Guild Wars 2

Monagan.6925:

Sorry to barge in there, but might I suggest that there might be some women out there who are playing games to escape from the reality of being objectified?
(had to use Quotation marks because apparently this forum doesn’t support multiple quotes)

Great point Monagan; games are an escape from the drudgery of everyday life. If women playing games want to find out what it’s like not to be objectified, I suggest they play as a male character.
But I’m positive lots of women have already caught on to that trick.

I make no bones that I am not in a position to first hand understand female objectification; I’m a straight white man, about as immune to cultural slurs and inequality as it’s possible to be.
But in some ways that helps you see inequality.
You notice it because it’s so blatantly different to how you’re treated every day.

People don’t get nervous walking along the street towards me because of the colour of my skin.
People don’t wolf-whistle at me or size me up and down with their eyes believing they’re well within their rights to do so.
Other men aren’t looking at my legs, hips or chest when they speak to me.
I don’t have to put up with being talked down to on a daily basis or treated like I’m not capable of taking care of myself.
People don’t touch me without permission.
If I choose to pursue success in business, my options aren’t limited by what is situated between my legs.

So when I see that happening to other people, it’s blatantly obvious they are being judged on merits other than their personalities or intellects.

The armours that offend me in this game do so because they strengthen these behaviours and make it harder for women to be judged in the way I wish myself to be judged.

So tell me lady gamers: would you rather be judged by the shapeliness of your legs & chest, or by your mind?

Leo G.4501:

This argument…makes no sense. There’s no logic in this at all.

As a male with a nice build, you want to flaunt it. That’s only natural. In particular to pixelated avatars, people spend good effort combining colors combinations, designs and accessories that often are just covered up by armor.

Actually, I don’t want to flaunt it if it doesn’t fit my character. I don’t want a scantily clad guardian, or thief. In fact I spend a great deal of time on my outfits to make them look the characters. It’s not always easy.
I never said male characters shouldn’t also have a choice of sexy armor. I said the majority of armor choices for both character genders should be nonsexy. Unless it’s some sort of sexy game.

FacesOfMu.3561:

Kaimick.5109:

So in turn your argument is null and void. Now if your argument is that you feel offended by the skimpy and don’t want to see it period I say grow up, also what gives any of you the right to choice what others can wear and can’t wear based on your likes and dis likes?

I personally don’t want to take away choices. I want equal choices for male and female avatars.
It feels like you are arguing to stop me asking for an equal number of choices for male and females as I’ve been saying in my posts, to choose “what others can wear and can’t wear based on your likes and dis likes”. Is that what you want? It comes across that way in your words and tone.

I personally don’t want to take away choices. I want equal choices for male and female avatars.
It feels like you are arguing to stop me asking for an equal number of choices for male and females as I’ve been saying in my posts, to choose “what others can wear and can’t wear based on your likes and dis likes”. Is that what you want? It comes across that way in your words and tone.

If you want to create an equality then you should be fighting to have more Skimpy outfits, as there are less skimpy outfits in the game to the non skimpy.

I am just saying that this topic has been beat to death time and time again, and usually by people that do not do the research, and or are just people that want to complain about something. I don’t really care if you don’t like Skimpy, I don’t really care if skimpy is Socially correct or not, it also doesn’t matter that if in real life scenario’s IF a woman were to be on a battle field they would be in the same as the males ( which is wrong ). The Only societies in our History ( NOT Tyria’s a fantasy realm NOT REAL ) were the Celtic people and the Persians, in which the Females wore a very revealing armor set, this was implement in Persian society to distract the male fighters, the reason in the Celtic religions is because they believed the female warriors were watched over by the valkyries. In all other countries females were not allowed to fight in battle. So your example of if woman were side by side with males in our history they would look the same is in correct.

But this whole thread is not about the rights of Women or the injustice done to Females in a Fantasy world, or our female gamer population. For that to even begin to hold true you would have to have a higher % of Skimpy than regular armor skins, which is simply not the case here. Ergo people are just complaining to complain and they expect to be taking seriously when they are obviously not doing the slightest amount of research themselves.

The problem is that the majority of armors IS non-sexy. I don’t really get the point of this thread anymore.

Just because you see a lot of people in the sexy stuff doesn’t mean there isn’t any non-sexy, it just means that’s the way they want their character to look. I don’t have my guardian in skimpy clothes, because its Lenneth, and it doesn’t work. My Mesmer has some sexy clothes, but she’s a Mesmer, and it fits.

