Guild Wars 2

Why don’t you delete your post instead of trolling?

My skill is just fine. In fact, I’m usually the one that gets marked for the other people to follow.

The dungeon is overtuned.
Period.

I pugged this 5 times now and they all failed on the last boss during the canon phase. Every time we grouped up and ran in a circle. Sometimes you stay ahead of the red circles, sometimes they are right on top of you so you have to dodge roll out. You only have to get unlucky a couple of times and you are down, and you cannot be saved.

The last run we got the boss to 25%. Why? Because we had a Guardian tossing out swiftness.

Look at the dulfy video: they had 4 guardians.

4.

Over tuned

Honestly…..hard? It’s challenging, but the challenge feels about right.

I am not a hardcore dungeon-player, I generally avoid them, but as a very clever, patient in-game pal and guildie put a group together I went along and did it. Hey, I died a few times, but some of that was due to the crazy lag and DC’ing I was experiencing…..and I almost NEVER lag or DC in this game even at very busy events, so I couldn’t understand it happening in this dungeon.

I enjoyed it….every step, except the last boss. I died, and died and died, but I suck at the horrible-red circles of death part….that’s just me, the other players in the same group were doing just fine.

I think people complain too much. Let people who enjoy a challenge play in these dungeons, I am perfectly happy to enjoy the content beyond dungeons for the most part.

Thedenofsin.7340:

Why don’t you delete your post instead of trolling?

My skill is just fine. In fact, I’m usually the one that gets marked for the other people to follow.

The dungeon is overtuned.
Period.

I pugged this 5 times now and they all failed on the last boss during the canon phase. Every time we grouped up and ran in a circle. Sometimes you stay ahead of the red circles, sometimes they are right on top of you so you have to dodge roll out. You only have to get unlucky a couple of times and you are down, and you cannot be saved.

The last run we got the boss to 25%. Why? Because we had a Guardian tossing out swiftness.

Look at the dulfy video: they had 4 guardians.

4.

Over tuned

The Cannon-part at the end is probably the easiest part of the dungeon. It can easily be completed with no swiftness and no vigor. I’ve only run the dungeon once (and I didn’t watch the Dev play through it, so I had no idea what to expect) and yet, I didn’t die a single time.

I loved this dungeon. I went with 4 guild mates and 1 pug and we did it in 30m. Wiped once on each boss encounter but that’s fine.. for me, it was my first time through. If I had succeeded on my first try, that would have been a sign that it’s too easy. Once you learn the fights and can react to the situations appropriately and communicate effectively, the dungeon is only challenging, not impossible (and a challenge never hurt anyone).

I just can’t imagine this getting nerfed… We don’t need a bunch of spam 1 fights, we need interesting boss mechanics. If it’s not ineresting or challenging, why do it?

I don’t know if this was posted already:

I’d like to point out and easy strategy to do this easily. Max out passive heals. have guardian and elementalist food and individual healer booster too if u can. Through doing this you can be healed on the move which is necessary in this dugion. This will allow you to live through the cannon fire and also the lasers in the two bosses. This allows you to get hit with small laser with out dying which helps a lot.

All damage in this dugion is condition burn, bleed and confusion so if you have condition removal then you take no damage and relatively easy.

I have done it two times this way and health was always at 100%. Found it long but super easy.

Also soloed first boss for 1 hours till golums pulled me into center of laser so it is doable.

It is not bad enough where i feel it needs to be nerfed. Maybe decrease time of last cannon fire 1min 50secs is a long time to doge kinda annoying more then anything.

Building parties to do specific tasks is fundamentals of dugions which is why pugging making random squads will never be easier then a guild squad. My method above will make it substantially easier to do.

Thedenofsin.7340:

Why don’t you delete your post instead of trolling?

My skill is just fine. In fact, I’m usually the one that gets marked for the other people to follow.

The dungeon is overtuned.
Period.

I pugged this 5 times now and they all failed on the last boss during the canon phase. Every time we grouped up and ran in a circle. Sometimes you stay ahead of the red circles, sometimes they are right on top of you so you have to dodge roll out. You only have to get unlucky a couple of times and you are down, and you cannot be saved.

The last run we got the boss to 25%. Why? Because we had a Guardian tossing out swiftness.

Look at the dulfy video: they had 4 guardians.

4.

Over tuned

Please don’t state your opinion as fact. It’s not. It’s exactly that, your opinion. YOU think it’s overtuned, and before you come back with “look at the number of posts about this, it’s clear I’m right” please remember…

MOST of the people that probably have no problems with this dungeon are probably still enjoying it in game or doing something else. Vocal minority (imo) =/= the majority.

BTW, completed this multiple times with multiple toons, each time we only had 1 guardian at most in the group, and even then the didn’t always take swiftness/staff.

