Guild Wars 2

However, when you put PAXA vs a pug zerg of more than 30 people, PAXA will still lose (unless the zerg is utterly terrible) even though PAXA clearly has better skill and organization. THIS SHOULD NOT BE THE CASE!!!

I have to disagree with this idea. IRL, 5 vs 30 should almost always be a wipe for the 5 in real open-field battle with no chokepoints, etc. The 30 would have to be completely clueless to blow that kind of advantage.

5 vs 10, where the 5 are significantly better? I can buy that. But asking for 5 good players to be able to beat 30 players who aren’t total spazzes is asking for “balance” that doesn’t make sense. And if it gets so balanced that 5 can beat 30, why not 5 vs 60? 5 vs 100? 5 vs infinity? At what point does reality set in and stop this god-like group of 5 from being able to beat any number of less-god-like characters in a pitched battle?

And deny it all you want, Berk is exactly right: The best way to send new or inexperienced players straight to the zerg is to ambush them solo with your 4-5 man group (and maybe emote over their corpse like you just accomplished some real manly feat). That’s precisely the lesson I learned about the 3rd time I got stealth-ambushed by 5-man KoM/Paxa groups while roaming for pois early in my WvW career. I learned it was no fun dying without a prayer while roaming, and the only safety was in numbers. The 3rd time I didn’t even bother to res immediately, and instead watched as the KoM group waited around, stealthed whenever they saw a solo coming, and repeated. I hope it was fun for them, cause it sure wasn’t for me and probably not for the other solos they stomped.

As for the emoting, I never actually saw PAXA do this — but I kitten sure saw KoM do it, multiple times. In fact I got that crap far more often from HoD in general than any other server we’ve played.

Edit: OK, Shademehr made almost the same argument right before me. Redundancy Redundancy

This is going over the heads of pretty much everyone in the thread outside of the typical 3-4 groups that enjoy small group play……………we could give two kittens about wiping zergs. We just want to be able to punish the zerg play style, and the mechanics discourage this…..WHY YOU ASK???? So we get more people in smaller groups, encouraging challenging and coordinated gameplay.

Again, another DAoC example. 8 – mans originally formed with pbaoe bomb groups. To zerg bust, and the mechanics enabled it. Soon, other groups realized this was possible and split off into 8 mans too. Next thing you know there were 20 8 mans running around trying to zerg bust. They would run into each other and realize that was way more fun, and the meta switched to assist trains. It developed into a thriving 8 man scene and guess what……the zergs still got to play their game too. It was just that the mechanics allowed BOTH to exist.

In GW2 there is absolutely no downside other than sheer and utter boredom to zerging. And if you people are too niave to see the lack of longevity in this mindless keep trading that is promoted……..you will soon realize when the FIRST new option comes along and you are stuck running around with 5 people total in the entire borderland.

Shademehr.1397:

It looks to me that you’re saying a five man group, just because they individually have a higher proficiency at the game, should always be able to defeat a much larger force. ALWAYS. That’s just crazy, imo.

No not always. As far as my engagement in this conversation goes, I really think you make some good points but also have a “can’t see the forest for the trees” in your logic. Because of certain game mechanics proficiency often has less to do with the outcome than anything else.

First off, you are right, numbers likely win out. 5v20 or 5v30 doesnt really matter, often the outcome is the same. My gripe (I will let PAXA and others differentiate for themselves) is that the 20 people are rewarded due to ANETs 5-man AoE cap, for running in a larger group. (Same could be said if a 20-man met up with a 40-man, then a 40v60, etc, has nothing to do with the actual numbers, its more about the ratios in terms of 5-man increments)

With that being said, skill has little to do with it more often than not. When you take into account the AoE cap, coupled with the downed state shenanigans, you can start to see how larger group play is encourage/rewarded/popular.

It is very easy for folks to sit back and say “well 5v20, pfft the 20 should win”….But when you analyze it you quickly realize, ok how could the 5 ever win? Well the 5-man can only hit 5/20 at a time, while the 20 can hit all 5 of the 5-man. So essentially the 5-man has to wipe the 20-man four times over (again 5 at a time), and that is not even taking into account whether or not the 20 are ressing each other.

Like I said I can’t speak for anyone else, but when I hear people talking of “zerg-mentality”, “broken mechanics”, “rewarding/encouraging zerging”, I often think of an example like this. Because of the game’s mechanics it makes zerg busting exponentially more difficult.

The same applies to roaming, I can jump into a group of 8-10 people, now it isn’t very smart but it has been known to happen. Same problem again, I am hitting 5 of the 8-10 people, while ALL of them are hitting me.

If you are reading all of this thinking/saying “well dummy you cant go 1v10 or 5v20”, then that (again to me), is what most of us are talking about in how this game, its culture, and its mechanics discourage smaller groups, and encourage zerg-style ones.

Oozo.7856:

In M59 there were no PvE servers. It was full PvP outside of the cities and when you died all of your inventory, armor, and weapons could be looted.

It had guild halls which could be taken by enemy guilds. This was usually done by infiltration and betrayal. And if it was taken all of the stuff you had stored there was taken.

There was a player justice system. People who killed innocents turned red and could be killed with no consequences. People who killed innocents would also be haunted by revenants that would attack them randomly. Revenants were difficult to kill.

