Guild Wars 2

Was there supposed to be some content between the sample collection and the dungeon that got cut? Because it seems like we jump from “we need to figure out who did this!” to “we’ve got him cornered inside this cave!” without going through the necessary narrative steps one would expect between the two.

It’s not ideal, but they told it through short stories. I think this form allowed for more interesting narration, but it’s also true that not everyone keeps up with this.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/welcome-to-paradise/

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/canachs-story-an-after-hours-meeting/

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/livingworld/southsun/Canach-s-Mutation-Radical-Change/first#post2076148

That seriously upsets me. That sort of “we’ll just stick the story in some magazine article because it doesn’t really matter if anyone can actually follow the plotline in the game” attitude is exactly the reason I ended up quitting World of Warcraft.

After the horrible personal story, they must have decided to give up on story-telling. I don’t blame them.
Just wish I could get a $40 refund off the $60 I paid, because I play games for the story, then the combat.

Some of the open-world dialog explained parts of what was happening. Canach was name dropped a few times by the inspector. But I agree, the story wasn’t presented very well. However, I DO like how the subtext of the flower back piece explained part of the mystery.

I think there was something like Kiel walking around the island talking to different people at different settlements and finding out it was canach but i only found that by chance and really it should have been a series of events.

You expected more?
The personal story pretty much set the stage, and after how abbreviated F&F was, this is pretty much par for the course…

“Living Story” has proven to be a failed concept. Sorry guys, but a lot of development time is being wasted that would have been much better spent elsewhere.

I love world PvE, exploration and Story. The Living Story would appear to be in line with what I like from the game, but in practice it just isn’t working.

The story part apparently gets written by the writers, but the rest of the team just can’t get the story properly into the game. Most of the content isn’t fun, doesn’t feel like it really has an impact on the world and is temporary.

I’m really at a loss. If you look at what the company produced in five years, compared to what they’ve produced in the last eight months, it seems like their efficiency is less than 33% of what it was pre-launch, maybe even worse. I mean, all those zones, all those DEs and all those Personal Story elements, then in eight months we haven’t even had one full zone’s worth of content, or a tenth of a single character’s personal story in narrative.

It would be slightly less disappointing if it was because 3/4 of the company was working on a full expansion, but supposedly they haven’t done any work on an expansion as of a month ago?

It’s just weird. Either they have lost their rudder as a studio, or they are working on some other project, which wouldn’t make much sense given the potential that GW2 had, but has been squandering, with each passing month.

I got dumped on an overflow server and got hit by the missing map marker bug and had no frikken idea what to do.
Ran in from the gate and specifically looked around, searching for the next clue around the gate area.
No clue, NOTHING!

ANet, if this is your idea of quality storytelling then you got a lot to learn, ASAP!

Agree with this posts. Big dissapointment is the word. The story telling is terrible.

wait there was a story?! o.O

this whole series didn’t make any sense- suddenly you ended up on southsun and then you end up fighting canach and sub directior null… who I honestly have no idea who they are and their role in all of this.

nothing really felt engaging at all.

only strength I can credit is that their marketing is top notch though

The story isn’t disjointed at all. It is just not presented in your face. The trick is to talk to the NPCs and I don’t mean the ones clearly marked but all the NPCs. A lot of them will tell you whats happening to them and in so doing they’re painting a bigger picture.

Its also important to note this story builds upon the Lost shores. Canach and Subdirector Noll were main characters in the Lost Shores. They already had a history and this kinda builds upon it.

This method of delivery is consistent across all of GW2 though. Story is something you have to get to by talking to the NPC involved. Its a realistic way of delivery in my opinion. Sure its harder then more traditional methods no doubt but the only difference is you’re not told who you have to speak to and at the end there isnt really a need for that because everyone generally has something to say on the subject at hand.

I hoped they would improve their storytelling after the abysmally bad personal story, but the Living Story has been even worse so far: disjointed, cliched and badly-acted (Rox’s VA, ugh). The content that came with it was laughable at best, with the exception of the Molten Facility. ANet really needs to rethink the whole concept and hire some new writers.

Why do people need the story thrown in their face to see it?
There is actually quite a bit of story in the updates, but you actually have to actively speak/listen to NPCs in order to get it. Just like in the real world.

