileges/respects to the original material are held by ArenaNet, not the individual authors, who were commissioned to write the story on behalf of ArenaNet. Any changes ArenaNet wants to make, it’s allowed to make, for any reason it wants. Furthermore, ArenaNet is the creator, not merely a publisher, meaning it has full copyright privileges without the ugly abuses and snafus caused when a publisher withholds/revokes/changes an IP without consent from the creator.

If ArenaNet was a studio headed by a single designer (And thus dissolved if he chooses to leave) like studios such as Doublefine Entertainment or any of Peter Molyneux’s past studios, then it would be a different situation. But it’s not.

You would be a great lawyer or politician.

Obsidian Sky – SoR
I troll because I care

Would You Fight To Reclaim Ascalon?

in Human

Posted by: Nicholas S Lin.6187

Nicholas S Lin.6187

Not Anti-human and Pro-Charr. Just not Pro-Human at the Expense of Everything Else. Humans have to fight for what they want to have, just like everyone else. Even then, they’re still one of the strongest and most populous races in Tyria. They’ve just been pared back to everyone else’s level for now. There’s no “entitling” at all. If anything, the entitlement is for humans believing they are owed and entitled to land they have proven incapable of holding. Your own argument is that non-humans are not entitled to claim any land they hold or have held in Tyria because they are not humans.

My views have never been Pro-Human at the expense of other race if the passing of the last 200 years between the events of the two games was reasonably balanced and fair. For the most part it has been, with one major exception. Human vs. Charr.

In the case between the two it is the humans that have lost all the ground, lost all the land. The only time the Charr suffered a major lost, humanity lost a comparable amount in exchange (Note: the blame for the Foefire event depends on which race you side with).

This demonstrates that your point of is without merit and has no basis in lore.

Would You Fight To Reclaim Ascalon?

in Human

Posted by: Kalavier.1097

Kalavier.1097

Not Anti-human and Pro-Charr. Just not Pro-Human at the Expense of Everything Else. Humans have to fight for what they want to have, just like everyone else. Even then, they’re still one of the strongest and most populous races in Tyria. They’ve just been pared back to everyone else’s level for now. There’s no “entitling” at all. If anything, the entitlement is for humans believing they are owed and entitled to land they have proven incapable of holding. Your own argument is that non-humans are not entitled to claim any land they hold or have held in Tyria because they are not humans.

My views have never been Pro-Human at the expense of other race if the passing of the last 200 years between the events of the two games was reasonably balanced and fair. For the most part it has been, with one major exception. Human vs. Charr.

In the case between the two it is the humans that have lost all the ground, lost all the land. The only time the Charr suffered a major lost, humanity lost a comparable amount in exchange (Note: the blame for the Foefire event depends on which race you side with).

This demonstrates that your point of is without merit and has no basis in lore.

You have been spouting a completely unbased assumption that Humanity would magically get the dwarven tech secrets and become the major engineering powerhouse while the Charr have NOTHING. Note, there is NOTHING that suggests the heroes went past their respective campaigns. Gwen went back to being an offier of the Vanguard, Pyre to his people same with Vekk and maybe Jora. Odgen likely went south to help guide the remaining dwarves who were not turned to stone.

Totally unbiased instead of being pro-human.

Ascalon was not going to survive. The Charr could’ve sat back and let them starve to death once food ran out (and the food was not that easy to find post searing, or water for that matter). Kryta was rebuilding.

Hell, the amount of healing Ascalon has had is the surprising part, not the fact Ascalon died. Your points have not received backing that convinces me (or apparently others) that it is lore supported.

Would You Fight To Reclaim Ascalon?

in Human

Posted by: Sartharina.3542

Sartharina.3542

Not Anti-human and Pro-Charr. Just not Pro-Human at the Expense of Everything Else. Humans have to fight for what they want to have, just like everyone else. Even then, they’re still one of the strongest and most populous races in Tyria. They’ve just been pared back to everyone else’s level for now. There’s no “entitling” at all. If anything, the entitlement is for humans believing they are owed and entitled to land they have proven incapable of holding. Your own argument is that non-humans are not entitled to claim any land they hold or have held in Tyria because they are not humans.

My views have never been Pro-Human at the expense of other race if the passing of the last 200 years between the events of the two games was reasonably balanced and fair. For the most part it has been, with one major exception. Human vs. Charr.

In the case between the two it is the humans that have lost all the ground, lost all the land. The only time the Charr suffered a major lost, humanity lost a comparable amount in exchange (Note: the blame for the Foefire event depends on which race you side with).

