Guild Wars 2

Daecollo.9578:

The Truth Warriors have been on life support and using items / food for crutches since the game started, when the developers decided to nerf and remove these items from gameplay, it greatly effected us moreso then any other class in the game ten fold.

We still use items to compensate for our weak class, like the shout rune build requires full soldier runes, 30 trait points, greatly lowering our DPS for half-* survivability.

At the post above.

To be able to compete with other classes we MUST have items… We simply just have horrible traits.

Daecollo.9578:

Daecollo.9578:

The Truth Warriors have been on life support and using items / food for crutches since the game started, when the developers decided to nerf and remove these items from gameplay, it greatly effected us moreso then any other class in the game ten fold.

We still use items to compensate for our weak class, like the shout rune build requires full soldier runes, 30 trait points, greatly lowering our DPS for half-* survivability.

At the post above.

To be able to compete with other classes we MUST have items… We simply just have horrible traits.

Every class should have the appropriate food and mechanic oils for their build. It’s simply a must. It’s free extra stats. why the hell not take it? The herb that happens man. There’s literally no downside, unless you are talking about money to spend, toward having food.

Second, Your interpretation of items can be considered that we must rely on a certain amount of rune sets that have been designated cookie cutter for a warrior. If by relying on items you mean A) divinity runes/glass red orbs (lol)soldier runes (which ever remove condi’s on shouts) or C) some bunker stacking runes. Personally you all should start using Lysa runes. best thing ever for a warrior. Literally making a Matale 2.0 video because lysa is so good in conjunction with hammer and sword board.

The other classes things are not something they /rely/ upon, its simply an awesome bonus. That is what i’m getting at!

Daecollo.9578:

The other classes things are not something they /rely/ upon, its simply an awesome bonus. That is what i’m getting at!

I don’t see how it’s a bonus as much as it is a crutch, as mentioned above. Relying on rune sets instead of grabrage traits and garbage utilities? pretty sad.

@Varonth.5830

There is a very very very good reason why people take shield over warhorn. What damage mitigation does a warrior have? Dodge, what else? Nothing else besides shield, the block is to mitigate the really big hard hitting combos OTHERS WILL DO TO YOU. If you tell me Endure will do this then go take the entire hgh engineer nade combo to the face and when your stacked with every single condition on you, I doubt you’ll sing the same tune.

I can tell you 9/10 times, you won’t use dodge to dodge attacks but try to stick to the enemy because you are cripple/chilled 90% of the time (only gapcloser that isn’t affected by conditions for warriors) and/or the enemy you just got close used his dodge and is magically out of harms way after losing half your health to get close.

nicknamenick.2437:

weird.. forum bug? lol

lol wondering the same. I never said you needed to take it all, just that there’s plenty there for you to have survivability. I survive zerg fights all day long with berserker gear, so from where I’m sitting, warriors are in a decent spot. They certainly aren’t the worst in survivability either.

Scoobaniec.9561:

As Varonth said. Think outside of box.

We need better sustain, thats a fact.
Better condition removal? A bit, but not much highter from current place.
Lacking of vigor? Pick up warhorn with quick breathing trait and tell me that again.

Also engineer constans protection? Should i move to their forum and link what did u just said? They will have nice time talking with you.

Yeah engie def have some serious damage mitigations man…

Daecollo.9578:

Class Description.
Classes that are good at Enduring Punishment by List:
- Ranger. (Evade Spam/Mobility/Protection/Vigor/High Regeneration/Takes considerably less damage when almost dead.)
- Guardian. (Constant Protection/Vigor/High Regeneration.)
- Elementalist. (Constant Protection/Vigor/Regeneration.)
- Engineer. (Constant Protection/Vigor/Regeneration.)
- Mesmer. (Evades/Invuln Spam/Blinks.)
- Thief. (Evade Spam/Stealth Spam/Teleports.)
- Necromancer. (Bad Traits, Life-force doesn’t trait well with other skills.)
- Warrior. (No protection/Poor Condition Removal/Bad Traits.)

As a non-warrior my list of classes that I can kill the quickest are:

1) Warrior
2) Ranger
3) Thief
4) Mesmer
5) Engineer
6) Necro
7 Guardian
8) Elementalist

So I agree with you on warriors from a non-warrior point of view.

