Guild Wars 2

This post is being built off of various opinions and facts gathered over the last few months with Guild Wars 2 from myself and other guild leaders. This post is going to be a long one so brace yourself and please only comment if you read the entire post.

I’ve been a guild leader for almost 10 years now across many games including WoW and Guild Wars 1 (among a vast number of other games across multiple genres) and never in my entire life have I seen something so destructive to guilds than the multi-guild system.

In all of my years leading a guild, I’ve never once had someone NOT know who I was within a guild. In messaging players in my guild with various requests or invites, I often get the “Who the heck is this?” whisper. What? NEVER have I seen this!! It’s not just me either, tons of my guild leader buddies and random guild leaders (and players) I’ve asked agree that the multi-guild feature is nothing short of destructive.

Because of the feature in place, there is no incentive for members to actually stay loyal to any one given guild. It also brings on the mentality of “Why should I care? If anything bad happens I have x number of other guilds to represent at any given time!”

I get the functionality. I do. It’s so that people with more than 1 group of friends (or what have you) and people who want to use guilds as banks. That’s not the problem, I get that. The problem is the fact that there are no features within the multi guild system that dissuade guild hopping or guild bailing at any time.

Another example.

I made a simple request for a member to represent us, as it is a requirement to be in the guild which everyone agrees to before joining. I get a whisper back with “Listen I don’t know who the ____ this is, but I’ve been asked this question every day for a ____ing week, enough already. kitten ”

Me: “Excuse me? I’m sorry if I messaged you previously about this, it’s just that there’s no way for me to tell who I already talked about without a note feature and I just go down the list and send the same message to anybody not representing. It’s a guild rule you know, as well as respect and I don’t think it’s wise to talk to your guild leader that way – or any player for that matter.”

“LOL Like I give a ____! I’m in plenty of other guilds, go ahead and kick me, see if I give a s___! Hahahahahaahahahah”

It’s as if nobody cares about guilds. They are just things that come and go and don’t have any value (especially since nearly every guild now has max upgrades unlocked) and can just be replaced in seconds.

If this feature must remain in the game, there need to be systems in place to make it worth your while to remain in a guild and stop guild hopping and lack of importance on guilds. I realize there is a patch on the way, but if this multi-guild system remains in the game, the rest of what is in that patch won’t matter for most guilds down the road.

Guilds right now are some of the most impersonal social aspects of this game. And really, aside from chat and the perks that come with it, guilds are seemingly not even an important aspect of the game.

Me and other guild leaders I know cringed when we heard this was going to be put into the game. I can’t believe it actually made it in. Guilds have NEVER been about this – it’s always been about finding a group of people you enjoy playing with and interacting and participating in events with that group.

I’ve had hours worth of conversation with other players and guild leaders about the current state of guilds and guild importance in this game and all I’ve spoken to agree that they are essentially useless and there’s no real incentive to be in a guild for more than the perks.

The only guilds I’ve heard of guild chat being existent (in game or in a VOIP server) are the guilds with 400+ members with at least 60% activity. Anything short of that and you have players either not representing you or not paying attention at all.

I feel this rant has gone on long enough and I’m sure since it’s just past 4am I’ve left out important things I wanted to touch on and maybe even jumbled up points that I made and obscured them.

In any case I’d love to hear what everyone on the forums thinks of the multi-guild system and whether or not you think it’s harmful to guild longevity or functionality. And please keep in mind this is not a thread about the crazy lack of guild features, functions, and capabilities. They said we’ll be getting a patch for that soon. This thread is specifically about the horrendous atmosphere of guilds because of the multi-guild system and the attitude it imposes on the players.

Thanks.

I was against the multi-guild feature since they announced it. Even though I’m not a guild leader, I am someone who enjoys chatting, and an active guildchat is very important for me. But now you have guilds of 100-400 people, 10-30 are online, only 5 are representing, and those 5 are too busy elsewhere to chat. I have yet to find a guild with which I can indulge my chat-cravings.

Guilds are way too diminished this way. And I don’t understand Anets reasons for implementing it either.

Meanwhile, my search for The Perfect Guild continues.

Tosha, thank you for your input. As a player who just wants something simple out of guilds, I appreciate your opinion and sympathize with your situation. I cannot agree enough with your statements below.

“…But now you have guilds of 100-400 people, 10-30 are online, only 5 are representing, and those 5 are too busy elsewhere to chat.”
“…Guilds are way too diminished this way. And I don’t understand Anets reasons for implementing it either…”

I’m part of a great, massive Oceanic guild on Sea of Sorrows and i believe the feature to actually be quite useful. The guild is that big now that it actually spans across 3 guild groups and over 900 members. Its great for the leader to be able to switch between all of them and organize meets, events and check up on everyone. Its also great for the top ranking members of the guild who also help lead as well.

I get where you’re coming from completely though. But not everyone is like the guy in your example I, for instance, am apart of 3 guilds. 1 for my real life buddies, another for the forum community im apart of and the main in game guild i represent.

I almost always rep my main guild although its great to be able to pop in and see whats up with some mates or see whats going down within my community.

Like most things its a 2 sided coin, and with all due respect its not breaking the game like some other things. It’s not going to be a priority and i dare say that it will never be taken out. A guild will always be your selection of a group of loyal, fair, friendly players that everyone gets along with and there will always be the odd handful who leave and disrespect anyone because its the internet and they can.

Dicellol.4153:

I’m part of a great, massive Oceanic guild on Sea of Sorrows and i believe the feature to actually be quite useful. The guild is that big now that it actually spans across 3 guild groups and over 900 members. Its great for the leader to be able to switch between all of them and organize meets, events and check up on everyone. Its also great for the top ranking members of the guild who also help lead as well.

