Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 1 didn’t have forums. Having forums here seems to do nothing but give people a means to complain – constantly – about everything.

Using the forums for anything constructive is pointless due to the huge amount of “this game is dying, this game is too grindy” posts.

The sense of community does not exist here. It isn’t a place for guild wars 2 players to come together to talk about strategies or builds or anything useful, it’s turned into a pool of hatred that that must be causing you all (Arena Net) to sigh with dread when you know you are about to load the forums.

Do you ever think “hey I wonder what our awesome players are talking about today on the forum?” or is it more “I wonder what they will be whinging about now?” I’ll bet on the latter.

So, my suggestion. Shut the forums down. There are fan sites that can wear the brunt of complaints, just like there was with GW1.

Altough I find it highly unlikely that this will ever happen, it is a good suggestion.

It may be just me, or I am reading the wrong forums, but they are in 80% whinefests. About everything.

I just get mad reading some of them, with threats like “If you don’t do as I will Anet, I will quit the game and take all my friends with me!”. Really guys, really?…

There’s a lot of constructive discussions going on in here. Just don’t look at the general Guild Wars 2 Discussion forum. You always see what you want to see, I simply ignore most of the complaints. Other option for you: don’t like the forums? Don’t visit them.

It’s cheaper than renting a movie. The writing is almost never as good, but hey, you get what you pay for.

The reason of a forum isn’t actualy “listening” to the complains, but this is a very very cheap and good feedback to Anet.

they will surly not doing the: “omg some one is raging on our forum, quick to the HQ with our batmobile, and change the jumping puzzle/more legendary/etc etc”
=> feedback

2nd thing to use is to create a player help player community. I know there are other GW2 (fan) website with bete forums, but this I’d call the basic: the none hardcore still got a small place to find help, apart from the rage

=> community building

3rd thing is the client service. They provide you information, possibility to use this forum as a help center.
As you can see, sometimes in a while there are people who struggling with problems. The problems I mean are those who also get the awnser “go to Anet support center”. For many (hardcore/more brain/familiar with games) person this is so normal, but seems it isn’t.
=> 1st line support

4th place to output your anger… actualy this is also the 3rd: custom service, helping you get ride of your stress

I enjoy reading suggestions and discussions. I disagree that it is a constant whinefest, and I think it is important to have a place for ANet and the players to connect and share experiences (and is not one-on-one).

I stay away from general discussion, that is what you are describing. The other other sections are mostly doing what they need to do and the negativism stays in the garbage bin we call ‘General dicsussion’

Too much hypocrisy going on here.

Spend more time in the class section or PhP. Just stay out of discussion.

Ema.4953:

Guild Wars 1 didn’t have forums. Having forums here seems to do nothing but give people a means to complain – constantly – about everything.

If we had no reason to complain we wouldn’t. If professions were balanced right, we wouldn’t be talking about how they aren’t. If legendaries were actually fun and epic to go after, we wouldn’t be here voicing concerns about it. Your “Back in my day” attitude discredits you and your “Shut down the forums” is complaining in itself.

Would you like to try again? [Insert thread to continue]

Frosty and Frosty Law Firm.4981:

If we had no reason to complain we wouldn’t.

There is no such thing in human nature. Issues such as balance, fun, value and fairness are subjective. If someone thinks the game is perfectly balanced, someone else will complain that it’s not – how can it be balanced when he just lost a PvP match? Obviously there is something wrong, because it can’t be HIS fault he lost.

SAB is a lot of fun. No, it’s a waste of time, they should have worked on something HE likes.

Etc. There is never “nothing to complain about.”

Any feedback is good feedback, it gives you vibe for at least what part of the community is feeling, that being said, some of the complaints are legitimate. This game was touted as having a huge PvP aspect, and Anet for the most part has done little to fix it. They are just now getting around to fixing sPvP and WvW, and still have a long way to go. For some reason they seem to be focused on this games PvE, but should also know that probably a third of their player base is PvP oriented and if they don’t add a lot of content and fixes soon then they will loose a lot of players as new mmorpgs are slowly coming out.

tolunart.2095:

Frosty and Frosty Law Firm.4981:

If we had no reason to complain we wouldn’t.

how can it be balanced when he just lost a PvP match?

