Make zerg-farming in PVE less worthwhile !!

Make zerg-farming in PVE less worthwhile !!

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Posted by: Becky.8045

Becky.8045

In the last weeks it became clear to me that certain groups of players are exploiting the high respawn rate of champions to farm massive amounts of gold and items. That behavior probably has an negative effect on the ingame market. But that’s not even the main reason for my posting this. I am really frustrated by the way some of those players are killing the atmosphere on maps like Queensdale and Frostgorge Sound. Constantly flaming and insulting other players because someone dared to kill THEIR champion without them…

I know Anet is not in the least responsible for the behavior of the players but I think some mechanics in GW2 make farming way too easy!

My suggestions to make zerg-farming less worthwhile:

1. If more players are involved in a fight, the champ should become much stronger, so that you cannot just autohit-kill it in less than a minute!

2. Those champions should be able to hit more than five players with their attacks. Either remove that limit completely or make it dynamically adjust to the number of players.

3. The time until champion/event respawn should be much longer!

I hope other ppl will give their suggestions to this problem as well. Please refrain from flaming and stay objective

Rian Dreamweaver

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Posted by: Gabby.3205

Gabby.3205

The problem is that people think that they can dictate how the other players play their game (and BOTH sides do that, farmers and people that troll the train).
There is a guy that purposely disrupts the train every night on TC’s Queensdale and then he rubs his kills on the faces of the farmers. Then, the farmers call him all sorts of things.
One side is a troll, the other side is an angry, rude mob. Too much for the “nice server”.

Alright, now to the reason why I think nerfing won’t help.
The champion farming was nerfed a couple of times already. Nothing changed.
Queensdale is a starter area. What happens if these changes are made and then a party of new players try to kill a champion on a lower populated server? That wouldn’t be fun. At all. I believe that’s the reason why Shadow Behemoth is still that joke of a World Boss, btw.

I’m only talking about Queensdale because that’s where I do my dailies, then I go back to WvW, go find some roleplay or go farm on Frostgorge Sound, where I never had this kind of problem (actually, the map chat is even too quiet there, which is odd since there are so may people farming there all the time). Therefore, I can’t really say anything negative about the Frostgorge Sound’s train and I never had problems with trolls there.

I love to farm after a day of work/college/taking care all the pets that my little sister won’t stop bringing home even though she can’t really take care of all of them. I love to run around with a zerg, I find that relaxing and fun (that’s why I love WvW too, I guess). If they nerfed it so badly that no one would do it anymore, I would be a sad pony :c

Tarnished Coast
Astrid Strongheart, Norn Ranger.
“I wish juvenile wolves were bigger”

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Posted by: MithranArkanere.8957

MithranArkanere.8957

I don’t mind zerg-farmers, but they should definitely make something so they travel all over the world.

Staying in one spot repeating the same actions over and over should NEVER be more profitable than anything else in the game.

As for your #3, that is definitely NOT a good choice.

Not everyone enters the game with the same schedule. So one guy killing a champion should not mean the guy that just entered will not be able to do so too. The timer should not be on the champion, but on the player.

The solution to that is the same for every single guaranteed reward in the game: Flags.

It works for dungeons, for world bosses, for nodes, for puzzles… people would do the easiest ones over and over if that worked. But it doesn’t. So they don’t. They instead go to other places and do other things… or join the champion trains because they still work.

For champions, account-wide kill flags would mean that after defeating the same one 1-3 times depending on power, they will stop dropping champion bags, and the player will have to go find another one.

This would mean that a zerg in one map would kill their champions 1-3 times, and then they will have to move to another map to get their killing on.

But a new zerg could still appar and farm there.

This would mean that instead one permanent big zerg in two maps in the whole game, there would be a few smaller groups traveling all over the world that form as new people enter a map, and vanish as they leave it.

Since release, I’ve never seen ONCE other people in the Demagogue fight, even though it has a chest. Why? Because they don’t even know it exist, because they never bothered to travel the world and learn the locations of the other champions, because the money was in dungeons, and later in the champion circuits.

And that is why champions need flags like everything else with guaranteed rewards in the game.

SUGGEST-A-TRON says:
PAY—ONCE—UNLOCKS—ARE—ALWAYS—BETTER.
No exceptions!

(edited by MithranArkanere.8957)

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Posted by: DeWolfe.2174

DeWolfe.2174

Sorry you had a bad experience. It is a social game, so one should expect people to be running in groups, right? Instead of thinking antisocial and punishing others, try being inclusive and joining the group. You might find it’s a lot more fun!

Out of 26 Zones, only 3 have any large group play like farming. The resources given toward and the opportunity for solo roaming by far outweigh any given toward large group play.

[AwM] of Jade Quarry.

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Posted by: Leamas.5803

Leamas.5803

In the last weeks it became clear to me that certain groups of players are exploiting the high respawn rate of champions to farm massive amounts of gold and items. That behavior probably has an negative effect on the ingame market. But that’s not even the main reason for my posting this. I am really frustrated by the way some of those players are killing the atmosphere on maps like Queensdale and Frostgorge Sound. Constantly flaming and insulting other players because someone dared to kill THEIR champion without them…

I know Anet is not in the least responsible for the behavior of the players but I think some mechanics in GW2 make farming way too easy!

My suggestions to make zerg-farming less worthwhile:

1. If more players are involved in a fight, the champ should become much stronger, so that you cannot just autohit-kill it in less than a minute!

2. Those champions should be able to hit more than five players with their attacks. Either remove that limit completely or make it dynamically adjust to the number of players.

