Guild Wars 2

I know, it’s like I’ve heard this before, but reading Colin’s plans for 2013 there is nothing about this feature that happens to be in the name of the game!

I know GW2 is all about hugs and kisses within your own realm, everyone working towards a common goal and yada yada…

But come on. How hard would it be to introduce a war declaration system (mutual of course, as this is a consent-only PvP game) that would allow guilds to fight each other in the beautifully crafted, huge open world that you have provided us with, and which we have mostly abandoned ever since we hit max level and possibly 100% world completion.

To make the world even more relevant, let the guilds stake out bases (guild halls, whatever you want to call them) in the open world. There are tons of forts, villages and hidden caves for all kinds of guilds to call their home base. Let them add functionality to them. Let them add guild vendors, banks and stuff. Make them expensive to build and to maintain, so guilds will have to work to keep them.

This would give players so much more to do while you work on more of that run-of-the-gear-treadmill PvE content you seem so fond of, and that we players churn through in a few days, asking “now what?”.

What you are suggesting is making this a player driven PvP game.

The people who bought this game expecting anything even remotely similar to that are long gone.

Eventually yes. Although not open combat in the world map. Maybe each area should given a guild+pvp map instance.

100% better content than Ascended.

However i understand that this is not as simple as OP thinks. Maybe by the expansion?

If you signed onto this game with those hopes in mind, you clearly bought the wrong game.

There are games like that out there, Lineage 2 for the fantasy minded and Eve Online for the sci-fi minded come to mind right off the bat.

I’m not asking for a hard core FFA PvP experience. I’m asking for consent-only wardecs between guilds. Frankly, I cannot really see how implementing that could be such a big chore. I also cannot see how it would actually bother anyone if the guilds could duke it out in the open world as long as it’s consensual. Don’t like it, don’t participate. As simple as that.

But I guess you’re right – this doesn’t seem like that game. The devs are content (pun intended) to bring us more absolutely meaningless and boring PvE stuff like more dynamic (lol) events and grind-until-your-fingers-bleed dungeons with two hundred difficulty levels.

Sometimes I really wonder what goes around in the minds of these devs…

And yes, there are games with that kind of content out there. However, none of them have as huge and beautiful world as GW2 does, practically screaming “Hey come over here and populate me!”

You realize that the name is from the lore right?
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Lore

It has nothing to do with guild wars in the game

Morrigan.2809:

You realize that the name is from the lore right?
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Lore

It has nothing to do with guild wars in the game

Sure I realize that. Doesn’t make it any less stupid to name your game “Guild Wars”, then put in Guilds and Wars, but not Guild Wars.

But I can see from the +1s on this thread what people want. Thanks for the confirmation. I’m sure Colin will serve you as ordered

I don’t see why a guild can’t call war on a other guild(if people don’t want to fight they unrepresent or there could be a option "Idon’t want to fight) and fight eachoter in the open, could please the openworld pvp people, without negativly influencing the non-pvp players

+GuildWars isn’t from the Guild Wars Lore, it’s from the PvP, when GuildWars just was a PvP game, it had the name GuildWars, when they decided to add PvE they just kept the name

GW1 had GvG instance, but somewhere I seen Anet (Colin) state that 5v5 pvp is like a guild war. Once they bring guild halls perhaps they bring this feature. Open-world GvG I don’t think it will ever come. They are very strict on not having any form of direct competition on the server. Recently they state that they are not strictly against showing names in WvW, but they have issues with it. If that is an issue, you really think they ll ever make something so direct in the face as Open world GvG?

Well we can always dream

So they are afraid that there will be name-calling and stuff like that? Yeah for sure there will be, but as long as the consequences of PvP are as small as they’re in WvW I don’t see them getting out of hand.

They want the whole server to be one big happy family? Well it’s not working, as people are getting kitten with nothing to do.

Tom Gore.4035:

Morrigan.2809:

You realize that the name is from the lore right?
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Lore

It has nothing to do with guild wars in the game

Sure I realize that. Doesn’t make it any less stupid to name your game “Guild Wars”, then put in Guilds and Wars, but not Guild Wars.

No, it makes it perfectly sensible. The game is named for the lore, not for GvG. In fact if I’m not mistaken, GvG is a function that didn’t even exist in the original Guild Wars game until after release, along with Guild Halls and many other things that people complain aren’t in this game.

You are not the first person to make this comment nor the last, and yes, people do want GvG in this game, and many other things too. But it’s getting a little old that people refuse to acknowledge that the actual title of the game is not named for GvG but rather the lore of the universe. And it’s not a “new” nomenclature, a lot of games use names or parts of names that don’t match their game play.

Morrigan.2809:

You realize that the name is from the lore right?
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Lore

It has nothing to do with guild wars in the game

Yeah, why would you name the game after a central gameplay feature when you could name it after an obscure backstory element that is mentioned maybe twice in the entire game. A logical person might see the cause and effect as being the other way around.

So… When are Guild Wars coming?

Short answer, never.

I remember buying the original ‘Guild Wars’ with the premise of the game being centred around actual guilds at war, to which I was largely disappointed by the absence of.

But that’s not to say that guilds as a whole were pointless.
Oh no, guilds in GW1 had a sense of meaning and purpose, a reason for them to exist and for you to join one.
When you found the right guild for yourself, they often became your online family.
The closest things to ‘Guild Wars’ back then were GvG battles with rankings/leaderboards and Alliance Battles, which I guess turned out to be adequate substitutes.

I understand that open Guild PvP would bring a degree of negativity towards other guilds and there would be some political mud-slinging on each server, but this happened with GW: Factions with the Kurzicks vs Suxons and it gave you an purposeful enemy to fight against and allies to fight with.