This demonstrates that your point of is without merit and has no basis in lore.

That’s because Humans had the most to lose, and Charr had the most to gain. Yes, the history between them is in Charr’s favor – but that’s because Humans were sitting at 99% influence, and Charr were at 1%, The humans needed to take a dive in power in order to enter an equilibrium with the other races, and Charr were the only ones they were directly antagonistic to.

Humans took a dive, going from dominating 80% of the world down to ~32% of the world. The Asura and Sylvari managed to carve out ~10% of the world each for themselves. With the absolute destruction of the dwarves (Humans can’t kitten about their losses), the Norn managed to expand to about 15% influence over the world, and drove the dredge down to 5%.

The Charr, on the other hand, started with 2% of the world, and with the help of the Flame Legion jumped to 18% of the world. Humans are still stronger than they are, despite the near total loss of Ascalon. Even then, it’s not complete, because humans have enough influence in Ascalon that the remaining Separatists are just as big a threat to Charr sovereignty as the Ghosts and Branded, Ebonhawke and its surrounding lands are still human territory, and the Ebon Vanguard are significant contributors holding the line against the brand.

The Charr now have 90% (Discounting uninhabitable areas caused by excessive ghost infestations, Separatist strongholds, Dredge fortress-mines, and draconic corruption) of Ascalon. The humans still have Kryta, Elona, Cantha, and 10% of Ascalon (Discounting uninhabitable areas caused by centaurs, pirates, plague, dredge, grawl, and draconic corruption).

The only reason the humans have “Lost all the ground, lost all the land” is because they were the only ones with ground and land to lose!

Would You Fight To Reclaim Ascalon?

in Human

Posted by: Nicholas S Lin.6187

Nicholas S Lin.6187

Not Anti-human and Pro-Charr. Just not Pro-Human at the Expense of Everything Else. Humans have to fight for what they want to have, just like everyone else. Even then, they’re still one of the strongest and most populous races in Tyria. They’ve just been pared back to everyone else’s level for now. There’s no “entitling” at all. If anything, the entitlement is for humans believing they are owed and entitled to land they have proven incapable of holding. Your own argument is that non-humans are not entitled to claim any land they hold or have held in Tyria because they are not humans.

My views have never been Pro-Human at the expense of other race if the passing of the last 200 years between the events of the two games was reasonably balanced and fair. For the most part it has been, with one major exception. Human vs. Charr.

In the case between the two it is the humans that have lost all the ground, lost all the land. The only time the Charr suffered a major lost, humanity lost a comparable amount in exchange (Note: the blame for the Foefire event depends on which race you side with).

This demonstrates that your point of is without merit and has no basis in lore.

You have been spouting a completely unbased assumption that Humanity would magically get the dwarven tech secrets and become the major engineering powerhouse while the Charr have NOTHING. Note, there is NOTHING that suggests the heroes went past their respective campaigns. Gwen went back to being an offier of the Vanguard, Pyre to his people same with Vekk and maybe Jora. Odgen likely went south to help guide the remaining dwarves who were not turned to stone.

Totally unbiased instead of being pro-human.

Ascalon was not going to survive. The Charr could’ve sat back and let them starve to death once food ran out (and the food was not that easy to find post searing, or water for that matter). Kryta was rebuilding.

Hell, the amount of healing Ascalon has had is the surprising part, not the fact Ascalon died. Your points have not received backing that convinces me (or apparently others) that it is lore supported.

I believe my last few posts in this Arc is entirely supported by available Lore – which is particularly then bye the way. Since the Arenanet goal was and still is to white-wash GW(1) as it regards to Human Ascalon.

Gwen was never a standard trained soldier in the Ascalonian Army. Her life experience as a captive of the Charr as a teen and her service record as a resistance fighter serving with the Ebon Vanguard and then going though epic quests through Ascalon, Cantha, Elona and back – had taught her that the war will go well after her human life span.

And despite or even because of her happiness she found with Keiran Thackeray, she like any soldier with similar life experiences and living in times like hers knew that plans needed to be set in motion, for the years to come.

But all this was ignored by Arenanet. So was Vekk and Ogden for the most part. Both as I’ve said before would have agreed with their friend’s Gwen’s world view. That the threat that Great Destroyer and Abbadon posed are not isolated one off occurances.
That if Tyria is to survive it needed every advantage.

