Guild Wars 2

I honestly am not sure what to think at this point. The devs have repeatedly stated that they recognize the game is zerg heavy or even zerg dependent and that it’s something they are taking steps to address. And then they release an update that is, for all intents and purposes, a big “zerg this or suffer” sign.

StriderShinryu.6923:

I honestly am not sure what to think at this point. The devs have repeatedly stated that they recognize the game is zerg heavy or even zerg dependent and that it’s something they are taking steps to address. And then they release an update that is, for all intents and purposes, a big “zerg this or suffer” sign.

Define zerg for this tower, because a group of 5-6 players can walk up this tower just fine, and in WvW the zergs there will laugh at that size of a group

StriderShinryu.6923:

I honestly am not sure what to think at this point. The devs have repeatedly stated that they recognize the game is zerg heavy or even zerg dependent and that it’s something they are taking steps to address. And then they release an update that is, for all intents and purposes, a big “zerg this or suffer” sign.

This type of content is easiest to churn out. Instanced content, and more balance will take more time, and more testing to get right.

When you DO get into a Zerg, the content isn’t that bad. But the thing is getting into the zerg in the first place. It’s another type of RNG ;-)

As a warrior clad in celestial gear and a support oriented spec, being someone who is not a pro-player by any means, I had a relatively simple, and fun, time solo’ing this tower multiple times. I went through with an up-leveled elementalist friend, and it was actually a little easy.

People who complain about this content need to l2p. Bring stunbreakers, reliable condi-cleansing, and a bit of healing. You’ll be fine.

I have given up on thisLS. I do not have time or a desire to wait around for a zerg and in my opinion you shouldn’t need a zerg to move through a level. Taking on an instanced portion ok, but moving to those instances? nty

Garreth MacLeod.4158:

I have given up on thisLS. I do not have time or a desire to wait around for a zerg and in my opinion you shouldn’t need a zerg to move through a level. Taking on an instanced portion ok, but moving to those instances? nty

guest to TC. you won’t need to wait for a zerg because the zerg is 24/7

Manijin.3428:

As a warrior clad in celestial gear and a support oriented spec, being someone who is not a pro-player by any means, I had a relatively simple, and fun, time solo’ing this tower multiple times. I went through with an up-leveled elementalist friend, and it was actually a little easy.

People who complain about this content need to l2p. Bring stunbreakers, reliable condi-cleansing, and a bit of healing. You’ll be fine.

What server are you on? I guarantee if you miss the zerg by a couple of minutes on a populated server it will not be “easy” to solo the tower. You run into 4-5 vets with an elite and some regular mobs all the time. A ranged alpha strike can take you out in a blink. (Well … maybe not on a warrior :P but that upleveled ele would be hurting).

Not picking on you but people are obviously having very different experiences based on time of day and server size, and if something’s scaled up for that big group of people you just missed, it’s often bad times — even with stunbreaker, condi cleanse and a speed buff.

Rainshine.5493:

What server are you on? I guarantee if you miss the zerg by a couple of minutes on a populated server it will not be “easy” to solo the tower. You run into 4-5 vets with an elite and some regular mobs all the time. A ranged alpha strike can take you out in a blink. (Well … maybe not on a warrior :P but that upleveled ele would be hurting).

Not picking on you but people are obviously having very different experiences based on time of day and server size, and if something’s scaled up for that big group of people you just missed, it’s often bad times — even with stunbreaker, condi cleanse and a speed buff.

I think you hit the nail on the head here. IMO this LS has done a lot of very good things:

- The instances are well balanced. I’ve done them solo and in groups, and I thought the scaling was good. At least for a level 80 player. Not so sure about upleveled players.
- The tower encourages survivable builds, which increases build diversity in the game.
- The tower and the toxic kraits are beautiful in their own sick way.
- The content is a significant variation compared to the rest of the game.
- The achievements are not too time consuming, and getting the toxic krait mini takes a bit of skill. The achievement rewards are nice.
- The instances resonate with your personal story.

However, most of this means little if you enter the tower after a group has run through, and end up fighting endless veterans and elites in the same spot. You will die a lot. I you’re lucky and don’t, you won’t understand what this thread is complaining about.

Mercypsy.9602:

- The instances are well balanced. I’ve done them solo and in groups, and I thought the scaling was good. At least for a level 80 player. Not so sure about upleveled players.

