Guild Wars 2

They were supposed to be a fun reward for grouping together and taking down a champion, a nice group activity that brought people together.

Instead it created mindless zerg trains and hostile exploitative behavior where farmers turn against normal players.

Limit Champion Boxes to 20 per day and this will stop. Normal players will still get a sense of reward, tons of ascended mats will still be obtainable and people will still be encouraged to come together and kill champions- but the zerg trains will die a painful and justifiable death.

It’s time to make mindless zerging time gated, just like every other money making activity in the game.

Hell no. They need to stop nerfing things.

But knowing anet, they’ll limit it to like one box a day per account.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions

I agree. Unfortunately, you will get nothing but hate here because everyone is doing it and nobody wants their primary source of income to be taken away from them. That being said..

There really are not enough ways to make money in this game. Playing the market isn’t really an option unless you know what you’re doing. Even so, it just makes it so 2% of the players have 99% of the wealth in the game, and that isn’t okay (just like it isn’t IRL). ANet frequently nerfs ways to make money and brings out new ways that are exploited/abused to hell and then those are nerfed. Rinse + repeat. Soon, the only way to make money will be through gem conversion, and that is just said.

this is not the champ fault but the fact that EVERYTHING in this game is nerfed and there’s nothing farmable. You cannot have an mmo without farming spots because you know for a fact tones of people enjoy farming. If there was other places worth farming, champ zergs wouldn’t even be half as big as they’re but since there’s absolutely nothing in this game but this, everyone is doing it.

Join the Zerg and enjoy the easy loot and gold. You don’t need a party, just run with everyone and AA. And reap your rewards and possibly get lucky with some nice drops.

Champ farming never got in the way of leveling in the past and still doesn’t now. If anything I think it brings more ppl to zone events/bosses making the content easier for everyone.

The only way is be fine with them putting a limit on boxes per account would be if they upped the drop rates from ascended/exotic items in the boxes. And I mean a big increase in drop chance, not the bs .00009% crap.

No, it’s because they buffed it w/o buffing the other parts of the game.

The nail that sticks out gets the hammer…. in this case the other nails should be brought up.

you know the farmers are normal players, and not to mention since its about impossible to get the ember farm up which is what im assuming your implying at. none of this is happening.

right now the only viable farm is in frostgorge and none of those events are purposely failed, infact the champ farm makes it safer for everybody.

They need to make it a little more unappealing somehow. Orr temples are getting swarmed, lagging out the server and a lot of people lose out on credit and items.

Give it time. People will stop doing it eventually when the “I want it now” players get what they want. But don’t worry there will be enough new players and alts to keep it alive.

No, because that would also hurt the dungeon runners who have nothing to do with open world PvE or champ trains.

Champion boxes is part of the money we make in dungeons. Limiting it to 20 is going to hurt really bad, because that way, you won’t get any more boxes after like 1 and a half full dungeon.

Teege.4623:

They need to make it a little more unappealing somehow. Orr temples are getting swarmed, lagging out the server and a lot of people lose out on credit and items.

Currently, the temples being occupied by players has less to do with Champion loot and more to do with the guaranteed 30 Dragonite Ore you get for it.

A temple spawns only a handful of champions and is fairly difficult, whereakittenting a few champs at specific locations would be quicker for the same amount of bags.

Just happens that the temples are the only place that has that guaranteed amount of Dragonite Ore. World bosses drop a very random amount that can be <10 or >20.

i smell someone already hoard plenty of lodestones and want the price to go back up again…..

Turning everything into daily content just creates a chore list.
Players do content and then log off. Which just creates less people playing the game.

20 bags a day is also a terrible amount. More than that can be gathered within one invasion.

So you want it to take longer to grind for ascended etc? Some people like me have jobs, So i don’t have time to play 15h a day. Then some profitable farms are good. Why do you want to nerf some of the only profitable farms? Do you want to spend 10 years on grinding for legendary is that fun for you? There is no tons of ascended mats. a stack of ascended mats is barely enough to craft anything or level up.
If you don’t like farming then none is forcing you to do it.
However if you want nice things you have to work for it.

Stop trying to balance the game around yourself, thanks.

