The multi-guild system & why guilds are pointless.
Personaly most of the issues from the OP I have seen in single guilding (typically more so in per character guilds, though you can represent different guild with different characters too), so it’s not so much the multi-guilding being a factor.
I’ve not read every post (there are allot), but have skimmed or read most. For me I dont ever join a global advertising guild because I see it more as they just arent interested in type or quality of people, over the quantity of people.
In fact I think the multi-guilding is a good aspect because in single guilding, people that work well togeather (but in different guilds) can be loath to offer places in a guild they are in so as the guild doesnt get an unfounded reputation for poaching members from other guilds.
An individual may also be happy with their current guild so doesn’t consider asking to join one they happen to be playing frequently with too. However the multi-guilding gives the option to do so without a poaching reputation being formed, it then lets a player try a new guild and see if it offers better optios without cutting ties to a guild they are otherwise happy with.
There is also the aspect for some people of being offered membership as opposed to them asking for it. Being personally offered a position in a guild shows an aspect of some consideration (whether there actually is or isnt varies) as to the current members would desire something the new member has to offer, as opposed to asking to be in a guild is simply showing that you want something the guild has.
All that said, there is some functionality that could help and can hinder it a bit too.
The ability to not listen-in to or chat with the guild in one or even all the guilds you are a part of but not representing. This could mean while you are interested in doing stuff with the guild you may want to be earning the influence for another guild be it your guild of real life friends, your personal one you want to get enough influence for to unlock, or even the snallest guild that you are part of that may need your influence to get even the most basic of upgrades for (especially if you have larger guilds with all the upgrades anyway).
At the end of the day because you dont know whats going on, your not going to do stuff with the guild and not represent.
I do agree something along the lines of last time the player represented your guild (and for how long), would be a usefull too for striping out the useless chaff (though thats likely to have other issues too, though I’d be loath for them to add a tally of influence you did earn them to that).
A big part of it (for testing people for recruitment) is that I’ve found that playing end’s up more like a group of cats, everyone comes togeather for an event or group quest and once it’s over (a few minutes later) everyone scatters (dungeons tend to be a bit different). Which was one of the strengths of GW instances in that you tended to play with the same people for a while (assuming you grouped at all), thus chose to talk, for some of it, getting to know how the player played or what the player was like as a person.
Not many people actually want to explore as a large (4+) groups either, typically running from point to point as people that like to take time to explore (“smelling the roses” along the way) arent that common either. Instead racing from map completion point to map completion point. This makes for less group building (thus guild building) as well.
All in all guilds have generally been either of two factors, used to get something done (thus what you get out of a guild, or what the guild gives ‘me’), and/or a community of similar interests (circle of friends/ social grouping or working as a team).
Guilds often typically had their neiche subgroups too of players that prefered PvP and players that prefered PvE, and a few that did both. These are just realy specialised guilds now so ‘good’ guilds are more likely to be smaller than in other games too.
From reading most guild leaders replies on this thread, it just proves guild leaders are egotistical and sorry, It’s the truth. If I was to join a guild, they are the guild for me, I wont go elsewhere, I wont join elsewhere and quite frankly, if I where to, I honestly believe both guild leaders should kick me and I wouldn’t blame them. If someone is the opposite to me, great, kick them, because it shows loyalty. A good guild will be able to keep those loyal players, if not, they aren’t loyal.
that is as unfair and impolite as it gets and pretty much a moocher´s point of view. But you sure like to get all the boons that come with guilds I guess? First of all: I have never led a guild in any game, so I am not personally invested. Those are the people that sacrifice time to recruit, manage guild activities, often run and pay for websites, voice servers and so on and so on. You are spitting into those people´s faces with your across the board insult. Hopefully you make your attitude clear whenever applying to a guild in the future, maybe when you are being derived of the services those guys provide you rethink your point of view.
(edited by Algreg.3629)
So far I just can’t find many advantages to being in a guild at all. And I really enjoy the guild aspect of mmo’s, but with GW2 at least there is nothing to really band together against (PvE wise) I played EQ, WoW and both had ways to make you want to find a guild and get out there to fight dragons together. It was a bonding experience, but I have not felt that at all in this game. I love GW2! but there just isn’t any raids that you have to have 20-40 people to complete. I still play with some friends and we made a small guild but its just more of a social chat room. Until there is a real reason to have a dedicated guild I doubt many people will take it seriously.