How cynical of you. Could it be that the people complaining do not have a skill issue as you so brutishly thrust into the argument, that they simply see a problem with the profession that they believe needs fixing?

No, you’re right. Let us return to the era of zero communication with the devs where we buy gems and gleefully accept the mediocrity we’re offered and lick Anet’s boots, as in the case of the OP.

Frosty and Frosty Law Firm.4981:

tolunart.2095:

Frosty and Frosty Law Firm.4981:

If we had no reason to complain we wouldn’t.

how can it be balanced when he just lost a PvP match?

How cynical of you. Could it be that the people complaining do not have a skill issue as you so brutishly thrust into the argument, that they simply see a problem with the profession that they believe needs fixing?

No, you’re right. Let us return to the era of zero communication with the devs where we buy gems and gleefully accept the mediocrity we’re offered and lick Anet’s boots, as in the case of the OP.

Um, he’s right though. It doesn’t matter how good or well designed something is, someone will complain about something. Most of the complaints made on the forums are groundless and stupid. Most of the complaints have no basis in reality and consist of someone who is personally incapable of doing a thing demanding that everything be turned on its head so that they can do it.

This, and the replied to post, however, were only written to dispute that one point. There is no such thing as a lack of complaints. Neither of these posts, I believe, were granting any credance to the OP ludicrous concept of removing the forums. The Forums need to exist. People need an outlet for their complaints, groundless or not, and this is the best place for them.

It’s gonna be rare for someone to come to a forum to give praise to everything they like about the game. Except for the short term events. lots of people voice their praise for things like SAB, Wintersday, and Halloween because they want to see more events like them.

You will always have more people complaining or giving suggestions about things they don’t like or want to see added or changed. And there are gonna be lots of people who are going to come across as a spoiled childrenm whining and kittening, instead of being constructive.

And while there were no official GW1 forums, EVERYONE used the Guild Wars Guru forums. The devs even went there to post and read up on things. Now they have the “Official” Guild Wars 2 forum.

Besides, if you don’t want there to be a forum, why not pretend it doesn’t exist and not come here??

^ Not much else to say than that.

Frosty and Frosty Law Firm.4981:

tolunart.2095:

Frosty and Frosty Law Firm.4981:

If we had no reason to complain we wouldn’t.

how can it be balanced when he just lost a PvP match?

How cynical of you. Could it be that the people complaining do not have a skill issue as you so brutishly thrust into the argument, that they simply see a problem with the profession that they believe needs fixing?

No, you’re right. Let us return to the era of zero communication with the devs where we buy gems and gleefully accept the mediocrity we’re offered and lick Anet’s boots, as in the case of the OP.

After spending over two years reading various MMO forums, I can safely say that the signal to noise ratio is waaaaaay off here. There are legit complaints but they get lost in the wave of OMG SO-AND-SO IS OP! MUST NERF THEM IMMEDIATELY!

Oh, and I am a cynic, so don’t expect rainbows and daisies.

Kal Spiro.9745:

This, and the replied to post, however, were only written to dispute that one point. There is no such thing as a lack of complaints. Neither of these posts, I believe, were granting any credance to the OP ludicrous concept of removing the forums. The Forums need to exist. People need an outlet for their complaints, groundless or not, and this is the best place for them.

Of course no one seriously expects them to close down the forums. It will go on as it always does in these games, it gives people a place to play rooster and get attention, and is largely ignored by the people working on the game except as an early warning system that there was a crash or game-breaking bug.

I just get a kick out of people acting like they expect their every word to be delivered directly to the dev’s email or something, and complain when they don’t get a personal response. And then even the most casual comment by an official employee is picked apart and analyzed to be debated and twisted around and held up as a written-in-stone promise for months afterwards.

Too many people posting here act like spoiled children throwing a tantrum because Mommy won’t buy them a toy. In the rare cases of an actual, mature discussion it’s possible to learn a lot from both sides of the game, but it gets lost in the wave of gimmes.

Special K.8143:

It’s gonna be rare for someone to come to a forum to give praise to everything they like about the game. Except for the short term events. lots of people voice their praise for things like SAB, Wintersday, and Halloween because they want to see more events like them.

