Guild Wars 2

My agreement level is over 9000.

Rapid Agility.5873:

Hi Anet + community.
No one cares about the fight anymore if you’re not on a top tier server.

Well, I am in a top tier (Europe) and no one cares about that anymore because Viz completely dominate it!

We can’t even move down a tier because they don’t want to be in tier 1 either because they don’t want to fight Viz…

Need completely random matches every reset to make it more fun…

P.S.
Sounds like you haven’t got much gold but can I have what u got anyway before you walk through the exit door?

So go find a game you enjoy playing. Out of curiousity how many hours have you played Guild Wars 2 for?

Vayne.8563:

So go find a game you enjoy playing. Out of curiousity how many hours have you played Guild Wars 2 for?

Around 500

So for your 60 or 80 dollars you got 500 hour out of the game. I’d say you’ve done well. There are very few newly launched MMOs that can sustain even nearly that many hours. Content takes time to develop. Fixes take time to develop. Most newly released MMOs take a year or two to mature. Many never make it, because they’re so kitten bad, you can’t even play them for 500 hours (Warhammer comes to mind here).

In a year or two, there’ll be a lot more things to do, things will run more smooth and yes, it will be easier to get money. Because when Guild Wars 1 launched it was quite difficult to get money.

I think the idea behind this is to try to slow down progress. make it take longer for people to get what they want while they work on actual content. All MMOs do this to one degree or another. They either use RNG to make it hard, or lock outs (like the WoW raids once did, don’t know if they strill do), or mega grind for levels to make people move slowly enough through the game.

No company can make content faster than people can consume it. Most of your very legitimate complaints have to do with the factors of slowing down play.

Because if everyone had enough money to buy what they want now, without having to work toward anything, a big percentage of the population would just walk away.

Well I have to say I’ve had my monies worth out of GW2.

But, I am getting a bit bored with it (Don’t say take a break).

Bit fed up with the nerfing, DR, RNG, daily, monthly, only one chest a day crap, seems like Anet want to screw us into the ground.

Just keeping my eyes open for something that will be better, and registering for beta’s (Been on a couple).

Something will be along soon.

I’d like to add that I feel the same way as the OP. Bored. Disappointed. Frustrated. Haven’t logged on and played anything for weeks, with the exception of one run through the new dungeon.

And for those who seem to care about these things: about 10000 hours in GW. A few hundred in GW2. It’s just far more annoying than fun. It sure had potential. I have to wonder where that potential went…

Send items to Lawe please. Still trying to get my legendary and about 500 gold short

Heijincks.9267:

Rapid Agility.5873:

4) RNG. RNG. RNG. Anet this is so stupidly greedy, and frustrating I cannot even begin to explain. RNG is single handed the worst thing I’ve seen in this game. Offer at least other alternatives to getting items from the black lion shop. I dropped at least 200g attempting to get my molten skin. I’ve heard even worse stories! I understand that you guys need to make some coin as well, but this isn’t the way to do it. This makes the game scream “Cheap Asian pay2lookgood mmo market”.

If you think RNG is bad in this game, clearly you haven’t played many MMOs. Also, for cheap Asian MMOs it’s “pay2win”, not “pay2lookgood”.

Not many MMOs have “pay2lookgood” only.

Just because my co-worker or competitor does a bad job doesn’t mean it’s OK for me to just get away with a marginally better one.

Just because some other MMO does it wrong doesn’t mean it’s OK to be not quite as bad. I wish studios (and people) would figure that out.

Vayne.8563:

So for your 60 or 80 dollars you got 500 hour out of the game. I’d say you’ve done well. There are very few newly launched MMOs that can sustain even nearly that many hours. Content takes time to develop. Fixes take time to develop. Most newly released MMOs take a year or two to mature. Many never make it, because they’re so kitten bad, you can’t even play them for 500 hours (Warhammer comes to mind here).

You realize his and many others hours would continue to rise if a lot of the OP problems were fixed, if i had more money to use i’d be in game looking for ways to spend it, not on the forum asking for fixes that are needed since Nov last year.. I’m wondering if GW2 will be another Warhammer to be honest..

Chuo.4238:

Heijincks.9267:

Rapid Agility.5873:

4) RNG. RNG. RNG. Anet this is so stupidly greedy, and frustrating I cannot even begin to explain. RNG is single handed the worst thing I’ve seen in this game. Offer at least other alternatives to getting items from the black lion shop. I dropped at least 200g attempting to get my molten skin. I’ve heard even worse stories! I understand that you guys need to make some coin as well, but this isn’t the way to do it. This makes the game scream “Cheap Asian pay2lookgood mmo market”.

If you think RNG is bad in this game, clearly you haven’t played many MMOs. Also, for cheap Asian MMOs it’s “pay2win”, not “pay2lookgood”.

Not many MMOs have “pay2lookgood” only.

Just because my co-worker or competitor does a bad job doesn’t mean it’s OK for me to just get away with a marginally better one.

Just because some other MMO does it wrong doesn’t mean it’s OK to be not quite as bad. I wish studios (and people) would figure that out.

You’re absolutely right. There’s no excuse for a game to do something, just because other games do it.

However, sometimes things evolve a certain way for reasons that aren’t always obvious at a casual glance. People go into jobs all the time and immediately see better ways of doing things…until they’re on the job for a few months and they realize a lot of the stuff they would have suggested wouldn’t work.

Here’s the problem in a nutshell. No developer can make content fast enough for content locusts. People consume content far too fast to stay ahead of the pack. The problem is, people expect to play MMOs non-stop for months on end. During which time, no matter how much content is there, the developer needs to do something to slow down progress. This is done in every mmo and it’s done in different ways.

