Guild Wars 2

Nokaru.7831:

crestpiemangler.7631:

It’s selfish to exclude people from consideration who do have issues merely because you don’t have them.

Do you know what’s selfish? It’s when players who seek challenge are given 1 boss, and 2 Achievements, and then someone says: “This is an outrage! Take this away from them!”

That has absolutely nothing to do with people having technical issues with the fight and not being able/willing to complete it because of those issues.

I couldn’t care less if people were granted the in-game title of grandmaster emperor guru; those things do not affect me in the slightest, since I only play this game for my personal enjoyment.

I wouldn’t even care if somebody exploited the fight to get the achievement, since they will have only cheated themselves.

I do care about needlessly arrogant individuals downplaying the technical issues that surround the gauntlet to stroke their egos.

Nettle.9025:

This is a completely vitriolic thing to say. I’m relatively successful outside of this game. Doesn’t mean I can’t look for a challenge in a game as well. Don’t try to tell others what their idea of fun should be either. I actually enjoy difficulty, as do many others. Try to realize not everyone thinks like you do.

Amazing how you took offense at something that only addressed people who were trying to claim that people who were unable/unwilling to complete the content were inferior in real life.

Are you one of those people? Do you think people who suffer from low fps/colorblindness are somehow less than you? If you don’t, then you shouldn’t even heed that statement, since it had nothing to do with you

If you do, then enjoy that swig of bitter reality.

Calae.1738:

There are 2 types of people. Each respond differently to problems. One type is a performance type. They will usually rage and give up before solving the problem. The second type is a mastery type. This person looks at failure in a different way. They learnt what made them fail so they keep trying new things and eventually succeed.

There are also two types of people divided according to a different principle. The first look at the world, think about it and try to improve it. The other take the world as it is, fully believing that what they see is the best they can have. This division can also be seen in this topic.

I think one-shot abilities are a lame way to inject “difficulty” into a fight anyway. Especially in the gauntlet’s case where you have skewed camera angles, graphical difficulties, unclear ‘tells’, lag from below, etc. You have about a .5 second reaction time to an instant game over ability when just about everything is already working against you.

Enemies should have devastating abilities that cause you to have to adjust your gameplay to something smarter or safer, but there should be some kind of possible recovery. No such thing exists with these insta-kill abilities. You blink at the wrong time and you’re dead. That’s not difficult, it’s just BS.

I feel like one shot attacks would be fine it they are performed by the boss and we can actually use one of the supposedly 3 pillars of guild wars 2 combat: not damage, not support, but Control. Obviously, by now I believe Arenanet has completely forgotten about that the three pillar thing and are simply trying random things to see how they work.

If one-shot mechanics are so awesome, why not give players the choice about whether or not they are down-leveled in a low-level PvE zone so we can run around one-shotting things too?

For that matter, why not have all PvP players just keep their normal level, so the level 80’s can one-shot all the lowbies?

I mean, it’s super-fun, right?

Astralporing.1957:

Lucius.2140:

Astralporing.1957:

wintermute.4096:

Within the constraints of the game mechanics we have, oneshots and the dodge mechanics are a perfect match.

Yes, exactly. That is a problem. Dodge mechanics completely trivializes all other tactics on player part, and makes only a few avenues of ramping difficulty viable (one shots, undodgables, attacks without visible windups, and fast attack spam). Combo of one shot and dodge makes all gear except berserker useless (or at least seriously inferior), as defensive stats are expressly ignored by the fight’s design (and short timer encourages to just pile up damage after damage).

This completely breaks most of the combat mechanics, clearly showing, that the whole design is flawed in it’s conception.

You cant do permanent doge, and the more time you dodge, the less you hit.

Thus even more insistence on pure dps builds.

First sentence means healing power, vit and toughness give you more survival against the atacks you dont dodge, second one means four things:
a As you said the full dps type.
b You take more time, and if is a full tank build, perphaps even you take more not one shot atacks and tank them, for hitting more.
c Full dodge builds like some engineer build, dont work at full.
d If the enemy is even more stronger in the damage he/she does, mantaining the one shot mechanic, zerker couldnt be viable at a point.

Its nice to see the spectrum of possibilities, try it.

What the gauntlet fights remind me of is old-school NES games. Those games we challenging, and for a lot of them, everything killed you in one hit. But those games, like the gauntlet for the most part, were also predictable once you learned the pattern. RNG didn’t exist in the NES (or maybe it did, I could be making this all up), so you’d just have to keep retrying a level, getting a little bit further each time, until you beat it.