3. The time until champion/event respawn should be much longer!

I hope other ppl will give their suggestions to this problem as well. Please refrain from flaming and stay objective

Rian Dreamweaver

I think they should make make such thing more worthwhile and in more areas of the map. We FINALLY have something that just random groups of players come together to complete a common goals. What’s better is that you don’t need a great deal of time, you can participate for 15 minutes or 15 hours and no one will judge you either way. Isn’t this the point of an MMO, to bring people together? I don’t see how it affects the market greatly other than for a few uber rare mats perhaps (Cores, lodestones, T6 mats). A vast majority of the chests received from champs return only blues or greens and a vast majority of those get salvaged for luck. If people are being disrespectful on the channel(s) report them or play another area that night.

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Posted by: Becky.8045

Becky.8045

I really like that one: “And that is why champions need flags like everything else with guaranteed rewards in the game.” That seems to make a lot of sense!

But don’t you find it kind of sad that running around in a circle killing the same champions over and over should be “the point of an MMO”? I don’t know, that just sounds so wrong to me. I really like doing things in groups in GW2, but there is so much stuff other than champion-farming (i.e. temple events and other event chains) that just isn’t done anymore because champ-farming is easier and faster. Just my 5c…

Rian Dreamweaver

(edited by Becky.8045)

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Posted by: Granitehands.4698

Granitehands.4698

If anything, I believe the harder zones should be more worthwhile. If you’re only getting blues and greens to salvage for luck in both zones, why NOT go to the easier one? I find that Orr is hardly enjoyable, or very rewarding.

Do I like the champ farm in Queens? No.
Will I get angry at people who do it? No.

Main: Shieldsaint
Server: Desolation
Guild: Sword Art Online [SAO]

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Posted by: Leamas.5803

Leamas.5803

But don’t you find it kind of sad that running around in a circle killing the same champions over and over should be “the point of an MMO”? I don’t know, that just sounds so wrong to me.

I agree, but it’s really the only efficient way to gather luck, and they nerfed that back some too, don’t know if anyone noticed that. I don’t know how much, but I know I’m not getting as much as I was. That said, I only tend to do it for 1/2 and hour to 45 minutes and then toddle off to do other things. The repetition bores me fairly quickly. But it is a nice option to have an activity, outside dungeons, we’re you’re guaranteed to make some, albeit not as much as last week, profit…especially if I don’t have a lot of time. That said, it’s a game with limited content, repetition is built in, just look at the a lot of the achievement requirements, or requirements to craft anything better than a rare. You have to grind for mats or grind for gold to buy mats or, God forbid, you have to buy gems to convert to gold to buy mats. I hate the gem to gold conversion and believe it’s ruining the TP, but that’s a different issue.

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Posted by: Leamas.5803

Leamas.5803

If anything, I believe the harder zones should be more worthwhile. If you’re only getting blues and greens to salvage for luck in both zones, why NOT go to the easier one? I find that Orr is hardly enjoyable, or very rewarding.

Do I like the champ farm in Queens? No.
Will I get angry at people who do it? No.

Orr used to be awesome for farming, or so I’m told, but they drastically nerfed rewards and made many of the common farming events (Shelter/Penetent/Jofast/Plinx etc) so difficult or unrewarding that they’re pretty useless now. Not sure if anyone is doing these events now, but the last few times I was in Cursed Shore, I know it was not nearly as busy as it was last winter, when it was often nearly as crowded as Lion’s Arch…a shame really.

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Posted by: Gabby.3205

Gabby.3205

If anything, I believe the harder zones should be more worthwhile. If you’re only getting blues and greens to salvage for luck in both zones, why NOT go to the easier one? I find that Orr is hardly enjoyable, or very rewarding.

Do I like the champ farm in Queens? No.
Will I get angry at people who do it? No.

Well, Frostgorge is WAY more profitable than Queensdale at least. All the champion bags on Frostgorge are exotic, unlike the ones on Queensdale, so we have that. I suppose it is the same with Orr, but I can’t say for sure. I avoid Orr like a plague.

Tarnished Coast
Astrid Strongheart, Norn Ranger.
“I wish juvenile wolves were bigger”

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Posted by: MithranArkanere.8957

MithranArkanere.8957

If anything, I believe the harder zones should be more worthwhile. If you’re only getting blues and greens to salvage for luck in both zones, why NOT go to the easier one? I find that Orr is hardly enjoyable, or very rewarding.

Do I like the champ farm in Queens? No.
Will I get angry at people who do it? No.

My point is not against people doing that, but against players trying to fight a champion somewhere else not having help at all, because everyone else is in a dungeon or in a champion train making moneys.

With flags, a guy trying to do any other champion in any other map would have higher chance to get help, as those who are done with champions in a map move to other maps, and the harder the champions get, the more their flags last.

Right now, in most maps, you yell in map chat “Champion!” and no one comes! No one! It’s amazing. It has been ages since I got people to fight Robbari, or the Demagogue, or the Hylek priest in Brisban.

Before the champion trains became a fad, you could still get some people. But then they realized they could just go on a zerg in one or two maps.

If you put flags in champions, and make the flags of harder champions last more times before they run out, zergs in lower level areas with easier champions will last less, and those in higher level areas will last more.

Champions in Orr could even have flags of a lot of uses. 5 or 10 or even more, since they are among the hardest champions in the game, while flags of champions in the starting areas, as the are easily solo able, would last just 1 or 2 defeats, and champions in higher level areas that are still easy and die often may last just up to 3 or 4.

This would work even better if players had some sort of ‘task list’ they can check to see things like which champions and world bosses they have defeated today, which dungeon paths they have done, the current fractal level of the current character, and which puzzles they have completed.

SUGGEST-A-TRON says:
PAY—ONCE—UNLOCKS—ARE—ALWAYS—BETTER.
No exceptions!

(edited by MithranArkanere.8957)

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Posted by: Abyssisis.3971

Abyssisis.3971

How about making the rest of tyria more worthwhile to play/farm before suggesting to nerf the only open world content which is of any worth even if its in a nerfed state as is. Continuing to nerf the few method of gaining income isn’t going to make this game better, it just makes it crappier for those of us that do not buy gold.