I really like the concept of multi guilds but there’s definitely the need for more in game options for guilds to organize and manage their members.
Well I said before its not really multi guild system that is problem …
problem is there is not enough guild only activities like gvg clan halls or raids or guilds only events whatever
banner system support big 400 members guild and people join only because of that
they need make banners passive and probably limit it to some guild rank so people will actually try to be active and not be there for buffs only
I have to agree with the OP. guilds are rather pointless. Other than some buffs and the bank, I don’t see why you need them. It’s almost like Anet just went for some kind of extended friends list.
The games I came from it was almost impossible to play without a guild (AoC/EQ). Giving people a reason to stay in guild to work on content/PvP galvanises that guild. People get better at working together and evetually you get a pretty frinedly atomsphere in the vent. Here, other than some exta karma/exp for being in group, your not rewarded with anything. There is no incentive for people to stay with a guild, if your guild is not doing well you can simmply hop to a larger one. Get bored with that, just move again.
The system does not encourage people working together. For those in well established large guilds, those guilds were not built in GW2. Those large guilds are transfers from another game or a gaming communtiy who came into GW2 with their infrastructure and player base pretty much intact. For guilds like that, sure, mutli-guilding could work as you can coordinate with other large guilds who did the same.
But for the average player, how are you supposed to build guilds when their is no incentive to do so? No 18+ raiding events and only WvW to encourage large scale guild play is not a huge way to build guilds…
To be honest, as a member and an officer in the guild, i have to agree that the system is good and bad. It’s good because it allows you to have a pvp, pve and a rp guild for example. Some people like the feature because of that.
I don’t. I’ve seen so many people join, notice that our guild is small-medium sized (100-120 players), stay for however long we have boosts up then go represent another guild for their boosts.
Most people don’t give a kitten loyalty in this game to a guild is nothing really.
If you look at alot of these arguments against the multiguilding in this thread, they aren’t really arguments against it at all rather than arguments for why Anet needs to provide people who are in control of guilds with more exclusive rights to things in game to help them keep control outside of their guild just being plain fun to be in.
This is why you see the guys in this thread still braging about how legit their recruitment process is or how they screen for “quality players.” Thats because they come from leading guilds in games where its good to be king. They come from games that put them in control of their fellow players character progression and the loss of that power stings when they come play this game.
When you are not representing a guild, mechanically it’s as if you were not part of that guild at all.
It’s more like having permission to auto-invite yourself.
So you can’t actually be in more than one guild at the same time.
They should note clearly that you are not actually in the guilds you are not representing to make people aware of that fact.
They should also add a ‘last online’ column and a ‘influence gained’ column, so guilds who want to kick leechers can do so.
They should also add a ‘last online’ column and a ‘influence gained’ column, so guilds who want to kick leechers can do so.
How exactly does one leech from a guild? I’m only seeing the option to contribute.
So what you really mean is to kick those who don’t contribute enough imo.
They should also add a ‘last online’ column and a ‘influence gained’ column, so guilds who want to kick leechers can do so.
How exactly does one leech from a guild? I’m only seeing the option to contribute.
So what you really mean is to kick those who don’t contribute enough imo.
It’s simple people join guilds only when they have banners active after that they represent another one that got banners … because of this people are joining 400 member guilds with everything usually you see maybe 30 of them representing …
guilds chats are dead … they are no guild activities no clan halls no guild only dungeons or events … that is major issue
it’s not that guild leaders want to feel superior but in past games guilds meant something … for example If anyone mention my guild they know we had great pre made pvp and top progress in raids
we went to bar together chatting and playing various games online etc … now gw 2 feels more like single player game than mmo …
They should also add a ‘last online’ column and a ‘influence gained’ column, so guilds who want to kick leechers can do so.
How exactly does one leech from a guild? I’m only seeing the option to contribute.
So what you really mean is to kick those who don’t contribute enough imo.