I get where you’re coming from completely though. But not everyone is like the guy in your example I, for instance, am apart of 3 guilds. 1 for my real life buddies, another for the forum community im apart of and the main in game guild i represent.

I almost always rep my main guild although its great to be able to pop in and see whats up with some mates or see whats going down within my community.

Like most things its a 2 sided coin, and with all due respect its not breaking the game like some other things. It’s not going to be a priority and i dare say that it will never be taken out. A guild will always be your selection of a group of loyal, fair, friendly players that everyone gets along with and there will always be the odd handful who leave and disrespect anyone because its the internet and they can.

Thank you for your reply. I agree, when used correctly the features make sense – as I pointed out in my post. The fact of the matter is that nearly everyone I’ve come into contact with is the exact opposite of you.

You’d think it’d be main guild, friend guild, and community (forum?) guild with the main being represented unless chatting is going on or groups are forming. And I do understand that the big zergy guilds need places to fill their other 400 members that don’t fit into the original roster.

This does, however, go beyond “it’s the internet and they’ll do that because they can.” I realize it probably will not be removed as it’s essentially a key feature to a useless game mechanic but the point remains that it’s more than just “they can because it’s the internet”.

They can, and it’s basically encouraged to do so. I’ve been doing this a long time and not once have I seen a game with guilds so meaningless and so impersonal it makes me sick to my stomach. To see people just kitten all over the concept of a guild because there are dozens of others they can just switch to on the drop of a dime, is really appauling.

If there was something in place to encourage being a member of ONE guild, that’d be enough for me. It’d be enough for everybody I know of who has expressed an issue with the idea as a whole. But as it currently stands, there is no reason to, with lack of a better phrase at 4:35am, give a kitten.

Its not the mechanics or the function that is at fault. Its the human element.
When Guild Leaders are obsessed with recruiting every stranger they meet just to get numbers, you can expect very little coherency.

A good guild takes time to develope

Xericor.9103:

Its not the mechanics or the function that is at fault. Its the human element.
When Guild Leaders are obsessed with recruiting every stranger they meet just to get numbers, you can expect very little coherency.

A good guild takes time to develope

I’ve seen plenty a good guild destroyed by the fact that nobody seems to care in this game. You’d think in a guild seemingly revolving around guilds and cooperation, they would place more of an emphasis on actually being part of a guild and participating with that guild and doing events and the like with them.

Please don’t sit there and say good guilds require time to develope. I’ve been doing this almost 10 years now and not once have I seen such a stagnant and uninspired guild system that just encourages flakiness and the “abandon ship” mentality.

When you can message someone in your guild and have someone ask who you are, as the guild leader who is on every day, there is a problem. I’ve seen even other guild leaders abandon their guilds and join others (even mine in some cases) because they were too frustrated with how guilds are treated and perceived in this game.

I’m not sure if you’ve ever led a guild before, but give it a shot for a couple years in a game where guilds are held in high regards and actually mean something, then come try doing it in GW2 and see how upset it makes you.

I see nothing wrong with it personally . If nothing is going on in one see if something is going on in another . Also keep in mind some people may use it to have a PvP guild a PvE guild and an RP guild or something to that effect . Face it in a multi-guild system forced representation just doesn’t work .

I partially agree with the OP, my point of view is as guild member, not leader here. What I do not like about the current system is that you only hear chat of the guild you are representing. If you could chose which ones to hear, possibly all, I’d be much happier and it would promote actually being active in more than one guild at a time.

It would also allow more easily to decide which guild should receive your earned influence. Currently I am in two guilds, a small and a big one. The big guild has well over half a million influence amassed, they can’t even spend it as fast as it comes in. The small guild could actually make use of what I earn, but due to activity I want to hear the big guild’s chat, so I have to represent them.

I used to be in a guild in WoW and also in a raid group which had its own chat channel, allowing me to interact with both at any time. That worked perfectly imo, and I am missing such a feature here.

Another feature I am missing is to be able to look guilds up via a “/who” feature. When trying to find out how active a guild is you are interested in, your only option is pretty much to join and see what happens. Leads to much more guild hopping in the end.

Bezayne.6459:

I partially agree with the OP, my point of view is as guild member, not leader here. What I do not like about the current system is that you only hear chat of the guild you are representing. If you could chose which ones to hear, possibly all, I’d be much happier and it would promote actually being active in more than one guild at a time.

It would also allow more easily to decide which guild should receive your earned influence. Currently I am in two guilds, a small and a big one. The big guild has well over half a million influence amassed, they can’t even spend it as fast as it comes in. The small guild could actually make use of what I earn, but due to activity I want to hear the big guild’s chat, so I have to represent them.

I used to be in a guild in WoW and also in a raid group which had its own chat channel, allowing me to interact with both at any time. That worked perfectly imo, and I am missing such a feature here.

Another feature I am missing is to be able to look guilds up via a “/who” feature. When trying to find out how active a guild is you are interested in, your only option is pretty much to join and see what happens. Leads to much more guild hopping in the end.

Thank you for your post and I agree with you. The problem with a /who feature or something similar is the fact that in a medium to small sized guild that values quality members over a ton of them, they generally don’t have all that many on at once.

Couple that with the fact that now most of those members aren’t even representing (IE Not even showing up as being in that guild). Which guild would you join? The one with 400 people online or the one with 4?

That’s a problem..

I am all for the chat option too and I’m surprised it wasn’t introduced in that way. But as it stands, it is a feature that is literally destroying guilds that have had good histories up until GW2 – the game which should have been that guild’s future for years to come, only to destroy it because of what it does to player attitudes influenced by the current system.

Yeah i understand your points clear as day and i can see why you are so frustrated.