BossFi.6917:

Daecollo.9578:

Class Description.
Classes that are good at Enduring Punishment by List:
- Ranger. (Evade Spam/Mobility/Protection/Vigor/High Regeneration/Takes considerably less damage when almost dead.)
- Guardian. (Constant Protection/Vigor/High Regeneration.)
- Elementalist. (Constant Protection/Vigor/Regeneration.)
- Engineer. (Constant Protection/Vigor/Regeneration.)
- Mesmer. (Evades/Invuln Spam/Blinks.)
- Thief. (Evade Spam/Stealth Spam/Teleports.)
- Necromancer. (Bad Traits, Life-force doesn’t trait well with other skills.)
- Warrior. (No protection/Poor Condition Removal/Bad Traits.)

As a non-warrior my list of classes that I can kill the quickest are:

1) Warrior
2) Ranger
3) Thief
4) Mesmer
5) Engineer
6) Necro
7) Guardian
8) Elementalist

So I agree with you on warriors from a non-warrior point of view.

When I play on thief it’s pretty much the same experience. I’d change BM ranger to 8 together with bunker ele and I’d rate necro with dps eles to around 4 or so. Warriors are always absolutely helpless, doesn’t matter if I run d/p or s/d. The rare times they are actually a threat is when people underestimate them and actually ignore them in teamfights.

Forestgreen.7981:

@Varonth.5830

There is a very very very good reason why people take shield over warhorn. What damage mitigation does a warrior have? Dodge, what else? Nothing else besides shield, the block is to mitigate the really big hard hitting combos OTHERS WILL DO TO YOU. If you tell me Endure will do this then go take the entire hgh engineer nade combo to the face and when your stacked with every single condition on you, I doubt you’ll sing the same tune.

I can tell you 9/10 times, you won’t use dodge to dodge attacks but try to stick to the enemy because you are cripple/chilled 90% of the time (only gapcloser that isn’t affected by conditions for warriors) and/or the enemy you just got close used his dodge and is magically out of harms way after losing half your health to get close.

Charge gives you swiftness and removes cripple and chill.

Call to Arms will give you vigor for more dodgerolls. Immunity time from extra vigor dodgerolls over 30s is 2.25s. And with the extra range, you will often ‘dodge’ additional attacks, which will just miss. Being able to spread out your immunity, is superior to one long not so immune immunity, unless you are fighting vs. braindead stuff that will keep throwing all their hard hitters on your block.
Everyone else will use these 3 seconds to:

• Get into a better position
• Setup burst to use when the block ends
• Heal themselfs
• Cast stuff with long casttimes when your block just has like 1s left

Swimsasa Stoon.8936:

Daecollo.9578:

Class Description.
As a heavily armored soldier profession, warriors are only second to guardians in terms of enduring punishment.

Classes that are good at Enduring Punishment by List:
- Ranger. (Evade Spam/Mobility/Protection/Vigor/High Regeneration/Takes considerably less damage when almost dead.)
- Guardian. (Constant Protection/Vigor/High Regeneration.)
- Elementalist. (Constant Protection/Vigor/Regeneration.)
- Engineer. (Constant Protection/Vigor/Regeneration.)
- Mesmer. (Evades/Invuln Spam/Blinks.)
- Thief. (Evade Spam/Stealth Spam/Teleports.)
- Necromancer. (Bad Traits, Life-force doesn’t trait well with other skills.)
- Warrior. (No protection/Poor Condition Removal/Bad Traits.)

Something is wrong.

indeed something is wrong and that is your list XD.
Wariors can bunker too if they wanted to but they don’t feel the need to. All the other classes do. Even guardians because they have very low base hp. Stat wise the warior far out classes all the other professions in armor and hp. Why else are wariors always requested in dungeon runs?

Ranger doesn’t have protection
Elementalist doesn’t have perma protection and there’s stuff wrong with the rest of your list too. I may not have played warior much in pvp but I have played elementalists, guardians and rangers.

Wow this guy need to play more classes.

Ranger protection is allover the place it comes in little chunks but it is there and often.

Ele perma protection is easily achieved so read up on it in the line above. Look at auras and figure it out.

That last sentence must be a lie or you played them very little compared ot the rest of us.

While the list is over blown a bit fact is if you level each of these classes you start to understand that much of what he says is true.

Sig explains it it all.

Varonth.5830:

Forestgreen.7981:

@Varonth.5830

There is a very very very good reason why people take shield over warhorn. What damage mitigation does a warrior have? Dodge, what else? Nothing else besides shield, the block is to mitigate the really big hard hitting combos OTHERS WILL DO TO YOU. If you tell me Endure will do this then go take the entire hgh engineer nade combo to the face and when your stacked with every single condition on you, I doubt you’ll sing the same tune.

I can tell you 9/10 times, you won’t use dodge to dodge attacks but try to stick to the enemy because you are cripple/chilled 90% of the time (only gapcloser that isn’t affected by conditions for warriors) and/or the enemy you just got close used his dodge and is magically out of harms way after losing half your health to get close.