You can’t say all of the armor is sexual, or there aren’t any decent armors that cover, when the truth of the matter is that the non sexy outfits far outnumber the sexy ones.

Lenneth.1372:

The problem is that the majority of armors IS non-sexy. I don’t really get the point of this thread anymore.

Just because you see a lot of people in the sexy stuff doesn’t mean there isn’t any non-sexy, it just means that’s the way they want their character to look. I don’t have my guardian in skimpy clothes, because its Lenneth, and it doesn’t work. My Mesmer has some sexy clothes, but she’s a Mesmer, and it fits.

You can’t say all of the armor is sexual, or there aren’t any decent armors that cover, when the truth of the matter is that the non sexy outfits far outnumber the sexy ones.

Exactly, this is the point that everyone ignores and only proves they have a lack of research. This exact point

Just because you see a lot of people in the sexy stuff doesn’t mean there isn’t any non-sexy

If they are seeing a lot of people in Sexy armor’s then what makes you think Arena Net is going to listen to 30 people and say. Your right 30 of you think it is disrespecting females and no one really wears them anyhow and since you 30 people are the majority of the 400k players we are going to remove them.

Monagan.6925:

Leo G.4501:

This argument…makes no sense. There’s no logic in this at all.

As a male with a nice build, you want to flaunt it. That’s only natural. In particular to pixelated avatars, people spend good effort combining colors combinations, designs and accessories that often are just covered up by armor.

Actually, I don’t want to flaunt it if it doesn’t fit my character. I don’t want a scantily clad guardian, or thief. In fact I spend a great deal of time on my outfits to make them look the characters. It’s not always easy.
I never said male characters shouldn’t also have a choice of sexy armor. I said the majority of armor choices for both character genders should be nonsexy. Unless it’s some sort of sexy game.

Don’t change what you said. You said the argument for more revealing armor for men was ‘silly’. Do you want to rephrase that then?

As for your character, it’s you just didn’t spend as much effort designing the ‘avatar’ as much as you did ’character’s armor’. I don’t have norn characters, but I’m sure plenty adore the tatoos they chose and colored and want them visible. I like my charr’s coat color and pattern because it’s natural and not common and I’d like that visible.

As for it being a ‘sexy game’, I toned my posts to be tongue-in-cheek because the discussed topic is pointless as I’m positive the company that made the game has a team of people who poll players and consumers for this information to come to their decisions. They pay people to do that stuff so people pushing their agenda that isn’t related to the game or its content at all seems overly dramatic to me.

I’m simply pointing out the lack of customization options for male (as well as non-human/sylvari/norn) avatars not because I have a hard-on for them but because it’s better for showing other costume options.

You have choice in the game how you wana dress, forcing your dress code on other people is basically striping people of the freedom of choice. Every person has the right to chose how he/she view its own avatar.And if you really wana address this problem then i would direct you to other problems wich are the cause. A child of 12 years of age will not use a game to be the inspiration of his dress code, rather his companions at school. Why is he/she so popular… & try to imitate that as ppl of that age need confirmation in the circle of friends they are in. And most of those “popular” ppl will drove their inspirations from older friends , brothers , sisters… whom again drove inspirations from TV, movies,music,… Think about it logically if we take female clothing. How many young girls at that age; 10+ got love struck by an older guy (im not a weirdo its a normal psychological/sexual development of a human mind) who den drown their sorrow in its own room listening to music, connecting themselves with the lyrics of the song & thus finding the singer as a role model. Example why does Rihanna (dont listen to pop so this is the only that has come into my mind) came out of as an strong woman, in charge of her own life & a role model yet she is on posters in so many girls rooms, yet have you seen how she dress, & let me tell you she has more effect on girls way of dressing up than a game.
As i stated before, you have the right to skin your character however you want, but you have to right to force that on other ppl. And if you wana fight how men precept a woman start at the right location. Maybe just maybe a talk can do more to someone view of the world, by increasing his knowledge & thus making him more aware of his decisions than limiting ppl the right to chose.

Akame.1073:

Maybe just maybe a talk can do more to someone view of the world, by increasing his knowledge & thus making him more aware of his decisions than limiting ppl the right to chose.

