Guild Wars 2

Caedmon.6798:

Vayne.8563:

Caedmon.6798:

Vayne.8563:

Caedmon.6798:

Flissy.4093:

Assyrian.4827:

We have players under the age of 18 if they do buy it is that illegal(online gambling).

It’s not gambling. You are GUARENTEED to get something, just maybe not what you want.

I guess lucky dips should be illegal for children too.

It is gambling.The item you want is not guaranteed when opening the chest,you buy the chests to get a chance on the weapon skins,and nothing else..How in the world are you missing the fact that this is gambling ?

Gambling “. To take a risk in the hope of gaining an advantage or a benefit.” " An act or undertaking of uncertain outcome; a risk: I took a gamble that stock prices would rise."

It’s not gambling, because you don’t have to buy it for the skin. The skin is just one possible item that you can get. It’s like buying a raffle. You get a raffle without any guarantee of getting anything except that you get nothing for buying it and only get something if you win. In this case, you’re buying something which contains something. It’s not TECHNICALLY gambling.

If you put a dollar in a slot machine there’s no guarantee you get anything out of it. If you buy a consortium chest, you get something for your money.

I mean for years, cereal packets have random prices in them. Collect all the toys. Collect all the stickers. We’ve seen McDonalds have a monopoly game where you have to get different pieces to get a chance to win.

Gambling? Nah, not really. But it’s still annoying as hell. lol

.Read the definition of gambling,because it is.And dont even compare gambling to cereal packets,wich you buy to Feed yourself and the toy is a little extra,you dont get a chance to get food,you get food for 100% and a chance on a toy.In this case,i would buy the chest to get the skin since im not interested in getting anything else,now if im buying 100 boxes because i want the weapon skin and i keep getting something else,How is this not gambling….? You can keep telling yourself it isn’t,but it is.

Again..Gambling; An act or undertaking of uncertain outcome; a risk
I buy those chest to get a weapon with uncertain outcome…it’s a risk……

By your definition then, running a dungeon for tokens is a risk too, because there’s no guarantee you’ll complete it. It may be gambling in your mind, it’s not gambling by law. And that’s sorta what matters. You can’t regulate something that isn’t gambling.

Baseball cards have random cards in them, you buy them in packs for real money and there’s no guarantee you’ll get a good card. It’s not considered gambling.

It’s not by my definition,it’s by the Dictionairy’s definition,wich you can’t seem to grasp.

I can grasp that…sure, but it weakens your argument. Because by the dictionary definition, asking for a raise is a gamble, submitting a piece of writing to a publishing company is a gamble (I know I’ve done it…won some lost some), asking a girl out on a date is a gamble. The word gamble is widely used to mean a lot of things.

The problem is, the way you want to apply that to this is simply misleading. The gambling other people seem to be talking about is that of the illegal kind. And ALL of this really weakens the only real argument that can be used here.

Is it a bad thing for them to do? Calling it gambling doesn’t strengthen the argument against it, because it’s so easily dismissed. Calling it illegal likewise.

Calling it greedy, on the other hand, is a lot harder to refute. If you’re going to argue against something, using the wrong word doesn’t help you win.

You get them quite easily — and for free — killing in SS, especially with that magic find on. Definitely no reason to buy them.

The only time I give and buy RNG is when I have the gold to blow. Real cash gems are only for Anet’s non-kittenish sales. -.^

Vayne.8563:

Caedmon.6798:

Vayne.8563:

Caedmon.6798:

Flissy.4093:

Assyrian.4827:

We have players under the age of 18 if they do buy it is that illegal(online gambling).

It’s not gambling. You are GUARENTEED to get something, just maybe not what you want.

I guess lucky dips should be illegal for children too.

It is gambling.The item you want is not guaranteed when opening the chest,you buy the chests to get a chance on the weapon skins,and nothing else..How in the world are you missing the fact that this is gambling ?

Gambling “. To take a risk in the hope of gaining an advantage or a benefit.” " An act or undertaking of uncertain outcome; a risk: I took a gamble that stock prices would rise."

It’s not gambling, because you don’t have to buy it for the skin. The skin is just one possible item that you can get. It’s like buying a raffle. You get a raffle without any guarantee of getting anything except that you get nothing for buying it and only get something if you win. In this case, you’re buying something which contains something. It’s not TECHNICALLY gambling.

If you put a dollar in a slot machine there’s no guarantee you get anything out of it. If you buy a consortium chest, you get something for your money.

I mean for years, cereal packets have random prices in them. Collect all the toys. Collect all the stickers. We’ve seen McDonalds have a monopoly game where you have to get different pieces to get a chance to win.

Gambling? Nah, not really. But it’s still annoying as hell. lol

.Read the definition of gambling,because it is.And dont even compare gambling to cereal packets,wich you buy to Feed yourself and the toy is a little extra,you dont get a chance to get food,you get food for 100% and a chance on a toy.In this case,i would buy the chest to get the skin since im not interested in getting anything else,now if im buying 100 boxes because i want the weapon skin and i keep getting something else,How is this not gambling….? You can keep telling yourself it isn’t,but it is.

