Guild Wars 2

OP here. From the responses I’ve gotten so far, it seems that some people agree with me and others don’t… Which is fine. But it does seem to illustrate that the community is divided as to whether this type of content is good for the game or not.

I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again: Arenanet, if you’re listening, we could use some polls to find out if the majority of the playerbase actually appreciates this kind of content.

The wouldn’t even need to do a poll, they could just run their internal numbers.

A. How many people play the game fairly regularly.

B. How many people have tried the new Teq fight at least once.

C. How many of those people never tried it again?

D. How many people kept trying until they got their achievements?

E. How many of those players never played it again?

Just compare those numbers and that should give a solid result.

If the number of players who tried Teq is well less than the total number of consistent players, then that is a bad sign.

If the number of people who gave up before completing Teq is relatively high then that is a bad sign.

If the number of people who quit Teq as soon as they’d “cleared” him is relatively high, then that is a bad sign.

The only thing that could be seen to justify the “Tequatlization” of the game is if a sizable portion of the player base is STILL routinely doing the Teq fight, because they enjoy doing it, at levels comparable to other open world events like Claw of Jormag or even the Karka Queen.

Ohoni.6057:

The wouldn’t even need to do a poll, they could just run their internal numbers.

A. How many people play the game fairly regularly.

B. How many people have tried the new Teq fight at least once.

C. How many of those people never tried it again?

D. How many people kept trying until they got their achievements?

E. How many of those players never played it again?

Just compare those numbers and that should give a solid result.

If the number of players who tried Teq is well less than the total number of consistent players, then that is a bad sign.

If the number of people who gave up before completing Teq is relatively high then that is a bad sign.

If the number of people who quit Teq as soon as they’d “cleared” him is relatively high, then that is a bad sign.

The only thing that could be seen to justify the “Tequatlization” of the game is if a sizable portion of the player base is STILL routinely doing the Teq fight, because they enjoy doing it, at levels comparable to other open world events like Claw of Jormag or even the Karka Queen.

This. I somehow doubt their internal metrics are this detailed, but having data like this would give them a more precise view of what the players are thinking instead of just assuming that we’re all satisfied with the content because we participated in it.

PeterThomas.7243:

Hi.

I’m a casual player.

Events like Tequatl are completely inaccessible to a person like me.

No they are not. In the Tequatl fight you can play defense, which basically consists of killing mobs and running from here to there to lend a hand from time to time. The only hard part of the tequatl event is organizing it, but the individual tasks can be carried out by anybody. All you need, as a casual player, is to find out when the battle is going to take place, and commiting to it for 15 minutes which, as a casual player, I am sure you may have from time to time.

I am a casual player and have downed Tequila, the Marionette, and will probably down the wurms some day (or maybe not, I don’t find that boss too entertaining)

But the marionette? come on! it’s epic! even if you fail (which I have done 5 times) it is epic. And you only need to play for half an hour to beat it, so it is perfectly doable by a casual player

Ohoni.6057:

If the number of people who quit Teq as soon as they’d “cleared” him is relatively high, then that is a bad sign.

No it’s not. Teq and the wurm were specifically created as content for a certain type of player. Much the same way you will NEVER get a lot of PvErs to PvP. But no one in their right mind thinks PvP is a bad idea for GW2.

Not everything in the game is created for everyone. And when things that aren’t created for one specific person, that one specific person usually throws a temper tantrum.

Listen to the end of the Desolation kill of the wurm video, there are the better part of 200 people all cheering and screaming as loud as they can. That’s pretty cool!

Not everything is meant for everyone. I don’t like fractals, but you don’t hear me complaining when they do fractal updates. I really like these new events. The marionette, in particular, is a lot of fun.

Zylonite.5913:

People love to zerg and Anet delivers zerg contents. Everyone happy….

not everyone :C

Morrigan.2809:

Zylonite.5913:

People love to zerg and Anet delivers zerg contents. Everyone happy….

Marionette is the opposite of zerg content actually- don’t know about wurm since I haven’t tried him yet.

OP I consider myself a casual player, I do enjoy different types content but I will simply not waste my time to farm for Ascended anything,
That said just because you are casual does not mean unskillful.

Why do you not try these new bosses and see for yourself?
Marrionette is one of the best designed encounters if not the best in the game- it is tonnes of fun too.

If you do not like this kind of thing however- don’t worry Anet is very aware that their player base mostly consist of casual players.