Agreed, there is a different to having a challanging but fun dungeon (like Molten Facility) and wasting your hours trying to beat it at best
Not all of us can spend many hours just to complete the dungeon ONE time for the entire day!

Omg something’s actually hard in this game? No flipping way sorry everything can’t be as brain numbingly easy as COF 1…my group did this easily, whole dungeon with only 1 wipe…this was actually one of the most fun dungeons I’ve done simply because it was somewhat challenging though and we had to adjust to things quickly, (we did die a lot but only 1 full wipe) anet needs to make more challenging things like this not less

Finished it yesterday on first try with a random group. There was one guy in there who was a superb explainer of boss mechanics and thats why we easily got through. Just look up how the dungeons work and take your time explaining it to newbies. It´s in fact a really fun dungeon IMO

displacedTitan.6897:

So the fact that this is really hard with no condition removal and in zerker gear doesn’t give any meaning to equipment, skills or traits?

Well, yes. because you don’t need those at all. What you need is to run and jump around. Skills are completely secondary.

WereDragon.6083:

This dungeon is ridiculous for anyone not rocking a guardian or warrior. I’m running a fullvit toughness thief and between the bots pulling me into the lasers on the first boss and mia’s undodgeable shadowshot it’s a slow and agitating death. Meanwhile i watched a guardian solo Mia almost to death on the last phase between the armor and healing they could pump out.

I have a feeling the people claiming this dungeon is fine aren’t playing the squishy classes.

Erm. Thief main here, 2.3k armor + 13k HP. Cleared it with no problem, melee against Trin most of the time and melee everywhere else pretty much 100% of the time.

Thedenofsin.7340:

This is by far the worst instance ANet has made.

I’m fairly certain they never even play-tested this instance.

Let me try to spell it out for the ANet team:

RNG IS NOT FUN. RNG IS NOT FUN. RNG IS NOT FUN. RNG IS NOT FUN. RNG IS NOT FUN. RNG IS NOT FUN. RNG IS NOT FUN. RNG IS NOT FUN. RNG IS NOT FUN. RNG IS NOT FUN. RNG IS NOT FUN. RNG IS NOT FUN. RNG IS NOT FUN. RNG IS NOT FUN. RNG IS NOT FUN. RNG IS NOT FUN. RNG IS NOT FUN. RNG IS NOT FUN. RNG IS NOT FUN. RNG IS NOT FUN. RNG IS NOT FUN. RNG IS NOT FUN. RNG IS NOT FUN. RNG IS NOT FUN. RNG IS NOT FUN. RNG IS NOT FUN. RNG IS NOT FUN. RNG IS NOT FUN. RNG IS NOT FUN. RNG IS NOT FUN. RNG IS NOT FUN. RNG IS NOT FUN. RNG IS NOT FUN. RNG IS NOT FUN. RNG IS NOT FUN. RNG IS NOT FUN. RNG IS NOT FUN. RNG IS NOT FUN. RNG IS NOT FUN. RNG IS NOT FUN. RNG IS NOT FUN. RNG IS NOT FUN. RNG IS NOT FUN. RNG IS NOT FUN. RNG IS NOT FUN. RNG IS NOT FUN. RNG IS NOT FUN. RNG IS NOT FUN. RNG IS NOT FUN. RNG IS NOT FUN. RNG IS NOT FUN. RNG IS NOT FUN. RNG IS NOT FUN. RNG IS NOT FUN. RNG IS NOT FUN. RNG IS NOT FUN. RNG IS NOT FUN. RNG IS NOT FUN. RNG IS NOT FUN. RNG IS NOT FUN. RNG IS NOT FUN. RNG IS NOT FUN. RNG IS NOT FUN. RNG IS NOT FUN. RNG IS NOT FUN. RNG IS NOT FUN. RNG IS NOT FUN. RNG IS NOT FUN. RNG IS NOT FUN. RNG IS NOT FUN. RNG IS NOT FUN. RNG IS NOT FUN. RNG IS NOT FUN. RNG IS NOT FUN. RNG IS NOT FUN. RNG IS NOT FUN. RNG IS NOT FUN. RNG IS NOT FUN. RNG IS NOT FUN.

Well this kinda shows why you cant complete it.. what has RNG got to do with this thread, your level of ability is obviously as high as your ability to type trash.

All you have done in this thread is moan, whine and lay blame in all places except the one that really counts…. YOU.

As if you hadn’t had your fill already you then go on and make out " The end of the world is nigh, the servers are dying .. cos its all too hard for you".

Well seems like there are plenty of LFG’s up 24/7 at the moment on Underworld and likely other servers too… then again I don’t have issues getting groups on any map for any content still even with the Pirates and Bash live at same time…. its all in your head, unless of course you got some actual proof.

The dungeon is more than doable, you just obviously don’t possess the skills and patience in order to achieve it… not every dungeon/event/mob is designed to be speed run like CoF 1.. I say well done ANET for growing some spheres and putting out content that needs some effort.

