Guild Wars 2

That’s the textbook definition of criticism.

really because where i come from, there is a suggestion on how to improve the idea/concept attached to the criticism.

it’s also know as constructive criticism

Okay, then. Trash everything you got so far because it is too similar to existing professions and start over at square one.

Sam Magicman.1395:

really because where i come from, there is a suggestion on how to improve the idea/concept attached to the criticism.

it’s also know as constructive criticism

Just ignore him. He’s trying to derail your thread and force the mods to close it due to it becoming nothing but a persistent argument. An inventive; if somewhat obvious, troll. Ignore him and he’ll go away.

Ah, ye olde method of calling people who don’t agree with you “a troll”. Sorry I didn’t shower your mediocre and clichéd profession suggestions with praise. As I said, I calls them like I sees them. You asked for feedback by making these threads, and I gave it. That it wasn’t the praise and adoration you expected is not my problem.

I’m not even at step two yet. This idea is far from pefect and still very much a work in progress. i made this quite clear, if you had borthered to read my opening post at all Oglaf.

this conversation is over

and Arkham, perhaps we could work together on our ideas. I am a big time lore fan of many games, and it’s lots of fun creating ideas to expand on lore

Sam Magicman.1395:

I’m not even at step two yet. This idea is far from pefect and still very much a work in progress. i made this quite clear, if you had borthered to read my opening post at all Oglaf.

this conversation is over

and Arkham, perhaps we could work together on our ideas. I am a big time lore fan of many games, and it’s lots of fun creating ideas to expand on lore

Perhaps we could. Although my flashes of inspiration or rather random and infrequent. And again; just ignore Oglaf; he was bashing my idea literally one minute after I finished posting it, and unless he is some kind of world class speed reader I think anyone that even glances at how long the THREE posts of said idea is could guess he didn’t even read it. The content of his post only proving that. He isn’t worth the effort to debate.

Arkham Creed.7358:

He isn’t worth the effort to debate.

Of course I aren’t.

I disagreed with you.

Arkham Creed.7358:

Sam Magicman.1395:

I’m not even at step two yet. This idea is far from pefect and still very much a work in progress. i made this quite clear, if you had borthered to read my opening post at all Oglaf.

this conversation is over

and Arkham, perhaps we could work together on our ideas. I am a big time lore fan of many games, and it’s lots of fun creating ideas to expand on lore

Perhaps we could. Although my flashes of inspiration or rather random and infrequent. And again; just ignore Oglaf; he was bashing my idea literally one minute after I finished posting it, and unless he is some kind of world class speed reader I think anyone that even glances at how long the THREE posts of said idea is could guess he didn’t even read it. The content of his post only proving that. He isn’t worth the effort to debate.

who’s isn’t? most good ideas are “1% inspiration and 99% perspiration” to quote edison.

Oglaf, i am asking you ot leave my thread, you have nothing else constructive to contribute and only clutter up my thread. and you only prove Arkham’s point

Arkham Creed.7358:

You attacked my idea solely because of its name, and even that was an example of your ignorance of Guild Wars lore. There is disagreeing, and there is shamefully insisting on a factually inaccurate premise. Your efforts embody the latter. On the internet that is called trolling, regardless of your opinions on the matter.

I didn’t “attack” your idea because of the name.

I “disagreed” with your idea because of the name.

Stop taking things so personally. Chillax. As I said, if you only expect praise of your suggestions, don’t post it. People are going to disagree with it, even (dare I say?) criticize it.

EDIT: How cute, you deleted your post, Arkham. Real mature.

Can i ask that if you don’ have an on topic dicussion, then please don’t put it here.

Oglaf, this the second time i ask you to not post here. if you continue to disregard my request ill have to report you

Sam Magicman.1395:

Oglaf, this the second time i ask you to not post here. if you continue to disregard my request ill have to report you

I’m sorry, but you’re not in any position to tell people where they can’t post.

Anyway.

Indulge me. Tell me how you’d change your idea as to not be the same as a Mesmer? Short-lived, “ghostly” pets with various offensive and defensive abilities is exactly what Mesmer is about. Well, one aspect of Mesmer anyway.

Not sure if that is a reportable offense. He has just as much right as anyone to post in whatever thread he wishes so long as he keeps within the rules of the forum. Criticism, no matter how useless it ends up being, is still on topic if it’s about the OP.

