Guild Wars 2

are norns really just tall humans? like ppl call the asura small humans but they are clearly a special race with ears and the whole dwarf science thing going on but are norns really just………. tall humans…. albeit seemingly werewolf humans but,…. are they really just tall humans?

Very true to the above, and if I got it right, they don’t catch any disease. So pretty much a superhero race.

Also emphasis on the strength they have, they are VERY strong. In the intro, a norn picks up a boulder twice or trice his size over his head. Norn are pretty much Hercules everyone of them.

The most important thing though, is that they radiate a lot of heat. The cold weather in Shiverpeaks is summer to them. That’s why they don’t wear too much clothes. They do seem to be able to adapt though. If it’s warm, they radiate less heat.

No. Norn and humans cannot have offspring. On top of that there are some very big diffrences between the two species. Norn have superhero strength and are a race of fantasy giants. As big as they are, their strength is beyong what a human would a achieve with proportionate size. Though, they have been scaled down a few times to allow for game mechanics. Norn are no more tall humans than the dwarves were just short humans prior to turning to stone. Similarities are there but there is also glaring diffrences.

And shape shifting!

but from the LOOKS of them…. they are just tall humans right…

omnimister.4219:

but from the LOOKS of them…. they are just tall humans right…

I suppose you could say that the same way giants look like tall humans (Norn are giants). And dwarves look like short humans. It’s not like norn have tentacles under their armor or anything.

The difference in looks though, is that norn naturally have a lot more muscle mass than humans. So if a male norn was scaled down to human height, he would still look uber manly. Even if he was the nerd in the corner who never lifted weights or played sports.

why even have humans then if theres a super saiyan race?

Same reason dwarves, humans and elves most always appear together. They may look similar but hey are not the same. Norn are super powered individuals but they lack the organization and cohesion that humans have. Both humans and norn bring something different to the table.

If you really pay attention to detail, Norn do not look like tall humans. First, the women do look more “human” than man, but the proportions of the bodies is heavly different. It is not just being tall, but norn have deltoids, trapezius and limb lenght much bigger than the rest of the body. If I am not mistaken, everything but the height is similiar to what some people propose neanderthals looked like.

Lore-wise Norn are supposed to be incredibly strong, far stronger than what a creature of comparable size (like a minotaur) might be. Back in GW1, it was not uncommon for a single Norn to take on an entire Charr warband (consisting of 5 – 10+ Charr) and win.

For balance reasons, this racial super strength doesn’t exist in-game, but it is supposed to be there.

Then again, one could also theorize that in the 250 years since GW1, the Norn have become more settled and sedentary, and most Norn no longer possess the kind of super-strength their ancestors did. It’s similar to how most modern humans aren’t as fit and strong as their ancestors who lived rough, hunter-gatherer lifestyles are.

Norns are short Jotuns, not tall humans .

I’m sure they start wondering why humans look like them when they’re all stumbling around drunk at the end of a moot…

omnimister.4219:

but from the LOOKS of them…. they are just tall humans right…

They have different body shape as well… you can find skinny humans but never a skinny norn

Mesket.5728:

omnimister.4219:

but from the LOOKS of them…. they are just tall humans right…

They have different body shape as well… you can find skinny humans but never a skinny norn

A skinny Norn is like a sober Norn, a crime against nature.

Seeing as I have too much time on my hands, thank you winter storms, I decided to help out with this.

In the first picture, I made a side-by-side comparison of the difference in muscles: notice the much longer deltoids of the norn, the trapezius and chets muscles are all elongated. This creates a very hulking build. Not shown here, but mentioned, is the spine and head shape: male norn have very round heads and their spine seems to be less straight than a human’s.

For the second picture, I scaled the human up to the norn’s size (ish) and superimposed them: as you can see, the build is very different.

In the third and final one, I was bored and just messing with photoshop.

Really nice post, YAY for free time

omnimister.4219:

why even have humans then if theres a super saiyan race?

They need Krillin for comedic relief.

Terra Dactyl.2047:

omnimister.4219:

why even have humans then if theres a super saiyan race?

They need Krillin for comedic relief.

Lol, this.

Come to think of it, why IS there a human race? I mean no disrespect to people that play human, but Norns seem to be loosely based off of viking culture, which is a human culture. That seems odd to me.

Humans are taking a more traditional elvish role in GW compared to other MMOs, they’re on their last legs and are generally more magically adept (along with Sylvari and Asura) than the other races. All the races have hints of real life human cultures, such as the Charr being heavily influenced by Roman culture.

Mystic Starfish.2586:

All the races have hints of real life human cultures.