I think it was quite clear that Canach was suspected for the situation at hand and it was also quite clear that Kiel knew that and where she were going to look for him.

I remember when Anet used to be pretty darned good at storytelling, with compelling characters that had, ya know, actual character. Depth. Emotional resonance. There were some stumbles along the way, sure, but overall it not unlike watching mid-70s Jimmy Page playing a guitar solo – the flashes of brilliance outshone the occasional oopsies. I wish that was still the case.

At this point in the evolution of the Living Story, however, I think the ‘story’ is just getting in the way of the action. I think all we really need is a coin slot and someone to say “Warrior needs food!”

Substitute your favorite profession for ‘warrior’, of course.

Sauronych.2407:

ANet really needs to rethink the whole concept and hire some new writers.

They don’t need to hire new writers!
I really like Scott McGough and his texts about Canach. The problem with the last patch is that there is not enough of his great texts and that the “dungeon” itself is so disappointing. But these are engine-problems not story-problems.

Galen Grey.4709:

Its also important to note this story builds upon the Lost shores. Canach and Subdirector Noll were main characters in the Lost Shores. They already had a history and this kinda builds upon it.

Maybe you had a different experience than the majority, but 90% of the Lost Shores content was broken and uncompleteable.

enos.1580:

Maybe you had a different experience than the majority, but 90% of the Lost Shores content was broken and uncompleteable.

That is actually bullkitten. There were very little that were permanently broken back in Lost Shores. Sure it lagged. Sure people got disconnected, but the events themselves worked quite well.

enos.1580:

Galen Grey.4709:

Its also important to note this story builds upon the Lost shores. Canach and Subdirector Noll were main characters in the Lost Shores. They already had a history and this kinda builds upon it.

Maybe you had a different experience than the majority, but 90% of the Lost Shores content was broken and uncompleteable.

The event had bugs but they were fixed. I still have every letter I got from the time (I think it is every letter). And the story there was interesting in my opinion.

enos.1580:

Galen Grey.4709:

Its also important to note this story builds upon the Lost shores. Canach and Subdirector Noll were main characters in the Lost Shores. They already had a history and this kinda builds upon it.

Maybe you had a different experience than the majority, but 90% of the Lost Shores content was broken and uncompleted.

Like Niyo said above. You’re right Lost shores did have problems such as NPCs that were meant to become friendly when beaten actually getting killed and not re-spawning at all and thus halting progress. These however were all fixed before the end of the event and it was possible to experience all the story near the end.

I get that some people might have given up and never tried again thus never completed the story. But this is the internet, people who truly wanted to follow the story could search it up. There are detailed accounts of what happens in the Lost Shore online.

Galen Grey.4709:

I get that some people might have given up and never tried again thus never completed the story. But this is the internet, people who truly wanted to follow the story could search it up. There are detailed accounts of what happens in the Lost Shore online.

The GW2-Wiki helps there a lot.
And for those interested in the old letters of the Lost Shore-event I just started a new thread were I collected them:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/livingworld/southsun/Lost-Shore-Old-Letters-from-the-Story

I hope the work I just had with this will worth it and somebody will read it…

Galen Grey.4709:

people who truly wanted to follow the story could search it up. There are detailed accounts of what happens in the Lost Shore online.

Thats where the problem lies, the story elements is not entirely nor completely obvious, in RPG games the story is usually the driving factor for new content and that delivery of that is quite important, it should always be absolutely clear, which for alot of people it isn’t.

No one should have to search online or read up on the internet to understand, the game should be able to give you clear view of what is going on, that’s like going to a movie and not really understanding anything that is going on, then someone tells you to follow it up on the internet..

Were a different audience than we were in the past and for alot, reading blocks of text is something is acceptable in the past but in modern gaming this is becoming far less common practice and players now a days tend to skip or skim past it, yes you can say lay blame on the user for not reading the content and to a degree that is correct but it also partly to also look at the developers and ask, why aren’t they embracing more modern techniques such as voice driven acting or cut scenes to drive story content?

Actually in most RPGs I have played you had to work a bit to get information about stuff. Not everything needs to be pushed into your face.
A RPG is about living the world after all, and it is not much of a world if you don’t have to ask around for information, is it?

dronzer.8392:

No one should have to search online or read up on the internet to understand, the game should be able to give you clear view of what is going on, that’s like going to a movie and not really understanding anything that is going on, then someone tells you to follow it up on the internet..