In GW2 however…
The fact that groups just spontaneously appear for events, and there is not much to do that requires an organised team makes having a guild for the sake of PvE content redundant.
WvW? Yes guilds can capture forts and whatnot, but what is the point when that place drains a guilds money and influence yet gives no apparent benefit apart from displaying the guild banner, then only to be lost soon after? And all that is assuming you’re on a world that does a lot of WvW, some worlds hardly bother with it.
IMO, WvW is just a big gimmick/mini-game money sink.

The multi-guild system at first sounded great on paper… but then so does communism.
What multi-guilding in effect does is fractures a guild community. Many players see no reason to be loyal and become an ‘associate’ of many guilds but a true member of none.

critickitten.1498:

You are not the first person to make this comment nor the last, and yes, people do want GvG in this game, and many other things too. But it’s getting a little old that people refuse to acknowledge that the actual title of the game is not named for GvG but rather the lore of the universe. And it’s not a “new” nomenclature, a lot of games use names or parts of names that don’t match their game play.

What’s getting old is people who are so naive about business that they think developers won’t fit a trivial part of the game’s lore to a marketable name. The GvG game mode was not present in the original Guild Wars, but Tombs was, and it was informally a guild mode (as intended) since PUGs would not stand a chance. You guys are arguing a technicality, and a very silly one at that.

Leablo.2651:

Morrigan.2809:

You realize that the name is from the lore right?
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Lore

It has nothing to do with guild wars in the game

Yeah, why would you name the game after a central gameplay feature when you could name it after an obscure backstory element that is mentioned maybe twice in the entire game. A logical person might see the cause and effect as being the other way around.

I didn’t design this game- GvG is not a feature of GW2, no amount of logic changes that.
The whole game is pretty much designed around co-op so I don’t see it becoming a feature in open world ever.
Maybe when guild halls are in- as an instanced game mode but that is it.
I don’t think it is even a priority for the devs

Morrigan.2809:

Leablo.2651:

Morrigan.2809:

You realize that the name is from the lore right?
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Lore

It has nothing to do with guild wars in the game

Yeah, why would you name the game after a central gameplay feature when you could name it after an obscure backstory element that is mentioned maybe twice in the entire game. A logical person might see the cause and effect as being the other way around.

I didn’t design this game- GvG is not a feature of GW2, no amount of logic changes that.
The whole game is pretty much designed around co-op so I don’t see it becoming a feature in open world ever.
Maybe when guild halls are in- as an instanced game mode but that is it.
I don’t think it is even a priority for the devs

This game isn’t about co-op, it is merely a shadow of co-op. This game revolves around zerg fest – with small groups (guilds mostly) being back bone in a zerg. They do most of the damage so get most of the items that drop from NPC’s and Players which leaves the rest of the zerg out in the cold – (no co-operation there for split spoils in helping in killing things or achieving a goal). The second half of this game is about camping areas and exploiting others. The 3rd aspect of the game is to run around solo or with 3 ppl (aka strike groups) to achieve your mission.

I have found the best fun in WvW was with 3 others because we were able to take supplies depot’s back and I would get some bags of loot from the kills, if I am in teh main force or zerg, I am not F’IN special enough to run with the elitist kittens that have their special commander group. In the end why do I want to help them if I am not getting anything out of it? I know I get some from taking castles and such, but I have seen the otherside as well. Main group looting bags left and right making tons of coin, while I get 1 or 3 every 30 minutes…don’t even cover my repair bills.

Co-op…this is a game based on which server has 24/7 players, you have a decent mix of West and Oceanic players to push, take and hold everything you have – and only giving what you actually don’t mind losing so you can take it right back when the main time frame force is on.

Leablo.2651:

Yeah, why would you name the game after a central gameplay feature when you could name it after an obscure backstory element that is mentioned maybe twice in the entire game. A logical person might see the cause and effect as being the other way around.

“Central gameplay feature”?

In that case, I’d like to argue the notion that World vs World is a “central gameplay feature” of GW2, seeing as how they both serve the purpose of allowing large groups of people to battle each other, and they’re both equally as optional.

This may shock you, but you can actually play GW1 without ever actually being involved in a “guild war”. I played for years and never once got into a GvG battle. Never interested me or my guildmates. GvG was not a “central gameplay feature” of GW1, it was a wholly optional PvP setting that encouraged a larger PvP community.

I don’t disagree that it needs to be introduced to GW2. I just think it’s silly to argue that it was the core of GW1 when it wasn’t even in the original game until a post-release patch.

Leablo.2651:

What’s getting old is people who are so naive about business that they think developers won’t fit a trivial part of the game’s lore to a marketable name. The GvG game mode was not present in the original Guild Wars, but Tombs was, and it was informally a guild mode (as intended) since PUGs would not stand a chance. You guys are arguing a technicality, and a very silly one at that.

You don’t even understand what you’re arguing about.

No one has said “we don’t want GvG”. We have simply stated that GvG is not the reason why the Guild Wars franchise has its name. It’s named for the lore, as are many other games, because story and lore makes for a more marketable name. So it’s ridiculous to try and argue that GvG is the reason for the Guild Wars name, because a) it wasn’t in the original game, and b) the devs have actually stated that the game was named such because of its lore.

TC post was exactly what I expected in the PVE content of GW2 end-game.

Yet, they pushed the “war” to WvWvW with no relation to the PVE world.

GW2 end-game would’ve been strong if they did it that way.

—

Do people know one of the main reasons why GW2 has low player concurrency?

There’s no competitive PVE content between players.

GW2 made it in a way there’s no way to compete for anything. Everyone is equal.

Have anyone seen any multi-player (board/cards/video games) with no winners & losers?

In every MMORPG, no matter how different, there’s ways to lets players feel special.

This is why every MMORPG kept the elitism system.

Without it, GW2 isn’t a game as a “MMORPG”.

GW2 merely a console single player game with multi-player add-in + separate PVP irrelevent world.

There’s no “world” inside that progresses among the players.