The gauntlet fights. for the most part, are the same. Maybe DED a bit more random now that they tried to reduce the farming. But Liadri for example. When I was fighting her, I’d notice it always starts with a cosmic rift across from where you start. Then you gotta run back to the otherside for the first whirlpool, but wait, by then the shadowfall is going to hit first behind it, then in front of it, so be ready to position yourself appropriately…

…etc. Sure, there’s some small difference in the exact location of everything, but they’re all in the same general area. The shadowfall attacks have painfully difficult to see aoe rings, but they always fall in the same pattern. Its designed so one wrong move will mean you fail, but its repeatable and you can learn the patterns. These bosses don’t even have the ridiculous amounts of health that some very boring boss fights consist of (fractal jellyfish boss? Aka afk-autoattack-boss)

Granted, it isn’t without its flaws. The biggest one being that if you die, you either need to hope there’s someone around you kind enough to rez, or you need to respawn and run all the way back. And also, the limited number of arenas means you might not be able to retry right away, when you may have thought you just got it down, and want to retry right again before you forget what you needed to do to get it right.

silvermember.8941:

I feel like one shot attacks would be fine it they are performed by the boss and we can actually use one of the supposedly 3 pillars of guild wars 2 combat: not damage, not support, but Control. Obviously, by now I believe Arenanet has completely forgotten about that the three pillar thing and are simply trying random things to see how they work.

None of the bosses have defiant. Pull, push, daze, whatever control you want, can interrupt their one shots. Unless you define control as something other than pull, push, daze, etc skills?

crestpiemangler.7631:

Nettle.9025:

This is a completely vitriolic thing to say. I’m relatively successful outside of this game. Doesn’t mean I can’t look for a challenge in a game as well. Don’t try to tell others what their idea of fun should be either. I actually enjoy difficulty, as do many others. Try to realize not everyone thinks like you do.

Amazing how you took offense at something that only addressed people who were trying to claim that people who were unable/unwilling to complete the content were inferior in real life.

Find me a post like that. Nobody’s written one, near as I can tell. So who were you speaking to?

Wallach.7291:

Find me a post like that. Nobody’s written one, near as I can tell. So who were you speaking to?

Well if that’s the case, then nobody has anything to worry about.

the one boss didn’t have a very good tell, and i decided i didn’t care anymore
i said to myself “i’ll just dodge right now, before i get 1-shotted”

initiated my dodge roll, BooM x_x dead

so apparently it’s my fault for not having esp

crestpiemangler.7631:

Wallach.7291:

Find me a post like that. Nobody’s written one, near as I can tell. So who were you speaking to?

Well if that’s the case, then nobody has anything to worry about.

Then why write something so childish and passive aggressive? Were it not aimed at someone it would seem foolish to write it at all, especially in the context of something so meaningless. Don’t twist yourself up in rationalization over a boss in a video game.

Wallach.7291:

Then why write something so childish and passive aggressive? Were it not aimed at someone it would seem foolish to write it at all, especially in the context of something so meaningless. Don’t twist yourself up in rationalization over a boss in a video game.

You seem to take personal offense, so obviously you belong to that crowd.

I don’t need to rationalize anything. It’s a video game. Beating it is completely meaningless.

There were harder games released for many different consoles, you don’t see people in their 30’s-40’s bragging about it.

I don’t see any resumes with “I beat contra on one life” on them, because nobody cares.

The cruel reality of any soloplay, non-competitive video game is that the only person who cares about your success at it is you.

crestpiemangler.7631:

Wallach.7291:

Then why write something so childish and passive aggressive? Were it not aimed at someone it would seem foolish to write it at all, especially in the context of something so meaningless. Don’t twist yourself up in rationalization over a boss in a video game.

You seem to take personal offense, so obviously you belong to that crowd.

I don’t need to rationalize anything. It’s a video game. Beating it is completely meaningless.

There were harder games released for many different consoles, you don’t see people in their 30’s-40’s bragging about it.

I don’t see any resumes with “I beat contra on one life” on them, because nobody cares.

The cruel reality of any soloplay, non-competitive video game is that the only person who cares about your success at it is you.

I only take issue with the idea that you think it’s appropriate to be rude to other people here in the forum because you’re frustrated about something in a video game.

That’s the part you’re rationalizing, by the way.

Wallach.7291:

I only take issue with the idea that you think it’s appropriate to be rude to other people here in the forum because you’re frustrated about something in a video game.