The innocents on the server could elect a “governer” (which was a player) and that player had the power to pardon people who turned red. The game had PK (player killer) and antiPK guilds. It had gulds that declared war on each other, infiltrated each other, and took guild halls. It had a political system. And that was decades ago.

I was in an antiPK guild, but also played PKers which I used to infiltrate and sabotage PK guilds. I actually created a different persona that “spoke” in a different way than my main character to fool the PK guilds. When I killed people I always returned their most valuable items. But, for a price… Dark Angel Feathers, which were needed to cast dark magic (Qor).

Compare that to the direction that MMOs have gone in today’s market. And ask yourself why that is. :P

WTF this M-59 game sounds awesome 0_0

The only thing I can think of that has that kind of level of PvP is Eve.

The guild system with infiltration and stuff sounds awesome, can’t believe a game called ‘Guild Wars’ has the barest, most basic and uninteresting interaction of ‘guilds’ i’ve seen in any game I’ve played.

There’s such a lack of punishment in GW2 that it results in zero encouragement to improve your own gameplay. Instead people just find the path of least resistance to getting what they want, which in WvW is

Numbers + Siege = loot bags and wxp

Craig.2403:

Anyways, the problem with your post about siege is that the larger group ALWAYS has more siege. So, you see, while this small group builds 1 or 2 arrow carts (because that’s all they have supply to build), the zerg is quickly building 10… and how does this help the small group? You make it sound like only the small group gets siege, which is clearly wrong.

In that case, the real problem is the zerg, and that’s an annoyingly smart one. Don’t blame the sieges.

On the field or at a post, the sieger or the commander needs people to stop spamming 11111 or 22222 chasing the red tags and help building sieges, and the kind and cool helpers may have no chance to play one of those siege toys. Also please do remember that, as I said before, sieges aren’t there by themselves and aren’t always there.

Without sieges in WvW, or as some elite players suggested here — we should all go out and fight for the eternal glory (or for the hell of fun, for the pure pleasant sensation, which is arguable among die-hard PvP’ers, Master of Disaster siegers, and casual players) — somehow I think it will be just something dull and sad (in modern era or today’s view) like The Charge of the Light Brigade .

The situation we’re talking here is interestingly a bit different from the poem and history though. However, I’m not gonna to elaborate on the fact of the history and the metaphor behind or the meaning of the poem. You native English speakers or people growing up in western countries — North America, UK, or EU — should understand it better than me. (._.)

…………………

Eh, god kitten it! It’s a game! I play it for fun with some fun people (the social side of WvW), and I usually post something I think it’s fun or has something funny or awkwardly humourous in it. I do feel tired of all those BS (oops! no offense!!) from time to time, but some old faces in DR always give me a laugh! XD …maybe you should find yours, too.

I know that last week and this week we’re winning, but some people here do say that —win or lose, it doesn’t matter -- as long as you have quality time with your server mates.

I had fun once running with MethaneGas/Marin’s [OHai] guildies . I didn’t know them before, just met them on my way to the sentry in enemy borderland. They or we didn’t plan the masquerade party. Someone in [OHai] started it, and others, including me, just all followed. I used 15 of my 20 transformation potions that night.

It is my first forum post, and you can see we have outmanned outnumbered buff on. We went to DH’s NN camp from east, capped the camp, but then got killed fooling around there. However, hilariously, we came back later from west and did it again…… Last time I saw maybe [OHai]’s ele in EB, he is doing silly dancing in postman form!

BTW, even though I find the argument that a 5-man group should be able to wipe a 30-man zerg a bit silly and unrealistic, I would like to see the 5-man AoE cap lifted or expanded if possible, and I do think the downed mechanic is very flawed, at least in PvP. If ANet can bring themselves to rethink those specific implementations, and this gives a very good 5-man group a chance to win a battle against a poorly-led group 3 times their size, then I would applaud that. I’m just not holding my breath, as it seems the cap is a practical rather than an idealistic issue, and they do seem married to their downed state implementation. I really wish there was a straightforward way to eliminate that in PvP situations, though.

Hello Sorrow’s Furnace and Eredon Terrace! I will be hosting a Fight Club and everyone is welcome!

Location – Devona’s Rest Borderlands under Champion’s Demense Camp
Time – 8 PM EST. If you need a conversion to your time zone, please PM me your immediate time!

Standard Rules/Tips:
- /bow before each duel
- Duels end when the opposed is downed
- If an interruption divides a duel, please warn the player that an event is occurring and should be told to immediately stop interrupting. If the player continues the interruption, the opposed should down the player. Finishing a player is absolutely unnecessary and is not tolerated.
- Team Duels are allowed, if you would like to start one, each team must have equal amounts of players, and the duel initiates when all team players /bow. The team duel is finished when the opposing players are finished and the last person is downed. You may resurrect your team player if they’re downed, but not when they’re finished until the team duel is complete.
- Siege weapons and items from the “Traps and Tricks” outfitter is not permitted.
- No Stacks are permitted. ex. Corruption, Perception, Bloodlust, Life, Luck.

Please be advised that Fight Club is about practice between players in which they could not personally nor able to test their full potential in sPvP. This event is also about creating friendships between servers.

I hope to see many people there as I have seen on the forums, hope everyone can make it!

If there are any questions about this event, please whisper me anything you misunderstand before Fight Club.

Fight Club will start in approximately 5 hours from this post.