WoW when it introduced raids in the beginning, introduced really really hard content, but also they locked people out of that content, only allowing to run that content 1x per week. Those raid lockouts came at a price, because you’d need the gear for that raid to go to the new raid when it came out. But gear didn’t drop in every run and didn’t drop for everyone. You were actually competing with your own team mates or guild or pug for the item that dropped. So you could conceivably do an entire dungeon with no reward except what dropped. In Guild Wars 2, you get tokens for dungeons which can be used to buy stuff, but instead of lockouts they have diminishing returns. But there are three dungeon paths and you can run all of them every day if you wanted to.

Some games, like Rift, gave you tons and tons of limited time events, each one ending when the next one began and each with it’s own currency, giving you a new mini or a new mount or a new something. The offshot of this was you’d have to do that content every day, the same daily quests over and over to get that stuff. Because the content in Rift was VERY limited at launch, they had to keep putting out stuff like the dailies to keep people playing, but unlike Guild Wars 2, those dailies were unique.

Basically speaking, things like legendaries and hard to get stuff needs to take a long time to get. You can make it RNG, you can use lock outs, you can use anything, but it’s been shown time and time again that when people run out of things to get they often leave games.

And yes, some people will leave the game if stuff is too hard or takes too long to get too. But in my experience, it’s a smaller percentage of those who leave who have nothing to work towards.

Guild Wars 2 is where most MMORPGs are at this stage in its development. It’s trying to find ways to slow people down, so that they cant’ get everything they want in a month. Some people see that as intolerable and artificial…because it is. It’s terrible.

But the alternative, losing a bigger percentage of the players because they’re not doing it is pretty bad too.

So what’s the solution? No other MMO has found a way around this trap.

Vayne.8563:

Guild Wars 2 is where most MMORPGs are at this stage in its development. It’s trying to find ways to slow people down, so that they cant’ get everything they want in a month. Some people see that as intolerable and artificial…because it is. It’s terrible.

But the alternative, losing a bigger percentage of the players because they’re not doing it is pretty bad too.

So what’s the solution? No other MMO has found a way around this trap.

I sure as heck didn’t put thousands of hours into Guild Wars because I felt that I needed to keep up with the latest gear, currency, or any of that other obsessive junk. I actually enjoyed playing the game. PvE is interesting, it’s easy to experience it through a variety of character class types and playstyles, and the PvP is among the best in the industry. Everything from RA to GvG, and all in between. Something for everyone. Fun game. Very fun game.

Perhaps if, for GW2, they’d focused on making a game that’s actually fun, and one that people want to play, instead of falling into the common trap of trying to manipulate people into playing, they might just have made that revolutionary MMO that we all expected before launch.

As it stands, they’ve had some pretty good ideas, but the overall concept, implementation, and ‘feel’ of the game is more obsessive than fun. And there really is no depth to the content.

Dont see myself getting sick of this game anytime soon, id love some WvW improvements though. Good luck whatever you play.

Anet needs to check out how the RNG affected Tera….its F2P now and lost a lot of servers. That should speak volumes to how fun RNG is when it’s tied to a key component in the game(top tier weapons for Tera and legendaries for GW2).

I definitely got my money’s worth with GW2.
Played about 1200 hours over the course of 6 months (28th Aug → Feb), going deep into PvE/PvP/WvW, but honestly this is only because I maxed 3 characters with all the skins I wanted etc else I’d have lasted a lot less.

I feel GW2 overall lacks longevity.
Those timed events only get me back for a couple days before I log out again.
GW1 on the other hand had that thing… you had to cap elites, secondary profs, gearing henches, hardmodes, etc.

PvE lacks endgame variety and challenge, WvW lacks depth (maybe add wood/stone resources, harder-to-get towers/keeps, more meaningful experience overall), sPvP lacks modes and stat combos.

Honestly most of what kept me playing was the combat.
No other MMO goes remotely close to the awesomeness of GW2’s combat and I’d definitely recommend the game to anyone just for this.

Chuo.4238:

Vayne.8563:

Guild Wars 2 is where most MMORPGs are at this stage in its development. It’s trying to find ways to slow people down, so that they cant’ get everything they want in a month. Some people see that as intolerable and artificial…because it is. It’s terrible.

But the alternative, losing a bigger percentage of the players because they’re not doing it is pretty bad too.

So what’s the solution? No other MMO has found a way around this trap.

I sure as heck didn’t put thousands of hours into Guild Wars because I felt that I needed to keep up with the latest gear, currency, or any of that other obsessive junk. I actually enjoyed playing the game. PvE is interesting, it’s easy to experience it through a variety of character class types and playstyles, and the PvP is among the best in the industry. Everything from RA to GvG, and all in between. Something for everyone. Fun game. Very fun game.

Perhaps if, for GW2, they’d focused on making a game that’s actually fun, and one that people want to play, instead of falling into the common trap of trying to manipulate people into playing, they might just have made that revolutionary MMO that we all expected before launch.

As it stands, they’ve had some pretty good ideas, but the overall concept, implementation, and ‘feel’ of the game is more obsessive than fun. And there really is no depth to the content.

With all due respect, I doubt seriously you put thousands of hours into Prophecies by the 9 month mark. In fact, a good portion of people who played Prophecies originally left before the six month mark. Most common complain. Nothing to do.

It’s an old story.

Sure Prophecies itself had great PvP. I agree with that. But the rest of the game, once you beat it, left much to be desired. Only so many times you can run FoW and the Underworld in normal mode.

Vayne.8563:

Here’s the problem in a nutshell. No developer can make content fast enough for content locusts.

