Guild Wars 2

I think adding something like DAOC’s RA’s would encourage people to get out and PvP more. People would have incentive to PvP, winning or losing, for personal gain. We need reasons to skirmish.

I would like to see badges go automatically in your bag as well.

Not when there is a Q in place on how many can WvW at a time. It wouldnt be right to allow the same people to max out and WTFPWN the ponies!

I still think adding realm abilities is a terrible idea.

Any post-level-cap, post-gear-max game-impacting character improvement in this game is, in my opinion, a horrible idea.

If people want to feel superior to others due to what they own, there are plenty of other games they can play. Or they can go max out a credit card at the mall.

Adding Realm Ranks, and making people you know like Jade Quarry [Rank Title] instead of invader, would be an awesome idea.

Adding realm abilities like DAoC would be a terrible, terrible idea. Should I tell you about the time when I (a minstrel with Speed of Sound) and an infiltrator friend stole a relic from 100+ Midgards, or will you just take my word for it?

this goes against areanet’s power -platue philosophy.

/thread

Isnt there already titles once u kill enough people?

Any kind of stat that can be compared or looked at by other players of the same server is a step in the right direction for keeping players playing.

In DAOC there were your total realm points… realm points per week… realm points per death…

There were friendly competitions between players to be the highest in those categories per profession. It was awesome.

Don’t get me wrong, winning is a big deal for a server, but once it is won for the week (or two weeks), what else is there to go out and fight for? Personal goals are a great thing to keep players playing.

I don’t really like the idea of a system of ranking based on kills in WvW. That kind of thing should not be a focus in WvW as it’s more of an objective-based PVP.

However, gaining titles would be cool. I’m also warming up to the idea of special WvW-only abilities, if only because it sucks how some abilities had to be neutered for balance in both PVE and PVP.

I also think they would provide great opportunities for profession-specific abilities that contribute to the fight in different strategic ways. I mean, I feel like it’s kind of unbalanced that Mesmer has portals to provide a huge tactical benefit, but something like Engineer’s mortar is kittened.

Maybe Thieves alone could be allowed to scale walls. To balance this they could perhaps put a server-specific doorway/portal all around the Lord’s room, that only goes down if some door or wall is breached.

This is all just brainstorming, but the basic gist is I think it would be interesting to see profession-specific abilities only gained in WvW and usable only in WvW that bring some new element of strategic or tactical gameplay.

Wow, some of you people are literally… sigh

SPvP is for balance, that is the place to go where you buy the game and can instantly jump in at level 1 and be on an equal playing field with whoever you are fighting.

WvW is NOT built to be perfectly balanced. There are an enormous amount of variables that affect the out come of a given battle. It is an OPEN WORLD simulator. Meaning it is your ACTUAL character vs another players ACTUAL character. It is fair enough that they max everyone to 80.

They pretty much hand you exotics in this game, yet some people still can’t get them.. so at-least that creates SOME unbalance, which I like.

This is an MMO, I don’t know why so many of you people seem to think that ‘putting more time in’ or playing consistently or even playing better than other players should not reward you MORE than players that don’t do that. In SPvP, it needs that balance.. but in an OPEN WORLD RVR setting which is ment for FUN where NUMBERS dictate an enormous % of what happens.. that balance does not exist now and should not exist.

They have created an MMO, but completely failed to add any actual long term character progression into the game. So many of you think adding ‘titles’ or cosmetic rewards is the best thing to do… I say WHY? I don’t want titles or cosmetic upgrades.. they don’t DO anything….. I don’t care if my character model is a blue circle and my title is ‘schoolgirl fairy boy’. It means NOTHING to me, it does not DO anything.

This game needs long term actual character progression that MATTERS. I should be able to watch my character grow over the life of this game… not be done with my warrior a month after release because i am 80 with full exotics.

I don’t care about achievements on STEAM, why would I care about them in this game. I don’t know any adult players, from actual respectable guilds that care about titles or cosmetics. We want long term character progression that actually has an effect on the strength of your character.