This. In other fantasy universe dwarves are short scotts, orcs are barbarians, etc. Every single invented race is going to have loose ties to RL cultures because truly alien concepts are hard to come up with and even harder to sell since players generally want something we can identify with. At least in part.

Tyragon.2496:

Very true to the above, and if I got it right, they don’t catch any disease. So pretty much a superhero race.

There is a sick norn child in Snowden Drifts, in one of the lionguard havens.

Disa in Dredgehaunt Cliffs also frequently gets colds from playing in the snow too much. Norn are an especially hardy and resilient race, but they also have weaker members of society. It’s likely that these individuals (and their families) probably do their best to conceal it lest they seem weak and thus shameful.

Okay, why is this marked as the right answer, seriously?

Tyragon.2496:

Very true to the above, and if I got it right, they don’t catch any disease. So pretty much a superhero race.

What?

The most important thing though, is that they radiate a lot of heat. The cold weather in Shiverpeaks is summer to them. That’s why they don’t wear too much clothes. They do seem to be able to adapt though. If it’s warm, they radiate less heat.

The reason they can live in the shiver peaks without too much clothes is the same reason why bikinis can be used as armor in this game, or why every race can walk around in the snow in his/her underwear without freezing.

What is this reason you may ask? Absolutely nothing, there are limits to how far realism goes in video games

The Norn actually are more comfortable in cold environments. There’s NPC’s in the world that state ths. So it has nothing to do with the game mechanics of other races being able to unequip armor and not freeze.

Dustfinger.9510:

The Norn actually are more comfortable in cold environments. There’s NPC’s in the world that state ths. So it has nothing to do with the game mechanics of other races being able to unequip armor and not freeze.

If game mechanics are not the reason, then explain to me why my asura/sylvari/human characters can survive in the Shiverpeaks just as easily as any norn?

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Dustfinger.9510:

The Norn actually are more comfortable in cold environments. There’s NPC’s in the world that state ths. So it has nothing to do with the game mechanics of other races being able to unequip armor and not freeze.

If game mechanics are not the reason, then explain to me why my asura/sylvari/human characters can survive in the Shiverpeaks just as easily as any norn?

My only response can be for you to read more carefully.

My Norn Necro uses the tallest but “skinny” body type , which in human terms is a very very fit person. Just posting these for comparison.

sorry for ui forgot to turn it off .

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Dustfinger.9510:

The Norn actually are more comfortable in cold environments. There’s NPC’s in the world that state ths. So it has nothing to do with the game mechanics of other races being able to unequip armor and not freeze.

If game mechanics are not the reason, then explain to me why my asura/sylvari/human characters can survive in the Shiverpeaks just as easily as any norn?

For the same reason they can breathe underwater indefinitely? Because having to manage your body heat would be an incredibly lame game mechanic.

Conncept.7638:

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Dustfinger.9510:

The Norn actually are more comfortable in cold environments. There’s NPC’s in the world that state ths. So it has nothing to do with the game mechanics of other races being able to unequip armor and not freeze.

If game mechanics are not the reason, then explain to me why my asura/sylvari/human characters can survive in the Shiverpeaks just as easily as any norn?

For the same reason they can breathe underwater indefinitely? Because having to manage your body heat would be an incredibly lame game mechanic.

That’s basically what I was saying…

It’s actually lore regarding norn and cold in particular. Where a human or asura might freeze to death in the sub-zero temperatures, norn would thrive.

This isn’t to say they’re immortal against the cold, because yes at a certain point even norn can eventually freeze to death or succumb to frostbite.

They can handle it a lot better than any other playable race lore wise.

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Conncept.7638:

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Dustfinger.9510:

The Norn actually are more comfortable in cold environments. There’s NPC’s in the world that state ths. So it has nothing to do with the game mechanics of other races being able to unequip armor and not freeze.

If game mechanics are not the reason, then explain to me why my asura/sylvari/human characters can survive in the Shiverpeaks just as easily as any norn?

For the same reason they can breathe underwater indefinitely? Because having to manage your body heat would be an incredibly lame game mechanic.

That’s basically what I was saying…

Suspension of disbelief. Get some.

CETheLucid.3964:

Suspension of disbelief. Get some.

