Guild Wars 2

I’ve been noticing a lot of people saying ‘player this’ and ‘player that’ in this thread and I would just like to say that I only use MF gear in open world pve with guild parties, I do not wear it in any real content as people keep claiming >:(

Player Character.9467:

I’ve been noticing a lot of people saying ‘player this’ and ‘player that’ in this thread and I would just like to say that I only use MF gear in open world pve with guild parties, I do not wear it in any real content as people keep claiming >:(

ROFL.
I see what you did there.

The best MF fix:

Allow players to purchase a permanent MF buff with skill points (1-5SP per 1% permanent boost), and lower the cap on max % magic find to 150-200%. Unaffected by this cap: food/boosts/infusions.

For those that spent a ton on ascended MF gear, new recipes would be introduced to the Mystic Forge to transmute ascended gear with MF to ascended gear with other stat combos (i.e. . Yakkington’s Ring + 5ectos + 10powerful bloods = Ring of Red Death)

There, MF fixed.

Anyone who thinks that MF does not hurt the group for selfish gains, is most likely lying, and probably hopes the system goes unchecked so they can continue to leech.

Power, Prec, Tough, Vit… all other stats help the party in some way.
-Power/Condi/Prec add more DPS, meaning mobs die faster.
-Tough/Vit extend your own survival, less time your party needs to spend picking you up and less danger they have to put themselves in to do so
-Healing/Boon+ is obvious

Magic find leeches one of these stats and instead gives you bonus loot. So now you’re down roughly 1000 power. Thats a big chunk of missing DPS that the rest of the party must pick up the slack for. Or 1000 toughness, now you’re going to get KO’d easy, and someone will have to spend time and take a risk to help you.

“But I’m so good that I do better in MF than most players without it!”
First of all BS. No you’re not. Get over it.
Secondly, even if that were true, you’re still performing less than your best. However good you are doing in MF gear, you could be doing even better with non-MF gear. You are underperforming, willfully, for personal gain.

Reposting for relevance: http://i.imgur.com/8w7birP.png

Tony.6028:

Reposting for relevance: http://i.imgur.com/8w7birP.png

It’s in the OP tony, and cheers for making that

roamzero.9486:

The best MF fix:

Allow players to purchase a permanent MF buff with skill points (1-5SP per 1% permanent boost), and lower the cap on max % magic find to 150-200%. Unaffected by this cap: food/boosts/infusions.

For those that spent a ton on ascended MF gear, new recipes would be introduced to the Mystic Forge to transmute ascended gear with MF to ascended gear with other stat combos (i.e. . Yakkington’s Ring + 5ectos + 10powerful bloods = Ring of Red Death)

There, MF fixed.

I like this. Especially the recipies. Though the recipies would have to be free and limited for ceratin amount per character so people wouldn´t star stacking MF gear after announcement.

Dand.8231:

Anyone who thinks that MF does not hurt the group for selfish gains, is most likely lying, and probably hopes the system goes unchecked so they can continue to leech.

Power, Prec, Tough, Vit… all other stats help the party in some way.
-Power/Condi/Prec add more DPS, meaning mobs die faster.
-Tough/Vit extend your own survival, less time your party needs to spend picking you up and less danger they have to put themselves in to do so
-Healing/Boon+ is obvious

Magic find leeches one of these stats and instead gives you bonus loot. So now you’re down roughly 1000 power. Thats a big chunk of missing DPS that the rest of the party must pick up the slack for. Or 1000 toughness, now you’re going to get KO’d easy, and someone will have to spend time and take a risk to help you.

“But I’m so good that I do better in MF than most players without it!”
First of all BS. No you’re not. Get over it.
Secondly, even if that were true, you’re still performing less than your best. However good you are doing in MF gear, you could be doing even better with non-MF gear. You are underperforming, willfully, for personal gain.

We didn´t want to go down the selfish path again so please keep it suggestions only.

Make MF an inherent stat based off the quality of the gear you are wearing, make MF split among the group, or both.

Spencer.1386:

Make MF an inherent stat based off the quality of the gear you are wearing, make MF split among the group, or both.