It’s simple people join guilds only when they have banners active after that they represent another one that got banners … because of this people are joining 400 member guilds with everything usually you see maybe 30 of them representing …
guilds chats are dead … they are no guild activities no clan halls no guild only dungeons or events … that is major issue
it’s not that guild leaders want to feel superior but in past games guilds meant something … for example If anyone mention my guild they know we had great pre made pvp and top progress in raids
we went to bar together chatting and playing various games online etc … now gw 2 feels more like single player game than mmo …
Its beautiful the way it is in my honest opinion. Six months from now these things will work themselves out relatively drama free in comparison to what it would be without this system. You’re also forgetting that smaller groups of player can take advantage of this and effectively have multiple guilds dedicated to different activities when it comes to bonuses that allows players to bounce between guilds depending on which bonuses cater to which activity they chose to engage in. Also, there are alot of guilds on my server that require 100% representation so that scenario with the 400 man guild and only 30 representing is totally optional to begin with. Its all about choice.
I think Anet did the right thing in context to what their game is by working hard to lessen these social heirarchies found in other games that were related to character progression rather than fun.
Representing a guild should be done automatically for all characters in an account to the guild it joins. Many people don’t know they need to represent with another character especially if they are not interested in chatting
i look at the guild as an easy to get FL. this is not good
They should also add a ‘last online’ column and a ‘influence gained’ column, so guilds who want to kick leechers can do so.
How exactly does one leech from a guild? I’m only seeing the option to contribute.
So what you really mean is to kick those who don’t contribute enough imo.
It’s simple people join guilds only when they have banners active after that they represent another one that got banners … because of this people are joining 400 member guilds with everything usually you see maybe 30 of them representing …
guilds chats are dead … they are no guild activities no clan halls no guild only dungeons or events … that is major issue
it’s not that guild leaders want to feel superior but in past games guilds meant something … for example If anyone mention my guild they know we had great pre made pvp and top progress in raids
we went to bar together chatting and playing various games online etc … now gw 2 feels more like single player game than mmo …Its beautiful the way it is in my honest opinion. Six months from now these things will work themselves out relatively drama free in comparison to what it would be without this system. You’re also forgetting that smaller groups of player can take advantage of this and effectively have multiple guilds dedicated to different activities when it comes to bonuses that allows players to bounce between guilds depending on which bonuses cater to which activity they chose to engage in. Also, there are alot of guilds on my server that require 100% representation so that scenario with the 400 man guild and only 30 representing is totally optional to begin with. Its all about choice.
I think Anet did the right thing in context to what their game is by working hard to lessen these social heirarchies found in other games that were related to character progression rather than fun.
it will never work out … problem is not multi guilds but how banners and guild activities are…
problem is there are no guild activities other than click on banner to get buff ..
this effectively is destroying social aspect of this game
it’s pretty much seems from your post that guilds are about some1 being king and other serving …
did you ever been at least officer ? it’s hard work you know? from moderating forum to updating site mumble / ts / vt recruitment creating events ..
I don’t know what game you played before but no one is forcing anyone to be slave in any mmo I played … i
f you think this is reason .. then let me tell you that most guild masters do most works years ago I spent 7 hours days only managing guild crafting consumables preparing tactics for bosses etc
this is MMO not single player if there is not enough activities to encourage people to play together or use guild chat something is wrong. People in this game feels like NPC mostly in open world
and you don’t know anything about smaller players groups … because if you did not transfer people form other games there is currently no way to create successful guild as everyone is joining those 400 just for buffs because there is no other reason to be in guild and if someone is joining your small guild they will always represent big one just for buffs … if you look few pages back I actually suggested lots of things that can solve this
My Guild also will /whisper people if they’re not repping and try to enforce the “no other Guilds” rule. I PERSONALLY don’t mind it because I’ll be honest, I have a great Guild that is both chatty and hard at work in WvW and tPvP (pretty much my dream Guild).
I rep them about 95% of the time. The only time I stand down is to pop into a Guild from a previous game, and see if they’re running tournies for laughs. That Guild actually only has 4 or 5 people on at any given time though so I’m quick to switch back to TG. Not to mention how happy I was when some of the members from the smaller Guild joined TG.
TL;DR I like the multi-guild thing, but wouldn’t be sad to see it go.
But thats also because I haven’t run into any other Guilds that peaked other interests. Not to say I’d leave my current. But I do have a lot of crafting interests and PvE interests and TG is primarily PvP and WvW with a smidgen of PvE and no crafting.
Problem: I have a jerk in my guild that is not representing us.
Solution: Prevent people from being in multiple guilds, forcing them to represent mine.
