Guild Wars 2

A thought that suddenly came out of my mind. Is the finale of this season introduce the villain for the next season ?

The devs have stated before that this LW season is not going to include dragon (if somebody can find the ref, it would be nice since I failed). We also know that the next LW season is likely to include dragons.

However there are evidences that scarlet is controled by a dragon (you mess up with chaos/dragon energy and a creepy thing communicates with you using images of destruction, sounds like dragon to me).

What if after the defeat of Scarlet, we do get hints about the entity that controlled her and go after in the next LW season ?

Prod.3610:

I think there is are some pictures missing from this discussion so far (below).
In my opinion in picture 1 on the left on the table shows that scarlet is indeed searching for something (i think physical) underground.

Also i like the picture lying under the table because it is somehow giving off this sense of dread. It could be a cave/opening or it could be a maw.?
Generally black does not seem to be a good color. Dark vortex in the middle of the writing-spiral anyone? also red seems to confront black on some pictures.

I think there is something to be found if we look at all of scarlets pictures, so here are my thoughts on them:
First there is the (pale) tree strangled by Scarlets red vines (see ‘what scarlet saw’/her dream) although it seems strange to me that the pale tree would be painted as a palm-tree.

Then there is the picture that just looks like scramble but if you look closer the red scrambles are again thorns and the black things look like blood oozing from whatever is stung by the thorns. i wonder why this one exists and if there is more to it.

The eye the red eye in darkness. Now she talks about this in the journal and i think the abyss and the power within was why she wanted to look behind reality, because she wanted to find out what that power is and after she found out (still inside the dream) she changed her name and her ‘color’ to red. So basically what this makes me think is ‘red eye => scarlet’ = she adopted the color/thinking of whatever looms in the darkness and now does its bidding, which turned her against the pale tree.

But what does this mean, is she now a slave of primordius? is she maybe not searching for him but maybe for the roots of the pale tree, which in my thinking could stretch across the whole globe (as the pale tree is a kind of life-tree/mana-tree) and maybe strangle primordius?

I kind of do not want to subscribe to that theory because scarlet to me always seemed more like the “i need to do this to stop something bad (there is no other way) even if it means killing millions of ppl” kind of guy and serving someone just does not seem like her style, but there is something more disturbing that i found while looking around for more subtle hints:

Warning:
Now this could be complete ‘bs’ but i can not unsee it. It could be a coincidence and i could totally waste your time but if you are willing to bare with me look at picture 3 the ‘dragon’ looks very odd to me in the middle, almost broken, not like a real dragon, to me it looks like the top half is something else something with 2 hands that looks kind of humanoid and also the whole painting is in red, not that red has to mean scarlet but i grew fond of that idea.

Maybe scarlet found out the pale tree is a dragon and turned the minion-master link around and enslaved it (symbolized by entangling it with red vines) which means she now has the power of a dragon/is a half dragon. This would explain why the pale tree did not ask us for help or tell us about scarlet yet.

Ok it is much to late and 90% of what is up there probably does not make sense or does not mean anything but i just thought let’s be a little creative and show it to ppl and let them figure out if anything and what it means… ^^

I don’t think the Pale Tree can be an elder dragon since in one of of sylvari’s personal story, we encountered a sylvari from another pale tree.

BrunoBRS.5178:

Shadoekin.3928:

Still rooting for Abaddon to be the source of her madness and the thing staring back at her through the void.

After all if Anet almost had an Abaddon fractal, they probably already have all the assets for him and got some story link for him to GW2…somewhere.

Also his spheres were that of magic and knowledge, so it kinda fits.

1- abaddon is dead. not banished, not hiding, dead. i, and millions of others, made sure of it.

2- the abaddon fractal was going to take place far, far before GW1’s playable time, all the way back when abaddon was defeated and sealed by the other 5 human gods. there is no way that anything related to scarlet could be related to that fractal.

3- they didn’t start working on the fractal until the voting was over. they didn’t have any assets lying around.

Hahah, yes I’m still sore about Kormir ascended to godhood :P
But just for laughs and giggles, Abaddon was a god of secrets. So who know what secret knowledge he had, maybe he’s not completely dead after all.

lnguy.5127:

Prod.3610:

I think there is are some pictures missing from this discussion so far (below).
In my opinion in picture 1 on the left on the table shows that scarlet is indeed searching for something (i think physical) underground.

Also i like the picture lying under the table because it is somehow giving off this sense of dread. It could be a cave/opening or it could be a maw.?
Generally black does not seem to be a good color. Dark vortex in the middle of the writing-spiral anyone? also red seems to confront black on some pictures.

I think there is something to be found if we look at all of scarlets pictures, so here are my thoughts on them:
First there is the (pale) tree strangled by Scarlets red vines (see ‘what scarlet saw’/her dream) although it seems strange to me that the pale tree would be painted as a palm-tree.

Then there is the picture that just looks like scramble but if you look closer the red scrambles are again thorns and the black things look like blood oozing from whatever is stung by the thorns. i wonder why this one exists and if there is more to it.

