Guild Wars 2

So yesterday I rage quitted this game for the first time….I was doing the jumping puzzle in the asura starting zone and after like 20 or 30 minutes and quite a few attempts I got to the third stage and there I fell off the platforms and instead of being transported to the beginning I fell on some root or something and died….
I’m sort of an achievement obsessive, if there is an achievement I’ll try with all my will to achieve it but this thing just beat me…I don’t think I’ll try to do it again.
But then I started thinking: This puzzle’s idea was actually a lot better than the other ones, it was long but you didn’t have to start the whole thing again if you failed (unless you died like me) so based on that I thought of a couple of things to make puzzles in general more enjoyable and less frustrating:

1. Make all puzzles with some system of checkpoint where you don’t have to do the whole thing again every time you fail. This could mean that puzzles should be longer but the number of checkpoints could vary according to the lenght of the puzzle.
2. Save your progress if you logout or leave the area. It’s very annoying that you can’t leave or go do something else until you finish because you would lose all your progress. This could be used to exploit the chest of course so maybe when you finish the puzzle it should clear all your progress (I’ve never done a puzzle twice so I don’t know if you can actually loot the chests more than once).
3. Don’t let players die in the puzzles (or not an actual death but instead just take them back to the start). If I fail the jump or my timing and fall down that should be a punishment enough, not also dying and having to pay money to then have to run who knows how much just to start again.

Those are for now my thoughts on this matter…I really like this puzzles and I don’t think I’m pointing to make them easier, just a little more enjoyable.

Sorry for any grammar errors, english isn’t my main language.

They’re frustrating for a reason, that’s why you get an achievment for completing them.

Are you asking for easier jumping puzzles…?

Shandim.8694:

Are you asking for easier jumping puzzles…?

I really think I’m not…actually I think I said it already.
In fact I wouldn’t mind if they were harder if they had those couple of improvements I suggested.

1. checkpoints are stupid, i have done 90% of all the puzzles, and none of them are sooo ohard that they require a checkpoint.

1. “save your progress” thats stupid, if you leave, you deserve to start over.

1. I agree kind of with this but on the other hand, if you don’t like playing to return to a waypoint, go with someone so they can rez you. I know for a fact, if you even mention jump puzzle in an area, people will come help.

I numbered those 1,2, and 3, not sure why they are all numbered “1”.

lady krottos.7940:

I numbered those 1,2, and 3, not sure why they are all numbered “1”.

You have to put # in front of the sentence.
And thanks for your opinion.

Azaziel.3608:

Shandim.8694:

Are you asking for easier jumping puzzles…?

I really think I’m not…actually I think I said it already.
In fact I wouldn’t mind if they were harder if they had those couple of improvements I suggested.

It seems like what you’re doing is asking for easier jump puzzles by suggesting features that eliminate the possibility for failure, which obviously takes away from the challenge of completing the puzzles and the rewarding feeling of accomplishment that follows completion.

My son once asked my why my character wouldn’t use his hand to climb up there…. This question haunts me everytime I get into a jumping puzzle.

yandere.9176:

My son once asked my why my character wouldn’t use his hand to climb up there…. This question haunts me everytime I get into a jumping puzzle.

Yes…. it’s like when a jump is JUST that bit too high (you’re not supposed to make it) and I feel that if he’d just flop his body down or use his arms he could just lift himself up.

the only change to a jumping puzzle i would want is the camera in Antre of Adjournment. I’m a sylvari and the camera screws up in quite a few of the other puzzles, but in this one it freaks the kitten out. Like seizure inducing bad.

You’d love the puzzle in Metrica Province, where the start of the puzzle is actually the ending of another puzzle (the Spiral Tree one), and if you happen to die right before the end you’ll have to do both puzzles all over again.

I did the Eternal Battlegrounds jumping puzzle during the beta, which took a friend and me 2 hours. Now I can do it in about 20 minutes or so. You DO get better at these, and you ARE going to have trouble at first. Now I breeze through all jumping puzzles.

