Guild Wars 2

BlackDevil.9268:

It’s like I’m talking to people who play an mmorpg for the first time…

Quite possible.

Gw2 pushed a lot on the casual/firstMMO crowd.

Now, how many of them are actually here on forums and have that excuse to say nonsense, it’s another story.

The only problem with defensive/healing specs/builds/gear is that it takes forever to kill anything, which becomes a problem when fighting groups.

Phy.2913:

The only problem with defensive/healing specs/builds/gear is that it takes forever to kill anything, which becomes a problem when fighting groups.

Those builds are not built towards killing as a primary objective. Some of them even build their characters thinking they can assist and support those zerkers who build for the killing. I know, they are naive as hell and this is not the game for them; there is no team play here and trying to help is actually considered selfish (gw2 lologic).

Point is, what you see as a problem, it is not for them. They expect the fight to last longer but to reduce the casualties. They get excited not by looking at the enemy bar going down quickly but looking as their friend hp bar not doing it.

Besides, the tower is not a scripted boss fight where you can play Simon and predict their attacks. You never know when an elite mob might spawn at your back and that unpredictability is what makes it fun. In this kind of playground, zerk players are finally experiencing some real risk (in some points of the tower) they don’t really experience in dungeons they know by hard.

I definitely agree with the OP. This is the first living story event I’ve done since dragon bash. It was fun to be able to do this on my WvW guard build. Didn’t die once.

Mesket.5728:

Phy.2913:

The only problem with defensive/healing specs/builds/gear is that it takes forever to kill anything, which becomes a problem when fighting groups.

Those builds are not built towards killing as a primary objective. Some of them even build their characters thinking they can assist and support those zerkers who build for the killing. I know, they are naive as hell and this is not the game for them; there is no team play here and trying to help is actually considered selfish (gw2 lologic).

Point is, what you see as a problem, it is not for them. They expect the fight to last longer but to reduce the casualties. They get excited not by looking at the enemy bar going down quickly but looking as their friend hp bar not doing it.

Besides, the tower is not a scripted boss fight where you can play Simon and predict their attacks. You never know when an elite mob might spawn at your back and that unpredictability is what makes it fun. In this kind of playground, zerk players are finally experiencing some real risk (in some points of the tower) they don’t really experience in dungeons they know by hard.

And when you’re running around by yourself fights are boring and excessively long, hence the reason everyone runs dps builds in open world.

Eventually people will realize there’s a difference between the open world mobs that are, by design (especially for the leveling process) relatively easy to take down and mobs that are more specialized for tailored content and, also by design, meant to use a little more thought.

There is this confusion about builds and gear. Yes they are related, but they are not the same thing. Builds are about traits, gear is just gear. You can wear berserker armour and not run a fully offensive build. We need to get rid of this notion that anyone who wears berserker gear has no defensive traits and abilities. A wall of reflection does not reflect any better when placed by a guardian in cleric gear than when placed by a guardian in berserker gear. In fact, I believe the opposite is true and even better with assassin’s.

PS: I also had no problems in the tower in berserker gear – but I only did the first 2 lvls, then had to leave to go to a teq kill to defend turrets in said berserker gear.

Meh, it favors swiftness and vigor builds. Tho i guess it could be considered defensive in a wide sense…

Phy.2913:

Mesket.5728:

Phy.2913:

The only problem with defensive/healing specs/builds/gear is that it takes forever to kill anything, which becomes a problem when fighting groups.

Those builds are not built towards killing as a primary objective. Some of them even build their characters thinking they can assist and support those zerkers who build for the killing. I know, they are naive as hell and this is not the game for them; there is no team play here and trying to help is actually considered selfish (gw2 lologic).

Point is, what you see as a problem, it is not for them. They expect the fight to last longer but to reduce the casualties. They get excited not by looking at the enemy bar going down quickly but looking as their friend hp bar not doing it.

Besides, the tower is not a scripted boss fight where you can play Simon and predict their attacks. You never know when an elite mob might spawn at your back and that unpredictability is what makes it fun. In this kind of playground, zerk players are finally experiencing some real risk (in some points of the tower) they don’t really experience in dungeons they know by hard.

And when you’re running around by yourself fights are boring and excessively long, hence the reason everyone runs dps builds in open world.

How long and boring fights are, is still a matter of personal opinion. Not everyone consider fun the same things. I, myself, like to play full zerk as well but I also enjoy using my WvW build in PVE and pull 26348724 mobs on my head. For me it is fun and there is no place for arguments. I won’t drag others into this on a dungeon for example, but this Living Story opens the door for other builds to be perfectly viable and enjoyable.