Commander Obscura
The Bloody Rain [Rain]
Devona’s Rest

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Posted by: Deano.7913

Deano.7913

I thought about this once and had two ideas.

One idea I had was, the longer a champ is on the map the better the drops.
I do know that some events such as the Troll in Queensdale spawn it when the event is activated so they would have to take that into account and treat the event trigger such as the stone as the timer or whatever activates the event. I think this may turn some groups into champ hunters that look for some of the less often done champs. I also think if a champ just spawned or champ event trigger just became available and was killed in 2 seconds the rewards should be less.
I know they scale bonus exp by how long a creature has been on the map so I am sure that can likely be applied to the chance of good drops too.

The other idea I had, which may be less popular among the ones that want a more predictable gaming experience, was to give all champs a 30 minute timer on spawn time and a 10 minute unpredictable window in which they could spawn. I don’t know how predicable the Wasp event is in Queensdale, but maybe make them all like that. Basically make their spawns spaced out enough and random enough that it would be better to look for champs, even on other maps, than to run in a little circle in one map.

I know either of these ideas might not be popular with some groups but it may get many to look for those champs and champ events that are less often done.

[WP] Wisenheimer Prime | Guild Leader
Polyhistor Serpente – lvl 80 Elementalist | Crystal Desert
http://www.twitch.tv/polyhistorsl

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Posted by: Frostfang.5109

Frostfang.5109

In the last weeks it became clear to me that certain groups of players are exploiting the high respawn rate of champions to farm massive amounts of gold and items. That behavior probably has an negative effect on the ingame market. But that’s not even the main reason for my posting this. I am really frustrated by the way some of those players are killing the atmosphere on maps like Queensdale and Frostgorge Sound. Constantly flaming and insulting other players because someone dared to kill THEIR champion without them…

I know Anet is not in the least responsible for the behavior of the players but I think some mechanics in GW2 make farming way too easy!

My suggestions to make zerg-farming less worthwhile:

1. If more players are involved in a fight, the champ should become much stronger, so that you cannot just autohit-kill it in less than a minute!

2. Those champions should be able to hit more than five players with their attacks. Either remove that limit completely or make it dynamically adjust to the number of players.

3. The time until champion/event respawn should be much longer!

I hope other ppl will give their suggestions to this problem as well. Please refrain from flaming and stay objective

Rian Dreamweaver

I totally Agree!!! Espacially since som eppl become compleatly mad about others killing “their” champ too early…..

Kima & Co

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Posted by: Silvercyclone.1462

Silvercyclone.1462

A way to solve this problem isn’t to increase the spawn time but to make the champ bags oce a day per character. That way players will farm in other areas and if players want to keep farming champs in queensdale they would need to switch chars. I feel sorry for the devs cause they put in a lot of hard work into each area only to see the majority of players oly in the 1-15 areas.

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Posted by: IndigoSundown.5419

IndigoSundown.5419

It’s a pity that ANet has nerfed virtually every farm that becomes generally known.

It was nice that ANet made Champions worth killing after months of complaints they were not worth bothering with.

It’s a pity that the Champion bags have already been nerfed.

It’s even more of a pity that the entitlement and rudeness of farmers are likely going to lead to further changes to champ farming.

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Posted by: sorudo.9054

sorudo.9054

why not make it so that the only champions that drop good stuff are the difficult ones, that will certainly lower the demand on lower level champion zergs and makes the champions that barely to never get killed by zergs allot more popular.

i am actually against zerg farms and farming in general, i just don’t see farming a part of the game nor do zergs.
better yet, i hope Anet discourages farming and makes ppl work together in order to get better rewards, it’s a social game not a train sim.

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Posted by: Leamas.5803

Leamas.5803

why not make it so that the only champions that drop good stuff are the difficult ones, that will certainly lower the demand on lower level champion zergs and makes the champions that barely to never get killed by zergs allot more popular.

i am actually against zerg farms and farming in general, i just don’t see farming a part of the game nor do zergs.
better yet, i hope Anet discourages farming and makes ppl work together in order to get better rewards, it’s a social game not a train sim.

Unfortunately in GW2, once you’re an 80, if you don’t farm in some way, shape, or form, it’s next to impossible to get good gear. If the gem to gold conversion was not there, then items on the TP, especially top end items, would not be nearly so expensive, then I could agree that farming should be less a part of the game.

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Posted by: Mel.8769

Mel.8769

I don’t have a problem with the idea of champ trains. People working together and profiting in an efficient manner = good.

I do, however, have a problem with the mentality the trains have sometimes. Too many times I’ve seen berating of fellow players because they chose (or were unaware) to play differently than a select few. It’s a very elitist and obnoxious attitude. I see it as a spoiled little brat throwing a fit on the playground because the other children don’t want to play by some made up arbitrary rules.

It’s getting progressively worse and is to the point of bullying. The people that act this way should be but in a serious time out. It’s normally just one or two that are “louder” than the rest, but it gives everyone involved a bad image.

How about instead of yelling, name calling, and berating when rotation is disrupted just say, “Hey we are doing a champ train, this is the rotation we are using, why do you join us and we can work together as a team.”

You catch more flies with honey than vinegar.

Common sense is a flower that doesn’t grow in everyone’s garden. -Unknown

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Posted by: JustTrogdor.7892

JustTrogdor.7892

Stop worrying about how other people play and you will enjoy your game more playing the way you like to. If you don’t like the zerg don’t do it. Usually the only flaming I see is when someone is trolling the zerg because it gives them an opportunity to mess with a large group of people. Even then it is limited and the zerg usually puts an end to the flaming pretty quick. I see worse flaming in LA every time I’m there.