You will always have more people complaining or giving suggestions about things they don’t like or want to see added or changed. And there are gonna be lots of people who are going to come across as a spoiled childrenm whining and kittening, instead of being constructive.

And while there were no official GW1 forums, EVERYONE used the Guild Wars Guru forums. The devs even went there to post and read up on things. Now they have the “Official” Guild Wars 2 forum.

Besides, if you don’t want there to be a forum, why not pretend it doesn’t exist and not come here??

Sums this post right up. I do agree there is a LOT of whineing here but this is the suggestions section. Everyones got something to add, and while some are just demanding something because they want it others put in a lot of thought and effort in their suggestions.
Have a read of some of the better suggestions and leave a comment on why you feel this is a good idea/bad idea that’s how these forums are ment to work.
Here’s a good one with a video to go with it as well: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/The-Top-10-Things-GW2-Needs-to-Improve/first#post1776230

Guess you’ve never been to a town hall meeting.

The forums are the only place to talk to the developers outside the game.

Shut the forums down? But…. What about the people who stopped playing months ago but STILL want to complain about the game? They would be forced to go to another game and complain about that one. Wait. Hmmm. Let me think about this for a moment.

Astral Projections.7320:

Shut the forums down? But…. What about the people who stopped playing months ago but STILL want to complain about the game? They would be forced to go to another game and complain about that one. Wait. Hmmm. Let me think about this for a moment.

Nah, they’ll just saunter off back to mmorpg.com and continue moaning there about heavy-handed moderation, overpowered thieves and endless moaning and groaning about how GW2 is nothing like their favourite panda-based RPG… Oh, wait, there’s a downside to this?

i actually agree. One of the redeeming features for GW1 was fan-based forums.

marnick.4305:

i actually agree. One of the redeeming features for GW1 was fan-based forums.

I can see the value of fan based forums, but I much prefer the forums being in the direct control of the people who are also controlling the game. Having special guest star, “The guy making the game you like,” isn’t nearly as effective or helpful.

Ema.4953:

Having forums here seems to do nothing but give people a means to complain – constantly – about everything.

Oh the irony..

Bubi.7942:

I just get mad reading some of them, with threats like “If you don’t do as I will Anet, I will quit the game and take all my friends with me!”. Really guys, really?…

There’s no need to get mad. This is no different than what you see in RL. I have two friends who work in retail as managers. It usually turns out that every person who is demanding something is a lawyer who will sue if s/he doesn’t get what s/he wants! What are the odds?

Anyway, ANet knows that most of such threats are empty. People who are going to leave the game just leave the game. The forum-goers who threaten to leave are either not going to leave, or will come back soon enough.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Anyway, ANet knows that most of such threats are empty. People who are going to leave the game just leave the game. The forum-goers who threaten to leave are either not going to leave, or will come back soon enough.

And with a subscriptionless game, “leaving” the game isn’t even a threat. It costs Anet nothing if you stop playing the game, and costs you nothing to start playing again. Most of the players who rage and leave will eventually give in to curiosity and poke a nose back in to see if things have gotten better.

The dissenting opinion must always be maintained. Without complaints about GW2, where would the contrary defenses, compromises or new and interesting solutions to problems be? Without complaints, there would be no need to defend GW2. With no need to defend GW2, people would be unable to tell whether or not what they were playing was objectively good or not.

Well, since the OP hasn’t bothered to respond to any discussion here, perhaps we should chalk it up to a troll post and let the thread die.

The irony of using the forums, which you obviously think are valuable enough to read, as a medium to request they are shut down, appeals to me!

But no.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Bubi.7942:

I just get mad reading some of them, with threats like “If you don’t do as I will Anet, I will quit the game and take all my friends with me!”. Really guys, really?…

There’s no need to get mad. This is no different than what you see in RL. I have two friends who work in retail as managers. It usually turns out that every person who is demanding something is a lawyer who will sue if s/he doesn’t get what s/he wants! What are the odds?

Anyway, ANet knows that most of such threats are empty. People who are going to leave the game just leave the game. The forum-goers who threaten to leave are either not going to leave, or will come back soon enough.

