Guild Wars 2

If the content isn’t made to be skipped, why is such a large amount of content skipable, and why have they never done anything about it?

I don’t see fighting in Jumping Puzzle, why does that come up so often? I do, however, see Puzzle, and it seems to me that a direct route from beginning to end is a nice way to solve a puzzle.

No one will ever be equal. You have a very skewed concept of equality.

I’ve been rewarded many many times in this game for things I didn’t even know were happening, let alone that I was participating in.

How much effort is really involved in getting mats now? Why is it bothering you that everyone would have easy access to a new max tier?

If you’re not afraid they will get better than you, or even as good at you, why do you care at all?

I don’t follow this one. Are we talking about the Harpies? Yeah, I have seen a lot of groups screwed because of people with crap connections and skills who couldn’t handle the jumps. This won’t change anything, they still will have the same disadvantages they did before.

I know I felt proud when I got the achievement kills with a longbow, considering my main is a Longbow Ranger… oh wait, I didn’t even notice it. Risen, I was proud when I’d killed the requisite number of Risen… no I missed that one too. Most achievements don’t mean anything.

I love JPs. The only reason people say they’re boring is because they can’t do them for whatever reason. I guarantee you that things you can’t do are pretty kitten ed boring.

What looks, skins and skills are gated behind Jumping Puzzles? I suppose there might be new looks involved with the ascended gear, but since JPs aren’t the only source of mats that’s not the case. So I’m lost at how this is an argument for anything.

Jumping is an activity. Jumping puzzles are an advanced level of that activity requiring skills that are rarely ever used anywhere else in the game.

Compeletionist is also a factor. People who NEED to have that achievement cleared up but really have no other way to get it. Also people are trying to clear out their Dailies and don’t want to be forced into WvW to do it based on what the rotation is that day.

The insignificant difference in stats between each set of gear proffers no legitimate advantage to anyone in WvW.

Easy Precoursers lowers the price. That’s a good thing. It makes them more available to those that want them without having a significant impact on the effort necessary to make a Legendary since currently RNG or rediculous amounts of gold are the only way. The economy is already trash and pretty stupid, so all the better.

aeneq.1760:

The mats are moot, noone is going to have a mesmer porting people up at JPs all the time, this is most likely for specific times only. Thus they usually get one stab at the chest for the mats and that not something to be worried about (if they want to repeat it when the JP isnt “popular” anymore theyd have to jump it).

Heck the T7 mats is actually forcing these people to jump to get the reward

The issue is that you actually get an achievement for not doing anything which cheapens the achievement in itself. However since there is nothing related to these achievement points (like a title) it doesnt really matter…

Actually there is a title for achievement points. But anyway, I like your reply.
They aren’t forced to jump though, because these things are available elsewhere (for more effort).

@Merujsy

Consider this. For a mesmer to make any impact on Tier 7 mats “with no effort” or other rewards that could possibly drop from that chest the mesmer HAS to run that jump puzzle from the start to the end. They cannot just portal themselves directly to the chest.

So that mesmer may offer a port to a couple of friends but since that mesmer has already ran the JP and has already gotten the rewards they will not stick around waiting for people to show up to “port” them to the end reward. When I am at the end of a JP with my mesmer I will offer in chat a port to anyone that is having difficulty with the puzzle, who is getting frustrated, etc. out of courtesy but I will not hang around any longer then 5 minutes before moving on.

Mesmers and portals have been in jump puzzles all along and to date it has made no impact on the game whatsoever. The inclusion of the possibility of Tier 7 mats in those chests is not going to change that fact. You still have to find and convince that mesmer to run the JP and then to stick around long enough to port you up. It is not as game breaking as you and others want to make it out to be.

It may be more prevalent at the onset but no mesmer I know would be willing to run the same JP every day just to portal someone else to the end. I know I would not. In fact unless there is a kite or some other new achievement put into a jp after I have ran it I will not do a JP more then once.

“How does it affect YOU? It doesn’t, so it doesn’t matter.”

If you apply that logic to the problem of portaling through JPs, what’s to stop you from applying it to every single aspect of the game? There’s nothing special about JPs that warrants some kind of special exemption, so if you say you should be allowed to skip them, because it doesn’t take anything from other players, then you could say that about the entire game too.