Practice makes perfect!

If you are talking about the puzzle in the sky with portals…

You didn’t have to start over. If you respawned and went back to the entrance, you can talk to the robot and he can teleport you to the stage you were on. Not sure how long that action lasts…but I definitely died trying that puzzle and he teleported me back a few times.

I’ve played Super Meat Boy and The Binding of Isaac. That’s like getting a Major in patience over frustration.

The only two things I’ve found frustrating so far in the game are:
- Dark Reverie jumping puzzle.
- Thaumanova elemental event.
I will agree with fixing those.
The rest, I found to be fine.

Yeah, the puzzle in the sky of Metrica Province already has checkpoints, which reset after a while (not sure how long, but easily long enough to finish the puzzle; I know they reset cause I’ve done a similar one twice). Like drwookie said, just talk to the little robots and they will teleport you to any station you’ve already been to.

About not letting players die, I agree it does get a little upsetting to have to pay money when you die (and bringing a friend doesn’t solve all the problems . . . sometimes they can’t reach you). Paying to return to a waypoint and then having to repair your armor if you died from something other than fall damage (like if you fall into lava that you can’t get out of . . . like Spekk’s Lab [but there’s an easy work-around for that: take off your armor when doing the jumping]). However, unless you die excessively, this shouldn’t be much of a problem.

Bron.9647:

Yeah, the puzzle in the sky of Metrica Province already has checkpoints, which reset after a while (not sure how long, but easily long enough to finish the puzzle; I know they reset cause I’ve done a similar one twice). Like drwookie said, just talk to the little robots and they will teleport you to any station you’ve already been to.

About not letting players die, I agree it does get a little upsetting to have to pay money when you die (and bringing a friend doesn’t solve all the problems . . . sometimes they can’t reach you). Paying to return to a waypoint and then having to repair your armor if you died from something other than fall damage (like if you fall into lava that you can’t get out of . . . like Spekk’s Lab [but there’s an easy work-around for that: take off your armor when doing the jumping]). However, unless you die excessively, this shouldn’t be much of a problem.

I think he’s actually referring to sometimes when you miss a jump in Metrica Province jumping puzzle and you actually fall to your death…You don’t even get teleported back to the start, you actually fall.

I think this is actually a bug though.

Spekk’s Lab is my favorite jumping puzzle so far.

It’s fast. It’s fluid. It’s simple. It’s fun. And if you fall, you can go on instead having to repeatedly resurrect or hope anyone will have the guts to resurrect you in the middle of the lava.

Maybe it gives too many checkpoits, which makes it too easy for some people, but with or without them it’s still fun.

It has been the only jumping puzzle I found myself doing twice in a row. Not for the chest, but just to make it all the way to the top in one go.

I love the jumping puzzles and making those easier would ruin it for me. I did play several platform games before so I guess I get a sort of headstart when it comes to jumping etc.

Maybe it helps to think that all the dying, getting killed, having to restart and all else that stand between you and completion only contributes to the saviour of the well earned victory?

About the Spekk’s Lab puzzle. You get buffs which attunes you to the portal of the different parts of the puzzle. Each one lasts about 18 minutes or so.

lady krottos.7940:

They’re frustrating for a reason, that’s why you get an achievment for completing them.

I don’t mind frustrating, I seriously mind shenanigans.

And by shenanigans I mean invisible walls. There are a number of spots where it looks like I can jump only to be, literally, shoved away from my goal in mid air, and plummeted to the ground.

Yeah, I call shenanigans on this. If it looks like I can jump there, then kitten it, let me jump there. If you don’t want me to jump from A to B then put a ruttin’ wall I can see there.

Oh yeah. And about Lightning Flash and Blink. I fail to understand why these don’t work on uneven ground in general and in jumping puzzles in particular. Seriously, if you want 2 or 3 tough jumps in there so people have the option of using that skill and then jumping normally to finish the tough jumps or deciding to wait on that skill use for a later jump.

But seriously… lose the cheaty-face invisible walls.

