Guild Wars 2

I just don’t understand why Warden II is so difficult for some people to beat. It is a fairly simple mechanic, run him over his mines when he is spinning, but people just can’t seem to get it down. Before anyone says that some people don’t know what to do yet I don’t accept that as an answer for any of the Wardens, and this is why. Not only are the instructions on how to defeat the Wardens written under their health bars you also have resources like the wiki to get the info you need, and if all of that somehow goes over your head you have about 15 different people telling you how to beat the boss in /map chat. Maybe it’s the server I’m on, maybe people are really just that inept at some things, maybe it really is that hard I just get lucky every time I run the boss and beat it, or maybe people just don’t care. Someone please tell me why simple concepts are beyond some people who attend this event and why we have to fail because of their ignorance on the boss fight. I’m honestly stumped.

Because you can’t practise. There’s two hours between every event so you can’t expect all participants to be experiences with all five bosses.

ScaryHydra.3165:

I just don’t understand why Warden II is so difficult for some people to beat. It is a fairly simple mechanic, run him over his mines when he is spinning, but people just can’t seem to get it down. Before anyone says that some people don’t know what to do yet I don’t accept that as an answer for any of the Wardens, and this is why. Not only are the instructions on how to defeat the Wardens written under their health bars you also have resources like the wiki to get the info you need, and if all of that somehow goes over your head you have about 15 different people telling you how to beat the boss in /map chat. Maybe it’s the server I’m on, maybe people are really just that inept at some things, maybe it really is that hard I just get lucky every time I run the boss and beat it, or maybe people just don’t care. Someone please tell me why simple concepts are beyond some people who attend this event and why we have to fail because of their ignorance on the boss fight. I’m honestly stumped.

Not everyone is analytical or attentive enough to notice the boss mechanics are clearly detailed under the nameplate. A lot of casual players seem to have the ‘SMASHBUTTONZ’ mindset and probably just afk as soon as they enter the platform..

Also doesn’t help that you have rangers who are clueless on putting their pets to passive.

Vol.7601:

Also doesn’t help that you have rangers who are clueless on putting their pets to passive.

This is purely semantics that is annoying me, but pets should NOT be on passive. They need to be recalled for the few seconds it takes to run over a mine, then target reset on the warden. Especially since you’re probably using a jungle stalker or snow leopard.

Everyone in map chat shouts “rangers don’t use your pets!” and then I have to explain to a bunch of now confused rangers that you absolutely should use your pets, just appropriately.

Fluffball.8307:

Vol.7601:

Also doesn’t help that you have rangers who are clueless on putting their pets to passive.

This is purely semantics that is annoying me, but pets should NOT be on passive. They need to be recalled for the few seconds it takes to run over a mine, then target reset on the warden. Especially since you’re probably using a jungle stalker or snow leopard.

Everyone in map chat shouts “rangers don’t use your pets!” and then I have to explain to a bunch of now confused rangers that you absolutely should use your pets, just appropriately.

I have a level 80 ranger and I just use the ranged spiders for this fight that way you don’t have to hear people complaining about the pets and you have a reliable source of damage. For my other pet I either use the Red Moa for the fury (along with the fury I give from the war horn 5) or the Lynx for the pure DPS potential.

Appropriate pet use.

Considering how many people dies in Lyssa, Jormag, other world boss encounters, I’m not even surprised.

Yeah, the annoyance at ranger pets on this boss have made me laugh since i’ve seen more than one platform fail without a ranger in sight and a more than a few with 2 rangers tear through the thing. It just comes down to people knowing the warden and how to beat it, or not knowing and eating it on the platform.

Even though the bosses don’t change, you can’t guarantee that you will get a group of people on the platform that are experienced. I know what to do, and I have explained to a lot of folks, but the truth is that if you get even 1 person on the platform with you that has a) never done it, b) knows what to do but is inexperienced, or c) doesn’t care what they’ve been told, the chain event will fail.

Personally, I find Boss 3 more difficult than 2, but that’s a personal thing.

Warden 3 has a crush on my character, I swear.

Fluffball.8307:

Vol.7601:

Also doesn’t help that you have rangers who are clueless on putting their pets to passive.

This is purely semantics that is annoying me, but pets should NOT be on passive. They need to be recalled for the few seconds it takes to run over a mine, then target reset on the warden. Especially since you’re probably using a jungle stalker or snow leopard.

Everyone in map chat shouts “rangers don’t use your pets!” and then I have to explain to a bunch of now confused rangers that you absolutely should use your pets, just appropriately.