I don’t do the zerg unless I am waiting to do something else. It can be fun for a short time with good conversation within the zerg. Plus they already nerfed it pretty good cutting back on the coin received from bags.

The Burninator

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Posted by: Adine.2184

Adine.2184

The problem i have with the queensdale zerg is that you dont learn how to play the game by zerging . If it wasnt for queensdale being a newbie zone I really wouldnt have a problem with it that much but what ends up happening is newbies join the zerg and dont learn their class properly . What this ends up doing is crating a class of players that have to relearn their class when they get to later levels or may even say screw it and quit .

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Posted by: sorudo.9054

sorudo.9054

why not make it so that the only champions that drop good stuff are the difficult ones, that will certainly lower the demand on lower level champion zergs and makes the champions that barely to never get killed by zergs allot more popular.

i am actually against zerg farms and farming in general, i just don’t see farming a part of the game nor do zergs.
better yet, i hope Anet discourages farming and makes ppl work together in order to get better rewards, it’s a social game not a train sim.

Unfortunately in GW2, once you’re an 80, if you don’t farm in some way, shape, or form, it’s next to impossible to get good gear. If the gem to gold conversion was not there, then items on the TP, especially top end items, would not be nearly so expensive, then I could agree that farming should be less a part of the game.

i have quite decent gear yet i never farmed anything in GW2, it’s simply the lack of imagination that makes ppl farm because they think max everything is the only way to go.

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Posted by: Sickle.6502

Sickle.6502

Sorry you had a bad experience. It is a social game, so one should expect people to be running in groups, right? Instead of thinking antisocial and punishing others, try being inclusive and joining the group. You might find it’s a lot more fun!

Out of 26 Zones, only 3 have any large group play like farming. The resources given toward and the opportunity for solo roaming by far outweigh any given toward large group play.

Incorrect, as it is now, I can farm around 500 Ore’s of Orichalcum in around 4-5 days (Normally sells for around 29-30), if I only do it in one zone that is.

By farming champions you can make half of that in half a day.

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Posted by: Sickle.6502

Sickle.6502

Champions are no longer champions in my eyes, they should be rare and powerful foes, not frequent and possible solo kills.

Since the champion farming and the change for Magic Find has come into play, the gold exchange rate and the economy has been destroyed in Guild wars 2.

Seriously, the economy is now broken due to champion farming in various maps. I used to buy slots for new characters at around 30g, now I have to pay minimum of 56g, and it’s only since “Champion Farming” has been born.

Roughly 56g gets you 800 gems now, what a total joke… A-net need to sort the rate out at which champions spawn, decreasing it to each one, once per hour.

The reason the champions are farmed at the rate they are, is because of two factors, with a possible third thrown in.