I agree with most people here that I think the fact that you die and the frustration with that is what really makes these puzzles difficult and as good as they are.

If it was as easy as jumping and never dying, starting back at a checkpoint each time, you determination and fear of falling decrease greatly, making the puzzkitten ring.

Some of the best games have a high death penalty, as you do everything you can to not die, where a game that has low to no death penalty, you will easily run into a gun battle without thinking twice. At the moment these jumping puzzles are like the former, making you think twice before attempting a jump.

It can be annoying but, thats why they give you rewards at the end for your pain and suffering

I don’t even do them anymore. Of all the characters I’ve made my favourites are all charr, and constantly failing at a puzzle when as a smaller character it was pathetically easy, just makes me want to go play something else.

Awards can go take a long walk off a short pier.

Please please no. I love jumping puzzles the way they are. The most frustrating one I’ve done yet is the bomb race with the griffons, but my GOD what an achievement when you accomplikitten.

I normally do them with one of my friends and we’re both pretty darn good at the platforming in this game. I have another friend who tags along and isn’t very good at them and gets frustrated, but sticks with it and sees it through.

This is, personally, my absolute favourite part of the game

I just wanted to point out a few tricks I’ve learned that make most jumping puzzles incredibly easy. The engineer gets a jump attack that can be targeted. Other than that I want to cover warrior.

Warrior can do most jumping puzzles very easily if you are having difficulty.

The methods are as follows:

To counter anything that tries to push you off such as gusts of air, you may use any stability move to get across.

To counter any condition damage such as frost, use the condition damage removal skill.

Single hand sword has a leap that can get you to places you are simply not meant to be able to get so easily to sometimes. Some other professions have similar skills I am assuming.

If you need to get across an area quickly, the warhorn has a swiftness skill as does the banner. The warhorn + sword provides excellent mobility with hammer as your secondary for the adrenaline leap.

Here is the final and most useful one.. Although your hammer targeted leap skill requires adrenaline, you may use it out of combat even without the elite skill. If you activate the signet of fury or berserkers stance, you can easily get enough adrenaline to use the targeted adrenaline leap and hop several places ahead with complete accuracy.

This skill allows you to pop over to areas in a method similar to the engineers leap, although it has an 8 or so second cool-down (I forgot).

If you find yourself having any sort of difficulty with any puzzle which allows you to take a moment to get across, these methods should be able to get you to where you need to be. Although you may not get there as fast, you are more certain to get there at all.

I quite like the difficulty of the jumping puzzles as is. I avoid using such skills on them if possible. With workarounds such as these, it becomes possible for people who enjoy the difficulty to enjoy it. People who have trouble may use these workarounds.

I do not consider them exploits due to them being part of the game code and being mere alternative means to the end.

I hope this shared knowledge proves fruitful if you have difficulty in the future.

Other professions also have certain moves such as warriors. I find it unfair that the ranger greatsword dash pushes the character downward and would like to see it made so that the ranger dash allows similar jumps. The ranger single sword dash will send you backwards but if there is a wall you can back up against you can sometimes use it to hop across certain areas.

When in doubt, just jump and learn the flow of the puzzle. I don’t think they are meant to require skills and I have been able to complete them without them so far.

I love most of the jumping puzzles and my guild is having a blast doing them. Sure some cursing is involved but to complete them is always rewarding. Group screenshot at the chest!

Though jumping as a charr is horrendous! The camera is really weird (This probably applies for norn too) and it’s hard to see where you want to begin your jump on ledges, and where you want to land when charrs are jumping on all 4 feet.

I have to agree, although its difficult to properly solve it, larger characters than us asurans have alot more difficulty due to camera issues. That is, unless theres a charr butt in front of us obscuring our view of the rest of the vista, ehehe!

If they make your character go invisible when camera gets closer even more.. it will cause you to be incapable of knowing where your character is going and mess the jump up. If your character is totally visible, you can’t see where you are jumping.
Some of those tricks above might help, but its hard to target something when your character won’t let you see where you are targeting due to a camera bug from being a larger character. I don’t have this problem as an asura, but I see it in alot of videos and hear people complain about it. There are even puzzles that my camera spazzes out on.. and I’m asuran.