The eye the red eye in darkness. Now she talks about this in the journal and i think the abyss and the power within was why she wanted to look behind reality, because she wanted to find out what that power is and after she found out (still inside the dream) she changed her name and her ‘color’ to red. So basically what this makes me think is ‘red eye => scarlet’ = she adopted the color/thinking of whatever looms in the darkness and now does its bidding, which turned her against the pale tree.

But what does this mean, is she now a slave of primordius? is she maybe not searching for him but maybe for the roots of the pale tree, which in my thinking could stretch across the whole globe (as the pale tree is a kind of life-tree/mana-tree) and maybe strangle primordius?

I kind of do not want to subscribe to that theory because scarlet to me always seemed more like the “i need to do this to stop something bad (there is no other way) even if it means killing millions of ppl” kind of guy and serving someone just does not seem like her style, but there is something more disturbing that i found while looking around for more subtle hints:

Warning:
Now this could be complete ‘bs’ but i can not unsee it. It could be a coincidence and i could totally waste your time but if you are willing to bare with me look at picture 3 the ‘dragon’ looks very odd to me in the middle, almost broken, not like a real dragon, to me it looks like the top half is something else something with 2 hands that looks kind of humanoid and also the whole painting is in red, not that red has to mean scarlet but i grew fond of that idea.

Maybe scarlet found out the pale tree is a dragon and turned the minion-master link around and enslaved it (symbolized by entangling it with red vines) which means she now has the power of a dragon/is a half dragon. This would explain why the pale tree did not ask us for help or tell us about scarlet yet.

Ok it is much to late and 90% of what is up there probably does not make sense or does not mean anything but i just thought let’s be a little creative and show it to ppl and let them figure out if anything and what it means… ^^

I don’t think the Pale Tree can be an elder dragon since in one of of sylvari’s personal story, we encountered a sylvari from another pale tree.

She’s not the elder dragon itself but she is probably one of its minion, as i posted before:
“The seed which sprouted the Pale Tree was found in a cave containing many others like it, guarded by powerful plant creatures”
The powerful plant creatures could be minions of the jungle dragon too, which is highly probable

Back when Scarlet was revealed, the text that got posted on the site suggested that Scarlet saw both the pale tree and the nightmare court as constricting the freedoms of sylvari. And so she set out to find a way to disconnect the hold they had.

It would not surprise me if she discovered that both were aspects of the jungle dragons power, and the events so far are a run up to taking the fight to it.

There is also a sylvari personal story path that present you with the possibility that there are other sylvari communities out there, independent of the pale tree we know.

All in all i hope this means we will see the game expand westwards soon.

Ph’nglui mglw’nafh Scarlet R’lyeh wgah’nagl fhtan.

My prediction: Insanity and dreams? Scarlet is possessed by an elder god, of the Lovecraftian sort. The end of the story will involve an exorcism of some sort, and likely her committing suicide in an act of redemption once she comes to her senses.

To create a link between Mordremoth and the Pale Tree would make HUGE consequences about all the sylvari storyline. This race would not be same as before.
I think it’s a bit dangerous to change an entire race.

But you can imagine a link between Mordremoth and another Pale Tree. Malyck’s one for example. If a dragon can corrupt everything around him during its sleep, Mordremoth could, why not, corrupt this other Pale Tree.

Following on from pale tree dragon link. For a consistency the sylvari player race and role as heroes in Tyria has to remain.

So a potential plot is the seed collection was a pool of resources left by the last passing of mordremoth. The seeds would grow trees that would act a supply of troops, differing forms grown to requirement for war (giants, hounds, humanoids and more).

The pale trees seed taken and grown under the fateful influence of the Tablets altered the consciousness of the Pale tree before Mordremoth’s influence was felt (from awakening). the tree knew its creator, and original purpose, and revolted as it was raised on the ethics of the tablets. So all the minions to be created were instead created to fight the dragon(s) they are the sylvari player race.

Mordremoth is a creature of sleep and dreams and much as the jungle dragon. The Pale Tree’s dream is aa education and also a shield against mordremoth influence. Sylvari seperated from that dream are then exposed eventually to mordremoth design, Nightmare court is a foreshadow to that, albeit without the direct influence as mordremoth is unable to command strongly yet.

The dragon could however trigger the loyalty in scarlet, who without the pale tree dream was exposed when she reached closer to where mordremoths consciousness reside (her journals abyss for want of a better term) in the eternal alchemy experiment.

Perhaps Omadd knew more of sylvari and dragon link, using scarlet as a tool to tap into dragon power.

Steel Fenrir.2791:

I noticed there’s a pin in the Tyrian map in Scarlett’s lair.

oddly enough this ?accidental drop on the map seems to run from the aethervolt lab to the luminates power plant.. the plant uses arcane energy and they are planning architecture for a better rata sum.. the aethervolt lab has an asuran who says they prefer the elements, and it would be wonderful to harness Steam.. there’s a disfunctional asura gate at that facility

I think a lot of people are going wrong in trying to predict the ending. We shouldn’t be looking at what we know, but also what we don’t know.