I know its 4.40am where you are now :p but i fail to see what you mean by “its more than just they can cause its the internet”. I believe thats it done and dusted. They are (probably mainly) casual kids who have no respect for the community people are trying to build within the game to make it a great place for most, no respect for people taking their time to do so, and no loyalty or respect to the group they play with. They don’t follow the guild rules and get spoken to? “Oh its ok it’s a game on the internet, eff this guy, i can say what i want to him and get away with it”.
Thats the way i see that problem anyway. You have those guys everywhere though, in every team/group orientated game.

But, for everyone of those guys im sure you have 10 more loyal, respectful, friendly guildies with you who love to play under your name cause you do sound like a guy who cares about his guild.

BUT, i also agree that there is no incentive for someone to commit. Unless of course they are high ranked or favourable within the guild. Ahh but maybe there is. People to play with, a group to chat with etc. But then it flies back to “oh i can do that with any group”.

As leader of a guild myself (well, we have a collegial lead of elders, but I’m the one holding the guild), I think that multi-guild system is a big mistake and should never have been added to any MMORPG. Our guild has a rule in the charter against multi-guilding.
I don’t know how someone at ANet can have had such an utterly stupid idea.

Korrigan.4837:

As leader of a guild myself (well, we have a collegial lead of elders, but I’m the one holding the guild), I think that multi-guild system is a big mistake and should never have been added to any MMORPG. Our guild has a rule in the charter against multi-guilding.
I don’t know how someone at ANet can have had such an utterly stupid idea.

I agree. It’s also in our rules (which seems like most respectable guilds worth their salt enforce) for each member to represent only that guild. Now when guild members agree to that, join, then later get invited to a larger guild, what do you think they do?

They join and represent the larger one without thinking twice. It’s horribly destructive and I’ve seen more than a small number of good guilds fall victim to this. It creates a horrible mentality and attitude in the members of said guild and ultimately people will flock elsewhere for whatever reasons and not even think twice, care, or let anybody know.

Most don’t even Gquit they just stop representing indefinitely as if that guild is potentially a safety net if the guild they’re currently representing has an issue and they need to again re-represent elsewhere.

I find that most people don’t represent simply because I think they forget. I think it’s sort of baked into our nature at this point…guild affiliation is something you set and forget. Most people probably have the best of intentions to switch back and forth, but they don’t end up doing it except on very rare occasions. I have found that very few people in my guild ever stay on top of things to the point of splitting their time between guilds or switching for certain play.

It’s mostly an all-or-nothing proposition. They either represent or they don’t. Whatever other guild they are a part of ends up getting their time because it facilitates communication in WvW or whatever reason, and they never switch back. Same thing with switching servers…I’ve got several good folks in the guild that switched servers and stopped representing at one point, and just never came back.

Maybe the feature works well for mega guilds, but for the vast majority of guilds, I agree with the original poster. The feature sounded cool to me on paper, but after having dealt with it since launch, I’m finding it really diminishes my guild. What sort of impression does it give to a new member when they join up and see 10 people online, 6 of which are not representing? It says okay, this guild is not worth my time.

I think I’m going to have to start implementing a “must represent” rule. It’s a shame, because I can see the flexibility being nice for people…but I need folks to commit to being in a guild and helping it succeed, not just flipping a switch and forgetting it. I think there really does need to be a bit of weight or consequence attached to choosing a guild…it needs to matter to people. Otherwise it’s very hard to be anything more than an occasional chat facilitator.

Mkalafut.1273:

Korrigan.4837:

As leader of a guild myself (well, we have a collegial lead of elders, but I’m the one holding the guild), I think that multi-guild system is a big mistake and should never have been added to any MMORPG. Our guild has a rule in the charter against multi-guilding.
I don’t know how someone at ANet can have had such an utterly stupid idea.

I agree. It’s also in our rules (which seems like most respectable guilds worth their salt enforce) for each member to represent only that guild. Now when guild members agree to that, join, then later get invited to a larger guild, what do you think they do?

They join and represent the larger one without thinking twice. It’s horribly destructive and I’ve seen more than a small number of good guilds fall victim to this. It creates a horrible mentality and attitude in the members of said guild and ultimately people will flock elsewhere for whatever reasons and not even think twice, care, or let anybody know.

Most don’t even Gquit they just stop representing indefinitely as if that guild is potentially a safety net if the guild they’re currently representing has an issue and they need to again re-represent elsewhere.

Well, to be honest, in other games, people will just /gquit and join the bigger guild.

People are not forced to care about you or your guild. They probably got in because you either invited them right away without even asking or advertised and they were curious. They checked yours then tried other guilds to find a suiting one for themselves.
Chance are that if they don’t represent your guild, it’s because they are in a better one already.

Fozzik.1742:

I find that most people don’t represent simply because I think they forget. I think it’s sort of baked into our nature at this point…guild affiliation is something you set and forget. Most people probably have the best of intentions to switch back and forth, but they don’t end up doing it except on very rare occasions. I have found that very few people in my guild ever stay on top of things to the point of splitting their time between guilds or switching for certain play.

It’s mostly an all-or-nothing proposition. They either represent or they don’t. Whatever other guild they are a part of ends up getting their time because it facilitates communication in WvW or whatever reason, and they never switch back. Same thing with switching servers…I’ve got several good folks in the guild that switched servers and stopped representing at one point, and just never came back.

Maybe the feature works well for mega guilds, but for the vast majority of guilds, I agree with the original poster. The feature sounded cool to me on paper, but after having dealt with it since launch, I’m finding it really diminishes my guild. What sort of impression does it give to a new member when they join up and see 10 people online, 6 of which are not representing? It says okay, this guild is not worth spending time on.