Nah, it’s not my kind of movie.

there is no clear origin of the norn race, but they are not just tall humans. They look like humans, granted, but they are norn. Just as elfs aren´t just humans with pointy ears.
There are theories that they are somehow conected with humans, but no clear answer to that. Kodan, for example, think that they are kodans, fallen in disrespect and they lost their bear forms (kodans are the polar-bear people for those who don´t know) and are able to transform into it just for a little while. Norn, on the other hand, believe that kodans are just norn stuck in their Bear forms, so take it with a grain of salt.
What has to be said, however, norn were much taller in GW1 than they are now (probably for the sake of mechanics). They almost looked like half-giants (didn´t play GW1, but I seen pictures). So there you are…they are humanoids and wery human-like, but not like humans, they are distinct race of its own

Similar appearances don’t mean bigger, smaller, broader, etc. versions of the same species in real world biology. In the real world, humans have not had to deal with the confusion of other, closely related species of human any time in the past 30,000 years or so. Not all species have it this easy. There are species that look so similar (usually closely related) that they can have trouble distinguishing one another in selecting mates and can often waste a lot of energy mating with the wrong species.

Norn are not big Humans and Humans are not small Norn. They just appear that way.

The Norn are believed to have descended and evolved from the Kodan. There are different theories, but the most commonly accepted one in the lore is that they’re an offshoot of Kodan who eventually separated from the rest of them, going to a different part of the northern regions and evolved into what they are today, resembling humans. This is for whatever the reason is why they can shape shift, though.

There have been conflicting backgrounds on them by developers in the past, and in both games. In GW1 there’s a character who was the offspring of Norn & human, but then a dev came on here a long time ago and said they can’t reproduce and then somewhere another said perhaps it would be possible. Whatever the case, they’re not “just tall humans”.

They emit more body heat than other races do, especially in motion. So this is why a lot of their clothing/attire is rather skimpy/lacking complete and total coverage. The more physically active they get, the more heat they emit and this is why they prefer the cold regions. It’s not nearly as cold to them up where they live as it is to the other races.

Shanna.4762:

The Norn are believed to have descended and evolved from the Kodan. There are different theories, but the most commonly accepted one in the lore is that they’re an offshoot of Kodan who eventually separated from the rest of them, going to a different part of the northern regions and evolved into what they are today, resembling humans. This is for whatever the reason is why they can shape shift, though.

This is, however, only Kodan´s look at things. Norns then see Kodan as norns stuck in their bear forms. All theories of norn origin (as well as sylvari, for example), ar just theories in game world and every race has a different one

There have been conflicting backgrounds on them by developers in the past, and in both games. In GW1 there’s a character who was the offspring of Norn & human, but then a dev came on here a long time ago and said they can’t reproduce and then somewhere another said perhaps it would be possible. Whatever the case, they’re not “just tall humans”.

There was and idea on interbreeding species which could result into this “half-norn”, but they realised they don´t want this. There is this guy that says is descendant of norn and human, but it is considered canon that each race can reproduce only within it´s species.

According to the lore, the humans were brought to Tyria by the gods.

According to the jotun storyteller Thruln the Lost in Hoelbrak, there was a time long ago known as the Age of Giants. In this age the giants were given magic by the gods, and grew in power to rival them. In fear, the gods took magic away from the giants and their kingdoms fell. The jotun never recovered and devolved into the brutes they are now, whereas the norn turned to the Spirits of the Wild and received magic from them.

According to this jotun legend, the norn only gained the power to shapeshift when they turned to the Spirits of the Wild. The kodan are not even mentioned, and it is unknown if they are giant-kin. Likely they are not related, just as humans are not related to the norn either.

While humans are very pious, the norn are perhaps the most spiritually attuned race. The norn personal story “defend the mists” reveals how they can walk between worlds at will, while humans require the help of avatars of the gods to do so.

It’s also revealed that Jormag is not a spirit and has no power in the mists, nor any true shamans among the Sons of Svanir who can travel there.

Cirian.8917:

According to the lore, the humans were brought to Tyria by the gods.

According to the jotun storyteller Thruln the Lost in Hoelbrak, there was a time long ago known as the Age of Giants. In this age the giants were given magic by the gods, and grew in power to rival them. In fear, the gods took magic away from the giants and their kingdoms fell. The jotun never recovered and devolved into the brutes they are now, whereas the norn turned to the Spirits of the Wild and received magic from them.

According to this jotun legend, the norn only gained the power to shapeshift when they turned to the Spirits of the Wild. The kodan are not even mentioned, and it is unknown if they are giant-kin. Likely they are not related, just as humans are not related to the norn either.

While humans are very pious, the norn are perhaps the most spiritually attuned race. The norn personal story “defend the mists” reveals how they can walk between worlds at will, while humans require the help of avatars of the gods to do so.

It’s also revealed that Jormag is not a spirit and has no power in the mists, nor any true shamans among the Sons of Svanir who can travel there.

