Guild Wars 2

If the devs would make it so that future expansions require a subscription, it would benefit both the community and also the developers. It would allow for the developers to have resources available to continuously develop new content, and also allow continuous endgame content for players who desire to continue further.

All in all, I believe it was a great decision to make the original game free, but allow for players who desire to play future expansions the ability to subscribe.

Thanks.

Final Edit: I now believe this to be wrong, as the user base is right in their opinion and ANet should keep its original vision and promise because it will be the most profitable one in the end.

uhm no.

The new subs would not only not go to the future development of the game, but it would most likely go directly into the pockets of the stock holders (such as Nexon) who already are suspected in having entirely too much control over the creative process.

17 years of mmo history proves that this is not a good idea especially now that they have other issues that will most likely soon affect the number of players they have now if not corrected soon, if you require a sub for those things, then the number of subscribers becomes a mandatory thing to keep the game going and could drastically affect costs of expansions as well as cause serious support issues far worse then what was experienced at launch.

Naw. They never had a sub in GW1 and they had content patches and expacs.

Colin Johanson said that the Jan & Feb patches together would be as much content as an expansion. Hold on to your hat!

You’ve been brainwashed into thinking a sub is neccesary. It’s not. The games that charge them are ripping you off.

How do you expect microtransactions to last though, the player-base is a limited and fixed amount. It’s not like endless people are going to surge in and buy cosmetics. I believe microtransactions won’t work in the long run once everybody has already purchased their share of cosmetics.

But if it works out, and can power future expansions, then I’m all for it.

I’m all for these new models encouraging free media for the enjoyment of the customers, such as the free Google Cloud operating system. It seems to benefit the producers too, I’m not clear on such business models, but this type of ideal might be hard to sustain.

Once again, if it works then it’s golden.

Would immediately go from almost never playing the game to never playing the game.

Biggest troll thread ever. Op just need some attention.

If you would have asked me before Gw2 came out if I would pay a sub for it (many forum posters did) I would have said absolutely, but with the immense grind that this game is for everything I find it hard to justify even using the gem shop.

If they want to do a sub, it would now have to be optional. Think if I give $5/mo, I get that doubled with gems each month. $10, doubled again with a bag of random goodies, like Karka chest… Something in those lines I think.

No thanks, just because a game is pay to play doesnt make it better or more widely liked…Rift and Warhammer are good examples of that…While games like Aion are as polished as they were when they were p2p as f2p models (not saying a like it wasnt a good game before or now) but it didnt lose anything

The devs have already done a 180 on the core promise of this game with no gear grind….changing to a subscription model is not out of the question based upon that.

I would greatly prefer to pay 15$ per month and have decent drops and a normal mmorpg economy than to deal with the situation we have now.

Can you even imagine how much more enjoyable holiday events would be if half of the content wasnt locked inside a RNG black lion chest?

Karizee.8076:

You’ve been brainwashed into thinking a sub is neccesary. It’s not. The games that charge them are ripping you off.

Ever heard of EVE online ? subscription is worth it for games that have a decent company behind them…GW2 does not……EVE and CCP put GW2 to shame, and every other game on the market to be honest, they set the standard in quality.

No thanks. Sounds as bad as horizontal progression to me. If I wanted a sub game I’d go play one of the 10000000000000s.

What is wrong with you, OP? ;/

Subscription isn’t a viable business model anymore for non-WoW games. WoW can keep doing it because it’s WoW. Other games that try it just die.

The funniest joke I have seen on this forums ever!
A good laugh, thanks!

Since Wow has a sub that means all games with a sub = 12 million players.

Logic wins.

Are you trolling? Seriously, no. The game has been made free and will always be IMO.

I personally spend a lot in the store and I’m glad of this business model, because like this month I really didn’t play a lot and would had wasted 20 bucks on a game that I didn’t play. But not with GW2, I didn’t pay a penny this month because I didn’t played.

That’s the point and is why this business model is way better than the pay to play model.

Dead.7385:

Since Wow has a sub that means all games with a sub = 12 million players.

Logic wins.

Lol, it’s been years since WoW had 12 mil subs.

Malvagite.3254:

The devs have already done a 180 on the core promise of this game with no gear grind….changing to a subscription model is not out of the question based upon that.

I would greatly prefer to pay 15$ per month and have decent drops and a normal mmorpg economy than to deal with the situation we have now.

Can you even imagine how much more enjoyable holiday events would be if half of the content wasnt locked inside a RNG black lion chest?