That’s the part you’re rationalizing, by the way.

Be rude? What? I’m supposed to kiss the ground you walk on, because you beat Liadri and I called you out on calling people “bad” who were unable/unwilling to complete it?

That’s a joke. I don’t respect you and I don’t respect anybody else who thinks that they deserve a pat on the back, happy ending and bejeweled crown for anything they have done in this game.

crestpiemangler.7631:

Wallach.7291:

I only take issue with the idea that you think it’s appropriate to be rude to other people here in the forum because you’re frustrated about something in a video game.

That’s the part you’re rationalizing, by the way.

Be rude? What? I’m supposed to kiss the ground you walk on, because you beat Liadri and I called you out on calling people “bad” who were unable/unwilling to complete it?

That’s a joke. I don’t respect you and I don’t respect anybody else who thinks that they deserve a pat on the back, happy ending and bejeweled crown for anything they have done in this game.

I called people “bad” because they couldn’t complete this? What are you even talking about?

This is what I mean about rationalization, you’ve projected all kinds of stupid opinions on people so that it’s easier for you to pretend they deserve to be talked to like that. Now you can move people into a category before they’ve even said anything.

Yet I look and I don’t see signs of these people claiming they deserve other players’ respect for doing it, or claiming other players are “bad” if they can’t do it.

This combat is as difficult as the camera position sets it. It’s an artificially created difficulty. If you have a decent POV you don’t have any problem with it, because I think that everyone knows how to deal with 3 things at the same time, but when you can’t see one of them you are doomed.
So, be oneshooted is a challenge? No, the challenge is to fight against this camera.

Charak.9761:

They punish you if you try to ignore mechanics

the first guy has a long telegraph slam, it one shots everyone who is going to try to facetank it

no they are not punish you to try ignoring mechanics thief can do liadra like killin a normal mob why cause they blind all illisions teleport and use endurance nearly everytime if only one class can do it and many of the others cant do it they should fix the kittening mechanics

besides if you have a taller size norn male like me dome inside you is another challenge your vision is to low compared to asura human or silvary

Wallach.7291:

This is what I mean about rationalization, you’ve projected all kinds of stupid opinions on people so that it’s easier for you to pretend they deserve to be talked to like that. Now you can move people into a category before they’ve even said anything.

Yet I look and I don’t see signs of these people claiming they deserve other players’ respect for doing it, or claiming other players are “bad” if they can’t do it.

Well, look harder.

Games are supposed to be about having fun. This isn’t a professional sport where participants are awarded by 6-7 figure salaries, this is something you should enjoy doing in your spare time.

Nothing you can accomplish in this game equates to success in real life, which is why, perhaps, people who can’t succeed at real life come here to find something they can do that others can’t, regardless of the complete absence of impact it has outside of the game.

Wow. It’s really sad to me every time I see someone declare that any form of “challenge” has to be mutually exclusive from “fun”. And that if you don’t agree, you must “have no life” or some other standard line.

Maybe just shutting your brain off entirely is fun for YOU, but some people enjoy challenges in many forms, including their games and/or recreation. Implying that somehow that makes them wrong, or means they “have no life” is patently absurd.

As an aside, I really have never met a more self-loathing group of people than gamers. It’s no wonder outsiders think of gamers as no-life fat losers living in mom’s basement, because even gamers see each other that way. It’s pretty sad, overall.

Bovinity.8610:

Maybe just shutting your brain off entirely is fun for YOU, but some people enjoy challenges in many forms, including their games and/or recreation. Implying that somehow that makes them wrong, or means they “have no life” is patently absurd.

Oh really? Then why aren’t you playing chess, or starcraft 2 that requires more strategy AND skill?

Does it lack the obtuse camera angles and low fps that you so desire? You’re right, without those annoyances, games are simply dull.

Not to mention that even color blind people are good at chess and we couldn’t have that.

Sigh – Back to ideas on how to fix this issue instead of pointing fingers at each other and saying that the other person is not being tolerant of your play style…

Like I said earlier – the issue is that there is an achievement tied to this particular boss fight, and that it rewards a particular play style. Where as others who don’t play in such a way want this achievement as well – they just don’t see it as fair that the other group has “exclusive” access to an achievement. IF Liadri gave NO achievement then those who don’t have the particular play style wouldn’t complain about it, and we wouldn’t be having any arguments.