I think I’m going to have to start implementing a “must represent” rule. It’s a shame, because I can see the flexibility being nice for people…but I need folks to commit to being in a guild and helping it succeed, not just flipping a switch and forgetting it.

I couldn’t agree more with the start of your post. Most people forget. Here’s the thing though. When being politely reminded of it, I often get “Who the hell is this?” or something similar. As a GUILD LEADER. I have people who don’t even care enough to know who the leader of the guild is.

Granted there are always at least a few of us in vent, but for the most part it seems that people nowadays have either gone to WoW or zerg around from guild to guild to get what they can out of them and then flock to a new one.

Haishao.6851:

People are not forced to care about you or your guild. They probably got in because you either invited them right away without even asking or advertised and they were curious. They checked yours then tried other guilds to find a suiting one for themselves.
Chance are that if they don’t represent your guild, it’s because they are in a better one already.

I’m sorry, I figured the part where I mentioned I’ve been doing this for almost 10 years would have given the impression that I knew what I was doing and am still doing it successfully up to this point.

It’s an issue, regardless of current success or lack-there-of. I don’t zerg invite, none of my officers do either. We have conversations with members WHO WHISPER US about getting invites to our guild. Only to find that days later they just stop representing.

Please if you’re going to comment, read the posts people make before hand.

Dicellol.4153:

Yeah i understand your points clear as day and i can see why you are so frustrated.

I know its 4.40am where you are now :p but i fail to see what you mean by “its more than just they can cause its the internet”. I believe thats it done and dusted. They are (probably mainly) casual kids who have no respect for the community people are trying to build within the game to make it a great place for most, no respect for people taking their time to do so, and no loyalty or respect to the group they play with. They don’t follow the guild rules and get spoken to? “Oh its ok it’s a game on the internet, eff this guy, i can say what i want to him and get away with it”.
Thats the way i see that problem anyway. You have those guys everywhere though, in every team/group orientated game.

But, for everyone of those guys im sure you have 10 more loyal, respectful, friendly guildies with you who love to play under your name cause you do sound like a guy who cares about his guild.

BUT, i also agree that there is no incentive for someone to commit. Unless of course they are high ranked or favourable within the guild. Ahh but maybe there is. People to play with, a group to chat with etc. But then it flies back to “oh i can do that with any group”.

Thank you for your reply, and compliments. This guild has been my life blood and I’ve actually met some of the best friends of my life in it. That being said I completely agree with you, and for my guild, it’s more of an inconvenience and annoyance. But to other guilds, it’s actually enough to end a guild of people who have been playing together for years.

The internet has people with bad enough attitudes as it is before you throw in a reason to not care. If this system was used correctly I’m sure it’d be a great addition to the game, but as it’s currently set up, it’s nothing less than destructive and harmful to the life of smaller, tighter knit guilds or even newer ones.

Korrigan.4837:

Mkalafut.1273:

Korrigan.4837:

As leader of a guild myself (well, we have a collegial lead of elders, but I’m the one holding the guild), I think that multi-guild system is a big mistake and should never have been added to any MMORPG. Our guild has a rule in the charter against multi-guilding.
I don’t know how someone at ANet can have had such an utterly stupid idea.

I agree. It’s also in our rules (which seems like most respectable guilds worth their salt enforce) for each member to represent only that guild. Now when guild members agree to that, join, then later get invited to a larger guild, what do you think they do?

They join and represent the larger one without thinking twice. It’s horribly destructive and I’ve seen more than a small number of good guilds fall victim to this. It creates a horrible mentality and attitude in the members of said guild and ultimately people will flock elsewhere for whatever reasons and not even think twice, care, or let anybody know.

Most don’t even Gquit they just stop representing indefinitely as if that guild is potentially a safety net if the guild they’re currently representing has an issue and they need to again re-represent elsewhere.

Well, to be honest, in other games, people will just /gquit and join the bigger guild.

I’d rather have people up and leave than just sit in my guild using it as a fallback method in case their 500 member guild needs to kick someone for a better player or IRL friend of a leader.

My guild has never and will never be a fallback guild, and it upsets me greatly to see such a blatant disregard for community encouragement and guild development that this game currently has.

Oh agree – that multi guild system is a mistake – just saying that the people who guild hop are not very nice guildies in ANY game, not just GW2. Well, at least in GW2 we don’t have loot drama

TheVirtualFrog.8714:

When I first heard about the multi-guild system I thought that it’s a wonderful idea. Join various groups and band together with each one of them for different kinds of game content or goals. Delightful! After a month or so I started to become fed up with it.

Guilds lose their meaning when the chat is always empty and there’s no common activity because everyone is out there representing eight other guilds while being active in a ninth one. At least for the moment. Next week they are latching onto another bandwagon or join three more groups, completely forgetting about the previous ones. It only accomodates the notorious guild hoppers and those who like stirring up trouble then vanishing without a trace.

For anyone struggling with this issue I advise looking for a guild with a fair entry requirement and strong emphasis on guild commitment. If they have a dedicated guild page or forum and have been active for more than a month or two, it’s usually a good sign to give it a go. That or make a guild with such rules. Looking for people within your own country or gaming time and banding together can also be benefical so you don’t face the inevitable problem of different time-zones with four people being online while the other twenty-one are working or asleep.

I felt lonesome (in guilds with 400+ members!) and bored as well before I found a small but active community. I don’t think we have more than 15 members online at any given time but all 15 of those are active both in the game, on the chat and we even have our own TS3 room. We aren’t earning influence and riches like the mammoth guilds and their 500 members out there but there’s always someone to run dungeons and WvW or do events with.