I just want something better then what we have now. An inherent stat is a good idea though.

I agree it’s actually a problem even for those of us who solo most things. It weakens some classes who aren’t properly balanced in PVE so it makes it impossible to farm properly with enough time to gain any kind of benefit.

If we go into the anti-farming rewards system, it will still harm the solo players as chests won’t be affected by the mf, so we really shouldn’t have a mf until they make it possible to attach mf runes or something to armor that already exists like putting it on all of the crafted gear and all of the karma gear.

It also causes problems for weapons because instead of sigils that help some classes do extra damage, there’s instead a sigil for luck.

So there’s alot to work on it’s not a simple thing to fix because they also have to watch for exploits.

I think they definitely need to reign in the size of the requirement too requiring 200-300% just to get something to drop is quite crazy as well. We need a better system alround for rewards I hope they fixit soon with a simple yet effective system for rewards that cut out the requirement of having a weak gear set for any purpose. It doesn’t even work in open world environments much less the dungeons.

My idea (which I’m not sure if anyone has mentioned, as I have not read through the entire thread) is basically:

1: If you are in a party, add up everyone’s magic find %.
2: Divide by the number of people in the party.
3. Disregard current personal magic find stats for the party members.
4: The new total from the group magic find is now applied to everyone in the party, until they leave party, upon which they regain their personal magic find stat.

Problem solved, and balanced so you don’t get obscene numbers.

I would love to have group wide magic find. I see nothing wrong with that at all. I think MF in itself is a useless feature of this game, at least for me anyway because I rarely see any substantial gains even when I was running the 300% and more in the Southsun events recently. In fact half the time I got worse loot until I mapped out and got rid of all my MF entirely. But I’m getting off track here. If we are going to be stuck with this stat, it needs to be party wide, plain and simple. There could be some formula that does an average or something similar of everyone’s MF in the party if more than 1 person is running it, or do the true MF value if only 1 person is running it. This prevents a team from stacking all MF and getting insane values but allows 1 person to run good MF to benefit the team without everyone in the team running sub-par gear.

IceBlink.4317:

My idea (which I’m not sure if anyone has mentioned, as I have not read through the entire thread) is basically:

1: If you are in a party, add up everyone’s magic find %.
2: Divide by the number of people in the party.
3. Disregard current personal magic find stats for the party members.
4: The new total from the group magic find is now applied to everyone in the party, until they leave party, upon which they regain their personal magic find stat.

Problem solved, and balanced so you don’t get obscene numbers.

Yeah, more than a few of us have suggested this. Its a good idea.

Does noone see the irony in sharing/averaging MF among the party? The OP stated that MFer are statisticaly weaker becasue they take MF for personal gain rather than taking combat suitable stats, which is true. And at the same time he (and others) stated that they don´t want to run with these people because they handicap themselves and that the entire party have to work up the loss. That creates biases against MFers. When you introduce sharing/averaging MF system the tables will turn and MF will start posting that they do not want to run with noneMFers because they lower MF for them.

I still believe that everyone should be responsible for his/her own MF. Such person shouldn´t drag the party down because of weaker combat stats but it also should be something that not everyone has (not for free anyway). MF should be traded in for something. Like gold or skill points as suggested. Either as permanent or temporary buff. And in case of permanent buff it should be expensive, like 1% for 5 skill points as suggested (per character).

And yes, I know, this creates the problem what to do with the current MF equipment and the users and how to compensate them.

This actually gave me an idea…

Runes, sigils, food, buffs, banners stays in the game.
New MF system is introduced where you buy MF for skill points for your character, up to 100% (can be adjusted) 1% for 5 skill points (can be adjusted).
New buff would have higher % than MF equipment stats gives you.
MF equipment stays in the game for next 6 months (a deadline is given when it is going to be removed, can be adjusted)
This would be enough time for most MFers to get skill points for new MF to get it as high as MF they have now with MF equipment. Plus from than on they could get even higher MF.
The new buff would stack with current MF till it is removed. Therefore it would be a bit of compensation for MF users as they would get higher MF than others. Those with enough skill points would get instant, up to 100% buff.
In 6 months the equipment is either automatically changed for some other stat combo or the player would be able to choose new stats for limited pieces per character. Stacking MF equipment would not be profitable.