From the latest blog post, their so called “living world” they kept emphasizing only directs towards players towards PVE/AI/NPCs. They misinterpret players past feedback by having a “world” for GW2.

It’s a dead world as a MMORPG.

—

I’m not talking about MMO. I’m talking about MMORPG.
MMO is the whole genre. MMORPG is a sub-category genre.

It’s a great game as a single-player online game for a group (PVE players) and a multi-player PVP game for another group (PVP-action players). GW2 being just a general MMO is great too. However, it’s still very far of being a MMORPG.

The devs must do more research towards what makes MMORPG addictive/fun to attract the majority of the real mmorpg players. If GW2 wants to become a real MMORPG, I expect to see more improvements for GW2.

I don’t see the innovation of GW2 becoming a revolutionised mmorpg. I see GW2 is merely RPG genre cut to 1/3 and added 2/3 of adventure + action genres elements. This pushes the mmorpg genre backwards.

Graveside.9253:

Morrigan.2809:

Leablo.2651:

Morrigan.2809:

You realize that the name is from the lore right?
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Lore

It has nothing to do with guild wars in the game

Yeah, why would you name the game after a central gameplay feature when you could name it after an obscure backstory element that is mentioned maybe twice in the entire game. A logical person might see the cause and effect as being the other way around.

I didn’t design this game- GvG is not a feature of GW2, no amount of logic changes that.
The whole game is pretty much designed around co-op so I don’t see it becoming a feature in open world ever.
Maybe when guild halls are in- as an instanced game mode but that is it.
I don’t think it is even a priority for the devs

This game isn’t about co-op, it is merely a shadow of co-op. This game revolves around zerg fest – with small groups (guilds mostly) being back bone in a zerg. They do most of the damage so get most of the items that drop from NPC’s and Players which leaves the rest of the zerg out in the cold – (no co-operation there for split spoils in helping in killing things or achieving a goal). The second half of this game is about camping areas and exploiting others. The 3rd aspect of the game is to run around solo or with 3 ppl (aka strike groups) to achieve your mission.

I have found the best fun in WvW was with 3 others because we were able to take supplies depot’s back and I would get some bags of loot from the kills, if I am in teh main force or zerg, I am not F’IN special enough to run with the elitist kittens that have their special commander group. In the end why do I want to help them if I am not getting anything out of it? I know I get some from taking castles and such, but I have seen the otherside as well. Main group looting bags left and right making tons of coin, while I get 1 or 3 every 30 minutes…don’t even cover my repair bills.

Co-op…this is a game based on which server has 24/7 players, you have a decent mix of West and Oceanic players to push, take and hold everything you have – and only giving what you actually don’t mind losing so you can take it right back when the main time frame force is on.

I understand what you are saying but I was talking about open world PvE in my post not wvwvw.
I haven’t actually played any wvwvw since the beta so I have no idea what that is like.

The OP wanted to have guild vs guild battles and I can’t see that happening outside of an instance.
I suppose you could say that wvwvw is sort of already like a guild vs guild in a very loose sense but it does not seem focused enough for me to be what the OP was talking about.

Morrigan.2809:

The OP wanted to have guild vs guild battles and I can’t see that happening outside of an instance.

You keep saying that, but you give no reasons why it needs to be within an instance? Several PVE and cooperation centric games have successfully introduced consensual open world PvP. There is absolutely no technical reason to restrict Guild vs. Guild warfare into instances.

The only reason I could think of would be a design decision – not wanting any conflict in the open world between players. I could understand that, but would not agree with it.

But I’m not the producer of this game. They take the game to the direction they feel is best, and so far it seems that direction is to offer more solo PvE content and instanced group PvE content. They tout about their “living world”, but the sad truth is the world evolves exactly according to their pre-set plan and we, as players, will have zero impact on that direction.

It makes me sad. MMORPGs today are full of wasted potential. They are effectively static single player games that you can play with your friends. They do not respond to your actions and you cannot shape the world in any way, no matter how many players you flock to yourself.

My only consolation is that there seem to be several games coming out that give more emphasis to the player. It also seems that it’s mostly eastern developers that understand this. I wonder if I should move to Korea.

It’s worth keeping in mind that Colin mentioned custom PvP arenas in the recent Blog post. Even if this doesn’t allow for more structured tournament/ranked match options for guilds to begin with, this could well be something that is developed after the ground work is lain. I feel that ANet developed WvWvW as a refinement of the original GvG, regardless of how successfully people feel it was implemented, so it’s possible that while GvG was never originally on the cards they’re reacting to player feedback. Time will tell.

I’ve seen people mentioning GvG in this forum, but very few really elaborating on what it is they expect from such an option, and little consensus between those that do – though I appreciate that they might just be spit-balling ideas. From a personal perspective as someone who mostly plays PvE, I’m honestly not sure what differences people expect from GvG when compared to sPvP or playing as part of a guild with a strong WvWvW presence.

Tom Gore.4035:

It makes me sad. MMORPGs today are full of wasted potential. They are effectively static single player games that you can play with your friends. They do not respond to your actions and you cannot shape the world in any way, no matter how many players you flock to yourself.

My only consolation is that there seem to be several games coming out that give more emphasis to the player. It also seems that it’s mostly eastern developers that understand this. I wonder if I should move to Korea.

What specific sort of things are you looking for, and what do these other games offer that you like? How much of these games are focused around these design details and how do their mechanics compare to those used a game like GW2?

proxy.7963:

What specific sort of things are you looking for, and what do these other games offer that you like? How much of these games are focused around these design details and how do their mechanics compare to those used a game like GW2?

Let’s start by stating that my favourite MMO of all time is Ultima Online: Renaissance (and it’s important to mention the expansion too). Unfortunately this game fell flat on it’s face starting from Age of Shadows, but I digress. Lately I’ve also been playing a lot of EVE online, but the lack of any (meaningful) avatar gameplay and consent-only PvP areas keep me from enjoying it fully.