There is alot of mixed views here, but I will say this: Berserker gear is not what it seems to be. You an wear full Berserker gear, and still do barely any damage. This is because its mostly about your build. Gear just compensates for a build that has to put alot of points into defensive traits to get special grandmasters, fall damage (e.g for Grenth and the like), profession recharge, boon duration and things like that.

Furthermore, its possible to have a much higher damage on defensive gear than you may imagine. Because an offensive build on defensive gear will do roughly the same amount of damage as a defensive build on Berserker gear. Its all about what your profession can afford, what traits and skills you need to carry, and what you are facing (for example, Tequatl can’t be critically hit, reducing all Zerk gear to PTV, except without the T & V).

The exponential effects from damage on Zerk gear only occur with a well thought-out, matching build, especially one stacking % bonuses to base damage with the correct usage of runes and sigils to go with it. Similarly, Zerk enthusiasts vastly underestimate what a defensive combination (like Knight/Valk) can do with a good build.

BlackDevil.9268:

Duke Blackrose.4981:

BlackDevil.9268:

VOLKON.1290:

BlackDevil.9268:

You know, you can kill everything in the tower with full zerker too. You just need to ‘’learn to dodge’‘. Would be fun when they would release a dungeon with boss timers so you actually need to run dps specced.
Until they do that, I don’t think I’ll enjoy PvE in this game a lot…

Ugh… a dps race type of boss would be horrible for this game. It would only reinforce the fallacy that dps trumps all in GW2. I like that they’re working to break that bad habit that lesser MMOs have cursed upon so many.

Why?
The whole game is already based around ’’dps’’, especially PvE.
The real ‘’pve pro’s’’ only run in full zerker to finish everything as quickly as possible. Wouldn’t blame them tbh, getting rewards the fastest way is pretty much the only thing that keeps pve interesting in this game, the combat itself is just horribly motivated to make a macro to spam 1, move with 1 hand and kitten with the other one. That’s about the skill you need to play PvE in GW2.
The only way to fix that is to put a time limit on bosses so people actually start figuring out what else there is besides #1 spam and troll defensive builds.

So yeah, I don’t really see your point.

That’s precisely the problem.

Basing the entire game around dps creates uninteresting fights, invalidates all but one set of gear, and reduces the game’s skill ceiling to learning how to dodge. If twitch reflexes and an eye for telegraphs are all that’s needed to be “pro” at this game, then this game is not worth playing.

So tell me, what does require skill then? Running full soldiers and tank all damage that you’re supposed to dodge? Right……

And you’re missing the point entirely. I am not implying that tank gear as a substitute for dodging requires skill, because it doesn’t. My argument is this – the main source of the game’s skill ceiling should lie in your usage of positioning, skills, and combo fields to support your team and yourself. The skill of a player should never be dictated by the type of gear they wear, because that leads to shallow gameplay and invalidated item nomenclatures – which is precisely the case in Guild Wars 2 at the moment.

In an ideal situation, that tank should be capitalizing on his gear to do some form of skilled play that is entirely different from his zerker teammate. “But isn’t that traditional gameplay?” Not necessarily. Traditional tanks tend to operate on shallow taunt mechanics that aren’t particularly immersive or logical. Guild Wars 2’s soft-trinity is meant to be “damage, control, and support,” but the control aspect of the soft-trinity tends to be non-existent thanks to the defiant buff and dumbed-down build system, as well as poor dungeon design. Ideally, Guild Wars 2’s PvE content should be designed such that characters in tank gear contribute to the team through body-blocking and obstructing projectiles meant for their squishier teammates (as opposed to taunting foes and holding aggro). If not for this use, tank gear serves no purpose, and may as well be removed from the game. Skills such as Line of Warding should be much more important than they are from a PvE standpoint.

Now you tell me which takes more skill – twitch dodging telegraphs or actively defending your teammates with well-selected, well-timed, and well-placed character positioning and skill usages.

Another important note is that Guild Wars 2 was never intended to not have roles, but rather to lack set roles. There is no such thing as a dedicated healing class or dedicated healer, but there are support-oriented builds that are simply not seeing enough use because Zerkers do the same thing almost as well and with better damage.

Perhaps the best illustration would lie in the first Guild Wars, which is often held up as one of the most skill-intensive games on the market. Clever use of skills and synergy with teammates was the core of the game’s skill requirement, not waiting on a telegraph to dodge. The end result? Deeper, more interesting PvE content.

Of course, the first Guild Wars didn’t bother with item nomenclatures; instead you’d distinguish your character through your skill build, attributes, and runes – all of which were more interesting than Berserker vs. Soldier’s.