Topher.1684:

MOST of the people that probably have no problems with this dungeon are probably still enjoying it in game or doing something else. Vocal minority (imo) =/= the majority.

BTW, completed this multiple times with multiple toons, each time we only had 1 guardian at most in the group, and even then the didn’t always take swiftness/staff.

Please don’t state your opinion as fact. It’s not. It’s exactly that, your opinion. YOU think that most people probably have no problems with this dungeon. YOU think the vocal minority are the ones who find this dungeon overtuned.

I still say passive heals are way to go for this dugion combined with condition removal make it relatively easy. It is easier then arah by a longshot both in length and difficulty. If golums didn’t get block from small laser everyone would say that this is so easy instead of it is so hard.

Completed the dungeon at last but my opinion remains the same , it is not an enjoyable dungeon at all. Just because something is hard does NOT make it good.

I give it 5/10

Thedenofsin.7340:

Topher.1684:

MOST of the people that probably have no problems with this dungeon are probably still enjoying it in game or doing something else. Vocal minority (imo) =/= the majority.

BTW, completed this multiple times with multiple toons, each time we only had 1 guardian at most in the group, and even then the didn’t always take swiftness/staff.

Please don’t state your opinion as fact. It’s not. It’s exactly that, your opinion. YOU think that most people probably have no problems with this dungeon. YOU think the vocal minority are the ones who find this dungeon overtuned.

To be fair, he didn’t state his opinion has fact. He said that something is ‘probably’ the case and also added ‘(imo)’ regarding the vocal minority.

For reference, imo stands for in my opinion.

I see many posters saying that this dungeon requires better use of coordination and use of mechanics; however, I did not find that on my run through at all. The only particularly different parts were the two boss fights.

Fizz wasn’t too bad, our team finally won by all sticking together and ensuring we don’t spread out (coordination was used, sure, but mechanics?) I see a lot of people saying Stability is a must, but I did not bring it and I often died the least / last out of my party. I also barely get stability with my mesmer

Mai was a different problem. The actual fight wasn’t bad at all, the problem is the cannon barrage. I said it a few pages ago, that I think this would have been more interesting if it had made us use the game mechanics we have learned. Dodge rolls, reflects, push/pulls, interrupts (dazes/stuns), projectile blocks etc etc. Instead we are encouraged to take up one of two strategies where we run in a circle together or spread out and side-step out of the red circles.

For me this was a huge problem, because my team wanted to run in a circle, but they packed +25% speed signet buffs. My mesmer obviously doesn’t have this, so I’d run with them and be fine until my focuses swiftness fell off, then I’d get caught behind. I’d dodge roll twice to try and catch up, but eventually would be left a few feet behind and hit the cannons that were originally aimed at the party in front of me.

For those who do not know this, the cannons target you as a player. So if you all run together the cannons will target you as you run and leave them behind. If you all run randomly, you will undoubtedly run in to someone elses cannons. Alternatively, you can spread out and side step ever so slightly out of the red circles. If no one is running around, you will only have the few cannons that are aimed at you to concern yourself with and they are fairly easy to dodge.

This dungeon is way too ridiculously hard for it being just temporary content.
I absolutely don’t know, what kind of weird people are in here saying, this dungeon is fun.

I do realize the ridiculously unfair overpowered mechanics of this dungeon, which start to kick in, once you reach Frizz, and battle him until the 3rd phase.

If it isn’t just stupidly unfair enough that those dumb golems are basically all the time nearly invulnerable, where a damage reducement of say per se 50-75% would have been more than enough to make those fights hard enough, but giving them basically “god mode” by receiving no damage, only because they are coated in lightnings is god kitten ridiculous!!

Those laserwalls are also way too overpowered, when they can easily kill all in just seconds, if both walls, the tiny and the big one come to happen to hit you both at the same time, then your instant downed and if not all other party members risk their lives at that moment to revive you, you won’t have any chance then anymore to come back by yourself, what makes the whole downed state for this battle OBSOLETE.

This stupid dungeon penalizes way too draconic mistakes of single party members, because once a party member dies, your damage ratio loses way too much power to be able to kill those 2 golems off, before any other party member dies.
And if the party has bad luck, the party gets instantly half wiped at the moment where the game shifts from phase 2 to phase 3, because of the tiny laser wall falling half of the team into the back hitting multiple party members, because theres no warning about it, when the tiny wall comes.

Phase 3 could have been designed way much better in this fight, without those 2 laser walls rotating. 1 would have been more enough maybe with the change in the mechanic, that the laser wall can change in phase 3 its rotation direction!!
that would make alot more fun, than this ridiculous hard combo of both laser walls plus 2 golems which also start to ridiculously play with the party tennis, because of their way to overpowered fast and long reachign pulling attacks, with that they like to draw you through both laser walls to instant kill you, where you just have no kittening defense against, other than hoping to have stability up at the right time.