The change would not be immediate but solved in half a year or so. I am not programer or a developer but introducing this new system would not be that difficult. Put MF tab in hero panel where you can buy MF buff. This is basically just “add x% of MF to y% you already have and take away 5 skill points”. But again, I am not a programer or a developer. Lets say Anet puts this new buff in patch 2 months from now than they would have 6 months to figgure the details of the second phase (equipment trade) of the process.

You could rant about MFers for those couple of months before the change but you would know that they are going to get nerfed and after that everyone would run full combat specs. Plus you could get your own MF buff that does not affect your combat abilities. So it would ease the pain.

Pointy.9308:

Does noone see the irony in sharing/averaging MF among the party? The OP stated that MFer are statisticaly weaker becasue they take MF for personal gain rather than taking combat suitable stats, which is true. And at the same time he (and others) stated that they don´t want to run with these people because they handicap themselves and that the entire party have to work up the loss. That creates biases against MFers. When you introduce sharing/averaging MF system the tables will turn and MF will start posting that they do not want to run with noneMFers because they lower MF for them.

The reason this is not a problem is because, essentially, parties fight together but they do not loot together. Every character stat except mf has at least some benefit to other members of the party, which is the problem that averaging it across a party would attempt to fix. The situation you envisage would be very unlikely to materialize because a)running full zerker is the meta way to do dungeons, if mf wasn’t a significant kitten of character power this would not be the case, b)mf heavy players who refuse to group up with others would be faced with either trying to solo the dungeon or grouping up with other mf heavy players and then wiping because they have compromised too much fighting ability. Both these factors should prevent the problem of mf becoming the new elite stat.

Webba.3071:

Pointy.9308:

Does noone see the irony in sharing/averaging MF among the party? The OP stated that MFer are statisticaly weaker becasue they take MF for personal gain rather than taking combat suitable stats, which is true. And at the same time he (and others) stated that they don´t want to run with these people because they handicap themselves and that the entire party have to work up the loss. That creates biases against MFers. When you introduce sharing/averaging MF system the tables will turn and MF will start posting that they do not want to run with noneMFers because they lower MF for them.

The reason this is not a problem is because, essentially, parties fight together but they do not loot together. Every character stat except mf has at least some benefit to other members of the party, which is the problem that averaging it across a party would attempt to fix. The situation you envisage would be very unlikely to materialize because a)running full zerker is the meta way to do dungeons, if mf wasn’t a significant kitten of character power this would not be the case, b)mf heavy players who refuse to group up with others would be faced with either trying to solo the dungeon or grouping up with other mf heavy players and then wiping because they have compromised too much fighting ability. Both these factors should prevent the problem of mf becoming the new elite stat.

And here we are again. Yes Mf users are more likely to die because they do not have the relevant combat stats but that doesn´t mean they will. Because skill is also needed apart from stats. A dungeon would take longer for a party of 5 MFers but there does not have to be a single death. There are harder and easier dungeons and yes, high level dredge fractal would be a pain for 5 MFers but not impossible. Skill and experience is needed as well.

There is plenty of MFers so no one would be looking too long for a party. Plus, a MFer can switch to some other gear for the tougher fights if he/she has one. Like, for the imbued shaman. And since most encounters in dungeons are trash mobs (there is a lot of people arguing “to skip or not to skip” or “play it the way it was supposed to be played”) the stats loss is not such a pain as people tend to say it is. For normal encounters you do not need all the combat stats nor skill, the problem comes with bosses. There, I agree, an unskilled MFer will drag the party down. But than again an uskilled meta zerker will be a burden as well, especially if he can´t dodge.

I agree that MF needs to be changed, I just disagree with the sharing/averaging solution. It is the same as the (un)holy trinity in this game. There is none (and that is good from my point of view). You are responsible for your own life, damage, tanking ability etc. You are unique asset to the party (world) so you should be responsible for your own MF as well.