Indeed, Malvagite, an awful lot of people are ignoring just how much of an effect the arrival of Nexon staff into the development cycle in June has had on the game. The changes that were made even during the beta weekend cycles heralded a whole new direction for character progression and wealth accumulation in Guild Wars 2, and I would have to agree with you in terms of a subscription fee system in exchange for the removal of the underhanded returns system manipulation.
Every person who spends real world money in the gem store, and then converts it to in-game gold to spend on an item with an inflated cost (due to scarcity of materials, or quantity levels required being high for new recipes) needs to have a good hard look at the facts in evidence on sites like gw2spidy.
They are going to make you pay extra each month to acquire what was intended to be obtainable without expenditure anyhow.
The only real query is was it only intended to appear short-term blind cash-ins, or was the goal to make people reach the conclusion themselves that they would rather pay a subscription than to have to progress through endless micro-transactions?
The silence on the issue of crippled loot tables from the developers would seem to speak volumes, but perhaps they are in the uncomfortable position of having it completely out of their hands, and are made to endure the appearances of incompetence to divert attention away from the actual source of these changes?
I just wish I could go back to playing the kitten game, and not have to deal with this nonsense of attempting to second-guess the motives of vampiric entertainment industry strip-miners.

no thanks, i rather pay a 1 time payment for expansion rather than monthly.

FaRectification.5678:

How do you expect microtransactions to last though, the player-base is a limited and fixed amount. It’s not like endless people are going to surge in and buy cosmetics. I believe microtransactions won’t work in the long run once everybody has already purchased their share of cosmetics.

But if it works out, and can power future expansions, then I’m all for it.

I’m all for these new models encouraging free media for the enjoyment of the customers, such as the free Google Cloud operating system. It seems to benefit the producers too, I’m not clear on such business models, but this type of ideal might be hard to sustain.

Once again, if it works then it’s golden.

To expand on this… It might come as a surprise, but The people who make GW2 are a business. This game wasn’t created so we have something to do, it was created to make money. When that money stops coming in, they’re going t look to other ways to make it.

Basically, as soon as the cash shop idea fails since purely cosmetic upgrades only appeal to only one group out of the many that play games like this, that’s when content patches start getting released as expansions we have to buy, when gearing up to equal ground as everyone else means throwing some money into the cash shop… Whether you’re paying a subscription, or buying all new content and gear with rl money, you’re going to pay that money…

There is no truely free to play MMORPG. They don’t exist, it would be a loss for the company since the game needs constant updating and maintenance, who would want to do that? The free to play model benefits the company since they can gate all content behind a shop, keeping the game as a steady source of income, even when it’s dying (why so many previously pay to play MMORPGS are going Free to play with a cash shop or limited playability without a sub). But the subscription model benefits us because we actually have some leverage into the direction of the game…. If we don’t want to pay for content patches, we just stop paying, and then content patches end up being free.

The OP isn’t a troll, you’re just all falling for a marketing trick. Yeah, it’s free to play Guild Wars 2, but how much more is the gem shop going to grow than the game?

What lunacy is this! Why would you want to give away money for nothing?!

And by they way, the marketing we all got was ‘NO SUBSCRIPTIONS!’ And I would think it’d include expansions as well (1 time purchase for each one of course).

This means they could not legally say to their millions of customers which bought their game based on this fact, ‘Sorry, but we’ve decided to rip you all off $?/month.’

They’ve made their product, marketed it, and sold it without subs. And you’re kidding yourself OP if you think the game on subs would give you better gear or change the way the game plays.

Yeah, let’s introduce subs for an already dying game.

Brilliant!

Worst idea I’ve heard in a while. Let’s take yet another “feature” of the stereotypical MMO and put it into the game billed as the anti-MMO MMO.

StormageddonBK.9842:

What lunacy is this! Why would you want to give away money for nothing?!

And by they way, the marketing we all got was ‘NO SUBSCRIPTIONS!’ And I would think it’d include expansions as well (1 time purchase for each one of course).

This means they could not legally say to their millions of customers which bought their game based on this fact, ‘Sorry, but we’ve decided to rip you all off $?/month.’

They’ve made their product, marketed it, and sold it without subs. And you’re kidding yourself OP if you think the game on subs would give you better gear or change the way the game plays.