If this dungeon would at least not be temporary, then I wouldn’t care about it being hard, because then I would know, that I have basically all the time I need to improve myself and redo it as often as I need, until I get those special skill based achievements.

I’m a kind of perfectionist and my interest in living story would break in totally instantly, if I’d ever miss permanently any achievements forever from them, only because of temporary game content, because I couldn’t make them in time.
It would make me totally frustrated to ever see undone achievements in my list, only because Id be never ever again able to try to get them, because anet will remove the dungeon, once the events are over.

This is it basically, what kittens me off totally right now of this bad dungeon design.
I can accept when people want to have hard content. Thats fine with me, but if anet introduces such hard content, then it should be at least also PERMANENT CONTENT to give all players the chance to get the corresponding achievements, so that perfectionists like me won’t lose the possibility to work on complete achievement lists.

I can’t say much about the rest of this dungeon yet because i didn’t got past Frizz yet, but just Frizz was already frustrating enough, because you start thinking, that this dungeon is just only so insanely hard, because anet wants to use it as money sink from all the millions of player wipes and armory repairs >.< and not to let the majority of their players have over that short duration of those events as much fun as possible.

Fun is, when dungeons are hard to the border, where they are kind of challenging.
They aren’t fun, when they totally cross this border and start to be already like 10 minutes after entering the dungeon to become way too overchallenging.

So where is to problem to make living story dungeons and their achievements also permanently unendlessly accessible???
If Anet wants not to change anything on the dungeon, then make this content at least permament accessible to take off of the players the big pressure to have to do the content in time, before it’s too late!!!!

Implement those dungeons as a chance to get them with the fractals of the mist and if you do them there, people would have also the chance to get the event related achievements and players would have no pressure anymore to have to do them now, while the events are still active!!

Thedenofsin.7340:

Topher.1684:

MOST of the people that probably have no problems with this dungeon are probably still enjoying it in game or doing something else. Vocal minority (imo) =/= the majority.

BTW, completed this multiple times with multiple toons, each time we only had 1 guardian at most in the group, and even then the didn’t always take swiftness/staff.

Please don’t state your opinion as fact. It’s not. It’s exactly that, your opinion. YOU think that most people probably have no problems with this dungeon. YOU think the vocal minority are the ones who find this dungeon overtuned.

If you read what I wrote, I never stated anything as fact. Key words: Probably and imo (in my opinion). Good try though.

I for one am loving this dungeon. It isn’t difficult at all. In fact been playing around with “speed group builds” and we have been able to reach the final boss at around the 14 minute mark. We kill the end boss around the 24-26 minute mark so each run is taking us about 26 minutes.

The biggest thing that makes this dungeon easy is guardian dodge roll healing in the final boss, and having everyone rotate around the room in 1 ball for the cannon phase. At this phase if all 5 are balled up roaming around the room you will not get hit by 1 cannon shot. If you do someone is out of position.

The main problem that I have seen and heard from friends running in pugs is that most pugs still do not seem to realize they can dodge and or are on all zerker or mf sets. Remember guildwars 2 is about synergy. Take 5 minutes after setting up your group to go over armor and skills so that you all take skills that compliment each other. Gaurdian stability for the first boss. warriors- battle standard for last boss
Speed buffs for last boss. Insta downed to res skills for last boss. Most people complaining about pugs have one of the issues mentioned above.

In short this dungeon is one of the best implemented content so far in the game to demonstrate who has any sort of understanding for game mechanics. Good job Anet

Orpheal.8263:

This dungeon is way too ridiculously hard for it being just temporary content.
I absolutely don’t know, what kind of weird people are in here saying, this dungeon is fun.

I do realize the ridiculously unfair overpowered mechanics of this dungeon, which start to kick in, once you reach Frizz, and battle him until the 3rd phase.

If it isn’t just stupidly unfair enough that those dumb golems are basically all the time nearly invulnerable, where a damage reducement of say per se 50-75% would have been more than enough to make those fights hard enough, but giving them basically “god mode” by receiving no damage, only because they are coated in lightnings is god kitten ridiculous!!

Those laserwalls are also way too overpowered, when they can easily kill all in just seconds, if both walls, the tiny and the big one come to happen to hit you both at the same time, then your instant downed and if not all other party members risk their lives at that moment to revive you, you won’t have any chance then anymore to come back by yourself, what makes the whole downed state for this battle OBSOLETE.

I didn’t read your full post so I’ll just comment on the first paragraphs which I did read.

Frizz is really far from impossible, it is not even hard. Yes, if you don’t know what is going to happen you will most likely die, or get penalized because you were fast enough to adapt but some of your party members weren’t.
But once you figured out the mechanics behind the boss fight, the fight itself is rather easy and can be done in a few minutes.

