Guild Wars 2

To make this trait, combine “Missile Deflection” and “Shield Mastery” into a single trait. Just call that “Shield Mastery” and move that down.

Indomitable:
Each time you get a bar of adrenaline, you convert one condition into a boon.

((Another idea was to call the trait: Empowered Rage.))

I actually really like this idea

Daecollo.9578:

To make this trait, combine “Missile Deflection” and “Shield Mastery” into a single trait.

Indomitable:
Each time you get a bar of adrenaline, you convert one condition into a boon.

Move Spiked Armor down a tick and give it stability or protection as well.

Last stance trait support us with stability so it only make sense for Spiked armor to gain protection boon. Everything else the idea is pretty nice.

This is a good idea but I have a problem with it: it has terrible synergy with the mace and the shield because those are the slowest weapons for building adrenaline, yet the defense trait line wants to favor those weapons if you look at some of the traits. So it sounds a little counter-intuitive in the defense line.

Personally, I’d keep that Indomitable idea because it’s a good idea, but I’d also change adrenaline so that we get a generous amount of it when we block or reflect. So you have a bunch of conditions, Shield Stance, block block block block block, now you have a bunch of boons thanks to Indomitable. Then the mace would clear one condition every 8~10 seconds and we would have good synergy with Aegis. Newbies would spam everything on the shield and get overwhelmed by a warrior full of boons, then people would adapt and learn to stop attacking a shielded warrior and it would be balanced.

Considering your asking to move spiked armor to tier two, i presume this new trait would be a grandmaster trait, and in which case i greatly approve. For the first time you’ve come up with a good idea. slow clap Might wanna add a 5 sec ICD tho, but idk, it’d require testing to see how strong it would be.

I originally had the idea because of all the traits we have that gain adrenaline. Also Missile/Shield block just seem like one trait. “Shield Mastery” just seems like adding the Missile Reflect just feels right to me.

Daecollo.9578:

To make this trait, combine “Missile Deflection” and “Shield Mastery” into a single trait.

Indomitable:
Each time you get a bar of adrenaline, you convert one condition into a boon.

Move Spiked Armor down a tick and give it stability or protection as well.

i like the idea but here is what i think indomitable should be

Indomitable:
Reflect missiles whenever you are blocking
-20% shield skill recharge time
gain regen for 10s while blocking with a shield

cleric trinkets+shout+soldier runes or melandru

Daecollo.9578:

To make this trait, combine “Missile Deflection” and “Shield Mastery” into a single trait. Just call that “Shield Mastery” and move that down.

Indomitable:
Each time you get a bar of adrenaline, you convert one condition into a boon.

This is quite possibly the best suggestion made on the Warrior forums to date.

Yep, this is a pretty good suggestion! I also like the shield mastery change!

The great thing is, it does not help them much in PvE, however it helps them a LOT in PvP.

How about just REMOVE a condition upon gaining a bar WITHOUT the use of utilities, that means only in battle…it’s extremely easy for warriors to gain adrenaline atm and that trait would allow both adrenaline surge to EASILY overpower mending and for signet of fury to easily destroy signet of stamina i terms of utility. That would make warriors extremely overpowered. They would have been vulnerable to conditions before but now they’re nearly completely completely immune to them based on how fast they gain adrenaline and how short the cooldowns on those abilities are.

Also warriors have no business converting conditions to boons.

Keep in mind this is a suggestion from a guardian player, I still won’t have trouble with warriors because my only conditions when facing them is burn and immobilize, and the immobilize is very very short anyways + broken out of with any movement skill, so it doesn’t affect my pvp against warriors either way. They’re still gonna get smashed.

Adrenal Surge and Signet of Precision, because of the way they work, they would only count as “One Bar.” even if they fill all three. This was just an idea, but there would no doubt be a small internal cool-down to keep things like that from being used over things like “Berserker’s Stance.”

The converting makes a lot more sense, because Warriors have no initial boons themselves, much likes thieves do not so they simply steal it. With all the new boon hate coming to all classes, the idea is balanced to that. Since its conditions being converted, it would bring Warriors back up on par with Rangers and Guardians in bunkering, just in a different way. It also has a good counter. Boon Removal, Boon Stealing, Not applying condition based attack, and also wells would still convert the boons that are made into conditions, so it does nothing to Necromancers. Its just a very balanced idea.