This advantage includes the Deldrimor Legacy. And she has able assistance in the form of her friends (Vekk, Ogden) and Kryta. This again was ignored too. Seriously how could Vekk and Ogden not see the value in the Deldrimor Legacy????

Did Arenanet forget that our player-character met the pair as they were about to deploy an explosive device to kill an Asura Gate? And did they also forget that they were part of the team that lived and fought through the events of “Eye of the North”????

And that means after going though it all, like their comrade-in-arms Gwen and Keiran, they too would see the value of insureing their personal legacies.

Which would necessarily mean passing on the Deldrimor Legacy to the next generation. And at the time that meant Salma’s Kryta (Since the Asurans have their own, the Deldrimor Dwarves were now stone based – undead, and the Norn still held the Shiverpeaks with their Totem Animal spirits and the fiercesome power of their were-forms). So to say that my view points are not firmly support by the Lore? Really?

Would You Fight To Reclaim Ascalon?

in Human

Posted by: Zaxares.5419

Zaxares.5419

I’ve missed a couple of pages. What exactly is this “Deldrimor Legacy” you’re talking about?

Would You Fight To Reclaim Ascalon?

in Human

Posted by: Nicholas S Lin.6187

Nicholas S Lin.6187

That’s because Humans had the most to lose, and Charr had the most to gain. Yes, the history between them is in Charr’s favor – but that’s because Humans were sitting at 99% influence, and Charr were at 1%, The humans needed to take a dive in power in order to enter an equilibrium with the other races, and Charr were the only ones they were directly antagonistic to.

Humans took a dive, going from dominating 80% of the world down to ~32% of the world. The Asura and Sylvari managed to carve out ~10% of the world each for themselves. With the absolute destruction of the dwarves (Humans can’t kitten about their losses), the Norn managed to expand to about 15% influence over the world, and drove the dredge down to 5%.

The Charr, on the other hand, started with 2% of the world, and with the help of the Flame Legion jumped to 18% of the world. Humans are still stronger than they are, despite the near total loss of Ascalon. Even then, it’s not complete, because humans have enough influence in Ascalon that the remaining Separatists are just as big a threat to Charr sovereignty as the Ghosts and Branded, Ebonhawke and its surrounding lands are still human territory, and the Ebon Vanguard are significant contributors holding the line against the brand.

The Charr now have 90% (Discounting uninhabitable areas caused by excessive ghost infestations, Separatist strongholds, Dredge fortress-mines, and draconic corruption) of Ascalon. The humans still have Kryta, Elona, Cantha, and 10% of Ascalon (Discounting uninhabitable areas caused by centaurs, pirates, plague, dredge, grawl, and draconic corruption).

The only reason the humans have “Lost all the ground, lost all the land” is because they were the only ones with ground and land to lose!

Humans currently have an effective power of around 32% as at the start of the events of GW2? seriously? You must be joking. I mean come on!

What ever the actual percentage was. It’s clear that they started with much less than that. Personally I would estimate effective military capability in comparison to the other four races at present to be much, much less that 20%.

Look at the awesome-ness of the Charr High Legions and the Technological and Scientific brilliance of the Asura. The is no way that the Humans of GW2 as they are now are remotely comparable.

Would You Fight To Reclaim Ascalon?

in Human

Posted by: Nicholas S Lin.6187

Nicholas S Lin.6187

I’ve missed a couple of pages. What exactly is this “Deldrimor Legacy” you’re talking about?

Its a phase that I’ve made-up to group the collective remains of the Deldrimor Dwarves civilisation – its building, equipment and all they’ve left behind as a result of them becoming undead as the result of " The Great Dwarf" spell.

Would You Fight To Reclaim Ascalon?

in Human

Posted by: Kalavier.1097

Kalavier.1097

I believe my last few posts in this Arc is entirely supported by available Lore – which is particularly then bye the way. Since the Arenanet goal was and still is to white-wash GW(1) as it regards to Human Ascalon.

What do you mean by white-wash?

Gwen was never a standard trained soldier in the Ascalonian Army. Her life experience as a captive of the Charr as a teen and her service record as a resistance fighter serving with the Ebon Vanguard and then going though epic quests through Ascalon, Cantha, Elona and back – had taught her that the war will go well after her human life span.
And despite or even because of her happiness she found with Keiran Thackeray, she like any soldier with similar life experiences and living in times like hers knew that plans needed to be set in motion, for the years to come.