Charge gives you swiftness and removes cripple and chill.

Call to Arms will give you vigor for more dodgerolls. Immunity time from extra vigor dodgerolls over 30s is 2.25s. And with the extra range, you will often ‘dodge’ additional attacks, which will just miss. Being able to spread out your immunity, is superior to one long not so immune immunity, unless you are fighting vs. braindead stuff that will keep throwing all their hard hitters on your block.
Everyone else will use these 3 seconds to:

• Get into a better position
• Setup burst to use when the block ends
• Heal themselfs
• Cast stuff with long casttimes when your block just has like 1s left

The point is to block as the hard hits are coming, looks like you’re using the block too early. Also I only used nades from engineers as a example, the more common blocks will be the Mesmer sword 3→immoloblize into sword 2 shatter combo. Don’t tell me you’re going to dodge everytime and everything nonstop with that warhorn? If you can do this why aren’t you simply destroying everyone in tpvp and 1rank? Warhorn is more of a team utility than it is a “oh crap it’s coming and I can’t dodge it because of xxx get out of jail free card” on a 30s cooldown.

If you want all that amazing 100% vigor uptime go play mesmer, they get vigor on crit.

BossFi.6917:

Daecollo.9578:

Class Description.
Classes that are good at Enduring Punishment by List:
- Ranger. (Evade Spam/Mobility/Protection/Vigor/High Regeneration/Takes considerably less damage when almost dead.)
- Guardian. (Constant Protection/Vigor/High Regeneration.)
- Elementalist. (Constant Protection/Vigor/Regeneration.)
- Engineer. (Constant Protection/Vigor/Regeneration.)
- Mesmer. (Evades/Invuln Spam/Blinks.)
- Thief. (Evade Spam/Stealth Spam/Teleports.)
- Necromancer. (Bad Traits, Life-force doesn’t trait well with other skills.)
- Warrior. (No protection/Poor Condition Removal/Bad Traits.)

As a non-warrior my list of classes that I can kill the quickest are:

1) Warrior
2) Ranger
3) Thief
4) Mesmer
5) Engineer
6) Necro
7 Guardian
8) Elementalist

So I agree with you on warriors from a non-warrior point of view.

That may be true, however that is only to enemies that are standing still with no blocks/protection/evades/aegis/blinds/fears…

A good example of proper AI mobs that do blocks/have brains/actually blind and use there abilities are in zones such as Twilight Arbor/Caudecus’s Manor
You will notice if you go on http://gw2lfg.com/ click CoF Explorable, you will see everyone needs Zerker warriors, now look up TA/CM explorable, Warriors are Horrible in those zones, because the mobs actually DO Things…

Unfortunately in most PvE, mobs do not do anything and just stand still. If you do a pvp damage comparison the warriors DPS on targets that are actually moving and doing all those things is actually very low.

In WvWvW for example the PvE mobs actually do things like dodge/blind/block/aegis/evade/knockdown and you notice a huge difference, in new content as well. Warriors arn’t monsters, they are only good to things that stand still and take hits.

They are eventually going to revamp things like CoF Path 1 so the mobs actually do things like the newer PvE mobs are, however until then. Yes they do have the highest calculated damage.

Swimsasa Stoon.8936:

Ranger doesn’t have protection

I may not have played warior much in pvp but I have played elementalists, guardians and rangers.

15 points in Wilderness Survival get a ranger Companion’s Defense: You and your pet gain 2 seconds of protection when you dodge roll.

BrimstoneAshe.5043:

Swimsasa Stoon.8936:

Ranger doesn’t have protection

I may not have played warior much in pvp but I have played elementalists, guardians and rangers.

15 points in Wilderness Survival get a ranger Companion’s Defense: You and your pet gain 2 seconds of protection when you dodge roll.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Companion%27s_Defense
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Nature%27s_Protection
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stone_Spirit
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Protecting_Screech
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Protection_

Warrior is THE condition remover in raids and group fights. So erase bad condition remover. People are just to damage horny to trait for some removal.

MiLkZz.4789:

Warrior is THE condition remover in raids and group fights. So erase bad condition remover. People are just to damage horny to trait for some removal.

……………………………………………………

Thing is that to get good condition removal you are pigeon holed into using either Lyssa or Soldier runes. For the soldier runes to be effective you have to use a shout build which takes up a lot of space on your bar which could be put to better use. Lyssa is a little more versatile but only grant you 2 full wipes if you use SoR and SoS which both have long cast times/cooldowns and can be interrupted. It would be nice to be able to trait some passive condition removal which would give us more build freedom.