I think the election plays more of a part in this than we realize. While anet came out and said “its to decide a small boon and what fractal is released” the last part is the key. The choices were the reactor and the fall of abaddon. And what did we see happen in the reactor? Scarlet was involved.

So, think about it. Chances are Anet had this all planned to the end (by the way they have been giddy about this and telling us to ‘just wait’) even before the election was over. In other words, the election was us given the choice of what piece of the puzzle we were given to the LS. If Evon had won, the current story would still be going on, but we would be asking, “what are with these towers?! What do they mean?!”

The only thing I can think of that could have been given from that fractal is something said by the gods, either about the eternal alchemy or the dragons.

Next is about the eternal alchemy itself. To quote the wiki:

" Those that believe in the Eternal Alchemy believe that all beings, even the human gods, contribute to some greater purpose. There are many different aspects to the Eternal Alchemy, such as the aspect of chaos and strife which the Zaishen Order follows. It is believed that even magic is just another component in the Eternal Alchemy."

Scarlet stared into the abyss of the eternal alchemy, and it stared back. So something was powerful enough to hide itself inside the depths of the eternal alchemy. I like to think of the EA as a hollow cylinder lined by gears, the further down you go, the older the gears. So, if it was something in its depths, it is VERY old. Maybe a new force we never knew.

As for the Primordius theory, I now doubt it is him, Why?

" The asura refugees united with the dwarves, as well as the norn and Ebon Vanguard, to strike at the heart of the destroyer army, defeating the Great Destroyer and delaying the awakening of Primordus until 1120 AE." Zhaiten awoke in 1219 AE. So Primordus is already awakened apparently.

“Another dragon awoke in the deepest parts of the seas, creating tentacled horrors from its surrounding. Its awakening forced the krait, quaggan, and largos living in the Unending Ocean to flee north toward Tyria, in many cases forcing them into the path of the risen armies.” – sorry apparently it can’t be Bubbles either.

On to the assassination, Scarlet wanted Mai Trin on the council, hence the kill. Most likely reasoning to weaken LA’s defenses or attack from within.

Lets move on to Twilight Assault, where there is still an unfinished mini story here. Scarlet knows some of Caithe’s dark secrets, and Caithe even seems to confirm that she has done some things in her past she doesn’t want to talk about. Scarlet even had plans on how to use caithe (perhaps also corrupt and make her go mad?).

Now there is Scarlet’s journal. First, when was it written? Before or after she stared into the eternal alchemy? I assume after, but then I am confused once again. See, once she emerged from the machine that supposedly helped her see into the eternal alchemy, what did she do? Kill her mentor, which btw, was Omadd. What was scarlet’s password? O-M-A-D-D. So, perhaps after first emerging from the machine, she was mad (Ala Lazurus pit) and clarity soon took over, realizing what she had done. Then hence the nightmares, etc.

Finally, E. I think we’ve only heard of her twice from her (as a player). And she seemed to know a lot with ‘circumstances preventing her from stopping it herself’. So lets throw this out there. What if E is the last bit of Sanity left inside Scarlet, trying to help the players before her madness retakes over?

Serophous.9085:

Finally, E. I think we’ve only heard of her twice from her (as a player). And she seemed to know a lot with ‘circumstances preventing her from stopping it herself’. So lets throw this out there. What if E is the last bit of Sanity left inside Scarlet, trying to help the players before her madness retakes over?

That just blew my mind.

I am beginning to think the ire and hatred that the players have/had for Scarlet is something that Anet has cultivated.

Serophous.9085:

Finally, E. I think we’ve only heard of her twice from her (as a player). And she seemed to know a lot with ‘circumstances preventing her from stopping it herself’. So lets throw this out there. What if E is the last bit of Sanity left inside Scarlet, trying to help the players before her madness retakes over?

I like the idea behind this theory, but I don’t think so. I think that E is someone who is working closely with Scarlet and is now realizing that what she is doing (and what she has done) is going to be catastrophic for the races. Therefore, they are trying to help without Scarlet’s knowledge.

There is always the possibility that there never was a Scarlet and she’s been an illusion (literally) perpetrated by (insert evildoer here) in order to interact with Tyria and cause chaos while it prepares to “awaken”…

I’m wondering why nobody questioned voice in the trailer;

In GW1 Proph. there was a cutscene after your Ascention with strange new voice… later player meets a Seer – voice’s owner.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dVHeDsmXXU&list=PLB1119178EFFE26FD&feature=player_detailpage#t=430 (7:30)

In recently shown trailer we can also hear new interesting voice narration. What does it tell to us?
-Scarlet has a plan (and designs of some kind)
-She wants to succed, but we are NOT her target (“She will succeed at all costs, even if she has to kill every last one of you”)
-So, what exactly does she want? What is she aiming at?