Sometimes hiding the interface can help. If you bind it to a key that might allow you to have a bit more peripheral vision and have a 1% easier time of it. I really don’t play as anything except asuran so I can’t offer much advice, sorry.

lady krottos.7940:

They’re frustrating for a reason, that’s why you get an achievment for completing them.

this

I don’t mind the frustration level I’ll just come back another time. What I do mind are the lousy chest rewards. I have never, ever gotten one I can use on the toon that completed the puzzle. I did one yesterday and received mighty leather pants (my guardian can’t use and my thief can craft anyway) and a garnet pebble o.O If puzzle rewards cannot be class appropriate at least make them something worthwhile purty please.

Please make transformation potions sellable to vendors please. They’re a waste of bank/bag space and since I used a key to get ’em I should at least be able to vendor it.

ha ha – yeah I gotta go back and try that one again.
I died and paid repair costs lol.
The other one that is difficult is in Sylvari territory…phew ‘wiping forehead’.
I also heard about a friend who took two hours to do the one in Lions Arch.

If they’d just fix the tiny feline CAMERA!

Make them as hard as you want, but let me be able to actually see the terrain I’m working with.

“But in the real world you wouldn’t be able to see perfectly!”

In the real world I’d also bring a rope and use my hands occasionally. /end debate

Ok, the whole point of these puzzles is to be a challenge. Making check points and putting up guard rails so you can’t die is just silly. It’s not suppose to be easy, you are SUPPOSE to die if you’re bad at them so you learn and get better. It makes you want to do better and makes the end reward that much sweeter.

Jumping puzzles are fine, stop being lazy.

That puzzle has some bugs with it making it more difficult, the dying you mentioned. Dying in other puzzles though is meant to happen. However otherwise there is nothing that needs to change.

I would like a way to get to them more easily (free waypoints) and chests to be leveled to 80 so we can actually get decent loot from lower tiered chests. Jump puzzles are rarely reliant on your level (one or two are a challenge alone, especially at their required level, but like no other one is)

lady krottos.7940:

They’re frustrating for a reason, that’s why you get an achievment for completing them.

Exactly this.

Some puzzles already use a similar system to the suggested one plus there are few enough puzzles that are even long enough that such a system would even be needed.

There are a ton of easy jumping puzzles so please bare with those of us that actually enjoy a challenge as there are very few of them as it is.

Never jump alone! Go in with a “spotter” who can res you when you fall to your death and take turns completing the puzzle.

I’m am not in favor of anything that makes jumping puzzles any less frustrating. The more kitten off I get, the more my blood pressure spikes, the more I want to murder some puzzle designer, the greater the rush when I finally reach the goal. Don’t take that away from me just because you are a pansy.

Loved the jumping puzzles.

Have 100% the achievements for them now (which I was rather sad about). But keep going back and doing them.

Most frustrating for me would have been the one to carry an egg through the whole gryphon rookery. Learning the route from start to finish, then going back and accomplishing it without being hit took a fairly long time. But when I had finished I felt great about it.

For me, the more frustrating I found them, the more joy I got from reaching the end.

Jumping puzzles should not be easier, however they should be completely different. Vast majority of puzzles are technical jumping puzzles, and rely on tricky leaps and delicate control rather than planning out a path. As things are now the way that you are supposed to take is blatant, but you need to figure out which of the several equally viable looking paths isn’t blocked by an invisible wall. Probably the most fun i’ve had in one wasn’t even a jumping puzzle but a vista in a room with a series of tangled vines leading to it, you needed to plan out which one you would need to take to and the series of jumps necessary to reach the final vine. Basically emphasize the puzzle aspect of the jumping “puzzles”.

Save your progress if you logout or leave the area. It’s very annoying that you can’t leave or go do something else until you finish because you would lose all your progress. This could be used to exploit the chest of course so maybe when you finish the puzzle it should clear all your progress (I’ve never done a puzzle twice so I don’t know if you can actually loot the chests more than once).