The incoming games I’m currently watching include Pathfinder Online, ArcheAge and The Repopulation. All of these aim to offer a much more player-driven experience than GW2 and the other popular themepark MMOs (TSW, WoW, Rift and SWTOR to mention a few) today. They are built from base up to offer the players a lot of cool “toys” to play with and tools to create content for themselves and the rest of the community. Instead of pushing the player down a certain progression path, these games rather make the player ask “What now?” a lot. Those with imagination can always find an answer to that question and the answer will be one they came up themselves.

When I speak of wasted potential regarding to GW2 I mean mostly the vast, beautiful and painstakingly detailed world that the devs created, and that is now mostly collecting dust as most of the players have reached maximum level. My vision of a Guild versus Guild system for GW2 would allow guilds to declare mutual war against each other, allowing them to fight wherever they meet, even in the open world. To give them more incentive to do so, I would allow guilds to claim a base (be it a fort, a village or a hidden cave) out in the world and then capture/raid warred guild bases.

I doubt my vision will ever be realized, but I’m certain that if it would, it will bring a whole lot more meaning to “guild pride” than the planned guild missions ever will.

Tom Gore.4035:

…Lately I’ve also been playing a lot of EVE online, but the lack of any (meaningful) avatar gameplay and consent-only PvP areas keep me from enjoying it fully…

So you like ganking in specific. This is so far from the GW concept, that it will not happen.

“Allowing players to share experiences in an open world where other players are seen as helpful, rather than competition, is a huge component of what makes our game what it is. Open world online games are always strongest when players are encouraged and rewarded to interact as a community, to support other each other…..” – https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/colin-johanson-on-guild-wars-2-in-the-months-ahead/

Guilds owning specific spots is a great idea. When I’m exploring sometimes you see a fort or an island or something and think, that’s where I’d live if I could! WvW seems to be the replacement for the traditional guild battles though. It’s pretty nice because you don’t even actually have to be in a specific guild with rules, event times, etc. to do it… and yet at the same time, there are huge advantages to joining a WvW guild if that’s what you want to do.

Tom Gore.4035:

Snip

It’s interesting that you comment on EVE, considering that it’s one of the most player-driven games that I’ve ever spent time on, though granted that it’s not particularly aesthetically-driven and the PvP aspects are really rather open-ended (though that’s part of the appeal for many). Sadly, the ‘What now?’ issue is pretty prevalent in all games – in all honesty, I find sandbox games to generally be less appealing than less open-ended games, presuming both are crafted well, because given the option of doing anything, I will tend to do what I want to do the most and everything else will seem unappealing by comparison. But that’s just me. I appreciate thriving in reasonably restrictive game environments and mechanics far more than in more open scenarios.

Adding the sorts of PvP elements to open world that you’ve mentioned is also an interesting idea, but I admit that I’m sceptical as to how they would be managed or really what they would provide beyond the options available in WvWvW. The concept of larger guilds potentially monopolising even small areas of PvE is particularly unappealing to me, though there are ways to balance that and to encourage it to stay dynamic. This could well be something that could be experimented with in the new maps that ANet introduce to the game over the coming years, but it does seem a little against the spirit of cooperation that they’ve fostered. And I think in many ways, you’ve answered your own ‘What now?’ with a rather personal solution – one that appeals to you but may not necessarily fit the overall design of the game. In effect, would you be satisfied with any middle-ground that could be introduced? Instanced, but more open-ended custom PvP arenas? Aspects of WvWvW that are more Guild-focused rather than server? Greater implications of Guild Influence on the open world?

The game still has a lot of room in which to grow and the raw materials to make it work. But if people have fairly restricted ideas of how to introduce new concepts – and I’m not suggesting that you are, but in general – I’d argue that the potential there is a little wasted.

beren.6048:

Tom Gore.4035:

…Lately I’ve also been playing a lot of EVE online, but the lack of any (meaningful) avatar gameplay and consent-only PvP areas keep me from enjoying it fully…

So you like ganking in specific. This is so far from the GW concept, that it will not happen.

“Allowing players to share experiences in an open world where other players are seen as helpful, rather than competition, is a huge component of what makes our game what it is. Open world online games are always strongest when players are encouraged and rewarded to interact as a community, to support other each other…..” – https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/colin-johanson-on-guild-wars-2-in-the-months-ahead/

I’m not sure how you twisted my wish for consent-only PvP areas for EVE (and for GW2) to “you like ganking”. Care to elaborate? Or maybe you need a new dictionary?

proxy.7963:

It’s interesting that you comment on EVE, considering that it’s one of the most player-driven games that I’ve ever spent time on, though granted that it’s not particularly aesthetically-driven and the PvP aspects are really rather open-ended (though that’s part of the appeal for many). Sadly, the ‘What now?’ issue is pretty prevalent in all games – in all honesty, I find sandbox games to generally be less appealing than less open-ended games, presuming both are crafted well, because given the option of doing anything, I will tend to do what I want to do the most and everything else will seem unappealing by comparison. But that’s just me. I appreciate thriving in reasonably restrictive game environments and mechanics far more than in more open scenarios.

Adding the sorts of PvP elements to open world that you’ve mentioned is also an interesting idea, but I admit that I’m sceptical as to how they would be managed or really what they would provide beyond the options available in WvWvW. The concept of larger guilds potentially monopolising even small areas of PvE is particularly unappealing to me, though there are ways to balance that and to encourage it to stay dynamic. This could well be something that could be experimented with in the new maps that ANet introduce to the game over the coming years, but it does seem a little against the spirit of cooperation that they’ve fostered. And I think in many ways, you’ve answered your own ‘What now?’ with a rather personal solution – one that appeals to you but may not necessarily fit the overall design of the game. In effect, would you be satisfied with any middle-ground that could be introduced? Instanced, but more open-ended custom PvP arenas? Aspects of WvWvW that are more Guild-focused rather than server? Greater implications of Guild Influence on the open world?