Did the repeatable on a level 43 necro in a group of 5 (rest were 80s and one 70) and we got the krait mini for nobody dying. There were a couple of close calls for me but overall I thought it was fine and was never downed. Done some of the nightmare chambers solo and while I certainly couldn’t face tank they were doable too first try.

I solo’d my way up to the top the first time on Thief. Soloing the doors with the champions is impossible though but others had cleared them already and killing the enemies at the end of path 3 was soloable for me and there were always a few other players straggling around to help. Although as squishy as I am, even in my soldier gear I was using, it was too risky to try to revive people alone in most spots. If people were actually clearing I’d help and after I did finish it I tried to help and encourage others to clear to end instead of run, which is more enjoyable and you get key drops.

An interesting thing I discovered that helped me get back up when I died trying to rez a wiped zerg to an unfortunate Last Refuge proc then getting hit with 7 stacks of confusion and being unable to restealth to drop them and heal(fricken /sigh. that &#$ traitseriouslygetridofitfortheloveofgod) is if you’re in a party and someone enters an instance and you join them from popup window it revives you and when you leave you’re back at original spot alive. :s Probably not working as intended but it’s there. XD

Ronah.2869:

Of course, some will go with the “solution”: join a guild and ask hep. This kind of answer strips you off your dignity as a hero and transforms you into a beggar at others mercy

Precisely. We are the heroes, we should be on par with the Champs. It is we heroes who should have to be raided by the mobs and not the mobs who have to be raided by us.

I gotta say, it’s A LOT easier to do when it’s 100% solo and you don’t have bumbling idiots constantly training mobs into you…. The only section of the 3rd part that becomes difficult solo is near the end if that kittening group event portal is up and you gotta cleave your way through watch works, AND aetherblade AND toxic alliance members…

Also, 100% fight your way through, and more importantly stop and rest at EVERY air filter, kill as many mobs as you can while standing on the air filter too, it makes it a lot easier.

My main is a thief. As a person who enjoys playing the stealthy character, I do tend to favor running. It was always really fun when I could run through (with the assistance of infiltrator arrow and some traits) and then stealth, and I was safe. I still enjoy running jumping puzzles with my main because I can use stealth to grab the end chest without having to fight the mob standing on top of it. I guess I just can’t get over the fact that stealth no longer resets agro.

A lot of you people equate difficulty with massive amounts of mobs. Having 15 mobs swamp a player is not difficult nor fun/challenging in anyway. It is lazy design.

Nothing in this game is truly “difficult content” it is all Zerg Content.

Vanthian.9267:

A lot of you people equate difficulty with massive amounts of mobs. Having 15 mobs swamp a player is not difficult nor fun/challenging in anyway. It is lazy design.

Nothing in this game is truly “difficult content” it is all Zerg Content.

If you are not running through trying to skip anything there is absolutely no scenario you’ll get swarmed by more than 5 mobs, let alone kittening 15!! The only time you’ll get swarmed by 5 is if you get unlucky with a patrol anyway.

Rainshine.5493:

Manijin.3428:

As a warrior clad in celestial gear and a support oriented spec, being someone who is not a pro-player by any means, I had a relatively simple, and fun, time solo’ing this tower multiple times. I went through with an up-leveled elementalist friend, and it was actually a little easy.

People who complain about this content need to l2p. Bring stunbreakers, reliable condi-cleansing, and a bit of healing. You’ll be fine.

What server are you on? I guarantee if you miss the zerg by a couple of minutes on a populated server it will not be “easy” to solo the tower. You run into 4-5 vets with an elite and some regular mobs all the time. A ranged alpha strike can take you out in a blink. (Well … maybe not on a warrior :P but that upleveled ele would be hurting).

Not picking on you but people are obviously having very different experiences based on time of day and server size, and if something’s scaled up for that big group of people you just missed, it’s often bad times — even with stunbreaker, condi cleanse and a speed buff.

Hehe, I’m on Jade Quarry. :P A low pop server I am not. Miss the zerg all the time. Just gotta know how to pull small groups and draw enemies to safe zones out of aggro range. I’ve got some experience doing that in lots of MMO’s, so that may help, but I can’t see it helping much.

Durzlla.6295:

If you are not running through trying to skip anything there is absolutely no scenario you’ll get swarmed by more than 5 mobs, let alone kittening 15!! The only time you’ll get swarmed by 5 is if you get unlucky with a patrol anyway.