The fact that it "converts’ conditions to boons makes it stronger AND weaker, because now the boons can be stolen or converted to conditions again.

The Mechanic would make us stronger against Guardians and Elementalists, but much weaker against Thieves and Necromancers. This is IMO how I think it should be, we should be strong against the Lighter-minded classes and weaker against the Darker-minded. Warriors should be easily tricked by thieves and weakened by necromancers.

You also have to remember that we are nerfing our own HP/s from Adrenal Health because we would be constantly using Adrenaline.

each time you gain a bar of adrenalin would be perfect. it would give me a reason to actually USE my adrenalin so I can keep refreshing my bars. I almost cried with joy when I saw that suggestion.

Daecollo.9578:

Indomitable:
Each time you get a bar of adrenaline, you convert one condition into a boon.

OoOooh, quaggan likes you!
No, seriously, I really like this idea and I want it implemented now.

Good Job, Daecollo. That is actually a pretty solid suggestion.

Just goes to show, throw enough rocks into a desert you are bound to hit a lake at some point.

Shield mastery trait rework is awesome. I love shield mastery and last stand its why I can’t part with 30 points in defense. Missile deflection seems odd to anyway as a trait on its own and imo not good enough to take over the other traits especially with dogged march in there now. Also mighty defense should gain adrenaline like someone else suggested as opposed to the 7 sec? It is now.

I don’t know about the conversion to boon I think just losing them would be fair though getting a bar of adrenaline isnt difficult it would also make embrace the pain on par with dogged march in the same tier.

Spiked armor is ? Retal is supposedly nerfed though I can’t tell but I havent tested but I have seen some 300 retal damage procs often from guardians. Maybe bump that up to 10 secs of retal if it procs still keep the 15 sec icd? I could still see moving that down a tier and it would be one of those attractive hmmm I can take this or take that traits both are pretty good.

It’s not really going to make warriors weaker against thieves, it’s not really going to change much about them.

It’s going to make them a ton better against necromancers, however. What you have to remember is that the Necromancer is going to be applying conditions…that the warrior turns into boons…so he can corrupt those boons back into the ORIGINAL conditions that he put on. In summary this change would make equal the effectiveness of pre-change conditions to post-change conditions + corrupt boon. And even then, the warrior will be able to remove those conditions that have been given to him by the necromancer through corruption.

It’s a different story when you’re talking about other kinds of necro builds, which this change will not affect.

S/D thieves don’t really have conditions they can put onto warriors, unless they run venoms, which are absolutely terrible. Even with the venoms, the boons that the thief will be getting will be regeneration and swiftness, hardly a game changer against warriors who can actually burst a thief easier than vice versa (I know warriors who can literally one-shot thieves, with killshot, or with eviscerate figuratively). If anything this will help warriors out because now his might and fury have a buffer from being stolen.

If you’re talking about anything other than a s/d thief that the warrior is fighting, well then, gg.

Guardians do not apply many conditions to you. The reason they’re so hard for warriors to kill is because of their massive sustain and grinding you down thing, while taking little damage due to so much uptime on protection. The only Condition they consistently apply is burning, which is too short to reliably turn into regeneration. And even then they can just pop VoJ and wait it out so they don’t give you conditions to turn into regen. Eles may be a little better, but still not optimal for warriors to fight, as they don’t have to use conditions, and their fire sequence will still massively outdamage any regen you get from turning their burning into regen.

It has the opposite effect, I believe, on what you wanted to do.

Teamkiller.4315:

It’s not really going to make warriors weaker against thieves, it’s not really going to change much about them.

It’s going to make them a ton better against necromancers, however. What you have to remember is that the Necromancer is going to be applying conditions…that the warrior turns into boons…so he can corrupt those boons back into the ORIGINAL conditions that he put on. In summary this change would make equal the effectiveness of pre-change conditions to post-change conditions + corrupt boon. And even then, the warrior will be able to remove those conditions that have been given to him by the necromancer through corruption.

It’s a different story when you’re talking about other kinds of necro builds, which this change will not affect.