The problem here is: When you go to watch a movie from which you missed the first hour cause you were late, you have to ask someone for a summary or read a summary on the internet.

blud.8174:

It’s not ideal, but they told it through short stories. I think this form allowed for more interesting narration, but it’s also true that not everyone keeps up with this.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/welcome-to-paradise/

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/canachs-story-an-after-hours-meeting/

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/livingworld/southsun/Canach-s-Mutation-Radical-Change/first#post2076148

This needs to be shown in the game not told in these mini blog posts. I don’t mind reading in games, but I expect the devs to incorporate storytelling with gameplay. We’re playing a game, not a novel. Right now, I agree the whole thing is really disjointed. Anet should really take a page out of LOTRO’s storytelling. All their storylines are self contained within the quests themselves.

@ Niyo
If it’s a movie you want to see , I highly doubt you’ll be an hour late and if one were, one would wait for the next screening- why? so you don’t fall into that exact position you’re describing.

@Lordkrall.
I’m not saying you shouldn’t work, just blocks of text is an outdated delivery method, and is often nowadays used to support or expand the story rather than being the main course for it’s delivery, I’m saying that if a different method was used, prehaps voice driven or some alternative that is more “modern” it would be much more engaging for the players.

edit:
agreeing exactly with what catofnine said.

But thats just the thing: The information IS in the game, but you have to actually talk to more NPCs than those few that have stars over their heads.

Well, telling the story through things NPCs say is fine. However I have to say I think I talked to everyone I could find, explored dialog branches and STILL didn’t really pick up on Canach, or anything other than the basic unpleasantness that was going on. No real “clues” per se.

For those claiming it’s absolutely necessary to go read a wiki to pick up on story elements that came before, have you NEVER read a book that had a synopsis at the beginning? Seriously, it’s not that rare. There are ways to explain the story thus far in ways that are in the same media (book, movie, game, etc).

If there were vital NPC dialogs that did have clues in them, it probably couldn’t have hurt to have highlighted them a little more. It’s been a LONG freakin’ time since I played Ultima 4 and 5 and went around to every single moving icon and asked them NAME, JOB, and BRITISH.

I missed the Lost Shores event, but had no trouble understanding the story here. On the first day of the new event, I walked through that asura and started talking to NPCs at Pearl Islet.
-Henrika(norn woman standing by subdirector Noll) said right away what a mistake it was for her to get help from Canach.
-Researcher Levvi(who you get the collector from) telling you to collect samples from these funny plants and when you finikitten, you get the backpiece item description that says outright it was Canach.

After the first week, I noticed some new things popping up.
-New memo at Steampipe Steading saying how the records were being destroyed on the mainland and Noll needs to protect the ones on the island.
-Inspector Kiel started talking to Noll about how the animals are targeting the buildings with records.
-During or after a crazed wildlife attack event at Steampipe Steading you will see Henrika walk in from Driftglass and hide in the bushes as Inspector Kiel comes to talk to her about getting help from Canach to destroy their contracts.
-Reseacher Levvi talks to Inspector Kiel on the holo communicator about how Canach’s plants are driving animals wild.

I think what they could have done is when you enter the solo dungeon to fight Canach, you get a cutscene of still pictures or even just an NPC conversation that can’t be skipped before you are able to go fight Canach. It would sum up what is happening.

dronzer.8392:

@ Niyo
If it’s a movie you want to see , I highly doubt you’ll be an hour late and if one were, one would wait for the next screening- why? so you don’t fall into that exact position you’re describing.

The movie was your example. I for myself want to see the “movie” which is GW2 and so I am here since beta and know the old story-events.

Remillard.8691:

For those claiming it’s absolutely necessary to go read a wiki to pick up on story elements that came before, have you NEVER read a book that had a synopsis at the beginning? Seriously, it’s not that rare. There are ways to explain the story thus far in ways that are in the same media (book, movie, game, etc).

Problem is: You can’t bring a “synopsis” on every part of the living story, cause it’s an ongoing story. And since there are on every day people who just started with playing GW2 it’s hard to find points on which you can make a summary. And a summary after every week (as an example) would be too much. So it’s better to read it in the Wiki, cause GW2 has a great Wiki where you can get almost every information you want. I really miss something like that in other games.

lordkrall.7241:

Actually in most RPGs I have played you had to work a bit to get information about stuff. Not everything needs to be pushed into your face.
A RPG is about living the world after all, and it is not much of a world if you don’t have to ask around for information, is it?