• Don’t like running dungeons to get the weapons/armor? Just give them to players who don’t want to run the dungeons, its not like its taking anything from anyone else, so what does it matter?
• Don’t like exploring the world to get the gift of exploration? Just give it to players who don’t like exploring, its not like its taking anything from anyone else, so what does it matter?
• Don’t like killing world bosses to get guaranteed rares? Just give them to players who don’t like killing world bosses, its not like its taking anything from anyone else, so what does it matter?
• Don’t like working up the gold to buy high level gear? Just give them soulbound to players who don’t like earning money, its not like its taking anything from anyone else, so what does it matter?
• Don’t like all the endless farming required for a legendary? Just give them soulbound to players who don’t like farming, its not taking anything from anyone else, so what does it matter?

And you can’t say “Anet obviously doesn’t mind people not doing content but getting rewarded for it” just because there are other areas of the game that have this same quality" because that is what this thread is TRYING TO CHANGE. I have a difficult time understanding why any sensible person would be opposed to making it so you have to DO CONTENT to GET REWARDS. Its baffling to me. What kind of games do you usually play? Those farmville type games where all you have to do is click on kitten to win?

Psycho Robot.7835:

“How does it affect YOU? It doesn’t, so it doesn’t matter.”

What kind of games do you usually play? Those farmville type games where all you have to do is click on kitten to win?

I could ask you this question in return. What type of game do you usually play? Someone else’s or your own?

Are you seriously suggesting that by playing the game as intended, I’m letting Anet kitten slap me into submission? I elect to play this game, and if I elect to play it, then I should expect to actually PLAY IT.

Kal Spiro.9745:

Too much text

They are trying to make dungeons for example, less skipable. As seen in patch notes.

WvW puzzles, pve puzzles with monsters or whatever hostile creatures (did you really do them all?)

No one will be equal, Well said, Clap clap, but sadly you can make equal chances for everyone.

It doesn’t really bother me, but seeing as you are aware of people complaining all the time, I don’t see how it’ll be different now.

I said I didn’t care about the argument and still you used it and asked me? Read it all without instant putting down what is said.

Yes, practise will improve people. Most achievements have a low value, but points give info about someones experience/knowledge, if he did it all himself in the first place.

If things get boring because you can’t do them, that is too bad. No one forces you to do it. No challenges doesn’t make a game at all. (that’s why we suddenly see the gauntlet and it was epic)

Living story things like the tentacle sclerite thing and all those things. You needed to complete certain JP’s to obtain these. But many people have them and it lost its value.

Jumping can be used anywhere and is used in many things.

Completionist is a new one. I am one myself. And I am only one because I like achieving. Oh wait portals don’t make you achieve a thing.

When roaming solo it does give an advantage to have better armor. That extra health may keep you alive, that extra damage may kill him slightly faster saving your own life.

Economy, great prices will drop. But having a precursor would also lose its value. It would be like: Look another one with a precursor. Too easy to obtain and he probably didn’t do much of an effort.

And I so love Psycho Robot’s replies. Hits so hard and is correct.

And as for the quoted one. I checked some other topics. Only negative replies with easy to use arguments that don’t hold any value.

Psycho Robot.7835:

Are you seriously suggesting that by playing the game as intended, I’m letting Anet kitten slap me into submission? I elect to play this game, and if I elect to play it, then I should expect to actually PLAY IT.

Then you play it and quit worrying yourself into a frenzy on how others play it. Is that that difficult to understand? Mesmers to date have made no impact whatsoever on the game in regards to jump puzzles and portals. They will make no impact on the game in the future. Quit tilting at windmills.

Theftwind.8976:

Psycho Robot.7835:

Are you seriously suggesting that by playing the game as intended, I’m letting Anet kitten slap me into submission? I elect to play this game, and if I elect to play it, then I should expect to actually PLAY IT.

Then you play it and quit worrying yourself into a frenzy on how others play it. Is that that difficult to understand? Mesmers to date have made no impact whatsoever on the game in regards to jump puzzles and portals. They will make no impact on the game in the future. Quit tilting at windmills.

No they haven’t, because JPs are 100% useless right now, but in the future they will award T7 mats, and that is where the problem comes in.