New problem: I have a jerk in my guild, don’t know it, and he is giving us all a bad name.
I don’t disagree the initial problem is a problem, but I fail to see how removal of multiple guild memberships is a solution. If these people made it into your guild, perhaps you need tighter controls and a more personal recruitment event to make sure you know who you are inviting and so they know who and what they are joining.
-Fildydarie
Hutchmistress of the Fluffy Bunny Brigade [FBB]
Hutchmistress of the Fluffy Bunny Brigade [FBB]
it will never work out … problem is not multi guilds but how banners and guild activities are…
problem is there are no guild activities other than click on banner to get buff ..
this effectively is destroying social aspect of this gameit’s pretty much seems from your post that guilds are about some1 being king and other serving …
did you ever been at least officer ? it’s hard work you know? from moderating forum to updating site mumble / ts / vt recruitment creating events ..
I don’t know what game you played before but no one is forcing anyone to be slave in any mmo I played … i
f you think this is reason .. then let me tell you that most guild masters do most works years ago I spent 7 hours days only managing guild crafting consumables preparing tactics for bosses etc
This guy is showcasing the exact mentality I’m speaking of. I never said slave and relate it more to employee and so do you by what you’re saying here. “It’s hard work you know?” Yes we all know its hard work to play a video game and wow you’re really driving my point home. You just admitted to “spending 7 hour days” towards character progression rather than fun. “Look guys at how selfless I am, now this is what I expect of you!” Its soo predictable it isn’t even funny.
The only thing effectively destroying the social aspect of this game is you and others. Theres plenty to do that requires a group. Lets just say what we really mean shall we? Theres nothing in this game that pigeonholds anyone into playing with anyone they don’t want to for the sake of character progression. Thats something were not used to seeing in mmos. So this game allows people to play it with whoever they want for the sake of having fun and a certain demographic of players who many are likely leaders of raid guilds from previous mmos want to wage war on that.
Maybe this just isn’t the game thats going to offer you a social heirarchy for the sake of character progression that you seem to need soo badly.
(edited by Vlaxitov.5693)
Doubt you’lle ever read this given the number of posts here but still, I’ll say it.
One thing that really got me from your post was that you’re complaining that there are people in your guild who don’t even know who you are, yet after you say there is no way you can know who have you already messaged about representing. So everybody must know you, but you don’t even care to try to remember or keep a record of who you’ve messaged already? Big ego you have there…
Second thing if your guild is not appealing or entertaining for someone, that is not their fault, it’s the whole guilds fault, but not even that is a bad thing, myself for instance went through a lot of guilds until I could find one in which I feel I belong, each one had their good and bad things but maybe the good were ok for some, but not for me. Even if you share similar playstyles with other people that doesn’t mean you’ll get along, and if you don’t this system allows you to compare between different possibilities. Is that really a bad thing??
What I believe you’d want is to force everybody to stay and represent your guild after they’ve joined…thats the main message I get from your post. But do you really want people who don’t even want to be there and prefer to be somewhere else? If someone says that they don’t give a kitten about you kicking them, why even bother trying to keep him, maybe your guild wasn’t the place for him, just let him go…
I just wanted to get others opinions on the following: I personally am not to thrilled with the ability to represent option in guild. I feel it takes a way from the social aspects of the guild & basically causes division among members.
I appreciate what ANET is trying to do but I do disagree with it. Isn’t a guild supposed to be a group of people that are united as one, with similar objectives within the game, socially & gameplay?
I realize that players have different tastes WvW sPvP PvE & not always is a guild going to have the people on or the people into forming a group for ie WvW & I can see the convenience of being able to guild hop but can’t the same be accomplished via friends list? I just find the current system causes a lack of cohesion in the guild.
Besides If a guild isn’t meeting a players gamestyle etc: etc: quite easy to find a new home that will make them happier & accommodate their playstyle & needs. Quite simple.
I don’t know maybe it is just me & not used to it, I don’t think so though. But curious to see other peoples opinions on this.
My guild is full, I don’t have time to be in another guild and my guild requires I rep them. Because of these factors I find multi-clanning pretty useless too, however when I first started I did multi-clan until lvl 80.
I just wanted to get others opinions on the following: I personally am not to thrilled with the ability to represent option in guild. I feel it takes a way from the social aspects of the guild & basically causes division among members.