And most importantly, whos that voice?
Not a dragon – that we know for sure from devs
Abaddon? Actually, why not? Yes, we’ve defeated him in Nightfall and Kormir absorbed his power but…
What if we only weakened Abaddon enough to let Kormir absorb his power and what’s left of him is some kind of humanoidal being? A person with ancient knowledge, not possessed by madness anymore?

Okay, and what’s on that picture below? Dominion of Tengu. And Destroyers. Any clues how could we connect that to current LS?

lnguy.5127:

2. The Pale Tree could be Modremoth champion, might have fallen off of Modremoth’s path due to the influence from Ventari’s teachings.

No it couldn’t. The Elder Dragons existed long before the Pale Tree even came into existence, and have been sleeping ever since. Somewhere before they started awakening, Ronan found a cave with seeds, and took one with him, which he planted in what is now the Grove (Arbor Bay back then). It is only years after the seed had been planted, that the Elder Dragons started awakening, starting with Primordus.

So how could the Pale Tree possibly be a dragon champion?

If Mordremoth was still asleep, like all Elder Dragons, how could Ronan find a seed belonging to Mordremoth? Are Elder Dragons just spawning new champions while they are asleep? And were all these seeds potential champions of Mordremoth? In which case, how did Ronan and Ventari give this champion free will? They didn’t do any special magical rituals. All they did was plant the seed symbolically, and then write a marble tablet. It was their attitudes and philosophy that affected the Pale Tree…. but that is not enough to liberate a Dragon Champion from its master!

If that were the case, why aren’t we all crafting our own marble tablets with words of peace and harmony, and liberating the Claw of Jormag, or Tequatl? If it were that easy to turn a dedicated servant of one of the Elder Dragons from evil to good, it would kind of make a mockery out of the Elder Dragons and their powers.

Once someone serves an Elder Dragon, it takes considerable magic to free them, as we know from when Glint was liberated. It is not something that can simply be undone. Jora had to kill her brother to free him, it was the only way. The Pale Tree cannot be a champion of Mordremoth.

For this very same reason, the Pale Tree can also not be an Elder Dragon itself. That was simply a hypothesis put forward by WoodenPotatoes and his videos, who reads a lot of lore discussions and borrows from them. He is however not as knowledgeable about lore as the lore community. But this theory has been shot down multiple times.

Nature is season based. As such the seeds found could be preparation for the next awakening (season). But by planting one ahead of time it was allowed to sprout before the dragon could assert it control.

digiowl.9620:

Nature is season based. As such the seeds found could be preparation for the next awakening (season). But by planting one ahead of time it was allowed to sprout before the dragon could assert it control.

If an Elder Dragon spawns seeds, they are already corrupted. Jormag did not need to awake, to allow his champion to corrupt the mind of Svanir for example. And Primordus was quite capable of awakening The Great Destroyer first, and having him a build an army of dedicated servants. The Elder Dragons do not need to be awake yet to assert control over creatures.

Scarlet’s secret lair is a wunderful place to forge some theories. I like that.
Did anyone notice the two cages in it? I reeeaaally wonder who or what was locked in them…

Clyan.1593:

Scarlet’s secret lair is a wunderful place to forge some theories. I like that.
Did anyone notice the two cages in it? I reeeaaally wonder who or what was locked in them…

I was wondering the same thing. I think, that perhaps she kept test subjects in them, to test her poison. But it probably killed them. It has to have been something small. Quaggans, Skritt, Hylek?

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Clyan.1593:

Scarlet’s secret lair is a wunderful place to forge some theories. I like that.
Did anyone notice the two cages in it? I reeeaaally wonder who or what was locked in them…

I was wondering the same thing. I think, that perhaps she kept test subjects in them, to test her poison. But it probably killed them. It has to have been something small. Quaggans, Skritt, Hylek?

Asura? ^^

Edit: We don’t know where Taimi comes from. What if she’s Scarlet’s spy or something like that to infiltrate Destinys Edge 2.0? That would explain why she claim’s to know Braham while he denies it… At least there are no corpses, so i don’t think the prisoners died.

scarlet specifically states in her tower of nightmares cutscene that lion’s arch will be talking about the dragon bash incident for generations.. so if she doesn’t intend to annihilate lion’s arch and the three orders, what are the arrows and X’s for?

The Xs are for : the durmand priory HQ, the island of the chantry of secrets, the Vigil’s fort and the FotM portal.

VodCom.6924:

and the FotM portal.

How did you come to the conclusion of that last one?

Look on the map, it’s right next to fort marriner on the west.

It’s a pretty vague map, and the cross seems to be all over Lion’s Arch. It’s kind of hard to say that it is pointing out the FotM portal specifically.

The idea that the pale tree is the result of a seed intended for dragon minions makes sense, and I agree that it is probably Mordremoth. The Nightmare Court / Mother dichotomy is a nature / nurture thing. The Mother sees her role as fighting the dark influence by controlling the pale tree’s children, whereas the Nightmare court are either wittingly or not preparing to serve a new master, the dragon.