The game still has a lot of room in which to grow and the raw materials to make it work. But if people have fairly restricted ideas of how to introduce new concepts – and I’m not suggesting that you are, but in general – I’d argue that the potential there is a little wasted.

It’s of course a matter of taste if anyone likes more pre-defined or open-ended gameplay. I guess you could say Guild Wars 2 is not the game for me, but I’d like to believe there is room for open-ended emergent gameplay in GW2 too, if the devs choose to spend resources for it. The good thing about such elements are that they usually return more gameplay hours per development hours than pre-defined elements.

About your fear of larger guilds “monopolizing” areas in the open world, I disagree. It would be trivial to restrict the bases to one per guild and then adjust the cost of acquiring and maintaining the bases so that the biggest forts and towns could only be claimed and kept by bigger guilds. Also, as the PvP would be voluntary, guilds could choose whom to fight and whom to “ignore”. This would allow many opportunities to form roleplaying communities, who do not wish to participate in the “higher levels” of competitive PvP, but instead want to have roleplaying reasons for laid back PvP. Having participated in a lot of this kind of PvP in Ultima Online, I have to say it’s the best time I’ve ever had PvPing in a game. When everyone’s not that dead serious about their ladder position and k/d ratio, the fights are much more relaxed and fun and usually always include cinematic preludes, where the forces stop to exchange words before the battle ensues.

As to your questions what I would be happy with – the answer is: Anything that gives more options for player-driven content. If they will come in baby steps I’m fine with that, but unfortunately when I look at Colin’s talk about where they want to take GW2 in 2013, it leaves me with disappointment that player-driven content is definitely not in the spotlight, at least not for 2013.

Tom Gore.4035:

beren.6048:

Tom Gore.4035:

…Lately I’ve also been playing a lot of EVE online, but the lack of any (meaningful) avatar gameplay and consent-only PvP areas keep me from enjoying it fully…

So you like ganking in specific. This is so far from the GW concept, that it will not happen.

“Allowing players to share experiences in an open world where other players are seen as helpful, rather than competition, is a huge component of what makes our game what it is. Open world online games are always strongest when players are encouraged and rewarded to interact as a community, to support other each other…..” – https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/colin-johanson-on-guild-wars-2-in-the-months-ahead/

I’m not sure how you twisted my wish for consent-only PvP areas for EVE (and for GW2) to “you like ganking”. Care to elaborate? Or maybe you need a new dictionary?

“consent-only PvP areas keep me from enjoying it fully”, but I guess you mean this also lacks in eve. Never played that game. Guild wars are often without the consent of the individual player. I never seen an MMO where you needed to flag a player to start killing a war tag.

Doesn’t matter really, more importantly read what Colin says (in specific the text in Bold). Killing war tags while doing a raid is not helpful at all, it is competitive.

Tom Gore.4035:

It would be trivial to […]

It’s best not to presume that actions will be trivial without being in the position to actually implement those actions. I’ve only been involved in very cursory, minor development roles, but for every ‘This would be easy to do!’, there’s a door that closes between player and developer that is tough to reopen. Try to understand that while something might seem easy to do, that doesn’t necessarily make it so.

Tom Gore.4035:

… restrict the bases to one per guild and then adjust the cost of acquiring and maintaining the bases so that the biggest forts and towns could only be claimed and kept by bigger guilds. Also, as the PvP would be voluntary, guilds could choose whom to fight and whom to “ignore”. This would allow many opportunities to form roleplaying communities, who do not wish to participate in the “higher levels” of competitive PvP, but instead want to have roleplaying reasons for laid back PvP. Having participated in a lot of this kind of PvP in Ultima Online, I have to say it’s the best time I’ve ever had PvPing in a game. When everyone’s not that dead serious about their ladder position and k/d ratio, the fights are much more relaxed and fun and usually always include cinematic preludes, where the forces stop to exchange words before the battle ensues.

I would wager that many people who focus on PvE over PvP are just not bothered with PvP in any form. They might consider the introduction of any aspects of PvP into the part of the game that they enjoy to be a negative change, particularly if they are effectively restricted from content (beyond the system itself) – WvWvW is a decent example of this, where some are understandably frustrated with the situation whereby they cannot work towards map completion (content/goals-related) without either being on a server with the territory under control or actively organising a push to take it (which might not be feasible/reasonable). Even if additional content were not introduced alongside this concept and to compliment it, players might feel that the relative effort vs reward may not make taking part worthwhile for them (again, see the impermanence in claiming territory in WvWvW or the Temples in Orr as examples of this).

Don’t misunderstand me – I like this idea. But I don’t like presuming that something will be straightforward without feeling satisfied with the amount I’ve examined the potential downsides involved. So I’m being purposefully (obtusely) critical to try and weed out the potential issues involved.

Tom Gore.4035:

As to your questions what I would be happy with – the answer is: Anything that gives more options for player-driven content. If they will come in baby steps I’m fine with that, but unfortunately when I look at Colin’s talk about where they want to take GW2 in 2013, it leaves me with disappointment that player-driven content is definitely not in the spotlight, at least not for 2013.

Maybe not, but there are a lot of pressing things on ANet’s plate at the moment to address in the game. Maybe when those are cleared up, we might see something like this implemented. No reason to give up hope just yet.

http://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/game/suggestions/Just-Another-Suggestion-Thread/first#post1188303

Suggestion number 8

I would love to See open world GvG but adding guild halls to that would cause some issues. If i were to see GvG in guild wars 2 that involved guild halls this is how i would do it.