Gwen never adventured in Cantha or Elona. Her literally travels have been “Ascalon to north and Ebon Vanguard.” “Stayed with Ebon Vanguard” “EOTN.” “Going to north shiverpeaks to find Thackeray” She never was involved in the events of Factions or Nightfall, or even Proph outside of pre-searing. Her involvement in War in Kryta may have happened some, but winds of change? unlikely as she was captain at that time.

But all this was ignored by Arenanet. So was Vekk and Ogden for the most part. Both as I’ve said before would have agreed with their friend’s Gwen’s world view. That the threat that Great Destroyer and Abbadon posed are not isolated one off occurances.
That if Tyria is to survive it needed every advantage.

This advantage includes the Deldrimor Legacy. And she has able assistance in the form of her friends (Vekk, Ogden) and Kryta. This again was ignored too. Seriously how could Vekk and Ogden not see the value in the Deldrimor Legacy????

Who says they would agreed with her on things? Neither was involved in nightfall, prophecies, or factions. Vekk and Ogden both are likely to have returned to their people post EOTN (Ogden to guide the remaining dwarves and keep their nation intact as people go to stone slowly) The Deldrimor legacy is what? Gunpowder? Their smithing methods? Both of which Ogden wouldn’t know?

Did Arenanet forget that our player-character met the pair as they were about to deploy an explosive device to kill an Asura Gate? And did they also forget that they were part of the team that lived and fought through the events of “Eye of the North”????

No, it’s called they returned to their lives (in a way) among their nations. Nothing suggests many, if ANY of the heroes stuck around with the player after meeting them and finishing that campaign. They had lives to go back to. Nightfall showed them doing that in the final cutscene.

And that means after going though it all, like their comrade-in-arms Gwen and Keiran, they too would see the value of insureing their personal legacies.

Which would necessarily mean passing on the Deldrimor Legacy to the next generation. And at the time that meant Salma’s Kryta (Since the Asurans have their own, the Deldrimor Dwarves were now stone based – undead, and the Norn still held the Shiverpeaks with their Totem Animal spirits and the fiercesome power of their were-forms). So to say that my view points are not firmly support by the Lore? Really?

So they’d put Gwen, a human they spent little time with (comparatively) over their people? You are saying Ogden wouldn’t head to the Deldrimor towns (and the dwarves which did not go through the ritual) and help explain/guide them as they slowly went over?

Vekk would stick around with the humans over returning to the Asura and helping them get the settlements running smoothly?

Your view points are HARDLY supported by the Lore. You are saying people were involved in events they explicitly where not involved in. Events they most likely never knew happened until the player (or henchmen involved), told them if they did at all.

edit: DWARVES DID NOT BECOME UNDEAD. They became STONE. They did NOT DIE and reanimate.

Would You Fight To Reclaim Ascalon?

in Human

Posted by: Zaxares.5419

Zaxares.5419

Ah, I see. Well, in that case I don’t see how it would have really made a difference to the cause of the Ebon Vanguard and Ebonhawke.

Most Dwarven buildings and cities were in the Shiverpeaks (or under it), too geographically distant to be of any use to the Ascalonians.

Dwarven weapons and equipment are reputed to be of high quality (especially given the Ascended tier status of Deldrimor Steel in GW2), but there’s nothing to say that the armor and weapons used by the Ebon Vanguard was any worse than what the Deldrimor dwarves were using.

Unique Dwarven magic appears to have been specifically tailored for Dwarves (the prime example being the Ritual of the Great Dwarf), so it wouldn’t have helped the humans in the slightest.

The only unique thing Dwarves had that could have helped the Ascalonians is their blasting powder, and obviously the Charr beat the humans to it in developing technology to utilise it. Why? Who can really say, since none of us were there? My guess is that either Gwen and Keiran didn’t have the manpower to spare in developing R&D to use black powder (by all accounts, they were pressed pretty hard in Ebonhawke and probably needed every available body to man the walls), or perhaps Gwen (not so much Keiran, since he seems more far-sighted) felt that humans had no need to resort to any non-human technology to win. This was a human war, and they’d win it with human magic and human resilience. (Failure to do so might have counted as failure in Gwen’s eyes; it would have been proof that humans could not stand on their own, and therefore something she would not accept.)

Would You Fight To Reclaim Ascalon?

in Human

Posted by: Kalavier.1097

Kalavier.1097

Also that fact I recall the blasting powder/black powder was a FAMILY SECRET in EOTN.