Euryon.9248:

BTW, even though I find the argument that a 5-man group should be able to wipe a 30-man zerg a bit silly and unrealistic, I would like to see the 5-man AoE cap lifted or expanded if possible, and I do think the downed mechanic is very flawed, at least in PvP. If ANet can bring themselves to rethink those specific implementations, and this gives a very good 5-man group a chance to win a battle against a poorly-led group 3 times their size, then I would applaud that. I’m just not holding my breath, as it seems the cap is a practical rather than an idealistic issue, and they do seem married to their downed state implementation. I really wish there was a straightforward way to eliminate that in PvP situations, though.

Well said and you are right, the AoE cap is a technical issue of sorts…Technical in the sense that if they raised it their server would catch on fire. The AoE cakitten trictly due to server load issues according to our WvW rep.

Whats funny is seeing small man groups wanting the ability to bust zergs with impunity (that was the problem with DAOC it promoted small man with skill sets) but marketed large scale battles.

I normally run solo and small mans in DAOC would often let someone from their group go one on one with a solo fighter… here the small mans zerg solo players without hesitation… then complain when a larger zerg over whelms them… well sorry no tears from me.

Same thing will happen here (that happened in DAOC) if they suddenly load up on skills that allow a 5 man to bust a 30 man in the open field… you will be left with 3-4 small man groups amongst the 3 servers every week and then eventually it will be a dead game.

Most players do not have the time or inclination to be a dedicated small man teram, I log in for fun… I dont log in to “win” I want a break from reality.. I get enough reality when I deploy.

irishhaf.1692:

Whats funny is seeing small man groups wanting the ability to bust zergs with impunity

Opportunity, not necessarily ability…Again, it is not only about smaller groups vs zergs…

Speaking of fun, sieges on the open field, and DR giving me love and laugh……

One day evening in this match, we noticed that our E sentry was gone and NE camp flipped by SF rather quick, so probably Blodeuyn called it out in the map/team chat that available hands to NN camp from Citadel.

Initially, there were just 4 or 5 random (guild) but maybe all regular DR rushed to NN camp. I dropped an regular AC next to the supply pile, 1 or 2 other people helped me to finish it. Then I found Blodeuyn the ele and Kleo the engi (I think so) heading to NN camp’s east entrance, so I tried to catch up with them.

All of a sudden, they both turned back running to me, and I saw 5-7+ SF chasing them incoming from the route to the centaurs. Kleo and I both lol’ed in public chat immediately, then we retreated to NN camp. I told people in map chat that I built an AC next to supply pile when I was auto running for my sorry life.

I think it was an even fight, or maybe we were slightly fewer than SF, but we got help from camp NPCs and the AC (someone manned it). We defended the camp successfully before more reinforcements came.

Similar things happened twice or thrice at our SW camp, too. We saw the anonymous victim Sylvari B was dying in SW camp, so 2 party members WP to Bay and rushed to SW camp. It was pretty messy in SW camp when we made it there, victim B and the quarter master were down, veteran supervisor still valiantly fighting for us was the last one standing. There were 4-5+ SF and we got the supervisor and 3-4 DR — 1 on the ground. I don’t really know how we managed to save the camp, but we made it before our full backup arrived.

Nonetheless, we did a poor job in SE area. I used all my 5 or 6 stealth distruptor traps yesterday and maybe only successfully defended SE camp or sentry twice. :-/

We’re not an organised group in the same or closed guilds, we’re just a random pact or non-pact party. We use the party as a tool to acquire activity info on the map and call the enemy target when 2 or 3 of us work together. (uh, and chatting)

ET and SF occasionally would bring 25+ prime time zerg to our SE and SW tower, but most of the time in DR BL, you have some solo, duo, or small group up to maybe 7 working well. For me or for my party, it is fun, if comparing with previous matches… and I hope at least DR BL isn’t too zergy for you.

Hello! Another reminder that Fight Club will be starting is approximately 20 minutes. Get your gear up and bring some friends and guildies!

King Amadaeus.8619:

irishhaf.1692:

Whats funny is seeing small man groups wanting the ability to bust zergs with impunity

Opportunity, not necessarily ability…Again, it is not only about smaller groups vs zergs…

Thats the rub for me… many… not all but many of the people that want the opportunity will not stop pushing till its the ability to do so with impunity, its the nature of the meta gamer, then when the next big thing comes out they run to it leaving a wreck of a game behind them.

Thats been my experience in MMO’s anyways.

Craig.2403:

@BerkYou want PAXA to fight you 1v1 when they have told people countless times that they’re not built for 1v1?

Against a single opponent? Yes, if they want to encourage people to engage in PvP instead of joining the zerg. It’s much like not playing mopping the floor with my 7 year-old daughter while teacher her to play checkers even though I easily could do so. Roflstomping is not how you get people interested in something. What overwhelming a person teaches a person is that the way to win is with superior numbers. When they are attacked by several people and downed quickly, I doubt they are seeing the skill and training involved in the coordinated attack. What they are seeing is being outnumbered.

If that’s too much to ask, then how about stopping when the player is downed, letting them get up, and doing things more slowly to teach them what’s happening and give them a chance to defend against it? If they run away, then finish them. But does one lone roamer really have much of a chance against a coordinated 5-man squad?