NERF THE LOOT

NERF THE LOOT

NERF THE LOOT

There’s no need to limit Champion Boxes to 20 per day. What they should do is implement diminishing returns on individual Champions so that subsequent kills will give inferior versions of Champ bags until they stop dropping altogether (around kill #3 or 4, perhaps). That will encourage people to move on to different maps rather than just staying in the same map for hours and hours.

Zaxares.5419:

There’s no need to limit Champion Boxes to 20 per day. What they should do is implement diminishing returns on individual Champions so that subsequent kills will give inferior versions of Champ bags until they stop dropping altogether (around kill #3 or 4, perhaps). That will encourage people to move on to different maps rather than just staying in the same map for hours and hours.

So what you’re saying is make it even worse than only 20 a day. 3-4 champs drop their usual boxes then its garbage after that? ya good luck with that.

I would be so mad if they do this. Recently because of school i am only playing one weekend every two weeks. So if theres a 20 box limit then ill get 40 – 60 (depending on when i start playing). PLZ stop suggesting things as if everyone plays everyday for countless hours. Time gating daily only prevents people with less time from catching up i.e. laurels ap and now boxes if this terrible idea goes through

Risingashes.8694:

It’s time to make mindless zerging time gated, just like every other money making activity in the game.

So you want the entire game time gated? No thanks.

It’s fine the way it is – you do realize only a very small portion of the player base does this for any length of time, right? If EVERYONE did nothing but kill champs FGS and CS would permanently be overflow maps and instead of 10-60 people (on higher pop servers…) it would be 1000’s across many overflow maps. Heck, ironically I spent dozens and dozens of hours farming champs for the last month… but I’ve spent no more than 3 hours TOTAL since last Tuesday (ascended weapon patch day)- want to know why? there is plenty of other things to do in the game – currently for me it’s farming up dragonite and empyreal shards – both of which have very little to do with farming champions (at least for me.)

You people are so ignorant. Its about balancing the economy. More money in the game makes prices go up. altough it seems that youre richer than before, you are not. What 100g was worth is what 200g is now.

I am generally in favor of nerfs, so I say yes.

It sucks that it’s the best way to get money. Whenever I’m doing anything else but dailies, I’m always thinking I could be making 50 times the cash/luck getting back on the train.

Vamistle.9710:

Zaxares.5419:

There’s no need to limit Champion Boxes to 20 per day. What they should do is implement diminishing returns on individual Champions so that subsequent kills will give inferior versions of Champ bags until they stop dropping altogether (around kill #3 or 4, perhaps). That will encourage people to move on to different maps rather than just staying in the same map for hours and hours.

So what you’re saying is make it even worse than only 20 a day. 3-4 champs drop their usual boxes then its garbage after that? ya good luck with that.

I think you’ve misinterpreted my post.

The OP’s suggestion was to limit Champion Bags to a flat 20 per account per day. My suggestion would let you hit the Frostgorge Champs 3 – 4 times, then hit the Orr Champs 3 – 4 times. Repeat for Southsun, Fireheart Rise, Sparkfly Fen, all the way down to maps like Queensdale and Wayfarer’s. The diminishing returns is PER CHAMPION. It would thus encourage people to move on to different maps rather than just sitting in Frostgorge all the time.

Champ farming makes open world enjoyable for once, and makes zones more than a barren wasteland. Nerfing them will make they game appear dead again, with everyone going to instances (read dungeons) to farm.

Blaze Johnny.8645:

You people are so stupid. Its about balancing the economy. More money in the game makes prices go up. altough it seems that youre richer than before, you are not. What 100g was worth is what 200g is now.

Really? 100g used to buy me just shy of an entire T3 cultural outfit. 200g today buys me…almost two full T3 cultural outfits. Abyss dye is still 25ish g…Celestial dye is still 16-18g…Powerful Bloods are still 30ish silver… Lodestones are 30-50% cheaper…etc, etc.

More fun = gold easier to acquire offset by more gold sinks to balance out the economy

I’m sorry that former CoF Path 1 farmers and TP heroes are having to deal with a little inflation…so sad.

Blaze Johnny.8645:

You people are so ignorant. Its about balancing the economy. More money in the game makes prices go up. altough it seems that youre richer than before, you are not. What 100g was worth is what 200g is now.

not necessarily.. it actually made certain items previously very expensive cheaper now…. take charged lodestone for example…..previously 3.5g, now hover just above 2g…..