Especially if they keep on making new temporary content. Sure, the current content locusts may not be appeased for long with new permanent content, but any new content locusts who swarm into the game would have more and more and more content to devour (thus slowing them down) if the new content added along the way was not temporary.

There is no excuse for (non-seasonal) temporary content.

Tachenon.5270:

Vayne.8563:

Here’s the problem in a nutshell. No developer can make content fast enough for content locusts.

Especially if they keep on making new temporary content. Sure, the current content locusts may not be appeased for long with new permanent content, but any new content locusts who swarm into the game would have more and more and more content to devour (thus slowing them down) if the new content added along the way was not temporary.

There is no excuse for (non-seasonal) temporary content.

They’ve already hinted here that it’ll be changed into a fractal. Worry-thee-not.

ColinJohanson.2394:

Atlas.9704:

Colin will there ever be a part of Fractals that allow us to play a recap of old content?
Stuff like that would be a win-win for those who want Fractals and others who long to play older stuff as well.

When I said we could update or change an existing dungeon, updating fractals in the future is one of the options that’s fully possible yes. And of course since fractals lets us experience moments trapped in time….it’s entirely possible some content may make its way there as part of a living world update.

Rapid Agility.5873:

Lack of changing content in WvWvW. Been playing WvW since the start, and man this got bland stupidly quick. I’ve had even taken up commanding, and dropped 100g for the tag, but quite frankly it only made the game fun for about a week or so, until you realize that it’s still the same old thing. The titles need work, as do the ranks.

REWARDS <—- That’s what we need for WvW.
People get tired of running the same content over and over and over again that’s unrewarding.

Some Reward Suggestion:
- Badges in exchange for Dungeon Tokens
- More WvW Armor/Weapon Skins.
- Random Servers match-up like before. As to avoid 2 serves teaming up against 1 server all the time.
- Elder Dragons that spawn at random times so it could change the tide of the battle. A good example are like those bosses that spawn in s/tPvp.
- Laurels

Just some examples.
Cause now its just flip camps, take keep, defend keep, zerg in zerg out over and over again. With what rewards? Loot? We get better junk running Pent/Shelt tbh.

Not to be " that guy" but it does sound you’ve got good money’s worth out of the game. Come back in a bit and see what new.

On a side note, everyone seems to get this feeling of entitlement like this is their game. It’s Anets game and we all purchased a licence to use this software. What they do with it is there’s and no matter how much you all think they screw you over, it’s their game and I’m sure they have the numbers and reasoning to design the game as they see fit to fit the majority of gamers.

And I would like to say, hey developers, great game. I couldn’t imagine having to read these forums. Imagine if you had 1000 people callin yiu out at work all day sayin yiu suck and did a horrible job.

Metamega.9025:

I couldn’t imagine having to read these forums. Imagine if you had 1000 people callin yiu out at work all day sayin yiu suck and did a horrible job.

Even when you are sleeping on the job?
Fixing the engine of a car when the tyres are flat?
Just sit there and stare into space when customers are asking questions?
Making productive sales report for selling cookies instead of real estates?

Just a question.
Do you post/reply to those mmo forums that you hate?
People post, reply, suggest, comment in forums cause they like the game and want it to do well. If they are not interested, they could not be bothered to read it.

Jabronee.9465:

Metamega.9025:

I couldn’t imagine having to read these forums. Imagine if you had 1000 people callin yiu out at work all day sayin yiu suck and did a horrible job.

Even when you are sleeping on the job?
Fixing the engine of a car when the tyres are flat?
Just sit there and stare into space when customers are asking questions?
Making productive sales report for selling cookies instead of real estates?

Just a question.
Do you post/reply to those mmo forums that you hate?
People post, reply, suggest, comment in forums cause the like the game and want it to do well. If they are not interested, they can’t be bothered read it.

The Anet is “sleeping on the job” though, is both an assumption and an opinion. There have been many bug fixes. There’s been some new content. I think those who don’t work in the industry have no idea how long stuff like this takes, so they make assumptions. Anet isn’t doing anything. How do you know? How does anyone know?

I used to manage a computer store, years ago, and we had a backlog of repairs sometimes. And sometimes we’d have to wait for parts, because distributors had a backlog of orders. And people would call up and accuse us of procrastinating, because we didn’t get to THEIR machine. As if their machine was the only important machine and all the other machines taken in before theirs are totally irrelevant.

Some people are mad because their class is “broken” or their problem isn’t solved. Well, some of my problems aren’t solved either.

I just recognize that there’s a lot of stuff to work on and it takes time. Those who don’t want to believe it can keep complaining. But bug fixes and balance will only happen on Anet’s schedule, not yours.

It doesn’t mean they’re lazy or sleeping on the job. It means these things take time. You either wait, or you don’t.

Vayne.8563:

It doesn’t mean they’re lazy or sleeping on the job. It means these things take time. You either wait, or you don’t.

That’s understandable, and I fully agree at the rate the changes are being rolled out. There are small things that could have been implemented to keep people interested though. I doubt throwing in an extra vendor, OR slot in a vendor is that difficult. People will put time estimates with no prior knowledge of game design/ programming based on the size & scale of the request.

What I’m having an issue with is when nearly ALL players come to a general consensus about a certain topic for the BETTER of the game, and Anet simply brushes it off. In terms of marketing, this is a freaking joke. You have your customers not only developing creative ideas to many of the issues, but also giving you a way to hold their attention longer.. FOR FREE!!!!!! People want to see this game succeed!

Grind-wise so far, I feel that dungeons are fair. Including the tokens they offer. It feels reasonable, and gives it that GW1 vibe of how long it usually takes to get a certain skin/item.