What do they have to lose? I can’t imagine a full PAXA team swarming a single player who doesn’t put up much of a fight is much of a challenge so what’s the point of it? If you want any sympathy for the awful experience it is having your small group zerged to death, then how about some sympathy for the lone player being swarmed by a kill squad instead of driving them to zerg? Sure, you get a bag of loot for killing them and you’ll never see them again unless they come back with the zerg.

Craig.2403:

Anyways, the problem with your post about siege is that the larger group ALWAYS has more siege. So, you see, while this small group builds 1 or 2 arrow carts (because that’s all they have supply to build), the zerg is quickly building 10… and how does this help the small group? You make it sound like only the small group gets siege, which is clearly wrong.

That’s not what I’ve seen on ET. I’ve seen very few zergs from anyone that put up more than rams or catapults and of those who do more, only a few put them up very quickly (IoJ did a good job with this a few times). The key to defense isn’t the defenders building siege weapons after the attackers show up and start building theirs. The key is to have the defensive siege already pre-built, and more than just a couple of arrow carts, have the slow-turning siege equipment pointed the right way, have people trained to hit things with it quickly, and have a few people inside and on the siege equipment when the zerg first shows up. As soon as they see opposing siege going up, blast it. It’s not that hard to destroy or make the site too hot for them to complete it if the site is prepared first.

Craig.2403:

Next, PAXA and KoM are specific guilds that are coordinated and built to effectively work together. Put PAXA vs Red Guard and what would happen? PAXA would get destroyed. Why? Because Red Guard has the same organization PAXA does, but with more people, thus they will come out on top. Equal skill and unequal numbers should mean that the bigger numbers wins, which is correct in this case.

And what happens when a group like PAXA jumps a lone roamer who is new to WvW?

Craig.2403:

However, when you put PAXA vs a pug zerg of more than 30 people, PAXA will still lose (unless the zerg is utterly terrible) even though PAXA clearly has better skill and organization. THIS SHOULD NOT BE THE CASE!!!

At some point, it should be nearly impossible to win and 6:1 being a near certain loss doesn’t seem unreasonable to me. I have seen well-trained teams defeat groups 2-3 times their size and that certainly seems reasonable to me. There also seems to be a lot of opportunity to pick off the tail of a zerg while they are moving from place to place, and I’ve seen that done and done it myself.

Craig.2403:

This is the point we are trying to get people to see. There is an imbalance in this game between player skill and group size that makes group size much more meaningful than player skill.

Do you think numbers should be entirely irrelevant and, if not, what do you think the correct ratio is for a smaller group of skilled players to defeat a larger number of unskilled pick-up players? 2:1? 3:1? 4:1? 5:1? 6:1? 10:1? 25:1? 50:1? 100:1? I’ve seen 2:1 and 3:1 and you say (below) that you’ve seen 8:1, so how high do you want it to be?

Craig.2403:

And yes, I’ve had 3 people kill a 25 man zerg before without siege just by using a series of choke points and great coordination against a pug zerg with no organization. Take into account, however, that this was not an open field fight, which is what we are discussing here.

Do you want the whole map to be one big flat featureless field, then?

Choke points are how outnumbered and skilled fighters have always taken out opponents that greatly outnumber them, and using terrain is a big part of skill, to, not simply knowing which sequence of buttons to push to get maximum DPS.

Ever hear of Leonidas of Sparta and his 300 Spartans at the Battle at Thermopylae (they made a little movie about it not too long ago)? The role of the terrain in that battle wasn’t entirely clear in the movie so maybe movies are to blame when they do things like turning the Battle of Stirling Bridge into an open field battle in Braveheart with no river in sight, but a lot of historical battles and skirmishes hinged on terrain and choke points (like Thermopylae, a narrow coastal pass, or Sterling Bridge) to allow underdogs to defeat much larger numbers. That’s simply part of how it’s done and should be part of how it’s done.

Craig.2403:

And, to drive the point home more: I went to the WvW general discussion forums to see what was there regariding this topic, and what do I see? First post: “Idea for encouraging small group play.” Hmmm, sound familiar? Then, curios, I check it out. The main criticism: “better idea: remove downed state and aoe cap.” Hmmm, this is getting freaky, it’s almost the exact arguments we are putting up, coming from completely different people, I wonder if it’s cause they’re legitimate.

They are legitimate, which may be why I actually agreed with those complaints. I specifically singled those two things out as legitimate complaints that I think should be changed, though I think the problem with the downed state is specifically rallying and that’s what I would change in WvW.

Craig.2403:

P.S. it’s not the amazing small man groups keeping other small man groups away. It’s the lack of reward, extremely high skill cap required to be successful against larger numbers, and lack of other small groups that make people run away from it. When TFI first started to get our group together, we asked for a 5v5 against PAXA to see how far we had to go. The complete and total clobbering they gave us didn’t make us give up, it only made us realize how far we had to go before we could truly call ourselves a party (which we still don’t yet). In fact, it had the opposite effect as what you described: it made us work harder. And you can’t say that these are just people who like a challenge, because about half of our group are more pve focussed than WvW focused, which as you know, is about as far from a challenge as you can get.

If everyone approached the game the way you do, there would be no shortage of the the type of play you are looking for, but they don’t and there is. And, yes, friends can drag other friends to try things that they wouldn’t normally try, as I’ve been encouraging my friends to try WvW.