I hereby again propose that ANET make dual achievement reward paths for future living story achievements in that the “hardcore” can complete the achievement with a single very difficult boss fight, and the “casual” can complete the SAME achievement with doing an easier boss fight at least 5-10 times.

Many casual players will probably be ok with this, and those of the hardcore variety will see that they CAN get all the achievements without the grindy repetitive feel whilst being challenged. The only issue I see is with some players who want people to do it exactly as they did it to get the same achievement (and if you are one of them I say that achievements ARE for EVERYONE).

the thing with this game is “everything is avoidable”.

In other mmorpg, you have to take damage since many of them you can’t even avoid.

So its weird not being killed by something it is avoidable.

So what’s the point of making you like 2 shot or 3 shot? So it is like playing megaman with 3 life instead of one?

Most of the difficulty is the camera angles and the deliberate use of the floor to make red circles harder to see than they normally are- and the thing is, these are things that people have complained about hundreds of times over the past year, so obviously they either are intentionally giving us kittenty camera angles because they think that’s a legitimate way to increase difficulty, or they’ve been ignoring everything we’ve said.

Take your pick.

you can actually move around the camera. Those red circle on the floor are so hard to distinguish even if you see it.

Yes, actually. You’re punished for screwing up in the form of ending combat and restarting.

VoxShatterfall.5470:

and if you are one of them I say that achievements ARE for EVERYONE).

No they’re not. The very definition of achievement explicitly states that achievements are not for everyone. Unless everyone is equally as skilled and capable of obtaining said achievement. And they’re not.

VoxShatterfall.5470:

(and if you are one of them I say that achievements ARE for EVERYONE).

Incorrect. Achievements are for achievers. Handouts are for everyone.

crestpiemangler.7631:

That has absolutely nothing to do with people having technical issues with the fight and not being able/willing to complete it because of those issues.

Sorry that Liadri has made you so bitter; perhaps it’s time you took a break from it, instead of trolling the forums with you negativity and hate-mongering. Seriously- calling players “chimps”? That’s somebody’s son or daughter you’re insulting over a video game…

Latency is going to be a problem no matter what aspect of the game we play. I deal with “skill-lag” in WvW during massive battles. Should they cancel WvW until they fix it? No. I have the option of leaving whenever I please, and I know the lag is not permanent.

When I beat Liadri, it was on the first day when there was skill lag occurring every time one of the Crown Pavilion bosses spawned. I had to simply not queue until they were dead, or I would be unable to dodge the AoE. Things are much better these days, especially when your map is not capped out. If this was your experience, I suggest trying again.

Best of luck.

I’m really tired of all these “skill challenges” which seem to focus on dpsing everything down as fast as possible, and dodge rolling. Spam all the buttons! Dodge! Some real complex gameplay you got there…

KamikazKid.4872:

I’m really tired of all these “skill challenges” which seem to focus on dpsing everything down as fast as possible, and dodge rolling. Spam all the buttons! Dodge! Some real complex gameplay you got there…

If you honestly think that’s what you have to do to beat Liadri you’re sorely mistaken.

Nokaru.7831:

crestpiemangler.7631:

That has absolutely nothing to do with people having technical issues with the fight and not being able/willing to complete it because of those issues.

Sorry that Liadri has made you so bitter; perhaps it’s time you took a break from it, instead of trolling the forums with you negativity and hate-mongering. Seriously- calling players “chimps”? That’s somebody’s son or daughter you’re insulting over a video game…

Latency is going to be a problem no matter what aspect of the game we play. I deal with “skill-lag” in WvW during massive battles. Should they cancel WvW until they fix it? No. I have the option of leaving whenever I please, and I know the lag is not permanent.

When I beat Liadri, it was on the first day when there was skill lag occurring every time one of the Crown Pavilion bosses spawned. I had to simply not queue until they were dead, or I would be unable to dodge the AoE. Things are much better these days, especially when your map is not capped out. If this was your experience, I suggest trying again.

Best of luck.

My feelings are seriously hurt, but this forum isn’t about people arguing, it’s about baiting and reporting posts, so that the moderator can delete them.

What bothers me the most, is that they made a mechanic that was intended to make aoe effects more clear to the players (the red circles), less visible.

It’s like having a band aid to an already dumb problem (that other games don’t even need), and then messing up the band aid as well. AOE effects simply need to be so clear that you don’t need red circles to see them. How hard is that to get right? I’ve worked on boss battles in the past. I’ve made them myself. It’s not that hard! Come on Anet, fix this. Get rid of the red circles entirely, and just make clear visual effects that we can dodge.