Also The Diminishing Returns effect has got to be the bane of any player. Such a crappy implementation. Anet is punishing players for attempting to farm a single mob for whatever mat/item they need. 100 charged lodestones, hah yeah right. You hit DR and it’s downhill from there in terms of farming, then you have ancient folktale that if you stand on one leg, and hold your breath for 30 seconds it’ll go away. Cmon we shouldn’t have to worry about these silly little things. You’re striking peoples ability to make money in game, once again. I don’t know if this was some sort of screwed up plan to keep people playing, but man it just makes the game more frustrating to play more than anything else.

Everyone know things take time to fix.
But Priority is the word here.
When they prioritised certain aspect of the game, it became unfair for another type of crowd who paid the same $60 for the game.

For example,
Some players have no interest in Pvp. But they could get BiS items that can be use in Pvp (WvW).
Some players have no interst in PvE. But they must PvE just to get BiS item to Pvp (WvW).
What they should had done was to make BiS items obtainable to both type of crowd.
Or never implement it at all.

some pretty stupid arguments why GW2 is worse than GW1 here

1.) GW1 did not have any kind of WvW. I would understand a critic about the lack of PvE content, but not WvW.

2.) GW1s way to make money was not that different, farming farming farming and then you could buy what… 5 or 6 different pieces. I agree that the way to get money is bad, but comparing this with GW1 and stating that it was good there… just no.

3.) agree

4.) agree

So if you want to tell people that GW1 was superior, use the right arguments.

Marcus Greythorne.6843:

some pretty stupid arguments why GW2 is worse than GW1 here

1.) GW1 did not have any kind of WvW. I would understand a critic about the lack of PvE content, but not WvW.

2.) GW1s way to make money was not that different, farming farming farming and then you could buy what… 5 or 6 different pieces. I agree that the way to get money is bad, but comparing this with GW1 and stating that it was good there… just no.

3.) agree

4.) agree

So if you want to tell people that GW1 was superior, use the right arguments.

I’m not kittenizing GW2 for failing to be like it’s father. If out of my post all you got was “GW1 IS BETTER THAN GW2” than you may wish to reassess your analytical skills. GW1 did however have an easier system of getting certain armor sets, and generally cool looking items, now don’t confuse this with faster, but rather easier, and more enjoyable. 100g+ in this game for a typical player isn’t easy to get, at all. Let alone the cost it takes to get a precursor! However if you want the non-bland skins in this game, that’s what you have to dish out for it.

1) Why go back to do the PvE content if it’s not helping my efforts in getting gold. Also closest thing to WvW was GvG which was multiple times more times competitive, and fun.

2) That’s understandable, however I wasn’t comparing the gw2 economy to the gw1 economy.

Rapid Agility.5873:

Vayne.8563:

It doesn’t mean they’re lazy or sleeping on the job. It means these things take time. You either wait, or you don’t.

That’s understandable, and I fully agree at the rate the changes are being rolled out. There are small things that could have been implemented to keep people interested though. I doubt throwing in an extra vendor, OR slot in a vendor is that difficult. People will put time estimates with no prior knowledge of game design/ programming based on the size & scale of the request.

What I’m having an issue with is when nearly ALL players come to a general consensus about a certain topic for the BETTER of the game, and Anet simply brushes it off. In terms of marketing, this is a freaking joke. You have your customers not only developing creative ideas to many of the issues, but also giving you a way to hold their attention longer.. FOR FREE!!!!!! People want to see this game succeed!

Grind-wise so far, I feel that dungeons are fair. Including the tokens they offer. It feels reasonable, and gives it that GW1 vibe of how long it usually takes to get a certain skin/item.

Also The Diminishing Returns effect has got to be the bane of any player. Such a crappy implementation. Anet is punishing players for attempting to farm a single mob for whatever mat/item they need. 100 charged lodestones, hah yeah right. You hit DR and it’s downhill from there in terms of farming, then you have ancient folktale that if you stand on one leg, and hold your breath for 30 seconds it’ll go away. Cmon we shouldn’t have to worry about these silly little things. You’re striking peoples ability to make money in game, once again. I don’t know if this was some sort of screwed up plan to keep people playing, but man it just makes the game more frustrating to play more than anything else.

I think that you’d be surprised about what “all” the players will and won’t agree on. It’s just not that simple.

There are plenty of things you’d say, oh yes, that’s absolutely a must. I remember the LFG debate on the Rift forum like it was yesterday. More than half the people posting in that thread were AGAINST an LFG tool. I know this sounds amazing, but it’s also true. It was insane.

People want dueling, but whenever a thread is posted on it, half the people respond that they don’t want it.

Most people DO believe that certain professions need to be buffed but the question then becomes what’s the best way to buff them. If you buff them so much that they become OP you have another problem. So Anet takes a lot of time deliberating and, yes, trying out new things.

We have no idea what they’ve tried and haven’t tried on their test servers. Have they made attempts to buff the engineer. We don’t know. It’s entirely possible what they tried didn’t work and they’re still making adjustments.

But getting everyone to agree on anything is really really difficult.

Vayne.8563:

Rapid Agility.5873:

Vayne.8563:

It doesn’t mean they’re lazy or sleeping on the job. It means these things take time. You either wait, or you don’t.

That’s understandable, and I fully agree at the rate the changes are being rolled out. There are small things that could have been implemented to keep people interested though. I doubt throwing in an extra vendor, OR slot in a vendor is that difficult. People will put time estimates with no prior knowledge of game design/ programming based on the size & scale of the request.

What I’m having an issue with is when nearly ALL players come to a general consensus about a certain topic for the BETTER of the game, and Anet simply brushes it off. In terms of marketing, this is a freaking joke. You have your customers not only developing creative ideas to many of the issues, but also giving you a way to hold their attention longer.. FOR FREE!!!!!! People want to see this game succeed!