Regarding the idea, I read it and thought it was alright but should definitely finish it up before I really pass judgement on it. Honestly, the premise of the profession doesn’t interest me that much. But it’s all in the application. Even if it does something the same as another profession, it’s the manner they perform that something that matters, IMO.

The difference between spirits and illusions is the fact one is real and the other is the figment of it’s creator’s imagination.

and I don’t merely intend on making the summons just “spirits” and “ghosts” i want to create a multitude of creatures called by this profession.

and FYI, because it is MY thread i have every right to ask you to not post here.

especially when you go on bickering with other players and posting off topic.

Sam Magicman.1395:

The difference between spirits and illusions is the fact one is real and the other is the figment of it’s creator’s imagination.

and I don’t merely intend on making the summons just “spirits” and “ghosts” i want to create a multitude of creatures called by this profession.

See, that doesn’t exactly change the core problem: that it would be essentially a reskin of existing Mesmer abilities. If you create a profession that uses Stealth in exactly the same way as Thieves currently do, but you say that this new profession doesn’t stealth at all; it magically switches to an alternative dimension for the duration… that doesn’t change the fact that it is still a copy of the Thief profession. See where I’m going with this?

Sam Magicman.1395:

and FYI, because it is MY thread i have every right to ask you to not post here.

No, no you do not. You technically have no special rights nor actual ownership of this thread just because you started it.

I have every right to ask a person to stop posting on a thread i created, especially when the user is only causing problems which you have.

I have to ask if you ever used a mesmer? the main concept of the mesmer is using their mastery of mind to create powerful illusions to befuddle their enemies, these include creating illusions.

a summoner is pulling a creature out of the mists to act on their behalf, there is nothing about that which screams “iillusion” or “trick of the mind”

Sam Magicman.1395:

I have to ask if you ever used a mesmer? the main concept of the mesmer is using their mastery of mind to create powerful illusions to befuddle their enemies, these include creating illusions. A summoner is pulling a creature out of the mists to act on their behalf, there is nothing about that which screams “iillusion” or “trick of the mind”

Again, you focus too much on the concept here. See back to my Thief analogy in my previous post. It doesn’t matter if the concept behind your profession is different if it plays out the same.

Sam Magicman.1395:

I have every right to ask a person to stop posting on a thread i created.

You sure do. I, however, have every right to ignore you on that and keep posting until a moderator locks the thread.

Sam Magicman.1395:

especially when the user is only causing problems which you have.

Whatever problems I have caused in this thread are a direct result of your inability to take criticism.

the concept is what makes the profession unique, it is what drives the mechanics towards a more unique style of gameplay.

i would also like to point out that all the professions have some similar ideas, but still manage to pull off a unique style of gameplay. asking for an absolutely unique profession and all it’s skills and abilities to be entirely unique as well is asking for the impossible.

and last time i checked, criticism did not include bickering with other players, which is all you have done since posting here.

bickering with me and bickering with other posters.

Sam Magicman.1395:

the concept is what makes the profession unique, it is what drives the mechanics towards a more unique style of gameplay.

Not if the concept is not reflected in game play mechanics. The functionality of your “Spirits”, as you have described them, are nothing short of identical to Mesmer’s Phantasms.

Sam Magicman.1395:

Asking for an absolutely unique profession and all it’s skills and abilities to be entirely unique as well is asking for the impossible.

Yet Anet managed to create 8 professions which are all truly unique in gameplay mechanics and concept-wise.

Sam Magicman.1395:

and last time i checked, criticism did not include bickering with other players, which is all you have done since posting here.

bickering with me and bickering with other posters.

That’s because your definition of “bickering” is “disagreeing with” or “criticizing me or my idea”.

Oglaf.1074:

Sam Magicman.1395:

the concept is what makes the profession unique, it is what drives the mechanics towards a more unique style of gameplay.

Not if the concept is not reflected in game play mechanics. The functionality of your “Spirits”, as you have described them, are nothing short of identical to Mesmer’s Phantasms.

Sam Magicman.1395:

Asking for an absolutely unique profession and all it’s skills and abilities to be entirely unique as well is asking for the impossible.