Of further interest to all this, especially with regards to what the Thruln the Lost speaks about…

You can find a human priest running around Hoelbrek speaking of the grace of the six and that the norn need to repent and turn to them.

Of interest is what he says when you actually dialogue with him as a norn (and don’t pick the option to insult his faith XD).

“Your human gods do not speak to me.”
“I know you have your Spirits that you worship, but what you don’t realize is that they answer to one of the Six. They are in Melandru’s domain.”

Interesting stuff.

That priest doesn’t quite understand how the relationship between norn and Spirits of the Wild work. A-net has specifically stated that norn don’t actually worship the SotW, so much as they rever them.

Dustfinger.9510:

That priest doesn’t quite understand how the relationship between norn and Spirits of the Wild work. A-net has specifically stated that norn don’t actually worship the SotW, so much as they rever them.

That doesn’t change anything with regards to what the priest is getting at.

If the norn revere an aspect of Melandru from a devout humans POV, than the devout norn and devout human are just dandy with one and other.

Moreso if the human is a Melandru kinda guy. From the human POV they might as well be worshiping the same god.

Bit like the quaggans, though they openly disagree with the humans regarding Melandru being dead.

Some quaggan must by virtue love humans per the hope that their god yet lives, or hate us for telling them she lives but they believe her dead and humans liars.

That would mean norn, like the other giants, were stripped of their power but through the Spirits of the Wild/Melandru, gained renewed favor.

Melandru <3’s the norn.

And the charr, for that matter. But they’re a bit more touchy about it… I wouldn’t recommend bringing it up or anything.

I wonder how devout humans think of the Asura? The Sylvari/Melandru connection would be almost instantaneous in my mind.

But I don’t even know where to begin with Asura. Maybe Lyssa?

It changes the tone of the entire conversation. The priest sais to repent and follow the six. The norn said “no”. The priest reasons that they might as well since they already follow an aspect of the six in fashion. The word ‘repent’ implies that the priests message is not that they are already dandy with each other but that the norn should turn from their ways and do what the human is doing.

if it is already happening then there is no reason to repent. But if the priest is basing his message off of his flawed understanding of norn/SotW relationship then he isn’t even speaking the same language as the norn. either way the priest is wasting his time.

So the priest message is actually pretty insulting. he is saying stop your Spirit worship and worship the six because the Spirit answers to (Is a servant of and therefor, below) one of the six.

Dustfinger.9510:

It changes the tone of the entire conversation. The priest sais to repent and follow the six. The norn said “no”. The priest reasons that they might as well since they already follow an aspect of the six in fashion. The word ‘repent’ implies that the priests message is not that they are already dandy with each other but that the norn should turn from their ways and do what the human is doing.

if it is already happening then there is no reason to repent. But if the priest is basing his message off of his flawed understanding of norn/SotW relationship then he isn’t even speaking the same language as the norn. either way the priest is wasting his time.

So the priest message is actually pretty insulting. he is saying stop your Spirit worship and worship the six because the Spirit answers to (Is a servant of and therefor, below) one of the six.

So how do you explain the whole being blessed thing regardless?

If the puny human priest were being insulting, I’m pretty sure he wouldn’t be long for Hoelbrak or this world for that matter.

You’re being too sensitive about it if you find him insulting. He doesn’t have a qualm with the norn spirits even going so far as to say they’re a part of his own faith.

He’s trying to ‘enlighten’ the norn from a human point of view.

Since the norn are so individualistic and varied in their beliefs, he might convince somebody.

The fact that an old human priest is worried about the norn so much that he puts himself out there among them is endearing in a way.

He just offers another perspective, another glimpse into the games world.

A message can be insulting without it intending to be. The norn also include his faith in their own beliefs. That’s not really an issue. Especially since both the Six and the Spirits are known to definitely exist. I don’t see any animosity coming from either side.

I doubt he is trying to be insulting. But the fact is that his message isn’t “Hey, we are all already chums”. his message is that the norn should change what their doing. That’s what ‘repent’ means. To turn away from what you are doing. And his reason for the norn needing to “turn away” is that the Spirits they worship already “answer to” the Six. he’s essentially saying “Why worship the servant when you can worship the master?”

That shows us a couple things about what the priest believes. The priest has a flawed understanding of the relationship between the norn and the Spirits. And that the priest is of the opinion that Melandru is above the Spirits. So in response to that belief, he is trying to turn the norn away from the Spirits in order for them to worship the Six.

Either way, the priest doesn’t really understand the norn. he is just doing what he feels he should be doing. maybe he looks at it as a service to the norn. That isn’t a horrible or evil thing. It is just what it is.