There was a quote recently that specifically stated that this update ( wurm ) was a nod to people who enjoy harder content and do not mind failing until they succeed.

This patch do also contain great story and once you get into Scarlet’s lair- the mystery gets very interesting

90% waiting before a laserwall – during which you have to zerg.
10% fighting a boss with some other random players with some new mechaniks.

sorry. but the 90% vastly overpower the last 10% :/

Ohoni.6057:

The wouldn’t even need to do a poll, they could just run their internal numbers.

A. How many people play the game fairly regularly.

B. How many people have tried the new Teq fight at least once.

C. How many of those people never tried it again?

D. How many people kept trying until they got their achievements?

E. How many of those players never played it again?

Just compare those numbers and that should give a solid result.

There’s one more important question, that unfortunately cannot be answered with “metrics”.

F. How many players are doing Teq now just for loot, but do not really find the event fun (or would be satisfied with an easier version)?

I’m realy surprised. It’s not like Tequatl was some kind of casual-devouring monster before this patch (haven’t done it since the Elemental Powder change).

Since it requires a lot of people and some organization, the fight is unlikely to spontaneously succeed and needs to be somewhat scheduled.
Playing on a low population server where the community doesn’t program Tequatls kills can be a problem, as it can be not being able to fit the schedule, but once that barrier is overcome, the fight itself doesn’t require coordination at all.
Whoever is leading will assign 6 people to turrets, 2-3 parties to fight risen spawns and the rest of the players to the zerg (where there could be some group for killing fingers). For the majority of those zerg players, it’s all about runing a decent build and doing their job (a quite simple one).

Same could be said for the Marionette.
Players just need to know the fight and build apropiately for it (adjustable to each player capabilities). If these conditions are met, only some crazy split (like having about 10 other people on yout plantform while there are only 3 on the next one) can ruin the event (amd all of us hope this to be fixed).
There’s no coordination required and the organization is all about having the playerbase properly split between lanes.

No they are not. In the Tequatl fight you can play defense, which basically consists of killing mobs and running from here to there to lend a hand from time to time. The only hard part of the tequatl event is organizing it, but the individual tasks can be carried out by anybody. All you need, as a casual player, is to find out when the battle is going to take place, and commiting to it for 15 minutes which, as a casual player, I am sure you may have from time to time.

Under what circumstances can you down Teq only committing 15 minutes to it? True, I haven’t even bothered attempting it in a while, but back when I was, any Teq server that was going to be viable was already filled up a half hour or more before the fight, so while the fight might only take 15 minutes, it required standing around doing nothing for about a half hour too. if they’ve managed to fix that in the meantime then great.

No it’s not. Teq and the wurm were specifically created as content for a certain type of player. Much the same way you will NEVER get a lot of PvErs to PvP. But no one in their right mind thinks PvP is a bad idea for GW2.

PvP is not a bad idea for GW2 so long as it is kept segregated from the PvE aspects. So long as there are rewards, even purely cosmetic ones, that apply to the PvE game, but that require PvP play to earn, or even that are simply easier to earn via PvP, then yes, PvP would be a bad idea for GW2.

The problem here is that the fights like Teq and the Triple Wurm offer rewards unique to that fight, and also rewards that are easier to get if you can pass that fight. As I’ve said before, remove those specific rewards, return the Teq chest to the old contents, and the Triple-Wurm chest to the same as the Caledon Wurm, and they can leave them in as is. I have no problem with content I don’t care to do being in the game, I do have a problem with it being attached to loot that I want.

I think the main issue here is “accessibility”, and there are two main contributing factors:

1. You need to be in a very populated map to succeed at these large boss events. Tequatl was designed to require about 80+ people to beat. The Marionette ideally requires 100+, and the GJW needs close to the 150 people cap. This results in a situation where everybody tries to get into the map during peak hours, and then the world boss is abandoned the rest of the day because people know there won’t be enough participants to even have a hope of trying to beat it, resulting in a vicious cycle. It’s especially unfair on lower population servers where even open world PvE can be almost deserted at times, but even on a large pop server like Tarnished Coast, Tequatl can go unchallenged for most of the day. Gods help you if you happen to play at some odd hour that’s never around reset too; your chances of ever beating Tequatl or the GJW are slim to none.