Ideally, yes, we would all give rangers a detailed instruction on how to use their pets…

However, in an event this large, you have a lot of players that cover a very wide range of experience. Considering that you’ll probably have several rangers that don’t even have their pet’s commands hot keyed, however, it’s unlikely you will be able to explain this to them in a timely manner before the event starts and even if you did, it’s unlikely that they could pull it off well enough in the middle of a giant fight to be successful.

If a ranger is experienced enough to know how to control their pets, then you probably don’t have to explain this to them anyways.

Dahkeus.8243:

Ideally, yes, we would all give rangers a detailed instruction on how to use their pets…

However, in an event this large, you have a lot of players that cover a very wide range of experience. Considering that you’ll probably have several rangers that don’t even have their pet’s commands hot keyed, however, it’s unlikely you will be able to explain this to them in a timely manner before the event starts and even if you did, it’s unlikely that they could pull it off well enough in the middle of a giant fight to be successful.

If a ranger is experienced enough to know how to control their pets, then you probably don’t have to explain this to them anyways.

The problem is that it confuses the average rangers to tell them not to use their pet, especially if they have done so previously. I’d be ok with telling rangers “don’t use your pet on the wardens if you are not 100% sure of the mechanics” or something. It’s also important that good rangers know people won’t be screaming at them to put pets away when the ranger is rightfully and perhaps critically maximizing DPS to win the event.

Meh, whatevs.

For the inexperienced ranger it can be easier to just put the pet on passive, until they get to the point where they can bring out the pet as needed during the chain 2 boss fight.

Though its not rangers I have an issue with in that fight, its the people who dont bring the boss around back into his own mines. I then get downed or killed trying to tell them what to do in chat while trying to stay away from everything else. Personally when he does follow me I just run around in a circle and pass between two of his mines and make sure I lead him into one of the two I just passed.

I have seen some groups who can make him not move very much, Im not sure how they are doing that, it seems he drops a mine then immediately hit his own mine again, it make it great for burning him down fast.

The biggest issue with Warden 2 is the people who get aggro and then proceed to run in a GIANT circle. This ruins the chance of the chain succeeding.

tweeve.3782:

I have seen some groups who can make him not move very much, Im not sure how they are doing that, it seems he drops a mine then immediately hit his own mine again, it make it great for burning him down fast.

It’s dodging in to him instead of running in a small circle. He’ll drop a mine and then immediately turn around to run in to it.

tweeve.3782:

For the inexperienced ranger it can be easier to just put the pet on passive, until they get to the point where they can bring out the pet as needed during the chain 2 boss fight.

Though its not rangers I have an issue with in that fight, its the people who dont bring the boss around back into his own mines. I then get downed or killed trying to tell them what to do in chat while trying to stay away from everything else. Personally when he does follow me I just run around in a circle and pass between two of his mines and make sure I lead him into one of the two I just passed.

I have seen some groups who can make him not move very much, Im not sure how they are doing that, it seems he drops a mine then immediately hit his own mine again, it make it great for burning him down fast.

You dodgeroll THROUGH the warden. He will drop a mine and immediately turn around to get the guy that it’s following and hit the mine it just placed.

Rajani Isa.6294:

Warden 3 has a crush on my character, I swear.

literally

((stomp))

ScaryHydra.3165:

I just don’t understand why Warden II is so difficult for some people to beat. It is a fairly simple mechanic, run him over his mines when he is spinning, but people just can’t seem to get it down. Before anyone says that some people don’t know what to do yet I don’t accept that as an answer for any of the Wardens, and this is why…

You are completely underestimating the laziness of some people. In other mmos, they get into instances and are kicked out because they really shine in their incompetence. In this game, they are welcome to join in and improve, only they don’t want to improve, they just want the loot/achievements, and end up not being able to burn warden II (it also doesn’t help that just one guy doing the wrong thing can ruin warden II for an entire platform). They don’t read guides, don’t read map chat, don’t analize the situation, don’t reason. Anything beyond hitting the autoattack is too tiring for them. It’s the only explanation I find for it, really.

The only warden, so far, I can see where people would fail, though, is III. I use the dodge food and even with that I gott downed 4 out of 6 tries (not clear what area the bombs affect, and sometimes you run out of dodges). Heck, even I got downed by a bomb upon teleporting to the platform (I got a loading screeen and the first thing I saw was someone trying to rez me).

You don’t need to dodge the Warden III bombs at all. Either stand in between them and range or get right on him and melee. Dodging may be what is getting you killed (unless you are dodging stomp).

