Guild Wars 2

Hello all. I just have a simple question. Hopefully a dev sees this.

Why is Liadri using red circles on top of an orange floor? Are color blind people not considered at all?

About 8% of the men’s in the US are color blind. Why isn’t this an issue?

I completed myself every Liadri achievement, 8 orbs included. My friend who is color blind is probably one of the best players I know but he cannot do this because he can’t see the AoE circles half of the time.

I just wish color blind people had more consideration in this game.

Thanks for reading.

I approve fixing this
/signed

I haven’t actually tried the gauntlet matches yet so I don’t know how bad it actually is, but red on orange sounds like a really bad color choice even to non-colorblind people. I approve a fix for this as well.

I would suggest making the orbs entirely black. It will color contrast better against the orange floor. It will also contrast best against the white orbs.

I designs web sites for a living and one of the things I have to do on occasion are websites that work for color blind people. I found that strong contrasting colors work best. When they see the colors, even if they shift into shades of brown there is enough of a contrast to made out the subtle differences.

I am not color blind but I have also huge problem with this floor and red circles. Tuning gamma down helps me a bit.

I’m only partially colorblind and still had to lower my gamma quite a bit to see them.
At first I didn’t know that it even had circles.

I’ve tried to beat Liadri for a total of 160 times now.
Doesn’t help that I main a Necro.
…maybe I’ll just do it on my Thief. Sigh.

But yeah GW2 in general is horrible for colorblind.
Allies are green, enemies are red.
So both are same color if you are colorblind.

Honestly I think that it’s pretty disappointing that a huge AAA MMO like GW2 doesn’t have any colorblind support.

Edit: I did beat Liadri eventually… after 182 tries. :P

I don’t know if there is a special word for it, but I only have red cones that work (and only half of those apparently). Basically, it means everything I see is in shades of black/white/red. It certainly doesn’t help having the red AoE circles, my gf had to point them out to me at some points just to make sure I knew I was standing in one.

If you concentrate really hard it is possible to notice, but then you lose awareness of other things happening in the immediate vicinity.

That said: Although they can take it into consideration and try a few methods, I don’t believe the dev’s are responsible for counteracting my eye kittenation (because that is in essence what it is). It’s a thing I and many others live with, and we just need to get over it and try our best.

In a lot of game they have an option for Colorblind, which normally just change Green nuances to something else to help see who’s allies/enemies.

As for me, I turned off ally’s nametag, so in WvW/Pvp I no longer waste a spell trying to hit my teammates, I know that if I see a name it’s a bad person.

I’m colorblind and was able to complete Liadri, however it was a massive pain and way harder than it should have been because of my colorblindness. I had to spend 10-15 rounds learning where to focus my eyes so that I could see the vague flickers of movement, then more memorizing the pattern in phase 1. I died probably 20 more times because it looked like I was outside of the AoE but wasn’t. Once phase 2 started it was basically 50/50 whether I’d be downed immediately when the AoE hit again. If downed, then try again, if not, go where it just was.

I was able to complete it, but do agree that GW2 should be more colorblind-friendly. Outside of this event I’ve had multiple instances where I didn’t even know something was incoming, for example in Honor of the Waves.

I agree on this, i just cant do it.
I need to concentrate so much on the floor to see it, that i cant see
anymore whats happening around me.

Would love to have some dev actually respond to this.

I’m not colorblind, and I think the color choices/design of the arena/fight is by far the worst.

I even started a post somewhere else for Necromancers Death Shroud. As you know DS makes the screen a little green, and the AOE is red. Which makes the AOE little brownish, pretty close to the color of the ground.

I think they should either make the ground flat without any holes in it, or add huge white skull images inside the red AOE to make it more visible.

omg….. can’t ……. fekking…. see….. kitten!

But… she will fall!! :P

Edit: I love that Liadri’s recharge rate for skills is 20bazillion times faster than our own.

Dear anet,

I cant see crap, not even when I lower my gamma.
That is all.

Hi there ANet People,

I have a question.

So, I’m Jamie, 34/F/Philadelphia and I have Multiple Sclerosis irl.

How am I suppose to have coffee with Liadri The Concealing, when my hands don’t move fast enough, and her shadows have killed me 5 minutes before I realize I’m even dead?