Einstein is said to have defined insanity as trying the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. If you aren’t getting what you want out of the game now, why not try something a little different?

Jscull.2514:

We don’t want to only fight Zergs. You and all other Zergers make this mistake of assuming the current meta is only a “bit” off.

When you get done riding that straw man of yours to Oz, tell the Wizard I said hello, Dorothy.

If there is a bias here that’s affecting my ability to understand your paint, it’s not that I’m a “Zerger” but that I’m on ET. The times I’ve seen your guild on our borderlands when we were in the same match-up, there were plenty of small groups your side roaming around our borderlands for ET trying to take back supply camps and so on, If they fail to engage you, it’s because your group has a reputation for being very good and very deadly. You’ve earned it, but it makes plenty of people reluctant to face you and I can see that in the map chat. They don’t expect a challenge or a learning experience. They expect a roflstomp, and thus it’s better to wait for whatever passes for a zerg at the time to deal with you.

Things may be different on the high population servers, but there are times when raising a zerg of 20-30 people would require everyone ET has in WvW, if that may are even playing at the time.

Jscull.2514:

The argument is being made by many competitive players across the game in general is to encourage smaller group play AS WELL.

And I’m fine with that, but how does stomping lone roamers with 5 guys and even evenly sized groups with less skilled players encourage that? Figure out how to make the experience of losing to you guys suck less, and it might encourage people to try again. Maybe only down them without killing them the first time and play with them a bit unless they run. Maybe attack them with even numbers or figure out how to play without a stealthed thief in the mix, which seems to be the thing that freaks people out the most in the forums because they don’t know how to stop it. The situation isn’t ideal but try to work with what you have to make it better.

Jscull.2514:

So telling me how best to “deter a Zerg” isn’t of interest as open field we take 20-25 couple times a week.

I’m not asking you to do the de-zerging personally. My argument was that removing siege removes the tools by which players in general can discourage zerging. If the AoE limit stinks, then removing the equipment that actually can get around that limit isn’t going to make things better. I’m not asking PAXA personally to spend a week camping a tower to discourage zergs.

Jscull.2514:

Anet needs to bring skilled players back to open world pvp or it is undoubtedly inevitable the next game that comes out will plummet wvw’s population. Tell us we are wrong all you want to, when you have no one to Zerg anymore… Let me know how fun those “objectives” are to take and how “epic” you feel.

Given how few like-minded groups you’ve identified in your other tread, I’m not sure the population will plummet all that much, especially if the zergers actually enjoy their zerging exactly the way it is. For every person complaining about the AoE cap and downed state, there are plenty more asking for various things (thieves, arrow carts, etc.) be nerfed to make the came easier for them so they die less. As much as it may disappoint you and even me, there are a lot of people out there who are quite happy pressing 1 to win, which is why so many people transfer to the winning servers. The goal should be to identify and encourage the people who will appreciate skill and challenge and I can’t imagine that making their first experiences an outnumbered stomping that they are helpless to stop is going to encourage that.

And what you seem to be missing is that zerging isn’t what I enjoy. I spend much of my time solo roaming, trying out unconventional tatics, and trying to fortify and hold what we have. I’d much rather be sitting in a tower or keep melting a zerg, and that will happen even if PAXA goes elsewhere.

But what it sounds like you and others really need is for ANet to give you a map that contains some terrain and perhaps some basic mobs and resource nodes and then define sides by guild and/or party such that anyone in another guild and/or party is red and fair game. This should be fairly simple for ANet to do. They could take the 5 starting maps, which are fairly large and diverse in terrain, and get rid of all of the events an everything other than (A) the basic mobs, (B) the resource nodes (expanded in range to cover all six tiers), © the jumping puzzles, and (D) the terrain and let every server enter to have open GvG and PvP fights on their own terms. Or is that still totally misunderstanding what you want?

I just came in here to ask DR to kindly pummel SF into the ground so we can beat them in rank for next week. Would be kinda funny :p

Ynot.8397:

I just came in here to ask DR to kindly pummel SF into the ground so we can beat them in rank for next week. Would be kinda funny :p

If that happens, it will be at least in part because SF would rather attack us in our borderlands than DR, which not only doesn’t deny DR any points bukittens the ET people up taking stuff back from SF instead of attacking DR on the Eternal Battlegrounds or their own map. That seems to be exactly why FC and ET do so badly when they are in the same match-up and why this match-up is going badly for both ET and SF. The way to get more points is for the other two servers to attack the server with the most points, not the weakest server. In fact, that’s exactly how DR won last week.

Berk.8561:

In fact, that’s exactly how DR won last week.

Do you actually believe this?

We won.

Berk.8561:

Ynot.8397:

I just came in here to ask DR to kindly pummel SF into the ground so we can beat them in rank for next week. Would be kinda funny :p

If that happens, it will be at least in part because SF would rather attack us in our borderlands than DR, which not only doesn’t deny DR any points bukittens the ET people up taking stuff back from SF instead of attacking DR on the Eternal Battlegrounds or their own map. That seems to be exactly why FC and ET do so badly when they are in the same match-up and why this match-up is going badly for both ET and SF. The way to get more points is for the other two servers to attack the server with the most points, not the weakest server. In fact, that’s exactly how DR won last week.

So are you saying you would mess up SF for me

Gab Superstar.4059:

Do you actually believe this?