Grind-wise so far, I feel that dungeons are fair. Including the tokens they offer. It feels reasonable, and gives it that GW1 vibe of how long it usually takes to get a certain skin/item.

Also The Diminishing Returns effect has got to be the bane of any player. Such a crappy implementation. Anet is punishing players for attempting to farm a single mob for whatever mat/item they need. 100 charged lodestones, hah yeah right. You hit DR and it’s downhill from there in terms of farming, then you have ancient folktale that if you stand on one leg, and hold your breath for 30 seconds it’ll go away. Cmon we shouldn’t have to worry about these silly little things. You’re striking peoples ability to make money in game, once again. I don’t know if this was some sort of screwed up plan to keep people playing, but man it just makes the game more frustrating to play more than anything else.

I think that you’d be surprised about what “all” the players will and won’t agree on. It’s just not that simple.

There are plenty of things you’d say, oh yes, that’s absolutely a must. I remember the LFG debate on the Rift forum like it was yesterday. More than half the people posting in that thread were AGAINST an LFG tool. I know this sounds amazing, but it’s also true. It was insane.

People want dueling, but whenever a thread is posted on it, half the people respond that they don’t want it.

Most people DO believe that certain professions need to be buffed but the question then becomes what’s the best way to buff them. If you buff them so much that they become OP you have another problem. So Anet takes a lot of time deliberating and, yes, trying out new things.

We have no idea what they’ve tried and haven’t tried on their test servers. Have they made attempts to buff the engineer. We don’t know. It’s entirely possible what they tried didn’t work and they’re still making adjustments.

But getting everyone to agree on anything is really really difficult.

I seriously doubt anyone would be against the idea of having an easier way to get precursors for example. The only people that would QQ over something like that , are the ones that currently have one up in the auction house. There are changes that just make sense, and would add a huge element of fun to the game. Duelling could be one of them, if you don’t want to duel, then just don’t do it. I fail to see why someone would be against other people doing it.

Rapid Agility.5873:

Also being primarily a WvW player, it’s been one of the worst reward systems the game has to offer. There is no incentives other than the thrill of open world PvP. No one cares about the fight anymore if you’re not on a top tier server.

That’s it for my rant for now I guess, I’m just disappointed, and sick of how repetitive this game has gotten.

You mean people actually cared about the negligible bonuses from WvW in the first place?! Oh boy I sure can’t live without that +10% exp from KILLS, what would I do without that extra 10-20exp per kill?

This game does have way too much basis on RNG. It’s ridiculous how much is involved. I honestly thought MMOs had moved past this, but every time I log into GW2 I suddenly have flashbacks of dungeon runs in Vanilla WoW trying to get that last piece of t1 for my priest by running over… and over… and over… and those aren’t good memories :-P

Rapid Agility.5873:

Vayne.8563:

Rapid Agility.5873:

Vayne.8563:

It doesn’t mean they’re lazy or sleeping on the job. It means these things take time. You either wait, or you don’t.

That’s understandable, and I fully agree at the rate the changes are being rolled out. There are small things that could have been implemented to keep people interested though. I doubt throwing in an extra vendor, OR slot in a vendor is that difficult. People will put time estimates with no prior knowledge of game design/ programming based on the size & scale of the request.

snip

Grind-wise so far, I feel that dungeons are fair. Including the tokens they offer. It feels reasonable, and gives it that GW1 vibe of how long it usually takes to get a certain skin/item.

Also The Diminishing Returns effect has got to be the bane of any player. Such a crappy implementation. Anet is punishing players for attempting to farm a single mob for whatever mat/item they need. 100 charged lodestones, hah yeah right. You hit DR and it’s downhill from there in terms of farming, then you have ancient folktale that if you stand on one leg, and hold your breath for 30 seconds it’ll go away. Cmon we shouldn’t have to worry about these silly little things. You’re striking peoples ability to make money in game, once again. I don’t know if this was some sort of screwed up plan to keep people playing, but man it just makes the game more frustrating to play more than anything else.

I think that you’d be surprised about what “all” the players will and won’t agree on. It’s just not that simple.

There are plenty of things you’d say, oh yes, that’s absolutely a must. I remember the LFG debate on the Rift forum like it was yesterday. More than half the people posting in that thread were AGAINST an LFG tool. I know this sounds amazing, but it’s also true. It was insane.

People want dueling, but whenever a thread is posted on it, half the people respond that they don’t want it.

Most people DO believe that certain professions need to be buffed but the question then becomes what’s the best way to buff them. If you buff them so much that they become OP you have another problem. So Anet takes a lot of time deliberating and, yes, trying out new things.

We have no idea what they’ve tried and haven’t tried on their test servers. Have they made attempts to buff the engineer. We don’t know. It’s entirely possible what they tried didn’t work and they’re still making adjustments.

But getting everyone to agree on anything is really really difficult.

I seriously doubt anyone would be against the idea of having an easier way to get precursors for example. The only people that would QQ over something like that , are the ones that currently have one up in the auction house. There are changes just make sense, and would add a huge element of fun to the game. Duelling could be one of them, if you don’t want to duel, then just don’t do it. I fail to see why someone would be against other people doing it.

I’ve said this before in other threads, but I’ll say it here again.

First of all, believe it or not, in precursor threads, some people HAVE said it shouldn’t be easier. I know it’s hard to believe, but yeah, it’s been said. I don’t personally agree with that, but that doesn’t mean there are people out there who REALLY want legendaries to be ultra rare. So yeah, not everyone agrees.