Try to do a Siege Commander Offshoot solo. Then come back and tell me you only agro 5.

Guys I can’t solo this dungeon on my own ANet your game kitten kitten kitten

Durzlla.6295:

Vanthian.9267:

A lot of you people equate difficulty with massive amounts of mobs. Having 15 mobs swamp a player is not difficult nor fun/challenging in anyway. It is lazy design.

Nothing in this game is truly “difficult content” it is all Zerg Content.

If you are not running through trying to skip anything there is absolutely no scenario you’ll get swarmed by more than 5 mobs, let alone kittening 15!! The only time you’ll get swarmed by 5 is if you get unlucky with a patrol anyway.

I might not be running through, and only fight 5 foes, when somebody else runs by and bring the other 10. Oh, and why should an elite spawn when I’m all alone in an area? I thought those were spawning when you have a zerg (so the zerg doesn’t spawn champs all the time).

Vanthian.9267:

Durzlla.6295:

If you are not running through trying to skip anything there is absolutely no scenario you’ll get swarmed by more than 5 mobs, let alone kittening 15!! The only time you’ll get swarmed by 5 is if you get unlucky with a patrol anyway.

Try to do a Siege Commander Offshoot solo. Then come back and tell me you only agro 5.

I hope you realize siege commander offshoots are designed to be group events, not to mention not a single kittening siege commander offshoot is in the tower, so I have no idea why you mentioned this.

LadyRhonwyn.2501:

Durzlla.6295:

Vanthian.9267:

A lot of you people equate difficulty with massive amounts of mobs. Having 15 mobs swamp a player is not difficult nor fun/challenging in anyway. It is lazy design.

Nothing in this game is truly “difficult content” it is all Zerg Content.

If you are not running through trying to skip anything there is absolutely no scenario you’ll get swarmed by more than 5 mobs, let alone kittening 15!! The only time you’ll get swarmed by 5 is if you get unlucky with a patrol anyway.

I might not be running through, and only fight 5 foes, when somebody else runs by and bring the other 10. Oh, and why should an elite spawn when I’m all alone in an area? I thought those were spawning when you have a zerg (so the zerg doesn’t spawn champs all the time).

On the bright side once you get to where the second nightmare pod is on floor 3 most the idiots that train mobs are dead! But yeah, that’s probably the worst part about soloing, the idiots who kitten you over by leashing mobs onto you…

Durzlla.6295:

On the bright side once you get to where the second nightmare pod is on floor 3 most the idiots that train mobs are dead! But yeah, that’s probably the worst part about soloing, the idiots who kitten you over by leashing mobs onto you…

Yes… I was having fun in the tower (nobody around), just slowly progressing, trying to never aggro more than 2 foes (though, trying to avoid those elites which I really think shouldn’t be there, as I was there alone) when a group of 3 came through, rushed past me (3 warriors) and then leave me dead on the ground thanks to their followers… I think foes shouldn’t shift attention to others when the one they’re leashed to is running away… That would solve so many problems…

To all players who complain of one hit kills they are all clearly telegraphed in the tower. If you can’t avoid aoe circles you cant really call yourselves a solo player. There are people who can solo arah and sell squad spots for mad g. So you really shouldn’t complain of difficulty of this level.

One hit kills is the game being relistic you step on a land mine what do you think will happen. You take a fireball to the face or get stabed by a blade twice your size what will happen.

I agree though that events in tower cant be soloed with my sub 80 alts but a squad of 5 can make it to the top easy. You really think you can fight a 1-10k army by your self. Only the “dragon renderer” pulled off an equivalent feat and you aren’t him.

Better question is why are we entering tower at all though it is made of wood and has a flower inside you would think a fire would be a good idea also it would destroy the spores. Come on asura invent thermite ultimate pesticide.

Hard content, easy content, whatever you want to call it to me it’s just not fun. I enjoy hard content. To me, this isn’t hard content for the sake of being fun. It’s just annoying. Why do I need a group to get to the top of a tower to an instance I just solo anyways? Fractals are hard and fun (certain ones… okay just lava). This tower is just obnoxious.

To me it’s more frustrating than anything. I feel that I have given the LS a lot of leeway, but the story just feels so out of place in Tyria right now and I’m really tired of zerg first updates.