While the gist of your post about letting people choose what to wear is sound, may I interject there and say that no, most likely just talking to someone and “increasing his knowledge” will not change their views? Changing someone’s held beliefs gets more and more difficult the longer they have held them. You usually will not be able to make even a dent in it. Which is one of the reasons you shouldn’t argue on the internet in hopes of convincing a lot of people – you won’t.

Thank god for transmutations! I mean I don’t mind it (I’m a lady) but sometimes yeah if it’s too much it’s distracting. At least we can choose what we can wear through the transmute stones. There’s some cute non-revealing stuff.

I sure hope anyone with this attitude towards female objectification who has made a male toon made him kinda chubby and not with that prince charming face or hair. Otherwise there would be some serious hypocrisy going on in this thread.

I was going to read this thread in depth, but then noticed that within two posts, we were referring to Anika Sarkeesian as some sort of “leading expert” on the problems with video games and….I stopped reading after that.

This thread is full of two types of people, ranting at each other and not listening to the other side.

1) People who believe that any objectification of women in video games is wrong, that no skimpy outfits should exist, and that any woman who thinks these outfits are okay are obviously just brainwashed by the mass media.

2) People who believe that there is nothing wrong with these outfits but take personal offense at the very implication that skimpy outfits for just one gender and not the other might be a tad bit sexist.

And I’m one of the people who actually sits in the middle here. Yeah, sure, there are sexist elements in games….and not many gamers are actually fond of them. See the Tomb Raider debacle as a prime example of a time when a clearly sexist trope was used as part of the “character”, and gamers revolted against it because it significantly demeaned the character and the gender as a whole.

It’s when we take the feminist argument too far that we start running into problems. Demanding skimpy outfits be removed is hardly a solution, it’s creating a problem that doesn’t need to exist. Some people like seeing their characters in skimpy dresses. I’ve got a female friend who is happily married with kids who RPs characters with very skimpy outfits, and dresses some of her female characters in such outfits because she loves the aesthetics of it.

Instead of removing options from people, just introduce some options for skimpy male outfits, too. Then both genders are being equally represented. I’m not sure why everyone has to make such a big deal out of such an easily resolved issue. Skimpy outfits are not “the devil” and they’re not the issue here. The presence of skimpy outfits does not make a game sexist. Stop attacking the wrong issue.

@critickitten
Agreed. That’s the most logical solution too because you’re not removing things people already like (a lot of those “skimpy” clothes are artistically beautiful and it’s a shame to remove them). “Skimpy” male clothes can be things like barbarian clothes, similar to the ones seen in Diablo if I remember correctly.

While I do not think skimpy clothing should be removed – more choice is good – I do agree with many of the posters here that the unbalance between genders and races should be abolished. The solution: more skimpy sets for characters with the male body type (including female asura and charr).

Nutshel.7264:

I know you want to make light, medium and heavy armor each feel unique but come on, you could give us something more then kitten/kitten items or some overdoing it, spikes and skulls wanna be kitten gear…

Overdoing you say? Well I have a feeling ANet has a tendency for overdoing stuff recantly. It applies to many, many things in GW2: armors, weapons, and other pieces of equipment.
Also some of the characters look t least tacky. Take Mad King Thorn for example. He looks terrible and flashy like a christmas tree. Seriously, in Guild Wars 1 he was looking ALOT better.

ANET please be more reasonable while designing stuff.. Thanks in advance.

Mungrul.9358:

Not misinterpreting him; just trying to explain how we’re led to believe things are the way the are and how our world view can be shaped by society.

Doesn’t this also apply to the (sub) culture your intellectual friends ant their views?

I’d be interested to hear if his female friends thought that there was nothing wrong with the human female Masquerade set for example. If they honestly see nothing wrong with that, there’s something drastically wrong.

Don’t you think there’s something very wrong with this position of yours where you feel there must be something very wrong (with them) if they are of a certain opinion?

I think the human female light armors look great i like most of them but I’m a man.

Ah, I see, but I’m a man, so you are not entitled to an opinion in this issue?

Leo G.4501:

Weindrasi.3805:

We also hear so-called jokes like: “No fat chicks allowed!”. Female businesspeople, workers, and politicians are frequently criticized for their appearance, not their policies or decisions. Among young girls, eating disorders are rising every year because society tells them they have to be hot to have worth. When a video game sexualizes the women, but not the men, it reinforces all of this.

I’d like to comment that, it’s probably more important to identify that media itself is simply a source of communicating messages. ‘The media’ is only alive if you’re deluded enough to believe messages can dictate your values for you.