I really fail to understand people who complain on the forums about “hard” and “impossible” content. Just take up the challenge and find a way to beat it. Or wait a few days and find a walkthrough on the wiki or youtube from one of the people who figured it out for you.

It is fun! I just done the 15 minute achievement and there are pointers..
Talk it out with your party what to do.. Getting 1 shot downed by last boss? How about you stop going too far from her in the first place to avoid that.. Cannons last too long? No they don’t. Spread out and look. I too was raging when I done the dungeon first 2 times but I got better at it so did other people and done the achievement with PUG’s…

Good job ANet.. finally something challenging!

Edit: Just red about the 1 guy being down and not being able to kill off the golems.. My guildie mesmer killed both of them ALONE! Yes it is possible if you utilize your skills.

This dungeon was labelled as challenging and it is. It is only hard because people do not know the tactics. If you go into CoE without knowing the tactics it can seem impossible but nowadays everyone assumes that everyone knows the tactics and that every CoE run will be easy.

I would agree that some of the run and dodge sections are too long and that the laser room has slightly too much. You get dragged around by the golem, jump onto some boxes, try to shoot the golems and you have … confusion? Who thought this fight needed some confusion on top of everything else?

At first I thought the red circles from the barrage phase was RNG based too then I realized it’s the fact we weren’t running together, instead running around individually like chickens with our heads cut off so there’ll be times where the direction I’m dodging is actually being pummeled because a friend just left that area…

It is not RNG.

2 KEY things you need to know and overcome is:

1. Cannon phase, stick together, don’t go ahead of your teammates u’ll get them killed. Requires certain degree of coordination.

2. Mai Trin’s Shadow Shot skill almost always targets people who’s trying to max range her. So just stay in 600ish range. This is what kills a lot of the glassy builds.

Stooperdale.3560:

This dungeon was labelled as challenging and it is. It is only hard because people do not know the tactics. If you go into CoE without knowing the tactics it can seem impossible but nowadays everyone assumes that everyone knows the tactics and that every CoE run will be easy.

Oh god I can’t emphasise this enough. I remember when everyone cried about Subject Alpha and how his AoE was impossible to avoid and that the entire dungeon needs to be nerfed to the ground. Now, I can look up an lfg for all paths and run it with a Berserker Warrior, Thief or anything else really and nail all 3 paths in 90 minutes maximum.

Give it 1 or 2 days and this dungeon will be farmed like CoE is.

@ Furesy

if you’re so wise, why don’t you tell os those so “easy” mechanics just here ??
What is please this so easy tactics, other then running and jumping around to try best dodging the laser walls and having mostly always up somehow stability.
How to keep those golems as often as possible away from the lasers so that you can kill them fast enough, before your party wipes slowly but surely or if unlucky really fast after phase 2 shifting over to phase 3 because of all players getting drawn through both walls before any stability was up???

I know I may sound to you like overexaggerating, but thats only because i#m totally frustrated from this dungeon and just boss 1 alone was enough to get me to that point.
The thing that makes me mostly only angry here is, that the content isn’t permanent. So the chances are very high here, that alot of people won’t be able to make those achivements, before the events are over.

I fail to understand people, who just can’t accept, that not everyone is as skilled in such extreme fast paced action things via keyboards, and that alot of people need way more time to get into the mechanics ect. Time, something that again also many people don’t have to adapt fast enough to this partwise way too hard dungeon, before its too late to do this dungeon successfully for these kind of people.

People, which simply don’t have the time to just sit there and wait for several days just doing nothing, until just a good walkthrough video is out there on YouTube that helps in understanding what is to do and how ect. pp.

It really wouldn’t be of a big problem for Anet to make this kind of game content accessible permanently via the FotM Dungeon and instantly there wouldn’t be any pressure there anymore to have to do all this content now, before its too late…

This is the only real thing, that absolutely disturbs me about all this content, lesser the difficulty of the dungeon. The difficulty would be no problem, if Anet would allow us to go for it unendlessly just like all other normal dungeons….

no offence but this would be nightmare if this was placed into fotm rotation. It would be like a 2nd dredge level which everyone crosses fingers not to get. However rewards u get from it really reflect time you put into it.

@ fafnir:
It would be no problem, if ANet would allow players the opportunity to decide manually, if FotM should have a chance for the dungens to appear, or not via talking with a npc first.

Example:

Before you start the fractals, players can decide to talk with 1 of those Asura Crew members there. There would be then one, which could “optimize” the fractals for a cost of some fractal relics or something else.

Once players optimized for the instance the fractal warper field, there would be a chance to get also the living story dungeons among the normal ones.
But if you enter the fractals, when you optimized its difficulty by adding the chance of appearing LS dungeons, the reward for doing so could be, that the chances for getting mist vials ect. would be slightly bigger for killing bosses and looting their chests.