S/D thieves don’t really have conditions they can put onto warriors, unless they run venoms, which are absolutely terrible. Even with the venoms, the boons that the thief will be getting will be regeneration and swiftness, hardly a game changer against warriors who can actually burst a thief easier than vice versa (I know warriors who can literally one-shot thieves, with killshot, or with eviscerate figuratively). If anything this will help warriors out because now his might and fury have a buffer from being stolen.

If you’re talking about anything other than a s/d thief that the warrior is fighting, well then, gg.

Guardians do not apply many conditions to you. The reason they’re so hard for warriors to kill is because of their massive sustain and grinding you down thing, while taking little damage due to so much uptime on protection. The only Condition they consistently apply is burning, which is too short to reliably turn into regeneration. And even then they can just pop VoJ and wait it out so they don’t give you conditions to turn into regen. Eles may be a little better, but still not optimal for warriors to fight, as they don’t have to use conditions, and their fire sequence will still massively outdamage any regen you get from turning their burning into regen.

It has the opposite effect, I believe, on what you wanted to do.

The reason I said to convert the conditions into boons is to give it counter play against classes like Necromancer/Thief/Mesmer who steal conditions.

If you just remove them then Necromancers have nothing to take, Thieves and Mesmers have nothing to steal.

The idea is to make us stronger against Classes like Guardian/Elementalist/Engineer but weaker against Thieves/Mesmers/Necromancers.

So the boons are also kind of a nerf if you think about it.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Well_of_Corruption
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Corrupt_Boon
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Larcenous_Strike
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bountiful_Theft
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Spinal_Shivers
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Null_Field
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mind_Stab
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mind_Spike
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Destruction_of_the_Empowered

Since these classes have so many abilities that benefit from targets having boons

With Larcenous Strike and Bountiful Theft, they would love to fight this kind of warrior, it would be a counter. Necromancer would as well, the more boons they have the more they can convert to conditions.

S/D Thieves HAVE many conditions they can put on Warriors…
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Crippling_Strike
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Tactical_Strike
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Infiltrator%27s_Strike
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Serpent's_Touch
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cloak_and_Dagger

I play both a Thief and a Warrior, this idea would be great to help my Warrior in PvP, but if you simply remove the boon, it offers no help or counter-play to these kinds of classes and abilities.

You have to really understand it to get it.

This would make people actually put Berzerkers Stance on their bar.

Good suggestions here, I support it :P

i support this idea gj daecollo

Too bad it’s not a signet change and will not get even considered. Try editing the title to have the word signet in it so JP reads it.

Vanthian.9267:

Good Job, Daecollo. That is actually a pretty solid suggestion.

Just goes to show, throw enough rocks into a desert you are bound to hit a lake at some point.

Hahaha so true. So so so true.

If only I could call a developer. I feel like his is exactly what we need!

Such a great idea, I hope ANET sees this, good pro’s and con’s there would definitely have to be an internal cool down though.

With this change, and the change to turn the brawn bonus into just a flat global weapon reduction depending in points spent (for all weapons we have, so that the brawn bonus can be used by any spec) I could see warriors sitting in a really good place.

Only thing is this trait would almost be mandatory for tpvp and wvw and might pigeon hole warriors, but I would rather be pidgeon holed by a great trait rather than a lack of good traits.

BlueprintLFE.2358:

Such a great idea, I hope ANET sees this, good pro’s and con’s there would definitely have to be an internal cool down though.

With this change, and the change to turn the brawn bonus into just a flat global weapon reduction depending in points spent (for all weapons we have, so that the brawn bonus can be used by any spec) I could see warriors sitting in a really good place.

Only thing is this trait would almost be mandatory for tpvp and wvw and might pigeon hole warriors, but I would rather be pidgeon holed by a great trait rather than a lack of good traits.

It does have an internal cool-down already.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Burst

The burst skill! Its the only way to lose adrenaline. So you have to spend your adrenaline so the trait works, you can’t just hold onto it, this means it has good counter play, because now your enemies have to “watch-your-burst” instead of just knowing they can ignore it because skills like arcing slice, they do nothing at the moment, now enemies will actually want to dodge or block those abilities because otherwise you can cure or convert there conditions.

Most warriors never use burst because its not worth it, I’d rather hold onto it for the extra 9% critical chance/360 3-second healing/12% base damage increase.

Ah yeah didnt think of that, good call

I approve this message.

Daecollo, I really like how you never stop trying to improve the profession. Even when your ideas don’t really gain support, you just move on to the next one. It’s fantastic.