Zaxares.5419:

Vamistle.9710:

Zaxares.5419:

There’s no need to limit Champion Boxes to 20 per day. What they should do is implement diminishing returns on individual Champions so that subsequent kills will give inferior versions of Champ bags until they stop dropping altogether (around kill #3 or 4, perhaps). That will encourage people to move on to different maps rather than just staying in the same map for hours and hours.

So what you’re saying is make it even worse than only 20 a day. 3-4 champs drop their usual boxes then its garbage after that? ya good luck with that.

I think you’ve misinterpreted my post.

The OP’s suggestion was to limit Champion Bags to a flat 20 per account per day. My suggestion would let you hit the Frostgorge Champs 3 – 4 times, then hit the Orr Champs 3 – 4 times. Repeat for Southsun, Fireheart Rise, Sparkfly Fen, all the way down to maps like Queensdale and Wayfarer’s. The diminishing returns is PER CHAMPION. It would thus encourage people to move on to different maps rather than just sitting in Frostgorge all the time.

what’s wrong with people preferring to stay at one map ? they can farm just anywhere, it just happen that people have common preference of Frostgorge….

Please no more timegating. If people want to pursue the drudgery of farming champions for hours on end, then have at, folks, enjoy your champions. If you’re going to change anything, maybe push up rewards elsewhere.

There are more than enough champions to go around.

Also there is no such thing as a “normal” player. What defines a normal player changes from person to person.

I run world boss events and in the downtime I run around in the champion farms. Normally I would just log out of the game with a timer window open and play something else in between world boss spawns.

I never farmed CoF. I knew it existed as a very profitable farm, but I find Guild Wars 2 dungeons to be detestable. I’m not mad at CoF farmers because I chose not to do it. The additions of champion rewards in the meanwhile was perfect for a player like me who loves running in large sociable groups having fun and making some money.

You’re basically asking for a group of people having fun to be punished because you think they should be having fun in other ways.

Making an enjoyable and accessible game is all about having various avenues for enjoyment and then having the player choose what is right for them.

Zaxares.5419:

There’s no need to limit Champion Boxes to 20 per day. What they should do is implement diminishing returns on individual Champions so that subsequent kills will give inferior versions of Champ bags until they stop dropping altogether (around kill #3 or 4, perhaps). That will encourage people to move on to different maps rather than just staying in the same map for hours and hours.

Or simply increase the scaling on champs. I’ve run with the zerg one round in Frostgorge (I was at the WP near the fish to unlock it and decided to see what it was all about). By the time we got to the Wurm, the thing was already at 50% health when I arrived. And the next one (no idea what it was) was dead by the time I reached it (and I knew what WP to use). If it takes, let’s say, 3 minutes to kill a champ with a group of max 5, it should take 3 minutes to kill a champ with a group of 50. And not 30 seconds.

Disagree. The game needs less timed limits, not more.

And I don’t even farm Champions.

LadyRhonwyn.2501:

Zaxares.5419:

There’s no need to limit Champion Boxes to 20 per day. What they should do is implement diminishing returns on individual Champions so that subsequent kills will give inferior versions of Champ bags until they stop dropping altogether (around kill #3 or 4, perhaps). That will encourage people to move on to different maps rather than just staying in the same map for hours and hours.

Or simply increase the scaling on champs. I’ve run with the zerg one round in Frostgorge (I was at the WP near the fish to unlock it and decided to see what it was all about). By the time we got to the Wurm, the thing was already at 50% health when I arrived. And the next one (no idea what it was) was dead by the time I reached it (and I knew what WP to use). If it takes, let’s say, 3 minutes to kill a champ with a group of max 5, it should take 3 minutes to kill a champ with a group of 50. And not 30 seconds.

^ I agree with this.

I don’t care what the problem is, the solution will NEVER be more time-gating. Time-gating is killing this game for me. Now you want to make it so that my dungeon gauntlets, that have NOTHING to do your with stupid kittening champ trains, gets nerfed too?

This idea is total garbage.

Risingashes.8694:

They were supposed to be a fun reward for grouping together and taking down a champion, a nice group activity that brought people together.

No. It was supposed to be a tool to keep people playing the game, even if all they are doing is a mindless, easy grind. And it’s working as intended.The issue was that people had little to grind for left, but ArenaNet has fixed it with Ascended weapons, and they have Ascended armor on the backburner for when people are finished grinding for the weapons.