Not some wide spread “all dwarves know it” May be wrong though.

edit: Also the Dwarven smithing took 250 years or so to be rediscovered by a Norn. I doubt it’s easy if that happened.

(edited by Kalavier.1097)

Would You Fight To Reclaim Ascalon?

in Human

Posted by: Zaxares.5419

Zaxares.5419

You’re talking about Budger Blackpowder, right? It might well have been a family secret, although the first time we ran into black powder kegs was back in Prophecies, way before we ran into Blackpowder, and it seemed that those kegs were plentiful. (Even the Stone Summit had access to them, as I recall.) Maybe the Blackpowder family had exclusive rights to making it, or maybe not since they seemed to be in a fair number of Shiverpeaks missions in Prophecies. I don’t know either way.

Would You Fight To Reclaim Ascalon?

in Human

Posted by: Kalavier.1097

Kalavier.1097

Oh, the family secret was the location of the hammer of the great dwarf.

Still, not like explosives were that rare. Istan had their burning oil/explosives.

Would You Fight To Reclaim Ascalon?

in Human

Posted by: Sartharina.3542

Sartharina.3542

Look at the awesome-ness of the Charr High Legions and the Technological and Scientific brilliance of the Asura. The is no way that the Humans of GW2 as they are now are remotely comparable.

The charr High Legions are caught up trying to recover from a stalemate with Ebonhawke, and are perpetually bogged down in a war with the Ghosts of Ascalon. Sure, there are a lot of jokes about how ‘simple’ the ghosts have been contained and the Charr are using them as target practice – but it’s clear in the field that they’re suffering heavy losses as ghosts destroy entire warbands… and the ghosts are back every few weeks if not every day. On top of that, they’ve got the flame legion rebellion continuing, and the Separatists wherever the ghosts aren’t. And all three legions suffer serious trauma and losses in the Brand.

The Ebon Vanguard alone has a military presence on par with any of the three Charr Legions, at least in terms of area coverage. The humans also have the Seraph, that, despite heavy losses, are still holding strong and defending against the numerous Centaur tribes assaulting Kryta, in addition to outposts in the Shiverpeaks and . The centaur attacks are also much more manageable than the Ghost problem facing the Charr. And, unlike the ghosts, every centaur killed stays dead.

As for Asura Scientific “Brilliance” – The asura have just escaped destruction and been driven from their homeland, and are just getting started on devising a way to rule a new world they feel entitled to because of their superior intellect. However, that intellect works against them just as often as it works for them, and the Inquest are one of the most devastating, tenacious, and far-reaching threats facing Tyria.

Would You Fight To Reclaim Ascalon?

in Human

Posted by: Obsidian.1328

Obsidian.1328

…and the Inquest are one of the most devastating, tenacious, and far-reaching threats facing Tyria.

Huh?

You mean those guys in Metrica trying get peeps to join them? They seemed like a mix between a bad Army recruiter and a loan shark. They are supposed to be threatening?

Obsidian Sky – SoR
I troll because I care

Would You Fight To Reclaim Ascalon?

in Human

Posted by: Sartharina.3542

Sartharina.3542

…and the Inquest are one of the most devastating, tenacious, and far-reaching threats facing Tyria.

Huh?

You mean those guys in Metrica trying get peeps to join them? They seemed like a mix between a bad Army recruiter and a loan shark. They are supposed to be threatening?

They tend to be hit and miss. Then again, my experience with the Inquest is primarily in Bloodtide Coast and Blazeridge Steppes.

Would You Fight To Reclaim Ascalon?

in Human

Posted by: Kalavier.1097

Kalavier.1097

…and the Inquest are one of the most devastating, tenacious, and far-reaching threats facing Tyria.

Huh?

You mean those guys in Metrica trying get peeps to join them? They seemed like a mix between a bad Army recruiter and a loan shark. They are supposed to be threatening?

The ones around Rata sum are the tame ones.

Go to Crucible of Eternity. That’s what the upper levels of Inquest can do, experiments with dragon minions and worse.

Would You Fight To Reclaim Ascalon?

in Human

Posted by: Caedus.9610

Caedus.9610

Why would anybody want to reclain Ascalon?What’s in there? A bunch of human tombs and ruins ,arid plains and the centre of Charr society.

What benefit whatsoever would anyone have to risk open war with the now diplomatic and friendly charr just to claim some wasteland?

Anyone who goes to war with the charr would lose far more than he would gain if he takes over Ascalon. Only some kitten would do that.And temporarily at that. Even if by some miracle the charr are defeated in a pitched battle and they retreat,later the cost of keeping Ascalon while under charr harassment and skirmishes would ruin any nation/faction/race or w/e.