Very solid suggestion.

Teamkiller.4315:

Also warriors have no business converting conditions to boons.

What do you mean? Warriors already have a trait that let’s them do that; “Quick Breathing” converts 1 condition to a boon whenever you use a Warhorn skill. Why not another in a different line, with a different mechanic?

I like the idea!

I just really like this idea… ugh… I wish we had something like this so we could have the condition management that every OTHER class recieves.

Next Ideas:
Merge the current Signet Mastery and Deep Strikes into one trait. Call it “Signet Mastery.”

Merge the current Sundering Mace, Cull the Weak into one trait. Call it “Sundering Mace.”

(new.)
Furious:
Critical hits grant extra adrenaline strikes. (like it is now.)
Gaining an adrenaline strike additionally heals you.
(Not as much an the omnomberry pie did, but it helps make up for the loss of healing, and its also in a friendly tree, there is also a cap to how much adrenaline you can get every 10 seconds, so it does have a kind-of-internal-cool-down.)

(new.)
Deep Strikes:
Bleeding deals damage. (applying it.)
(Not that much damage, mind you. Just to make up for how little sword autoattack does in general to bring it up-to-par with other weapons, this is an option for people who want to mix power/condition damage!)

(new.)
Sundering Mace:
Mace damage is increased by 15%. Reduces cooldown of mace skills by 20%.

(new.)
Cull the Weak:
Weakness you apply last 50% longer.
Increases critical chance to weakened foes by 5%

I like The healing on adrenaline gain, if you think about this, it fits right in with the warrior style, in order to receive sustain and your heals you would have to be right in The thick of things actively fighting. This way warriors can’t just burst then kite around and heal up.

Now I never used omnomberry pies as I had a feeling it was going to get nerfed and I didn’t want to rely on something that would be game changing when it was nerfed.

But… From what I have seen of the warrior videos with Crit heal food it looked like warriors were in a good spot (obviously too good) but finally we got to see warriors fighting 1vX and having a chance with some sustain, and finally we saw warriors lasting in guardian battles and against mesmers. I feel that was the perfect way for a warrior to gain sustain as well. By doing damage to enemies and inflicting wounds. Kind of like a blood thirst heal

Even if it just removed a condition every time you gained an adrenaline strike it would be nice… Though converting one to a boon might be a bit overpowered in my eyes (not that it would make warriors overpowered, but that it would be overpowered as an individual trait).

lol it only sounds good on paper, that`s all

Teamkiller.4315:

How about just REMOVE a condition upon gaining a bar WITHOUT the use of utilities, that means only in battle…it’s extremely easy for warriors to gain adrenaline atm and that trait would allow both adrenaline surge to EASILY overpower mending and for signet of fury to easily destroy signet of stamina i terms of utility. That would make warriors extremely overpowered. They would have been vulnerable to conditions before but now they’re nearly completely completely immune to them based on how fast they gain adrenaline and how short the cooldowns on those abilities are.

Also warriors have no business converting conditions to boons.

Keep in mind this is a suggestion from a guardian player, I still won’t have trouble with warriors because my only conditions when facing them is burn and immobilize, and the immobilize is very very short anyways + broken out of with any movement skill, so it doesn’t affect my pvp against warriors either way. They’re still gonna get smashed.

I suppose we will forget warhorn converting conditions.

Dempsey.8760:

Teamkiller.4315:

How about just REMOVE a condition upon gaining a bar WITHOUT the use of utilities, that means only in battle…it’s extremely easy for warriors to gain adrenaline atm and that trait would allow both adrenaline surge to EASILY overpower mending and for signet of fury to easily destroy signet of stamina i terms of utility. That would make warriors extremely overpowered. They would have been vulnerable to conditions before but now they’re nearly completely completely immune to them based on how fast they gain adrenaline and how short the cooldowns on those abilities are.

Also warriors have no business converting conditions to boons.

Keep in mind this is a suggestion from a guardian player, I still won’t have trouble with warriors because my only conditions when facing them is burn and immobilize, and the immobilize is very very short anyways + broken out of with any movement skill, so it doesn’t affect my pvp against warriors either way. They’re still gonna get smashed.

I suppose we will forget warhorn converting conditions.