I would really much love to have her Mini, I would, but I have tried and tried and tried to kill her multiple times and I can never even get far enough to throw the first Light Crystal. sniffs

I hate to sound like a child about this but, um…tad unfair, maybe?

Take your time, watch other players. She has a pattern which is recognizable so you can actually just take your sweet, sweet time in the first part. The second part is kind of panicky at first, but it also becomes relatively easy (as long as you’re not going for 8orb).

Make sure you stay in the same arena at all times, or it will start becoming confusing again.

popaz.1524:

My friend who is color blind is probably one of the best players I know but he cannot do this because he can’t see the AoE circles half of the time.

So half the time, eh? I didn’t know being color blind was an off and on thing.

You make a fair point.

I don’t mean to sound like a jerk when I say that when someone is handicapped, there are necessarily going to be things in life that are harder or even near-impossible for them to accomplish. It’s not a pleasant fact, it’s not even a fair fact, but it’s still the truth.

Is there a solution for it? Well, not always. Naturally they can’t create content with every disability in mind. If they did, then it wouldn’t even be content for people without those disabilities.

Also, not that I’m endorsing this at all cough but you could always ask a friend to help you by doing the fight if you really want the mini that badly. But I’m not suggesting that at all because it’s against the rules. Just sayin’. cough

(Also are you on JQ? That writing seems familiar)

This is essentially Arenanet’s attempt to please everybody. They split the story event into two segments. One for casual players who are used to how previous story achievements were accomplished, which truthfully, in that respect they were more like tasks then actual accomplishments aka an achievement. The other,, is built for the more hardcore in mind. It is unfortunate really that some people feel left out. especially since the hardcore players have the ability to enjoy both aspects, while the casual is rather limited to their own ability. Can’t please them all unfortunately. I wish you the best of luck.

Bovinity.8610:

You make a fair point.

I don’t mean to sound like a jerk when I say that when someone is handicapped, there are necessarily going to be things in life that are harder or even near-impossible for them to accomplish. It’s not a pleasant fact, it’s not even a fair fact, but it’s still the truth.

Is there a solution for it? Well, not always. Naturally they can’t create content with every disability in mind. If they did, then it wouldn’t even be content for people without those disabilities.

Also, not that I’m endorsing this at all cough but you could always ask a friend to help you by doing the fight if you really want the mini that badly. But I’m not suggesting that at all because it’s against the rules. Just sayin’. cough

(Also are you on JQ? That writing seems familiar)

Nope, I’m on SoS

Well phooey. Bad guess.

This fight isn’t for everyone. Sorry you can’t beat her.

Honestly I understand all opinions that have been laid down here on the table, but… come on.

The Jubilee Mini vs Liadri Mini? I got the little robot… and it sucks in comparison to Liadri…

If anything I look at that Liadri fight and think to myself this is Anet’s way of saying: “Now, Jamie, if you didn’t suck so bad as a player due to your MS, you just might have this little precious gem of a Mini.”

CRINGE!

Why do I think I have to pay my BBF’s husband 20 gold to run this dang fight…? GGGGRRRR

Don’t feel bad, I’m also a MS sufferer and struggle at some areas of this game (actually I am very good at jumping puzzles). But overall this game has really helped my side effects so I can’t say this game is terrible for me. My doctor has praised how much my ability has gone up in the past year. Even though I’ve always played video games.

Sometimes you got to accept that they won’t always make things that we can do so well in games.. But I think we can still beat Liadri, just takes some effort, probably more then most people. Don’t give up though, if you really want it.

Good luck if you continue trying.

Yeah this should be looked at. The 10 billion circles at the last bit of the Aetherblade dungeon were hard enough to see but it’s stupidly hard to see Liadri’s ones.

Katreyn.4218:

Don’t feel bad, I’m also a MS sufferer and struggle at some areas of this game (actually I am very good at jumping puzzles). But overall this game has really helped my side effects so I can’t say this game is terrible for me. My doctor has praised how much my ability has gone up in the past year. Even though I’ve always played video games.

Sometimes you got to accept that they won’t always make things that we can do so well in games.. But I think we can still beat Liadri, just takes some effort, probably more then most people. Don’t give up though, if you really want it.

Good luck if you continue trying.