I don’t really believe most people have fun farming the champions, as much as they enjoy receiving the rewards and consider enduring the farm to be an acceptable compromise. For ArenaNet, this is great – they get to keep people playing the game without having to worry about making fun content.

Arsenic Touch.7960:

Hell no. They need to stop nerfing things.

But knowing anet, they’ll limit it to like one box a day per account.

It’s a wrong way of rewarding players. Actually it cannot be considered a reward when the encounter becomes too trivial but you get a better loot at a faster rate compared to say a world event that requires a bit more player coordination and positioning to trigger and finish. But I doubt these guys even know what events I’m talking about since they only know the ones being train-farmed to death and spammed by auto attack as fast as possible.

However, I don’t think Champ boxes will get a hard nerf since this is basically what draws players: brain dead farming and then get instant shinies. Challenging content that takes some bit of effort to trigger and finish like Mega Destroyer or Branded Devourer world events are so dead while Frostgorge and Queensdale champs are being brutally harrased by zergs a mere second after respawning since they give faster loot with little to no effort. You just warp there and spam auto-attack. That’s it.

Instead of nerfing rewards, why not make these Champions some sort of mini epic encounter and fix the darn scaling when a zergload of players farm them? Add variety to the attacks the Champ does when being attacked by more than 50+ players. It’s not the rewards that’s OP. It’s the encounter that scales very poorly when participated by a zerg of players. They need to improve their scaling IMO. And they call this game an MMO. Ha!

ANet will try to fix Tequatl’s encounter on the next patch but when that event is ignored like any other challenging content existing in the game, you get your answer. Majority of the players doesn’t give a frap about challenging stuff They only see shinies as their form of joy and e-pin pride. Sad but true. I actually start to think that this is basically the reason for the back to back implementation of obvious farm-friendly content like the pavillion and Scarlet Invasion. This is the real and tragic life of an MMO.

There is no easy solution to the problem posed here.

There has been (since basically the launch of the game) the general complaint that veteran and champion mobs were not rewarding enough for the effort they required. (Especially after the general loot issues in November). They first attempted to fix this by making sure these mob types had some type of guaranteed drop for anyone that qualified (ie enough dmg). However, a guaranteed blue or green drop was not good enough for most people. As such, the majority of all champs were simply not killed. People just ran passed them, as they deemed that they still “weren’t worth the effort.” There was still the outcry that they weren’t worth it, something more needed to be done. Anet, again tried to ‘fix’ the issue, listening to their player base, and adjusting some of the loot rewards – enter champion loot bags. These bags now made the champs worth killing, and as an added bonus, to help appease some of those asking for skins to farm and additional ways to gather high end materials, they threw those into the rng champs bags as well. Should have been a win-win all around.

Now; however, we are faced with the issue of massive zergs rushing from champ to champ, seeking the fastest possible route with the least resistance. While Anet is pleased that people are playing together in the open world (Colin day say as much), I (personal opinion incoming) don’t think they really intended for such massive groups to all on the same foe, the way we are with the champion farming. This is semi-supported by the fact that they simply don’t scale (presently) quite the way they should.

Simply scaling the champs for the larger groups may alleviate some of the complaints about not being able to get your hits in to qualify for the loot tables, but that will only work for so long. We are already getting the complaints (and honestly have been for a while) that simple ‘zerg play’ isn’t fun. People just aren’t happy with it, and feel like they are being forced into it.

I feel that champs need to not only scale better, but when they hit a certain number of people, their mechanics need to adjust as well, to make them more interesting and potentially more fun. This way you can’t just stand there and let your auto attack do the work for you. In addition to this, we need incentive to not simply ‘run the zerg loop’ like mindless hamsters. I get that some people enjoy this, and that’s fine; however, some people are only doing it because it’s lucrative. They’d prefer to be doing other things but feel locked into this zerg gameplay. They need something else to entice them back out into the other things they enjoy, instead of feeling like they need to be on the choo choo train in order to make money.

Hopefully, as they continue to overhaul their world bosses, dungeons, etc we will start seeing other part of the game become more lucrative and “worth doing,” which might help break up some of the zerg-i-ness. We will simply have to have some patience and see what develops.