Scarlet’s plan is to somehow remove the dragon’s influence, possibly by killing it. I also have a feeling that the Mother is intended to be a Champion, and is linked to the dragon, and that what Scarlet intends to do to the dragon won’t be good for the Mother. If successful the Sylvari would lose both the malignant influence of the dragon and the gentle guidance of the mother. Scarlet intends to fill that void.

That is what I think Scarlet plans, I am not sure how things will pan out, but I am pretty sure that we will have another dragon awake by the end.

As for Taimi, I think that there is a fair chance that she is Omadd’s daughter.

As to which of the new characters will die, my money is on Braham, with Rox being busy with her warband at the time and unable to save him. For paralleling the Destiny’s Edge storyline this would put Rytlock in Queen Jennah’s role.

Abaddon is dead. Dead.

However, that doesn’t mean his evil, twin-brother, “Adaddon” can’t make an appearence!

Cormac.3871:

The idea that the pale tree is the result of a seed intended for dragon minions makes sense, and I agree that it is probably Mordremoth. The Nightmare Court / Mother dichotomy is a nature / nurture thing. The Mother sees her role as fighting the dark influence by controlling the pale tree’s children, whereas the Nightmare court are either wittingly or not preparing to serve a new master, the dragon.

Scarlet’s plan is to somehow remove the dragon’s influence, possibly by killing it. I also have a feeling that the Mother is intended to be a Champion, and is linked to the dragon, and that what Scarlet intends to do to the dragon won’t be good for the Mother. If successful the Sylvari would lose both the malignant influence of the dragon and the gentle guidance of the mother. Scarlet intends to fill that void.

Freeing a Dragon Champion from it’s link to an Elder Dragon requires considerable magic, and a rare ritual that only the Forgotten know of. Which is something that never happened to the Pale Tree or its seed, as far as we know.

Plus Sylvari can’t be corrupted, while we know that dragon minions CAN be corrupted by other dragons. So they aren’t dragon minions. It’s as simple as that.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Freeing a Dragon Champion from it’s link to an Elder Dragon requires considerable magic, and a rare ritual that only the Forgotten know of. Which is something that never happened to the Pale Tree or its seed, as far as we know.

Plus Sylvari can’t be corrupted, while we know that dragon minions CAN be corrupted by other dragons. So they aren’t dragon minions. It’s as simple as that.

I didn’t say that the sylvari were minions, I said that they were intended to be such. Just as I didn’t say that the mother tree was the champion, just that she was intended to be. I may well be wrong about the pale tree being the champion, or indeed all of what I said, but I find neither of these objections particularly compelling.

It has come to me that there is so many possibilities of what or whom may be behind the scarlet plot.
I am taking back all the dragon theories because of the promotional video that Anet sent, the big darkish voice that we are hearing has been confirmed that was not dragon related. And the voice seem to be in favor of scarlet’s plan, wich we don’t know exactly what it is. But, mainly, the character want scarlet to succeed. Some people point out that scarlet has been only attacking human settlements (LA, Divinity’s reach and such.). To me, that rings a bell, it might be a anti-human entity that wants those gone from Tyria.
If we recall Gw1 franchise, we had Abbaddon, Dhuum, Menzies, that were all connected one to an other for a god war in-between humans god and elder god (yes i’m not using older on purpose). We can eliminate Abbaddon as, Kormir took his place with power and such in Gw1: Nightfall. I’ll concentrate on Menzies and here’s why. In the lore Menzies is the half-brother of Balthazar, whom wanted to take all the Fissure of Woe realm for himself (pre-dating Exodus and such). Why am I focusing on Menzies instead of other? Because Menzies is the Lord Of Destruction. ( here’s the quoting from wiki ) “Menzies the Mad, also known as the Lord of Destruction, is the evil half-brother of Balthazar. Though never seen, he commands the Shadow Army and other shadow related creatures such as the Darkness.” Notice connection between the darkness and chaos from Menzies and the “darkness” scarlet has encountered when she was in the Eternal Alchemy. That is highly linked to the “madness” Scarlet has gone into. Scarlet was destroying everything and still want to destroy everything. Take for Example the Thaumanova Reactor, it blew up. The tower of nightmare was also destroyed.
Second of all, when scarlet was in the Eternal Alchemy, she saw red thorns growing up the Pale Tree. Those thorn were red, scarlet red to be more precise. If you recall going into the Fissure Of Woe, you can’t deny the fact the everything is point out to the color red, even the Eternal forge was red/obsidian colored. That said, Menzies is part of the mist, witch in turn is part of the Eternal Alchemy.
The Eternal Alchemy is, by definition, containing all the entities. Now, here comes the wierd part! The Eternal Alchemy, I believe is part The Rift. Why? :
“In the middle of The Mists is a spot where time moves neither forward nor back. It is a tear in the fabric of the cosmos, the point of perfect balance between all forces of the universe. This place is known as the Rift, and there is nothing to which it does not connect, nothing that cannot be reached from inside it. Those who have the know-how to travel across the universe through the Mists must pass through the Rift on their way to all other places. It is the center of all things.”
That is why I think Menzie is more likely to be the one behind it all. While not every thing is pointed to Dhuum, he still could be the one who might have corrupted Scarlet. He’s also a god of death and darkness. They are powerful, old entities that can travel through realms. They are even able to send minions in-between realm, remember the Tombs of The Primeval Kings, Menzies sent The Darknesses over in the Hall of Heroes. The only thing that can pin-point to Dhuum is the fact the marionnette is closed to a place called reaper’s gate wich is a temple to Grenth. “It holds a statue within that once allowed access to the Underworld and is now overrun with creatures from the Mists.”. It can’t be a coincidence!
Share you’re thoughs on that theorie!