A ‘gear treadmill’ creates too much of an unbalance in my opinion and no one likes to have to ‘grind’ the same instances over and over… which is exactly why they should implement a REALM RANK system.. to allow all of us that play WvW to consistently grow our characters.. it will make it more fun for everyone.

Read my thread called ’ intelligently designed realm rank system’.

I explain in further detail why that is a good system. Before you say something negative, read that thread.

“this goes against areanet’s power -platue philosophy.

/thread"- Kitanas

You’re actually completely incorrect. They implemented that philosophy to make it so there is no ‘gear treadmill’ which there is not and most likely will not be. So because they are anti gear treadmill, you assume they don’t want there to be character progression?

Anet has already said " WvW is for fun and is going to be unbalanced, if you want balance go to SPvP."

Celes.9726:

Game will be dead in 6months tops without personal incentives to keep on playing, book it.

I don’t know about 6 months… but you are absolutely correct about this game ‘dying’ without personal long term character progression that is MORE than titles/cosmetics.

Here is why:

Guildwars 2 brought back a great thing… they brought back OPEN WORLD REALM VS REALM! (or Server vs Server in their case ) This is a concept that DAOC sharpened and perfected.. and sadly a concept that most previous big name MMOs seemed to miss.

Seeing as they brought this concept back into the MMO market… which I think is actually the core of a good MMO.. now every new upcoming MMO is pretty much FORCED to have a similar to DAOC.. OPEN WORLD PVP system. Without one, they will just not be able to compete in the market and compete with GW2.

So if the next big upcoming MMOs (Elder Scrolls and Titan) are going to have a similar WvW system.. don’t you think they WILL have some king of long term progression system… perhaps a gear treadmill or Realm Rank system…

Well… they WILL… and if GW2 fails to implement a long term character progression system… once those other games come out.. and the WvW edge is taken away from GW2… most players will leave, because MMOs are about progression.. and gw2 will be left with people that just love cosmetic rewards and then the gw1 vets.. which is a very small % of the mmo population.

One thing all the old DAoC players seem to keep forgetting is this:

GW2 isn’t DAoC.

So — and I ask this as respectfully as possible — please stop trying to make it DAoC. To be frank, the WoW people have been better at restraining their “let’s make GW2 just like WoW!” requests than you lot have.

The game is a month old. You came in, for whatever reason, expecting this game to be DAoC2. You’re now reacting as though you’re surprised it isn’t, and you keep asking for modifications to make it more like DAoC.

There are reasons DAoC maxed out at 250,000 players. Can we please give this game a year or two before you insist we start implementing some of them?

(yes, yes…“the game will be dead long before then!” You’ve already made that plain. There’s no need to repeat it in response to me.)

mcl.9240:

One thing all the old DAoC players seem to keep forgetting is this:

GW2 isn’t DAoC.

So — and I ask this as respectfully as possible — please stop trying to make it DAoC. To be frank, the WoW people have been better at restraining their “let’s make GW2 just like WoW!” requests than you lot have.

The game is a month old. You came in, for whatever reason, expecting this game to be DAoC2. You’re now reacting as though you’re surprised it isn’t, and you keep asking for modifications to make it more like DAoC.

There are reasons DAoC maxed out at 250,000 players. Can we please give this game a year or two before you insist we start implementing some of them?

(yes, yes…“the game will be dead long before then!” You’ve already made that plain. There’s no need to repeat it in response to me.)

Really?

You got I wanted this to be DAoC 2 from my post? I will have 2 of what ever you are on, please.

RP’s and RR’s are what kept people playing DAoC even when they had no hope of getting keeps or relics. There needs to be some kind of personal gain to keep people going.

I play on Sanctum of Rall and once we had a good lead the other teams dropped out. There is no incentive for losing teams to keep going at this point.

(I am guessing you never got to play DAoC pre-ToA and are bitter)

Thanks,
Schoolgirl Fairy Boy, Esq

I know the title of this is ‘like DAOC’…. and people tend to reference DAOC when talking about an end game progression system that isn’t mere titles/achievements.

But we don’t want to turn this game into DAOC2, we just want some end game progression and a realm ranking system is a really good way to implement that.