Psycho Robot.7835:

Are you seriously suggesting that by playing the game as intended, I’m letting Anet kitten slap me into submission? I elect to play this game, and if I elect to play it, then I should expect to actually PLAY IT.

I suggest to leave them blabbering because they don’t gave much constructive argument.
Always negative and don’t even try to change the suggestion. Even though there is an optional LESS REWARD one.

Don’t get too angry about it. They ask you the same thing back because they can’t answer it because you are right.

I ain’t even mad. I’m having fun. Its like shooting fish in a barrel, or playing whack-a-logical-fallacy

Psycho Robot.7835:

No they haven’t, because JPs are 100% useless right now, but in the future they will award T7 mats, and that is where the problem comes in.

It will not. As I explained quite clearly in the other thread no mesmer is going to want to run a jump puzzle just to port other people up to the end on a frequent enough basis to make any impact on your Tier 7 mats. You are creating a problem where none exists and IF by chance that should happen in the future then deal with it when it does happen but I would lay odds right now that it will not.

Play your own way and mind your own business. Your success is not contingent on the failure or success of others. It is an MMO DESIGNED for cooperative play. If you don’t desire to cooperate to help others, then don’t, but don’t try to impose your style of play on others. By the way, do you rez other players?

LizLemon.7843:

Play your own way and mind your own business. Your success is not contingent on the failure or success of others. It is an MMO DESIGNED for cooperative play. If you don’t desire to cooperate to help others, then don’t, but don’t try to impose your style of play on others. By the way, do you rez other players?

Cooperation doesn’t happen with portalling in JP’s. One does the job and the other gets a reward.

And yes, I ress other people. And it doesn’t have anything to do with it.

I only smell people who lose their effortless daily and free items. Greed. Greed everywhere.

Merujsy.6283:

LizLemon.7843:

Play your own way and mind your own business. Your success is not contingent on the failure or success of others. It is an MMO DESIGNED for cooperative play. If you don’t desire to cooperate to help others, then don’t, but don’t try to impose your style of play on others. By the way, do you rez other players?

Cooperation doesn’t happen with portalling in JP’s. One does the job and the other gets a reward.

And yes, I ress other people. And it doesn’t have anything to do with it.

I only smell people who lose their effortless daily and free items. Greed. Greed everywhere.

Stop smelling people then.

Merujsy.6283:

I only smell people who lose their effortless daily and free items. Greed. Greed everywhere.

Psycho has already agreed that to date mesmers and portals have made no impact on the game. I have pointed out why mesmers and portals in jps will not have an impact on the game in the future. How does greed play into this at all? Greed is a personal vice and for greed to make a play you would have to convince a mesmer that it is in their best interests to run the jump puzzle in order for them to port you to the end. The mesmer would therefore be altruistic would he not? He is doing something for nothing in order to assist someone else.

Once again how many mesmers are going to want to devote 20 minutes to run one JP and sit and port people up for nothing? And if they do and they port 4 or 5 people up what impact will that have on you?

Theftwind.8976:

Merujsy.6283:

I only smell people who lose their effortless daily and free items. Greed. Greed everywhere.

Psycho has already agreed that to date mesmers and portals have made no impact on the game. I have pointed out why mesmers and portals in jps will not have an impact on the game in the future. How does greed play into this at all? Greed is a personal vice and for greed to make a play you would have to convince a mesmer that it is in their best interests to run the jump puzzle in order for them to port you to the end. The mesmer would therefore be altruistic would he not? He is doing something for nothing in order to assist someone else.

Once again how many mesmers are going to want to devote 20 minutes to run one JP and sit and port people up for nothing? And if they do and they port 4 or 5 people up what impact will that have on you?

You only ask questions and only have 1 possible acceptable answer for yourself.

People can pay other to do their work. I guess this can be fine, but great that you get everything in that case, great that you get everything by just throwing money at it.

And currently it doesn’t impact. Great that you get that. And also great that you get that this is something for the future.

And best thing of all is that you didn’t read everything. Skins are valuable because they are rare. And guess what, some skins required achievements that involved JP’s.

Personally I would like this nice suggestion on reddit (link in first post) even more. Sent back to the beginning of a puzzle after reward is taken. No alt parking. And actual effort in order to progress.