VirtualFrog, thank you for your reply! I’m glad you were able to find a good guild that you were looking for. We also have those requirements and an organized website with information about our guild plastered all over the thing so people know what to expect from us and from them before entry.

Unfortunately, people can say whatever they want and then go do something else 5 minutes later. And I’m glad to see that you pointed out the huge issue with it all – the representation and people forgetting they’re even in certain guilds. They do, literally become meaningless.

Korrigan.4837:

Oh agree – that multi guild system is a mistake – just saying that the people who guild hop are not very nice guildies in ANY game, not just GW2. Well, at least in GW2 we don’t have loot drama

I agree, and sorry if I’m not replying to every single post there have been quite a few in the last few minutes (thanks guys, I appreciate the feedback and discussion!)

People who guild hop are always going to be present. But the fact of the matter is that this game is basically encouraging it. Or at the very least, making it to where you shouldn’t care about doing it.

I don’t care for guild hoppers, and luckily for me, the requirements for getting into my guild are on their own good enough at steering away that type (usually). But the second that they get an invite from a zerg guild who invites EVERYONE without even so much as a greeting will get that member because they have 500,000 influence and every upgrade with 320 members online.

Granted those members might not even be representing the guild, but the guild shows that there are 320/500 members online, and your other one you are in has 20/120 then… well.. you can pretty easily figure where the average person will go.

My first MMO was Final Fantasy XI, which has a Multi-Guild-System, so I’m pretty much used to it.
In that game, basically every Endgame-Guild had the rule, that you had to be a member of that one guild alone.
That rule actually worked. It was a little bit different for social guilds where some Guild-Members just jumped between the guilds only to ask for help/money. But even some of those guilds had the “One guild only” rule. Members of social guilds usually had different Guilds for endgame activities, with the social Guild as their main guild.

It did work for the community of Final Fantasy XI (black sheeps are in every game though) and for me it also works for Guild Wars 2. That said, I’m a member in one guild, as I don’t need another, the people are friendly and talkactive (though we’re only a small guild). But if there’ll be ever any guilds for any endgame-activities I’d love to do but can’t do with my current guild, I’ll be more than happy to have the Multi-Guild-System. That way, I can do the desired content without leaving my main-guild.

I really can’t understand how a person could “forget” who the leader of one of his guilds is unless he never cared about that guild from the beginning.

We have a reasonable large guild, with about 150 members… Not once we had something like you mentioned happening to us and we are not against multi-guilding. Our only request is that when someone is doing something with us, that they keep our guild represented.

But we don’t spam chat channels for new members or things like that. We never worried about numbers. We had a set rule of only accepting people who knew someone from our initial core of players at the beginning or friends of friends of that same core after.

I believe the tool is good, and you can’t blame it for the people who misuse it.

Mkalafut.1273:

The problem with a /who feature or something similar is the fact that in a medium to small sized guild that values quality members over a ton of them, they generally don’t have all that many on at once.

That’s not necessarily a problem. I was looking for a more active guild recently and I found myself wishing for /who repeatedly since there’s no way to tell how active a guild is or how many are normally online at once. I, and a lot of people I know, don’t want a massive guild with 700 online at all times. I experienced that in the form of my GW1 alliance and I hated it.

I want a guild like my WoW raid guild. 30-40 people who are online regularly and an active guild chat where you actually know each other. Those massive guilds are like map chat imo and I don’t like them at all. I’m not the only one.

Mkalafut.1273:

the guild shows that there are 320/500 members online, and your other one you are in has 20/120 then… well.. you can pretty easily figure where the average person will go.

So, you still say its a problem with the mechanic and not with the player?
Tell me the difference between a tradtional method, of accept and /gquit to join another,

And to answer your previous, yes I have been a guild leader (swtorguild.co.uk), same user name, at one point we had 250 members, which we whittled down to 60 actives. We then took those 60 activies and cut it down again to around 25 genuine active, social members.

Those 25 made the guild, those 225 we lost along the way did not. Players make a guild not mechanics

Afternoon.8236:

My first MMO was Final Fantasy XI, which has a Multi-Guild-System, so I’m pretty much used to it.
In that game, basically every Endgame-Guild had the rule, that you had to be a member of that one guild alone.
That rule actually worked. It was a little bit different for social guilds where some Guild-Members just jumped between the guilds only to ask for help/money. But even some of those guilds had the “One guild only” rule. Members of social guilds usually had different Guilds for endgame activities, with the social Guild as their main guild.

It did work for the community of Final Fantasy XI (black sheeps are in every game though) and for me it also works for Guild Wars 2. That said, I’m a member in one guild, as I don’t need another, the people are friendly and talkactive (though we’re only a small guild). But if there’ll be ever any guilds for any endgame-activities I’d love to do but can’t do with my current guild, I’ll be more than happy to have the Multi-Guild-System. That way, I can do the desired content without leaving my main-guild.

Thank you for your reply. I didn’t know that’s how that game worked as that’s one MMO I’ve never touched over the years. You are an example of an ideal guild member and your guild is lucky to have you. I just wish more people valued a guild like you do and actually didn’t think of it as just another name in a list when they hit G.

Kana.6793

I want a guild like my WoW raid guild. 30-40 people who are online regularly and an active guild chat where you actually know each other. Those massive guilds are like map chat imo and I don’t like them at all. I’m not the only one.

I want this too. My GW1 guild had “only” 20-30 members, but they were active members and guild chat was always a blast. Too bad they’ve all succumbed to RL.

It’s very, very difficult to find such a guild in GW2 though.

deriver.5381:

I really can’t understand how a person could “forget” who the leader of one of his guilds is unless he never cared about that guild from the beginning.

We have a reasonable large guild, with about 150 members… Not once we had something like you mentioned happening to us and we are not against multi-guilding. Our only request is that when someone is doing something with us, that they keep our guild represented.