So if you just would like to make fractals without the risk of LS dungeons to appear, then just don’t talk with that Asura NPC and start the fractal run as always …

Win/Win for all.

It doesn’t need nerfing. I’ve finished the dungeon 5 times now with random groups and none of the groups had any real problems. Having said that, i think this dungeon is a step back to the flame and frost dungeon.

@Orpheal

I’m aware not everyone is as good as “top players” but I am far from a top player myself. I am a casual player that still has much of the content that GW2 offers left to explore. I do however, like a challenge. I am always looking around trying to figure out stuff and find ways how to do it better.

My first try in this new dungeon was a miserable fail, I was usually one of the last ones to die but this was mainly because my entire party was new to the dungeon and they were all running full berserker whilst I was not. We spend about 3 hours in the dungeon (checking everything out, figuring the mechanics) before I called it a day and figured I’d try again some other time, we were at the end boss at that time (one of us got DC and ArenaNet closed the dungeon to fix some bugs so he was unable to get back).

I did the dungeon again yesterday with a PUG group and 1 of my guild mates, I explained them the dungeon (they were all new) and we completed it in 40 minutes, wiping only once at the lasers.

I am no pro or good player, I simply fail, try again and fail better

However, I’ll quote one of my other posts from a different topic on the laser part:

For me the following always works. Only use the boxes to avoid the low/fast laser. But don’t stay on the boxes. Just walk in circles following the larger slower lasers and use range to hit the golems. Whenever the lower laser comes along use the boxes to jump over it and repeat the cycle. If everyone of your party does this (nobody remaining static on the boxes for as long as possible) the golems will all run after you and be without shield 60% of the time, resulting in them dying way faster.

Once you mastered this, doing this boss will take you max 10 minutes.

For the end boss, just stick close to Mai to prevent the shadowstep in most cases, she gives very obvious signs before she actually does it (pointing at the player she targets and throwing a lightning bolt of some sort) dodge that and you should have no problems.

By this time I finished the dungeon over 20 times and Ive finally achieved all the achievements. In those +- 20 runs I always ran with full pug party + max one member of my guild. We always got through the first boss with almost no problems (ofc someone died sometimes but we didnt wipe) and we wiped a few times on last boss ( but we wasnt able to finish the dungeon only once).

According to my PUG runs I believe that this dungeon isnt that hard but I also believe that achievements like: “Finish this under 15 minutes, dont get hit by laser or AoE” shoudnt be in game for 2 weeks. It isnt enough time for everyone to finish and its only stressful. Every content untill this one was easy to complete for every casual (in my opinion) and it should stay that way. I dont think that nerfing the fights is good idea.. nope.. but content like AR should be permanent (as a fractal for example) so people will be able to finish the achievements later and wont be stressed.

The flame n’ frost one was way more fun and better designed, than this thing here, because it was kind of challenging, but not way too overchallenging in regard of its achievements setting people under time pressure what is the most bad thing you could do as dungeon designer, this is a big step backwards really.
Setting people under time pressure again is like, as if Anet would have learned absolutely nothing from they previous mistakes regarding this with the Halloween JP, where also alot of people already had complained about it stating that they hate it to get set under time pressure like that.

Maybe it doesn’t need nerfing, but at least a change into some kind of permanent content, so that this stupid annoying time pressure gets out of this otherwise fine game content.

I don’t agree with the dungeon being difficult (just challenging in terms of paying attention). I do however agree with you in terms of some of the achievements. I personally don’t care so much about them so I will simply ignore the ones that say “don’t get hit by the lasers” or “finish this under xx amount of time”.
Having those achievements into temporary content that is here to stay for like 2 weeks is indeed a bit odd, but ah well, it doesn’t bother me much personally but I can understand people that do care about that particular aspect

Fungalfoot.7213:

I love it.

But it should really be a hard mode. It’s way too difficult for most PUGs.

While I agree it is too difficult for PUGs at the moment, I think that speaks more on the state of other dungeons than it does on the difficulty of this dungeon. The popular dungeons are all the ones that people can just stand still and zerk their way through every boss. People have been tailored to this experience for 10ish months now. They aren’t used to actively playing (meaning moving around, not going full damage). And I know you may say “well I don’t play that way and PUGs are still failing”, but it may be possible that the other 4 are just expecting to stand and win.

This dungeon really highlights GW2’s strength of being able to have very fluid, moving boss battles. It’s a step in the right direction. It’ll be a transition of getting people used to play their roles outside of zerk everything down, but people will get there.

This content is certainly not too hard for guilds though (someone else mentioned this).

Fafnir.5124:

no offence but this would be nightmare if this was placed into fotm rotation. It would be like a 2nd dredge level which everyone crosses fingers not to get. However rewards u get from it really reflect time you put into it.