Everything is said, I keep repeating and it gets skipped. And you keep asking the same question and it is answered. That things belly will explode.

Merujsy.6283:

And best thing of all is that you didn’t read everything. Skins are valuable because they are rare. And guess what, some skins required achievements that involved JP’s.

Everything is said, I keep repeating and it gets skipped. And you keep asking the same question and it is answered. That things belly will explode.

The number of skins that are WHOLLY dependent on completing a jp achievement and that cannot be gotten in other ways amounts to zero!

Go into the game now. Pick a jump puzzle. Ask for a mesmer to run it for you so you can get ported to the chest. Come back and tell me how many mesmers volunteered their services.

And the reason you are repeating yourself is you have no valid argument. You yourself agree that portals in jump puzzles have had no impact on the game to date and I have shown you how they will have minimal impact going forward yet you keep skipping that point.

Theftwind.8976:

Psycho Robot.7835:

No they haven’t, because JPs are 100% useless right now, but in the future they will award T7 mats, and that is where the problem comes in.

It will not. As I explained quite clearly in the other thread no mesmer is going to want to run a jump puzzle just to port other people up to the end on a frequent enough basis to make any impact on your Tier 7 mats. You are creating a problem where none exists and IF by chance that should happen in the future then deal with it when it does happen but I would lay odds right now that it will not.

The first thing that will happen when JPs start giving out T7 mats is that guilds will organize mass raids where a few mesmers port the entire guild through to collect mats on a regular basis.

Psycho Robot.7835:

“How does it affect YOU? It doesn’t, so it doesn’t matter.”

If you apply that logic to the problem of portaling through JPs, what’s to stop you from applying it to every single aspect of the game? There’s nothing special about JPs that warrants some kind of special exemption, so if you say you should be allowed to skip them, because it doesn’t take anything from other players, then you could say that about the entire game too.

In order to skip a JP you need someone who is not you and is willing to do the content for you and then give you the boost. Typically this is done out of the goodness of their heart, sometimes it’s charged. If you’re willing to pay gold to get to the end of the JP does that make it alright? I mean I’m pretty sure gold is the equalizer, it can even get you a Legendary without having to go through all the effort of making it.

Now lets follow the original logic. You can’t skip content on your own. Someone else has to do the content for you and let you skip it.

• Don’t like running dungeons to get the weapons/armor? Just give them to players who don’t want to run the dungeons, its not like its taking anything from anyone else, so what does it matter?

One 5 people can enter a dungeon instance. If you aren’t participating in the dungeon you are taking up the spot of someone who might have been willing. You’re not taking up anyones spot in a JP. If you can find four people willing to run the dungeon without you participating, though, that’s their choice and they’re allowed to do it.

• Don’t like exploring the world to get the gift of exploration? Just give it to players who don’t like exploring, its not like its taking anything from anyone else, so what does it matter?

There is no way for this to translate as no one can complete the content for you and then get you the reward.

• Don’t like killing world bosses to get guaranteed rares? Just give them to players who don’t like killing world bosses, its not like its taking anything from anyone else, so what does it matter?

The game already works this way. You might have to kill something, or at least hurt it, but as long as you participate in the minorest of capacities, once all the other players complete the content for you you get the reward.

• Don’t like working up the gold to buy high level gear? Just give them soulbound to players who don’t like earning money, its not like its taking anything from anyone else, so what does it matter?

You can always buy gold with real money, so the game already works this way.

• Don’t like all the endless farming required for a legendary? Just give them soulbound to players who don’t like farming, its not taking anything from anyone else, so what does it matter?

As I already said, you can buy a legendary that someone else went through all the effort of making already, so again, the game already works this way.

And you can’t say “Anet obviously doesn’t mind people not doing content but getting rewarded for it” just because there are other areas of the game that have this same quality" because that is what this thread is TRYING TO CHANGE. I have a difficult time understanding why any sensible person would be opposed to making it so you have to DO CONTENT to GET REWARDS. Its baffling to me. What kind of games do you usually play? Those farmville type games where all you have to do is click on kitten to win?

What you’re not understanding is, what you’re trying to change is, in fact, ANet’s apparent vision of how the game is supposed to work. So, who is actually in the wrong here?