But we don’t spam chat channels for new members or things like that. We never worried about numbers. We had a set rule of only accepting people who knew someone from our initial core of players at the beginning or friends of friends of that same core after.

I believe the tool is good, and you can’t blame it for the people who misuse it.

Thank you for your reply. It really was a wake up call for me that something was wrong when the guy sincerely had no idea who I was. I agree, and have said that if the tool was used properly it’d be an asset but as it stands it’s horribly destructive.

Again thank you for your reply, and I can’t stress enough how against this I am. Unfortunately there’s not much you can do except ask the people who aren’t representing why they aren’t and if they have any intention to ever do so again.

Korrigan.4837:

Well, to be honest, in other games, people will just /gquit and join the bigger guild.

Hey Korrigan! =)

You see, that is the kind of people that makes a tool like the multi-guild system, looks bad. Back in WoW, can’t remember when exactly, but I managed to join one of the biggest guilds of that game. I was happy for some time, but as soon as some RL friends decided to start playing and thought about starting a small guild just for us, I promptly left my former guild, thankful for the time I had there, taking my time to explain to everyone my reasons, and joined the tiny 8 man guild my friends created, to never leave it.

Commitment is not something you can relate to a game’s sytem. This system does not promote jerk behaviors. People are jerks because they can, and internet allows them.

Kana.6793:

Mkalafut.1273:

The problem with a /who feature or something similar is the fact that in a medium to small sized guild that values quality members over a ton of them, they generally don’t have all that many on at once.

That’s not necessarily a problem. I was looking for a more active guild recently and I found myself wishing for /who repeatedly since there’s no way to tell how active a guild is or how many are normally online at once. I, and a lot of people I know, don’t want a massive guild with 700 online at all times. I experienced that in the form of my GW1 alliance and I hated it.

I want a guild like my WoW raid guild. 30-40 people who are online regularly and an active guild chat where you actually know each other. Those massive guilds are like map chat imo and I don’t like them at all. I’m not the only one.

Thank you for your reply. As I’ve said to others I do hope you find what you’re looking for in a guild. Those guilds are out there but deteriorating fast from what I’ve seen and heard from other guild leaders. People simply don’t care anymore.

Xericor.9103:

Mkalafut.1273:

the guild shows that there are 320/500 members online, and your other one you are in has 20/120 then… well.. you can pretty easily figure where the average person will go.

So, you still say its a problem with the mechanic and not with the player?
Tell me the difference between a tradtional method, of accept and /gquit to join another,

And to answer your previous, yes I have been a guild leader (swtorguild.co.uk), same user name, at one point we had 250 members, which we whittled down to 60 actives. We then took those 60 activies and cut it down again to around 25 genuine active, social members.

Those 25 made the guild, those 225 we lost along the way did not. Players make a guild not mechanics

That post was not representative of what I personally think – but what the average player does (based on experience). Out of our 120 members I’d say nearly 30 of them are genuinely active, social, assets and members of our community. The rest are either inactive or pop on every now and then and don’t bring anything to the table.

Please don’t nit pick posts. That sentence you quoted was part of a larger paragraph explaining the context which seemed to have been left out of your reply.

deriver.5381:

Korrigan.4837:

Well, to be honest, in other games, people will just /gquit and join the bigger guild.

Hey Korrigan! =)

You see, that is the kind of people that makes a tool like the multi-guild system, looks bad. Back in WoW, can’t remember when exactly, but I managed to join one of the biggest guilds of that game. I was happy for some time, but as soon as some RL friends decided to start playing and thought about starting a small guild just for us, I promptly left my former guild, thankful for the time I had there, taking my time to explain to everyone my reasons, and joined the tiny 8 man guild my friends created, to never leave it.

Commitment is not something you can relate to a game’s sytem. This system does not promote jerk behaviors. People are jerks because they can, and internet allows them.

Thank you for your post. I couldn’t agree more.

I don’t see any point changing guilds daily.
Except you are a lone wolf and you just want the bonuses or something.

To my eyes guilds are a group of people that you stick together.Otherwise gt_o.Ryit?

Tosha Daydreamer.9251:

Kana.6793

I want a guild like my WoW raid guild. 30-40 people who are online regularly and an active guild chat where you actually know each other. Those massive guilds are like map chat imo and I don’t like them at all. I’m not the only one.

I want this too. My GW1 guild had “only” 20-30 members, but they were active members and guild chat was always a blast. Too bad they’ve all succumbed to RL.

It’s very, very difficult to find such a guild in GW2 though.

Though our roster is currently over 100, we are generally the same way. As soon as they implement “days since login” to the guild interface, we will be cutting our roster down tremendously. We have all of the upgrades already so it’s not like we need the influence, nor do we care about how many we have.

We know as well as our active, long time members know that we offer something most guilds do not, and frankly if people don’t see that it’s their loss. That’s just our situation though, and unfortunately it’s more dire for some people who had a good thing going for them until their guild hit Guild Wars 2.

How have you managed to fill your guild with people you do not know? If they don’t know you, it means that you don’t know them either.

I have had my share of running guilds in the last ~10 years and even when I’m not running one in this game, I can agree that the guild system is different here than in other more traditional MMOs. I’m not saying that it is worse, just different.

One main difference is that people have much more freedom to choose how they want to play and do they even want to be in a guild. It may sound a bit harsh but in traditional MMO guilds are pretty much forced on the player even if they do not want that. If you are not in a guild, you pretty much cannot play the game. It is much harder to switch guilds in that kind of system because there is a risk that you may lose your ability to play the game, so people tend to stick around even if they would not like to.