Shadeofgrey.3065:

My main is a thief. As a person who enjoys playing the stealthy character, I do tend to favor running. It was always really fun when I could run through (with the assistance of infiltrator arrow and some traits) and then stealth, and I was safe. I still enjoy running jumping puzzles with my main because I can use stealth to grab the end chest without having to fight the mob standing on top of it. I guess I just can’t get over the fact that stealth no longer resets agro.

My main is also a thief and even in my golden rts days I loved stealth so yeah. It is much easier to run if you have shadow refuge and other tools at your disposal. However, if I ran into a group I’d join them and help out. It paid off quite nice when I helped one unfortunate soul who died – same person rezzed me a bit later when I was downed cos of a stupid mistake I made. I would recommend to my fellow thieves to NOT go in as glass cannons though. My thief has 17.6k health on SB and 18+ on d/d with traits which grant regen. It helps a LOT. That is until another runner pulls a to of mobs while you are resting in that air purifier bubble. Sure, the damage I do is smaller cos of that, but for solo running in the tower health>damage.
Final instance is easy enough to do and with sharpening stone + food damage deficiency is lessened anyway. And since I do only PvE I do not need a glass cannon.
I do agree with aggro on stealth – it also makes our downed 3 completely useless.
Sorry for possible spelling mistakes, writting this from my phone at work.

P.S.

I do have to give a shoutout to an awesome commander I ran with who had a policy of leaving no one behind. With more people like that we wouldn’t be forced to run solo so much.

If you are not there the first day it goes live, then your chances of successfully finishing the achievements of this Living Story as a casual player are minimal. I don’t mind harder content or content that requires a group to be finished. But this LS is pretty idiotic. It promotes nothing but mindless zerg rushing since the rewards for finishing it are just laughable. Plus what’s the point of putting so much mobs with so much conditions in it if not to kitten off your player base ?

Even if you try to solo it and slowly kill your way through it, there is always that/those idiot(s) that will just run through making all the mobs vets and the bosses vets / champions, only to die a few meters further and spam in chat " Plx Plox someone rezz me at this spot " while killing you as well with the mob train behind them.

The best and most wellthought events during my gameplay so far was the Wintersday events. Toyshop dungeon was super fun to do with a group and had good rewards, the pvp hungry players had the super fun arena to kill each other. In general everyone was happy, even the most casual players. This tower is just laughable.

I work long shifts, and often when I log on at night I have little time to play, if I get to play at all. My friends have usually done the content already (though a few of them are passing on this update) and it would be unfair to expect them to do it again for my sake. Nor should I expect them to wait to do it when I’m around. (Especially given that I may not log in that night, or be too tired to do anything too intense when I do.)

This is one of the big reasons why I solo, so I don’t have to spend what little time and energy I have putting together a group that may or may not make my play time a living hell, just to do things. For this update, pretty much all of the story is locked behind clearing that tower, and I simply can’t do that solo. Do I need to LTP? Maybe, I know I’m not the best player in the world. But I figure I’m about average, and I can’t get through with even my toughest character.

I know I’m not the only one that’s cut out of the story in this update due to what it takes to get through the tower. Yes, I think the game needs hard content, but it needs to be entirely optional. Story should NEVER be hard to get to, especially for something like the Living Story where it is supposed to build on what came before.

People would you agree arah is harder so this level of difficulty should probly be considered intermediate and not hard at all.

Fafnir.5124:

People would you agree arah is harder so this level of difficulty should probly be considered intermediate and not hard at all.

Arah is absolutely harder than this, and AR was harder than Arah (the hard modes), and Liadri is absolutely harder than AR…. So this tower is nothing if you ask me…

I never asked for harder content, I asked for better content. I like to solo, and sometimes tag along to others running through areas (Not just in the tower), that is just my play style. I would much rather have alternative routs with letter rewards but still completing achievements, that way I can still partake in the content while others who want the group activities can be happy as well.

The Halloween event was a disappointment for me because it pushed for PVP in order to do the required number of achievable, which I never attempted because I don’t really care for PVP.