What i would like to see out of GvG is 2 guilds in an instanced area that is about 1/6-1/3 the size of ebg in WvW. This instanced area will hold 2 guild halls that the 2 guilds built up themselves and the surrounding area of each hall will be chosen by the guild(having different biomes will allow some variety and the ability for that guild to choose their home biome which will allow guilds to personalize their GvG experience) Making it so you have a blank instanced area with 2 place holders for guild halls and then desiging biomes so they come together naturally in the middle of the battlefield.

5v5-10v10 sounds like a good range although allowing guilds to set custom rules with GvG will just allow more replay value. Maybe having different game modes CTF, attack and defend, Destroy the Guild Hall(would involve siege), 1 Life team deathmatch, Set lives team deathmatch, Point Team deathmatch, a Spvp like mode, etc

Also for this to work Guild Hall customization would need to be really in depth allow guilds to feel like they are protecting a place they built up. Going out and collecting mats to build up guild halls certain mats build certain building types. Also allowing the players to build up a lumbermill(wood), farm(herbs and cooking supplies), hunter station(leather) and a mine(ore) will allow players to build up zones they want so they may get certain mats faster while also limiting themselves to a certain number of these extra buildings they can build up with crafting mats(maybe a max of 3). You would also want to put a small limit on the amount of mats you can get so people are just sitting in their guild hall zones farming up mats.

Guild halls will also allow you to add a ton of stuff to the gem store. Paint(maybe add a guild dye vault to select paint colors from will), Banner types, flag types, minis that walk around, mini games you can put in your guild hall(poker, key brawl, drinking contest, snowballs fights, hide and seek, battle arena, pet arena, etc)paintings, animal skins and heads, fireplaces, city portals, i could go on. You would also want to add a limiter for guilds to allow GMs and Officers to limit the amount of content new members can use and see in guild hall zones so that you get more of a family feel from your guild as they will want to stay and help build up an awesome guild hall and not a ton of people you kinda know that have 4-5 guilds.

Lastly accessing a guild hall should be a new tab in the guild menu teleporting you to your guild hall. This is just a quick draft on some of my ideas for guild halls and GvG. I could spend more time writing this but I’m sure Anet has already got a ton of stuff on the drawing board. I just hope Anet implements Guild halls in the next couple of months as the gem store offers me personally nothing of value and guilds feel less like groups of friends and more like a group of randoms who help each other every once in a while when it benefits themselves.

Never assume anything big will change, it works better that way.

But the thing that gets me is the revisionists history over Guild Wars. Guild Wars 1 focus prior to release was to be nothing short of Guild Wars GvG. PvE was in it to prepare you for PvP, that stated over and over.The lore about Guild Wars wasn’t anywhere to be found as to reflect back to the games name. The game was properly named from what was promised and what we expected. What happened was PvE content was still the biggest selling feature. That above is what happened since before GW 1’s release. I guess since GW2 didn’t focus heavily on Guilds this other explanation of lore had to be dropped on us, that was in no way the spirit of the original intent of GW1. ZERO.

Tom Gore.4035:

I know, it’s like I’ve heard this before, but reading Colin’s plans for 2013 there is nothing about this feature that happens to be in the name of the game!

Why don’t you craft stars in starcraft? I mean it’s in the name of the game! Why don’t you war while crafting in Warcraft? Do you paint elders of scrolls in Elder Scrolls? But it’s the name of the game, what do you mean you don’t?!
The name is the name of the lore. The game was not named over a function.

Mirta.5029:

The name is the name of the lore. The game was not named over a function.

I totally disagree, GW1 was named over the function and talked to the heavens by the developers of GvG focus being the main feature.

‘World Versus World Versus World Versus Enemy Versus Player Wars: the Sequel to Some Other Game’.

Horrorscope.7632:

Mirta.5029:

The name is the name of the lore. The game was not named over a function.

I totally disagree, GW1 was named over the function and talked to the heavens by the developers of GvG focus being the main feature.

except that GvG was not even in the GW1 when it was released. It’s a lore name. Have you actually read the lore?

Naoko.7096:

TC post was exactly what I expected in the PVE content of GW2 end-game.

Yet, they pushed the “war” to WvWvW with no relation to the PVE world.

GW2 end-game would’ve been strong if they did it that way.

—

Do people know one of the main reasons why GW2 has low player concurrency?

There’s no competitive PVE content between players.

GW2 made it in a way there’s no way to compete for anything. Everyone is equal.

Have anyone seen any multi-player (board/cards/video games) with no winners & losers?

In every MMORPG, no matter how different, there’s ways to lets players feel special.

This is why every MMORPG kept the elitism system.

Without it, GW2 isn’t a game as a “MMORPG”.

GW2 merely a console single player game with multi-player add-in + separate PVP irrelevent world.

There’s no “world” inside that progresses among the players.

From the latest blog post, their so called “living world” they kept emphasizing only directs towards players towards PVE/AI/NPCs. They misinterpret players past feedback by having a “world” for GW2.

It’s a dead world as a MMORPG.

—

I’m not talking about MMO. I’m talking about MMORPG.
MMO is the whole genre. MMORPG is a sub-category genre.

It’s a great game as a single-player online game for a group (PVE players) and a multi-player PVP game for another group (PVP-action players). GW2 being just a general MMO is great too. However, it’s still very far of being a MMORPG.

The devs must do more research towards what makes MMORPG addictive/fun to attract the majority of the real mmorpg players. If GW2 wants to become a real MMORPG, I expect to see more improvements for GW2.

I don’t see the innovation of GW2 becoming a revolutionised mmorpg. I see GW2 is merely RPG genre cut to 1/3 and added 2/3 of adventure + action genres elements. This pushes the mmorpg genre backwards.

^ Nailed it.

Every time ANET releases new content:

https://i.minus.com/iLq80JfHWQ4q.gif

I went from playing every day to only logging in every other day and now maybe twice a week for 3-5 minutes, maybe – MAYBE to do a daily.. This game is casual one day and hardcore the next, depending on the argument. I also like how its “B2P” because subscriptions are an “old and tired model”; however 15 a month in this game is a drop in the bucket if you are trying to do anything more than run in circles killing mobs for no reason.