More to the point is my opinion of why Anet set it up this way. They’ve learned over the years that people that get everything they want in a game, and have nothing to work for leave the game. There’s simply not enough to do in new MMOs for a percentage of the playerbase. Every single MMO out there does stuff to slow down progress, until enough content is out to keep people playing. This usually takes a year or two after release.

So some games use lockouts, some use ridiculously hard content (which they later nerf), and some games use really bad RNG. No matter what, Anet is doing what they feel is good for the game.

Let’s say Anet caves and makes precusors MUCH easier to get (they’re already made them a bit easier to get, with the world events and guild missions).

What if a bunch of people get lengendaries, get bored and leave the game. Is that really the best thing for the player base?

Game design decisions happen for all sorts of reasons, and we don’t know them all. So judging why something is or isn’t in the game is like backseat driving. Sometimes, the driver really does know what’s going on.

Horses for courses. I found GW1 interesting but it didn’t hook me at all. GW2 has hooked me. Just the change to a full-on open world has made all the difference for me. The world instancing in GW1 was too much of a barrier for me to enjoy the PvE. The combat in GW1 felt “floaty” and lots of the abilities didn’t do much. The combat in GW2 feels “solid” and every time I change the build there’s a definite, noticeable difference in playstyle.

It’s all just personal preferences. I think in the end GW2 is likely to hook more people than GW1 did, but I appreciate that for some of those who loved GW1 this game is likely to be a bit disappointing.

The main thing I think that’s different for me is that I can pick up GW2 and put it down, and enjoy it each time I pick it up. I never got that from GW1, it felt like a chore to pick it up again. In this age of casual MMOs, I think GW2’s got a good chance of keeping people interested in that way. But it’s not going to satisfy people who like living 24/7 in their MMO.

Sauzo.6821:

Anet needs to check out how the RNG affected Tera….its F2P now and lost a lot of servers. That should speak volumes to how fun RNG is when it’s tied to a key component in the game(top tier weapons for Tera and legendaries for GW2).

I hear GW2 might be going F2P any day now

GW1 was not an mmorpg GW2 is there are just some truth you must deal with when playing an mmorpg vs a non mmorpg.

Vayne.8563:

So for your 60 or 80 dollars you got 500 hour out of the game. I’d say you’ve done well. There are very few newly launched MMOs that can sustain even nearly that many hours.

Despite all our hopes to the contrary, it looks like GW2 will just be another one of “those” MMOs.

Guns and Giblets.9308:

Vayne.8563:

So for your 60 or 80 dollars you got 500 hour out of the game. I’d say you’ve done well. There are very few newly launched MMOs that can sustain even nearly that many hours.

Despite all our hopes to the contrary, it looks like GW2 will just be another one of “those” MMOs.

Actually, I don’t think this is true at all. I think time will prove you wrong. A lot depends on other MMOs coming out…maybe Wildstar, but I think Guild Wars 2 is going to have enough people to have quite a strong showing for quite a long time.

You don’t like the game, so this is your opinion of it. But there really are plenty of people in game…and plenty of people who not only like it, but love it.

In the end, you don’t know any more than I do what will be. In a year or two, we’ll know for sure.

2. There are plenty of ways to make money in the game
4. Guild Wars 1 had plenty of RNG too.
I recently bought Guild Wars 1. Guild Wars 2 is very different from it. Guild Wars 1 feels more like a traditional MMO type single player game with the ability to co-op with 4 people. Guild Wars 2 is an MMO offering something new. Maybe this type of MMO is not for you and you would enjoy a more traditional type MMO more?

Vayne.8563:

Actually, I don’t think this is true at all. I think time will prove you wrong. A lot depends on other MMOs coming out…maybe Wildstar, but I think Guild Wars 2 is going to have enough people to have quite a strong showing for quite a long time.

You don’t like the game, so this is your opinion of it. But there really are plenty of people in game…and plenty of people who not only like it, but love it.

In the end, you don’t know any more than I do what will be. In a year or two, we’ll know for sure.

On the one hand, you think my position isn’t “true at all,” and that “time will prove [me] wrong.” On the other hand, both of us are really in the same epistemological location. As usual, you want to eat your cake and have it too. You just want it to be true that the game will thrive with sufficient time.

GW2 had a lot of potential. Unfortunately, many of the flaws present in the fundamental mechanics are now so entrenched that it’s unlikely we’ll see the significant improvements necessary for this game to be anything more than just another average MMO. This is especially the case for its revenue generation model, which negatively affects the entire game experience.

Worse, unlike your average MMO, people came into this game with meteoric expectations, expectations that were largely met during the first few hours of the game and quickly fizzled as players made it through the initial content. It’s left a bitter taste in the mouth of many players.

Guns and Giblets.9308:

Vayne.8563:

Actually, I don’t think this is true at all. I think time will prove you wrong. A lot depends on other MMOs coming out…maybe Wildstar, but I think Guild Wars 2 is going to have enough people to have quite a strong showing for quite a long time.

You don’t like the game, so this is your opinion of it. But there really are plenty of people in game…and plenty of people who not only like it, but love it.

In the end, you don’t know any more than I do what will be. In a year or two, we’ll know for sure.

On the one hand, you think my position isn’t “true at all,” and that “time will prove [me] wrong.” On the other hand, both of us are really in the same epistemological location. As usual, you want to eat your cake and have it too. You just want it to be true that the game will thrive with sufficient time.

GW2 had a lot of potential. Unfortunately, many of the flaws present in the fundamental mechanics are now so entrenched that it’s unlikely we’ll see the significant improvements necessary for this game to be anything more than just another average MMO. This is especially the case for its revenue generation model, which negatively affects the entire game experience.

Worse, unlike your average MMO, people came into this game with meteoric expectations, expectations that were largely met during the first few hours of the game and quickly fizzled as players made it through the initial content. It’s left a bitter taste in the mouth of many players.