Yes, DR teamed up with ET to attack IoJ and focused on IoJ rather than ET for much of the week.

lol. teamed up with? hardly. at least till the final hours before reset. IoJ and DR were having their own little lover’s quarrel and mostly left ET to it’s own devices for almost the whole matchup. there was no "team" till the last day when there was a... tenuous at best (there was still plenty of killing each other going on)... truce between DR and ET to take all of IoJ’s stuff, putting DR in first.

i’m not even sure why we agreed. it put DR in first, but we still stayed in 3rd. meh.

Thanks for the GvG matches BFF and Bags, its rare to get so many matches was alot of fun.

Berk.8561:

If that happens, it will be at least in part because SF would rather attack us in our borderlands than DR

Obviously I can’t speak for my entire server, but every time I’ve been on, our Commanders(or at least the ones I see) are actively directing us away from ET and in our voip channel, they’re telling us to leave ET alone and focus on DR.

Myself and my guild actually have never stepped foot into ET’s BL this week, and instead have been focusing 100% on EBG and DR BL (And, if I may add, you guys need to defend your stuff better. I almost never see your third of EBG green, although obviously I don’t know the conditions on your server, and you may just lack the people to do so, in which case, you have my sympathy cause I remember the feeling.)

katz.8376:

lol. teamed up with? hardly. at least till the final hours before reset. IoJ and DR were having their own little lover’s quarrel and mostly left ET to it’s own devices for almost the whole matchup. there was no “team” till the last day when there was a… tenuous at best (there was still plenty of killing each other going on)… truce between DR and ET to take all of IoJ’s stuff, putting DR in first.

Yes, the official team-up didn’t happen until the very end, but I think the observation remains valid that DR got themselves to the point where they could take the lead by focusing on IoJ rather than ET. When the second place server focuses on ET, it forces ET to defend against them which leaves the first place server to do whatever it wants. It’s tempting to go after the weaker target, but it doesn’t help close on the first place server.

Ynot.8397:

So are you saying you would mess up SF for me

I’m saying that if FC and ET find themselves up against SF next week, both would do better to focus on SF than each other.

Aquilus.9423:

Obviously I can’t speak for my entire server, but every time I’ve been on, our Commanders(or at least the ones I see) are actively directing us away from ET and in our voip channel, they’re telling us to leave ET alone and focus on DR.

Tonight, while I was on WvW in EBG, we spent quite a bit of time fighting off a small SF zerg turning over stuff in our third of EBG instead of attacking DR and I see plenty of red popping up on our borderlands throughout the day.

We’re a low population server and we often can’t defend more than one map well, so if we keep getting pulled back to our borderlands to defend or retake, we’re not fighting as hard in EBG.

There seems to be a point in the day around 4PM – 6PM US Eastern time when DR has been walking all over us and I’m not sure if that’s because we have bad coverage or they have great coverage since I’m watching it via mos.millenium.org rather than being logged in. On the other hand, in US prime time, we seem to be able to take our third of EBG and even go a bit further than that.

Great fights tonight in ET at SW Tower/Camp from both SF and ET. You guys just kept it coming; sometimes both of you at the same time. Kept us on our toes.

dat Danelon fight…

Berk.8561:

Gab Superstar.4059:

Do you actually believe this?

Yes, DR teamed up with ET to attack IoJ and focused on IoJ rather than ET for much of the week.

My bad, didn’t read your post thoroughly.

Another week, another fight night I can’t go to.

Well thanks for the fights guys I’ll see you around, maybe.

Berk.8561:

Aquilus.9423:

Obviously I can’t speak for my entire server, but every time I’ve been on, our Commanders(or at least the ones I see) are actively directing us away from ET and in our voip channel, they’re telling us to leave ET alone and focus on DR.

Tonight, while I was on WvW in EBG, we spent quite a bit of time fighting off a small SF zerg turning over stuff in our third of EBG instead of attacking DR and I see plenty of red popping up on our borderlands throughout the day.

As a former ET, and the person that started the whole Big brother, middle brother, little brother craze…I feel that I should point out a couple of things here…

1. SF is meh right now…As always they (the mindless masses not the organized hardcore wvw’ers) flow the path of least resistance.
2. The idea is, and has been proven by ET this week, that either DR or SF is gonna control your 1/3 of EB at varying times of the day. Because of a dwindle in WvW interest, DR has fielded superior numbers this week in comparison to SF. SO, they have been fairly capable of defending their 1/3 if we pushed it, and still capping ET’s 1/3 nearly simultaneously.
3. 90% of people on SF understand the situation on ET, but in a 3-way match we can’t attack our self, so it is kind of expected that ET is gonna get hit somewhat.
4. Someone above on SF mentioned that we have been saying on voip to leave ET be, and that is correct. Hell a few times over the weekend we even went and flipped ET’s T3 towers on EB that had been controlled by DR, then promptly left them so that they could be taken back by ET.
5. The downside of the 3-way match is pretty much always one of these issues: Servers 1&2 are doubleteaming 3 because 3 can’t maintain its holdings, servers 2 & 3 are working against server 1 because server 1 is severely overpowered, or some variation of the two.