The problem these Living Story events have is a lack of content for a wider range of people. if possible to appeal to the solo casuals and the hardcore groups without sacrificing the story and gameplay.

bad dungeon…the best strategy is to kitten over other players to get your own rewards

Durzlla.6295:

I gotta say, it’s A LOT easier to do when it’s 100% solo and you don’t have bumbling idiots constantly training mobs into you…. The only section of the 3rd part that becomes difficult solo is near the end if that kittening group event portal is up and you gotta cleave your way through watch works, AND aetherblade AND toxic alliance members…

Also, 100% fight your way through, and more importantly stop and rest at EVERY air filter, kill as many mobs as you can while standing on the air filter too, it makes it a lot easier.

There shouldn’t be any aetherblades at the portal event or toxic alliance members unless someone pulled them from the passage just before it.

Lazarus.3970:

I never asked for harder content, I asked for better content. I like to solo, and sometimes tag along to others running through areas (Not just in the tower), that is just my play style. I would much rather have alternative routs with letter rewards but still completing achievements, that way I can still partake in the content while others who want the group activities can be happy as well.

The Halloween event was a disappointment for me because it pushed for PVP in order to do the required number of achievable, which I never attempted because I don’t really care for PVP.

The problem these Living Story events have is a lack of content for a wider range of people. if possible to appeal to the solo casuals and the hardcore groups without sacrificing the story and gameplay.

That is incorrect regarding the halloween meta achievement for 2 reasons.
1) You can use the finishers on training NPCs in Heart of the Mists
2) You can completely skip the finisher achievement and complete the meta with the items in the daily.

(sorry bump)
IMO it was quite easy to solo the tower as a thief . Stealth ftw? I don’t know, but I went up solo once, and with a small 10 people zetg.

Point we are making is tower should be considered intermediate to easy content. If you doge roll out of aoe circle run up with a group of 5 to do events you can make it to the top no problem. And tower is pretty interesting content with many new mechanics bosses along tower are really interesting and unique.

I play a dagger dagger elementalist on the Blackgate server and was able to make it through the tower solo, except for the parts where you have to fight a champion to make it to the next room.

I didn’t think it was very difficult, and I didn’t die after I figured out what the spore bombs were (hehe that was fun). However, I also didn’t fight ANYTHING. After trying to take on the first couple vets, I realized that hallucinations spawn faster than I can deal with them, enemies rez each other, and hallucinations will stunlock me into the ground if I actually try to stomp someone.

I actually had a lot of fun kiting groups of enemies through the maze parts on the third level and then ambushing them with AoE, darting away right afterwards. However, the enemies I killed would respawn before I could finish off the whole group.

The thing about this dungeon is that if you want to play solo, you aren’t going to be able to fight anything. At least not if you’re on a big server like Blackgate. I still had fun careening past mobs, but I can see why it would get boring after the first couple of runs.

After all, we’re supposed to be INVADING the tower, right? That actually implies fighting.

RyanThomas.4182:

However, the enemies I killed would respawn before I could finish off the whole group.

<snip>

After all, we’re supposed to be INVADING the tower, right? That actually implies
fighting.

I should be able to clear a path, going to the top. But you can’t. Because, as you said, they respawn before you even get a chance to kill them. It doesn’t feel like you’re making any progress at all.

Invading in my book means pushing the foe in front of me, until they’re all dead and I have a clear path. And in this game that means, at least for a short time (unless they make it instanced, you need to have respawning foes for those that can’t play within the very first hour of content coming live…). And not killing a foe and having a replacement respawn before I even managed to get one step closer to my goal.

LadyRhonwyn.2501:

RyanThomas.4182:

However, the enemies I killed would respawn before I could finish off the whole group.

<snip>

After all, we’re supposed to be INVADING the tower, right? That actually implies
fighting.

I should be able to clear a path, going to the top. But you can’t. Because, as you said, they respawn before you even get a chance to kill them. It doesn’t feel like you’re making any progress at all.

Invading in my book means pushing the foe in front of me, until they’re all dead and I have a clear path. And in this game that means, at least for a short time (unless they make it instanced, you need to have respawning foes for those that can’t play within the very first hour of content coming live…). And not killing a foe and having a replacement respawn before I even managed to get one step closer to my goal.

Gotta agree with this, I can deal with the crazy amounts of AoE, conditions and everything else but the scaling and respawn rates in there are just absurd.