Sharing/averaging MF is a sollution yes but sloppy one if you ask me. It is more like putting a carpet over a hole rather than filling it with…whatever you fill holes with…

In party you work together and yes, when it comes to stats MFer isn´t doing as much as others but he is stil contributing and it is not a stat only thing. MF guarian gives you aegis and protection either way, MF thief will still cloak you with shadow refuge the same way as always. MF ranger will still criple all of the mobs with his longbow and his pet will revive you when you are downed. I do not run MF but my elite banner prevented wipe many time when all 4 of my party members got downed in the same place. This is what matters too.

Pointy.9308:

And here we are again. Yes Mf users are more likely to die because they do not have the relevant combat stats but that doesn´t mean they will. Because skill is also needed apart from stats. A dungeon would take longer for a party of 5 MFers but there does not have to be a single death. There are harder and easier dungeons and yes, high level dredge fractal would be a pain for 5 MFers but not impossible. Skill and experience is needed as well.

There is plenty of MFers so no one would be looking too long for a party. Plus, a MFer can switch to some other gear for the tougher fights if he/she has one. Like, for the imbued shaman. And since most encounters in dungeons are trash mobs (there is a lot of people arguing “to skip or not to skip” or “play it the way it was supposed to be played”) the stats loss is not such a pain as people tend to say it is. For normal encounters you do not need all the combat stats nor skill, the problem comes with bosses. There, I agree, an unskilled MFer will drag the party down. But than again an uskilled meta zerker will be a burden as well, especially if he can´t dodge.

I agree that MF needs to be changed, I just disagree with the sharing/averaging solution. It is the same as the (un)holy trinity in this game. There is none (and that is good from my point of view). You are responsible for your own life, damage, tanking ability etc. You are unique asset to the party (world) so you should be responsible for your own MF as well.

Sharing/averaging MF is a sollution yes but sloppy one if you ask me. It is more like putting a carpet over a hole rather than filling it with…whatever you fill holes with…

In party you work together and yes, when it comes to stats MFer isn´t doing as much as others but he is stil contributing and it is not a stat only thing. MF guarian gives you aegis and protection either way, MF thief will still cloak you with shadow refuge the same way as always. MF ranger will still criple all of the mobs with his longbow and his pet will revive you when you are downed. I do not run MF but my elite banner prevented wipe many time when all 4 of my party members got downed in the same place. This is what matters too.

You make some good points but what exactly would the alternative to sharing mf be? I mean personally Id prefer it gone from the game altogether or at least hard capped at 100% or something but Im restricting myself to consider solutions that have at least a snowflakes chance in hell of Anet actually implementing. In any case I still am not convinced mf would become the required stat simply because the best way to earn money from dungeons right now is to zerk through them as fast as possible, and to a speed runner slowing down the dungeon run (which mf gear on every player would most certainly do, regardless of how good they are) is as bad as wiping.

How about adding a new hero slot in the panel for an item that is exclusively +MF% that you can upgrade similar to ascension through MF.

starts at 3%, add doubloons or mats or something to it to upgrade %

Gnat.9405:

How about adding a new hero slot in the panel for an item that is exclusively +MF% that you can upgrade similar to ascension through MF.

starts at 3%, add doubloons or mats or something to it to upgrade %

Or something like this, yes. As far as the upgrades are expensive enough. Or as far as they get more expensive with MF being increased. Like, upgrades from 0-15% it takes t1 mat, from 15-30% you nee t2 mat and so on. Possible a Mystic Forge recipe where you need the item, t1 – t6 mat, maybe the (increasing amount of) daily coins and some dust perhaps (or wine).

But than again, this would create the problem what to do with current MF equipment and how to compensate the players who bought it for gold/gems/real money.

gimmethegepgun.1284:

Dean Calaway.9718:

I’m not sure how you find MF is handicapping the team, if a player dies a lot that doesn’t mean he’s running with MF, maybe he’s just bad or it’s not his day.
Personally I think someone that uses all MF gear knows what he’s actually doing.

It’s handicapping the team because due to the stats difference they perform significantly worse.
And no, MF has no bearing whatsoever on whether or not someone is a skilled/knowledgeable player All it shows is how a player is willing to sacrifice damage or survival for something that isn’t combat related and only for themselves.