But what it sounds like you and others really need is for ANet to give you a map that contains some terrain and perhaps some basic mobs and resource nodes and then define sides by guild and/or party such that anyone in another guild and/or party is red and fair game. This should be fairly simple for ANet to do. They could take the 5 starting maps, which are fairly large and diverse in terrain, and get rid of all of the events an everything other than (A) the basic mobs, (B) the resource nodes (expanded in range to cover all six tiers), © the jumping puzzles, and (D) the terrain and let every server enter to have open GvG and PvP fights on their own terms. Or is that still totally misunderstanding what you want?

I wonder if maybe an instanced area like this, with most or all of the PPT objectives removed and requirement for party membership to enter, would give the 5-man groups a place to all gather and go after each other without fear of true zergs coming in? Maybe limit access to a set number of parties so you couldn’t have a bunch of parties ally to form a virtual zerg. Soloists could still join as 1-man parties, but they’d know exactly what they’re getting into, and PAXA and like-minded groups could find all the group fights without the baggage associated with the bigger WvW world.

Disable the downed state while you’re at it, I think. Or maybe that’s asking too much ;-)

King Amadaeus.8619:

Berk.8561:

Aquilus.9423:

Obviously I can’t speak for my entire server, but every time I’ve been on, our Commanders(or at least the ones I see) are actively directing us away from ET and in our voip channel, they’re telling us to leave ET alone and focus on DR.

Tonight, while I was on WvW in EBG, we spent quite a bit of time fighting off a small SF zerg turning over stuff in our third of EBG instead of attacking DR and I see plenty of red popping up on our borderlands throughout the day.

As a former ET, and the person that started the whole Big brother, middle brother, little brother craze…I feel that I should point out a couple of things here…

1. SF is meh right now…As always they (the mindless masses not the organized hardcore wvw’ers) flow the path of least resistance.
2. The idea is, and has been proven by ET this week, that either DR or SF is gonna control your 1/3 of EB at varying times of the day. Because of a dwindle in WvW interest, DR has fielded superior numbers this week in comparison to SF. SO, they have been fairly capable of defending their 1/3 if we pushed it, and still capping ET’s 1/3 nearly simultaneously.
3. 90% of people on SF understand the situation on ET, but in a 3-way match we can’t attack our self, so it is kind of expected that ET is gonna get hit somewhat.
4. Someone above on SF mentioned that we have been saying on voip to leave ET be, and that is correct. Hell a few times over the weekend we even went and flipped ET’s T3 towers on EB that had been controlled by DR, then promptly left them so that they could be taken back by ET.
5. The downside of the 3-way match is pretty much always one of these issues: Servers 1&2 are doubleteaming 3 because 3 can’t maintain its holdings, servers 2 & 3 are working against server 1 because server 1 is severely overpowered, or some variation of the two.

ET is hit or miss right now…ranging from that pic i linked around a month ago that alot of you have seen by now of a great big whopping 17 people from across all 4 maps standing in LA after WvW went down for a patch…at primetime on a friday…. to a pic taken from HoD’s point of view from a couple weeks later on a saturday of my guild leader commanding a zerg that must have been 50 strong at least. unfortunately, the former is much more common than the latter.

the first few days of this matchup i would wake up in the morning and most/all of our keeps would be gone overnight and ALL of EB was blue. the last few days i’ve woken up and we owned our corner of EB and more or less our whole BL (there’s always camp flippers). nice surprise in the morning.

now that i’m actually thinking about it, i have noticed that, altho SF is attacking and capping our stuff.. it’s all minor stuff…camp here, a tower there.. there hasn’t really been a concerted concentrated push to our keeps from SF all week that i can remember (can’t speak for crap that happens when i’m offline) i saw our keep in EB red once, but they took it directly from DR, not us. and you took Stonemist from us, but hey, that’s Stonemist. XD

in light of your post… pride wants to say “we don’t need no stinkin help!” but reality says “….thanks.”

keep on fighting the good fight, big bro, and we’ll try to do the same. and kitten you guys can still field some impressive numbers, even with your “decline”. XD

probably see you all on the field monday,.. >mutters rude unmentionable things about her craptastic internet on weekends<

Best Korea will rise again.

Tiglie.5834:

This is going over the heads of pretty much everyone in the thread outside of the typical 3-4 groups that enjoy small group play……………we could give two kittens about wiping zergs. We just want to be able to punish the zerg play style, and the mechanics discourage this…..WHY YOU ASK???? So we get more people in smaller groups, encouraging challenging and coordinated gameplay.

Again, another DAoC example. 8 – mans originally formed with pbaoe bomb groups. To zerg bust, and the mechanics enabled it. Soon, other groups realized this was possible and split off into 8 mans too. Next thing you know there were 20 8 mans running around trying to zerg bust. They would run into each other and realize that was way more fun, and the meta switched to assist trains. It developed into a thriving 8 man scene and guess what……the zergs still got to play their game too. It was just that the mechanics allowed BOTH to exist.

In GW2 there is absolutely no downside other than sheer and utter boredom to zerging. And if you people are too niave to see the lack of longevity in this mindless keep trading that is promoted……..you will soon realize when the FIRST new option comes along and you are stuck running around with 5 people total in the entire borderland.

THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Kitten. Is anyone else glad it’s reset day? I’m exhausted from reading all these long kitten posts.

Zeroskillz.4983:

Kitten. Is anyone else glad it’s reset day? I’m exhausted from reading all these long kitten posts.

You actually read them?

Zeroskillz.4983:

Kitten… all these long kitten posts.

Like mine?