Again..Gambling; An act or undertaking of uncertain outcome; a risk
I buy those chest to get a weapon with uncertain outcome…it’s a risk……

By your definition then, running a dungeon for tokens is a risk too, because there’s no guarantee you’ll complete it. It may be gambling in your mind, it’s not gambling by law. And that’s sorta what matters. You can’t regulate something that isn’t gambling.

Baseball cards have random cards in them, you buy them in packs for real money and there’s no guarantee you’ll get a good card. It’s not considered gambling.

Not really a good comparison.

Dungeon running, you are guaranteed dungeon tokens for running the dungeon. There is no random chance that you will be rewarded something else besides a dungeon token. The reward will always be a dungeon token, no matter what.

And baseball cards? Really? You buy a pack of baseball cards and you get…. baseball cards. You paid for exactly what was labeled. If you bought a pack of baseball cards and you got a bullet instead, then it would be comparable. But you don’t. You are guaranteed baseball cards and only baseball cards. There is no basketball cards or football cards randomly put in there. Your chance is 100% that you will get baseball cards.

RNG chests are completely different. It’s a pure greed tactic to make people fork over tons of money for a chance at something that has a rare chance of dropping. Instead of selling something to you straight up so you are guaranteed to get what you want, they make you play the RNG game instead. It’s greed at it’s purest form. They don’t care about the players and what they want. They only care about filling their pockets with our money.

Sorry but this is not the Anet I remember. They used to care about their players, but obviously greed got to them instead.

SpyderArachnid.5619:

…

RNG chests are completely different. It’s a pure greed tactic to make people fork over tons of money for a chance at something that has a rare chance of dropping. Instead of selling something to you straight up so you are guaranteed to get what you want, they make you play the RNG game instead. It’s greed at it’s purest form. They don’t care about the players and what they want. They only care about filling their pockets with our money.

Sorry but this is not the Anet I remember. They used to care about their players, but obviously greed got to them instead.

I posted this in another thread, but will do so again here…

I’d love to see you, or any other likeminded individual, offer an acceptable, reasonable alternative revenue stream for ANet to substitute for removing the BL chests.

I’ve yet to see a single such proposition backed up with any type of financial analysis. Would love to see such a post. (And don’t just come back with "make the items direct purchases. Gotta offer more than that… A little thought, and basic math invalidates that kind of thought. At the very least you’d have to show some kind of pricing methodology for it to be a viable consideration).

Is it that you don’t realize the implications of taking away a viable revue stream from ANet? Or is that you just do care about the consequences?

Erm ok, a company is forced to disguise prices. With that logic you can justify anything. The company (not A-Net but any company) just HAD to do it not to go bankrupt. Where will you draw a line in general then?

Mourningcry.9428:

SpyderArachnid.5619:

…

RNG chests are completely different. It’s a pure greed tactic to make people fork over tons of money for a chance at something that has a rare chance of dropping. Instead of selling something to you straight up so you are guaranteed to get what you want, they make you play the RNG game instead. It’s greed at it’s purest form. They don’t care about the players and what they want. They only care about filling their pockets with our money.

Sorry but this is not the Anet I remember. They used to care about their players, but obviously greed got to them instead.

I posted this in another thread, but will do so again here…

I’d love to see you, or any other likeminded individual, offer an acceptable, reasonable alternative revenue stream for ANet to substitute for removing the BL chests.

I’ve yet to see a single such proposition backed up with any type of financial analysis. Would love to see such a post. (And don’t just come back with "make the items direct purchases. Gotta offer more than that… A little thought, and basic math invalidates that kind of thought. At the very least you’d have to show some kind of pricing methodology for it to be a viable consideration).

Is it that you don’t realize the implications of taking away a viable revue stream from ANet? Or is that you just do care about the consequences?

Seeing as GW1 is still alive and kicking to this day, and they never had these RNG chests in the cash shop, I’m pretty sure RNG chests are not what is keeping GW2 alive.

There was never any RNG chests in GW1. Yet they did just fine with no monthly fee and sold costumes directly to you without any RNG in the cash shop.

And seeing as their quarterly report just recently said that the game is still growing and people are still joining the game, it’s obvious they are still making money off box sales. And from all the complaints on the forums and people saying they will buy these items if Anet sells them straight up instead of sticking them in RNG chests, I’m sure they won’t have any issues there.

The RNG boxes are not the only thing funding GW2. And I’m pretty sure they are not Anet’s main source of income from this game either. They are just not needed when you can sell the items straight up and have happier players who are willing to buy these items.

People are actually quitting this game because of all the RNG in this game. So it would be safe to assume that if the RNG boxes were removed and the items were sold straight up instead, players would be happier to have one less RNG to deal with. Especially when that RNG costs real money. Not only would they be happier, but they would stick around and when players stick around and see items being sold in the store instead of in RNG boxes, they are more likely to spend money.