It does so little when you have multiple conditions coming at ya plus conditions comes on rapidly and not every warriors wants to spec for runes of lyssa or warriors shout and signet of stamina. To believe it or not *Signet of Stamina and also a trait should be passive to get rid of condition every 10 seconds.

Warriors want to breathe man not suffocate.

Converting conditions to boons would give the other classes counter-play against us. Boon-hate as well.

We really need more ways to use our adrenaline.

Daecollo.9578:

We really need more ways to use our adrenaline.

What do you mean? I use it a lot in pve, but in Pvp like Tournies etc I rarely use because I need adrenal health to stay alive to bunker a node. Not that it does much against certain foes and receiving foul mouth for playing one.

I really hope we have some readers though, I love this idea so much!:<

Brutalistik.6473:

Daecollo.9578:

We really need more ways to use our adrenaline.

What do you mean? I use it a lot in pve, but in Pvp like Tournies etc I rarely use because I need adrenal health to stay alive to bunker a node. Not that it does much against certain foes and receiving foul mouth for playing one.

Bunker with healing shouts? Because if you pick the trait that gives adrenaline on shouting you can use your F1 everytime before you shout x 3 and you will never run out of adrenaline :p

Clip.6845:

Brutalistik.6473:

Daecollo.9578:

We really need more ways to use our adrenaline.

What do you mean? I use it a lot in pve, but in Pvp like Tournies etc I rarely use because I need adrenal health to stay alive to bunker a node. Not that it does much against certain foes and receiving foul mouth for playing one.

Bunker with healing shouts? Because if you pick the trait that gives adrenaline on shouting you can use your F1 everytime before you shout x 3 and you will never run out of adrenaline :p

Well, you can always “Miss” too, for example some people blind me right before I use my F1 and I miss it. Giving me another 8-10 seconds of not being able to use burst.

Clip.6845:

Brutalistik.6473:

Daecollo.9578:

We really need more ways to use our adrenaline.

What do you mean? I use it a lot in pve, but in Pvp like Tournies etc I rarely use because I need adrenal health to stay alive to bunker a node. Not that it does much against certain foes and receiving foul mouth for playing one.

Bunker with healing shouts? Because if you pick the trait that gives adrenaline on shouting you can use your F1 everytime before you shout x 3 and you will never run out of adrenaline :p

Don’t use healing shouts because banner’s regeneration are better in a lot of situations in pvp, but only to a certain extent.

Brutalistik.6473:

in Pvp like Tournies etc I rarely use because I need adrenal health to stay alive to bunker a node. Not that it does much against certain foes and receiving foul mouth for playing one.

I’ve always though it was terrible that the warrior had any traits that encouraged pooling adrenaline; i.e. not using our class gimmick. I can see the intent of the traits, which seem aimed at not punishing warriors for “wasting” potential Adrenaline by not using their Burst skills on CD along with providing an choice between, aha, burst damage and sustained damage or burst damage and some healing.

Of course, the ball got kinda dropped by making most of said traits and most of the Burst skills damage oriented. Forcing the two into competition with each other on damage. In doing so the devs ensured that either pooling or spending Adrenaline would always be numerically superior to the other in most any given situation.

Berserker’s Power and Heightened Focus do not provide an interesting choice under almost any circumstance. Adrenal Health is better about this, but still is not ultimately that engaging; if only because it seems like such a minor buff unless you’re playing a regen focused bunker build, where, as Brutalistik says, it can feel too valuable to give up.

I believe that, instead, these traits should grant a non-boon buff that provides the same level of bonus for an increasing length of time depending on the amount of adrenaline spent.

For example, if Adrenal Health gave 125/240/360 healing/3 seconds for 10/14/18 seconds after using a Burst skill. It would encourage Burst skill usage without trapping warriors in a scenario where they are required to use their Burst skills on cooldown to maintain the buffs.

125/250/360 every second.

Well done, Daecollo. You have totally missed the point of everything in my entire post.

Looks like the broken clock has moved on from being correct once more. Does my heart good to see the universe work as ordained.

Warrior really needs better condition control. I stand by my first idea.

dev should read this so bump

Kirster.4605:

dev should read this so bump

They do, but they’re probably busy with other projects besides this to enhance the game. If they happen to post on it then kudos to this thread. It will bring attention on a positive note.