Daecollo.9578:

MiLkZz.4789:

Warrior is THE condition remover in raids and group fights. So erase bad condition remover. People are just to damage horny to trait for some removal.

……………………………………………………

Glad you agree, hahaha

ps.: ofcourse I know

Julie Yann.5379:

Thing is that to get good condition removal you are pigeon holed into using either Lyssa or Soldier runes. For the soldier runes to be effective you have to use a shout build which takes up a lot of space on your bar which could be put to better use. Lyssa is a little more versatile but only grant you 2 full wipes if you use SoR and SoS which both have long cast times/cooldowns and can be interrupted. It would be nice to be able to trait some passive condition removal which would give us more build freedom.

We do have a passive (shrug it off) but it’s not very good as-is. Though I will say one thing for it: after starting to level up my guardian and trying the signet/purity which I largely ignored in my bouts of PvP, I’ve realized that merely losing a condition or two every 10s is less impressive than it sounded. Rather than having a cooldown, as shrug it off does, it literally just occurs every ten seconds whether you’ve a condition or no, and so it’s down to sheer luck if it works for something that’s important in the short term – as well as whether it ends up removing an important condition when it does happen.

So yeah, the 30s cooldown sucks, but the way it activates is nice. You still need to deal with things like immobilise or fear manually in a lot of cases, but that saves it from removing a single stack of bleeding or whatever too, and other than that requirement it activates when necessary rather than on a set schedule, which is helpful. I’d like to see for both classes some improvement here: warrior’s trait should have less of a c/d (15 seconds?) and be combined with shout recharge IMO, while for a guardian, if you have both purity and the signet, they should be staggered (i.e. one every five seconds, not two every ten seconds).

Julie Yann.5379:

Thing is that to get good condition removal you are pigeon holed into using either Lyssa or Soldier runes. For the soldier runes to be effective you have to use a shout build which takes up a lot of space on your bar which could be put to better use. Lyssa is a little more versatile but only grant you 2 full wipes if you use SoR and SoS which both have long cast times/cooldowns and can be interrupted. It would be nice to be able to trait some passive condition removal which would give us more build freedom.

If you go 10 into Strength and pick up Restorative Healing and use it with Mending you get some really handy condition removal. Restorative Healing will remove all the movement hindering conditions BEFORE Mending removes two conditions. That usually leaves it with two conditions that are damaging you and giving you a pretty clean slate every 25 seconds. The downside is the obviously weak amount of healing it provides compared to our massive pool of HP that doesn’t ever fill back up in combat.

Forestgreen.7981:

Varonth.5830:

Forestgreen.7981:

@Varonth.5830

There is a very very very good reason why people take shield over warhorn. What damage mitigation does a warrior have? Dodge, what else? Nothing else besides shield, the block is to mitigate the really big hard hitting combos OTHERS WILL DO TO YOU. If you tell me Endure will do this then go take the entire hgh engineer nade combo to the face and when your stacked with every single condition on you, I doubt you’ll sing the same tune.

I can tell you 9/10 times, you won’t use dodge to dodge attacks but try to stick to the enemy because you are cripple/chilled 90% of the time (only gapcloser that isn’t affected by conditions for warriors) and/or the enemy you just got close used his dodge and is magically out of harms way after losing half your health to get close.

Charge gives you swiftness and removes cripple and chill.

Call to Arms will give you vigor for more dodgerolls. Immunity time from extra vigor dodgerolls over 30s is 2.25s. And with the extra range, you will often ‘dodge’ additional attacks, which will just miss. Being able to spread out your immunity, is superior to one long not so immune immunity, unless you are fighting vs. braindead stuff that will keep throwing all their hard hitters on your block.
Everyone else will use these 3 seconds to:

• Get into a better position
• Setup burst to use when the block ends
• Heal themselfs
• Cast stuff with long casttimes when your block just has like 1s left

The point is to block as the hard hits are coming, looks like you’re using the block too early. Also I only used nades from engineers as a example, the more common blocks will be the Mesmer sword 3->immoloblize into sword 2 shatter combo. Don’t tell me you’re going to dodge everytime and everything nonstop with that warhorn? If you can do this why aren’t you simply destroying everyone in tpvp and 1rank? Warhorn is more of a team utility than it is a “oh crap it’s coming and I can’t dodge it because of xxx get out of jail free card” on a 30s cooldown.

If you want all that amazing 100% vigor uptime go play mesmer, they get vigor on crit.