The RNG boxes are just not needed. They are pure greed is all. There is no getting around that. Making people have to spin the wheel for items they paid for, instead of buying them straight up, is just a cheap money making scam. That’s it.

Not buying chests. I’d much rather pay a premium for skins I like, than do cheap gambles. Because of this nonsense I’m NOT spending cash at the moment. How’s that for a business model …

There’s something rotten in the gem store.

SpyderArachnid.5619:

Seeing as GW1 is still alive and kicking to this day, and they never had these RNG chests in the cash shop, I’m pretty sure RNG chests are not what is keeping GW2 alive.

There was never any RNG chests in GW1. Yet they did just fine with no monthly fee and sold costumes directly to you without any RNG in the cash shop.

And seeing as their quarterly report just recently said that the game is still growing and people are still joining the game, it’s obvious they are still making money off box sales. And from all the complaints on the forums and people saying they will buy these items if Anet sells them straight up instead of sticking them in RNG chests, I’m sure they won’t have any issues there.

The RNG boxes are not the only thing funding GW2. And I’m pretty sure they are not Anet’s main source of income from this game either. They are just not needed when you can sell the items straight up and have happier players who are willing to buy these items.

People are actually quitting this game because of all the RNG in this game. So it would be safe to assume that if the RNG boxes were removed and the items were sold straight up instead, players would be happier to have one less RNG to deal with. Especially when that RNG costs real money. Not only would they be happier, but they would stick around and when players stick around and see items being sold in the store instead of in RNG boxes, they are more likely to spend money.

The RNG boxes are just not needed. They are pure greed is all. There is no getting around that. Making people have to spin the wheel for items they paid for, instead of buying them straight up, is just a cheap money making scam. That’s it.

There’s a difference between sustainability and profitability. GW1 is covering it’s costs (although if this is being supplimented elsewhere is unknown to me), however, I think it’s fair to say GW1 is not sustaining the same player base and development costs as GW2.

If you want to just cut development now, sure, cut revenue to a sustainable level, and call it a day. However, if you want to see continued development and expansion, then profitability is a serious consideration.

Without offering a viable revenue alternative, you’re asking ANet to cut profits. How is this a rational proposition to consider? Simply assuming that catering to one segment of the player base (that isn’t a revenue generating source) will lead to overall revenue growth is a stretch, no?

Simply offering them straight up, without some analysis of what prices would need to be set in order equal the same level of profit is far too assumptive. How many times greater would the price of one item need to be to equal the profits of the current method? 10x, 100x, 1000x? Who’s to say that price point would be too prohibitive to some, and lead to an drastic cut to revenue? Just try some back of the napkin calcs to see how that would works out.

I’m not at all saying the current method is the optimal method from the player’s perspective. But it is a considerable source of revenue for ANet, and in turn does benefit the player base through continued sustainability and development.

But we are talking from a players perspective. If a company (not only A-Net, any) is offering you a deal you think is pretty foul will you alway say. “oh that poor guys have to make revenue, I’ll gladly pay even if this deal is a rip off”?

Is disguising prices a proper business method in your opinion in general?

I can very well understand what is behind form their perspective but that doesn’t mean that I have to agree with it at all from my consumers perspective and that I have to justify it because I like the game in general. Let’s say we wouldn’t like the game or they wouldn’t develop it any further. Would you still think it’s a proper sales-method?

I would rather pay like 800 gems per weapons than buy the RNG chests, but I really really really like the weapon skins and this seems the only way to obtain them so I will keep pouring in my gold till the event stops.

I wish they just made a dungeon and made us farm that for tokens, like the regular ones. Or just 800 gems for a single weapon and maybe 1000 for a 2 handed weapon.
Just so sad about the next event being an RNG chase again

I will be buying some, and will be in the future as well.

Fact is people still buy these kitten rng boxes and you would have thought they learned from the previous BLC magic boxes. These kind of additions should be boycotted not accepted. And to think we still dont know the odds on these tickets and it was asked on the forums for over a month. Great customer service guys kudos.

I would. But since I only need the minies, I’ll just buy them off the TP.

I also recommend to start whining after you know some droprates. Buy a 10 pack, if you get no tickets, then start to whine.

Btw: you get +200% MF guys… Drops should significally increase.

I only bought stuff at 0 gems at the gem store so far… and playing since release(since last stress test before release to be correct). There were at least 2 times town clothes hat items at 0 gems in the story.

Other stuff I don’t need to pay gems or convert gold(I’m not farming much gold cause I play only for fun and to to achievements).

Mourningcry.9428:

SpyderArachnid.5619:

Seeing as GW1 is still alive and kicking to this day, and they never had these RNG chests in the cash shop, I’m pretty sure RNG chests are not what is keeping GW2 alive.

There was never any RNG chests in GW1. Yet they did just fine with no monthly fee and sold costumes directly to you without any RNG in the cash shop.