(edited by Caedus.9610)

Would You Fight To Reclaim Ascalon?

in Human

Posted by: lordpathos.1425

lordpathos.1425

Because this topic has lasted a long time but I do not have the will nor the patience to read through the entire thing, I’m just going to add my two cents and assume it hasn’t been previously mentioned:

Ascalon was not originally Human lands. It was Charr territory to begin with. The Charr technically took it back with the Searing. The Foefire then gave it back to the Charr because the Humans, for all intents and purposes, were finally defeated. Yes you can make the argument that they just rematerialize indefinitely, but they no longer have a control over the physical world. No more forts, no more keeps, no more Great Wall.

Would You Fight To Reclaim Ascalon?

in Human

Posted by: Lord Trejgon.2809

Lord Trejgon.2809

The humans still have Kryta, Elona, Cantha, and 10% of Ascalon

I’m seriously amazed why no one have pointed that great mistake already:
at first human dos NOT have elona anymore – last news from Elona that folks in tyria received sounded “Palawa yoko conquered all elona” so at this moment if there are living humans in elona they are slaves of Yoko’s undead army.

and also we do know NOTHING about current situation at Cantha
it may be either still strong under human reign or destroyed by a dragon we haven’t met yet.

so the only fact from quoted statement we can tell for sure that human keep Kryta (arguable if all kryta – lets not forget how big part of it is under LA rule while LA used to be part of kryta and now its not actually “human” land) and ebonhawke in Ascalon,
question is how situation at cantha looks like.

PS. main reason that ANet gave why there is no communication with cantha and elona is Zhaitan that blocked the way with its minions but now zhaitan is actually quite dead so whats keeping anyone go just go check how the stuff is doing there?
not mentioning the fact that vigil have air fleet and we can be nearly sure that Palawa Yoko don’t have any viable anti air weaponry so some vigil troops should be able with ease to just run scouting check about hows those lands are doing………
(new potentiall allies etc. sending just one airship shoudn’t hurt too much current vigil warfare with dragons in tyria – and intel they could’ve gather would be just invaluable)

“-Shield is meant to be broken!”
“-and on this occasion I keep mine plate armors”
discussion about offensive/deffensive playstyles

Would You Fight To Reclaim Ascalon?

in Human

Posted by: Kalavier.1097

Kalavier.1097

LA doesn’t rule any lands. They just own the havens. Everything else is under the Krytan crown.

Also, “Whats keeping people from going to check?” Travel times, most likely a STRONG fear/dislike of any long voyages (Rata Sum ships to LA, and even that was considered dangerous with Zhaitan). Zhaitan’s bone ships may still be around, just in fewer numbers. The Deep Sea dragon minions, Karka, or other ocean threats may be closer to the surface. (We know for a fact the inquest captured a DSD minion, and it was large then the one hub room in the Crucible of Eternity surface section.

Would You Fight To Reclaim Ascalon?

in Human

Posted by: bullyrook.2165

bullyrook.2165

LA doesn’t rule any lands. They just own the havens. Everything else is under the Krytan crown.

Also, “Whats keeping people from going to check?” Travel times, most likely a STRONG fear/dislike of any long voyages (Rata Sum ships to LA, and even that was considered dangerous with Zhaitan). Zhaitan’s bone ships may still be around, just in fewer numbers. The Deep Sea dragon minions, Karka, or other ocean threats may be closer to the surface. (We know for a fact the inquest captured a DSD minion, and it was large then the one hub room in the Crucible of Eternity surface section.

In fairness, they do have airships now. Maybe just a quick jaunt over to Cantha and see how these fine fellows are fairing?

Would You Fight To Reclaim Ascalon?

in Human

Posted by: Kalavier.1097

Kalavier.1097

Travel time would still perhaps be an issue.

Also considering how many dragons were in the air at the final battle of Arah (a LOT,… probably 20 or more), those may cause issues for air travel as well straight past Orr.

I mean, YES, they could likely make the trip, but I’m unsure if you could find a crew for it. Romke was the last known captain to try to reach Cantha as far as I know… and look at what happened to him :P.

edit: Interesting fact I found while going through the wiki, on the Prince Edair page.