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Plus Sylvari can’t be corrupted, while we know that dragon minions CAN be corrupted by other dragons. So they aren’t dragon minions. It’s as simple as that.

Can they? From what i remember it’s the other way around – the only beings that are immune to (new) corruption are servants of the Dragons. And Sylvari.

Can’t say why all of this remembers me something like this:

http://wiki.guildwars.com/images/d/d7/%22Varesh%22_wallpaper.jpg
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Varesh_Ossa

and this:

http://wiki.guildwars.com/images/4/4e/%22Shiro%22_wallpaper.jpg
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Shiro_Tagachi

All great characters driven mad by demons and gods.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

lnguy.5127:

2. The Pale Tree could be Modremoth champion, might have fallen off of Modremoth’s path due to the influence from Ventari’s teachings.

No it couldn’t. The Elder Dragons existed long before the Pale Tree even came into existence, and have been sleeping ever since. Somewhere before they started awakening, Ronan found a cave with seeds, and took one with him, which he planted in what is now the Grove (Arbor Bay back then). It is only years after the seed had been planted, that the Elder Dragons started awakening, starting with Primordus.

So how could the Pale Tree possibly be a dragon champion?

If Mordremoth was still asleep, like all Elder Dragons, how could Ronan find a seed belonging to Mordremoth? Are Elder Dragons just spawning new champions while they are asleep?

Yes. We know for a fact that the Elder Dragons have at least some portion of their champions spawn / awaken before they do so they can gather magical energy and awaken their master. Which is what Primordus did with the Great Destroyer. And this is also why Primordus took so long to fully awaken. The champion that was supposed to awaken it was destroyed and this delayed its awakening for 42 years. The dragon champions do not necessarily sleep alongside their Elder Dragons. Glint is an example of this.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

And were all these seeds potential champions of Mordremoth? In which case, how did Ronan and Ventari give this champion free will? They didn’t do any special magical rituals. All they did was plant the seed symbolically, and then write a marble tablet. It was their attitudes and philosophy that affected the Pale Tree…. but that is not enough to liberate a Dragon Champion from its master!

If that were the case, why aren’t we all crafting our own marble tablets with words of peace and harmony, and liberating the Claw of Jormag, or Tequatl? If it were that easy to turn a dedicated servant of one of the Elder Dragons from evil to good, it would kind of make a mockery out of the Elder Dragons and their powers.

Once someone serves an Elder Dragon, it takes considerable magic to free them, as we know from when Glint was liberated. It is not something that can simply be undone. Jora had to kill her brother to free him, it was the only way. The Pale Tree cannot be a champion of Mordremoth.

For this very same reason, the Pale Tree can also not be an Elder Dragon itself. That was simply a hypothesis put forward by WoodenPotatoes and his videos, who reads a lot of lore discussions and borrows from them. He is however not as knowledgeable about lore as the lore community. But this theory has been shot down multiple times.

The pale tree spent 250 years absorbing the hopes, dreams, thoughts and beliefs of the people that lived around it. It wasn’t as simple as “Carve a marble tablet.” It also didn’t necessarily take as we see with the Nightmare Court.

The fact of the matter is that we don’t know what the Pale Tree is. But we do know that it is extremely protective of its true nature. We saw the Pale Tree outright begging Scarlett to not learn its true nature. If the Pale Tree were just some magical tree, or even some sort of planet antibody against the Elder Dragons, it would not be so protective of its true nature. The fact of the matter is that the Pale Tree clearly has something dark or embarrassing about its true nature that it wants to hide. Being a champion of an Elder Dragon would fit in with that.

Agree, the Pale Tree is way much similiar to Glint.

i could just as easily propose that the pale tree is a “champion” of melandru as much as it “could be” an “intended” champion of dragon corruption

Why is there a thumper in LA do you guys think? Attack and destruction of LA imminent?

this topic is a bit too large to search through and the search is not working great here..

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Plus Sylvari can’t be corrupted, while we know that dragon minions CAN be corrupted by other dragons. So they aren’t dragon minions. It’s as simple as that.

You’re wrong. Neither the Sylvari or Dragon Minions can be corrupted by other dragons. They are the only known example of creatures with this trait.

cheshirefox.7026:

i could just as easily propose that the pale tree is a “champion” of melandru as much as it “could be” an “intended” champion of dragon corruption

The gods officially left the world and all intervention within it back at the end of Nightfall. They aren’t active agents in the world anymore. The Elder Dragons are.