And seeing as their quarterly report just recently said that the game is still growing and people are still joining the game, it’s obvious they are still making money off box sales. And from all the complaints on the forums and people saying they will buy these items if Anet sells them straight up instead of sticking them in RNG chests, I’m sure they won’t have any issues there.

The RNG boxes are not the only thing funding GW2. And I’m pretty sure they are not Anet’s main source of income from this game either. They are just not needed when you can sell the items straight up and have happier players who are willing to buy these items.

People are actually quitting this game because of all the RNG in this game. So it would be safe to assume that if the RNG boxes were removed and the items were sold straight up instead, players would be happier to have one less RNG to deal with. Especially when that RNG costs real money. Not only would they be happier, but they would stick around and when players stick around and see items being sold in the store instead of in RNG boxes, they are more likely to spend money.

The RNG boxes are just not needed. They are pure greed is all. There is no getting around that. Making people have to spin the wheel for items they paid for, instead of buying them straight up, is just a cheap money making scam. That’s it.

There’s a difference between sustainability and profitability. GW1 is covering it’s costs (although if this is being supplimented elsewhere is unknown to me), however, I think it’s fair to say GW1 is not sustaining the same player base and development costs as GW2.

If you want to just cut development now, sure, cut revenue to a sustainable level, and call it a day. However, if you want to see continued development and expansion, then profitability is a serious consideration.

Without offering a viable revenue alternative, you’re asking ANet to cut profits. How is this a rational proposition to consider? Simply assuming that catering to one segment of the player base (that isn’t a revenue generating source) will lead to overall revenue growth is a stretch, no?

Simply offering them straight up, without some analysis of what prices would need to be set in order equal the same level of profit is far too assumptive. How many times greater would the price of one item need to be to equal the profits of the current method? 10x, 100x, 1000x? Who’s to say that price point would be too prohibitive to some, and lead to an drastic cut to revenue? Just try some back of the napkin calcs to see how that would works out.

I’m not at all saying the current method is the optimal method from the player’s perspective. But it is a considerable source of revenue for ANet, and in turn does benefit the player base through continued sustainability and development.

They did just fine with Wintersday though.

Instead of tossing weapon skins in an RNG box for 150 gems, they sold weapon skins for 500 gems each straight up. Same thing with the minis. 350 gems each for the minis straight up.

Players were so excited they could finally buy stuff that they wanted instead of having to buy RNG boxes for a chance at what they wanted. They started buying up the new skins right away.

Everytime Anet introduces a new RNG box, people complain and protest it. And it’s not a small group of two or three, it’s a lot of players who do this. Now just think. If they were offering items straight up instead of RNG boxes, imagine how happy all those “haters” would be and would actually spend money. With the RNG boxes, those people are refusing to buy the boxes. That’s a missed opportunity for more revenue. But if those items were introduced as stand alone in the gem store, those people would easily buy them. That is money from players who refused to buy anything before, because of RNG boxes.

(cont.)

Thing is, they are making 150 gems off one RNG box. If a players buys an RNG box hoping for a weapon skin, and doesn’t get it, they are likely to go two ways. Either try again, or never spend another dime. After a few more tries, they will go only one way. That RNG box will end up leading that player to never spend another dime. Which is a loss for Anet as that player will never buy anything again. Anet lost a paying customer because of an RNG box.

Now if that weapon skin was on the gem store, they would make 500 gems off that player (or more depending on how many weapon skins they needed). And that player would be happy that they got exactly what they wanted. They are not frustrated by RNG and they know their money went to something they wanted. They are likely now to buy from the store again when new weapon skins are introduced, as long as they are not RNG and they can buy them straight up like before. Anet has now made a long time customer that will be willing to buy more stuff when it is introduced.

The RNG boxes are actually making players not want to spend money. It’s to the point of players protesting it. Every time these boxes are introduced, it is nothing but complaints. I’m sorry, but this does not scream great idea for revenue. In the long run, this is going to cause more harm than good. Players will never spend money again because of being scammed by these RNG boxes, and players will lose faith in the company seeing all they care about is greed, and players will leave the game because of this constant RNG greed they are doing.

I agree with SpyderArachnid all the way. Now I hope enough employees of Arenanet will actually get to see this and the anti RNG revolution can break through! :P
Sick of being kitten out of luck but paying myself silly for something I want. Box after box after box I get nothing. That doesn’t really make you feel good :P Not like we can sell the skins when we get them anyway! So it’s a complete loss UNLESS you want the skin badly.

RNG – Without me!

I did that mistake during Wintersday to get Quaggan. Never again.

I decided a long time ago that I would not buy any item that involved RNG. The odds are too heavily stacked against you. I do spend money at the Gemstore fairly regularly, though($20 this month alone…). But only when I know what I’m getting.

If people stopped buying these in huge quantities(see all of the “I bought 50/100/200 keys/boxes and didn’t get what I wanted!!!” threads), Anet wouldn’t sell them. They know that most of the players are opposed to it, but the whales make it so profitable that they can’t not do it.