Oh wow! If anything this game as certainly giving me something to focus on other than my rendering condition. However, I suck at JPs, big time, I just… can’t… my hands, my anxiety, everything. I have actually given myself a fever once, when I tried to do Fractals the first time. Never again.

Now I’m a good player, a kitten good player, 6,473 APs and I refuse to flaunt it, but I refuse to be told I suck at it.

However, with Liadri…. there is just something incredibly wrong with that woman.

I don’t even know what she is, she seems to be a cross between a Necro and a Mesmer.

Anet, you can’t do this to me, this confuses me, and I was already born confused.

Katreyn, feel free to contact me in game!

She’s a necromancer. Although she does have “illusions”, they are labeled visions which actually ties them more towards the mists than mental magic. Additionally, she uses Necrotic Grasp and permanent Death Shroud.

The thing is, Anet can’t make everyone happy. I’m sorry you suffer from a disability, but please don’t ask for a hard and challenging content addition to be made easier simply because you want the mini.

I want the mini too, and I keep failing in the Liadri fight. I’m not disabled. I’m just impatient, and know exactly what I need to do in the fight. Problem is, I panic as I’m fully focused on the boss, and once the red circles pop, I tend to dodge too early.

This content will stay hard, and will only be completed by a small percentage of the player population, disability or not.

@Jaymee: I can totally understand your frustration. I’m not the most coordinated of people, though I can’t attribute that to a disease. The thing I loved about the Guild Wars: Eye of the North bonuses was that you didn’t have to be good at the game to get all of the bonus skins & pets in Guild Wars 2. You just had to play the game and register your accomplishments in the Hall. For the “Hard Core” players, they put in titles so that the Hard Core could show off their awesomeness with a fancy title over their heads. I liked that participation got you souvenirs and that everything after that was bragging rights.

The mini Liadri is really awesome and it taunts people who can’t unlock her. My personal wish would be that the mini was unlocked in a different way and that beating Liadri and/or finishing the Gauntlet meta-achievement got you some kind of title instead. I would have still tried (no matter the difficulty) for the titles because I think they’re a great way to brag for having accomplished something.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

The thing is, Anet can’t make everyone happy. I’m sorry you suffer from a disability, but please don’t ask for a hard and challenging content addition to be made easier simply because you want the mini.

I want the mini too, and I keep failing in the Liadri fight. I’m not disabled. I’m just impatient, and know exactly what I need to do in the fight. Problem is, I panic as I’m fully focused on the boss, and once the red circles pop, I tend to dodge too early.

This content will stay hard, and will only be completed by a small percentage of the player population, disability or not.

~sighs~ I know, but it would have been nice to have an honest shot at me having that Mini, but you’re right, Penguin.

Jaymee.1560:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

The thing is, Anet can’t make everyone happy. I’m sorry you suffer from a disability, but please don’t ask for a hard and challenging content addition to be made easier simply because you want the mini.

I want the mini too, and I keep failing in the Liadri fight. I’m not disabled. I’m just impatient, and know exactly what I need to do in the fight. Problem is, I panic as I’m fully focused on the boss, and once the red circles pop, I tend to dodge too early.

This content will stay hard, and will only be completed by a small percentage of the player population, disability or not.

~sighs~ I know, but it would have been nice to have an honest shot at me having that Mini, but you’re right, Penguin.

Take heart in knowing that while you have MS, you might just have more skills than a lot of players without disabilities.

As unfortunate and unfair as it may seem, ANet made this with the intention of challenging gamers since they haven’t released any content on this difficulty scale yet. Because of this, a much smaller percentage of the playerbase are going to be able to complete it anyway, and when it comes to those with disabilities, it may well become impossible to do. However, the very nature of a disability means you need to accept that there are going to be certain things you can’t do, and the only alternative is for ANet to nerf what was meant to be an incredibly difficult boss fight anyway, which isn’t exactly fair either.

The fact you got upto Liadri is great in itself, and means you’ve already seen and defeated every other encounter in the Gauntlet, not beating Liadri isn’t that big of a deal really.

And they didn’t make it so they could laugh at disabled people who couldn’t do it, it’s just that they didn’t make it with disabled people as the main target audience. They’ve still added heaps of stuff you -can- do, like the Jubilee achievements and the rest of the Gauntlet.