There are not that many logical ways to have end game progression.. You can have a gear treadmill, which is highly favored to people that have a ton of time… you have titles and cosmetics which i don’t think counts as progression.. and then you have a realm ranking system which is a bit less focused on time than a gear treadmill and does not lead to such an enormous power gap between players.. and it is more fun than farming instances over and over for ‘hard to get’ gear.

mcl.9240:

One thing all the old DAoC players seem to keep forgetting is this:

GW2 isn’t DAoC.

So — and I ask this as respectfully as possible — please stop trying to make it DAoC. To be frank, the WoW people have been better at restraining their “let’s make GW2 just like WoW!” requests than you lot have.

The game is a month old. You came in, for whatever reason, expecting this game to be DAoC2. You’re now reacting as though you’re surprised it isn’t, and you keep asking for modifications to make it more like DAoC.

There are reasons DAoC maxed out at 250,000 players. Can we please give this game a year or two before you insist we start implementing some of them?

(yes, yes…“the game will be dead long before then!” You’ve already made that plain. There’s no need to repeat it in response to me.)

250K is pretty good in 2001-2002 in the mmorpg genre, don’t ya think?

And good enough to kill EQ, the only real game besides wow that killed anything. Wow Killed off daoc, and Daoc killed off EQ..That’s the only 2 “mmo” kills ever, and that’s a fact.

So for a game like daoc to kill the holy grail of pve, they had to do something right. Daoc in itself is perfect, it’s graphics are outdated and it’s been done already. With newly thought up ideas and such arenanet has the option to make a beautiful “RVR” game that will go on for years..11 years later, people still want a game like daoc. Why? Because it was friggin awesome.

Why else would Arenanet steal the entire “rvr” idea from them complete with 3 factions ? Additionally, they stole the daoc “Relics” which aka orbs in this game, in daoc it wasn’t housed inside keeps, oh wait? YES IT WAS… ON ANDRED/MORDRED special ffa pvp servers you could put relics inside keeps.. JUST LIKE YOU CAN in GW2.

So what’s wrong with us wanting more daoc when they blatantly ripped “ALMOST” everything from daoc ?

Here we go again. Two things killed DAOCs growth; ToA and Top Heavy RvR. WoW didn’t kill DAOC, ToA killed it, top heavy RvR prevented it from recovering.

A ‘rich gets richer’ approach to RvR\PvP rewards never helped an MMO to date. Shutting out new players is never a good idea and keeping the disparity between new and established players to a minimum is important. RAs weren’t a good idea, neither were MLs and certainly artifacts were a bad idea also.

I agree, there needs to be more incentive to go out into WvW i feel like when i go out there i’m just wasting time when it personally feels more productive to create another alt.

However realm abilities/skills might be a good idea but i think something along the lines of WvW traits to be unlocked, traits that help in WvW but not add such an advantage as a player as a whole.

One trait for example could be like 5 points into siegemaster line, the siege you place using your own blueprints have 10-20% more health. A few more examples carry more supply, build/repair faster, 20% more run speed in WvW when out of combat, more karma/exp points (PvE & WvW benefit).

It doesn’t need to exactly be actual skills i’d be fine knowing i actually have something to look forward to. We could even have a system where every 10 ranks you unlock new armor/weapon skins sort of like the way sPvP works.

Any input on my thoughts?

^Yes. Lots of things could be added that wouldn’t affect outcomes but would still give people a goal to work towards.

Unique finishing moves.

Cosmetic Gear (and ranger pets. where’s my griffon anet??)

Different animations, e.g. could make trebuchets fire giant flaming screaming skulls, or glitter bombs, or something, instead of flaming rocks.

Titles.

I agree an AA system is needed to keep players interested long-term. Not so much to be more powerful than new players but to show off with Skins, titles, unique weapons, unique siege… etc saying…

“I’ve been out here for awhile, you should be scared of me”

Instead of what is now… “i ran CoF 30 times this week”

Cosmetic changes isn’t the answer. Nobody cares about that, i won’t have a legendary.Why? Because #1 not worth the effort to look cool, when i can roll you with my crafted exotic sword instead

forthegz.5814:

“this goes against areanet’s power -platue philosophy.