If it has “GW2 had a lot of potential.” then saying “Unfortunately, many of the flaws present in the fundamental mechanics are now so entrenched that it’s unlikely we’ll see the significant improvements necessary for this game to be anything more than just another average MMO.” comply contender your first statement or your first statement contradict the 2ed statement. It cant be both. Do you even understand what potential and fundamental means? If your going with the 2ed of your 2 part view point then what flaws are you talking about what fundamental mechanics? Its one thing to just general say “flawed fundamental mechanics” with out saying what your talking about but when you point to some things then we can see where your coming from.

I agree with every point the OP mentioned.

1. WvW was the most promising feature of the game imo, yet nothing really changed since launch apart from culling being removed (which was nice, but it shouldn’t have existed in the first place) and I quit it due to boredom.

2. Every farm I played got changed/nerfed (plinx, pen/shelt, steel tide, arah and probably more that I can’t think of in the couple of seconds I’m writing this), while farming keeps being a requirement cause of the high prices of legendaries / ascendeds / infusions / other items with nice skins.

3. I also think classes are quit ok but there are a lot of individual mechanics that took the fun away for me, thief stealth being the worst of them.

4. Yep it’s pretty ridiculous that only way to get a skin is to buy a small chance to get it.

Last point: fully agree, imo the reward system and incentive to play in GW2 are very bad. They are definitely the worst I’ve seen for an online game.

I agree that the RNG is a kitten and Anet’s obsession with nerfing anything that can make you money or t6 mats, except CoF path1, is slowly driving my interest in the game into the ground. I like the game, I spent 1000 hrs on it so far but I am at the point now where I don’t see the point of playing it anymore cause everything I do gets rewarded with kitten that ain’t worth the time I put into it. Who the heck wants to farm grind the same dungeon over and over and over just to be able to purchase stuff that you should be able to drop. Patiently waiting out the release of another great MMO.

Jski.6180:

If it has “GW2 had a lot of potential.” then saying “Unfortunately, many of the flaws present in the fundamental mechanics are now so entrenched that it’s unlikely we’ll see the significant improvements necessary for this game to be anything more than just another average MMO.” comply contender your first statement or your first statement contradict the 2ed statement. It cant be both. Do you even understand what potential and fundamental means? If your going with the 2ed of your 2 part view point then what flaws are you talking about what fundamental mechanics? Its one thing to just general say “flawed fundamental mechanics” with out saying what your talking about but when you point to some things then we can see where your coming from.

Potential extends in many directions, including before fundamental mechanics were concretely designed, while fundamental mechanics doesn’t mean what you think it means. Instead of trying to discredit me by imputing definitions to my words that I don’t hold, why don’t you find out what I mean before passing judgment.

Now for a few of the problems. (TL;DR version below.)

Strategic Depth

I’ve talked about these before, as many others have. I’ve even seen you post in threads that discuss these issues. Here is one by Ensign, a highly respected GW1 player, that addresses the issue of strategic depth.

GW2 could have used the potential of its classes/system/world/lore to make this kind of strategically satisfying gameplay. Instead, it produced a boring combat system that is flawed in ways that seem exceptionally difficult to salvage—it would take a significant redesign of many (most? all?) skills and classes. How do you move from a damage/damage/damage based play to buff/debuff, condition/cleanse gameplay given the current class design, available skill sets and under designed abilities?

WvW

WvW had a lot of potential. It had the right idea, yet the implementation was poor, leading to stale, repetitive gameplay without strategic significance, meaningful rewards (the new skill system is a fine example of going in the wrong direction) or balanced play. I’m on Tarnished Coast, a second tier server, although these complaints have been leveled by others on various top servers. If the WvW gameplay isn’t satisfying near or at the top, something is fundamentally wrong with how it is designed. The potential was wasted, and what’s needed to change it would take a lot of work and effort—the kind ANet has expressed little to no interest in pursuing.

Crafting

Or consider crafting. People complain that you can’t make money with it. While they’re technically incorrect, the number of profitable crafting opportunities is very low. How could you make crafting both fun and meaningful in GW2? It’s another area of potential that was wasted and the kinds of changes necessary to make it meaningful seem almost impossible to do at this stage. You’d need to change large portions of the economy and add certain recipes to give people the necessary incentives to invest a lot of time and money into crafting.

Or, to use a main example from this thread, look at RNG. Consider what would be necessary to meaningfully improve this system!

ANet hasn’t done itself any favors either. For example, CoF1 is introducing a lot of new gold into the system, yet nerfing it would now cause the economy to crash, which is why I suspect they haven’t done it yet. They need to increase drop rates of key materials, but that also presents its own set of problems. It’s not clear they have a solid grasp on the direction they need to go to make substantial improvements to this game; instead, they produce mediocre fixes that merely exacerbate the situation.

GW2 has some phenomenal features. For example, the graphics are great. Dodging is a fun mechanic. Down leveling is genius. Some of the zones are gorgeous and a delight to explore. Yet key areas are sorely lacking, preventing long-term enjoyment of this game.

TL;DR version:

I hope I’m wrong. I’d love to come back in six months to a year and declare, “I was completely wrong, and I can’t wait to fire up this game and play it for years to come.” But hope is insufficient to overcome what seem to be serious deficiencies in game’s current state.

Julie Yann.5379:

I agree that the RNG is a kitten and Anet’s obsession with nerfing anything that can make you money or t6 mats, except CoF path1, is slowly driving my interest in the game into the ground. I like the game, I spent 1000 hrs on it so far but I am at the point now where I don’t see the point of playing it anymore cause everything I do gets rewarded with kitten that ain’t worth the time I put into it. Who the heck wants to farm grind the same dungeon over and over and over just to be able to purchase stuff that you should be able to drop. Patiently waiting out the release of another great MMO.