I wanted some of the fused skins but after Halloween I refused to touch any of this stuff. It really irked me during Christmas when the only way to get the COOLEST QUAGGAN MINI EVER I had to gamble. I couldn’t just buy it like the Halloween mini’s… nope! Then fused came and now this. Refuse to buy any of it and I make sure anyone I know is talked out of it. Already talked 5 friends out of even trying because it needs to be boycotted so we can get some real options.

Oh.. and to all those debating with those in support of this for the reason that the company needs to make money. Just stop talking to them because anyone that tries to sugar coat something like is already a lost cause. They are apart of the generation that believes corporations can do no wrong and were raised by corporations to think that. That person is a sheeple.

Oh.. and to all those debating with those in support of this for the reason that the company needs to make money. Just stop talking to them because anyone that tries to sugar coat something like is already a lost cause. They are apart of the generation that believes corporations can do no wrong and were raised by corporations to think that. That person is a sheeple.They’ve long since forgotten that things like this are a service industry meaning that the company is here for you. Not the other way around! They are here to provide you with a good experience in viable ways that do not cheat you. You are not here for them! They are here for you! When a bad call is made you voice your opinion in a polite way and then speak with your dollar. The sheeple have long been to brainwashed into fanboys and other such things to get this concept.

Oh.. and to all those debating with those in support of this for the reason that the company needs to make money. Just stop talking to them because anyone that tries to sugar coat something like is already a lost cause. They are apart of the generation that believes corporations can do no wrong and were raised by corporations to think that. That person is a sheeple.They’ve long since forgotten that things like this are a service industry meaning that the company is here for you. Not the other way around! They are here to provide you with a good experience in viable ways that do not cheat you. You are not here for them! They are here for you! When a bad call is made you voice your opinion in a polite way and then speak with your dollar. The sheeple have long been to brainwashed into fanboys and other such things to get this concept.So in short? I won’t even trade gold for gems for even one stinking chest because those gems came from a player that did pay money for them. So even that is contributing to the problem. Not one of these chests will ever cross my hands unless it is a random drop. However I won’t farm for them because the rate is so low you’d still be better off going to CoF and trading gold for gems. Which once again.. part of the problem.

Vayne.8563:

While in the past I’ve bought black lion keys, I’ve made the personal decision not to buy keys or chests, because I dislike the cash for RNG thing.

I’m not calling for a boycott, but I am choosing to express my personal displeasure.

Shame too. I really like the new skins..but not enough to play the RNG game for them. Maybe I’ll get one from a chest drop.

I have no problems with the Cash for RNG thing. Anet has to make money somehow but I blew my “gem” budget on trying to get Fused skin (I have one and wish I had more but meh!) + lion cub. So no consortium chests for me! But I don’t care because I am not into the new nightmare skins. Waaaaaayyyyy too creepy for me!

I will never pay for a ‘chance’ at anything in an MMO. I say put new items in as drops, or put them in the store as direct purchases, or just don’t put them in the game at all.

I wrote a song about it, want to hear it, here it goes:

Won’t get no money from me!
For kitten RNG!
Cut out all of this trash!
Or you won’t get no cash!

Thank you, thank you very much.

I dislike RNG, i dislike the chests/keys mechanic and never bought them – but lets be clear.

1) Majority of things in the chests can be acquired another way – if you want them, you can.
2) You can buy chests without paying any real money, by exchanging gold.
3) Arenanet probably does not care about YOU not buying chests or any normal players. Seeing as they still add MORE chests, this mechanic seems to be profitable, and i for one know there are many rich players that while you dont buy a single one – would buy hundreds, just because its convenient: people are different. And you cant it Pay2Win wither – because you know yourself how little the chances to “win” are and how big is the “pay” part.

TLDR:
Just ignore the chests. Accept that if you dont like this mechanic, maybe its not designed for YOU. They bring profit to Anet and thats why they are there. Tweaking them for you to like them and possible buy one, would not necessary mean higher profits for them.

Not me. I was glad to buy the molten pick and the rox/braham weapons, even the dance book since i know what i am getting for X amount of money. RNG never again. The skins are just not worth it.

Well, if it was for “rich” people only, they could just give those items an insanely high price. But as it comes they do not only want the money of those who can and want to spend an insane amount of money but also that of those who think they can win the lottery as well. That’s what I don’t like about those items.

It’s RNG.

There’s no reason why I would want to buy this.

Had 1200 gems….1200 gem price for 10…shouldn’t have done that. Ended up with 3-4g worth of karka shells, passi flowers and passion fruits. God kitten why did I do that…
Now I’ll be farming Southsun for the rest of its duration until I get a crate with a skin in it. (gotten 2 so far)

Spent 20€ on keys trying to get a fused skin. Got nothing.
Never bying any rng stuff from the store.