I tried it out with my thief a bit ago and if you don’t have a zerg it is practically impossible to make any headway in there by fighting. In the very first hallway on the first floor a random ranger and I spent a good five minutes trying to fight down the hallway and after killing the same two elite+2 vet/normal patrols for the third time in the same spot I threw down Shadow Refuge on us and told them to just run it. Needless to say despite being able to run the gauntlet with relative ease we could do virtually nothing vs the champion at the gate to the next area.

the counter can be argued cause of mob respawn and event respawn rates it is the best place to level. Ive been runing with my level 30 ele no problems yet finishing chambers and such and working way up tower.

Fafnir.5124:

To all players who complain of one hit kills they are all clearly telegraphed in the tower.

One hit kills is the game being relistic you step on a land mine what do you think will happen. You take a fireball to the face or get stabed by a blade twice your size what will happen.

First of all, the telegraphs are not clearly visible when you have a ton of player AoE and effects filling one’s screen. The insta-kills circles often occur in the middle of very dense mobs resulting in dense combat, not just when people are running along without any other AoEs to obscure them.

And there is a reason why fireballs don’t insta-kill players even though that would be ‘realistic’ (overlooking the ‘realism’ of summoning a conflagration with a few magic gestures). That doesn’t happen because it would make combat unappealing and tedious. Insta-kills don’t happen normally in combat because it would make for poor gameplay. Insta-kills in any other situation seldom suddenly transforms this mechanic into something entertaining. Increasing their density number doesn’t help either.

Adamantium.3682:

Hard content, easy content, whatever you want to call it to me it’s just not fun. I enjoy hard content. To me, this isn’t hard content for the sake of being fun. It’s just annoying.

Agree 100%! Challenging content that is well-designed makes you want to try it again even if you are defeated by it. That kind of content is fun and entertaining. The final bosses in the Molten Alliance dungeon are a good example.

Content that makes itself challenging by being annoying and tedious doesn’t make you want to do it again to beat it. You don’t want to try it again because it’s simply not fun. Frizz’ Lab in the Aetherblade dungeon is what I think of as an example of this.

I really hope ArenaNet starts to focus on making more of the former content rather than the latter (and the Tower fits firmly into the latter category).

Edit – IMO one of major things that makes content annoying in GW2 is when we are inhibited from helping each other. GW2 has an amazing mechanic that allows players to revive each other and support each other. Players who try to revive stragglers in the Tower will die. Players who tried to revive people who go down in Frizz’ lab will die. GW2 should focus on content that encourages players to cooperate and support each other, not content that punishes them when they try to help.

This tower is ridiculous for solo players. Every event is a group event and half the mobs are elite mobs. I am literally just losing money from participating in this content. Ever time I die I have to pay a waypoint fee, armor repair fees, and a fee to get back to the level I was on since there is no one around to res me….

Why do stupid money sinks have take away the small rewards I get from trying to solo this content???

I solo floor 3 on my zerker guardian (the portal event too). I honestly understand that some content is just stupid hard but this is mostly memorizing and dodging. Players literally demanded harder content and this isn’t even the upper levels of hard content.

Durzlla.6295:

Vanthian.9267:

A lot of you people equate difficulty with massive amounts of mobs. Having 15 mobs swamp a player is not difficult nor fun/challenging in anyway. It is lazy design.

Nothing in this game is truly “difficult content” it is all Zerg Content.

If you are not running through trying to skip anything there is absolutely no scenario you’ll get swarmed by more than 5 mobs, let alone kittening 15!! The only time you’ll get swarmed by 5 is if you get unlucky with a patrol anyway.

I seriously have to wonder if you’ve actually been in the tower.

And even if you somehow manage to not be near 5 mobs, they respawn so fast you might as count yourself as fighting 7 or 8 mobs at a time, especially with all the champs, vets and elites that are scattered through the normal packs of mobs and respawn just quickly.

Especially kittenty are the mobs that get downed state which you apparently have to spend 4 seconds standing over even though you already too many other mobs trying to eat your face to actually stand through the animation for.

The tower is high risk extremely low reward. And the DR makes sure it stays that way.

And I don’t understand why mob respawn doesn’t work like player respawn. Why are mobs allowed to respawn where they died? Why don’t they have to pay a ridiculous fee simply to port back to the closest stone and then have to run all the way back? Why are champs given unrealistic stats? Why is it ok for a champ to be able to insta kill a player but not ok for a player to be able to insta kill a champ?

Frosty and Frosty Law Firm.4981:

You(The players) asked for harder content.

You(The players) will now deal with what you get.

I don’t recall being consulted on this, nor asking for it.