/thread"- Kitanas

You’re actually completely incorrect. They implemented that philosophy to make it so there is no ‘gear treadmill’ which there is not and most likely will not be. So because they are anti gear treadmill, you assume they don’t want there to be character progression?

Anet has already said " WvW is for fun and is going to be unbalanced, if you want balance go to SPvP."

Oh, so I guess you missed the parts about “power plateau” and “reaching max power relatively easily”. they specifically said that there would be no long term power progression.

I’m not asking for balance: I know that’s impssible. I am disputing this on the above basis.

forthegz.5814:

They have created an MMO, but completely failed to add any actual long term character progression into the game. So many of you think adding ‘titles’ or cosmetic rewards is the best thing to do… I say WHY? I don’t want titles or cosmetic upgrades.. they don’t DO anything….. I don’t care if my character model is a blue circle and my title is ‘schoolgirl fairy boy’. It means NOTHING to me, it does not DO anything.

not failed miserably. it was a deliberate choice to not include it.

forthegz.5814:

This is an MMO, I don’t know why so many of you people seem to think that ‘putting more time in’ or playing consistently or even playing better than other players should not reward you MORE than players that don’t do that. In SPvP, it needs that balance.. but in an OPEN WORLD RVR setting which is ment for FUN where NUMBERS dictate an enormous % of what happens.. that balance does not exist now and should not exist.

Did you watch the manifesto video? if not, no problem, hear it is:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FU1JUwPqzQY

don’t fell like watching it? OK, I can understand. My point is that inside of a minuet, indeed, some of the first things they say, are:question everything" and “defy convention” And tyou are claiming that this is needed because it is CONVENTIONAL for MMO’s to have long term progression grind?

This just in, the game is boring.

That is all.

Please expand WvW before everyone quits… people are already leaving in droves

I loved DAOC, flaws and all, still do. But I’m not wanting GW2 to be DAOC2. That said, GW2’s WvW badly needs some kind of personal incentives / objectives / purpose. The fighting for your server in the weekly ladder thing only goes so far. Players need some kind of personal progression. It doesn’t have to be realm points and it shouldn’t be gear. But it needs to be something. I’m sure Anet can come up with something unique to GW2.

But before they add any kind of progression they need to find a way to remove the queues. You can’t have personal progression if a hardcore of players permanently live in the WvW zones and make it difficult for others to get in. And of course removing the queues will cause performance issues, which have already reared their heads. They need to work on this so everyone can play, lag free, in larger numbers than at present and without all the culling and invisibility issues we currently have. If they can’t then I don’t see much future in WvW.

im so totally fine with having extra power from ranks, but some other options would be:

Ranks including titles
Different gear skins at each major rank
More skills or elite skills unlocking. (its not power, just versatility)
availability to deploy mobile way points or spawn points like aion.

and if you wanted to go power:
+talent points for ranking up.
add a realm ability slot
have the whole realm rank tree/trait system.

But yea there REALLY need to be a player incentive to continue PvPing.

You know what WvWvW needs? The ability to read an invader’s name. Make things personal!

Rawkzter.2160:

You know what WvWvW needs? The ability to read an invader’s name. Make things personal!

needs killspam too, so i can be that guy again.

Agreed with Rawkzter and SKYeXile^^

but yeah… on the main subject here… I don’t care if it’s DAoC’s system, or whatever it may be. but it ‘has’ to be something, and not gear. There needs to be some form of character progression that gives people reason to grow their character.

Also, wanted to point to correct what someone about said about RA system making it ‘kill’ based. It’s not, you’d get alot of points for healing, defending, attacking…. etc etc. And u couldnt mop up a buncha points from zerging either, because if u out numbered them and won, u got diminished returns on realm points. Vice Versa, if the out numbered side came out on top from skill/tactics, they’d get more.

If GW2 had a similiar system, I’d imagine you could get points for nearly anything, dropping siege… using supply… killing… healing, etc…

Rawkzter.2160:

You know what WvWvW needs? The ability to read an invader’s name. Make things personal!

I’d settle for being able to actually see the enemy invaders at the moment

Cernow.3974:

Rawkzter.2160:

You know what WvWvW needs? The ability to read an invader’s name. Make things personal!