Someone mentioned it earlier so I’ll throw it out once again.
The trailer voice for The Origins of Madness makes it clear that whatever speculations has been brought up throughout this thread contradicts what the trailer has to say.

And here’s why.
Okay so the trailer has just a few sentences but it is enough.(for me)
-She has grand designs
Even if she is mad, grand designs shouldn’t be taken lightly. Attacking Pale Tree feels waaay to weak to be called as a grand design. However, if it is the goal the way she is going to do it is what will make people hopefully drop their jaws for. Keep this in mind that the Pale Tree is too important to the PS and even creation to new sylvari characters. What would make up for it is that we gain access to the other Pale Tree and hence get like a huge chunk of Tyria opened up with new zones.

-She will succeed at all costs
This speaks for itself. She is mad but the way she is described here is more like an “unstoppable” force instead of a mad man. It’s she will succeed, not must. If the destruction and death is involved in massive numbers. That’s okay for her. So if that is the case. She isn’t doing this for a good cause in our point of perspective since people has speculated that this story will get a plot twist were she might be good.

-Even if she has to kill every one last of you
So this ties together with what I recently wrote. She doesn’t care about the amount of people she will kill. I believe it was in The Nightmare Ends we can read the scribbled notes at the watchknight, “Stupid humans. Always in my way.” they say. So basically, humans(probably along with the other races) is nothing more than mosquitoes annyoing her. So that’s hinting again that what she is trying to accomplish is beyond destruction and killing. It’s GRAND.

So she saw into the Eternal Alchemy. What did she see?

I’d like to quote here.
“There’s a fine line between genius and insanity. I have erased this line.”
? Oscar Levant

She may be mad but that does not take away her ability to think greatly. It seems it only removes her way of thinking morally. So things like be ruler of the world is nothing she strives for. Power? Magic? Balance? Only Anet knows at the moment.

I think that her goal is not selfish nor evil. It’s what she thinks is for the greater good. But since she doesn’t think morally, the side effect of what she’s doing is not going unnoticed for us but for her it’s a sacrifice that has to be made.

Anyone else feel like the anet devs are sitting back, drinking a coffee or eating a bagel with a big stupid grin on their faces that we are overlooking ONE little detail that would solve this whole thing?

At least a mention that someone (dont give names) is on to something

Those screenshots actually make me a little sad.

According to that drawing of the alliances, it seems she wanted to make an alliance between the tengu and largos.
I would have liked to see that.

Just my idea, maybe someone already said the same, english isnt my main language its hard to read all sry.

Maybe what Scarlet see is just that : she is a minions of Mordremoth. Maybe she let him “speak” to her but stay herself(not fully awaken, and : kitten dat i’m Scarlet !) and do this for more knowedge or something like this.

I like one of those theories in another thread where someone showed a “black part” in top of one of the 4 screens unlockeck by the journal, and link this to the dragon paint, at Primordius emplacement.
http://image.noelshack.com/fichiers/2014/04/1390501767-gw208.jpg
https://dru1t5calhgfr.cloudfront.net/uploads/forum_attachment/file/4874/gw210.jpg

So… Maybe, at last, she wants to, like someone say in this other thread, force Primordius’ awakening. But.. Why ? We know one thing about him : he is the most powerfull, and dragons aren’t allies. So.. Maybe she just wants to force primordius to kill/neutralize mordremoth, then, use her full army/power to beat/catch him after the fight.. Or something like this.
At last we are just tester for her army/weapon, and she is totaly selfish, but, why not ?

And i forgot : she can use Quagan to aggro Primordius on Mordremoth, perfect plan.

https://forum-fr.gw2archive.eu/forum/livingworld/madness/spoilers-Ne-pas-lire-si-vous-n-avez-pas-ouvert/first#post192322
fr thread

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

It’s a pretty vague map, and the cross seems to be all over Lion’s Arch. It’s kind of hard to say that it is pointing out the FotM portal specifically.

Indeed the map is vague : it is the map of the region when you haven’t explored it (see attachments)
However, when you cross reference it this is much more clear.

@VodCom: Other locations are the Priory’s, Vigil’s and Whisper’s Seats.
@shasha: Primordius is already awaken.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Elder_Dragon
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Primordus

But he is still afk, i just dont know how to say this but is like “moove your kitten ”

In my character’s mind, I now view Scarlet as a darker Trahearne. She isn’t very social but she’s a genius, brilliant yes yet a loner. She saw something but lacks the empathy to share it. She managed to unite all tyria (and all of us). She’s preparing us to fight a Dragon. She did what Trahearne did but in a twisted way.

VodCom.6924:

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

It’s a pretty vague map, and the cross seems to be all over Lion’s Arch. It’s kind of hard to say that it is pointing out the FotM portal specifically.

Indeed the map is vague : it is the map of the region when you haven’t explored it (see attachments)
However, when you cross reference it this is much more clear.

Then…scarlet is aiming for the fractal gate? And if so….then new theory.