I disagree, there were quite a few cutscenes in F&F and personally I liked the story-delivery much more. Braham and Rox, even though there was not a lot of lore to it, had much more character than Kiel, Canach and Noll together.

There was also backgroundstory on Braham and Rox on the blog, I really don’t understand why there is no way to implement those masterpieces into the game. Those who want to follow probably do, but those who don’t know about it never will.

Marcus Greythorne.6843:

Braham and Rox, even though there was not a lot of lore to it, had much more character than Kiel, Canach and Noll together.

I disagree. I think Canach has much more character than Rox or Braham.

I definately agree with this. There was no explanation or storytelling at all between Levvi trying to figure out who was behind it and Canach being revealed as the culprit. Levvi didn’t even have different text options after you finished getting all of her samples, she said the exact same thing she said before you got them (which I was hugely disappointed by). Overall there’s been very little story period in Last Stand at Southsun, but this is definately the worst offender.

The only in-game clues toward this development are the description on the Fervid Censor (which just pops up out of nowhere) and a random conversation between Kiel and some other NPC in one of the settlements, where she guesses that Canach is behind it (which many people wouldn’t even see). Well, and the achievements which just blatently spoil it, but those should have been hidden anyway.

What should have happened was, after getting 10 samples, an instanced conversation like the ones that were found in F&F (the ones in Black Citadel and Hoelbrak) opens up at the research outpost where Levvi tells Keil and the player about what she found from the samples. She probably still wouldn’t know it was Canach, but she could surmise it was a plant-based toxin and probably of Sylvari origin. After telling Keil what she found, Levii would talk to the player and tell them that she developed a non-toxic replica of the device used to spread the toxins and was presenting it to the player as a reward for their help, and then the player would recieve the Fervid Censor at the end of this instance (I really hate that it just appears out of nowhere, I want my rewards given to me or dropped, not just “poof, here it is”). The Fervid Censor description would not have mentioned Canach speficially, it would have just said “This device was used to spread toxins around the island”.

After the instance with Levvi, another instanced conversation would become available which would include the conversation between Kiel and the NPC where Kiel realizes that Canach is behind the attack.

I realize that they want to make Living Story as “seemless” as possible and putting conversations like the above on just into the world as a whole does make them seem a bit more natural, but something as important as the realization of who the culprit is shouldn’t just be left up to chance, that the player “might” stumple upon it. It needs to be specifically pointed out.

I also agree wholeheartedly with the general feeling that Anet should put backstory and such in-game and not all in blog posts. If they want to include them in blog posts as well, that’d be fine, but the information about the game should be available in the game, not require reading a bunch of outside sources.

Well I may have just missed that stuff at Steampipe. I do remember the woman who said it was a mistake to get help from Canach, and there’s the backpiece — but seems to me like that’s a long way from linking him. Now, there’s another post that has a bunch of the emails that were associated with the Lost Shores event. All of that included with the clues provided might have fleshed things out a bit.

I think more exposition would have been better, and the single player instance/dungeon/event would have been a fine place to put it.

As for not bringing a synopsis on every part of the living story because it’s ongoing, that’s simply silly. Here, based on everything I’ve pieced together after the fact, I’ll do it right now.

Initial dialog with Inspector Kiel on Day 1 of Southsun.
“Well we’re back here, hopefully it won’t be as chaotic as last time!”
Player response: “Why, what happened last time?”

And voila… a perfect introduction into relating most of what was conveyed by emails in the prior event. If you already knew what happened in detail, then you don’t have to read it, or you can skim it. If you didn’t, well this is a great time to find out a lot of backstory information in the game.

I do agree the wiki is a WONDERFUL resource. I just don’t think it should be relied on as the SOLE place to explain things that came before. For a creative storytelling mind, there will be ways to draw your player characters into the world, help them find context for your current story without the assumption that they participated before, or the assumption that all you have to do is rely on the wiki.