I would gladly buy any other kind of “shown” stuff tho. really looking forward the new armor and got bhrams shield and mace a swell.

Tachenon.5270:

I will never pay for a ‘chance’ at anything in an MMO. I say put new items in as drops, or put them in the store as direct purchases, or just don’t put them in the game at all.

I wrote a song about it, want to hear it, here it goes:

Won’t get no money from me!
For kitten RNG!
Cut out all of this trash!
Or you won’t get no cash!

Thank you, thank you very much.

Standing ovation! Btw the free backs are totally awesome so at least there’s that (silver lining).

I managed to get a fused skin but took my entire bank and collections to do so – no RNG gambling for me for the next 6 months it takes to rebuild those stocks.

Bevian.8973:

I managed to get a fused skin but took my entire bank and collections to do so – no RNG gambling for me for the next 6 months it takes to rebuild those stocks.

yeah? it did? now think only that some guys got it randomly without effort at the first try.

The only way it is gambling is if your direct ROI is actual real world currency. In this case it is virtual items in a video game.

I support the RNG boxes, if the skins that people wanted were added to the gem store everyone would have the same skin and that skin wouldn’t be as prestigious as it would be if it were made exclusively for RNG boxes.

Primetime.5864:

The only way it is gambling is if your direct ROI is actual real world currency. In this case it is virtual items in a video game.

I support the RNG boxes, if the skins that people wanted were added to the gem store everyone would have the same skin and that skin wouldn’t be as prestigious as it would be if it were made exclusively for RNG boxes.

So you’re saying you gambled for a skin and got one? Well, it’s not my cup of tea, but congrats. It seems you folks fuel the RNG profit margin :p nevertheless, I do appreciate anyone willing to donate to anet. It’s an expenditure for great content.

Primetime.5864:

I support the RNG boxes, if the skins that people wanted were added to the gem store everyone would have the same skin and that skin wouldn’t be as prestigious as it would be if it were made exclusively for RNG boxes.

Hmm, well, I personally don’t care about the perceived prestigiousness of any skin or item in any MMO.

By way of illustration, if I could have had a Tier 5 Constitution Class Cruiser in STO I would not have cared one bit if everyone else in the game had one, too. I just wanted one for myself. There are no skins or items in GW2 that I want as much as I wanted a T5 Connie, but if there were I would still not care if every other player had them.

Chopps.5047:

Primetime.5864:

The only way it is gambling is if your direct ROI is actual real world currency. In this case it is virtual items in a video game.

I support the RNG boxes, if the skins that people wanted were added to the gem store everyone would have the same skin and that skin wouldn’t be as prestigious as it would be if it were made exclusively for RNG boxes.

So you’re saying you gambled for a skin and got one? Well, it’s not my cup of tea, but congrats. It seems you folks fuel the RNG profit margin :p nevertheless, I do appreciate anyone willing to donate to anet. It’s an expenditure for great content.

Thanks for the reply, I actually haven’t bought a box and I don’t plan on it. So “folks” like me will continue playing the game and enjoying it.

Tachenon.5270:

Primetime.5864:

I support the RNG boxes, if the skins that people wanted were added to the gem store everyone would have the same skin and that skin wouldn’t be as prestigious as it would be if it were made exclusively for RNG boxes.

Hmm, well, I personally don’t care about the perceived prestigiousness of any skin or item in any MMO.

By way of illustration, if I could have had a Tier 5 Constitution Class Cruiser in STO I would not have cared one bit if everyone else in the game had one, too. I just wanted one for myself. There are no skins or items in GW2 that I want as much as I wanted a T5 Connie, but if there were I would still not care if every other player had them.

I totally agree. Fun fact: I see less Rox sets than fused weapons every day. What’s rare again? RNG items? Riiiiiight.

Tachenon.5270:

Primetime.5864:

I support the RNG boxes, if the skins that people wanted were added to the gem store everyone would have the same skin and that skin wouldn’t be as prestigious as it would be if it were made exclusively for RNG boxes.

Hmm, well, I personally don’t care about the perceived prestigiousness of any skin or item in any MMO.

By way of illustration, if I could have had a Tier 5 Constitution Class Cruiser in STO I would not have cared one bit if everyone else in the game had one, too. I just wanted one for myself. There are no skins or items in GW2 that I want as much as I wanted a T5 Connie, but if there were I would still not care if every other player had them.

I am with you on that and there are many players that feel the same as you, although my personal preference is knowing that I have something that not every other player may have.

I am a fan of cosmetic diversity and obviously if everyone had the same gear in their inventory that doesn’t mean everyone would wear that gear or even look remotely the same. And I don’t even play enough to have anything unique to many players, but that’s just how I feel on the subject.

I bought one have to admit…but no more, hate RNG.

Just some quick, very basic, off the cuff calcs to kind of paint the picture of what some of you are asking for.
What’s the value of one of these weapon skins? Let’s say there are 1million players. Of those, some (like so many here) won’t buy gems (they’ll convert gold, or abstain), and there are others that simply don’t want them. So, let’s say, half of those players are willing to make a single, one time purchase.