The marketing also would have had us believe that we would never be driven to the gem store as a means to acquire gold to cover artificially inflated costs of materials due to unadvertised and unacknowledged reductions in open world loot, or informed us of the rapid introduction of increasing tiers of itemization requiring, unsurprisingly, quite vast quantities of said materials.
Nor indeed did the advertising make mention of the cyclic manipulation of scripted market suppliers, whose existence and activities serve said economic process to further increase the capacities of the monetization treadmill.
But most regrettably of all – we have no rainbow-imbued ponies upon which to canter across the plains of Queensdale, resplendent in all our finery. This is the greatest of travesties.

they CAN legally release an expansion as pay to play. The original game up to that point has to stay free, but from any point on they can make the game subscription based.

And again, you’re not giving money for nothing, you’re going to give that money. Either you’re paying a subscripton every month, or you’re buying a new expansion every few months where everyone else releases a content patch. Or you need to have that set of gear before you can do the new stuff they added to the game? 1,000 gems / piece. There is no such thing as a free to play MMORPG, they have to make back their development and operating costs.

Go look at any free to play MMORPG out there. They lure you in with the fact that yes, the game is free to play, but they never said it was free to progress.

puffintoast.6501:

StormageddonBK.9842:

What lunacy is this! Why would you want to give away money for nothing?!

And by they way, the marketing we all got was ‘NO SUBSCRIPTIONS!’ And I would think it’d include expansions as well (1 time purchase for each one of course).

This means they could not legally say to their millions of customers which bought their game based on this fact, ‘Sorry, but we’ve decided to rip you all off $?/month.’

They’ve made their product, marketed it, and sold it without subs. And you’re kidding yourself OP if you think the game on subs would give you better gear or change the way the game plays.

The marketing also would have had us believe that we would never be driven to the gem store as a means to acquire gold to cover artificially inflated costs of materials due to unadvertised and unacknowledged reductions in open world loot, or informed us of the rapid introduction of increasing tiers of itemization requiring, unsurprisingly, quite vast quantities of said materials.
Nor indeed did the advertising make mention of the cyclic manipulation of scripted market suppliers, whose existence and activities serve said economic process to further increase the capacities of the monetization treadmill.
But most regrettably of all – we have no rainbow-imbued ponies upon which to canter across the plains of Queensdale, resplendent in all our finery. This is the greatest of travesties.

Yes my daughter wanted the pony too!!! :P

tonyl.5063:

they CAN legally release an expansion as pay to play. The original game up to that point has to stay free, but from any point on they can make the game subscription based.

And again, you’re not giving money for nothing, you’re going to give that money. Either you’re paying a subscripton every month, or you’re buying a new expansion every few months where everyone else releases a content patch. Or you need to have that set of gear before you can do the new stuff they added to the game? 1,000 gems / piece. There is no such thing as a free to play MMORPG, they have to make back their development and operating costs.

Go look at any free to play MMORPG out there. They lure you in with the fact that yes, the game is free to play, but they never said it was free to progress.

Do you really think a subscription would “replace” the purchase price? Look at the other MMOs out there, WoW doesn’t forgo purchase prices for their $15/month fee.

If everyone already complains about everything while not paying any subscriptions,
i dont know what would gw2 fans do if they pay a subscription.

WoW releases content patches with the amount of content as EQ2 expansions did. You pay for expansions since it’s a complete rebuild of the game, but the individual content patches, they give it to you in that price. But EQ2, LOTRO, SW:TOR, AoC, if you want those content patches, you’re paying for it, because they call that one single new instance an expansion.

FaRectification.5678:

If the devs would make it so that future expansions require a subscription, it would benefit both the community and also the developers. It would allow for the developers to have resources available to continuously develop new content, and also allow continuous endgame content for players who desire to continue further.

All in all, I believe it was a great decision to make the original game free, but allow for players who desire to play future expansions the ability to subscribe.

Thanks.

This game isn’t really worth free time at the moment let alone a subscription. WoW and MWO Beta have it beat. MWO a little on the grindie side but still only a fraction of the GW2 Grind.

Robbyx.1284:

Karizee.8076:

You’ve been brainwashed into thinking a sub is neccesary. It’s not. The games that charge them are ripping you off.

Ever heard of EVE online ? subscription is worth it for games that have a decent company behind them…GW2 does not……EVE and CCP put GW2 to shame, and every other game on the market to be honest, they set the standard in quality.

Horrible quality. Used to play EVE as my main game. It was awesome back in the day. Been getting worse each expansion for the past 5-6 years. EVE good game garbage company. Kinda reminds me of GW2 up until 11/15 now EVE is probably even better game with less grind. At least with EVE grind you didn’t have to be online =P

What, so they can make money off people buying gold with gems and also get to make money off sub fees? Not a chance. It would be sort of funny to see them try tacking on a sub, though. Strange and sad, but also funny.