Commander Steamshroud viewed him as barely better than a mercenary. He notes that Black Citadel was forging a peace with Ebonhawke until Edair was assigned the captaincy there. After that, the southern fields ran with blood—both charr and human—just so a human boy could play with real soldiers instead of wooden ones. He goes on to speculate that those “victories on the field of battle” earned him his father’s approval…or made Beade believe that Edair would be able to defend Kryta.

I don’t have the book so I can’t check on it, but if that passage is true then the Charr and humans were naturally going toward a peace treaty (or working on one) even before the brand.

(edited by Kalavier.1097)

Would You Fight To Reclaim Ascalon?

in Human

Posted by: Lord Trejgon.2809

Lord Trejgon.2809

Travel time would still perhaps be an issue.

Also considering how many dragons were in the air at the final battle of Arah (a LOT,… probably 20 or more), those may cause issues for air travel as well straight past Orr.

I mean, YES, they could likely make the trip, but I’m unsure if you could find a crew for it. Romke was the last known captain to try to reach Cantha as far as I know… and look at what happened to him :P.

edit: Interesting fact I found while going through the wiki, on the Prince Edair page.

Commander Steamshroud viewed him as barely better than a mercenary. He notes that Black Citadel was forging a peace with Ebonhawke until Edair was assigned the captaincy there. After that, the southern fields ran with blood—both charr and human—just so a human boy could play with real soldiers instead of wooden ones. He goes on to speculate that those “victories on the field of battle” earned him his father’s approval…or made Beade believe that Edair would be able to defend Kryta.

I don’t have the book so I can’t check on it, but if that passage is true then the Charr and humans were naturally going toward a peace treaty (or working on one) even before the brand.

As far as I recall in Destiny’s Edge novel such treaty was already under diplomathic engineery and actually that book ends with creating dragonbrand…..

and LA control “some” land: for instance these land that city itself occupy!
and also I’d consider naming great amout of southern gendarran field as under ruleship of LA.

while traveling through such difference can be easily spotted -suddenly seraph posts dissapear and same with centaurs and instead of that you have great bunch of pirates everywhere and no seraph nearby – and if you’ll find there any “officials” they will be Lion Guardmens.

PS. about dragons in Arah story – haven’t we killed them there?
also death of zhaitan means that they will be with time only decreasing in numbers so after maybe a month of vigil airships’ hunt over the orr there would be actually no possible danger for airship south from LA so such expedition (quick check on Elona – no rush for all – Istan Island should be enough and check on Cantha – it would be better imo to not show up there at least: not show up that this airship have in crew any non-humans – everyone knows that canthans didn’t liked such before dragon rise – and back to Tyria – no real risk and much great intel for the pact about situation there)

“-Shield is meant to be broken!”
“-and on this occasion I keep mine plate armors”
discussion about offensive/deffensive playstyles

Would You Fight To Reclaim Ascalon?

in Human

Posted by: Kalavier.1097

Kalavier.1097

We killed three champions and Zhaitan. None of the other airships or dragons are shown to be taken out.

NOW, that doesn’t mean they didn’t lose more airships in the airal battle (Obviously at least 3 went down around the starting ground zone that you salvage, and the humble was lost) or that more dragons were killed.

BUT, the dragons are capable of downing airships, and if they fled after Zhaitan was defeated and took to the air again afterwards… I don’t see it being an easy cleanup.

Would You Fight To Reclaim Ascalon?

in Human

Posted by: Lord Trejgon.2809

Lord Trejgon.2809

We killed three champions and Zhaitan. None of the other airships or dragons are shown to be taken out.

NOW, that doesn’t mean they didn’t lose more airships in the airal battle (Obviously at least 3 went down around the starting ground zone that you salvage, and the humble was lost) or that more dragons were killed.

BUT, the dragons are capable of downing airships, and if they fled after Zhaitan was defeated and took to the air again afterwards… I don’t see it being an easy cleanup.

as for me it seems like hunting down scatterred single hostiles with zergs in wvw :P

still as for my understoodement also those shot down ships were “old-class” ships while at this point of history vigil should have already developped full fleet of newest ones – and as far as I recall that “new design” one was damaged only by zhaitan himself…..

and hey middle time we’ve had full scale incursion by scarlet battle for lions arch quite much time passed so the Pact had plenty of time to build full fleet not only of same models – improved one even more…..

“-Shield is meant to be broken!”
“-and on this occasion I keep mine plate armors”
discussion about offensive/deffensive playstyles

Would You Fight To Reclaim Ascalon?

in Human

Posted by: Kalavier.1097

Kalavier.1097

Glory of Tyria was a flagship, and far larger then other airships. Also, only a year, maybe two has passed since Zhaitan’s defeat.