1) Time for respawn
2) Reward

~~ Possible ~~
3) Difficulty

~~~

With these three things in mind, this is what needs to be altered.

Either, increase their spawn time to once an hour, to stop farmers hanging around, and thus make the rarity of the champions come back.

Reduce what they drop for sure, and only have the champion drop the elite bags once per day, per character.

Make them harder to kill, make them hit harder, make them hit more people at once, (give them AOE if you must) – Do something to make them a much tougher and BIGGER challenge!

Any one of these ideas, would fix the issue with farming, and if no farming is happening, no trains will form, and no bad mouthing of players who are supposed “messing up the train” or as I call it “derailing it”

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Posted by: danbuter.2314

danbuter.2314

You can’t make champs in queensdale harder to kill. It’s a starter area.

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Posted by: Sickle.6502

Sickle.6502

If the game scaled the champions correctly, then yes you could in fact make the Champs harder.
Champions are supposed to be group event kills, so making them so starters cannot kill them is nothing less than what they are supposed to be designed for.

Champions should NEVER be allowed to be killed by a single player, no matter how good they are.
The reason I love the new patches and updates to the world bosses, is the timers and how difficult they made them – The epic scale of a battle is the amount of players Vs the toughness of a monster.
Champions do not deserve the name, if they cannot live up to it.

By the way a-net, the Dragons are exactly right now, challenging, even deadly at times (tequatl) but LOTS of fun…. Now increase their reward in the box from greens and blues, to at least a single exotic…. and you will have the perfect balance.

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Posted by: Gray.1704

Gray.1704

I only have one problem with Champion Zerg Farming (or ‘Trains’ as people call them):

Remember when Guild Wars 2 was in its early stages and there were groups of bots roaming around and killing in a pattern? Isn’t that exactly what the ‘Train’ is doing now?

It’s frowned upon when bots do it, but it’s okay if a bunch of high level individuals do it?

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t support botters… but if botters are being punished for running in circles and killing the same things over and over, why isn’t the train getting diminishing rewards?

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Posted by: Gabby.3205

Gabby.3205

^Because the train is made of people?
I mean, bots are not punished for making profit, they are punished for using an illegal software to play for them.

Tarnished Coast
Astrid Strongheart, Norn Ranger.
“I wish juvenile wolves were bigger”

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Posted by: sorudo.9054

sorudo.9054

If the game scaled the champions correctly, then yes you could in fact make the Champs harder.
Champions are supposed to be group event kills, so making them so starters cannot kill them is nothing less than what they are supposed to be designed for.

Champions should NEVER be allowed to be killed by a single player, no matter how good they are.
The reason I love the new patches and updates to the world bosses, is the timers and how difficult they made them – The epic scale of a battle is the amount of players Vs the toughness of a monster.
Champions do not deserve the name, if they cannot live up to it.

actually you should be able to do it solo, it just has to be extra rewarding in doing so.
i don’t feel like the hero when a whole zerg kills a champion in 10 seconds and less, i do when i finally killed a champion on my own or with 3 ppl or less.

an alternative way to make zergs useless reward-wise is by making it so that, the more players are killing the champion the lower the rewards.
there is an up and a down with this, the down is that ppl have to search more to get a champion without to many players around, the up side is that zergs become quite useless.

i play MMORPG’s for both the story and immersion, GW2 has a weak story and absolutely no immersion.
the story is Anet’s problem but the immersion is because of zergs that ruin it for other players, they think more about the reward and less about playing the game as it’s meant to.
if you want to play a game just because of the reward there is WoW, GW2 is suppose to be a game without gear grind and gold farming…….NOT

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Posted by: MithranArkanere.8957

MithranArkanere.8957

How about making the rest of tyria more worthwhile to play/farm before suggesting to nerf the only open world content which is of any worth even if its in a nerfed state as is. Continuing to nerf the few method of gaining income isn’t going to make this game better, it just makes it crappier for those of us that do not buy gold.

If you make anywhere else more worthwhile, they’ll go there.

As long as a guaranteed reward is unlimited, people will eventually bunch up together in one spot, because it makes things easier, and people will go to the path of least resistance.

The only way to prevent people from sticking to a single spot with guaranteed rewards is limits in guaranteed rewards per spot, so they have to go to other spots.

[…]
Unfortunately in GW2, once you’re an 80, if you don’t farm in some way, shape, or form, it’s next to impossible to get good gear. If the gem to gold conversion was not there, then items on the TP, especially top end items, would not be nearly so expensive, then I could agree that farming should be less a part of the game.

Those things are so expensive because there’s some people that have been exploiting every single money-making scheme since release until they got nerfed, then moved to the next.
Offer and demand do not work on mere averages. If just one person can and will pay way more, those who sell will put that price as they stuff gets bought for that price, and thus the biggest earners and spenders decide the prices for the rest.

The only way to fix that is limiting the extreme cases to even out things.

SUGGEST-A-TRON says:
PAY—ONCE—UNLOCKS—ARE—ALWAYS—BETTER.
No exceptions!

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Posted by: IndigoSundown.5419

IndigoSundown.5419

actually you should be able to do it solo, it just has to be extra rewarding in doing so. i don’t feel like the hero when a whole zerg kills a champion in 10 seconds and less, i do when i finally killed a champion on my own or with 3 ppl or less.

an alternative way to make zergs useless reward-wise is by making it so that, the more players are killing the champion the lower the rewards. there is an up and a down with this, the down is that ppl have to search more to get a champion without to many players around, the up side is that zergs become quite useless.

This is a really BAD idea. What you’re saying is, “Let’s design the champ rewards so players are going to actively oppose others joining them in killing a champion.” If people think that the train is abusive to those who kill out of sequence now, this would expand that abuse to every time some random joins in on a champion kill.

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Posted by: Odokuro.5049

Odokuro.5049

Well I’ve had my fair share of people complaining about Champion Farm zergs in Frostgorge, but that is mainly because Jormag’s Lt. is ignored, a simple fix would be to, de-spawn all champs in that map until the World Boss, such as Jormag or Shadow Behemoth, ect. is slain. I mean people need to make money in-game somehow, and if people keep complaining, this will just turn into another Plinx/Pent/Shelt nerf, where ANet modifies the spawn times, or the loot scaling, ect. making it like the before mentioned things, worthless to do.

Besides Dragons just don’t give the loot that feels rewarding enough, I mean take Jormag for instance, your spending 25 to 35 mins, breaking through ice walls, battling conditions, fears, and it minions, just to get some crummy rare with maybe another rare and an opal orb and medallion, lol…

The Self-Proclaimed Pervy Sage of Yaks Bend.
https://www.twitch.tv/amazinphelix

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Posted by: Babychoochoo.5690

Babychoochoo.5690

