Guild Wars 2

Rampant killing = ok
Storyline with indentured servitude = oh noes!

aelflune.8590:

I love this thread.

Yes, I do feel like the stuff we do are highly morally dubious. But the way I see it, we’re playing the role of silly archetypal heroes who have no clue (with the lines our toons spout, what else can we be?) and the devs are being ironic and subtly poking fun at fantasy RPG tropes. #hipstergamer

Or maybe our characters KNOW how horrible all the things we do are, but do them anyway whilst feigning heroic ignorance because they need a plausibly deniable alibi if they’re ever brought up on charges.

At least I like to think so. #everyoneishorrible

I know, those poor skritt and dredge. We have unleashed ethnic cleansing upon them, and all they wanted was some shinies and to mine in peace.

If you talk to the settler representatives, you find that they’re just as annoyed by the riots as the Consortium and the Lionguard.

Basically, the overall plot seems to indicate that the more responsible “settlers” are working behind the scenes for a peaceful unbinding of the contract. In the meantime, the fighting is making things worse for everyone – it’s leaving the settlements potentially vulnerable to creature attack (which would probably be happening even without Canach’s efforts), generally getting people killed unnecessarily, and risking provoking an extreme Consortium response.

Basically, Canach and the instigators are examples of the Well-Intentioned Extremist trope - you can agree with them in principle, but in practise they’re actually hindering efforts that might actually lead to a solution.

The issue is that as PCs in a game that’s mostly revolving around combat, what we see is the fighting against the extremists on both sides, and not the negotiation between moderates that might actually get somewhere.

FateOmega.9601:

Eh, i don’t know about you but i only knocked on the door. The separatist attacked first. I am just defending myself.

This.

I mean, seriously. They see an innocent Sylvari Warrior walking by, just minding his own business, and they attack him? Seriously!? I could understand a Charr or Asura, but a SYLVARI!? Why!? What the hell do they have against Sylvari!? Why!? Why!? WHY!?

So if I wrote a story where people were brutally murdered, am I suddenly endorsing brutal murder?

Florgknight.1589:

So if I wrote a story where people were brutally murdered, am I suddenly endorsing brutal murder?

If you write a book where the hero of the story does that, and nobody sees anything wrong with it, then it might come off that way, yes. Doesn’t mean it’s what you INTENDED it to say, but people might easily read it that way.

Palador.2170:

Florgknight.1589:

So if I wrote a story where people were brutally murdered, am I suddenly endorsing brutal murder?

If you write a book where the hero of the story does that, and nobody sees anything wrong with it, then it might come off that way, yes. Doesn’t mean it’s what you INTENDED it to say, but people might easily read it that way.

Good thing we as human beings have the ability to absolutely not care if people don’t like what we say. It’s wonderful.

Aeonblade.8709:

Good thing we as human beings have the ability to absolutely not care if people don’t like what we say. It’s wonderful.

I’m just trying to point out why some people dislike where the story seems to have lead. It feels bad to them, no matter the intent.

Palador.2170:

Aeonblade.8709:

Good thing we as human beings have the ability to absolutely not care if people don’t like what we say. It’s wonderful.

I’m just trying to point out why some people dislike where the story seems to have lead. It feels bad to them, no matter the intent.

Then don’t do the content? People know there is no such thing as “good” and “evil” right? right!? Especially in a video game haha. Besides I’m sure it will be some free the slaves bonfire on the beach feel good cop out ending like all the other events/quests we get

In this case, Canach is breeding dangerous animals and letting them loose on the island endangering EVERYONE. He might have his heart in the right place, but he’s clearly a danger not just to the bad guys, but the poor oppressed refugees. Not to put too fine a point on it, but making animals more dangerous to everyone is clearly stupid and we need to put an end to it.

That doesn’t mean we can’t sympathize with is cause, but I at least can’t support his methods.

The consortium are evil.

And we’re working to prop them up.

Canach is a hero. A John Brown figure ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Brown_%28abolitionist%29 ). And we take him out…

Not liking that either.

What would you do if you were a settler, btw?

I sure as hell would either fight to the death or run asap, certainly not keep working…

FateOmega.9601:

We are not actually working for the consortium. We are working with the lionguard who to enforce the law. Until the LA leaders deem the consortium actions illegal, the lionguard are obligated to protect them and keep the peace.

And, of course, they are working for the pirate council, so they may be okay with it.

That saying, i wouldn’t worry too much. Story spoilers seem to indicate it won’t be that bad.

Cristobal.8640:

What would you do if you were a settler, btw?

I sure as hell would either fight to the death or run asap, certainly not keep working…

Considering the strength and fortitude of the instigators, I’m actually wondering if they’re staying for the hell of it.

Think about it: there’s an instigator (a CHARR instigator, to drive the point home) every 5 dang minutes in every settlement, and it takes at least 5 people to take one of them down.

They could’ve just attacked Kiel and be done with it.

FateOmega.9601:

But but .. the instigators have chests!

Just shows you what people will do for loot.

Invictus.1503:

Actually it is called indentured servitude. Not quite slavery as they entered the contract willingly, though almost as bad as they tricked them into it. But remember, that is part of why they are the bad guys.

im not into lore and all, but does that mean im helping the bad guys?