Stop giving power to an inanimate entity. THAT’S the problem, not what the media says is important.

It’s hard to ignore media messages when most of the men and women around you follow them. It’s hard to ignore them when you have to put up with them over and over again, every day from childhood. If we were all born as wise adults, then the media wouldn’t be a problem. But we aren’t—we are born as naive children. As naive children, we do let the media dictate our values—and by the time we grow up, the media has dictated our values for so long that we struggle to change them. It isn’t some imaginary entity, and it does have power.
It’s important for parents to teach their kids not to listen to the media, but all to often the parents listen to the media themselves and reinforce its viewpoint of women, instead of counteracting them.
Guild Wars 2 doesn’t have to remove skimpy armors. But it should provide an equal amount of them for male and female characters. It should also provide more realistic-looking male and female bodies, in addition to the “Barbie & Ken” bodies. That way, people can still choose what they want, but the game isn’t contributing to societal problems.

Monagan.6925:

Akame.1073:

Maybe just maybe a talk can do more to someone view of the world, by increasing his knowledge & thus making him more aware of his decisions than limiting ppl the right to chose.

While the gist of your post about letting people choose what to wear is sound, may I interject there and say that no, most likely just talking to someone and “increasing his knowledge” will not change their views? Changing someone’s held beliefs gets more and more difficult the longer they have held them. You usually will not be able to make even a dent in it. Which is one of the reasons you shouldn’t argue on the internet in hopes of convincing a lot of people – you won’t.

Noone has the right to change how ppl view things (…as long as these dont affect other ppl life or/ and way ppl live (my view). And plz dont extrapolate thing out of my post wich arent there. Changing someone’s held beliefs equals to deny a person freedom. If someone doesnt like skimpy outfits he has all the right to not wear skimpy outfits, but at the same time, the same person has no right to force other ppl to wear them. In the game there are skimpy & non-skimpy outfits, for each person to chose, so i rly dont see where the problem is.

Akame.1073:

Monagan.6925:

Akame.1073:

Maybe just maybe a talk can do more to someone view of the world, by increasing his knowledge & thus making him more aware of his decisions than limiting ppl the right to chose.

While the gist of your post about letting people choose what to wear is sound, may I interject there and say that no, most likely just talking to someone and “increasing his knowledge” will not change their views? Changing someone’s held beliefs gets more and more difficult the longer they have held them. You usually will not be able to make even a dent in it. Which is one of the reasons you shouldn’t argue on the internet in hopes of convincing a lot of people – you won’t.

Noone has the right to change how ppl view things (…as long as these dont affect other ppl life or/ and way ppl live (my view). And plz dont extrapolate thing out of my post wich arent there. Changing someone’s held beliefs equals to deny a person freedom. If someone doesnt like skimpy outfits he has all the right to not wear skimpy outfits, but at the same time, the same person has no right to force other ppl to wear them. In the game there are skimpy & non-skimpy outfits, for each person to chose, so i rly dont see where the problem is.

First off I agree with this 100% I would also like to add and I am pulling from your post.

.as long as these dont affect other ppl life or/ and way ppl live

If someone is letting Armor types ( be it skimpy or not ) affect their real life, and the way you live, all because of a video game then you need to put the video game down and re-evaluate your life.

critickitten.1498:

I was going to read this thread in depth, but then noticed that within two posts, we were referring to Anika Sarkeesian as some sort of “leading expert” on the problems with video games and….I stopped reading after that.

This is where you should have paused for a moment, thought about what you just wrote, and stopped writing your reply. You just literally said you didn’t read more than the first two posts, then went on to “analyse” (wrongly) the types of people that are posting in this thread. If you don’t actually read a thread, your reply will contribute nothing to it. You’re just stroking your own preconceptions. Even if I ignore the fact that my first post was pretty well researched by admittedly lax scientific standards your classification of people in this thread is nonsensical, and your other points have been made several times before. You may as well not have posted at all.

Also, @ Akame.1073:
There’s literally no way for this to not sound rude, but I don’t think there is any point for me to argue with you.

In fact, this thread’s pretty much done. Everything at this point’s just bickering. I’ll try and refrain from posting any further.