Dredge isn’t difficult at all it is just very long compared to the other fractals . The first bosses room alone takes 15-20mins in the 40s because you have to wait for the mobs to trickle out slowly

Thedenofsin.7340:

Explain what brain cells are required to avoid the random canon fire. It’s RANDOM and sometimes you CANNOT avoid it. How is that a test of skiill?

It’s not random and you can avoid it. But maybe my guardian angel is looking after me since I completed this dungeon 6 times so far – ONLY PUGS – and I didn’t die a single time from cannons.

+ how the fudge can you not avoid it? After the red circle appears you have like 1-2 seconds before you get hit…

Seriously people, what is wrong with you. Go play Sims or whatever ><

Astralporing.1957:

Riss.1536:

LordByron.8369:

Because HP are there for a reason ONESHOTS makes them useless
Thoughness is there for a reason again ONESHOTS makes them useless

Weird, I have never been oneshoot in this dungeon. Wrong build ?

Depends on a class. My guardian bunker gets oneshot-killed if pulled in front of the big laser wall. Combination of relatively low hps compared to other classes, and toughness doing nothing in this case.
(yes, stability and dodging help a bit, but not being pulled every 5 seconds would help more)

My guardian never ran into this problem despite being yanked into the larger laser walls a number of times. I don’t understand how you are getting “oneshot-killed”.

Done it with a Guild group now about 10 Times.

The first run was a bit horrible cause no one knew what to do, but by the 3rd run everyone was on bar what to do and it went smoothly.

The mobs in general are how mobs in dungeons should be a bit on the interesting part of the spectrum. they also have some nice group synergies so get the guys down who say heal or buff and the fight will get lot easier and have some CC of your own blinds/stuns/chills seem to do the most good here.

The Laser room fight is okay in my opinion it took us 5 runs to get the “faster than lightning” achievement but its no where imposible. You don’t even have to jump to the barrels before the 3rd stage of the fight.
Just get someone with a AoE stability or get one from your skills/traits if you have access to it and the golems won’t be a problem.
also having enough direct damage or condition damage helps to kill the golems bit faster. condition damage is actually bit better cause it ticks trough the shields so you have more time to pay attention to the lasers.

Mai/horrik Fight is on bar with the dredge weapon facility fight. it has some nice mechanics and interesting synergy in total. the only minus in the fight is the personal space achievement and the duration of the last bombardment cycle but otherwise its a cool and challenging fight. I really did enjoy the dungeon and have now cleared it 10 times total.

I’ve run this dungeon with 3 pugs and 1 guild group. Some people had trouble the first time, but after they learned the mechanics it wasn’t bad.

I’m glad others are finding this challenging, and hope that the people having trouble find some way to manage.

For me, however, this dungeon is not hard enough. Please give us a real challenge!

Ha! Noobs!

Dislike the long dodging parts at end boss but that’s it.

I agree with OP.
This is clearly a step above my skill level. Not only I don’t have the time to “step up”, but I seriously doubt I will reach that skill level. I passed AR once, and failed in 2 groups so far. I haven’t survive the laser part but it should be feasible in time and it is quite fun. I find the final boss extremely tedious.

And no, this is not “perfectly fine the way it is”. Here are a list of all problems I have with it:
- the very beginning: swimming among mines is boring and just a waste of time.
- the cannon phase is too long. Once you know what to do, no need to make it longer than one minute max. If you really believe epic gameplay is measured by time, then make it 1 hour long each cannon phase.
- Moving Mai into the circles and keeping her inside is painful tedious. I wish she was not immune to movement control.
- It is hard to see the red circles. If you are color blind (I am not), you cannot do this dungeon as it is impossible to see the red circles on green floor.
- this dungeon difficulty is way above all other dungeons.

In the end, this dungeon takes in my experience around 2h to 3h due to the last bosses. As you can see on gw2lfg, this is clearly not worth the effort for 1g: almost nobody care to look for a group, and sometimes people have discrimination classes as heavy armor have an easier time.
And if you think this is easy or not challenging enough with pug, then you clearly have not played enough. Why don’t you join groups like the following one right now on gw2lfg: “Aetherbalde | LF2M | Currently on Last Boss” instead of joining groups like “LF1M for AR. must know to stack and know boss fight running. We will kick you if you don’t…no laggers, no mistakes…Know it or don’t bother….we’re getting the 15 min achieve”.
The biggest issue I have with gw1 and now gw2 is the arrogance of better players to rub in the face of less skill players by glorifying as “this is easy”. Pug does not mean noobs. Accomplishment points does not mean skill but mean hardcore as in someone who play a lot.

quit yo cryin no nerfs fine as it is

What? You get achievement points for having the skill to complete the content. If you have problems with elitist griefing maybe MMOs aren’t for you. Most of your points are valid but saying accomplishments = time played exclusively you’re out of your mind. Try getting Dungeon master without accomplishing the dungeons. I understand you’re frustrated but be realistic.