My observation is that the first two wardens go down in most cases, then people start having problems.

Warden 3 is easy to do, but also easy to fail.

If you get at least 3 wardens down in the first round of lanes, you’ll probably win.

PookieDaWombat.6209:

Yeah, the annoyance at ranger pets on this boss have made me laugh since i’ve seen more than one platform fail without a ranger in sight and a more than a few with 2 rangers tear through the thing. It just comes down to people knowing the warden and how to beat it, or not knowing and eating it on the platform.

The funny thing is, every time I’ve seen a ranger (be it on my platform or the one next to me) it’s always succeeded.

But as the league community would call it, “typical sheep behavior”.

The Origins of Madness content was released only just one week ago, on January 21.

For normal people, who have lives and for whom video games are a casual distraction for weekends, this past Saturday and Sunday would have been the first time many people even logged in to the game to learn of the Marionette or Wurm battles.

I find it strange that people can fail on the first and second wardens when those can easily be duo’d. They hardly directly attack you. Win or fail is determined purely on understanding the mechanics.

Link in my signature if you need a better understanding of them.

I posted this just now in another thread, but I will post it here as well since it applies also:

After doing marionette dozens of times, I have to say the 2 warden’s that I see most commonly failed are warden 2 and 3. Warden 2 is failed simply because there are people who just don’t understand that they have to lure the warden into his own mines to be able to damage him.
Warden 3 however is a whole different story. The vast majority of players I have seen who melee warden 3 end up dead/downed. (yes I am well aware there are players who are pro enough and tanky enough to melee this boss, but you are missing the point) If are you melee attacking the boss then that means you are not only in range of his melee attacks (which do massive damage), but also are thus siting right on top of the bombs. In short: range attack warden 3 unless you are very confident in your ability to dodge and tank his attacks.

The other problem I see often is players not reviving their downed (not dead) allies in the platform fights. Every class except thief has a skill that revives downed allies. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Revival All of these revival skills, with the exception of Illusion of Life (because of the way that one skill works), I strongly recommend you stress in map chat the importance of them and have everyone equip them. As they allow you to revive your downed allies quickly. (side note for elementalists: I’d recommend using the Glyph of Renewal while in Earth attunement, as this one revives up to 3 allies. For rangers the Search and Rescue seems to work on allies on the platform next to yours.)

Todd.8162:

For normal people, who have lives and for whom video games are a casual distraction for weekends

Oh good, I was hoping that guy would make an appearance on the forums.

Ayrilana.1396:

I find it strange that people can fail on the first and second wardens when those can easily be duo’d. They hardly directly attack you. Win or fail is determined purely on understanding the mechanics.

Well.. the Wardens do scale to the amount of people on the platform. Theoretically they can be Solo’d as well.

Todd.8162:

The Origins of Madness content was released only just one week ago, on January 21.

For normal people, who have lives and for whom video games are a casual distraction for weekends, this past Saturday and Sunday would have been the first time many people even logged in to the game to learn of the Marionette or Wurm battles.

So normal people can’t read a boss description, the map chat, or a wiki??? That’s actually quite worrisome. How do they complete their aforementioned jobs or do anything productive in these “normal” lives without a basic skill required to function in society today?

The issue is a failure in encounter design, not a failure on the part of the player. Telling the Ranger to place their pet on passive is akin to telling the Elementalist not to use certain attunments or the Mesmer to not shatter clones.

When every point in the game has taught the player to do “X”, do not passively expect them to do “Y” not “X” only in specific circumstances.

Thothkepara.2539:

The issue is a failure in encounter design, not a failure on the part of the player. Telling the Ranger to place their pet on passive is akin to telling the Elementalist not to use certain attunments or the Mesmer to not shatter clones.

When every point in the game has taught the player to do “X”, do not passively expect them to do “Y” not “X” only in specific circumstances.

incorrect, there are times when mesmer should/shouldnt shatter, and times when you shouldnt use attunements. And the game doesnt tell ranger not to use its pet, it tells them to control thier pet. One of the main mechanic buttons on the class is for telling the pet to come back to owner. A lot of rangers think their pet is just an AA machine, thats not really how they are supposed to use them when it matters.

Warden Two usually fails because of rangers that cannot control their pets. Everyone has seen the bearbows on their servers….

Coming across rangers that actually know how to use pets is rare. No wonders they are disliked nearly everywhere inside the game. Was the same with hunters on WoW. Similar class, same problems.

Just keep telling them to not let their pet attack and you will be fine. They will learn sooner or later.