2. A side-effect of the first issue is that to ensure that one gets into a decently populated map to take down the boss, you often need to camp for hours in the map beforehand. That’s 1.5 – 2 hours of time you can’t do anything else in, whether it be mapping or WvW or dungeons or whatever you’d rather be doing. And during this time, you also have to pray that you don’t get disconnected, or all of that time has been wasted.

The thing that frustrates me the most about this situation is that both of these issues could be solved by better scaling, the same dynamic mechanism that ANet is (rightfully) so proud of and sold the game on. If Tequatl, the GJW and future bosses like the Marionette all scaled down so they could be completed by, say, 10 – 20 people, both issues would no longer be a problem. People could show up to Tequatl or the Wurm at any hour of the day and know they’d have a decent chance at victory as long as there’s a handful of people there. (And if you get shoved into an overflow, again, as long as there’s a handful of people there who know the mechanics and what to do, you still have a decent shot at the rewards.) Much like current World Bosses like the Shatterer or the Karka Queen, as long as one or a few people can get the ball rolling, you KNOW that others will show up.

I want ANet to make this content so it’s accessible to ALL players, on both large and small servers. It’s not a question about difficulty or challenge; you can have a challenging fight at 10 players as it is at 100 players. And I believe it’s entirely possible to pull off.

Ohoni.6057:

There was a quote recently that specifically stated that this update ( wurm ) was a nod to people who enjoy harder content and do not mind failing until they succeed.

Yes, and these people should get nothing. Willy Wonka style. Not to be mean, but there are plenty of games that reward that type of gameplay, GW2 should not be one of those games. GW2 should continue offering the best rewards to the people who like GW2 for what it is, not for those that want to import raid-style content from other games.

Wow, just wow…

Egoistic much?

Ohoni.6057:

Says you. I say you’re wrong. I say that GW2 should have content that appeals to players of all types, not just casuals and not just hardcore raiders.

So where does that leave us? Thankfully, the devs agree with me, not you, and the game is in a better place because of it.

I think that just ends up pleasing no one, because the raiders feel that there’s not enough content to justify their attention, and the non-raiders feel that the raiders are getting the best loot (which they are). Again, if they completely remove the chests from the Wurms and Teq, then they can leave the events in, but those types of enemies should not have superior loot.

Speak for yourself. Every piece of challenging content they’ve released has been a pleasant experience to me and others. It’s the [bad type of] casuals that cry about something they cannot get because they’re not willing to put any effort into it. Well, that’s how the world works, if you don’t work towards something, you won’t get it and will have to deal with it.
I am thankful that the devs release content for both casual and hardcore players and so should you. If not, well that’s too bad.

FenrirSlakt.3692:

Ohoni.6057:

Says you. I say you’re wrong. I say that GW2 should have content that appeals to players of all types, not just casuals and not just hardcore raiders.

So where does that leave us? Thankfully, the devs agree with me, not you, and the game is in a better place because of it.

I think that just ends up pleasing no one, because the raiders feel that there’s not enough content to justify their attention, and the non-raiders feel that the raiders are getting the best loot (which they are). Again, if they completely remove the chests from the Wurms and Teq, then they can leave the events in, but those types of enemies should not have superior loot.

Speak for yourself. Every piece of challenging content they’ve released has been a pleasant experience to me and others. It’s the [bad type of] casuals that cry about something they cannot get because they’re not willing to put any effort into it. Well, that’s how the world works, if you don’t work towards something, you won’t get it and will have to deal with it.
I am thankful that the devs release content for both casual and hardcore players and so should you. If not, well that’s too bad.

So will you also start calling out people who complain that there isn’t enough hard content. The crying for that has been going on for a while. You can’t put down one group and not the other as there is a name for that, hypocrisy.

Conner.4702:

FenrirSlakt.3692:

Ohoni.6057:

Says you. I say you’re wrong. I say that GW2 should have content that appeals to players of all types, not just casuals and not just hardcore raiders.

So where does that leave us? Thankfully, the devs agree with me, not you, and the game is in a better place because of it.

I think that just ends up pleasing no one, because the raiders feel that there’s not enough content to justify their attention, and the non-raiders feel that the raiders are getting the best loot (which they are). Again, if they completely remove the chests from the Wurms and Teq, then they can leave the events in, but those types of enemies should not have superior loot.