Honestly, making Kiel sort of a “heart” would have been really nice. I know GW2 has shunned the use of !/? quests for the larger world but providing a driving mechanism to put the player into various locations and situations that were expository to the story might have been another way to do it. The achievement system was an interesting mechanism for driving exploration to various parts of the island, but did keep the focus on their little “tool” for doing the collections. If the Kiel heart got player characters to go question witnesses and report back findings, or search regions for clues, that might have also been a good way to work this TYPE of story.

I think TYPE of story is important here. Flame and Frost was a region wide ongoing story. Things were happening to everyone in Ascalon and Shiverpeaks with attacks. The two personal instances with Rox and Braham were great for uncovering more of the story, as were the spy dead-drops. A police procedural is a very different kind of story and involves a lot more direct involvement — Agatha Christie, CSI, Colombo, LA Noire, etc. Would that have been tricky to implement in an MMO? Very possibly. Still I think more could have been done in this vein to bring player characters into Southsun.

Electro.4173:

She probably still wouldn’t know it was Canach, but she could surmise it was a plant-based toxin and probably of Sylvari origin.

It is not of sylvari origin. I think the toxin is from the new plant species which Canach researched in november (and whose research caused the trouble with the karka on the first hand).

Electro.4173:

The Fervid Censor description would not have mentioned Canach speficially, it would have just said “This device was used to spread toxins around the island”.

I’m really happy that his name is on the backpiece. So when the story ends I have something which reminds me of my favourite NPC and has his name on it.

EDIT:

Now, there’s another post that has a bunch of the emails that were associated with the Lost Shores event.

Thank you for reading my summary. ^^

Remillard.8691:

Initial dialog with Inspector Kiel on Day 1 of Southsun.
“Well we’re back here, hopefully it won’t be as chaotic as last time!”
Player response: “Why, what happened last time?”

And voila… a perfect introduction into relating most of what was conveyed by emails in the prior event. If you already knew what happened in detail, then you don’t have to read it, or you can skim it. If you didn’t, well this is a great time to find out a lot of backstory information in the game.

I agree with you. That would be a good way to bring back the old story.

Niyo.5920:

Marcus Greythorne.6843:

Braham and Rox, even though there was not a lot of lore to it, had much more character than Kiel, Canach and Noll together.

I disagree. I think Canach has much more character than Rox or Braham.

once you know the blogposts or before it?

I started a thread before about how they should stop relying on the achievement screen as a “quest log” for the living story. It’s simply a list of things to do, most can be condensed, gives players no context to their activities, plus it spoils the ending. They should have made Researcher Levvi into a Heart NPC that tells you to collect samples and after you do, she becomes a karma vendor with new dialogue options and sells you the flower backpiece that she was able to construct from the samples. Inspector Kiel’s deputy could have also been a Heart NPC that was tied to the 25 achievements. He would tell you to patrol the island(visit all the settlements), talk to guest/read memos, keep the peace(doing events with supporter buffs). After you finish all the hearts(essentially it is just the 25 achievements in heart form), you talk to Inspector Kiel and she’ll reward you with something the Lionguard have recovered from fighting karka on the island which is the tentacle backpiece.

Marcus Greythorne.6843:

Niyo.5920:

Marcus Greythorne.6843:

Braham and Rox, even though there was not a lot of lore to it, had much more character than Kiel, Canach and Noll together.

I disagree. I think Canach has much more character than Rox or Braham.

once you know the blogposts or before it?

Canach is my favourite NPC since I first met him in the Lost Shore-event in november.

Niyo.5920:

Galen Grey.4709:

I get that some people might have given up and never tried again thus never completed the story. But this is the internet, people who truly wanted to follow the story could search it up. There are detailed accounts of what happens in the Lost Shore online.

The GW2-Wiki helps there a lot.
And for those interested in the old letters of the Lost Shore-event I just started a new thread were I collected them:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/livingworld/southsun/Lost-Shore-Old-Letters-from-the-Story

I hope the work I just had with this will worth it and somebody will read it…

Here’s my write-up of the whole Lost Shores story that I’ve been (unfortunately) neglecting to move new pieces over to the proper articles (there’s conversations that need to be moved to proper articles):

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/User:Vahkris/The_Lost_Shores_Story

That should give plenty of background there, and many parts a ton of people never saw. The problem ArenaNet had with the narrative here is that they presented the story as an open world story, where NPCs in various places present their bits and the player learns about the story as a whole without being bombarded with exposition (not a good thing in an interactive medium). However, it was also a one-time event, so many players missed a huge amount, but never questioned it (and even directed players away from where the exposition was going to occur during the initial invasion by telling everyone to go to the lighthouse). That was a major issue they had there.