I’d settle for being able to actually see the enemy invaders at the moment

In sPvP they already have kill spam and names. Couldn’t be that hard to add to WvW. Yeah… killin 4 people solo and having no one know about it is really lame

Balidore.2790:

Agreed with Rawkzter and SKYeXile^^

but yeah… on the main subject here… I don’t care if it’s DAoC’s system, or whatever it may be. but it ‘has’ to be something, and not gear. There needs to be some form of character progression that gives people reason to grow their character.

Also, wanted to point to correct what someone about said about RA system making it ‘kill’ based. It’s not, you’d get alot of points for healing, defending, attacking…. etc etc. And u couldnt mop up a buncha points from zerging either, because if u out numbered them and won, u got diminished returns on realm points. Vice Versa, if the out numbered side came out on top from skill/tactics, they’d get more.

If GW2 had a similiar system, I’d imagine you could get points for nearly anything, dropping siege… using supply… killing… healing, etc…

i think its fine if you do get points for doing everything, but the majorty of points should come from kills. and it should be no everybody gets full credit for a kill…it should be a fixed amount and whoever gets credit on them should then split it. so if you zerg 1 guy with 100 people you get (say he’s worth 100) 1 point each. dont want to encourage zerging. there should be an incentive to zergbust people with a small group.

The renown i would have brought in last night, o, m, g.

RAs, unless they are purely cosmetic, become a barrier of entry for new players.

There are already a ton of posts complaining about orbs because they make strong teams even stronger. RAs have the exact same effect but on an individual level.

Player vs player scenarios are supposed to be about skill, not gear/time/etc.

I know what you’re saying Tzash, but RA’s arn’t game breaking advantages. They’re just little things like…. +3% to crit dmg :/ +40 power… etc… Little things that take a long time to get.

RR stat and ability increases are identical to a gear treadmill without the gear. There needs to be an end point where players are on equal footing. This is exotic gear and it’s already in game. If players were any more powerful than an 80 in full exotics this game would become niche and lose a ton of people.

WvW specific titles and non-statistic or skill based progression is fine, anything that increases power factor beyond the current game is bad.

I had exact conversation with several people I normally play games with, we played wow, age of conan, rift, warhammer online, eve online etc (you get the idea) and out of approximately 30 people on my friends list, only 3 people are active.

Reason? Almost everyone unanimously agreed that WvW incentive is lacking. If we are to die dozens, if not hundreds of times to defend our homeland, our reward is large repair bill at the end.

Some of us still play WvW just because we miss RvR from Daoc but even for us it’s getting tiresome (yes we all have 1000+ badges sitting in our inventory doing nothing).

WvW isn’t meant to be fair, if ANet wanted it that way, it would work EXACTLY like spvp in terms of gear so please don’t bring this “+1 power” on player X is unfair for putting in lots of hours in WvW. Barrier for new players? gap between <80 and 80 in full exotic is huge difference already.

tl;dr ANet needs to implement some meaningful reward for WvW players

I like your Idea about Daoc RA ^^. In addition, people who want to play in equal ground should play browser PvP as intended by Anet ^^.

So what happens when you have all these realm ranks and there’s nothing left to work for? Wouldn’t you find WvWvW now not only boring, but unfair too?

It took years to achieve maximum RR.

If WvW wasn’t meant to be fair then why do level 2 players get bolstered to 80?
I’m not against some additional form of progression, I’m just against a specific portion of progression working like AoCs AA, Warhammers RR 80-100, Rifts PA, DAOC RR that is just another arms race that will completely negate a new player wanting to participate. Come up with a system that doesn’t make a top tiered RR player indestructible against a fresh 80 in masterwork gear and you might be onto something. Regurgitating a past mechanic from a dead game is not the answer.

People that want to PWN No0bs have plenty of MMOs to choose from.

Guys guys… I keep seeing this pop up.. and honestly as you can probably see by some of my previous posts, i THOUGHT progression or Realm Ranks was the thing that Gw2 needed… I was wrong.. here is the real problem..

Map Size/ Map Design..