I read a nice article about how statistically, people who make this threat, usually are still in the game after months. People claiming “their entire guild left” are statistically in very active guilds. Some companies even make drinking games out of forum threads, where the devs browse 3 month old topics and drink for every “leaving player” who’s still active.

Taming the Forum Tiger. Read it. Love it.

marnick.4305:

I read a nice article about how statistically, people who make this threat, usually are still in the game after months. People claiming “their entire guild left” are statistically in very active guilds. Some companies even make drinking games out of forum threads, where the devs browse 3 month old topics and drink for every “leaving player” who’s still active.

Taming the Forum Tiger. Read it. Love it.

Do you mean that someone claims people post less than completely truthful information in forums like these? Inconceivable!

The fact is Ema.4953 and others you will ALWAYS get those who whine on about ‘how lousy’ something or other is. Often they compound this whining by mentioning that another game system is better or that it has such an such an element which Guild Wars 2 should have. My immediate reaction to such people is to say that if they love those other games so much they ought to just [insert profanity here] and play them and leave Guild Wars 2 to the people who actually LOVE the way it works.

In reality I work in the business and have been both a game designer and player since the very early Eighties and as such feel that unless those posting such ‘suggestions’ can actually do better than the designers, programmers and all of the hundreds of people involved in creation, content and presentation that they ought NOT to post their grievances at all. I have no wish to hear about OTHER games! I’m here to PLAY and to enjoy Guild Wars 2. I will not even profane this commentary box with any other games title or content; that is how strong my feelings are on the subject.

What often tears it for me is how dumb these posters often are. I appreciate that not everyone has had an education but many of them cannot even use basic English (actually it has been my observation that non-English speakers often use better English than native speakers) and instead resort to that highly irritating and dumbed-down text-eze language so beloved of the cell phone generation. I flatly refuse to communicate with them, that is how irritating I find it to have to ‘translate’ their dribble (and in world often mute them rather than have to ‘listen’ to it).

There is an expression, ‘’pearls before swine’’ and it is very appropriate for these complainers and no-nothing’s in wanting to make Guild Wars a clone of other and lesser games are just without any appreciable imagination in my book.

A question, does the OP still reading his own topic? :P

tolunart.2095:

marnick.4305:

I read a nice article about how statistically, people who make this threat, usually are still in the game after months. People claiming “their entire guild left” are statistically in very active guilds. Some companies even make drinking games out of forum threads, where the devs browse 3 month old topics and drink for every “leaving player” who’s still active.

Taming the Forum Tiger. Read it. Love it.

Do you mean that someone claims people post less than completely truthful information in forums like these? Inconceivable!

I would expect everyone to use facts, logic and reason. Apparently that’s a bit too much to ask. Then again I’m a bit autistic and I’m pretty good at annoying people with inconvenient truths.

Belenus: I completely agree.

Or maybe they should move all the fanboy’s off the forum since they never add anything to any discussion except whining about people complaining :-)

Belenus.9132:

The fact is Ema.4953 and others you will ALWAYS get those who whine on about ‘how lousy’ something or other is. Often they compound this whining by mentioning that another game system is better or that it has such an such an element which Guild Wars 2 should have. My immediate reaction to such people is to say that if they love those other games so much they ought to just [insert profanity here] and play them and leave Guild Wars 2 to the people who actually LOVE the way it works.

In reality I work in the business and have been both a game designer and player since the very early Eighties and as such feel that unless those posting such ‘suggestions’ can actually do better than the designers, programmers and all of the hundreds of people involved in creation, content and presentation that they ought NOT to post their grievances at all. I have no wish to hear about OTHER games! I’m here to PLAY and to enjoy Guild Wars 2. I will not even profane this commentary box with any other games title or content; that is how strong my feelings are on the subject.

What often tears it for me is how dumb these posters often are. I appreciate that not everyone has had an education but many of them cannot even use basic English (actually it has been my observation that non-English speakers often use better English than native speakers) and instead resort to that highly irritating and dumbed-down text-eze language so beloved of the cell phone generation. I flatly refuse to communicate with them, that is how irritating I find it to have to ‘translate’ their dribble (and in world often mute them rather than have to ‘listen’ to it).

There is an expression, ‘’pearls before swine’’ and it is very appropriate for these complainers and no-nothing’s in wanting to make Guild Wars a clone of other and lesser games are just without any appreciable imagination in my book.