Speak for yourself. Every piece of challenging content they’ve released has been a pleasant experience to me and others. It’s the [bad type of] casuals that cry about something they cannot get because they’re not willing to put any effort into it. Well, that’s how the world works, if you don’t work towards something, you won’t get it and will have to deal with it.
I am thankful that the devs release content for both casual and hardcore players and so should you. If not, well that’s too bad.

So will you also start calling out people who complain that there isn’t enough hard content. The crying for that has been going on for a while. You can’t put down one group and not the other as there is a name for that, hypocrisy.

But none of both groups is being let down! It’s not like all casual content suddenly vanishes into oblivion whenever something challenging appears. In fact, casual players should be happy that the so-called Elitists will not be around their usual activities as they’ll be busy trying to beat new hard content.

Wow, just wow…

Egoistic much?

Exactly my point. There are those that think that they are better than other players, and therefore deserve superior rewards for playing the way they most enjoy. No, they can add tougher content, but the rewards should be the same as for the content that the rest of the players enjoy too.

But none of both groups is being let down! It’s not like all casual content suddenly vanishes into oblivion whenever something challenging appears. In fact, casual players should be happy that the so-called Elitists will not be around their usual activities as they’ll be busy trying to beat new hard content.

Nobody minds having elitists around, they generally are quite helpful at doing the new content. As a more casual player, all I expect is two things moving forward, 1. that more casual content keeps getting added as well as more difficult stuff (none was added in this patch), and 2. that the rewards for the difficult stuff is not anything that couldn’t be earned elsewhere, so that players who don’t care about the content don’t feel encouraged to run it regardless for the loot.

Ohoni.6057:

Nobody minds having elitists around, they generally are quite helpful at doing the new content. As a more casual player, all I expect is two things moving forward, 1. that more casual content keeps getting added as well as more difficult stuff (none was added in this patch), and 2. that the rewards for the difficult stuff is not anything that couldn’t be earned elsewhere, so that players who don’t care about the content don’t feel encouraged to run it regardless for the loot.

By that logic arah armor and weapons skins should drop from every dungeon and event?

Since arah is somewhat difficult, thus those skins should be obtainable at other places too, right? Wurm and Teq offer nothing that can’t be obtained elsewhere but unique skins. Every dungeon does same thing with unique skins so your point is moot.

PeterThomas.7243:

Hi.

I’m a casual player.

Events like Tequatl are completely inaccessible to a person like me.

Since the living story content seems to be following the same design principles (i.e., events that not even an entire server can hope to beat despite trying multiple times), I was wondering if there’s going to be any content that would appeal to players like me in the future, or whether this is all we have to look forward to?

Thanks.

First off, thanks for being eloquent. Secondly not all living story content is of this calibre, my compromise was make open world easy versions and instanced hard versions with altered COSMETIC rewards to show off etc. But outside of that experiencing this living story content is easy even if you never beat marionette you can still 100% the meta living story achievement, and still experience 100% of the story driven aspects like scarlet’s base and the instance in LA etc.

Trolls gotta troll

I don’t mind the hard content. I actually really enjoy the Puppet fight. I don’t like the Wurm at all. Tequatl I did several times then got bored with never winning and logged into Blackgate and won and haven’t been back. Which is the problem with a lot of the so called hard content, no one is doing it. Tequatl is pretty empty every time I’ve been there. The dungeons are empty. You can holler all you want about wanting hard content but no one is doing it so it’s a waste of money to create.

1. The Puppet is actually a fight and you can use your skills and hone them for it. The Puppet is quite fun. The Wurm is not a battle but a gizmo fest of barrels, jumping, running around with gas hearts and getting eaten by the Wurm to attack it from the inside out. It’s pretty boring at the same time it takes incredible communication between players that GW’s is not willing to support. You should not have to look outside the game for TeamSpeak or Vent. If these are that necessary to the game it should be part of the game. Timing 3 different groups to kill something in 3 different places at the same time takes incredible teamwork from people who are not used to working together. It’s a lot to ask of even a seasoned player.

2. The Puppet is fun and has graduated rewards. The more strings you cut the better the rewards. The codes fall quite a bit and you can get the cyphers and open chests. The loot could stay around a bit longer after the battle. I’ve gone back a few times only to see a drop disappear just as I get near it. The Wurm if you loose you get some ex and 73 copper. And one huge repair bill from the armor smith.