It’s fully intended that not everyone will be able to complete the gauntlet. They even said the mini was a way to show off to other players. Unfortunately however, by making the reward a mini, that was kind of a slap in the face to casual players that collect them. Regardless, someone would have complained no matter what was rewarded.

Since they’re not going to nerf it, cheat. I have friends that are unable to do certain types of content (ie, clock tower), so I’ll do it for them. Get someone else to do it for you. Unlike other events however, this content has a character requirement (tickets, level 80, gear, etc), making it more difficult for someone else to just do it.

Ridley.3691:

As unfortunate and unfair as it may seem, ANet made this with the intention of challenging gamers since they haven’t released any content on this difficulty scale yet. Because of this, a much smaller percentage of the playerbase are going to be able to complete it anyway, and when it comes to those with disabilities, it may well become impossible to do. However, the very nature of a disability means you need to accept that there are going to be certain things you can’t do, and the only alternative is for ANet to nerf what was meant to be an incredibly difficult boss fight anyway, which isn’t exactly fair either.

The fact you got upto Liadri is great in itself, and means you’ve already seen and defeated every other encounter in the Gauntlet, not beating Liadri isn’t that big of a deal really.

And they didn’t make it so they could laugh at disabled people who couldn’t do it, it’s just that they didn’t make it with disabled people as the main target audience. They’ve still added heaps of stuff you -can- do, like the Jubilee achievements and the rest of the Gauntlet.

Very true. While there are things companies/government can do to assist people with disabilities, there will always be that barrier that one just cannot do. For example, take two people – one in a wheelchair and myself. Now take a certain profession – firefighter. The person in the wheelchair is unable to complete the obstacle course, obviously because he can’t climb a ladder. Now take me, no disability, but the physical strain of carrying 50lb. equipment up 10 floors of stairs is too much. We both can’t pass the evaluation. We’re both physically unable to do what’s needed.

If you have MS, and you’ve managed to beat some of the other tough Gauntlet bosses, that in itself is worthy of praise.

Really sorry to hear that dear. It was hard for me even though I don’t have a disability…so I can’t imagine how hard it must be for those with disability…

I am punished because I have no good eyes, i can’t complete the gauntlet because of the floor grid inside the dome in the arena .. i can’t see the red circles … Bad camera angles.

i can see them when im watching someone else but when im inside the dome they are gone ….. please change the floor texture.

make me sad to renounce the mini all the achievement points associated with the gauntlet.. because i have bad eyes.

Sorry to hear that. Some things in the game are going to be visually intensive, and not everyone will be able to complete them. It’s unfortunate, but reality.

What color are the arena floors? I can’t really tell, but they appear to be green. I’m asking this because I can not see the red enemy-AoE circles at all. If I do, it’s because I notice maybe one or two shades of the spikes coming out of the ground, and that’s only if my camera angle is just right. It’s making the gauntlets very difficult to accomplish for a colorblind guy.

One solution I can think of is that ArenaNet could add a black smoke graphic on the floor for her fight. You can clearly see from the outside the black balls of death forming above the red circles, but once inside the dome you can’t spend the entire time looking up at the sky. Adding some black (opaque) smoke rising up from the ground would be a great indicator and still be in theme with Liadri’s aoe attack. I also think that such a graphic would bypass the color-issue.

Edit: Another thought, the little light vortexes would still need to be visible but I don’t think that would be difficult to manage since you can probably just paste it on top of the smoke effect.

Well… For me there are two problems. First is that I am colorblind and it makes it hard enough. SECOND! is that the circles are actually appearing below the ground.

Here is a link showing the problem with Liadri’s circles:
http://postimg.org/image/w6o9d3829/full/
As you can see, the spikiness that was added to combat the difficulty of the red circles for colorblind people is not appearing properly.

Why did a moderator merge a colorblind topic with a multiple sclerosis topic…?

It’s not an MS only topic, it clearly says “vision” in the thread title. I just want to know why the circles are appearing underground for me.

Aranrya.3071:

It’s not an MS only topic, it clearly says “vision” in the thread title. I just want to know why the circles are appearing underground for me.

It got fixed now, but there were 2 threads.

Liadri for Colorblind people
and
Liadri is not for me (or something like this).

The first one was for colorblind people.
The second one was for multiple sclerosis, which is, potentially, a physical handicap.