Everything that keeps players playing was removed (or never added), and everything players enjoy about a fantasy game was shifted to the gem store. The new content page is plagued with new an fun grind… I don’t understand the direction of this game at all and everything they said, that got me to buy in early was a flat out lie.

Nappychappy.7046:

however 15 a month in this game is a drop in the bucket if you are trying to do anything more than run in circles killing mobs for no reason.

And what do you do with those gems for 15 pounds/ dollars? Do you buy your way out of playing the game? If so, then what’s the point? To say “I beat it”? Also what would you be doing in the end game in other games? You got the best tier gear set after months of work grinding countless raids and dungeons, now what? You can stand there showing off, but what’s the point?

Nappychappy.7046:

Everything that keeps players playing was removed (or never added)

yet I’m able to play it every day for months as a hardcore gamer? It can’t keep everyone due to people having different tastes.

Nappychappy.7046:

and everything players enjoy about a fantasy game was shifted to the gem store

lets see… You enjoy boosters, make-over kits, town clothing that you barely ever wear and pets that you mostly don’t ever take out?

Mirta.5029:

And what do you do with those gems for 15 pounds/ dollars? Do you buy your way out of playing the game? If so, then what’s the point? To say “I beat it”? Also what would you be doing in the end game in other games? You got the best tier gear set after months of work grinding countless raids and dungeons, now what? You can stand there showing off, but what’s the point?

Thing is, I don’t want to buy endgame, but I have little choice otherwise.

Mirta.5029:

yet I’m able to play it every day for months as a hardcore gamer? It can’t keep everyone due to people having different tastes.

Different tastes? you have like 2 options as hardcore, and both are lackluster to say the least.

Mirta.5029:

lets see… You enjoy boosters, make-over kits, town clothing that you barely ever wear and pets that you mostly don’t ever take out?

I don’t enjoy anything from the gemstore, I just buy legal gold, that is all.

“So… When are Guild Wars coming?”

The day they release a sequel to Guild Wars 1.

You probably won’t see any of that in this game, though.

Nappychappy.7046:

Different tastes? you have like 2 options as hardcore, and both are lackluster to say the least.

hmm
1. WvW
2. Spvp
3. Dungeons
4. Fractals
5. getting all the possible classes to level 80
6. getting all the professions to level 400
7. getting full world explore on all of those said classes
8. If all is said and done, getting legendaries for all of those said classes

Nappychappy.7046:

Thing is, I don’t want to buy endgame, but I have little choice otherwise.
I don’t enjoy anything from the gemstore, I just buy legal gold, that is all.

Well I don’t buy gold, but managed to amass 70 gold so far. Gold is not hard to get and nobody needs to buy the end game in this game.

Mirta.5029:

Nappychappy.7046:

Different tastes? you have like 2 options as hardcore, and both are lackluster to say the least.

hmm
1. WvW
2. Spvp
3. Dungeons
4. Fractals
5. getting all the possible classes to level 80
6. getting all the professions to level 400
7. getting full world explore on all of those said classes
8. If all is said and done, getting legendaries for all of those said classes

Nappychappy.7046:

Thing is, I don’t want to buy endgame, but I have little choice otherwise.
I don’t enjoy anything from the gemstore, I just buy legal gold, that is all.

Well I don’t buy gold, but managed to amass 70 gold so far. Gold is not hard to get and nobody needs to buy the end game in this game.

That isn’t hardcore, that is obsessive.

Lol@70g, please… I am talking much bigger numbers, hell I spent more than that on my t3 cultural 3+ months ago (legit farming 2 days) btw those days are gone.

Nappychappy.7046:

Mirta.5029:

Nappychappy.7046:

Different tastes? you have like 2 options as hardcore, and both are lackluster to say the least.

hmm
1. WvW
2. Spvp
3. Dungeons
4. Fractals
5. getting all the possible classes to level 80
6. getting all the professions to level 400
7. getting full world explore on all of those said classes
8. If all is said and done, getting legendaries for all of those said classes

Nappychappy.7046:

Thing is, I don’t want to buy endgame, but I have little choice otherwise.
I don’t enjoy anything from the gemstore, I just buy legal gold, that is all.

Well I don’t buy gold, but managed to amass 70 gold so far. Gold is not hard to get and nobody needs to buy the end game in this game.

That isn’t hardcore, that is obsessive.

Lol@70g, please… I am talking much bigger numbers, hell I spent more than that on my t3 cultural 3+ months ago (legit farming 2 days) btw those days are gone.

why would you need much bigger numbers though? This is me not trying to farm, playing the game for my pleasure (500 hours in 2 months FTW!) and yes, you have guessed right, I’m saving for the cultural t3 at this point.
Now if I wanted to make huge sums of money
- weapon smithing, farm lodestones in dungeons, sell special weapon skins for 50G or more.
- TP playing
- dungeoning, yellows for sale if worth it, exotics for sale if worth it (if not get ectos from both), blues and greens for mystic forging, dungeon tickets for buying dungeon gear to ecto it once again. Sell ectos for profit or collect them for things that you need them for (ascended upgrades, legendaries)
I don’t really see the rush for getting money though having in mind that it would give me no advantage.

Mirta.5029:

Nappychappy.7046:

Mirta.5029:

Nappychappy.7046:

Different tastes? you have like 2 options as hardcore, and both are lackluster to say the least.

hmm
1. WvW
2. Spvp
3. Dungeons
4. Fractals
5. getting all the possible classes to level 80
6. getting all the professions to level 400
7. getting full world explore on all of those said classes
8. If all is said and done, getting legendaries for all of those said classes

Nappychappy.7046:

Thing is, I don’t want to buy endgame, but I have little choice otherwise.
I don’t enjoy anything from the gemstore, I just buy legal gold, that is all.