3. Rumor has it the Puppet will disappear after next week. That’s quite a shame. Better to keep the Puppet and loose the Wurm. The Puppet has some staying power and might be a nice event like SB and Claw and old Teq. The Wurm will keep people happy until the do it once or get bored. Then it will be empty.

4. I really like the open world content. The Puppet is an excellent example of good open world content and I would like to see more of this type of play. The
Wurm not so much.

By that logic arah armor and weapons skins should drop from every dungeon and event?

Sure, why not?

Ohoni.6057:

By that logic arah armor and weapons skins should drop from every dungeon and event?

Sure, why not?

Because then everybody would do “Kill the mosqitos” event in caledon forest and farm arah skins quick and with little effort while you could hear sounds of wind in arah…In one word it would kill players motivation to do various content for different rewards.

Im done discussing with you since after your last post im sure you have no clue about game design in general, let alone how reward system could/should work.

kRiza krimos.1637:

Ohoni.6057:

By that logic arah armor and weapons skins should drop from every dungeon and event?

Sure, why not?

Because then everybody would do “Kill the mosqitos” event in caledon forest and farm arah skins quick and with little effort while you could hear sounds of wind in arah…In one word it would kill players motivation to do various content for different rewards.

Ah, so people don’t do Arah because of challenge, but only for the rewards. Perhaps it’s the same with Teq and Wurm? And if so, perhaps the challenge is completely unnecessary, since (by your own words) noone is really doing those events for that?

Astralporing.1957:

kRiza krimos.1637:

Ohoni.6057:

By that logic arah armor and weapons skins should drop from every dungeon and event?

Sure, why not?

Because then everybody would do “Kill the mosqitos” event in caledon forest and farm arah skins quick and with little effort while you could hear sounds of wind in arah…In one word it would kill players motivation to do various content for different rewards.

Ah, so people don’t do Arah because of challenge, but only for the rewards. Perhaps it’s the same with Teq and Wurm? And if so, perhaps the challenge is completely unnecessary, since (by your own words) noone is really doing those events for that?

Different challenges for different rewards. Various levels of challenges for various rewards in sense of prestige and value.

If there would be option to gain same rewards for different levels of challenge people would simply go with line of least resistance and do easiest thing. Its the nature of beast.

Better stuff is what motivates people to do harder things, in general. Else, we would still live in caves…

But you don’t have to beat the Marionette. The story advances for just fighting the Marionette, even if you lose. You get loot for a partial defeat. And most of the achievements, including the meta, can be completed without defeating the Marionette.

And you if you don’t like fighting the Wardens, you can still participate in the event by helping with the lane defense.

kRiza krimos.1637:

Astralporing.1957:

kRiza krimos.1637:

Ohoni.6057:

By that logic arah armor and weapons skins should drop from every dungeon and event?

Sure, why not?

Because then everybody would do “Kill the mosqitos” event in caledon forest and farm arah skins quick and with little effort while you could hear sounds of wind in arah…In one word it would kill players motivation to do various content for different rewards.

Ah, so people don’t do Arah because of challenge, but only for the rewards. Perhaps it’s the same with Teq and Wurm? And if so, perhaps the challenge is completely unnecessary, since (by your own words) noone is really doing those events for that?

Different challenges for different rewards. Various levels of challenges for various rewards in sense of prestige and value.

If there would be option to gain same rewards for different levels of challenge people would simply go with line of least resistance and do easiest thing. Its the nature of beast.

Well, that’s the point, right? By this reasoning, the challenge itself doesn’t really matter. If people were interested in it, they would challenge themselves without the need for specific, restricted rewards – pride of doing difficult content would have been enough for them.

If it’s the challenge that matters, theres no reason for better rewards. And if it’s not about the challenge, then those events themselves are not needed.

Astralporing.1957:

kRiza krimos.1637:

Astralporing.1957:

kRiza krimos.1637:

Ohoni.6057:

By that logic arah armor and weapons skins should drop from every dungeon and event?

Sure, why not?

Because then everybody would do “Kill the mosqitos” event in caledon forest and farm arah skins quick and with little effort while you could hear sounds of wind in arah…In one word it would kill players motivation to do various content for different rewards.

Ah, so people don’t do Arah because of challenge, but only for the rewards. Perhaps it’s the same with Teq and Wurm? And if so, perhaps the challenge is completely unnecessary, since (by your own words) noone is really doing those events for that?

Different challenges for different rewards. Various levels of challenges for various rewards in sense of prestige and value.