500,000 * $10 = $5,000,000 = 400,000,000 gems

At 125gems/key, they get 6 tries.

500,000 * 6 = 3,000,000 tries

Let’s be generous and set the drop rate for a skin @ 1%

3,000,000 * 1% = 30,000 weapons skins dropped

400,000,000 / 30,000 = 13,333 gems is the value of 1 skin

I would even go so far as to say these are very generous assumptions (only one gem purchase per player and a 1% drop rate) Feel free to tweak it as you like, but you’ll get the idea.

Now, you want to propose to offer them up for 800 gems. Ok. Well, 800 gems is pretty cheap. I would venture that most players would just as well convert gold to gems and get them that way.

But then, as the rate becomes less favorable,some players are going to start complaining about that (happens every time). So, now, you’ve just shifted discontent from the RNG haters, to the exchange rate haters. And they’re distaste for purchasing gems for cash is arguably just as valid as the RNG haters distaste.

So, again. Instead of complaining, why don’t one of you malcontents offer up an alternative with some thought behind it.

Mourningcry.9428:

Just some quick, very basic, off the cuff calcs to kind of paint the picture of what some of you are asking for.
What’s the value of one of these weapon skins? Let’s say there are 1million players. Of those, some (like so many here) won’t buy gems (they’ll convert gold, or abstain), and there are others that simply don’t want them. So, let’s say, half of those players are willing to make a single, one time purchase.

500,000 * $10 = $5,000,000 = 400,000,000 gems

At 125gems/key, they get 6 tries.

500,000 * 6 = 3,000,000 tries

Let’s be generous and set the drop rate for a skin @ 1%

3,000,000 * 1% = 30,000 weapons skins dropped

400,000,000 / 30,000 = 13,333 gems is the value of 1 skin

I would even go so far as to say these are very generous assumptions (only one gem purchase per player and a 1% drop rate) Feel free to tweak it as you like, but you’ll get the idea.

Now, you want to propose to offer them up for 800 gems. Ok. Well, 800 gems is pretty cheap. I would venture that most players would just as well convert gold to gems and get them that way.

But then, as the rate becomes less favorable,some players are going to start complaining about that (happens every time). So, now, you’ve just shifted discontent from the RNG haters, to the exchange rate haters. And they’re distaste for purchasing gems for cash is arguably just as valid as the RNG haters distaste.

So, again. Instead of complaining, why don’t one of you malcontents offer up an alternative with some thought behind it.

You must be an engineer—great display of estimation skill. Here’s an alternative : make more skins and sell them (non-rng) for less per unit but make more money via volume. Of course, that takes more effort than hiding the odds from people who are not as gifted as yourself at estimation. RNG boxes play to the LCD <— there’s my math.

So again you are saying disguising prices (nothing else is done here) is ok because it generates revenue and a customer has no right to complain because well a company has to make money no matter in which way? That they should not try to treat their customers fairly? That it does not matter which image a way to sell items create? That we should buy and shut up?

I can only tell you what that kind of businessmodel is doing to my buying behaviour. It is totaly putting me off from buying any gems. I really was right about to buy gems for those SAB-Minis when the colour-packs came out. Well no thanks. I still feel tempted to buy that shortbowskin from F&F but again I don’t feel like buying gems because if they think they can make more money of “gambling” instead of giving clear prices then they clearly don’t need my money, not even for the rest of the stuff they are selling.

Mourningcry.9428:

Just some quick, very basic, off the cuff calcs to kind of paint the picture of what some of you are asking for.
What’s the value of one of these weapon skins? Let’s say there are 1million players. Of those, some (like so many here) won’t buy gems (they’ll convert gold, or abstain), and there are others that simply don’t want them. So, let’s say, half of those players are willing to make a single, one time purchase.

500,000 * $10 = $5,000,000 = 400,000,000 gems

At 125gems/key, they get 6 tries.

500,000 * 6 = 3,000,000 tries

Let’s be generous and set the drop rate for a skin @ 1%

3,000,000 * 1% = 30,000 weapons skins dropped

400,000,000 / 30,000 = 13,333 gems is the value of 1 skin

I would even go so far as to say these are very generous assumptions (only one gem purchase per player and a 1% drop rate) Feel free to tweak it as you like, but you’ll get the idea.

Now, you want to propose to offer them up for 800 gems. Ok. Well, 800 gems is pretty cheap. I would venture that most players would just as well convert gold to gems and get them that way.

But then, as the rate becomes less favorable,some players are going to start complaining about that (happens every time). So, now, you’ve just shifted discontent from the RNG haters, to the exchange rate haters. And they’re distaste for purchasing gems for cash is arguably just as valid as the RNG haters distaste.

So, again. Instead of complaining, why don’t one of you malcontents offer up an alternative with some thought behind it.