Weindrasi.3805:

It’s hard to ignore media messages when most of the men and women around you follow them. It’s hard to ignore them when you have to put up with them over and over again, every day from childhood. If we were all born as wise adults, then the media wouldn’t be a problem. But we aren’t—we are born as naive children. As naive children, we do let the media dictate our values—and by the time we grow up, the media has dictated our values for so long that we struggle to change them. It isn’t some imaginary entity, and it does have power.

No one said to ignore media nor has anyone said it is an imaginary entity. The media is not a living breathing thing, but just a collection of messages. People that study media inclined subjects understand that and how it influences what people think, say, do, etc. Once you understand this, you understand what the messages are actually trying to do, and a lot of times it’s to get you to buy something.

@Monagan.6925 Plz be my guest,hopefully your pedestal isnt to shaky.

Mungrul.9358:

…and there you have it. Three immediate responses justifying this institutionalised sexism, not even seeing it as a problem and attempting to belittle my character in order to make my viewpoint null & void. Ad hominem at its finest.

I like how you conveniently forgot the fact that I didn’t even disagree with you and stated that I understand your views. I just told you not to overreact, which is what you are doing to the fullest extend. And in response you accuse me of justifying “institutionalised sexism”.

I was planning to agree with you, but I see now that you are way too extreme. You are either an overzealous feminist or the most professional troll I have ever seen.

You act like including these revealing armors are the most terrible crime in human history and go out of your way to overpower everyone with your overzealous statements just because they have a different opinion. Your kind makes me sick..

Please can we end this thread or get the thread name changed? Every time I see the word “Plox” I think it looks like something a 5 year old would write which makes it difficult to take anything the OP writes seriously.
Please if you want your posts respected, use real words?

Bottom line: More choices for everyone, please!

Personally, I’d like more light armors for females without butt-bows and ruffles and frills.

ok… Didn’t expect so many people to care about this regardless of your reasons.
Anyways, my point wasn’t really that clothes should or should not be revealing, or that players should or should not wear them. Frankly I don’t care what others use on their toons.
My problem is that when I finally decided to get some good looking gear for my toon I started looking around what was available, turns out most of gear wasn’t to my likeing due to most of them look like things courtesan would wear and these that didn’t had spikes and skulls and flames and what not everywhere and that’s not how I want to dress my toon. Strangely though heavy and medium armor got good choice of gear that is neither whorry nor overtop.

Then I’ve seen human melee dressed in some cool looking not over the top gear, asked him what that was as it turned out again something that i though could look good on female again anet decided to make look whorry.

@ANet In future please refrain from altering title of topics if you can’t do it in such way that message and impact is carried on after alternation, thank you.

Seriously people? This topic AGAIN?!

Look through the armor, you will find more armor that covers than armor that reveals.
The fact you see so many people mixing and matching revealing clothing shows us that people WANT more revealing clothing options.

Also, the armchair psychologist on page one there…yeah, try going to college for psychology. Women aren’t programmed to show more skin by anyone or anything. Weak willed individuals get programmed, the typical human actually is NOT all that weak willed. Men are visual based creatures, it is a known biological and psychological fact that genetically and socially men are attracted to what looks good to them. Women are biologically and psychologically attracted to that which makes them feel comfortable, safe, and allows them to laugh/relax. Note that you can achieve this with and without revealing clothing.

The fact of the matter is that WOMEN become very vocal in the gaming community if they cannot have revealing armor. They like it and it is aesthetically pleasing to them. Get off your soapboxes, relax, take a deep breath, and look around. It has been said and shown many times…this game has far more full covering armor than it has revealing options. To say otherwise is to admit that you are just griping that you see everyone else choosing to wear revealing clothing and it hurts your delicate sensibilities.

The only real clothing gripe that should be said is that medium armor has way too many trenchcoats and not enough of ANY other options.

Nutshel.7264:

ok… Didn’t expect so many people to care about this regardless of your reasons.
Anyways, my point wasn’t really that clothes should or should not be revealing, or that players should or should not wear them. Frankly I don’t care what others use on their toons.
My problem is that when I finally decided to get some good looking gear for my toon I started looking around what was available, turns out most of gear wasn’t to my likeing due to most of them look like things courtesan would wear and these that didn’t had spikes and skulls and flames and what not everywhere and that’s not how I want to dress my toon. Strangely though heavy and medium armor got good choice of gear that is neither whorry nor overtop.

Then I’ve seen human melee dressed in some cool looking not over the top gear, asked him what that was as it turned out again something that i though could look good on female again anet decided to make look whorry.