Yet Anet managed to create 8 professions which are all truly unique in gameplay mechanics and concept-wise.

Sam Magicman.1395:

and last time i checked, criticism did not include bickering with other players, which is all you have done since posting here.

bickering with me and bickering with other posters.

That’s because your definition of “bickering” is “disagreeing with” or “criticizing me or my idea”.

I would like to point out your flawed logic. unless you are blantantly ignoring the obvious, every single profession has skills and abilities that are similar to that of the others. the unique gameplay is the way these abilities and skills are ultilized that makes them different from each other.

so why should a new profession be any different? if you can’t see this, then there is no need to continue a pointless conversation.

YOUR SPIRITS FUNCTION EXACTLY LIKE THE VARIOUS MESMER PHANTASMS!

If you can’t see the difference between something being similar and something being a clone (pardon the pun), then yes.

It is a pointless discussion.

that is the whole point in dicussing and change and reworking all the ideas of this thread, but you seem to only care about destroying the entire concept.

so you are so stuck on it being similar to the mesmer phantasms,so why not SUGGEST some new ideas to change that so it no longer functions like a mesmer?

A summoner could be a very interesting profession that would let other players think twice about where to place their aoe’s.
As their summon circles could be activated when an enemy skill fuels the energy to create a gate when the initial field gets hit;it could turn into next stage gate
(some require enemy skill,others the skill of ally)
A summoner could easily overwhelm those that use skills and aoe without thinking.

so their main hand skills could create 3 types of forcefields for each weapon they use, somewhere on the battlefield..(max 3 gates up)
With their offhand they could tap energy that has been drawn to the summon circles to defend themselves while no summon circles have turned into summon gates yet
Or to defend their other gates that have been activated (knockbacks,energyblasts,..)
It would be a shame if this topic gets trashed to the floor.
I bet there are several other mechanics people could come up with that could make this profession work.
Some people want to set you up for fail,but fail to provide positive criticism or solutions..
But its not a lie that the summoner would need a kind of new mechanic to make it unique.

thank god for someone who understands the point of my thread.

Oglaf did you see the way Tipsy posted? providing criticism, but also giving constructive ideas on how to improve the profession.

that is the correct way to respond to suggestions

I asked you, repeatedly, to come up with something new. You are the one who kept defending your Phantasm knockoff over and over. It is not my fault that you were too caught up with sticking your fingers in your ears to come up with anything else.

So I ask you, once more, to improve your suggestion. Come on. Dazzle me. Blow me away, as it were. Or do you want me to do it all for you?

Oglaf, not calling you a troll but you should just stop posting here if its just creating an unnecessary arguement. Sam, just move on and don’t fuel the flame thats started, moderators will shut down posts if they stray off topic and just have multiple posts going back and forth at one another instead of being productive. Technically you don’t have rights to stop anyone from posting but said person should also acknowledge when things are no longer constructive and just move to other thread/sub-forums.

For the summoner, I would keep accepting feedback but if you are serious about going through with this I would get more thoughts and info to add to the op. It would help people get a clearer idea of what your spirits/ghosts/summons are behaving like and maybe take a paragraph or 2 to explain how they are different from the pre-existing summons many prof have access to.

Tipsy.5802:

A summoner could be a very interesting profession that would let other players think twice about where to place their aoe’s.
As their summon circles could be activated when an enemy skill fuels the energy to create a gate when the initial field gets hit;it could turn into next stage gate
(some require enemy skill,others the skill of ally)
A summoner could easily overwhelm those that use skills and aoe without thinking.

That could be interesting. So the summoner has spirits that it can call that are short lived or can provide lasting benefits? Like it you go for a short term summoning, you pick the location, cast then another skill takes its place on the bar and pressing it creates the short effect (attack, buff or whatever). But if you go for the long, you pick the location, cast and then it can provide effects (depending which spirit it is) when an enemy or ally casts in that area?

I’m just brainstorming. Like, maybe a defensive spirit will daze and confuse anyone in the area who attempts to cast condition skills within it’s radius (short term) or any conditions cast on allies take no effect within its radius (long term, 5 allies max).

Well I’ll have to reread the OP and rethink the idea but yeah…

I like the overal idea!
But personaly i think its to much of a combination between Shylvari/mesmer/necromancer, so most things are already there.