Dustfinger.9510:

I doubt he is trying to be insulting. But the fact is that his message isn’t “Hey, we are all already chums”. his message is that the norn should change what their doing. That’s what ‘repent’ means. To turn away from what you are doing. And his reason for the norn needing to “turn away” is that the Spirits they worship already “answer to” the Six. he’s essentially saying “Why worship the servant when you can worship the master?”

“Hey, we’re already on the same aisle you and I, here’s a little insider info for you.” You have to read an insult into that. It’s not inherently insulting.

You’re hung up on the word repent, which means to change your mind. That’s not insulting in of itself.

I mean unless you’re this fragile flower that can tolerate absolutely no challenge to your established thinking, lest a fuse be blown upstairs?

Maybe it’s ‘insulting’ in this sense? Offensive is a better word I suppose? Me thinks the norn are a little more sturdy than that.

CETheLucid.3964:

Dustfinger.9510:

I doubt he is trying to be insulting. But the fact is that his message isn’t “Hey, we are all already chums”. his message is that the norn should change what their doing. That’s what ‘repent’ means. To turn away from what you are doing. And his reason for the norn needing to “turn away” is that the Spirits they worship already “answer to” the Six. he’s essentially saying “Why worship the servant when you can worship the master?”

“Hey, we’re already on the same aisle you and I, here’s a little insider info for you.” You have to read an insult into that. It’s not inherently insulting.

You’re hung up on the word repent, which means to change your mind. That’s not insulting in of itself.

I mean unless you’re this fragile flower that can tolerate absolutely no challenge to your established thinking, lest a fuse be blown upstairs?

Maybe it’s ‘insulting’ in this sense? Offensive is a better word I suppose? Me thinks the norn are a little more sturdy than that.

I’m hung up on the word ‘repent’ because it is a major part of the preists message. Im not however, hung up on the fact that it can be read as an insult. Because im not the one being defensive about it. Im just choosing to acknowledge it’s existence. I am also pointing out how the message of the priest isn’t “hey we’re on the same side of the isle, here’s some insider info”. because the message is “We all know that both the Spirits and the Six exist but instead of worshipping the Spirits, worship the six because they are better”.

feel free to disreguard any idea of how insulting that can be (really, disreguard it. it isn’t important). Without the insult, it still isn’t a message of “hey we’re already chums”. it is a message of “Turn from your ways”. That means he isn’t focusing on the common ground. He is focusing on the diffrences. Using the common ground as a vehicle to get to the diffrences.

So my point is that the priest has a flawed idea of the norn/Spirit relationship. But that flawed idea still doesn’t translate to the priests having a message that all is good and well, because his main message is to ‘repent’. To turn away from your ways and instead of worshipping Spirits, worship the Six. but…… the norn don’t worship the Spirits. So the entire premise is flawed.

Dustfinger.9510:

I’m hung up on the word ‘repent’ because it is a major part of the preists message. Im not however, hung up on the fact that it can be read as an insult. Because im not the one being defensive about it.

I’m sorry you feel that way. I’ll stop trying to explain it to you.

CETheLucid.3964:

Dustfinger.9510:

I’m hung up on the word ‘repent’ because it is a major part of the preists message. Im not however, hung up on the fact that it can be read as an insult. Because im not the one being defensive about it.

I’m sorry you feel that way. I’ll stop trying to explain it to you.

The possibility of it being insulting was merely a side note that didn’t really warrant the attention that was dedicated to it. As I said, feel free to disreguard it.

edit: If we were to examine to norn relationship with the Spirits we would see that it is nothing like what the priest thinks it is. Let’s assume that the priest is right and the Spirits answer to melandru.

The norn shows us norn priorities when he says “Your humans gods don’t speak to me”. That means that what he holds essential is the relationship between the Spirit and the individual norn. That means that even if the Spirit is less powerful than a god and answers to a god, it doesn’t matter. Because the Spirit invests intimate time and energy in the norn. Where as the priest shows us human priority in what to worship. They feel the one most worthy of worship is the one that is most powerful. Whether the god chooses to acknowledge the worshipper or not. (obviously the priest doesn’t take it to an illogical extreme by worshipping a powerful Dragon that wants to destroy humanity)

The conversation between the two definitely does offer deeper perspective into the lore world. Two different priorities in the spiritual lives of two different species. So insulting or not aside, the conversation is a good find.

Dustfinger.9510:

The conversation between the two definitely does offer deeper perspective into the lore world. Two different priorities in the spiritual lives of two different species. So insulting or not aside, the conversation is a good find.

Agreed.