@ANet In future please refrain from altering title of topics if you can’t do it in such way that message and impact is carried on after alternation, thank you.

The remedy to this is simple and I’m surprised no one even mentioned this yet: Composite Armor.

You don’t like the spikes, flames and skulls on light armor? Replace that part with something neutral. Think an armor set’s look is nice but shows too much skin? Replace the chest piece with something else.

There are PLENTY of armors that don’t have flames, spikes and skulls on it (actually, there are really only 4 armos that have flames/spikes/skulls!! We probably need more varied types like the use of feathers, fluff, and the like for more combinations).

I mean, if I like showing off my asura’s dark skin tone or the fur markings on my charr, I often work in 1-2 parts into a set of armor to get that effect. If I can do that, why can’t you do the same but for opposite effect?

I am new to GW2 and have one comment only on this subject. What is given as an example when creating a character is never seen again. Also, after reviewing the different outfit types, I do not see where the outfits are all that sexist or reveling. If you are talking about a little clevage or bare stomach, take a look at what people have on in real life. I have seen clothing that would make God blush. They is male and female clothing a like out there. I am finding that there are very few sexist like outfits as the standard of real life clothing goes. Through the years, and I’ve lived many; I have seen outfits diplayed on this countries streets that would make Feminists enraged, and yet; the females who diplayed the clothing seemed to have no problem with choosing to display themselves in the clothing.

I recall a similar topic brought up often in the beta, and a player named Tasao gave a brilliant answer that I actually saved on my computer:

“The best selling point females typically have is their health. Because millenia-old monogamous customs are a barter system of females trading reproductive power in their primes in exchange for lifelong access to the production and labor potential of males. It’s a win-win for both sides. Males get to mate and produce offspring and females get food, shelter, and protection for themselves and their offspring.
There’s a popular saying that, “the sexiest thing a woman can wear is nothing, and the sexiest thing a man can wear is an expensive suit.”
Revealing clothing emphasizes what a woman is selling in the ancient tradition of marriage analogues: Their physical health.
Ornate and expensive armor emphasizes the selling point of male characters: That they’re competitive and successful.
Everyone knows about Burkas in Islam. They’re to conceal females from the lust of males. Fewer people know that men are not allowed to wear jewelry or flashy clothes, and neither gender is allowed to sing, dance, or even clap. Do you see the theme here?
Women aren’t allowed to publicly sell their marriage potential by revealing themselves, but neither are men. Men aren’t allowed to show off their wealth or success, which would tempt women. Though the rules are certainly less enforced in the case of males.
Anyhow, I mention this because from this perspective it seems that a lot of people are using a male-dominated worldview. It may be that females that condemn revealing clothing as objectifying are applying a double stand in favor of letting females off the hook as much as Islam lets males off, or more so. Or it may be that they’re characterizing the male-dominated worldview they’re likely aware of and disapprove of without realizing that emphasizing the female’s looks is placing themselves in the shoes of the male viewer.”

What bothers me most about the female human light armour is that it’s all skirts. Many of them are horrible bubble skirts. There was a personal story where the characters wore a pirate disguise, and the tailored trousers looked quite fabulous. Closest I can find to trousers are the ascalon catacombs exotic leggings. I am not 100% satisfied, but I’ll probably get those for my asuran female mesmer as well. Her armour choices are also quite horrible. I can’t say I like any of the armour in the game, to be honest. The crafted rare leggings for the male charr… yowza they’re ugly. My male sylvari engineer looks like he’s going to a ball, not a warzone. What has happened to lovely design like the Kurzick Elite of old?

I just want more than one pair of pants for my female light armour wearers. Is that too much to ask?

Not only is the light armor almost all skirts, but it’s mostly long skirts with the front open. Truthfully it’s a strange design. If it was only a few if them no biggie. But having so many, well it is starting to feel like a fetish on the designer’s part.

Heavy armor, can we say MORE skirts? Yes we can. Luckily I have HoM armor available to me which is much more reasonable. Good luck to anyone else who doesn’t have this option and would like pants, especially for female toons.

Medium armor and the cover your butt fetish rages on with lots of long cloaks. Seriously, I want my tailor to get out a pair of scissors and just hack the cloaks off at the waist for my mediums armors.

Why can’t we have tucked in shirts and pants options for armor? Short jackets that end at the waist? Just plain old pants for all 3 armor sets?