I like the idea, but it does feel a little “mesmerish” to me.

How about, instead of living physical things that manifest and last for a short while, you have each attack draw from a different being, that only comes into existence for the skill animation? For more powerful, tier 3 utilities and an elite, you get a permanent pet with numerous abilities, or a form elite that replaces you in combat with the summoned creature (ala FFX or similar instances..)

Wand would be ranged attacks similar to necro axe, applying a number of conditions and utility with more raw damage. Maybe an actual charged skill with greater effect the longer you prepare it (and the stronger, perhaps more opaque the summon results)

Focus would compliment with tougher defensive abilities, like a reflect projectiles ability and a ground targeted buff/debuff.

Dagger for this I see as a melee option, but with less of a focus on damage and more condition stacking. Mostly AoE and dodge mechanics.

Other weapons, not sure what I’d see here.

Utilities could include Summons (which produce a short lived offensive ally that floats around a fixed position near you at all times, does damage and each provides a different boon or condition); Bundles (like signets, but while holding them you gain passive benefits and replace your skill bar, or perhaps just your off hand skill bar, and would spread passive boons if traited properly. When dropped they produce a larger effect. (lots of damage, lots of protection, lots of conditions, etc.)) I think they would also have a channeling type of utility along with something else new, perhaps something more environmental (skill behavior changes depending on location?)

Elites could be much stronger versions of these; a highly powerful bundle, an awesome signet, a devastating short-term summon replacement (summon an ancient warrior or a small dragon, things like that)

With this in mind, it feels like it would play similarly to either a minionmancer, or a spiritmancer guardian, but would instead focus on building up to spike or anti-spike like a mesmer instead of pressure and condition focus. Sounds interesting to me. (also reminds me a lot of ritualist, but different)

The profession mechanic is a tricky one, but maybe something like F1, F2, and F3, and each triggers a short burst of a summon type. Something damaging, something protective, and something field control.

Every profession needs it’s “thing” tho. It’s unique catch that all other classes do not share. Thieves can steal. Engineers carry kits and have unique skills per other skill equipped. Eles swap attunements, and so on. The summoner would need something very unique as a class mechanic. Looking at what we already have, and the flavor of the class so far, I think it should be more environmental. Skills, or at least profession mechanic skills, change depending on your location. The damage skill would do burning if you’re near lava, or provide poison while in a swamp, and so on.

Thoughts?

IMO the ritualist should simply return, it’s my 2nd favorite profession in GW1 and it would perfectly fit GW2.
some say the mesmer is the new rit which is as inaccurate as a rifle with a 97 degree barrel, others say the engineer is the GW2 rit but the whole purpose the rit had in GW1 can’t be found anywhere in the engineer.

your suggestion could be the basic ground to revive the ritualist in GW2.

sorudo.9054:

IMO the ritualist should simply return, it’s my 2nd favorite profession in GW1 and it would perfectly fit GW2.
some say the mesmer is the new rit which is as inaccurate as a rifle with a 97 degree barrel, others say the engineer is the GW2 rit but the whole purpose the rit had in GW1 can’t be found anywhere in the engineer.

your suggestion could be the basic ground to revive the ritualist in GW2.

I think you should opt for the Spiritualist, a concept by Redrex. It’s been put together very good and discussed properly.

right now i am taking everything from this thread and trying to condonse it into a nicer looking format.

let’s try to keep the dicussion going until i repost the info though. nothing like fresh ideas to keep the creative juices going

Your entire idea is a Ritualist. Really. This already existed in Guild Wars 1, and if you want it, you should just ask for the Ritualist to make a comeback.

I could see the summoner being a new class since it would have been a class in GW1 with the new campain with the chronomancer but insteadthey opted to make an expansion instead. Its too bad cause it would have been cool to have an Aztec themed campaign in GW1.

Your Idea might work but it would be best for the summons to be different depending on the race of the character like robots for Asura, plant monsters for Sylvari, beasts for Norn, enchanted armor for humans and maybe titans for the Charr.

well all input on this thread is being taken into consideration for the grand scheme of things :P

There are already 4 summoner professions in the game depending on specc.
- mesmer
- necro
- engineer
- guardian

Furthermore Ranger always has a pet out and ele has specific skills that summon elementals. I don’t think another “summoner” profession is warranted.

the difference between mesmer, necro, engineer, guardian, and elemental is that the summoners creatures will be more unique, and more than simply back up or a meatshield

Sam Magicman.1395:

the difference between mesmer, necro, engineer, guardian, and elemental is that the summoners creatures will be more unique, and more than simply back up or a meatshield

I can’t see how they can be more unique than spirit weapons or offensive clones. Currently you’re not convincing anyone to add yet another pet profession to the game.