Battle for LA was only a few days actually.

Thing is, the actual numbers involved ingame don’t match the lore (because of obvious resource issues). I’ve heard LA had 50k population, and 15k escaped. That’s nowhere close to the actual npc numbers ingame.

Orr had a large population, add that to the ships full of corpses that came to Orr after Zhaitans rise (You stop the flagship in personal story one path you can take), and other factors (shipwrecks in the area post Orr sinking, etc)… that’s a very large population to cut through. They’ll likely be cleanup operations for a long time.

That’s off-topic though :P. Seems like the two main people for Ascalon being human controlled and awesome aren’t responding anymore. A pity, I was curious to what the response to the fact the heroes didn’t experience all the campaigns would be.

Would You Fight To Reclaim Ascalon?

in Human

Posted by: Obsidian.1328

Obsidian.1328

Glory of Tyria was a flagship, and far larger then other airships. Also, only a year, maybe two has passed since Zhaitan’s defeat.

Battle for LA was only a few days actually.

Thing is, the actual numbers involved ingame don’t match the lore (because of obvious resource issues). I’ve heard LA had 50k population, and 15k escaped. That’s nowhere close to the actual npc numbers ingame.

Orr had a large population, add that to the ships full of corpses that came to Orr after Zhaitans rise (You stop the flagship in personal story one path you can take), and other factors (shipwrecks in the area post Orr sinking, etc)… that’s a very large population to cut through. They’ll likely be cleanup operations for a long time.

That’s off-topic though :P. Seems like the two main people for Ascalon being human controlled and awesome aren’t responding anymore. A pity, I was curious to what the response to the fact the heroes didn’t experience all the campaigns would be.

I still check in to this thread, but the topic veered elsewhere so I haven’t posted anything. /shrug

I don’t really have anything to say about numbers of airships or LA inhabitants. You mentioned the in-game population being no where near the stated population…is that at all surprising? A ton of in-game visuals are supposed to represent aspects of expected lore realities, not be direct correlations of them. How in the world would a game designer put 50k npc’s in LA and not have the system crash?

What was your question about heroes?

Obsidian Sky – SoR
I troll because I care

Would You Fight To Reclaim Ascalon?

in Human

Posted by: Kalavier.1097

Kalavier.1097

No, the other guy was going on and on about the heroes of GW1 as if they went through all three campaigns and EOTN, when explicitly Gwen, Vekk, and Odgen were never involved with anything but EOTN.

Would You Fight To Reclaim Ascalon?

in Human

Posted by: bullyrook.2165

bullyrook.2165

Which is why most people correlate EOTN with gw2 instead of gw. That is when it all began lol

Would You Fight To Reclaim Ascalon?

in Human

Posted by: Kalavier.1097

Kalavier.1097

Even then, he was basically acting as if the heroes (EOTN and elsewhere) went all over the place, when the nightfall end cutscene showed the heroes going back to their lives…

Would You Fight To Reclaim Ascalon?

in Human

Posted by: winterchillz.2564

winterchillz.2564

No. Charrs are cuddly and fluffy kittehs.

Cloud of Sparrows
Fluffiest Blood Legion Charr
“At least I die knowing my sisters are free”

Would You Fight To Reclaim Ascalon?

in Human

Posted by: frans.8092

frans.8092

Very good point Zax. I always assumed that was for henchman purposes and campaign continuity…but perhaps not. After all, Devona and Co. went everywhere the player did. The Ascalonian Settlement is a possibility I suppose… if she valued Rurik’s vision over Ascalon I would say. Hard to say.

Sucks GW2 chose to immortalize npc’s like Greywind and Kieran over them…they don’t even come into play until EotN. Same with Gwen minus her little flute quest in Pre. :/

Edit: Greywind was in the Ascalon Settlement in Proph…totally missed him lol

We became mercenary’s, ronin, soldiers without a King, Devona, Mhenlo, Aidan, Cynn, all the other henchmem and the PC the very moment we choose to follow Rurik and defy King Adelbern. We were Soldiers of Ascalon no longer and in stead became soldiers of Tyria, serving all humans, whether Krytans, Ascalons, Elonians or Canthan.

More pragmatically, GW2 lore can not give detailed attention to these heroes without giving similar regards the player’s character, which would be difficult. I’m happy with references to the Flameseeker(s), quite happy with Glint’s role (sad also and incredible angry with Logan)