It already saves your progress if you logout in all but the WvW jumping puzzles. I logged out just before the waterfall in the jumping puzzle in the charr starting area, logged back in the next day and I was still there. If you actually leave the area, you SHOULD have to start over.

I forgot to mention that there is a bug in spekks lab that is a legitimate bug that might need fixing that involves occasionally either:

A. teleporting the player forward to the next tile.

or more likely…

B. teleporting the player to the previous tile at this one point in the puzzle each time you step forward to the next one. This ends in an unavoidable lava bath if you are unfortunate enough to get the bug (you can just hop out of it with a dodge and movement skill but its still a bug). It doesn’t seem to happen to every character but I have seen it in videos.

It might have been server lag but it happens consistently to me whether I am far ahead of the puzzle or lagging behind.. on this one set of tiles. Anyway, its possible to get past it so its not that bad but I suppose its worth reporting because I assume alot of people will be having a more difficult time with it.

I was able to complete this jumping puzzle with no problem my first time but the bug was pretty obvious. Of course, I totally tried dodging into the big lasers but the jumping part I nailed! Hah… Lasers hurt even if you dodge through them, who would have known… ok maybe its science.

lady krottos.7940:

They’re frustrating for a reason, that’s why you get an achievment for completing them.

yes the fun is that it is frustrating

Stratzvyda.3921:

Jumping puzzles should not be easier, however they should be completely different. Vast majority of puzzles are technical jumping puzzles, and rely on tricky leaps and delicate control rather than planning out a path. As things are now the way that you are supposed to take is blatant, but you need to figure out which of the several equally viable looking paths isn’t blocked by an invisible wall. Probably the most fun i’ve had in one wasn’t even a jumping puzzle but a vista in a room with a series of tangled vines leading to it, you needed to plan out which one you would need to take to and the series of jumps necessary to reach the final vine. Basically emphasize the puzzle aspect of the jumping “puzzles”.

And that is why I just don’t bother.

Any GM/DM/Dev can wipe the party 100 times a second if they want to. The invisible walls have got to go. That’s not a “puzzle” with them in, it’s just stupid.

If they fixed the way the camera works during jumping puzzles, most of the frustration would be gone.

I have no issue with the difficulty in jumping puzzles. The camera, by far, is the most frustrating problem in this game as a whole, puzzles or not. This is one of the first games i’ve played recently that the camera is so messed up it’s completely frustrating.

To me there is really only one good solution, the camera needs to ignore everything between the character and it’s lens (FOV). It should pass through the terrain and objects and shouldn’t get bound to anything. If i stand close to an npc, move the camera across said npc, it zooms. It should never be that way and if that was the solution to making it work better during the platforming parts of the game, it’s pretty fail.

The camera is the central focus of any game, there are so many tight battles, so many areas where this is an issue, it’s crazy to think this is the best possible solution.

I know (have read) they are actively working on a fix for the camera, but i’d love to know the direction of said fix, since after that last patch the snapping of the camera has made any tight situation laborious and often times a frustrating experience. Not that smoothing did much, but now the camera just snaps (zooms in and out quicker) and also seems to get bound more often (smacks into even more objects, like rocks or trees, etc.) then it did before.

The jumping puzzles in the game are greatly imagined but poorly programed. If we compare these even with 15 year old platform games, they fail badly. Imagine what will happen if they would be compared to top platform games like Prince of Persia, Ratchet & Clank or Assassin Creed. They would fail so badly that only a programming school project excuse can save the reputation

thief speargun can teleport past certain puzzle parts, engineer can rocket boost to other parts, elementalists and warrior get speed buffs… the list goes on; jumping puzzels are fine. Just take a steady hand

if they would get rid of the camera as an object clipping with things it would clear a lot of this up.

I want more, harder jump puzzles.

But please ANet, give us better loot. Doesn’t have to be THE BEST, but, better would be nice.