Here it is not like that. You can enjoy the whole content even without a guild at all. As I see it, the main reasons here to join and stay in a guild are the buffs and purely the social aspect.

If player is only after the buffs, he will be in a guild that offers the best. If the player wants the social aspect, it is pretty much guaranteed that they will continue to look until they find one they like. They are free to do so. There is zero risk to switch and try other guilds if they are not enjoying themselves in some.

Nice social atmoshpere is much harder to create than objective based system. Leaders might be able to make people achieve some objective, but they cannot make people enjoy each others company. It happens almost by accident, if at all, just like in real life.

In some ways the chances of it happening can be improved by carefully planning on what kind of people you are trying get together. Is it the age? Nationality? What is the common thing between your members. You simply cannot just invite everyone.

Ok, enough rambling. :P

Quickhit.3620:

I don’t see any point changing guilds daily.
Except you are a lone wolf and you just want the bonuses or something.

To my eyes guilds are a group of people that you stick together.Otherwise gt_o.Ryit?

If only every guild had more members like you, the situation wouldn’t be nearly as dire. Thank you for your input, Quickhit.

I can see where you are coming from if you have such a large guild, to be honest. In the other games I’ve played guilds were very very rarely as large as 200+. Most guilds I’ve seen had perhaps 50 members of which 30-40 were most active. I think a part of the problem occuring right now is people handing out invites far too easily. I personally run a guild of 7 right now, yes that’s very small. But we only invite people we really enjoy playing with PLUS we make sure everyone in the guild will enjoy playing with that person. My guild doesn’t have so much guild chat spam as big guilds but we all talk to eachother and we all play together, there is no guild hopping or anything destructive currently. I think it is generally an issue with guilds just trying to get ‘big’ and inviting strangers without knowing anything of them. I am personally strongly against advertising in map chat etc because you will essentially invite a person that may not fit in at all. This can work both ways, but if you instead decide to only invite people you encouner while questing, doing dungeons or pvp you will see they won’t have this behavior.

Ameepa.6793:

How have you managed to fill your guild with people you do not know? If they don’t know you, it means that you don’t know them either.

I have had my share of running guilds in the last ~10 years and even when I’m not running one in this game, I can agree that the guild system is different here than in other more traditional MMOs. I’m not saying that it is worse, just different.

One main difference is that people have much more freedom to choose how they want to play and do they even want to be in a guild. It may sound a bit harsh but in traditional MMO guilds are pretty much forced on the player even if they do not want that. If you are not in a guild, you pretty much cannot play the game. It is much harder to switch guilds in that kind of system because there is a risk that you may lose your ability to play the game, so people tend to stick around even if they would not like to.

Here it is not like that. You can enjoy the whole content even without a guild at all. As I see it, the main reasons here to join and stay in a guild are the buffs and purely the social aspect.

If player is only after the buffs, he will be in a guild that offers the best. If the player wants the social aspect, it is pretty much guaranteed that they will continue to look until they find one they like. They are free to do so. There is zero risk to switch and try other guilds if they are not enjoying themselves in some.

Nice social atmoshpere is much harder to create than objective based system. Leaders might be able to make people achieve some objective, but they cannot make people enojy each others company. It happens almost by accident, if at all, just like in real life.

In some ways the chances of it happening can be improved by carefully planning on what kind of people you are trying get together. Is it the age? Nationality? What is the commong thing between your members. You simply cannot just invite everyone.

Ok, enough rambling. :P

Thank you for your reply. A few things I’d like to comment on. I run the guild with one co leader and no more than 4 officers at any given time. When an officer invites a member and I’m not online, because of the lack of visual notifications of any kind on the guild interface, I’m not always able to introduce myself as the leader right away.

Even when they aren’t introduced to me straight away, you’d think any member would look through the roster to see who is who, right? We do not invite everyone and never do we randomly invite either.

There is an initial screening process as well as in writing requirements that must be met to get in. The problem is – when you have all upgrades unlocked, yet a majority of the players invited don’t care enough from the get-go to participate in guild chat, VOIP, events or anything, it’s no longer about something objective. It’s about people having that certain way about them over the net.

The system just doesn’t help with that attitude in a positive way. It does for some, but for more in my experience, it does nothing but harm.

Mkalafut.1273:

Quickhit.3620:

I don’t see any point changing guilds daily.
Except you are a lone wolf and you just want the bonuses or something.

To my eyes guilds are a group of people that you stick together.Otherwise gt_o.Ryit?

If only every guild had more members like you, the situation wouldn’t be nearly as dire. Thank you for your input, Quickhit.

I have to say, it sounds to me like the problem you have isn’t the multiple guild system, it’s that the people in your guild are the kind you don’t want in your guild.

The trouble I see is player greed.
People want all the bonus from flags that a big guild can give.

The actual system is fine. With a multi guild system you can represent specialist guilds and normal guilds. For instance I am in a social guild, but when I want to share a tag with a pro pvp guild I switch over, without quitting on my friends.

Lethalvriend.1723:

I can see where you are coming from if you have such a large guild, to be honest. In the other games I’ve played guilds were very very rarely as large as 200+. Most guilds I’ve seen had perhaps 50 members of which 30-40 were most active. I think a part of the problem occuring right now is people handing out invites far too easily. I personally run a guild of 7 right now, yes that’s very small. But we only invite people we really enjoy playing with PLUS we make sure everyone in the guild will enjoy playing with that person. My guild doesn’t have so much guild chat spam as big guilds but we all talk to eachother and we all play together, there is no guild hopping or anything destructive currently. I think it is generally an issue with guilds just trying to get ‘big’ and inviting strangers without knowing anything of them. I am personally strongly against advertising in map chat etc because you will essentially invite a person that may not fit in at all. This can work both ways, but if you instead decide to only invite people you encouner while questing, doing dungeons or pvp you will see they won’t have this behavior.