The objectives are TOO FEW and too close together.. the maps with current populations allow for 1 zerg to roam around controlling the map only until another zerg gathers to fight them. Eternal Battlegrounds has the correct design, but is WAY too small.. and ‘The Borderlands’ is literally a joke… talk about narrowing and controlling our game-play. The ocean in the middle creates 2 lanes that forces players almost literally to zerg the same keeps over and over.

What Anet failed to do is this:
1. Understand why open world pvp was something everyone wanted..
2. Understand why Open world pvp worked so well in DAoC…

Anet said that they ‘were inspired by DAoC and studied their RvR’… well after seeing what they’ve delivered.. I have no idea what they were ‘studying’ and I’m certain they have no understanding of 1 or 2.

The explanation for 1 and 2 are actually exactly the same..

Open world PvP is fun.. because it is UNIQUE and at times random.. Every battle should be a little bit different than the last.. and when you run out with your group/guild into the BIG OPEN WORLD ZONE you don’t already know what is going to happen… It allows for PLAYER DRIVEN interactions and player CHOICE…

DAoC was not so successful and loved because of Realm Ranks, or 3 different factions or 45 unique classes…. DAoC’s Open World RvR was successful and loved because it had proper MAP DESIGN, plain and simple. The open world zones were HUGE.. and the objectives were SPREAD APART.. this made it so every day/week was different and unique.. Also and almost more importantly.. 1 zerg couldn’t roam around the entire map controlling everything until another zerg kills them…

The saddest thing about this is…. Anet KNEW that these maps were WAY TOO SMALL… they made it like that on purpose to encourage ZERGING and to force players to have ‘epic siege battles’ at the same keeps in the same way every week.

This means Anet LOOKED AT DAoC.. and thought…. mhmmm people really liked this BECAUSE THEY LOVE ZERGING. Lets make a game about zerging.

That is what happens when.. developers that don’t understand why a concept was liked or popular try to copy it. They stole a lot from DAoC… but they missed what made it successful.. open world pvp adventure. They turned Open World triple faction warfare….. into a very choreographed instance. face palm.

This is what happens when noobs make video games… they miss important concepts, and fail. GL selling ‘zerg wars 2’.

Maybe bioware mythic will make DAOC 2, i’d pay $25 a month for it.

Xsorus.2507

In closing, your grasp of history concerning DAOC is pretty much wrong on every level, Do not, I repeat Do not comment on DAOC and its development in any given future, You are clearly not qualified to discuss that topic.

Neither are you apparently. ;p

DaoC’s decline was gradual, it never suffered any sort of massive sudden deathblow from WoW. ToA did in essence kill DaoC by introducing a brutal power grind and a set of top heavy I Win abilities and items as rewards. Hence when they launched ToA free classic servers they quickly became the most popular.

ToA required massive coordinated efforts and unspeakable time sinks and tipped the whole game as a result. It also tied PvE grinding directly to RvR advancement which kitten lots of people off. RvR degraded into a matter of who had what RA / Master Level / Artifact abilities up. There were several abilities and artifacts that could literally automatically win a fight ( lawl Forceful Zephyr ~ ) and others that were so powerful they became required ( Bodyguard ).

Most fundamentally required pvp functions were also RA’s ( Purge, Ignore Pain, Determination, Charge, etc ) and hitting the higher RRs wasn’t easy unless you had a dedicated guild group or just zerged all the time for a handful of rpz here and there. Mixed with ToA it made for one kitten of a barrier to entry and I imagine turned off quite a few new players in its day.

So no, GW2 doesn’t need RAs. Display ranks ala DaoC would be nice however as would any manner of earnable aesthetic modifications.

Yeah… So I actually played DAoC for many yrs… and both ur stories r right, just in different ways, lol.
Ok… so here it is. DAoC started to die upon EA buying out DAoC, and releasing that absolutely terrible ToA expansion… ‘but’ they left 3 ‘classic’ servers. On the classic servers, it was the original game without the ToA expansion. These 3 servers easily made up 10x (no exaggeration, honestly) of the entire DAoC gaming community, because ToA was horrible. When warhammer came out, people were already looking for a new game, because there was talk of taking out the classic servers, bacause EA wanted to be ‘right.’ Warhammer was bad, so everyone came back to DAoC, then WoW came out, it was pve, so most didn’t like that either, and came back. About 3 weeks after the release of WoW, EA finally decided they would mix all the servers in to 1 server, and they did, and even though classic had 10x the population… they made the 1 and only server a ToA one, and the game died completely.