My full MF gear makes me a glass cannon, but I’ll run any dungeon you want and I’ll give you 1 gold for every time I get downed in it, I can manage myself, I call that skill, you call it what ever you want.

Like another user mentioned, TC seemed to be fine with it as long as he gets some benefit, if he wants a MF benefit I suggest he gets his own MF gear.
I mean who’s to tell someone is not using blue or green gear instead of exotic? Won’t that cause the same aforementioned handicap problem?
MF is a stat just like any other, deal with it.

No offence but he sounds like the kind of chap that will sit at CoF door for litarely over 15 minutes (seen this constantly happen) waiting for a full zerker warrior party just to save 5 minutes inside the dungeon, talk about time management skills.

Pointy.9308:

Gnat.9405:

How about adding a new hero slot in the panel for an item that is exclusively +MF% that you can upgrade similar to ascension through MF.

starts at 3%, add doubloons or mats or something to it to upgrade %

Or something like this, yes. As far as the upgrades are expensive enough. Or as far as they get more expensive with MF being increased. Like, upgrades from 0-15% it takes t1 mat, from 15-30% you nee t2 mat and so on. Possible a Mystic Forge recipe where you need the item, t1 – t6 mat, maybe the (increasing amount of) daily coins and some dust perhaps (or wine).

But than again, this would create the problem what to do with current MF equipment and how to compensate the players who bought it for gold/gems/real money.

This or making MF an inherent stat would be fine by me too. I’ve a full set of MF gear for soloing, salvaging and opening bags but I’d be fine if it was rendered useless to get rid of the anti-social aspects of MF. Hell I’d be happy if it was removed all together but I can’t speak for all when I say that which is why I’ve stuck with the idea in the OP.

Ok my ideas on MF

As others have said perhaps the sharing out mechanic just wont work so scratching that.

Also to reassure people I think almost every player in the game (MFer and non-MFer) like Magic Find. Everyone likes having a lot of magic find its how this is gained that is the problem.

A few people have said making MF gained from an item either a permanent or a temporary buff. I like the purchase for Skill points idea but I think temporary buff would be better as we saw with the Southsun update. A few ideas on how you could gain this:

1. With each event completed in the open world you would get a 50% MF buff which could stack up to 200% – this would play in with people finishing events etc. The buff would last for 1hr perhaps (maybe 30min). It could drop off one stack at a time or all at once.
2. Overworld MF would drop off once entering dungeons. With each different dungeon completed you would get a 50% buff lasting for 1hr etc – This would possibly help reduce the appeal of CoFp1 (would need to balance it out so MF drops may give more money per run if you choose to do different dungeons in a run, hard as CoFp1 is so easy to finish quick, but possible)

Another idea instead would be to have a rare’ish soulbound (possibly account bound) item drop:

1. It would be similar to above providing a 50% buff stacking to 200% (so you need 4 items etc).
2. This could drop from any mob etc but may have a guaranteed chance of dropping from meta events or end of dungeons.
3. possibly a higher chance from champions making taking them out actually worth the time it takes.

I think this would help by adding a more interesting useful drop, at the moment the drops from mobs are plain boring and you don’t even look at anything blue or green. More useful things need to be dropped.
Using an item might make it a bit less of a chore to ensure your MF buff from events is up. You can accumulate the items and just use when you need to.

Basically the idea behind all of above just gives you MF naturally by playing the game etc.. It would need to be balanced to ensure it isn’t a chore to get the MF buffs but also not ridiculously easy either.

You would phase out MF on gear as suggested above.

Just scrap the MF stat on gear entirely. It has no place on gear and upgrades. Put the MF booster up to 100% or something so its an attractive thing to buy on the TP, creating income and a gold sink etc while leaving players with helpful stats.

Personally, I don’t even notice MF working or not; I can never tell if its the boost or just a string of good luck.

Well I must say I didn’t expect this solution to MF just because it requires so much work to make MF account wide but Kudos to anet!
Glad to hear that in a little while MF on items will be no more.