Wait farming is driving your interest in the game to the ground or the lack of? You can stop farm you know and try other things. By the sound of it if you got every thing you wanted off the first run of things you would of quit the game already because you would of had every thing.
This is a major problem with the player base we have been trained to work for the next thing to the point where skins have become the next thing skins that where made to take months to get. Once we work out that we cant get them in a week we rage quit. This game is not about progression or should i say meaningful progression its about playing with other ppl to do something. This IS what a sand box game does and other up and coming mmorpg will be like this or the old mmorpg way of endless progression.

Julie Yann.5379:

I agree that the RNG is a kitten and Anet’s obsession with nerfing anything that can make you money or t6 mats, except CoF path1, is slowly driving my interest in the game into the ground. I like the game, I spent 1000 hrs on it so far but I am at the point now where I don’t see the point of playing it anymore cause everything I do gets rewarded with kitten that ain’t worth the time I put into it. Who the heck wants to farm grind the same dungeon over and over and over just to be able to purchase stuff that you should be able to drop. Patiently waiting out the release of another great MMO.

+1

Regarding WvW: I’ve never been into PvP, but the whole WvW aspect of GW2 was really attractive, so I gave it a try. The “newness” of it wore off not long after I got used to the idea of being flattened by a zerg. It needs some substantial work before it really becomes a viable part of the game beyond mindless grinding. As I’ve said in the past, it wouldn’t take more than 3 servers agreeing on a certain pattern of play to get 3 zergs (one from each server) to simply go in clockwise fashion around EB, taking supply camps, towers, and the keeps, over and over in a big loop. Getting beyond issues of people not playing by the merry-go-round rules, they could simply go for hours just collecting wxp and other rewards.

PvE is getting boring because you have to put in such a large amount of time to get even simple rewards. Killing veterans and Champions gets really old when the loot is junk. The thrill of winning against specific mobs dies off after a few times. These days my guild and I just kill them when they are part of monthly or daily.
At the least, Champions need their loot boosted, and their frequency cut (to balance the increase in loot quality). They don’t need to drop exotics, but green or better (guaranteed) would make a bit more incentive to clear out even the difficult ones.
Anet needs to start enticing the players to spend money, instead of trying to force them to do so.

Honestly, I was going to flame OP since most frustration/boredom/leaving posts are more suitable to blogs, and I still think so. However, those major points made are very viable and I’m afraid Anet has underestimated people’s needs for rewarding gameplay.

ArchonWing.9480:

Honestly, I was going to flame OP since most frustration/boredom/leaving posts are more suitable to blogs, and I still think so. However, those major points made are very viable and I’m afraid Anet has underestimated people’s needs for rewarding gameplay.

Then we fall into progression and there is a larges group of ppl who HATE progression in a GW game. Its a no win for Anet if they make a chose. At this time its best for them to make a strong game of GW2 and not a game of mix match of other mmorpgs (fixing bug adding in new fun event and going back to fix old event that where not as fun).

Jski.6180:

Then we fall into progression and there is a larges group of ppl who HATE progression

You mean who hate vertical progression. GW1 had nice progression, but it didn’t make you stronger and I never saw anyone complain about it. People need to stop thinking that progression has to mean getting higher stats. That includes arenanet (ascendeds, WvW world rank points).

Veldan.4637:

Jski.6180:

Then we fall into progression and there is a larges group of ppl who HATE progression

You mean who hate vertical progression. GW1 had nice progression, but it didn’t make you stronger and I never saw anyone complain about it. People need to stop thinking that progression has to mean getting higher stats. That includes arenanet (ascendeds, WvW world rank points).

I understand that but they have added in non vertical progression and ppl shrug it off as if it was nothing and some even hate it. The new V/t/p gear.
I for one would like to see a T/h/p set a tankly cleric set but with less support then givers.

Jski.6180:

Julie Yann.5379:

I agree that the RNG is a kitten and Anet’s obsession with nerfing anything that can make you money or t6 mats, except CoF path1, is slowly driving my interest in the game into the ground. I like the game, I spent 1000 hrs on it so far but I am at the point now where I don’t see the point of playing it anymore cause everything I do gets rewarded with kitten that ain’t worth the time I put into it. Who the heck wants to farm grind the same dungeon over and over and over just to be able to purchase stuff that you should be able to drop. Patiently waiting out the release of another great MMO.

Wait farming is driving your interest in the game to the ground or the lack of? You can stop farm you know and try other things. By the sound of it if you got every thing you wanted off the first run of things you would of quit the game already because you would of had every thing.
This is a major problem with the player base we have been trained to work for the next thing to the point where skins have become the next thing skins that where made to take months to get. Once we work out that we cant get them in a week we rage quit. This game is not about progression or should i say meaningful progression its about playing with other ppl to do something. This IS what a sand box game does and other up and coming mmorpg will be like this or the old mmorpg way of endless progression.

I don’t want to farm, I am being forced to to pay for all the Gold sinks in WvW. When I lead I easily spend 3-4 g a night in siege and upgrades. I used to have some good money making spots but they all got nerfed. I’m down to running CoF 1 cause that is the only thing that is worth the time versus reward. I got 2 alts on the way up to 80 and no kittening mats to craft their armor cause 1. they don’t kittening drop worth kitten 2. the ones I do drop I have to sell to pay for WvW. I couldn’t care less about the skins. Temple Karma gear looks just fine for me I just want to be able to equip my Alts with decent gear and have enough to pay for WvW without wasting hours upon hours farming the kittentiest dungeon run in all the game.