The original core mechanics of DAoC, are all that matters. They were the good parts… but it doesn’t matter, cuz this is GW2, it’s a little different, and different things will prolly workj better. Long story short…. we need pvp type char progression of sort to make us wanna stay and have something to look forward to. The DAoC RR idea, is a good starting point.

Balidore.2790

Ok… so here it is. DAoC started to die upon EA buying out DAoC, and releasing that absolutely terrible ToA expansion

EA didn’t buy out Mythic until 2006. ToA was released 2003.

Balidore.2790

Warhammer was bad, so everyone came back to DAoC, then WoW came out, it was pve, so most didn’t like that either, and came back.

Warhammer came out in 2008. WoW was launched 2004.

Us DAOC players came to gw2 as it was hyped up to be similar to daoc… which it is!

IMO whats holding anet back is all the carebears saying " i cant play the game 40 hours a week like X does so he shouldnt beable to be better than me QQ"

Well i dont play 40 hours a week, i still want players to be better than me! if someone has worked hard getting a high rank then good on them!! get more people and go smash him up!

Also to the people moaning that daoc failed due to rr progression you are wrong… plain and simple!!!! Me and 7 guild mates pl’ed a group setup, got them all geared, went into big boy rvr at rr1… and got 30k rps/ hour consitantly!!

TACTICS win games not one guy who is high rank.. stop thinking that better is worse and you may get better yourself

Xhaiden.3891:

Balidore.2790

Ok… so here it is. DAoC started to die upon EA buying out DAoC, and releasing that absolutely terrible ToA expansion

EA didn’t buy out Mythic until 2006. ToA was released 2003.

Balidore.2790

Warhammer was bad, so everyone came back to DAoC, then WoW came out, it was pve, so most didn’t like that either, and came back.

Warhammer came out in 2008. WoW was launched 2004.

Yeah. Got it backwards. Same thing though, just switch the names around, lol.

Scilly.9315:

Us DAOC players came to gw2 as it was hyped up to be similar to daoc… which it is!

IMO whats holding anet back is all the carebears saying " i cant play the game 40 hours a week like X does so he shouldnt beable to be better than me QQ"

Well i dont play 40 hours a week, i still want players to be better than me! if someone has worked hard getting a high rank then good on them!! get more people and go smash him up!

Also to the people moaning that daoc failed due to rr progression you are wrong… plain and simple!!!! Me and 7 guild mates pl’ed a group setup, got them all geared, went into big boy rvr at rr1… and got 30k rps/ hour consitantly!!

TACTICS win games not one guy who is high rank.. stop thinking that better is worse and you may get better yourself

^^^I went rr1 to rr9 solo. There was nothing op or gamebreaking about rr. Was just fun to achieve.

what people forget is that daoc IS the best test of player skill in any mmo ever created.. u can have all the gear, all the skills and all the realm ranks…. but if you dont know your class or your naturally a bad player ( like i am ) you will suck and die….

DAOC is probably the only game that ever did it right though. Age of Conans Alternate advancement was game breaking, Warhammer Online was okay because you gained RR from level 1, Rifts Planar advancement was horrible. I could deal with Daoc/war style RR if it started at level 1 like WAR so new players could compete.

This is not DAOC. Neither is it Warhammer. This is GW2. If you want DAOC or Warhammer RvR system, along with its Realm Abilitys and Renown Ranks in place, then you know which games you should play. If you feel you have no incentive to WvW because it lacks RA and RR, then feel free to leave. These features are completely against new players who would feel they have to grind their way up RR to be of any use. Look at how badly Warhammer failed. No new player wants to farm 80 RR ranks. Most old players aren’t willing to make a new character and farm 80 RR ranks again.