Wouldn’t an infinitely better solution be to find the root of the entire problem and fix that? I would argue very, very few people are farming gold for the heck of it. Most people are doing it because they’re working towards some goal. If the goal was, let’s say, actually obtainable in a way that didn’t require slightly absurd amount of grinding or sheer luck and was actually fun, wouldn’t that be better than nerfing champ farm?

You’re not solving any problem by nerfing champ farm any more than you did by nerfing all the other ways people used to try and make gold. If you nerf champ farm, people will just find yet another controversial way to try and make a buck. We need to get to the root of the problem and fix that.

edit: And again, the market/economy in this game was broken loooooooooong before champ farming was even a thing. Champ farming is the symptom of a much larger, more important disease and we need to worry about curing that instead of focusing on all these temporary, and ultimately useless, fixes.

(edited by Babychoochoo.5690)

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Posted by: Leamas.5803

Leamas.5803

And again, the market/economy in this game was broken loooooooooong before champ farming was even a thing. Champ farming is the symptom of a much larger, more important disease and we need to worry about curing that instead of focusing on all these temporary, and ultimately useless, fixes.

Removing all the bots at once added a great deal of pressure on the TP which drove prices up. Then opening gem store broke the market. Allowing people to buy in game gold with real money. It just adds more and more gold in to the economy, which can only cause gold to devalue. You can’t inject unlimited funds in an economy without causing terrible inflation…especially on the high end, most desirable items.

Now many would argue gold farmers/sellers, such as some on the champ trains are are I’m sure, are the bane of the economy, but are they? Personally, I think this is a myth. Think about it, bots and gold sellers still have to grind in game to get stuff to sell to make gold, they keep the TP well stocked and prices stay low. Take away the bots, well most of them, and prices have skyrocketed over that last year. I remember Dawn being 60g. At least the money they make from the couple silver and selling the drops or mats came from in game and will generally stay in game. It’s not some huge influx that just magically appears like what happens with the gem store. The gem store is way worse for the economy that gold sellers. At least the gold the gold sellers are sell came from in game.

I’ve never reported bots because, as a player, bots are in my better interest because they help keep TP prices down. Nearly everything negative that has been said about bots and gold sellers is a myth. They are NOT good for ANet, who wants to make money, but they both benefit players by helping keep stock up and prices down.

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Posted by: sorudo.9054

sorudo.9054

actually you should be able to do it solo, it just has to be extra rewarding in doing so. i don’t feel like the hero when a whole zerg kills a champion in 10 seconds and less, i do when i finally killed a champion on my own or with 3 ppl or less.

an alternative way to make zergs useless reward-wise is by making it so that, the more players are killing the champion the lower the rewards. there is an up and a down with this, the down is that ppl have to search more to get a champion without to many players around, the up side is that zergs become quite useless.

This is a really BAD idea. What you’re saying is, “Let’s design the champ rewards so players are going to actively oppose others joining them in killing a champion.”

players are doing just that, i rather have ppl oppose a champ kill then a zerg rush killing every single champion in the area while others never even have the chance on killing even one.
unless you want the alternative, low level champions have low quality rewards while high and max level champions have high quality reward.
it’s this or that, choose which one you rather want.

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Posted by: danbuter.2314

danbuter.2314

I’m wondering how long it will take for people to realize that thanks to the new magic find system, it might actually be more rewarding to run around in Orr killing mobs.

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Posted by: CreativeAnarchy.6324

CreativeAnarchy.6324

No.

I speak for my self and no one else. Only fools believe they speak for a majority.

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Posted by: thefantasticg.3984

thefantasticg.3984

And, Snowflake Becky, no. Worry about how you play not how other people play. Stop trying to impose your idea of how the game should be played on everyone else. No one needs your kitten like attitude towards farming.

I’m wondering how long it will take for people to realize that thanks to the new magic find system, it might actually be more rewarding to run around in Orr killing mobs.

It’s not.

RNG is a bell curve. Better hope you’re on the right side.

(edited by thefantasticg.3984)

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Posted by: IndigoSundown.5419

IndigoSundown.5419

actually you should be able to do it solo, it just has to be extra rewarding in doing so. i don’t feel like the hero when a whole zerg kills a champion in 10 seconds and less, i do when i finally killed a champion on my own or with 3 ppl or less.

an alternative way to make zergs useless reward-wise is by making it so that, the more players are killing the champion the lower the rewards. there is an up and a down with this, the down is that ppl have to search more to get a champion without to many players around, the up side is that zergs become quite useless.

This is a really BAD idea. What you’re saying is, “Let’s design the champ rewards so players are going to actively oppose others joining them in killing a champion.”

players are doing just that, i rather have ppl oppose a champ kill then a zerg rush killing every single champion in the area while others never even have the chance on killing even one.
unless you want the alternative, low level champions have low quality rewards while high and max level champions have high quality reward.
it’s this or that, choose which one you rather want.

Or, I could choose to let ANet run their game as they see fit. Why do I have to choose between two bad ideas, because you think there’s a problem? The only way to “prevent” herd play in the open world is to make all content equally rewarding (or equally unrewarding, more likely). If that were true, players would either spread out or quit. If you want to kill champs in a small group, go to one of the non-herd zones or go to a dungeon.

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Posted by: sorudo.9054

sorudo.9054

actually you should be able to do it solo, it just has to be extra rewarding in doing so. i don’t feel like the hero when a whole zerg kills a champion in 10 seconds and less, i do when i finally killed a champion on my own or with 3 ppl or less.

an alternative way to make zergs useless reward-wise is by making it so that, the more players are killing the champion the lower the rewards. there is an up and a down with this, the down is that ppl have to search more to get a champion without to many players around, the up side is that zergs become quite useless.

This is a really BAD idea. What you’re saying is, “Let’s design the champ rewards so players are going to actively oppose others joining them in killing a champion.”

players are doing just that, i rather have ppl oppose a champ kill then a zerg rush killing every single champion in the area while others never even have the chance on killing even one.
unless you want the alternative, low level champions have low quality rewards while high and max level champions have high quality reward.
it’s this or that, choose which one you rather want.

Or, I could choose to let ANet run their game as they see fit. Why do I have to choose between two bad ideas, because you think there’s a problem? The only way to “prevent” herd play in the open world is to make all content equally rewarding (or equally unrewarding, more likely). If that were true, players would either spread out or quit. If you want to kill champs in a small group, go to one of the non-herd zones or go to a dungeon.