The wiki is actually perfect here as it’s linked to the game (type /wiki and an NPC or item and it’ll try to bring it up), and since the wiki is intended to document the game it’s the perfect place for no-longer-existing content to be presented so players can learn about it (cross-linking really helps here). It shouldn’t be considered separate from the game, nor should the main website.

As far as the story involved since Lost Shores?

Kiel remained on Southsun, letting us know that Canach escaped and vowed to deal with him should he re-appear. This was actually in-game , since Kiel has remained at Canach’s Folly on Southsun Cove between these two events.

Important lore bits that explain the story of Secret of Southsun:
From
1. The mail received from Inspector Kiel at the beginning
2. The conversations with Inspector Kiel, Consortium/Settler negotiators nearby, Subdirector Noll, Lord Faren, Lady Kasmeer Meade, and Researcher Levvi. (Note, only view May 14th to May 20th conversations right now)
2a. The idle conversations with all of these NPCs. (Same note as above).
3. The conversation between Inspector Kiel and Henrika after the crazed animal attack in Driftglass Springs, where Henrika describes the sylvari who supplied her, and Kiel suspects Canach. (http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Henrika)
4. Conversation with Henrika in Pearl Islet, where she names Canach as the person who gave her the stuff.
5. The various confrontations/conversations that happen with settlers, such as the brawl between Aggren Vicegrip and the Consortium (and the followup conv with Kiel), as well as the conversation between Tergvi and the Job-o-Tron, showing how miserable life is for the settlers. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Tergvi and http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Aggren_Vicegrip
6. The memos and settler journal placed around (http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Consortium_Memo and http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Settler_Journal)
7. The second dialogue of Kiel, and her idle conversation with Subdirector Noll, where he reveals the animals are targeting the locations of the refugee contracts.

Last Stand at Southsun lore bits so far
1. The new mail received
2. The new conversations of Kiel and Levvi
2. The Log Book Fragment at Canach’s Folly
3. The quick chat of the deputy at the entrance to Canach’s Lair
4. The conversations with Kiel at the entrance of each version of the instance
5. The post-fight dialogue between Kiel, Canach, and Marcela Oakaxe (who for some reason is around).

That’s what I can remember off-hand, and I haven’t even referenced the background lore posted on the main GW2 website (which IMO is still fair game for information). It’s not perfect, there are definitely some missing holes, and it’s not direct exposition, but there’s definitely story there…it’s just an open world story you need to piece together. It’s not a normal story where you go from a pre-directed A to B and get told exposition after exposition.

And if you miss something, that’s why we have a wiki.

Wow. Thanks for that!

I couple problems I had with the storytelling:

It’s been 7 months since Lost Shores. I believe I met Canach during that event, but at this point, I didn’t remember him at all. Noll was bugged out on my server and I never met him at all. Serial TV shows often open with a quick review events relevant to the current episode; this was needed here (as mentioned above, perhaps in your initial conversation with Kiel).

I basically lost all interest in the “mystery” after seeing the spoilers in the achievement list and then the backpiece flavor-text. Achievements that couldn’t be gotten shouldn’t have been displayed and the backpiece flavor-text should have appeared only after the event was over.

Also, am I the only one who didn’t like the whole idea of the settler contracts and how destroying them would free the settlers? Seems VERY simplistic — it kinda reminds me of when Prince changed his name in an attempt to void contracts he signed. Furthermore, the whole idea of contracts, to me, seems a bit out of place in this world. Plus, how many people in this world can read/write, I wonder? All of these small things put together become, for me, completely immersion breaking.

I can´t believe people are actually defending how the “living” story is presented in Southsun.

Yes, you can go around and talk to every frikken NPC and barmaid and usually get the standard blurb.
Yes, if the NPC has an actual name then there´s info to be had.

But the NPC text usually stays the same, no matter what you do!

And if something actually changes there´s no way of knowing where and when short of clicking every NPC again to “farm” the story.
This is not storytelling but simply coding laziness.
Reminds me of self-serving marts. Where you have to scan your groceries yourself, so that they can fire the cashiers.