Explain this to me – what are the pets supposedly doing that makes the warden II unbeatable?

I’ve nuked Warden II out of existence on my ranger and I wasn’t doing any fancy pet management. I would assume if the warden locked onto a pet it would quickly grind it to death and then we’d be back to players kiting it into place. Is it just the pets are running over mines or something? I run a devourer in that phase, so maybe my ranged pet AI just stays the hell out of the way inherently?

If there is a type of pet that doesn’t cause this problem, maybe we can just encourage folks to run one of those during the event…

Nike.2631:

Explain this to me – what are the pets supposedly doing that makes the warden II unbeatable?

Not handling aggro correctly, I think, or rangers siccing the pets on them to keep them in one spot instead of moving them through mines. I’ve used Longbow #4 to send the Warden into a mine and people flipped out about how I was going to mess it up. Strangely the Warden went down though on my platform . . . still got a bit of blame so I wound up just sticking to shortbow from then on.

If there is a type of pet that doesn’t cause this problem, maybe we can just encourage folks to run one of those during the event…

Something which doesn’t immobilize or fear, I understand the ranged spiders are good.

Or, perhaps, the wardens are just poorly balanced? The latest round of Mario I did (just for the daily) had me (guardian in all-ascended and well-balanced mix of soldier/knight/zerker gear) and an elementalist face warden 2 on one platform. The two of us played properly throughout the encounter … and the timer went out when the warden still had about 5% HP left. Short of crafting a second set of gear there was nothing I could have done to change the outcome of the fight.

DPS checks are artificial and poorly thought out surrogates for genuinely interesting game mechanics.

WilliamDaBloody.2591:

Warden Two usually fails because of rangers that cannot control their pets. Everyone has seen the bearbows on their servers….

Funny thing. I have never (literally, never) seen a warden 2 platform to fail with rangers there. I have seen a bearbow ranger (yeah, bearbow) solo it, however.

Yes, sometimes the pet is really annoying, but srsly: I see so many people diying during the warden fights… and not only rangers. Most of them just have no idea what to do. Especially on Warden2, 3 and 4.
The second warden mostly survives.
The third warden’s bombs mostly kills the whole platform.
The fourth warden seems to be a big mistery to everyone, i lol a lot seeing all those peoples running around like chickens to avoid the aoes and the marionette’s blade.

Btw, we managed to kill the marionette yesterday on overflow. There were two commanders, me and another one. And i played with my ranger.

Warden 2 is perfect for any decent Ranger player.

As long as they know how to recall there pet, then resend on attack. Any half decent Ranger with the dps could solo that particular warden.

I am amazed how many fail warden 5, all you do is stack, dps that’s it…

I thought virtually all GW2 players knew that was pretty much the easiest way to defeat 80% of the content in Gw2…

No way to practice certain wardens is probably the big culprit here. Recognizing that you need to kite the boss into mines is easy, but for the average player, realizing that tighter circles will mean they’ll hit the mines sooner is something they probably won’t think of until they’ve fought against it a couple times. Also keep in mind that in each fight with the marionette, each individual player will likely only fight the wardens twice.

If someone goes down on my platform, I res them after I finish killing the boss. Ressing takes away from my DPS, and I’m confident that I can solo. People going down are just pulling aggro and reducing my control of the boss.

You lose more DPS by not res’ing a downed (not dead) player. The only exception being if they’re consistently getting downed and in that case better left off to die.

For the record, I’m a ranger and I never failed a platform…

(although some might argue that it’s cause of a guardian or warrior zerker next to me :S)

Pet is handy if used well. That’s why we have several…

Fluffball.8307:

Dahkeus.8243:

Ideally, yes, we would all give rangers a detailed instruction on how to use their pets…

However, in an event this large, you have a lot of players that cover a very wide range of experience. Considering that you’ll probably have several rangers that don’t even have their pet’s commands hot keyed, however, it’s unlikely you will be able to explain this to them in a timely manner before the event starts and even if you did, it’s unlikely that they could pull it off well enough in the middle of a giant fight to be successful.

If a ranger is experienced enough to know how to control their pets, then you probably don’t have to explain this to them anyways.

The problem is that it confuses the average rangers to tell them not to use their pet, especially if they have done so previously. I’d be ok with telling rangers “don’t use your pet on the wardens if you are not 100% sure of the mechanics” or something. It’s also important that good rangers know people won’t be screaming at them to put pets away when the ranger is rightfully and perhaps critically maximizing DPS to win the event.