if you seriously believe there is no problem then you’re more naive then i gave you credit, if we never say anything then Anet never learns from their mistakes.
also, why should i be fleeing areas where zergs happen all the time while it’s not how this should happen, i should not flee that area i should say something about it on the forum to prevent exactly that, as i am doing right now.

really, why should i adjust my play time just because there are players ruining the game, why should i avoid areas because zergs destroy the whole use of that area.
it’s not me, someone who plays the game as it’s meant to, who should be forced out, it’s the zergs who should be punished and be forced to break apart.
since when is an mmo made only for the rotten bunch, since when do new and RP/casual players have to suffer under elitists and since when can we not say anything on the forum because some rotten fruit need their addicted gold/gear/whatever.

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Posted by: Leamas.5803

Leamas.5803

I’m wondering how long it will take for people to realize that thanks to the new magic find system, it might actually be more rewarding to run around in Orr killing mobs.

This might be true only if we assume they fixed the old MF system, which was terribly flawed from the ground up. With the old system, and full MF gear, say 200% or higher, drops actually decreased and profitability went down. The reason is that the old MF system worked on a slotted scale. High magic find, in theory, raises the threshold of what will drop, both at the low end and high end making very low end items and vendor junk less likely to drop and rares/exo more likely to drop. So when I was running full MF (About 250% give or take) in Orr I was getting much less porous bones and whites, but the chances of a rare or exo dropping are increased, in theory.

Here’s where the flawed logic comes in. The chances of a rare or exo dropping are already so incredibly low that increasing it 250% is marginal at best and the increased drop rates certainly not noticeable. The overall result was less money in the bank since most of the money I made in Orr typically came from porous bones, and whites, which were typically vendored at the time, which would not be uncommon for me to get around porous bones at a rate of 100/hr when doing some hardcore farming (Yes, I was very unlucky, certainly on the low end of the scale of anyone I played with at the time).

Other than a bit of stuff with my new guild I haven’t tried playing Orr since starting to play again. My experience from last winter still leaves a sour taste in my mouth.

MF, or luck as they now seem to be calling it, should increase the likelihood of everything dropping. Or, at the very least, it should NEVER lower the likelihood of anything, even vendor trash.

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Posted by: IndigoSundown.5419

IndigoSundown.5419

actually you should be able to do it solo, it just has to be extra rewarding in doing so. i don’t feel like the hero when a whole zerg kills a champion in 10 seconds and less, i do when i finally killed a champion on my own or with 3 ppl or less.

an alternative way to make zergs useless reward-wise is by making it so that, the more players are killing the champion the lower the rewards. there is an up and a down with this, the down is that ppl have to search more to get a champion without to many players around, the up side is that zergs become quite useless.

This is a really BAD idea. What you’re saying is, “Let’s design the champ rewards so players are going to actively oppose others joining them in killing a champion.”

players are doing just that, i rather have ppl oppose a champ kill then a zerg rush killing every single champion in the area while others never even have the chance on killing even one.
unless you want the alternative, low level champions have low quality rewards while high and max level champions have high quality reward.
it’s this or that, choose which one you rather want.

Or, I could choose to let ANet run their game as they see fit. Why do I have to choose between two bad ideas, because you think there’s a problem? The only way to “prevent” herd play in the open world is to make all content equally rewarding (or equally unrewarding, more likely). If that were true, players would either spread out or quit. If you want to kill champs in a small group, go to one of the non-herd zones or go to a dungeon.

if you seriously believe there is no problem then you’re more naive then i gave you credit, if we never say anything then Anet never learns from their mistakes.
also, why should i be fleeing areas where zergs happen all the time while it’s not how this should happen, i should not flee that area i should say something about it on the forum to prevent exactly that, as i am doing right now.

really, why should i adjust my play time just because there are players ruining the game, why should i avoid areas because zergs destroy the whole use of that area.
it’s not me, someone who plays the game as it’s meant to, who should be forced out, it’s the zergs who should be punished and be forced to break apart.
since when is an mmo made only for the rotten bunch, since when do new and RP/casual players have to suffer under elitists and since when can we not say anything on the forum because some rotten fruit need their addicted gold/gear/whatever.

I’m not condoning rudeness, and if the train players’ rudeness prompts ANet to change things, then those players will have cut their own throats. The coin gain from champ bags has been nerfed, and if the economy warrants it, further nerfs will be incoming.

However, the champ trains are people playing as they like. Currently, the game design on champs favors how they like to play. You are asking for the game design to be changed to favor the way you like to play. There’s nothing magical about your preferences over theirs.

Calling other players “rotten” because you don’t like what they’re doing is no better than some of the language seen in chat from train players. You’re free to express your opinions and ask for what you want, but you’re not free to disrespect others. The fact that you saw fit to attack me rather than just attacking my opinions undermines your “righteousness.”

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Posted by: Leamas.5803

Leamas.5803

At least the champ train is people playing together…isn’t this part of what an MMO is supposed to be about?

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Posted by: Kingmutez.4931

Kingmutez.4931

How about killing the same champ over 5 times and get nothing for the rest of the day per toon on that champ. kinda like diminishing returns on DE, force ppl to move on to another train zone/champ/etc. Either way in indifferent about zergs/trains

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Posted by: sorudo.9054

sorudo.9054

actually you should be able to do it solo, it just has to be extra rewarding in doing so. i don’t feel like the hero when a whole zerg kills a champion in 10 seconds and less, i do when i finally killed a champion on my own or with 3 ppl or less.

an alternative way to make zergs useless reward-wise is by making it so that, the more players are killing the champion the lower the rewards. there is an up and a down with this, the down is that ppl have to search more to get a champion without to many players around, the up side is that zergs become quite useless.

This is a really BAD idea. What you’re saying is, “Let’s design the champ rewards so players are going to actively oppose others joining them in killing a champion.”

players are doing just that, i rather have ppl oppose a champ kill then a zerg rush killing every single champion in the area while others never even have the chance on killing even one.
unless you want the alternative, low level champions have low quality rewards while high and max level champions have high quality reward.
it’s this or that, choose which one you rather want.

Or, I could choose to let ANet run their game as they see fit. Why do I have to choose between two bad ideas, because you think there’s a problem? The only way to “prevent” herd play in the open world is to make all content equally rewarding (or equally unrewarding, more likely). If that were true, players would either spread out or quit. If you want to kill champs in a small group, go to one of the non-herd zones or go to a dungeon.