What if the fractal gate was really a time gate, where everything that happened in the past, only succeeded cause of the players travelling back to help it succeed. So by attacking it, and either destroying (really screwing up history, since the charr may not succeed in their battle, and that titan never playing out its roll), or perhaps entering it herself to change the past to suite her needs.

Finally, using the fractal transporter and recreating Omadd’s machine, to perhaps attack whatever she saw directly.

yeh, primordus.. we know for a fact he is the one to bring total destruction and the great dwarven armies can’t fend it off indefinitely.. i think this has been said before but it’s possible scarlet saw an upcoming armageddon, one where the pact lost and she at that point utilized her knowledge to ‘salvage’ the remaining inhabitants of tyria as steam creatures.. i think if she takes out the gate network and cuts off the orders she will deconstruct the pact as it currently stands and the remaining races of tyria will be forced to submit to her command
that’s progess, hooray for progress
sorry about all the death  ._.

@cheshirefox

True, maybe one of alternative is to “stealth” all of us(maybe with fractal and/or portal technology) like Mursaat does (if i remember right), but that need lot of thing and cant be prepared peacefully. (Including right timing, then forced armaggedon)

Then world is pretty destroyed, but not us… (And she can use that for beat modremoth and get her freedome from him =P Or just fight him during this time with portal)

Alright guys i’ve arrived to be that annoying person with a whole lot of random tidbits no one seems to care about. So, i’ve noticed in reading page upon page in the forums about Scarlet’s motives that we can’t seem to stop looking at the same three things over and over again: The Sylvari, The Elder Dragons, and her alliances. Of course each have played a large role in Scarlet’s character thus far (well with the exclusion of Elder Dragons because that’s still considered a bunch of theories ( well unless you read Taimi’s dialogue)).

But what about the other stuff? Why is Scarlet linked to the Steam Creatures which are linked to the the asura personal story with the infinity ball? Why are the portals that Scarlet used to drop her minions during her invasion events the same as the portal seen in Lornar’s pass as a skill point and right by the Steam Creature’s tower? Why is the Marionette right to the south of this area? So far, in my opinion, the Steam Creatures have been a missing link in all of this, especially considering that they COME FROM THE FUTURE and Scarlet utilizes them. The Clockheart in the Aetherblade path of TA serves as a decent connection to that technology since it is known that the Steam Creatures are mostly machine but with some biological parts (apparently not enough to sustain life), though it would seem the Clockheart is the opposite of that in having more biological parts than mechanical ones. Similar technologies regardless.

Another thing that should be noted is Scarlet’s excellence in the Asuran College of Synergetics, a College that has been likened to Nuclear Engineering by Jeff Grubb. So she goes and makes this “Aethercannon” that has the ability to wipe out life in a large area? Hmmm, that sounds oddly nuclear weapon-like. There has been speculation about the green energy that Scarlet uses to power her watchwork minions, my theory is that it’s a refined form of chaos material (basically Tyria’s version of nuclear power). I mean that WOULD change the face of Tyria forever.

I do like that idea that maybe Scarlet dislikes her transformation from Ceara to what she is now, as possibly hinted at by her treatment of Omadd’s portrait in her lair – and even her journal. I mean come on it’s OBVIOUS by now that something else was at work in her vision of the mists (bumdumtss), and that whatever it was it cracked her in two psychologically. Also does anyone think that E could be that new cute as a kitten asuran progeny, Taimi?

And yes I did look up on the ceiling of her lair and tbh it does resemble The Great Destroyer………………………………………………………………………………………….resemble being the key word here.

But man what about those eyes of Sauron all over the place that she’s drawn? Also what is that weird drawing under the table directly to the left of your character when you enter her lair? It’s the only one of it’s kind. (see photo)

Lot’s of crazy things, I personally enjoy the reddit theory about Dhuum.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/1w6rdi/quick_attempt_at_connecting_a_couple_dots/

Syryn.7591:

And yes I did look up on the ceiling of her lair and tbh it does resemble The Great Destroyer………………………………………………………………………………………….resemble being the key word here.

If there is one thing that drawing does not resemble, it’s the Great Destroyer.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/images/thumb/9/9e/The_Great_Destroyer_concept_art.jpg/800px-The_Great_Destroyer_concept_art.jpg

Look at the head, totally different. The many legs, the body, the tail. Nothing of that can be found in the drawing. It also doesn’t resemble Primordus.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/images/5/53/Primordus.jpg

Syryn.7591:

But man what about those eyes of Sauron all over the place that she’s drawn?

That IS reminiscent of Primordus. It looks some what like his eye when he awakes at the end of EotN.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/images/7/74/Ogden%27s_Benediction_cinematic_still2.jpg

Syryn.7591:

Also what is that weird drawing under the table directly to the left of you character when you enter her lair? It’s the only one of it’s kind. (see photo)

That drawing looks more like random dream imagery and mad scribbling. I don’t think it means anything. Besides, I think it is too vague to draw any conclusions from.

Ah now I get it. ANet will solve the other cities being graveyards by blowing up LA. Nice job

So what will be the next center of the world? My money is on DR.