You missed my point entirely. I wasn’t saying that all these cases are like portaling through jumping puzzles, I’m saying that applying the same logic used to justify skipping jumping puzzles to other areas of the game makes the cases seem ridiculous and unjustifiable. Because they are.

Anet wants people to cooperate, but there’s no cooperation in portaling through a jumping puzzle. Its one person doing all the work and the others doing none of it.

Psycho Robot.7835:

Theftwind.8976:

Psycho Robot.7835:

No they haven’t, because JPs are 100% useless right now, but in the future they will award T7 mats, and that is where the problem comes in.

It will not. As I explained quite clearly in the other thread no mesmer is going to want to run a jump puzzle just to port other people up to the end on a frequent enough basis to make any impact on your Tier 7 mats. You are creating a problem where none exists and IF by chance that should happen in the future then deal with it when it does happen but I would lay odds right now that it will not.

The first thing that will happen when JPs start giving out T7 mats is that guilds will organize mass raids where a few mesmers port the entire guild through to collect mats on a regular basis.

That is awesome, and I am totally in favor of that. I will benefit from that absolutely 0%, but I still think that’s great.

Psycho Robot.7835:

The first thing that will happen when JPs start giving out T7 mats is that guilds will organize mass raids where a few mesmers port the entire guild through to collect mats on a regular basis.

And how does that affect you? If a Guild chooses to cooperate in such a manner and work together for the betterment of the Guild and their members is that not what this game is about? Have you ever called for a Guild member to help you out in your personal story? How many of these mass raids do you think a Guild would run on any given night considering they still have to get a mesmer to the end of a JP and some JPs require multiple ports where you cannot port someone directly to the end?

We do not even know yet what the drop rate for Tier 7 mats will be in a Jump puzzle chest and if a mesmer port will be worthwhile and you are already creating mountains!

Psycho Robot.7835:

You missed my point entirely. I wasn’t saying that all these cases are like portaling through jumping puzzles, I’m saying that applying the same logic used to justify skipping jumping puzzles to other areas of the game makes the cases seem ridiculous and unjustifiable. Because they are.

Anet wants people to cooperate, but there’s no cooperation in portaling through a jumping puzzle. Its one person doing all the work and the others doing none of it.

No, you missed THE point entirely. You CANT just skip content on your own. You can’t do it. Therefore no body is just being handed the reward. Someone has to be willing to do the content, one way or another, in order to give you the opportunity to skip it. In some cases that opportunity is built so hard into the system that it’s just a matter of fact. In others, like JPs, it requires very specific circumstance which are not the norm.

Do you know how many times I’ve even seen a Mesmer at a JP, let alone used that portal? Once. At the Aetherblade puzzle, and I’ll grant that there were a ton of them. I only used the portal after I’d already gotten to the goggles and still hadn’t found the chest, because that puzzle was very confusing and poorly set up, in my opinion. I had actually been a single jump from the chest, but I didn’t even see it there.

So in all the puzzles, I “skipped” one, and had the opportunity to skip only one. Maybe your server is just jam packed with altruistic Mesmers, but I’m from Tarnished Coast, one of the most active servers in the game and I can tell you ours isn’t.

As for cooperation, how is that not cooperation? It’s not like the Mesmer is breaking his back to lug someone through the thing. The Mesmer is making the choice to help this person, on their own. They don’t have to do it.

“In the spirit of cooperation,” is a phrase that is thrown around sometimes. What it means is, “I’m going to give you something for nothing. I’m giving you this thing in the hope that you will do something in your power for someone else down the road, preferably me, but not necessarily.” This is also known as, “Paying it forward.” So yes, a Mesmer portaling someone simply because they are a Mesmer and happened to be there or even because they happened to see someone in need is cooperating.

I find the ‘reasoning’ provided in the OP entirely unconvincing. Somebody getting a portal to the end of a jumping puzzle does not affect me in any way. Limiting their ability to do so profits me nothing. Therefore, I see no point to the suggestion.

Merujsy.6283:

Post too long to edit so

I request that everyone tries not to use envy and elitism in this matter because it only shows your own envy.

envy that you can press ‘f’ and use a portal?
yes im so envious… ¬¬… its not like… i could take that portal too… no… that would be crazy

Kal Spiro.9745:

If the content isn’t made to be skipped, why is such a large amount of content skipable, and why have they never done anything about it?

stopped reading after that.
im sure its been repeatedly stated that they’re attempting to design encounters to prevent skipping… changes to how stealth works and bug fixes

Psycho Robot.7835:

“How does it affect YOU? It doesn’t, so it doesn’t matter.”