So do Ele and Guardian.
And do you really believe that protection is going to save you?
I give you an idea about what is happening when someone shatters you:
Shattered Concentration

Jep, it will get removed.
You know what will happen to your boons if you dodge like for example guardians, mesmers or eles? Nothing, because you don’t get hit.

And Rank in tPvP… well I don’t have a team. Since the matchmaking is bugged being highly ranked as a solo player is a pure luck based system, so I just stopped playing tPvP when I read this post.

pot.6805:

Nickeloneon.8714:

Swimsasa Stoon.8936:

Wariors can bunker too if they wanted to

Lol. Good one.

I know right. You can tell someone never truly played a warrior when they claim warriors can actually bunker.

XD I have a lvl 80 warior and I do sometimes take ‘m to pvp.
The warior can most certainly become a front-line tanker but you need to trait and spec for it something warior generally don’t do because they can face-tank anything in pve without having to do that.
Highest hp pool- highest base armor
Somehow he forgot to put that in his list.

Swimsasa Stoon.8936:

Ranger doesn’t have protection

……………….Well…Actually…rangers do have protection..

Scoobaniec.9561:

As Varonth said. Think outside of box.

We need better sustain, thats a fact.
Better condition removal? A bit, but not much highter from current place.
Lacking of vigor? Pick up warhorn with quick breathing trait and tell me that again.

Also engineer constans protection? Should i move to their forum and link what did u just said? They will have nice time talking with you.

warhorn doesnt remove 4 conditions it removes 2 if traited. 1 for each skill and it always removes the movments ones traited or not. Its great and its not. Its great becasue it is whakitten is. ts bad if your using it for condi removal. A. beacuse it costs 20 points to make it remove 2 condtions which are not instant adn you pick up 2 useless minor traits. . and B becasue it takes up a weapon slot and it does not damage. It offers little damage mitigation as its done via weakness which can be removed from and enemy and you still will take damage regardless. A shield is still better for damage mitigation.

engineer
*Protective Shield (I Invetions): Gain protection for 3 seconds when you are hit with a critical attack 20 second cooldown.
*Protection Injection (VI Alchemy): Gain protection for 3 seconds whenever you are disabled. (stun, daze, knockdown, knockback, launch, float, sink, fear). This effect can trigger once every 5 seconds.

TLDR warhorns are great I use them, but they are not the solution. you dont know about engineers.

Swimsasa Stoon.8936:

pot.6805:

Nickeloneon.8714:

Swimsasa Stoon.8936:

Wariors can bunker too if they wanted to

Lol. Good one.

I know right. You can tell someone never truly played a warrior when they claim warriors can actually bunker.

XD I have a lvl 80 warior and I do sometimes take ‘m to pvp.
The warior can most certainly become a front-line tanker but you need to trait and spec for it something warior generally don’t do because they can face-tank anything in pve without having to do that.
Highest hp pool- highest base armor
Somehow he forgot to put that in his list.

Uh… I don’t think that’s what bunkering is. Warriors can have a good buffer-tank, or they can have good damage output, but they’re flawed in the sense that – whichever you choose – you don’t tend to kill fast enough to save yourself (this being relative to other classes, since obviously the human element allows it to go either way whatever the balance may be). Either your damage is jaw-dropping and you die to an odd look, or you can withstand quite a pummelling but not put out enough damage, nor avoid enough of it, nor replenish enough health to outlast your enemy.

Look at the stereotypical HB approach for example: like any glass cannon, you rely on not taking damage in the first place, yet you haven’t the evasion to keep that up in a fight. The solution is to attempt to incapacitate them for a brief moment and seal their fate before you would need any evasion. This is of course quite limited as a strategy, because you rely on opportune targets, and once they learn what makes them opportune targets and quit doing it, you’re out of luck.

On the other hand, being able to specialize so highly in dealing damage, or being a solid wall of health (with some CC and group buffs to throw around), they do make decent support in WvW. And PvE has stupid enemies. They’re typically easier to evade or kite, don’t often heal at all or especially recover as much of their health as players can, and if you go wall-of-health and see that you’re dying faster than it is… well, mostly you can just… wander off. Once additional survivability becomes redundant, you can either load up the damage and chew through content, or stack up your massive buffer and just enjoy redundant survivability (or a bit of both).

High hp means nothing. Without sustain. High defense is more important than high hp. protection offers more defense than toughness does. High damage is great if its reliable but its not reliable in pvp. You have great unreliable damage with high HP that is un sustainable, possibly great defense at the cost of losing unreliable damage but not better than a class with protection and reliable damage.

Uh… are you translating my post for Kirk’s log or something?