You must be an engineer—great display of estimation skill. Here’s an alternative : make more skins and sell them (non-rng) for less per unit but make more money via volume. Of course, that takes more effort than hiding the odds from people who are not as gifted as yourself at estimation. RNG boxes play to the LCD <— there’s my math.

Btw, again, good dimensional analysis there. 13k gems/skin. Based on the unbreakable choir bell research, I would estimate a drop rate of 0.004% (1 in 25,000)—with an accelerated rate at the start of the event to make the odds appear better than they really are over the course pf the week. This puts us well above 100k gems/skin. Thoughts?

Pirlipat.2479:

So again you are saying disguising prices (nothing else is done here) is ok because it generates revenue and a customer has no right to complain because well a company has to make money no matter in which way? That they should not try to treat their customers fairly? That it does not matter which image a way to sell items create? That we should buy and shut up?

I never said it was ok. In fact, I have even said many times that the current method is not optimal for the player.

That said, I don’t have an alternative to offer. Given the choice between the current method of revenue, and no revenue, I have to side with revenue.

Instead of complaining, if it’s so easy, and Anet shoukitten it, why don’t one of you propose a viable alternative. Still yet to see one.

Mourningcry.9428:

Pirlipat.2479:

So again you are saying disguising prices (nothing else is done here) is ok because it generates revenue and a customer has no right to complain because well a company has to make money no matter in which way? That they should not try to treat their customers fairly? That it does not matter which image a way to sell items create? That we should buy and shut up?

I never said it was ok. In fact, I have even said many times that the current method is not optimal for the player.

That said, I don’t have an alternative to offer. Given the choice between the current method of revenue, and no revenue, I have to side with revenue.

Instead of complaining, if it’s so easy, and Anet shoukitten it, why don’t one of you propose a viable alternative. Still yet to see one.

There are examples of cash shop games without RNG, no? Our community loves to gamble (don’t argue about the semantics…raffle, is that better?) so as long as that’s true, we will have RNG boxes. The bottomline matters, sir, you are correct.

I’ve refused to buy keys or chests ever since the Halloween event. The only thing “random” I’ve spent gems on since then has been buff booster packs because I can use/want the majority of the buff tokens in them, instead of being stuck getting an overwhelming chance of trash drops that I (and hardly anyone else) wants and thus can’t sell, or even worse, is auto bound to me so even if I WAS willing to sell it, I can’t.

It’s not a price problem. It’s a service problem.

I’m not buying a chest and I am not going to either.

Chopps.5047:

You must be an engineer—great display of estimation skill. Here’s an alternative : make more skins and sell them (non-rng) for less per unit but make more money via volume. Of course, that takes more effort than hiding the odds from people who are not as gifted as yourself at estimation. RNG boxes play to the LCD <— there’s my math.

Thanks

As I mentioned above, the problem with offering cheaper purchases is that players can simply use gold to convert to gems, and negating any revenue what so ever to ANet. And then you get the cascading issues there (unfavorable exchange rate, etc.). The number of avaialable items isn’t so much the issue. Rather, it’s the price of the items due explcitily to the gold to gem mechanism.

Chopps.5047:

Btw, again, good dimensional analysis there. 13k gems/skin. Based on the unbreakable choir bell research, I would estimate a drop rate of 0.004% (1 in 25,000)—with an accelerated rate at the start of the event to make the odds appear better than they really are over the course pf the week. This puts us well above 100k gems/skin. Thoughts?

Would agree that drop rate is pretty representative for the Choir Bell. Given that, and the unique attributes and attractiveness to some players, it’s amazing that it’s currently only 68 on the TP going for ~48G each (compared to a SAB skins going for 10-75% of that) – it’s a steal. Simply put, 48G is a tiny fraction of the value of what it argueably would have taken to acquire one, yet, there they are. But this really just goes to show there’s a ceiling for just how much the market will value an item regardless of rarity.

So, that kind of dovetails back into the individual pricing problem. What’s the least you can charge for one of those items without risking losing too much revenue to gold to gem conversion, while at the same time, making it high enough to not exceed the market’s valuation of that item. I dunno.

Mourningcry.9428:

As I mentioned above, the problem with offering cheaper purchases is that players can simply use gold to convert to gems, and negating any revenue what so ever to ANet. And then you get the cascading issues there (unfavorable exchange rate, etc.). The number of avaialable items isn’t so much the issue. Rather, it’s the price of the items due explcitily to the gold to gem mechanism.

No. This is not possible. Anet does not throw gems into the system. Only players do. If players do not buy gems, prices will go up as we have seen since launch. The result is that gem price will only go up until players can’t afford them anymore, at which point they will have to buy gems or miss out.

Higher gem to gold price also means that there will be players converting the opposite way of course. Anet will not miss out.

Made 36g farming skelk on southsun (no ticket), decided to buy gems and buy 10 more crates, still no ticket. I hate you all. I especially hate the troll that is Denravi commander Battlecamp.

ENOUGH WITH THE RNG!!!!!!