When merged, the title did not change, so the thread title was Liadri for Colorblind people.

This left the context of the thread in a really awkward spot.

Back on-topic: As a red-green colorblind person, I have to say, at first it was a pain in the rear-end, but then I stopped looking for circles to dodge and figured out I just needed to know where there weren’t circles (as the arena will always shoot in the same order).

I do not have a physical handicap, so I can’t help you there, but I can say that other than panicking, this fight is actually somewhat slow.

When they implemented the animation for the circles, I was cheering. The circles now spike above the ground and it makes it far easier to see given its sporadic movement. However, when that suddenly disappears because the telegraph circle is mistakenly appearing below ground, that’s when I have a problem.

It’s only a game. Deal with it.
I seriously dont know any game with colorblind settings on/off or is playable without hands.

Games are about skill/experience, some people can be better than others..its not unfair, its how games work…

Ye they screwd up Liadri a little, but even I dont want to try it(8 orbs) anymore with my guardian, because its much easier with a mesmer apparently and a good pc(fpslag) and luck.

Gameindustry has also it limits..I rather see people with cyborg hands/eyes in the future than a device(developed from the gaming industry) which lets people play with their current disabilities. The market for such a device would be probably 2 small anyway.

Aranrya.3071:

It’s not an MS only topic, it clearly says “vision” in the thread title. I just want to know why the circles are appearing underground for me.

This WAS a topic about how I have MS and the difficulty it renders me with Liadri. The Forum Moderator merged MY thread with another thread because the two topics are generalized around the same issue.

Hello there. Recently returning to GW in sight of the events, I was pleasantly surprised by almost all of them. In a few days, I again got the will to play the game, run instances, and complete achivements, finally getting the hellfire gauntlets. All in all, the game was starting to entertain me again, until the brick wall – Liadri.

Now, I do not consider myself a bad player. In “another game”, for a certain class, there is a quest with a similiar 1v1 boss – and I can frankly say that due to mechanics and overall gameplay, that fight is indeed several times harder than Liadri. That, I finished with enough attempts, much gold spent, but overall a great satisfaction. The fight was long, and phases different, requiring you to squeeze every bit from your character to prevail.

To top it off, I was among the first on the server to defeat said boss – what is the problem, then?

Simply put, I am colorblind. No matter how I squint – and trust me, I tried, I am simply and completely unable to see the light, light red lines on the reticule metal ground. It is simply not something I can do (Note – I did have the same problems on Lupicus, but the fact that the ground was solid, and had a sharply different colour, made it so that with a range class, I could manage to never get hit if I tried hard.)

Was it a “challenge” factor to make the instant Death move terribly hard to notice? Because honestly, skill in playing a mmo shouldn’t be on catching the tiny details of a red line. It is frustrating me to no end, and after about fifty attempts and much gold spent, I gave up.

The difference, is that on the first example, I never died because of something physically difficult to do. I died because of the fight being genuinely hard, and because I was attempting to find ways around the different phases, balancing dps and survival. Comparatevely, Liadri’s fight is -EXTREMELY- simple. The Orbs do not require great thoughts to cast, and the second phase is merely an option between range and kite or melee and try to finish it off quickly. There is no real execution. The fight’s randomness, coupled with the bridge-running to return to battle, is one of the most annoying things I have done in years in a MMO.

And there is a difference, between that one boss that annoys you, but also fills you with determination to continue, and another that makes you want to shut off the game.

My proposed fix, is not to decrease difficulty – a fight should be difficult (although, Liadri’s reward is nothing to brag home about), but rather to make the fight an actual challenge for the player, rather than being a sight test, or a test of luck.

Make the instant Death aoe more visible: paint the area black, is it that hard?

A mod should merge all these “nerf Liadri” threads.

Side note – if you want to talk about playing with a disability, I believe the mods merged a thread for that too.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/livingworld/jubilee/Ladri-Difficulties-for-people-with-vision-or-movement-disorders/first#post2606288

Thanks for the backseat modding. I am not sure what is it you’re trying to accomplish here, but I’ll just clarify a point, I do not mean to talk about “disabilities”, but rather a certain boss that penalizes those with less than perfect eyesight.

Just pointing out that instead of creating a brand new thread, there are existing threads about the problems you posted about. That’s how the forums end up getting cluttered with so many duplicate threads.