If there would be option to gain same rewards for different levels of challenge people would simply go with line of least resistance and do easiest thing. Its the nature of beast.

Well, that’s the point, right? By this reasoning, the challenge itself doesn’t really matter. If people were interested in it, they would challenge themselves without the need for specific, restricted rewards – pride of doing difficult content would have been enough for them.

Yes i remember days when challenge was main part of fun, and games were played for different reasons. But those were days when internet and mmo-s didn’t existed. This is different time and different values are beeing promoted in games.

In regards to wurm, i personally think that there are currently people that took up on challenge and are trying to overcome it. Unlike those faint-hearthed that went to event, failed once and went to forums to complain in all their self righteousness.

But in time wurm will be on farm status like teq is on many servers.
Problem comes from those that are not willing to try harder and earn those better rewards but can’t stand someone else getting better rewards than they are…

Astralporing.1957:

If it’s the challenge that matters, theres no reason for better rewards. And if it’s not about the challenge, then those events themselves are not needed.

What you are saying goes againt basic principles of human nature. Caveman didn’t go out to kill mamooth just to prove he’s up to challenge, he did it for more meat. Bigger beast, bigger challenge, more meat – translate it to a video game and still same rule apply naturally.
Why is first place in any sport competition rewarded with most valuable metal on Earth? Even in sports where its all about overcoming challenge reward is important. Would it be cool if silver and bronze medalists start saying they want gold medals too because guy in 1st place should be competing for challange sake and not for best reward…

zwierz.9012:

Hi, I am also a casual player, I have very limited game time (job, family, hobbies etc), an I absolutely love Tequatl, fractals, and other higher difficuilty content. I see no need to cater especially for me, and bring me rewards for no effort on a golden plate!

Please continue making me work on my rewards, thank you!

ps. I managed to kill Tequatl for the first time few weeks ago. That felt good!

I am with this guy. I play less than 3 hours a day, work a full time job, and love difficult content. Marionette is the best living world patch of the entire lot as far as I’m concerned, so please bring us more like it!

Because then everybody would do “Kill the mosqitos” event in caledon forest and farm arah skins quick and with little effort while you could hear sounds of wind in arah…In one word it would kill players motivation to do various content for different rewards.

If that’s true then that’s how it should be. If nobody actually WANT to do Arah, if they only do it currently because they want Arah armor, then they shouldn’t have to do Arah. The content should justify itself, people should want to do it because it’s how they most have fun. Players shouldn’t need to be “bribed” into doing content they don’t enjoy, and cases where that is what’s happening are cases where ANet has dropped the ball on designing the content.

If there would be option to gain same rewards for different levels of challenge people would simply go with line of least resistance and do easiest thing. Its the nature of beast.

People do what they most enjoy. Let them.

Well, that’s the point, right? By this reasoning, the challenge itself doesn’t really matter. If people were interested in it, they would challenge themselves without the need for specific, restricted rewards – pride of doing difficult content would have been enough for them.

And people do. People run Teq for “best time”, even though there’s absolutely zero reward for getting the best time on this one. People attempt using complex tactics on enemies even when this isn’t necessary. I, for example, do my best to pass Claw phase 1 without taking any damage or being CCed. This is tricky, and requires careful management of cooldowns, but it can be a lot of fun, even though the reward for success is no different than if I just stood in the pack and spammed my rockets.

Challenge and fun are their own rewards, if something is fun it doesn’t need a bonus reward, but having rewards that you want, but that are locked off behind content that you don’t enjoy, that is not fun.

But in time wurm will be on farm status like teq is on many servers.

On my server Teq is a ghost town. I’ve heard rumors that it’s sometimes beaten at server reset, but I can’t play then, and any other time I’ve been there I’ve been one of 2-3 people wandering around and then we leave. I haven’t bothered in months. Prior to the tech patch, the zone hit overflow status several times a night.

Ohoni.6057:

If that’s true then that’s how it should be. If nobody actually WANT to do Arah, if they only do it currently because they want Arah armor, then they shouldn’t have to do Arah. The content should justify itself, people should want to do it because it’s how they most have fun. Players shouldn’t need to be “bribed” into doing content they don’t enjoy, and cases where that is what’s happening are cases where ANet has dropped the ball on designing the content.