If you apply that logic to the problem of portaling through JPs, what’s to stop you from applying it to every single aspect of the game? There’s nothing special about JPs that warrants some kind of special exemption, so if you say you should be allowed to skip them, because it doesn’t take anything from other players, then you could say that about the entire game too.

• Don’t like running dungeons to get the weapons/armor? Just give them to players who don’t want to run the dungeons, its not like its taking anything from anyone else, so what does it matter?
• Don’t like exploring the world to get the gift of exploration? Just give it to players who don’t like exploring, its not like its taking anything from anyone else, so what does it matter?
• Don’t like killing world bosses to get guaranteed rares? Just give them to players who don’t like killing world bosses, its not like its taking anything from anyone else, so what does it matter?
• Don’t like working up the gold to buy high level gear? Just give them soulbound to players who don’t like earning money, its not like its taking anything from anyone else, so what does it matter?
• Don’t like all the endless farming required for a legendary? Just give them soulbound to players who don’t like farming, its not taking anything from anyone else, so what does it matter?

+1

Linguistically Inept.6583:

Merujsy.6283:

Post too long to edit so

I request that everyone tries not to use envy and elitism in this matter because it only shows your own envy.

envy that you can press ‘f’ and use a portal?
yes im so envious… ¬¬… its not like… i could take that portal too… no… that would be crazy

Messed that up, the first envy, it should be ego.
As for the reason I said it. Thye kept blabbering about me being elitist and that it is only ego that puts me to making this topic.
There is no reason to call someone elitist right away. But they obviously immediatly think everyone is pro and better when they create topics that ask for things to actually take some effort instead of none. They call those people elitist because they feel inferior in that regard —> envy.

As for the rest. I only want things to actually have some form of challenge. And it can be given in none required things like JP’s.
Rewards don’t change. Only the way people get rewards will be corrected. Jumping puzzles were made to be jumped and whatnot, but not to be skipped.

Linguistically Inept.6583:

Kal Spiro.9745:

If the content isn’t made to be skipped, why is such a large amount of content skipable, and why have they never done anything about it?

stopped reading after that.
im sure its been repeatedly stated that they’re attempting to design encounters to prevent skipping… changes to how stealth works and bug fixes

I’m thinking you should have read more then. The fact that they’re trying to make it so more has to be done in Dungeons has just about zero impact on my arguments at all.

I can’t understand why people are still trying to convince others that using a portal to help others skip content is somehow wrong. ANet gets to decide what is right and what is wrong. End of story. The people using portal to help others are playing the game how it was designed to be played. ANet designed this game to encourage “Players Helping Players”, it’s even the title to a forum subgroup.

If you don’t like how portal is used, that’s fine, no one can make you like it. But trying to make others feel like they are doing something wrong is silly. You don’t get to decide that.

There are 3 reasons I believe that ANet wants to allow people to use portals in jumping puzzles.

1)They could make it so that the portals didn’t work in the JP area, but they choose to allow it. That pretty much says it all.

2)But there are also reports of ANet employees laying down portals to the end of JPs.

3)ANet also has a long history from GW1 of allowing players to help other players skip content.

When the kites were placed into the Jumping Puzzles they were part of an event that rewarded the player when all achievements were made. However the one in the Obsidian Sanctum was not at the end of the puzzle but near the end. Now I had ran that jump puzzle before but that week we were up against a strong server who had enough people to camp the jump puzzle critical areas. They would lie in wait and either kill you or knock you off to your death and we did not have the people necessary to defend those that were trying to run it. We managed however to get a mesmer through who spoiled their gank fest by porting people up to the kite from near the start of the puzzle. We did that for anyone on the server who needed that kite and our mesmers ran shifts to help anyone they could.

Now perhaps a jump puzzle expert like Merujsy or Psycho would be able to run that JP with their eyes closed but to most people trying to run a time gated event and getting killed for their efforts was frustrating. Yet you want to call those people lazy and greedy because it does not meet your high standards of proper game play.