(I should post more funny pictures like what I did before on our forum.)

Well, DR, ET see you guys on the battlefield soon. I’m liking SF so far, very nice community in WvW and I like the size battles you guys have in this tier. My guild won’t have many in tonight’s reset as we don’t have enough money to get all of our players, but you’ll see us next reset. Excited to fight you guys, and good luck!!!

Good clean gaming this week (for a change). Let’s keep it up.

Oozo.7856:

Zeroskillz.4983:

Kitten. Is anyone else glad it’s reset day? I’m exhausted from reading all these long kitten posts.

You actually read them?

i skimmed/skipped. but yeah. tiresome. XD

Oooz.7856:

Zeroskillz.4983:

Kitten. Is anyone else glad it’s reset day? I’m exhausted from reading all these long kitten posts.

You actually read them?

That hurt Oooz.

Insane Pancakez.9182:

Well, DR, ET see you guys on the battlefield soon. I’m liking SF so far, very nice community in WvW and I like the size battles you guys have in this tier. My guild won’t have many in tonight’s reset as we don’t have enough money to get all of our players, but you’ll see us next reset. Excited to fight you guys, and good luck!!!

What are you doing so far away from Ehmry Bay? I thought I hit the wrong post at first and checked it twice! Wow! When did you move to SF? I’m still fighting the good fight for ET – Have we been fighting and I didn’t know?!

Ugh I have been trying to play all day but the lag in WvW today is out of control :o(

sioux.1653:

Insane Pancakez.9182:

Well, DR, ET see you guys on the battlefield soon. I’m liking SF so far, very nice community in WvW and I like the size battles you guys have in this tier. My guild won’t have many in tonight’s reset as we don’t have enough money to get all of our players, but you’ll see us next reset. Excited to fight you guys, and good luck!!!

What are you doing so far away from Ehmry Bay? I thought I hit the wrong post at first and checked it twice! Wow! When did you move to SF? I’m still fighting the good fight for ET – Have we been fighting and I didn’t know?!

Hey, blue!!! I got bored on Ehmry Bay with a few other reasons, and decided to leave. Plus I’ve always wanted to start on a t8 server with my guild. So about 20-30 of us are transferring here, maybe more. But we haven’t fought yet xD We just got about 8 of our members over so far, so you might see a few VS tonight at reset, but not enough to kill any zergs with just our group. But looking forward to the reset after this one!

Insane Pancakez.9182:

sioux.1653:

Insane Pancakez.9182:

Well, DR, ET see you guys on the battlefield soon. I’m liking SF so far, very nice community in WvW and I like the size battles you guys have in this tier. My guild won’t have many in tonight’s reset as we don’t have enough money to get all of our players, but you’ll see us next reset. Excited to fight you guys, and good luck!!!

What are you doing so far away from Ehmry Bay? I thought I hit the wrong post at first and checked it twice! Wow! When did you move to SF? I’m still fighting the good fight for ET – Have we been fighting and I didn’t know?!

Hey, blue!!! I got bored on Ehmry Bay with a few other reasons, and decided to leave. Plus I’ve always wanted to start on a t8 server with my guild. So about 20-30 of us are transferring here, maybe more. But we haven’t fought yet xD We just got about 8 of our members over so far, so you might see a few VS tonight at reset, but not enough to kill any zergs with just our group. But looking forward to the reset after this one!

SF is a good server, you picked well. They have some awesome people there. They need more people to bring their levels back up to what they were. I wish you had moved to ET! But whatever, if we’re matched up, I’m so going to hunt you down and kill you. I say that with affection!

sioux.1653:

Insane Pancakez.9182:

sioux.1653:

Insane Pancakez.9182:

Well, DR, ET see you guys on the battlefield soon. I’m liking SF so far, very nice community in WvW and I like the size battles you guys have in this tier. My guild won’t have many in tonight’s reset as we don’t have enough money to get all of our players, but you’ll see us next reset. Excited to fight you guys, and good luck!!!

What are you doing so far away from Ehmry Bay? I thought I hit the wrong post at first and checked it twice! Wow! When did you move to SF? I’m still fighting the good fight for ET – Have we been fighting and I didn’t know?!

Hey, blue!!! I got bored on Ehmry Bay with a few other reasons, and decided to leave. Plus I’ve always wanted to start on a t8 server with my guild. So about 20-30 of us are transferring here, maybe more. But we haven’t fought yet xD We just got about 8 of our members over so far, so you might see a few VS tonight at reset, but not enough to kill any zergs with just our group. But looking forward to the reset after this one!

SF is a good server, you picked well. They have some awesome people there. They need more people to bring their levels back up to what they were. I wish you had moved to ET! But whatever, if we’re matched up, I’m so going to hunt you down and kill you. I say that with affection!

Rofl xD <3 you. And tbh you guys will probably rofl stomp my guild tonight. I’ll be lucky if we field 10 as we don’t have the funds to all transfer. But you win or lose you won’t find any of my guildies being a sore loser, or a kitteny winner. Btw what guild are you in that I should look out for? And what are some of the best guilds in WvW between FC, ET, and DR?

in ET, watch out for BS small group. TAC and BCN are pretty good medium groups, and hey, i’ma plug my own guild PK is slowly but surely building a WvW presence. (also medium size)

in FC Yarr is quite skilled.

DR i’m not sure. VP maybe?