People will never want same things. Some of them will want to master soloing arah so they could sell runs. Others will want to buy spot just to collect chest and tokens, other guy will buy it because he want dungeon master title but dont want to play it or can’t find party. Some people will run it because they enjoy it…
But point im trying to bring across to you is that anything arah should be obtainable in arah. Logic dictates that.

Ohoni.6057:

People do what they most enjoy. Let them.

By all means. But if I enjoy gathering I shouldn’t be expecting arah armor piece. Different rewards for different activities, whats so hard to understand about that? Afterall, variety is spice of life.

Ohoni.6057:

On my server Teq is a ghost town. I’ve heard rumors that it’s sometimes beaten at server reset, but I can’t play then, and any other time I’ve been there I’ve been one of 2-3 people wandering around and then we leave. I haven’t bothered in months. Prior to the tech patch, the zone hit overflow status several times a night.

Prior to patch, do you think people did tequatl because it was fun or because it was easy chest and as such fitted into world boss farming tour?

Some quick comments here.

No, tequatl level content isn’t what the majority of the player base wants… which is why most of the living story content doesn’t have it in the first place.

So far we only have two tequatl level bosses, Wurm and Tequatl itself (I’m not counting marionette because I feel it’s considerably easier, I’d put the difficulty somewhere between Golem Mark II and Tequatl, but without reaching the second one by far). Personally I feel the living stories a nice mix of different playstyles so far.

Not all people want tequatl level difficulty… but some want it, which is why we have the new tequatl and the wurm. Other people like mindless zerging (queen’s pavillion and scarlett’s invasions), others like jumping puzzles (secret base, skipping stones and so on), others like open world exploration (bazaar), some others like dungeons (TA aetherblade path, weapons facility, aetherblade retreat), fractals (weapons facility, thaumanova explosion, aetherblade retreat), other like just silly stuff (SAB, halloween) or solo challenges (SAB, queen’s gauntlet) and so on.

Actually I’d say that so far the one aspect of the game that hasn’t been touched in previous patches is new WvW content (sPvP at least got a new map), but seems that next patch will have that.

And on a more personal level… special congratulations to the team that did the marionette fight, it’s the most fun I’ve had in the game since the early days when everything was new…

PeterThomas.7243:

I was wondering if there’s going to be any content that would appeal to players like me in the future, or whether this is all we have to look forward to?

Sure, try literally every other piece of PVE content in the game which can be beaten by mashing your face against the keyboard.

Ok I exaggerate, some dungeons require you to heal and dodge too.

Immensus.9732:

first of all there are indeed people like you casuals, but also people like me hardcore, why everything should be about you and not me too? second 2 bosses and maybe fractals that i consider the only hardcore content is only 5% of the whole game, everything else is for casuals. complaining about that is just selfish

Very true! people are forgetting that there still are hc players who want hard things to enjoy the game. The new world boss style is lovely, its hard, but its epic. Or do all people want Zhaitans fight style bosses? me not..

BTW Its not that hard (for casual player) to guest on a server where Tequatl is slain every day 5×.

I suspect the next Elder Dragon fight will be open world. It will be a large fight that will utilize some of the techniques that were originally used in these initial large scale battles.

DarcShriek.5829:

I suspect the next Elder Dragon fight will be open world. It will be a large fight that will utilize some of the techniques that were originally used in these initial large scale battles.

My biggest hopes!
cant wait for next elder.

People will never want same things. Some of them will want to master soloing arah so they could sell runs. Others will want to buy spot just to collect chest and tokens, other guy will buy it because he want dungeon master title but dont want to play it or can’t find party. Some people will run it because they enjoy it…
But point im trying to bring across to you is that anything arah should be obtainable in arah. Logic dictates that.

Sure, but that doesn’t mean that Arah gear should necessarily ONLY come from Arah. Personally I don’t care either way because there aren’t any Arah pieces I find interesting, I’ve never run Explore mode on it and don’t care to, but if someone does want Arah gear but does not enjoy Arah content, I would have no problem with them getting the gear through some other method.

People don’t have to want the same thing, so long as everyone gets what they want. If one person enjoys running Arah, let him. If one person wants Arah gear, let him have it. The only one who shouldn’t get what he wants is someone who doesn’t want the other player to be happy.

By all means. But if I enjoy gathering I shouldn’t be expecting arah armor piece. Different rewards for different activities, whats so hard to understand about that? Afterall, variety is spice of life.