Sawnic.6795:

KamikazKid.4872:

I’m really tired of all these “skill challenges” which seem to focus on dpsing everything down as fast as possible, and dodge rolling. Spam all the buttons! Dodge! Some real complex gameplay you got there…

If you honestly think that’s what you have to do to beat Liadri you’re sorely mistaken.

funny,that’s EXACTLY what you need to do lol. You learn patterns in phase 1 then if you’re full zerker warr you just dps the crap out of liandri in phase 2 in 4 seconds. There is a video on youtube about that.

I think it should be mentioned that there is a problem known as skill delay related to server lag, which means that people who naturally have high latency can’t (or on most professions without invuln/vigor) even complete this fight by default.

Not to mention the color blindness, not to mention the graphical issues, not to mention the extreme FPS/stuttering.

I think Liadri, the way she is now would be fine with improvements to the above.

However, there is no trivial solution to the skill delay, which means that the fight in itself was simply not designed for that subset of the community.

Its Arenanets idea of “difficulty” either one shot kill you, or flood the area with area effect spells to one shot kill you.

Its a joke.

It’s clearly not well thought out- when every fight has the same strategy- pick up a warrior, get full zerkers, and burst away.

Anet, if you’re really going to go this path of making utility, healing, bunkers, balanced specs, etc… being utterly useless and making burst builds the suggested way to deal with all content- maybe it’s time to take away everything else and admit you never intended for us to ‘play our way’.

crestpiemangler.7631:

I think it should be mentioned that there is a problem known as skill delay related to server lag, which means that people who naturally have high latency can’t (or on most professions without invuln/vigor) even complete this fight by default.

Not to mention the color blindness, not to mention the graphical issues, not to mention the extreme FPS/stuttering.

I think Liadri, the way she is now would be fine with improvements to the above.

However, there is no trivial solution to the skill delay, which means that the fight in itself was simply not designed for that subset of the community.

Don’t forget the failed bundle pick-up bug (picking up while moving disabling movement control) or the ranged attack obstruction on rifts. All of the functionality/technical stuff hopefully is addressed by the time this event returns to the game. The margin for error being reduced so far magnifies the effect of “small” issues like these into quite large ones.

Kagamiku.9731:

VoxShatterfall.5470:

and if you are one of them I say that achievements ARE for EVERYONE).

No they’re not. The very definition of achievement explicitly states that achievements are not for everyone. Unless everyone is equally as skilled and capable of obtaining said achievement. And they’re not.

You didn’t comment on my statement above that – I just suggested simply that achievements should have multiple ways to obtain, there by making skilled players fulfilled by doing the “fastest and riskiest” route, where as other players would need to sink hours into one achievement.

It doesn’t change the fact that you don’t want others to have an achievement unless they are either a) as skilled as you b) used the same strategy as you or c) met a certain minimum worthiness requirement you placed on the achievement. The issue is achievements should only matter to one person – yourself – who cares if someone can grind for 2 hours to get the Liadri achievement, where as you can do it in 2 mins? I’m just saying that hard work should be a valid way to get achievements as well as excellent play. That’s what I’m trying to get everyone to understand, that all achievements should have multiple paths so that people with different play styles can actually earn them!

Oh really? Then why aren’t you playing chess, or starcraft 2 that requires more strategy AND skill?

Actually, I do play a lot of more involved games like that. I do, however, find the MMO setting and playstyle to my liking, so if I can find one of those that offers a decent challenge then that would be ideal for me.

crestpiemangler.7631:

Wallach.7291:

Then why write something so childish and passive aggressive? Were it not aimed at someone it would seem foolish to write it at all, especially in the context of something so meaningless. Don’t twist yourself up in rationalization over a boss in a video game.

You seem to take personal offense, so obviously you belong to that crowd.

Just because something thinks something you wrote idiotic doesn’t mean they took offense to it.
Though of course,because I think the way you interact with people who disagree with you is extremely childish and moronic you’ll probably assume that you’ve offended me in some way and use that to disregard whatever I’ve said.

Radu.1693:

Just because something thinks something you wrote idiotic doesn’t mean they took offense to it.
Though of course,because I think the way you interact with people who disagree with you is extremely childish and moronic you’ll probably assume that you’ve offended me in some way and use that to disregard whatever I’ve said.

Just quoting that before you edit it

Hello,

As this thread derailed with off-topic & inflammatory comments, it is now closed.

Thank you for your understanding.