Guild Wars 2

I’d like arenanet to implement a system where those who are healing and buffing their allies will get credit for kills their allies make. This would be overridden by someone who got full kill credit. That way you could not double dip. (IE you couldn’t get more than 100% of possible exp ever). I’d say the exp/karma/wexp rewards would be reduced as well as the chances for loot, but it should still be present. This allows the person killing to get full credit and the person buffing/healing to get partial credit as well. (there was confusion about “siphoning”)

Right now I can do 10% damage to something and get credit for the kill and yet I can buff them up and heal them and get nothing unless I hurt the monster or player myself.

While this is only a small to moderate problem in PVE, players in WvW get utterly shafted. You can support an entire fight and barely get anything, yet I can switch to a DPS build and bags will flow like rain. Please throw a bone to us supportive characters.

No interest in this at all?

I’ve said this before…they need to give the credit from the buffs to those who actually DO the buffing. If a guardian gives you 12 stacks of might, the extra damage you do from those might stacks should go to the guardian’s damage done.
If someone heals you then they should get partial credit for all the damage you do for 5 seconds. Same with cleansing.

My partner in this game prefers buffer/healing/supportive roles and watching them struggle with badges in WvW is incredulous considering we’ve taken out groups twice our size thanks to good support.

I don’t agree with this. Everyone should be responsible and capable to look after their own healing and buffing in this game. While there is no trinity in this game, you can be support oriented. That doesn’t mean you can just neglect doing any damage whatsoever. Whatever healing/support skills you have, you will always be waiting on them to cooldown and that is when you should be throwing out some damage.

Yea, this game isnt designed around the holy-MMO-trinity. If a player is buffing/healing and not having time to kill XYZ target, thats a bad player/group IMHO.

Playing a Support(mightStacks, Healing) Guardian, AuraMaster-Ele, …ect doesnt mean I should only focus on the boons/healing that i can do, but I should focus on the goal of killing XYZ mobs, finishing whatever task the group is on, WHILE healing and buffing the party. One thing I like about the boons, they are all almost combat passive. You buff when you are attacking, dodging, running rune synergy(Lyssa+Elite SKill+Sigil that shares your boons = OP IMHO). And I do not feel player should get extra credit based on the boons they hand out or the % of healing they do. As not all classes can play that way (mesmer for example) and it would probably create a rift between classes, that we do not have today.

sirsquishy.8531:

Yea, this game isnt designed around the holy-MMO-trinity. If a player is buffing/healing and not having time to kill XYZ target, thats a bad player/group IMHO.

Playing a Support(mightStacks, Healing) Guardian, AuraMaster-Ele, …ect doesnt mean I should only focus on the boons/healing that i can do, but I should focus on the goal of killing XYZ mobs, finishing whatever task the group is on, WHILE healing and buffing the party. One thing I like about the boons, they are all almost combat passive. You buff when you are attacking, dodging, running rune synergy(Lyssa+Elite SKill+Sigil that shares your boons = OP IMHO). And I do not feel player should get extra credit based on the boons they hand out or the % of healing they do. As not all classes can play that way (mesmer for example) and it would probably create a rift between classes, that we do not have today.

You are the same type of player that cries when I slaughter you because you can’t drag me down thanks to having great support backing me up.

Support is more than healing; it is part healing, part timing fields for others to use, part timing buffs so you get your current target buffed up prior to an unload, part timing cleanses to get rid of the worse effects and just allowing others to go as insubstantial (always allow burn to stay on as it can’t be stacked for damage for example), all of that while adding what damage you can usually through auto attack and a single attack skill that is quick to come off cooldown (guardian scepter fists, guardian staff orb, necro staff blood mark, ele staff glacier, etc…). The supporter isn’t cranking damage skills, they are watching allies around them. A good supporter can take the place of 2 damage dealers by simply makign everything you do to the person in your face like pebbles against a steel wall, while that person in your face is also self healing/cleansing farther removing what you do to them. If you ignore the person in your face to focus ont he supporter, sure you may kill the support but you are also dead nigh every time.

I see it all the time in WvW, the group with more support people wins unless the zerg is just that great in number.

BTW, I suck at total support, I tried (more than just once, took a full month just trying support) my ability to time cleanses sucks horribly as does my ability to manage healing skills for other people’s use. I can be suedo support by using shouts as heals (buffing others while healign myself for example, or buffing myself while healign others as a side effect) I just suck at the timing of cleansing and predicting the time an attack will go off to buff 3 seconds before it.

There is a difference between the psuedo support, and those who go full support and manage to keep 2-3 people moving strong while they add what they can in terms of auto attacks and the occasional attack skill.