I’m not sure how playing the role of peacekeeper is evil. Not to mention, the whole “us helping the Consortium” thing. If you have done the storyline, we are obviously helping the Lionguard, the SoS letters even says any volunteers are deputized, to keep the peace on the island.

As for the lore behind the supporter buff, it’s exactly the same thing. Both sides want you to take down the Instigators, because they are causing more chaos on the island. So there is no real supporting of either side, since both sides want the same thing.

Though, in the end, I guess many people will still want to side with the freedom fighter/extremist, because that role is so romanticized. “Rebel with a cause” and all. Let’s just all casually look away from the fact, that Canach knowingly put the health and lives of innocent settlers at risk with his actions, since there is no way to control the now enraged creatures.

I’m sure the settlers will take comfort in the fact that Canach is fighting for them. Even more so, when the Enraged Karka Queen is trying to kill everyone…

I dont really care about slavery, Im here to kill people and animals (and some robots).

Not sure about endorsing slavery, but I miss Koss, he was useful.

Also I wouldn’t defend Canach either.

The decent situation would’ve gone something like this:

I get to southsun island and inform myself on the situation going on. I kill or capture Noll right away and proceed to put through the sword every single consortium “officer” that does not surrender. Afterwards I interrogate a captured consortium officer and get the info on the mercenaries they hired for the purposes of hunting down and killing civilians if they broke the forced-labor contract. I make plans to hunt down these mercenaries afterwards. Settlers and consortium personnel of lower rank are spared and told to go home, as I consider their use of violence to be legitimate. After that situation is resolved, I hunt Canach down and attempt to capture him or kill him if he resists. If during the whole situation Kiel tries to stop me, I put her through the sword with special joy, for refusing to do the right thing to do in a difficult situation, choosing instead the easy way out: Following orders and “the law”, enabling slavery in the process.

I could make the usual ‘He, you kill basically everything you walk into in this game and are fine with it, but you have a problem with slavery?’

1. The Consortium is not evil as such. Manipulative? Sure, like any other company they try to survive in a dynamic market. Crafty? Trying to turn a creature invested island into a holiday resort and almost succeeding in it sounds crafty enough to me. But in the end the Karka incident that got the ball rolling was an accident, not something they planned to happen (at least until so far it bears all the signs of an accidental screwup).

2. The refugees willingly signed contracts, agreeing to work for the Consortium. Although the terms of the contract may have been harsh/unreasonable what not, the fact remains that they signed out of their own free will without being forced into it.

3. The Lion Guard is effectively a police force, meaning they have to maintain order, see to it that discipline is maintained, preserve the peace at a moderate level and uphold the law. Since the Consortium hasn’t broken any laws, as Kiel during a chat with Noll even indicates herself, she cannot act against the Consortium’s proceedings even though at a personal level she clearly would want to.

Cristobal.8640:

What would you do if you were a settler, btw?

I sure as hell would either fight to the death or run asap, certainly not keep working…

See, if all the people were “settlers” then I’d probably side with them. However the “proud” races of Norn and Charr (lore wise) are here as refugees, aka cowards who ran away from their home when a few dredge and flame legion showed up.

And I don’t mean the ones who fell back to Hoelbrak and the Black Citadel. These people fled all the way to Lion’s Arch and beyond, leaving the rest of their kin to deal with the molten alliance threat. Yeah. Way to go.

Most (all?) consortium are asura, sylvari and human – as are the ones on “vacation” who I’m sure weren’t dumb or desperate enough to sign any contracts. Well… maybe Faren did.

You are helping the lion guard.
On one hand the lionguard is doing what they can to get the settlers out peacefully by getting their contracts. On the other hand we don’t want this to turn into a civil war so Settlers who go to far in fighting things will be defeated. You might have noticed that the leaders of the riots are the only ones needed to be killed. The rest might die in the battle but when the leader is killed and peace is returned, all is good again.

So we are not on the side of the consortium or the side of the settlers, we want a peacefull solution and not like Canach a violent one.

Just thought up a Most Interesting Man meme:

I don’t always have 200% magic find.

But when I do, I slaughter the faction that gave it to me."

A very interesting topic…I’ve been thinking about this as well…
And…who knows how it might turn out in the end…
I would really love to see our character regretting these actions…everyone makes mistakes, and it would surely be refreshing to see something like this in the game.
We are already ‘’too heroic’’ in everything we do…this could add some difference, and by making mistakes, the person usually grows in knowledge and tries not to repeat the same mistakes again.

Lily Miranda.5407:

Just thought up a Most Interesting Man meme:

I don’t always have 200% magic find.

But when I do, I slaughter the faction that gave it to me."

ROFL, I’m sorry but this was just too funny to pass up, but yet plays as to what is happening in this story line.

I do like some of the points about, this story line being a different view or what have you of our character, as us not always being touted as the hero to save the day. I still sort of wish there was more of a choice to it, but you can’t have everything you want. Nonetheless this is an interesting conversation about the story line and made me think in other ways about it, than my initial thoughts.

Lily Miranda.5407:

Just thought up a Most Interesting Man meme:

I don’t always have 200% magic find.

But when I do, I slaughter the faction that gave it to me."

LOL this is so funny xD

Despite everything that I have against many stuff that we end up doing in game, Guild Wars 2 has some crude, ironic humor that never fails to get me.