if you seriously believe there is no problem then you’re more naive then i gave you credit, if we never say anything then Anet never learns from their mistakes.
also, why should i be fleeing areas where zergs happen all the time while it’s not how this should happen, i should not flee that area i should say something about it on the forum to prevent exactly that, as i am doing right now.

really, why should i adjust my play time just because there are players ruining the game, why should i avoid areas because zergs destroy the whole use of that area.
it’s not me, someone who plays the game as it’s meant to, who should be forced out, it’s the zergs who should be punished and be forced to break apart.
since when is an mmo made only for the rotten bunch, since when do new and RP/casual players have to suffer under elitists and since when can we not say anything on the forum because some rotten fruit need their addicted gold/gear/whatever.

I’m not condoning rudeness, and if the train players’ rudeness prompts ANet to change things, then those players will have cut their own throats. The coin gain from champ bags has been nerfed, and if the economy warrants it, further nerfs will be incoming.

However, the champ trains are people playing as they like. Currently, the game design on champs favors how they like to play. You are asking for the game design to be changed to favor the way you like to play. There’s nothing magical about your preferences over theirs.

Calling other players “rotten” because you don’t like what they’re doing is no better than some of the language seen in chat from train players. You’re free to express your opinions and ask for what you want, but you’re not free to disrespect others. The fact that you saw fit to attack me rather than just attacking my opinions undermines your “righteousness.”

you’re constantly dishing my way of playing the game, making me a lesser man yet i am being rude here?
you’re disrespecting my way of playing the game and so are all the zerg farms, think really hard about what you’re going to say before replying.

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Posted by: Orswich.6423

Orswich.6423

In the last weeks it became clear to me that certain groups of players are exploiting the high respawn rate of champions to farm massive amounts of gold and items. That behavior probably has an negative effect on the ingame market. But that’s not even the main reason for my posting this. I am really frustrated by the way some of those players are killing the atmosphere on maps like Queensdale and Frostgorge Sound. Constantly flaming and insulting other players because someone dared to kill THEIR champion without them…

I know Anet is not in the least responsible for the behavior of the players but I think some mechanics in GW2 make farming way too easy!

My suggestions to make zerg-farming less worthwhile:

1. If more players are involved in a fight, the champ should become much stronger, so that you cannot just autohit-kill it in less than a minute!

2. Those champions should be able to hit more than five players with their attacks. Either remove that limit completely or make it dynamically adjust to the number of players.

3. The time until champion/event respawn should be much longer!

I hope other ppl will give their suggestions to this problem as well. Please refrain from flaming and stay objective

Rian Dreamweaver

I totally Agree!!! Espacially since som eppl become compleatly mad about others killing “their” champ too early…..

yeah we get that in frostgorge once and a while when we get the quaggan guild event.. we kill the champ worm because it oneshots people trying to do the rush, and when the zerg shows up we get called all sorts of names.. some people understand and say “guild rush” and move on, while other decide its time to flame people actually trying to play the game

Orswich/Schwabenghast [ING/Ankh] Dragonbrand commander
and sometimes even a decent human being

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Posted by: IndigoSundown.5419

IndigoSundown.5419

you’re constantly dishing my way of playing the game, making me a lesser man yet i am being rude here?

I criticized your idea for changing the game. I said nothing about your “way of playing the game.” You posted a personal attack in response. There’s a difference.

you’re disrespecting my way of playing the game and so are all the zerg farms, think really hard about what you’re going to say before replying.

I have nothing against you playing the game the way you want to, nor do I have anything against the players running farm trains. However, I see no reason to favor your preferences over theirs. If you think that’s disrespect, I can’t help you. There’s room in the game for both play-styles.

You seem to think that your way of playing is right, while theirs is wrong. If you want to try to convince ANet of that, go for it, but game design has been pushing people into playing in packs for months. Don’t expect people to be in favor of ideas to “fix” things that will create more problems, though.

If you don’t want to take your play-style to under-populated zones, then do want you want in the zerg zones. I support you in doing so, as much as I support them in playing as they want. No less, but no more.

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Posted by: Leamas.5803

Leamas.5803

There is no right or wrong way to play this game as long as you are enjoying what you are doing. If you, or anyone, doesn’t like what someone is doing, that’s your problem, no theirs. There are all kinds of play styles.

  1. Believe it or not, some people like grinding for hours on end and find relaxation in the mindless repetition. Be it destroyers in Mount Maelstrom or the champ train, they just do their thing, they get what they get and move on.
  2. Others are dungeon/fractal addicts and will run the same dungeon over and over again much like grinders will grind the same area for hours.
  3. Others prefer solo tasks such as exploration and only group up when they have to.
  4. Others jump from world boss to world boss
  5. Others prefer the money markets and like to play the trading post.
  6. Then there are the PvP and WvW folks which is another area all in of itself.

Many of those who engage in highly repetitive tasks are farming for specific items they need to craft something or farming gold to buy items they need to craft something. It’s the ONLY way to get what’s needed for things like legendary weapons. For example, every legendary weapon requires a full stack (250) of every T6 material and is a small part of what’s needed in order to craft the legendary…500 dungeon tokens, 500 badges of honor, almost a full stack of ecto, nearly 2 full stacks of obsidian shards, 100 icy runestones, 2 specific crafts at 400, which you need a ton more material to achieve. That is still just the beginning, then you get in to specific legendaries, say The Bifrost, which needs 100 more icy runestones 2 more full stacks of crystalline dust, a full stack of unidentified dyes, 100 pearl orbs. The list just goes on… Tell me…how to get this without grinding your butt off either for the specific mats or for gold to buy it? The game is designed for grind…get over it.

Myself I do a little bit of all of the above…including the highly taboo playing the market. I’m not moving hundreds of gold, but I make enough to cover my costs for sure. Probably less that I would make grinding, but it’s more enjoyable to me. This game is far too big, with way too much to do to be complaining about a few champions. Since champ rewards were nerfed last week the reward really isn’t so earth shattering to be complaining about and almost not worth running the champs anymore. I haven’t gotten a rare, or god forbid, an exotic the last few times I ran FS and barely made enough to cover the wp fees. I only run it to collect Essence of Luck for MF and to help out with the monthly salvage achievement. And this is playing the game wrong how?

(edited by Leamas.5803)

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Posted by: sorudo.9054

sorudo.9054

ok, what about this, as long as the zerg trains exist, it ruins my play style.
no zerg fest, no problem, simple enough for yah?

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Posted by: Sickle.6502

Sickle.6502

ok, what about this, as long as the zerg trains exist, it ruins my play style.
no zerg fest, no problem, simple enough for yah?

I’m with him/her….them.