I agree with this and iirc this was the way xp was always supposed to work; maybe they couldn’t get it to flag right in game? If someone is helping to keep me up they deserve every bit as much credit as me.

If one traits and gears for support their damage output will drop. It isn’t a stretch for the OP or anyone to want the xp to be distributed better. I can recall a few fights where I was running around reviving people more than fighting and got a bronze for the event. I did do damage but was busy playing support and helping others.
What is the incentive to build for support if you aren’t getting credit even though you are contributing to your party’s success? Spread out the credit fairly and I think you will see even more diversity in builds.

It’s very simple folks, let me spell it out for you.

1. Supportive builds give up alot of damage.

2. Supportive builds spend alot of time not doing damage.

3. Doing damage is the only way to get kill credit.

If you can’t see how this means tons less rewards for anyone rolling a supportive build, even if they are regularly throwing damage, then you simply cannot be reasoned with.

If a guardian anchor can tag mobs, anyone can.

My main is a support guardian, been running it since a month after release. I have no problem tagging and getting credit. 100% of my time is not spent buffing/healing. If you are playing a support build and this is the case, you need to get with better friends or tell them to stop running all berserkers and face tanking damage. I do not see a reason why you cannot buff, heal, and damage. Yes, your damage is significantly cut because you went for support gear/runes/sigils, but that’s your choice. No one needs a support class, everyone is capable of handling and taking care of themselves. And even if they’re not, you are not required to babysit them.

And you only needed to do, what, 5% of the damage? Since the patch didn’t they turn that into basically 3 auto attacks, regardless of the damage gets you credit?

I feel that giving extra incentives for buffing and healing would only entice bots. Press buttons, buff/heal group, auto run, set macro to repeat 1000×.

Correct, you have no problem tagging people if you make sure and go out of your way to tag people. However just in the course of playing your build you will get infinitely less rewards than anyone who is just out there doing damage. Because they are always tagging people while doing what they are built for and you stop tagging people while doing what you are built for.

It’s really not hard logic.

It has nothing to do with logic. I simply cannot fathom how you are playing the game to still be here complaining about support builds after the kill credit update. It’s a couple of auto attacks. I get just as many rewards as a dps class does because while my buffs are up, I press one a few times. My rewards are currently the same as a dps class right now thanks to the update.

What build and class are you playing that you have absolutely no time nor the ability to stop buffing/healing in order to use and AoE to tag?

GuardianOMS.8067:

It has nothing to do with logic. I simply cannot fathom how you are playing the game to still be here complaining about support builds after the kill credit update. It’s a couple of auto attacks. I get just as many rewards as a dps class does because while my buffs are up, I press one a few times. My rewards are currently the same as a dps class right now thanks to the update.

What build and class are you playing that you have absolutely no time nor the ability to stop buffing/healing in order to use and AoE to tag?

I play 18 separate characters and have invested in excess of 875 hours, most of that in WvW where the problem is most pronounced. I can tell you there is a big bag and reward difference between DPS characters and support characters from alot of experience spread across a variety of builds.

Mesmer is definitely a standout when it comes to AOE tagging. Because Mesmer doesn’t exactly have tons of AOE even a DPS mesmer will fall far behind an ele or grenade engineer for example. The reward difference is night and day.

Supportive spec Engineer is another easy example. Most of the regen’s require you to be in close proximity to your allies and only super elixir allows you to heal at range. If you expect to plop down a healing turret and DPS while occasionally slop down a super elixir you are woefully under-utilizing your supportive build. It’s also extremely time intensive to use all my supportive abilities.

And how about Thief? As hated as Thieves are what chance do they have to even compete in tagging without being condition spec? Are you supposed to carry a shortbow at all times and spam on random targets just to get bags?

That’s a few specific examples, lets get more general. Are you supposed to equip AOE no matter what spec you are just to tag? Should my supportive warrior change away from sword/shield and sword/warhorn just to make sure he gets rewarded? Should I make sure that I have AOE utility skills instead of banners, CC, or shouts?

Why should I have to play or build a certain way just to be rewarded if I am being effective? For that matter why shouldn’t the need to “tag” be a red flag right off the bat that things are slightly off?

Badges of Honor need to be a currency like laurels instead of loot, yes. That would be the first fix I’d go for.

If I stack might on someone I don’t think it is fair to siphon off credit for the kill they made but perhaps getting equal credit could be alright.

Hardly siphoning when the extra damage you just gave them made the kill that much easier.

Goatjugsoup.8637:

If I stack might on someone I don’t think it is fair to siphon off credit for the kill they made but perhaps getting equal credit could be alright.