Well I don’t buy gold, but managed to amass 70 gold so far. Gold is not hard to get and nobody needs to buy the end game in this game.

That isn’t hardcore, that is obsessive.

Lol@70g, please… I am talking much bigger numbers, hell I spent more than that on my t3 cultural 3+ months ago (legit farming 2 days) btw those days are gone.

why would you need much bigger numbers though? This is me not trying to farm, playing the game for my pleasure (500 hours in 2 months FTW!) and yes, you have guessed right, I’m saving for the cultural t3 at this point.
Now if I wanted to make huge sums of money
- weapon smithing, farm lodestones in dungeons, sell special weapon skins for 50G or more.
- TP playing
- dungeoning, yellows for sale if worth it, exotics for sale if worth it (if not get ectos from both), blues and greens for mystic forging, dungeon tickets for buying dungeon gear to ecto it once again. Sell ectos for profit or collect them for things that you need them for (ascended upgrades, legendaries)
I don’t really see the rush for getting money though having in mind that it would give me no advantage.

Go spend a day trying to make some progress on a legendary, better yet spend weeks trying to gather charged lodestones, months trying to get precursor. Legendary is endgame for me, that other stuff you listed is pretty boring to me at this point, reason why I talk about big numbers is because most of the ways to get gold via playing the game (not a sub game ie: market sim) have been nerf’d. ArenaNet has made the open world a pointless place. I don’t want to do FotM all day, every day, just so I can work on my legendary. “Let the player decide” LOL! Honestly though I’d love to finish Sunrise and shelf the game.

Charged Lodes are pushing 4g ea. and the precursor is what 400g?

I’m just sayin’, what you’re working on, I’ve done already, over and over and over.

Nappychappy.7046:

Go spend a day trying to make some progress on a legendary, better yet spend weeks trying to gather charged lodestones, months trying to get precursor. Legendary is endgame for me, that other stuff is pretty boring to me at this point, reason why I talk about big numbers is because most of the ways to get gold via playing the game (not a sub game ie: market sim) have been nerf’d. ArenaNet has made the open world a pointless place. I don’t want to do FotM all day, every day, just so I can work on my legendary. “Let the player decide” LOL! Honestly though I’d love to finish Sunrise and shelf the game.

But that’s why it is legendary. Not everybody in a game should be able to acquire it and it should take months of work just to get it.

Any area in the game world could be turned into a instance if Anet wanted to. We know this from SP mode.

Creating areas in each zone that can be instanced for a Guild War can be done. As someone above suggested. There needs to be a way for guild leaders to challenge each other or get to know each other (mabe a all GL only map chat).

Mirta.5029:

But that’s why it is legendary. Not everybody in a game should be able to acquire it and it should take months of work just to get it.

Really? You do know that you can just buy most of the mats, or the weapon right? So your saying it’s not for those who don’t want to spend 2,000+ USD, nor for the people who will grind for what they need til the end of time, because of RNG? The system you support will be the death of this game. Being funneled into RMT to prevent people from playing the game, pretty much kills off the reason why we PLAY the game.

Nappychappy.7046:

I went from playing every day to only logging in every other day and now maybe twice a week for 3-5 minutes, maybe – MAYBE to do a daily.. This game is casual one day and hardcore the next, depending on the argument. I also like how its “B2P” because subscriptions are an “old and tired model”; however 15 a month in this game is a drop in the bucket if you are trying to do anything more than run in circles killing mobs for no reason.

Everything that keeps players playing was removed (or never added), and everything players enjoy about a fantasy game was shifted to the gem store. The new content page is plagued with new an fun grind… I don’t understand the direction of this game at all and everything they said, that got me to buy in early was a flat out lie.

Okay, I’m not pleased with the game I got either.

But this….this is blatantly false.

There are plenty of things to do, I’m still leveling most of my characters with over 800 hours logged because I find plenty to keep me busy.

The Gem Store’s items are entirely cosmetic with the sole exception being the boosters, which don’t actually significantly adjust your overall performance levels in combat (only increase the speed at which you gain rewards, which makes it no worse or better than other MMOs).

If you’re actually trying to claim that this game is a “buy-to-win” model then I’m going to be blunt in asking this: You’ve never played any other MMOs before, have you? I refuse to believe that anyone with extensive experience in the genre would claim that this game is “buy-to-win” considering how very little of your overall experience boils down to how much gold you have. Oh noes, some people can buy their Legendaries! Yeah, that’s a problem but it hardly makes the game B2W.

Nappychappy.7046:

Mirta.5029:

But that’s why it is legendary. Not everybody in a game should be able to acquire it and it should take months of work just to get it.

Really? You do know that you can just buy most of the mats, or the weapon right? So your saying it’s not for those who don’t want to spend 2,000+ USD, nor for the people who will grind for what they need til the end of time, because of RNG? The system you support will be the death of this game. Being funneled into RMT to prevent people from playing the game, pretty much kills off the reason why we PLAY the game.

it’s a long term goal. Are you saying that if you’re making 5 gold a day you couldn’t get 2000 in 1, 2 years? How long does it take to get the most unique weapons in other MMOs? Just as long. The game is about playing. If, like I said, you want to buy the end game by spending 2 000 USD, then it’s better for the company and other players because you’re funding the game, however such activity is pointless and stupid.

Mirta.5029:

Horrorscope.7632:

Mirta.5029:

The name is the name of the lore. The game was not named over a function.

I totally disagree, GW1 was named over the function and talked to the heavens by the developers of GvG focus being the main feature.

except that GvG was not even in the GW1 when it was released. It’s a lore name. Have you actually read the lore?

Yes it was. Guild Halls came in later, but you could GvG from day one. I can prove it with a link if I have to.