I’m perfectly happy with how the system is right now, and don’t need any sort of further rewards other than the FUN of organised large scale battle and seeing superior numbers fall to my organised party/squad/warband doing flanking manoeuvres or surgical strikes to take out catapults and trebuchets. And if my action helps my server hold on to points and win the weekly match up to move up in ranks, that’s just icing.

As for DAOC being the best test of player skills, you obviously never played an interrupt ranger or PD mesmer being told to focus on a prot monk in GvG/HA.

Scilly.9315:

So 2 classes in a game make a game the best test on player skill? nope

Where did I say anything about a game being the best test on player skill? That’s right I didn’t. What I did was point out DAOC was not ‘the best test of player skills’ since there are other games and classes out there that require more skill to excel at.

Scilly.9315:

your first paragraph is the normal block of text that means absoultey nothing…. we dont play daoc as its 11 years old… we dont play war cause it flopped big time!

GW2’s WvWvW was advertised by ANET!!! as similaur to DAOC so dont come in here saying " if you wanna play daoc go play it" its a bs argument.

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Please read what you just said. ‘as similaur to DAOC’. That’s right, similar.

Definition of similar from a quick google: ‘Having a resemblance in appearance, character, or quantity, without being identical’.

There you go. Never once did Anet said they are going to make an exact copy of DAOC system. Instead, they brought their own twist and ideas to GW2, which I’m more than happy to play with. It’s your own fault for thinking GW2 is actually DAOC2. It’s not. My statement stands, if you’re unhappy, go back to DAOC.

Scilly.9315:

everyone agaisnt it always says “what about the new players” IMO F**k them… what about us??? we have already paid for it.. we already bought into the product.. the dream.. we leveled.. we got geared… we get left to the trash heap so the new guys can come along and think how awesome they are?

Its called balancing.. WAR rr was flawed from the begining.. daoc rr although some consider it a disadvantage is the ideal setup for any end game rvr.. rr13 took 9 years YES 9 YEARS for ONE person to achieve!

Your argument may hold some water if GW2 is a sub based game. Unfortunately for you, it’s not. It is b2p, which means each and every player in GW2 is worth the same regardless of the account age. In fact, one might put forth that new players are worth more since they are more likely to buy gems to expand their bank slots, or character limit. Your attempt at sarcasm could be used against you as well. You want RA and RR so you can pwnz noobs and feel how awesome you are?

So what if RR13 took 9 years to achieve. That in itself is a major design fault, as it only introduce a nigh endless grind, and grinding is something Anet is trying to avoid as much as possible, as stated numerous time. Feel free to look at other MMOs if you are so in love with grinds, most of them are full of it.

Scilly.9315:

you need to give people the progression to get there teeth stuck into and even if you are on the bottom server with no camps or keeps u can still go out there get some kills and move yourself towards your next rank up. It shouldnt take everyone 6 days or 6 months to get max rr it should take years and years and years… thats called end game

PS. Also if you happy with the game the way it is now whats the problem with giving people more progression? you can still do what you want to do.

No, I disagree. There is absolutely no need to introduce any kind of ‘end game progression’ whatsoever in WvW. WvW rewards you with fun. The point of the game, especially GW2 is to have fun. If you introduce RR or a similar concept, then it will turn from having fun to grinding RR up to stay competitive in game. Then it will become work. Look at Diablo 3 Inferno pre-nerf (or even it’s current form if you like). Grinding to get a few pieces of upgrades so you can move on to the next area and hit another brick wall is never fun. Neither is going up against an invader not only in full exotics but also with high RR or RA abilities.

And for argument sake, what happened when you finally reach cap? What happened to all those RR80 in Warhammer? What happened to your RR13 in DAOC? They quit. They finally rejoice at hitting cap since they can finally stop grinding renown and afking in forts or waiting 1 hour for a scenario to pop only to leave when they see the opposing team is a premade. Why do you think Mythic raised the RR cap to 100? So the grind doesnt stop.

There is no need for any sort of ‘ranking progression’. It is nothing more than an kitten measuring tool, and I do not want to see the return of ‘R8+ group lfm, wolf for inv’ chat spam.