This dungeon only need two things.

-The red circles in the last boss be more noticeable.
- the Dungeon has to be permanent content.

lekyii.9856:

This dungeon only need two things.

-The red circles in the last boss be more noticeable.
- the Dungeon has to be permanent content.

Oh good, I thought I was the only one having a hard time spotting the red circles. I figured it was because I was running the dungeon after a long, boring day, and that I was just tired.
It would be great if they were a little darker, IMO.

I agree that the dungeon should be permanent. It could give us tokens to spend on the new weapon skins that were data-mined. That would be awesome, though highly unlikely (I mean, why would they give us the skins as a reward for our effort instead of putting them in RNG boxes again, right?).

Last night I would have agreed that it is indeed a very hard dungeon. However, I have gathered some experience and came to the conclusion that this is not a difficult dungeon at all. All it requires is some changes to your loadout and skills: build for the encounter, don’t expect the encounter to be built for you.

There is only one weak/lame mechanic in this dungeon, and that is the golem pull. I would prefer to see it ditched so when you get eaten by lasers it will be 100% your own fault. Even thief gank squads are less lame.

For the final fight the same goes as with the rest of the dungeon: build for condition removal. to be fair, the pug I was in had 2 guardians (myself included) so we also had some decent healing. It’s not hard to heal through the damage. But again, I am no zerker guard, but a symbol+boon healing one with mace+shield/staff.

Finally about the cannon parts: you only need a few dodges if any at all. Spread apart as much as possible and realize that the cannons are actually the easiest part of the fight.

All in all it’s a shame people cry for nerfs after a day instead of figuring out why they are failing. It’s not hard to reach the conclusion that the circles are based on player positions when one half of the floor is filled and the other half is completely empty…

Good dungeon, very puggable.

I’ve already complained enough about Mai and her stupid Defiant in another thread. But in regards to the rest of the dungeon, I’ll defend it. I enjoy the battle with Frizz, the bridges with lightning strikes, the jump pads, and the trash mobs even. Here’s some tips to make your dungeon run more smooth:

• When engaging trash mobs, use control skills to slow them down, and retreat while hitting them with aoe. Don’t go into close combat, unless you have someone to offer protection. A necro with plague form spamming blind makes a big difference. A necro with Spectral Wall helps in stopping a mob from trampling your team.

• At the lightning bridges, have one person lure the mob on the other side, back across the bridge. This improves your survival chances, rather than charging in and being locked in a room with a lot of nasty foes.

• At Frizz, you can bring teleport skills such as the mesmer portal and Spectral Walk. This allows you to skip past the small laser, instead of climbing stacks of crates every time.

• At Frizz, take cover behind crates against ranged enemies, such as the golems.

• Golems will only pull you down, if you are on top of the crates. So only climb them right before the small laser approaches.

• At Mai, stay at medium range. This allows you to see who she is pointing at, and she will be far less likely to leap on top of you. She seems to prioritize far away players, and players that are ressing.

lekyii.9856:

This dungeon only need two things.

-The red circles in the last boss be more noticeable.
- the Dungeon has to be permanent content.

Agreed.

Strejda Tom.6108:

lekyii.9856:

This dungeon only need two things.

-The red circles in the last boss be more noticeable.
- the Dungeon has to be permanent content.

Agreed.

Agreed Agreed.

displacedTitan.6897:

LordByron.8369:

so you are happy that in order to play a “challenging” (debatable) content they have to introduce things that override completely what the game is about.

I knew what would happen with this dungeon even before trying it.

if you need i made a post from before patch…
I wasn t deluded mostly because i know how dungeon team seems incapable of giving any meaning to equipment, skills and traits in PvE.

enjoy SAB 2.0

Do you even read what you write here?

So the fact that this is really hard with no condition removal and in zerker gear doesn’t give any meaning to equipment, skills or traits? Not to mention that stability on Frizz makes it almost too easy of a fight.

Learn some proper grammar and some play skill then come back to the forums, its hard enough getting your poor logic without fighting your inability to type properly.

Thedenofsin.7340:

ANet look at your server stats – you’ve way overtuned this instance.

How many times do you need to be told you have to set up a test server?
How many people need to stop playing before you listen?

Pretty sure most people are enjoying this dungeon. In no way is it “overtuned” why dont you maybe increase your skill level instead of increasing your forum crying.

First boss: I am necro, how do I get stability without destroying my current build?

Second boss: I am necro, how do I get vigor?

I cannot stress enough that the problem with this dungeon is not just that it is super hard. It is how they go about making it hard. Its full of cheap kills. And it is much easier for certain professions than others.

I think the Dungeon is fine. But the achievements tied to it should be nerfed.