It wouldn’t be siphoning, it would work just like damaging their target. You would both get credit. This game isn’t like WOW where all the ex kitten plit, it’s given to everyone. You can do 10% and get full credit for a kill. Buffing or healing someone so they can do 10% should work the same way.

The only reason I reduce it would be that it would make it too easy to farm bags if it wasn’t reduced. It’s a balancing thing.

-_- I just realised I was thinking of kills in terms of event medals rather than a tick box did you have a hand in its death.
In that case I am fully on board.

GuardianOMS.8067:

It has nothing to do with logic. I simply cannot fathom how you are playing the game to still be here complaining about support builds after the kill credit update. It’s a couple of auto attacks. I get just as many rewards as a dps class does because while my buffs are up, I press one a few times. My rewards are currently the same as a dps class right now thanks to the update.

What build and class are you playing that you have absolutely no time nor the ability to stop buffing/healing in order to use and AoE to tag?

I also might mention you are using, in your example, one of the most effective tagging weapons in the game. Guardian staff at close range.

I’m sorry but every single player in this game has the ability to deal decent amounts of damage even if they are fully specced into support. If you want your loot then start tagging mobs, why should people have to go out and risk their lives to get their kills when a guardian can stand behind a wall and cast a few shouts and get the same rewards? You get rewarded for your risk in combat, not for sitting behind everyone else pressing a few spells when they are off CD, a lot of healing spells deal damage anyway so there really is no excuse. I’ve even got loot bags of hitting a target once while they was down, is it really that hard for support players to press 1 every few seconds while still supporting their group, after all it’s an auto attack so you don’t even have to go out of your way to press it as it’ll automatically do it for you.

I’d also like to point out a “real support” player isn’t someone who just heals their allies, it’s someone who can support them by dealing with their enemies such as CC (which would count towards getting loot). A real support does not cower from a fight and sit at the back throwing out a few heals when needed.

This is like me saying It’s not fair that players with aoe can tag a lot of mobs and get 5 loot bags while I only have single target spells so can only get one. If I cared about my loot bags enough I would make sure that I tag each of the mobs, the same way that any support class can tag targets while they are healing.

But this wouldn’t just affect WvW either, think about how it would impact PvE. I can just see support characters staying out of combat on hard bosses so they don’t die while still getting kill credit from the boss because they threw in a aoe stack of might.

EliteZ.1682:

I’m sorry but every single player in this game has the ability to deal decent amounts of damage even if they are fully specced into support. If you want your loot then start tagging mobs, why should people have to go out and risk their lives to get their kills when a guardian can stand behind a wall and cast a few shouts and get the same rewards? You get rewarded for your risk in combat, not for sitting behind everyone else pressing a few spells when they are off CD, a lot of healing spells deal damage anyway so there really is no excuse. I’ve even got loot bags of hitting a target once while they was down, is it really that hard for support players to press 1 every few seconds while still supporting their group, after all it’s an auto attack so you don’t even have to go out of your way to press it as it’ll automatically do it for you.

I’d also like to point out a “real support” player isn’t someone who just heals their allies, it’s someone who can support them by dealing with their enemies such as CC (which would count towards getting loot). A real support does not cower from a fight and sit at the back throwing out a few heals when needed.

This is like me saying It’s not fair that players with aoe can tag a lot of mobs and get 5 loot bags while I only have single target spells so can only get one. If I cared about my loot bags enough I would make sure that I tag each of the mobs, the same way that any support class can tag targets while they are healing.

But this wouldn’t just affect WvW either, think about how it would impact PvE. I can just see support characters staying out of combat on hard bosses so they don’t die while still getting kill credit from the boss because they threw in a aoe stack of might.

I’m telling you having played all varieties of support, be it full, hybrid, or light, that support hands down earns less bags.

Also, lets flip your argument. I can get rewards by throwing down 1 AOE, why should I not get the rewards by throwing 1 AOE buff? I can easily do a little damage and then stay out of combat in the current system. None of what you say makes sense. You don’t get rewarded for risk. I can easily use the current system to get rewards quite safely with little contribution if I so chose. Long range aoe’s, traps, siege, etc. ALL perfectly viable ways to tag large amounts of people with little to no risk.

Also keep in mind I’m giving reduced rewards and loot chance, not full rewards. Try reading not skimming next time.

Honestly if you really want to get into it, the whole concept of tagging is based around doing the minimum amount of damage necessary to get credit to as many people as possible. It’s the exact opposite of contribution. You are not looking to contribute at all when tagging. Nor are you typically exposing yourself to increased risk unless you are terrible or someone that is screwed over by the current system.