The only thing I read here is:
Daddy! The other boys have more money than me! QQ
(I got 30g, but it doesn’t bother me)

Why do I get the feeling that casual players hate it when other people make more gold than them? Is that why you want this nerfed? You hate it when people have more time than you?

If they up the drops somewhat, or somewhere else I would not mind one bit.

Vol.5241:

Why do I get the feeling that casual players hate it when other people make more gold than them?

I think it’s more likely that human beings look at Skinner rats and wonder if the game couldn’t have a better reward system than that.

You know what’s the solution? Roll back the COF P1 nerf so farmers have a happy time (trapped) inside.

And then the rest of the playerbase will continue to complain that effort =/= reward.

all because casual players don’t like how other players play.

Afya.5842:

You know what’s the solution? Roll back the COF P1 nerf so farmers have a happy time (trapped) inside.

And all exploreable zones are a ghost town none there except for 1 or 2 doing map completion do you seriously want this? finally they breath life in the world and then you want it nerfed so everyone go to cof again ? btw those 1 or 2 individuals busy with exploring the map were often too busy to chat. So that means there was basically none in pve maps. At least in my server i guess it varies a little bit.

Afya.5842:

You know what’s the solution? Roll back the COF P1 nerf so farmers have a happy time (trapped) inside.

They don’t want to segregate the population like this though. They want the majority of people out in the open world playing together, not in dungeons. Which was part of the reasons given for why they aren’t considering doing hard mode for dungeons.

Vol.5241:

And then the rest of the playerbase will continue to complain that effort =/= reward.

all because casual players don’t like how other players play.

This is a general issue with human nature, something that can be overcome, but most people are too petty and/or greedy to bother. Greed is what makes the world go ’round, it seems.

Honestly, (personally) I could care less what other people do. If they want to run the wheel, like a hamster, and farm their brains out because that’s what they like to do, go for it. They aren’t forcing me to do it, so it don’t bother me. If I’m in a map and the zerg train is coming through, I go do something else for 5-10 minutes, then come back and carry on with what I was doing or I hop in long enough to kill what I was probably aiming to kill anyway and then carry on. I don’t let their play interfere by ‘stopping’ me.

Vol.5241:

And then the rest of the playerbase will continue to complain that effort =/= reward.

No, people already complain that skill =/= reward.

Grinders don’t want skill to be a requirement, only time, since they want the only thing they have to be the limiting factor in acquiring stuff.

tom.7468:

Afya.5842:

You know what’s the solution? Roll back the COF P1 nerf so farmers have a happy time (trapped) inside.

And all exploreable zones are a ghost town none there except for 1 or 2 doing map completion do you seriously want this? finally they breath life in the world and then you want it nerfed so everyone go to cof again ? btw those 1 or 2 individuals busy with exploring the map were often too busy to chat. So that means there was basically none in pve maps. At least in my server i guess it varies a little bit.

So you want the COF P1 farmers out there because they bring “life” to open-world. But don’t what them out there because they bring “mindless zerg” to open-world.

Right…..I believe I understand that….right…

Mindless zerging > mindless posting with “solutions”. The game rewards need to be increased up to the level of champs, not champs brought down to the level of garbage.

Stop trying to bring others down when they’re not hurting anything

Erasculio.2914:

Vol.5241:

And then the rest of the playerbase will continue to complain that effort =/= reward.

No, people already complain that skill =/= reward.

Grinders don’t want skill to be a requirement, only time, since they want the only thing they have to be the limiting factor in acquiring stuff.

I don’t believe there should be a ‘skill’ or ‘time’ requirement around reward for playing the game. Anywhere near the genre we play games to experience a sense of intrinsic and extrinsic reward for play. We play games, in part, to experience reward. Reward should be for playing the game.

Limit champ boxes to 20 per day? No.

DR? Game companies (or other players) should not seek to micromanage playstyles. If a player wishes to play in one area for four hours, reward should not be turned off for hours 2-4. That should be obvious on the face of it. We play games, again in part, to experience reward. It is silly (in epic Monty Python fashion) to program in dis-reward.

I see indicators that Anet is focusing on adding more reward to the game. This is a good thing and they should continue efforts to make the game more rewarding. Of course, they need to give up their role as play policemen and remove DR. Completely. It’s one of those ideas that’s fine in a brainstorming session, but it should never make it past the reality-testing stage and should have never made it into the game.