How can any of you call this content “hard”? Making it group-centric where pretty much an zerg can do one trip to the top is hard? Forced group to get there but actual chambers including the hybrid are all soloable? Kinda backwards don’t you think?

I’m not complaining because this is by far the best content to date. That’s not saying a whole lot however.

I don’t recall anyone saying the usual mindless zergfest approach was hard. Soloing is the part that’s hard, for what I think is the majority of players. Most of the comments regarding soloing isn’t about soloing by choice, but soloing out of necessity after the orgasmic rush to get achievements has passed.

The end result of “making it group-centric” is what happened after about 5 days: a precipitous dropoff in players (not necessarily the direct fault of being group-centric) resulting in a vastly more difficult/annoying time for those left still doing the content either by choice or by necessity (the fault of being primarily group-centric without effective scaling after the groups dwindle to trios, pairs, and lone wolves).

As for “forced group”ing—frankly, I prefer to make the decision to group/zerg or not on my own. Crafting what amounts to an entire zone with the mindset that people will need to group in order to get through without either requiring the high skill of a hardcore player or the patience of a lump of stone, is misguided once anyone looks at the actual nature of a given MMO player base (in a nutshell: they will do pretty much anything to get their toys, then scurry away to do whatever they normally do—which is usually the best loot producing routine they’ve found). Thus, you have content that is fine for the first few days, then a total mess for most people thereafter.

While there’s scaling, unless there has been no group significantly larger than yours around for a long time and/or they killed off the mobs rather than running through them, the enemies tend toward the overwhelming in many cases, both in numbers and power, forcing you to either run like a little girl and hope for the best, or to slog slowly through them (and that ignores the issue with hyperactive respawning, something that is, as far as I can see, not at all reactive to the number of players in an area).

For me, bottom line is that storyline content such as anything to do with the LS should be soloable by any character with a half-way decent build and a player with average skills. Set the forced grouping stuff and champion walls and whatever other stuff you want off to the side where anyone that wants to can get to it (and hell, tie exclusive achievements and rewards to them for all I care). That way more players can enjoy the parts they want. Whether that would see more people still playing the content or not is speculation, but I’d think so, and I’d wager that would be a better end result in the minds of the devs than what’s actually occurred (if their comments about wanting people to play content repeatedly because it’s rewarding and fun is sincere—and I see no reason to doubt that).

Hmm. Ok, so I drifted and rambled. I’m old…get off my lawn!

Frosty and Frosty Law Firm.4981:

You(The players) asked for harder content.

You(The players) will now deal with what you get.

i remember people saying “challenging”. There is a big difference between “Challenging” and “Harder” content.

Zacchary.6183:

i remember people saying “challenging”. There is a big difference between “Challenging” and “Harder” content.

I may be wrong, but in this context, I believe “harder” and “more challenging” are the same thing… The most challenging feats, the harder achievements, are the most difficult to obtain (and should be the more rewarding!).

And yes, some of the content is difficult to get by. But guys, this is a multiplayer online game, and that means that not all content should be soloable. Yes, you will need to talk to another human being from time to time, if you want to get some of the “harder” achievements.

I believe that the developers must give us a fair share of easy and soloable content, and not-so-soloable content, and are-you-crazy-this-need-an-army content, so that we can choose what we prefer to play, but they should not make all content soloable, nor all content “groupable”.

Is content that requires a certain number of people actually more difficult than content that does not?

Consider this: If an event is nearly impossible to beat with 5 people, but it’s easy to beat with 10-15 players, then it’s not exactly hard, is it? The event has nothing to do with the difficulty or the skill of the individual players, it just has to do with how many people show up. 30 people spamming their #1 skill and taking a moment to rez people who fall can probably beat the champions in the tower fairly quickly, and that’s all that’s required of them.

Fractals, in contrast, are actually difficult in my opinion, because you have limited party sizes. Everyone has to cooperate, coordinate their skills, think on their feet, and have strong builds to complete them. Every player matters.

So, “more difficult” open world content really has nothing to do with difficulty, it just has to do with numbers. As a result, the tower is simply full of barriers that prevent solo players and smaller groups from enjoying the content.

Maybe the whole open world concept is flawed for this reason, I dunno? There’s a whole topic for discussion right there.

Harder doesn’t mean more challenging. It could just be more annoying. You can solo the Hybrid instance, but need a group to get there?