Your wisdom is a great example of why SWTOR became Tortanic. Since you seem to have so much wisdom as far as gaming development is concerned what games have you worked on?

Belenus.9132:

The fact is Ema.4953 and others you will ALWAYS get those who whine on about ‘how lousy’ something or other is. Often they compound this whining by mentioning that another game system is better or that it has such an such an element which Guild Wars 2 should have. My immediate reaction to such people is to say that if they love those other games so much they ought to just [insert profanity here] and play them and leave Guild Wars 2 to the people who actually LOVE the way it works.

In reality I work in the business and have been both a game designer and player since the very early Eighties and as such feel that unless those posting such ‘suggestions’ can actually do better than the designers, programmers and all of the hundreds of people involved in creation, content and presentation that they ought NOT to post their grievances at all. I have no wish to hear about OTHER games! I’m here to PLAY and to enjoy Guild Wars 2. I will not even profane this commentary box with any other games title or content; that is how strong my feelings are on the subject.

What often tears it for me is how dumb these posters often are. I appreciate that not everyone has had an education but many of them cannot even use basic English (actually it has been my observation that non-English speakers often use better English than native speakers) and instead resort to that highly irritating and dumbed-down text-eze language so beloved of the cell phone generation. I flatly refuse to communicate with them, that is how irritating I find it to have to ‘translate’ their dribble (and in world often mute them rather than have to ‘listen’ to it).

There is an expression, ‘’pearls before swine’’ and it is very appropriate for these complainers and no-nothing’s in wanting to make Guild Wars a clone of other and lesser games are just without any appreciable imagination in my book.

marnick.4305:

I would expect everyone to use facts, logic and reason. Apparently that’s a bit too much to ask. Then again I’m a bit autistic and I’m pretty good at annoying people with inconvenient truths.

Belenus: I completely agree.

I’ve lived too long to expect everyone to do things that they’ve never done before. I suspect I have Asperger’s Syndrome, sometimes people seem to be an entirely different species, and I feel like Jane Goodall among the apes.

Frosty and Frosty Law Firm.4981:

What often tears it for me is how dumb these posters often are. I appreciate that not everyone has had an education but many of them cannot even use basic English (actually it has been my observation that non-English speakers often use better English than native speakers) and instead resort to that highly irritating and dumbed-down text-eze language so beloved of the cell phone generation. I flatly refuse to communicate with them, that is how irritating I find it to have to ‘translate’ their dribble (and in world often mute them rather than have to ‘listen’ to it).

Conversely, not everyone needs a wall of text to convey a simple thought. ‘lol’ suffices to let others know you are amused, as do ‘haha’ and ‘funny!’ I shouldn’t have to write a complete sentence for that, especially on a game forum. No one cares that much that I am laughing in order to want to read about it in detail.

Save proper grammar for situations like school, work, sending a letter, etc. My only gripe is when people think it’s okay to use internet/“txt” jargon in formal communications. Most people know better; it’s not an educational deficiency. They just aren’t mindful, or they simply don’t care to be ‘proper.’ After all, who’s judging on a game forum? Certainly no one of any importance in most other forum users’ lives. We’re mostly a collection of strangers posting under pen names.

LOL has it’s place, agreed. However and in defense of my own comment insisting on using letters instead of words is unacceptable to me. That’s all I’m going to add on the matter with the exception of this question: whatever happened to the point of the original posters argument? It seems to have been washed away in favor of repeating vast chunks of my commentary.

As to my work in the last thirty years a complete listing would probably cover six or seven pages. If you happen to be a developer you will quickly come to realize that individuals do not sit down and design computer games as they are often designed by a committee. I will say this though, I happened to be living in Texas in ’92 when J. Carmack (and his crew) was writing the original DOOM and although was aware of the project through contacts did not have any part in it.

Ema.4953:

So, my suggestion. Shut the forums down. There are fan sites that can wear the brunt of complaints, just like there was with GW1.

At least when the complaints are here there is some amount of damage control that can be done by ANet staff, even if it’s as simple as giving a reply. There isn’t much they can do about negative publicity on fansites or other independent sites. From that perspective, having an official forum makes a lot of business sense.