Meh, whatevs.

I’d rather have confused rangers not using their pet at all until they realize how the fight works than to have then mess up the fight mechanics in an event that’s only available every 2 hours. =P

Some people just don’t want to do what you tell them. They probably don’t even read the map chat.

It’s not really rangers. It’s just ignorant players that ruin the experience for everyone. Don’t know the encounter? That’s fine. Don’t know the basics of the game? That’s not fine.

There are players who can teach you. There are online guides. There are a lot of in game clues too (like AOE to avoid, boss description under the name, etc…). Some of it does take trial and error but luckily there is a server full of people willing to educate you.

Again, the trouble is the group of ignorant players who don’t care. They want their achievements.

“I want to kill Warden 1 but I don’t want to go behind him”

“I want to kill Warden 2 but I don’t want to kite him”

“I want to kill Warden 3 but I don’t want to dodge his attacks”

…etc…

No, the trouble is not Rangers. I ended up having to 2 man a platform with a Ranger because the 2 Wars and 1 Ele we had were on the floor more than a common rug. We did alright with just the two of us. He (or she I guess), was adaptive and quick. They changed their playstyle the second they realized that rezzing these guys would just have them back on the ground again. This is an example of a smart player, that knows their class, and knows the game.

These are the sorts of players that are fine even if they know nothing about the event when they enter the server. These are the players that can learn.

The “average” player, believe it or not, is incredibly bad. Like… face tanking “watch-out-here-it-comes!” telegraphed attacks. They don’t read descriptions, let alone Dulfy or any resources outside of the game. Remember the Queen’s Gauntlet? I saw people dying over, and over, and over, and over to the first 3 champions. Yes, including the very first one.

Go to sPvP and spectate players. Half the builds don’t even make sense. I saw a necro running a well build… With no wells. A thief with a pure (and fairly bad) condition build… And berserker gear.

Good heavens, I remember a few months ago reading somewhere some people complaining veterans mobs while leveling were too strong and very hard to solo!

This kind of thing isn’t for everyone. And that’s ok. The problem is that ANet creates events that require coordination, but doesn’t give the players the ability to coordinate… So you try to get a team together and get stuck in separate overflows with people that struggle with “HIT THE BACK OF THE CREATURE THAT SAYS SO UNDER ITS NAME AND HAS A BIG SHINY SHIELD IN FRONT OF IT!”. I’ve seen people fail that one kitten …

It takes all the fun out of it when you can’t coordinate with people who know what they’re doing, and the mechanics of the event don’t even allow you to carry the ones that don’t have a clue.

Kicking water uphill, etc.

ProxyDamage.9826:

The “average” player, believe it or not, is incredibly bad. Like… face tanking “watch-out-here-it-comes!” telegraphed attacks. They don’t read descriptions, let alone Dulfy or any resources outside of the game. Remember the Queen’s Gauntlet? I saw people dying over, and over, and over, and over to the first 3 champions. Yes, including the very first one.

I was doing that, til I decided not to bother as I had other things to do with my time then. Especially hearing how it would be back later, like SAB World 2 had me chewing nails and I decided to go back to doing other things that patch. Like WvW.

I wish there were some Veteran versions of the wardens scattered about the map between fights – or guarding the probes, maybe. That way people could maybe get a hang of the mechanics in a lower pressure environment.

Rajani Isa.6294:

Warden 3 has a crush on my character, I swear.

My guess is that you play something with heavy armor? Especially if you go for a more defensive build. I’m running exotic’s cleric armor with guardian runes and the wardens (and most bosses and champs, now that I think about it) come running at me like a kid whose been offered a free trip to Disney. Just means its our responsibility to try and control the fight as much as possible.

Wulfram.9654:

I wish there were some Veteran versions of the wardens scattered about the map between fights – or guarding the probes, maybe. That way people could maybe get a hang of the mechanics in a lower pressure environment.

That is almost the case for 3 and 4. They are not exactly the same but they use the same attacks and animations with the same timing and cues. 5 is just stack and DPS so not much to say. 1 really shouldn’t be an issue but …. meh. 2 is approximately a veteran reef rider for dodging the spin.

+30 warden fights my group of 5 hasn’t lost 1 fight yet. haven’t destroyed generator with less than 42 seconds left to spare. You don’t have to be great to win warden fight. You only need 1 person who can dodge and rez soft downed players to beat the fight. Its not hard content, most of the PvE community has no skill whatsoever. Arena.net should supply a dodge tutorial / challenge that players have to beat before being allowed to play group content.