Having different rewards is variety, enforcing different activities to receive them is not. Whether people choose to participate in a variety of experiences should depend on whether they enjoy a variety of experiences.

Anyways, I think we’re moving past the point a bit, the point is, the inconvenient events like Teq and the Wurm should not offer rewards that are unique or in more generous quantities than other, more convenient events. If you want Sunless weapons and Wurmslayer armor, there need to be more convenient methods for earning them.

Prior to patch, do you think people did tequatl because it was fun or because it was easy chest and as such fitted into world boss farming tour?

I won’t speculate, the important thing is that they did it, the zone wasn’t a ghost town. Speaking for myself, I enjoyed it well enough, and the loot was solid. Ideally, best case scenario, they would merge the two. Remove the timer or extend it so that time out were very rare. Scale the HP equivalent to Shatterers so that whatever group shows up stands a decent chance of being able to DPS it down. Leave in all the other new mechanics though, the cannon defenses, the waves, all that stuff. Doing that I think would be the best of both worlds, it would be a more interesting encounter, but also a more achievable encounter, and I think they’d find that it was being run on EVERY server, at least several times per day.

Myst Dawnbringer.9138:

2. The Puppet is fun and has graduated rewards. The more strings you cut the better the rewards. The codes fall quite a bit and you can get the cyphers and open chests. The loot could stay around a bit longer after the battle. I’ve gone back a few times only to see a drop disappear just as I get near it. The Wurm if you loose you get some ex and 73 copper. And one huge repair bill from the armor smith.

Wurm is graduated as well but the minimum is taking down one head.

3. Rumor has it the Puppet will disappear after next week. That’s quite a shame. Better to keep the Puppet and loose the Wurm. The Puppet has some staying power and might be a nice event like SB and Claw and old Teq. The Wurm will keep people happy until the do it once or get bored. Then it will be empty.

It is is staying for at least another 2 weeks.
http://massively.joystiq.com/2014/01/28/journey-to-the-edge-of-the-mists-in-guild-wars-2s-next-content/
“If the Edge of the Mists isn’t your thing, don’t fret; Scarlet will be continuing to test the Twisted Marionette in Lornar’s Pass.”

Immensus.9732:

Immensus.9732:

first of all there are indeed people like you casuals, but also people like me hardcore, why everything should be about you and not me too? second 2 bosses and maybe fractals that i consider the only hardcore content is only 5% of the whole game, everything else is for casuals. complaining about that is just selfish

Very true! people are forgetting that there still are hc players who want hard things to enjoy the game. The new world boss style is lovely, its hard, but its epic. Or do all people want Zhaitans fight style bosses? me not..

BTW Its not that hard (for casual player) to guest on a server where Tequatl is slain every day 5×.

I find Tequatl and the new wurm to be about the same as the Zhaitan fight. The only difference is the number of participants required.

Khisanth.2948:

I find Tequatl and the new wurm to be about the same as the Zhaitan fight. The only difference is the number of participants required.

These forums never stop surprising me.

10/10 would browse.

Canakun.8031:

Well, this is the second Living Story update that has featured raid-style open world content designed as end game goals for large guilds out of like…20 Living Story updates in total which all included casual solo/5-man content, story instances and fetch quests so…I think it’s safe to say there will be more content catered to you in the future…
9/10 patches, presumably.

Raid content for large guilds should in no way be connected to Living Story content. One of the most obvious lessons they should have learned over the last year is never, ever create a Living Story story-line that’s accessible by the masses, then pull a bait-and-switch at the end, robbing the masses of proper closure due to final events being gated by hard-core requirements.

The Arenanet that created the game at launch was genius. The Arenanet creating content over the last year are a pale shadow in comparison.

I saw in a recent interview that even though they sense the rumblings, the game will have to continue to slide for another year before they would be forced to sit down, shelve Living Story and do something entirely different.

Scarlet seems to believe that the only way to save Tyria is to Destroy it. I’m sadly coming to the realization that the only way to save this game’s future may be for it to find the brink of failure.

I don’t know how hard the earth beneath ANet’s feet will need to shake and how big the overhaul will need to be, but it’s sadly becoming clear that the status quo is leading the game toward oblivion.

Not all content is aimed at entire player base. Its only a small minority of the games players who like Raids. The marionette isn’t challenging content. The only challenges in the finding the number of people needed for the fight. Event entry needs an easily to use system than chancing across the right overflow.