You really want to claim that no matter how many of the shrubs you pinged, reading the same text over and over on that Asura that gives you the “Shrubbery-ping” Quest is good storytelling?
As was already mentioned, make it a heart “quest” if you can´t manage to code it properly. So the NPCs can actually react to the supposedly living world.

Props to the wiki guys that actually take ANets responsibilities on their shoulders and do their work for free.

I actually liked the first part of this Living story – at least you had tons of events a quite a bit on the side to do on Southsun, lively NPC, etc.
But the storydungeon…not only does it seem really disjointed, the half of the audio appears to be missing. Also, I would have liked some kind of intro into the dungeon, some exposition – you, like we get in pretty much every other dungeon. The mechanics are a nice touch, but quite a bit too annoying for my taste (in the explorable mode, at least).

How does Canach fit into Flame and Frost? Is it merely because of the refugees? Or is there a deeper connection? Is Canach meant to be our nemesis that was alluded to by one of the devs? If so, in what way is he our nemesis? We’ve had very little interaction with him, so how does he become our nemesis?

I’m confused by this arc of the living story

The refugees are the link. Canach has to deal with Southsun. Read the wiki for Lost Shores since you likely missed it. Read the wiki for Flame and Frost as well as the current one to refresh your memory. It’ll make more sense after that.

Ema.4953:

How does Canach fit into Flame and Frost? Is it merely because of the refugees? Or is there a deeper connection? Is Canach meant to be our nemesis that was alluded to by one of the devs? If so, in what way is he our nemesis? We’ve had very little interaction with him, so how does he become our nemesis?

Here is a quote from Scott McGough from another thread:

Scott McGough.6897:

Canach’s look has indeed undergone a major change since The Lost Shores, and I regret that there isn’t more background available regarding how it happened, but let me address the question here: his change in appearance is almost entirely due to the hardships he’s endured since he escaped Lionguard custody. He’s a fugitive from justice, he’s had Noll’s freelance decommission teams trying to kill him, and he’s utterly alone, so it’s been a tough couple of months for the sylvari fugitive.

Being on the run, fighting for his life, and killing the killers sent after him have weathered Canach; plus, he made a concerted effort to change his look (hairstyle, etc.) so as not to be recognized and arrested by the Lionguard. It’s quite a come down from the high position and status he enjoyed as a secondborn (even if that status was never as high as he thought it should be), and his new, grimmer look is meant to reflect the psychological toll he’s had to pay as well as the physical one.

As for the flaming gauntlets, remember that Canach is a seasoned combat veteran and an experienced guerilla fighter with a fairly twisted sense of what’s right. When he heard about the Molten Alliance refugees resettling on Southsun Cove, he saw a chance to help other Consortium victims and get even with Noll. But like a good soldier, he wanted to understand the situation in which he was about to involve himself, so he made a point of seeking out one of the Molten Alliance weapons facilities and clearing it. He obtained the gauntlets from that escapade and wears them now as a symbol of his newly adopted (and so far poorly executed) role as a champion of the weak…right before he set out for Southsun Cove to settle things with Noll.

That might help. It’s from this thread:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/livingworld/southsun/Canach-s-Mutation-Radical-Change/first

Niyo.5920:

That might help. It’s from this thread:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/livingworld/southsun/Canach-s-Mutation-Radical-Change/first

which was also never explained ingame :-/

Marcus Greythorne.6843:

Niyo.5920:

That might help. It’s from this thread:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/livingworld/southsun/Canach-s-Mutation-Radical-Change/first

which was also never explained ingame :-/

Yes. And that’s a pity!

I’ve got to especially agree with the sentiment that relegating the deeper storytelling to blogposts and the like is a major detriment to the game. Honestly, looking back, this is an issue I’ve had with the game from the start.

We had glimpses of brilliance and an image of an amazingly-engaging world back when they first started posting about the Skritt and the Krait and such and this got my hopes up that it would be awesome to see everything unfold (along with how immersive dynamic events sounded like they could have been).

Instead, I got little-to-none of that depth in-game with most characters and scenarios feeling like superficial filler, the threat of the elder dragons reduced to ‘just another conflict’, and all of the interactions I was interested in seeing handled lazily if at all (Skritt vs. Asura in particular).

I just don’t understand how they can have this exciting vision for the world and convey that so handily outside the game, but completely miss the mark when implementing it.