No, no and once again no.

3 negatives equates to a negative overall.

I would instantaneously go from “avid player” to “deleted account”.

GW1 did fine without a sub. GW2 starting out with an ingame store already has a leg up on that. It’s also proven that they can make plenty of money of expansions. If they added a sub model it would drive so many people away it would make the qq about ascended gear look like nothing.

The biggest draw to this game is the LACK of a subscription to keep it going. The whole business model is based on making money off the sales of new expansions. Conclusion, your idea is absurd.

tonyl.5063:

WoW releases content patches with the amount of content as EQ2 expansions did. You pay for expansions since it’s a complete rebuild of the game, but the individual content patches, they give it to you in that price. But EQ2, LOTRO, SW:TOR, AoC, if you want those content patches, you’re paying for it, because they call that one single new instance an expansion.

I have a question, have you been Ignoring all the updates so far???

dgns been added, new maps been added and a ton of other stuff.

They about to do another major update with new stuff on the 14th.

Then in jan/feb together patches they aiming for a entire expansion worth of content.

They want to keep adding in content every month for free, and Ive made so much money ive brought over 10k gems with gold. Also full t3 culture and a lot more.

So not brought a single gem with gold and I will not. It so easy to make gold in this game.

So only the type of stuff they have in item mall right now and paid expansions. Is all they will do.

McSlappy.1372:

Robbyx.1284:

Karizee.8076:

You’ve been brainwashed into thinking a sub is neccesary. It’s not. The games that charge them are ripping you off.

Ever heard of EVE online ? subscription is worth it for games that have a decent company behind them…GW2 does not……EVE and CCP put GW2 to shame, and every other game on the market to be honest, they set the standard in quality.

Horrible quality. Used to play EVE as my main game. It was awesome back in the day. Been getting worse each expansion for the past 5-6 years. EVE good game garbage company. Kinda reminds me of GW2 up until 11/15 now EVE is probably even better game with less grind. At least with EVE grind you didn’t have to be online =P

Really I got all 3 piece of acs in less then 20hrs. Spending only 2hrs a day on it. How the hell is that grind??

lazymustard.6491:

The biggest draw to this game is the LACK of a subscription to keep it going. The whole business model is based on making money off the sales of new expansions. Conclusion, your idea is absurd.

The business model of the original Guild Wars was built on the sale of new expansions, and I’m sure the original drive with this sequel was the same, however far back in the development and funds-securing process that was.
But an awful lot has changed over the course of 2012, and unfortunately the expansions alone are not the focus anymore.
Perhaps with a bit of luck, the cash cow currently being groomed and fattened up will turn out to be a poor yielder. Fingers crossed.

McSlappy.1372:

Robbyx.1284:

Karizee.8076:

You’ve been brainwashed into thinking a sub is neccesary. It’s not. The games that charge them are ripping you off.

Ever heard of EVE online ? subscription is worth it for games that have a decent company behind them…GW2 does not……EVE and CCP put GW2 to shame, and every other game on the market to be honest, they set the standard in quality.

Horrible quality. Used to play EVE as my main game. It was awesome back in the day. Been getting worse each expansion for the past 5-6 years. EVE good game garbage company. Kinda reminds me of GW2 up until 11/15 now EVE is probably even better game with less grind. At least with EVE grind you didn’t have to be online =P

In your opinion you mean…EVE has just been getting better and better, with new, free content regularly…it just set new game records for numbers…as to the company, CCP is without a doubt the single most dedicated and committed game company out there, that is not an opinion, it is a fact.
No company is more open and transparent with its players, with Devs constantly replying and answering questions on the forums, and even giving their opinions in the more frivolous threads.

Anet on the other hand are just a terrible company who had a good idea for a game then ruined it with complete incompetence and terrible mismanagement…..rarely have i seen a company with such distaste and indifference towards its customers…we are the customers, they should be chasing us, CCP understands and practices that mantra.

if they added subscription AND removed gem to gold exchange… now that would be a plus

Yes, to turn around my original post I believe all of your opinions and ANet’s original no-sub plan is correct.

It is a good ideal to maintain and will enable them to profit in the long run.

I was wrong sorry.

Speaking of whether subscription or f2p model is better is imho irrelevant to the development of MMO.

More core to whether the MMO can attract and keep its players is its quality of play. If it is good, players will pay for it (e.g. WoW). If it is lousy, players will still not play it even though it is f2p (e.g. SWTOR).