Five lines. Explain in a tl’;dr why another summoner would be a good thing for the game.

well right now i am taking everything from this thread and will recreate this thread so it’s more organized and it will be easier to see how it will be unique.

simply trying to explain it here would only add to the confusion

i would like to bump this

this thread has been bumped so i can continue working on my idea

marnick.4305:

There are already 4 summoner professions in the game depending on specc.
- mesmer
- necro
- engineer
- guardian

Furthermore Ranger always has a pet out and ele has specific skills that summon elementals. I don’t think another “summoner” profession is warranted.

You forgot to mention thief has Elite thief support & another thief in utilities.

let’s bump this again

bump it once more

No one is rushing you to creat this new thread sam, take your time and take what you can from this thread without rebumping it. Moderator’s look for things like this and shut down posts if it isn’t getting constructive replies. Aside from the summoning part, although huge for the profession as a mechanic, you should talk a little bit about any resources (if any, like warrior has adrenaline, thief has initiative, necro has life force, etc) included, talk about what role they play best (supposed to be able to play all roles but right now that is a flat out lie, we are still secluded to a tight few selections) such as support, dps, “tank”, etc. Until the summoning idea is put into full swing talk about some of the other things. They may be little but they also add up and can set the mood for what kind of utility they have to offer.

What different gameplay does this offer?
In short, I don’t think any.

You keep saying that it’s different from a necromancer but the autoattack you described for scepter seems like having the autoattack from necro axe and saying a spirit did it because he had a bad day in the mists.

You can’t just paste lore on existing mechanics and call it a new class, no matter how long you’ve been thinking about it.

What it sounds like: “here’s this profession, it uses heavy armor and a greatsword and has a skill which allows him to unleash a flurry of attacks while remaining still. He’s different from a warrior because he’s blue.”

@Mbh

This thread is clearly stated as a work in progress. Right now i am trying to think of new mechanics for this class, to make it more unique, but while also meeting the standard class set up of having a small amount of each thing.

and everyone knows that many good pieces of game content are big parts of the game lore. SImply because i haven’t nailed down a decent way of doing this yet, doesn’t mean it is impossible.

right now i am taking every bit of info off this thread and working on information with it. There have been a lot of decent ideas and it makes it that much more interesting.

EDIT

I’ve been thinking about this for a while… what if.. I made this profession a nonpet profession?

summoning is still very much possible without a “pet” type skil (calling something that stays with you until death or runs out of time)

Take a look at the old Final Fantasy Games.

the way their summons work was they come in, attack, then disappate immediately, no lingering around to defend or attack again.

this is prevalent in games like Final Fantasy 3, 4, and 5. in which you can summon them as many times as needed, but they don’t stick around.

the concept is simple, but making it happen, is hard. However i have lots of time to work on it

Unfortunately making summons a one-time attack is not a mechanic, it’s just a skill aesthetic. Much like the rangers’ greatsword abilities (the bear and hawk).

Summoning is, at it’s core, a pet profession. Although every single profession has summons, only the Mesmer relies totally on summons for its mechanic.

Technically speaking, ranger pets are not summons, since they aren’t skill-summoned.

However, to make a summons mechanic you need to define the resource and gameplay aspects of the profession.

Eg) Mesmer
Resource: clones/phantasms
Mechanic: shatters
Etc.

In my Spiritualist concept profession, I actually began with a summons profession and ended up with a non-summons profession, simply because the mechanic was flawed and was too muddled. It is important to focus on your ‘feel’ of the profession, but never at the loss of a solid, capable mechanic.

It’s good to hear that you are currently working on a mechanic, and don’t be afraid to add several potential gameplay styles and tease out the one that suits the profession best.

Best of luck! I’ll be checking back to see how it goes

If you need some inspiration, feel free to browse any of my 4 concept professions here on the forums.