Thank you for your reply. Don’t be fooled, in WoW we only kept around 60 members or so on the roster. After 2 weeks of not logging in we kick for inactivity. We only needed that many members to accommodate our raiding and PvP schedules and rosters.

In GW2 we currently have a little over 120 members. I’d say ~30 or so are actually active. And that’s ok. As soon as anything is put into the game to show inactivity time, we will clean house a bit.

I can’t say it enough in this thread, not ever have we handed out invites. Most of the time we don’t even spam a recruit message in global channels, we have people ask to join our guild from word of mouth or various recruitment posts on gaming websites.

We are not a zerg guild nor are we concerned with quantity. As long as we have quality members we enjoy playing with that makes it worth while. As I said earlier, just because my situation isn’t as bad, doesn’t mean others are in the same position.

I’ve taken in more than a couple ex guild leaders, members and officers of guilds that just didn’t last because of one reason or another and got sick of player’s attitudes towards guilds.

Ykfox.3825:

Mkalafut.1273:

Quickhit.3620:

I don’t see any point changing guilds daily.
Except you are a lone wolf and you just want the bonuses or something.

To my eyes guilds are a group of people that you stick together.Otherwise gt_o.Ryit?

If only every guild had more members like you, the situation wouldn’t be nearly as dire. Thank you for your input, Quickhit.

I have to say, it sounds to me like the problem you have isn’t the multiple guild system, it’s that the people in your guild are the kind you don’t want in your guild.

Not so. I have no problem with anybody in the guild. And as I’ve said this post isn’t specifically about any problem I am having with MY guild, but just problems as a whole that I’ve seen first hand.

Granted I listed a few examples of my own, and as a caring individual for what guilds stand for, I made this post on all their behalfs as well as my own because I feel this needed to be brought up.

Xericor.9103:

The trouble I see is player greed.
People want all the bonus from flags that a big guild can give.

The actual system is fine. With a multi guild system you can represent specialist guilds and normal guilds. For instance I am in a social guild, but when I want to share a tag with a pro pvp guild I switch over, without quitting on my friends.

Perfect example of the system being used correctly. Not as many players have the control you do and mostly just abuse the system going from 1 to the next, often having a full list of available guilds to represent until a bigger / better one in their eyes comes along.

In my opinion the real reason that guilds aren’t working right now is due to the fact that the game is lacking in structured content. When GvG comes out and when dungeons are revamped so that people actually want to run them, there will finally be an incentive to be in a guild beyond the solo-grinding buffs that guilds are currently used for.

I know that its frustrating and there’s a lot of things I think Anet needs to fix, but if you look at the replies from the devs it really looks like they’re doing their best to make sure the game heads in the right direction. So while I agree that guilds seem a bit unworkable atm, I do believe it will get better in future.

I’m off to bed. 6am is my limit. Please send me a PM if I don’t get to your post or if you feel compelled to. I will check back here first thing when I wake up because I like the discussion going on.

Thank you everyone for posting, see you tomorrow!

i dont like when you have to represent a guild just for the fact i have to have a (Guild) tag at the end of my name and i dont like that. or like in gw1 where you had a guild logo on ya cape they may want you to wear. i didnt like having to wear that either.

I don’t see the same things you see, Mkalafut. Our members usually know each other, at least they know their officers/leaders. And if they don’t recognize a name (which can happen, especially if said officer has a lot of characters :P), they know where to find the account name and check that.

We do have an international guild, but most people know each other for a long time now (coming from GW1). And those new ones either know one or more other members or have been going to the forum where our guild is also represented.

I know of a few members who do have multiple guild(s) and who will represent that other guild some times. For instance when they’re playing WvW. But when I meet them in WvW, they’ll just as easily team up with me as with somebody from their other guild.

I also am part of three guilds. I made my own (hey, free storage!), I have my main guild, and I’m in a guild with friends I met during my time in GW1 with the same love for ranger pets. I am mostly in my main guild but once guesting is finally working, I’ll probably switch a few hours a week to that other guild, so I can play with those people (in GW1 we met once a week).

If there is one thing that is killing guilds, it is the server split. As I said, I’m part of an international guild, with people from all over the world. But some are on NA servers and some are on EU servers. And that’s simply killing the guild spirit as guild members who happen to be online at the same time can’t play together. At times, somebody says: “Maw is up”, I respond with “Would love to join, but you’re on the other server”.

Xarog.3172:

In my opinion the real reason that guilds aren’t working right now is due to the fact that the game is lacking in structured content. When GvG comes out and when dungeons are revamped so that people actually want to run them, there will finally be an incentive to be in a guild beyond the solo-grinding buffs that guilds are currently used for.

I know that its frustrating and there’s a lot of things I think Anet needs to fix, but if you look at the replies from the devs it really looks like they’re doing their best to make sure the game heads in the right direction. So while I agree that guilds seem a bit unworkable atm, I do believe it will get better in future.

I agree. And it’s not their faults, they are doing the best they can in the time they have. I know first hand that TONS of people went back to WoW to try the new expansion and others just are waiting for more stuff to be released before they come back.

I do agree that a big part of the problem is the lack of guild-only functions. Things that increase the incentive to be a member of an established guild are needed to increase player loyalty and activity. Until then, it will just be a slippery slope of guild hopping and guilds losing members left and right.

“Why be in that smaller guild with less orange chat when I can be in that bigger one? Oh they’re more skilled and more friendly? Meh, PuGs can clear the dungeons I don’t need a skilled guild.” was something else I saw earlier in the week when I asked someone how they felt about it.