FaRectification.5678:

Yes, to turn around my original post I believe all of your opinions and ANet’s original no-sub plan is correct.

It is a good ideal to maintain and will enable them to profit in the long run.

I was wrong sorry.

… but in light of what has transpired, particularly since mid-year, there are actually some amongst us who would almost rather a subscription-based direction, if it also entailed a removal of the travesty that is the gem store, and all that the monetization drive has engendered.
You shouldn’t feel the need to alter your original post as though an overwhelming majority of clearly presented arguments have made you ‘see the light’, so to speak.
I thought it was a fine idea for a discussion.

Veldan.4637:

if they added subscription AND removed gem to gold exchange… now that would be a plus

For the gold sellers yes it sure would.

puffintoast.6501:

FaRectification.5678:

Yes, to turn around my original post I believe all of your opinions and ANet’s original no-sub plan is correct.

It is a good ideal to maintain and will enable them to profit in the long run.

I was wrong sorry.

… but in light of what has transpired, particularly since mid-year, there are actually some amongst us who would almost rather a subscription-based direction, if it also entailed a removal of the travesty that is the gem store, and all that the monetization drive has engendered.
You shouldn’t feel the need to alter your original post as though an overwhelming majority of clearly presented arguments have made you ‘see the light’, so to speak.
I thought it was a fine idea for a discussion.

No, really, it was my honest opinion. As someone has said before, people don’t learn from positive lessons, they learn from negative ones (not that this is right). If ANet continues in a direction that’s harmful to its users its obvious which direction that will go in. Ideals are a very important thing to maintain no matter what you are doing. Time and time again it’s been shown that those who keep to positive avenues and don’t get sidetracked will benefit. It’s just a matter of time before WoW crashes.

EsLafiel.4517:

tonyl.5063:

WoW releases content patches with the amount of content as EQ2 expansions did. You pay for expansions since it’s a complete rebuild of the game, but the individual content patches, they give it to you in that price. But EQ2, LOTRO, SW:TOR, AoC, if you want those content patches, you’re paying for it, because they call that one single new instance an expansion.

I have a question, have you been Ignoring all the updates so far???

dgns been added, new maps been added and a ton of other stuff.

They about to do another major update with new stuff on the 14th.

Then in jan/feb together patches they aiming for a entire expansion worth of content.

They want to keep adding in content every month for free, and Ive made so much money ive brought over 10k gems with gold. Also full t3 culture and a lot more.

So not brought a single gem with gold and I will not. It so easy to make gold in this game.

So only the type of stuff they have in item mall right now and paid expansions. Is all they will do.

The game is new, they’re still making sales on it. Wait until that slows down, and the game hits that peak, and watch how much it changes.

ANet is NOT the first company to use this approach to an MMORPG, but everyone who did, they all ended up the same way.

We’re getting free content patches now, but that’s because they’re adding features into the game to attract more players and increase sales. That’ll level out eventally, and either we’re going to be paying for content, or we’re going to be paying for what we need to get that content. ANet is NOT going to run servers and update a game when there’s no profit in it for them. They have to pay for the servers and bandwidth, they have to pay the people developing the game…

Do some reasearch, there’s literally hundreds of free MMORPGs out there that use a cash shop, pay attention to how much is really gated behind that single feature.

No matter what, you’re going to pay that money. But unlike a cash-shop, a subscription gives the players some leverage in the direction of the game. There is no such thing as a 100% free to play MMORPG.

The free model is designed to benefit the business, not the people playing it. It’s only an illusion of being free, you always still end up paying that money.

Ruby Red.4019:

Veldan.4637:

if they added subscription AND removed gem to gold exchange… now that would be a plus

For the gold sellers yes it sure would.

for those it actually wouldn’t make a difference

I played other games with similar exchange mechanic, and they were full of gold sellers anyway. The only reason they don’t have a big presence in GW2 is that Arenanet is actually succesful at fighting them. Ever noticed that at the start you’d see spammers and get gold seller mails, but not anymore, while the demand for gold should have increased because of ascended?

FaRectification.5678:

If the devs would make it so that future expansions require a subscription, it would benefit both the community and also the developers.

Stopped reading here.

This game has a cash shop, which you can bet ANet will expand on. I fully expect to see more skins, more shiny stuff, and even some items that will probably cause a stir.

The population of this game was up in arms over them adding a tier of gear… what do you think would happen if Mike O’Brien suddenly stepped up to the mic and said, “oh by the way… we’re adding a subscription for our next content patch!”

People would go ballistic.

Go back to a sub based game if that’s what you want.