I appreciate what ANET is trying to do but I do disagree with it. Isn’t a guild supposed to be a group of people that are united as one, with similar objectives within the game, socially & gameplay?
I realize that players have different tastes WvW sPvP PvE & not always is a guild going to have the people on or the people into forming a group for ie WvW & I can see the convenience of being able to guild hop but can’t the same be accomplished via friends list? I just find the current system causes a lack of cohesion in the guild.
Besides If a guild isn’t meeting a players gamestyle etc: etc: quite easy to find a new home that will make them happier & accommodate their playstyle & needs. Quite simple.
I don’t know maybe it is just me & not used to it, I don’t think so though. But curious to see other peoples opinions on this.
I am in 4 guilds. We’ll ignore 3 of them and focus on my guild of dungeon buddies.
You an make the case that it is a glorified friends list, but the key component is that it is a network, not a list; other people can grow the list, not just me. So, yes, while I read it like a friends list, the compilation of its roster is anything but.
Of course, that guild also discourages members from representing. We understand that we are not a primary guild for people, we’re a support network.
-Fildydarie
Hutchmistress of the Fluffy Bunny Brigade [FBB]
Hutchmistress of the Fluffy Bunny Brigade [FBB]
I’m still not sure if I like the multi guild system but a few things to consider. If you are in a guild and see a huge list of ‘members’ not representing or logged on, psychologically it is a slap in the face. Even more depressing to the rank and file is seeing guild officers in representing another guild.
So, if you have multiple toons, some of which aren’t in a guild, I don’t think it is anyone’s business that you are online and not representing. If you aren’t representing you should not be visible on the guild list. If I care about someone that much they will be on my friends list. Someone may have a RP character in one guild, a PvP character in another, or just want to have a toon to hide on.
I do think that guild leaders should be able to see when characters or accounts last represented and perhaps how long in the last week, so they can clean house as needed.
Beyond guild policies that state, everyone needs to represent x hours a week or on Fridays, there is little to be done to ‘force’ people to represent. Maybe they can code a Single pledge guild vs a Multi pledge guild option sometime in the future.
I do think that guild leaders should be able to see when characters or accounts last represented and perhaps how long in the last week, so they can clean house as needed.
In addition to (at the least) last login time and last represent time, I’d also like to see the influence contribution of each player (aggregate and/or last X days).
I think that leaving the tools in the hands of the players is the best course.
-Fildydarie
Hutchmistress of the Fluffy Bunny Brigade [FBB]
Hutchmistress of the Fluffy Bunny Brigade [FBB]
Yes , the tool to make sure officers and leaders can check when players last represented and logged in , is real necessary atm.
Fact is , there is no reason to give a slot to a player who does not want to represent , mostly , our guild , even when we got 500 slots.
For now we got a “work around” , which does not work 100% and make us kick some active players also , but at least the guild is alive. Still i guess would grief less the members if they knew they would not get kicked unfairly, while would make our work go down a lot.
Gear Grind: Confirmed – Searching New MMO: Found – Changing MMO: Waiting Launch
They should also add a ‘last online’ column and a ‘influence gained’ column, so guilds who want to kick leechers can do so.
How exactly does one leech from a guild? I’m only seeing the option to contribute.
So what you really mean is to kick those who don’t contribute enough imo.
It’s simple people join guilds only when they have banners active after that they represent another one that got banners … because of this people are joining 400 member guilds with everything usually you see maybe 30 of them representing …
guilds chats are dead … they are no guild activities no clan halls no guild only dungeons or events … that is major issue
it’s not that guild leaders want to feel superior but in past games guilds meant something … for example If anyone mention my guild they know we had great pre made pvp and top progress in raids
we went to bar together chatting and playing various games online etc … now gw 2 feels more like single player game than mmo …
u got it right man, wow, +1
Commander of [XO] Xtreme Online – www.xogamers.com
My guild is a fairly small but happy guild. My members don’t represent the guild because they have to or because it’s a “rule”, they represent because they want to. But they also don’t represent 24/7. During the day when numbers are at their lowest they get on their PvP guild, or their other friends guild, and socialize but every night like clockwork everyone switches back over to Spellborn and we start running dungeons together and having loads of fun.
I guess I could see why some “serious” guilds might have a problem. But I think it’s less a problem with Guild Wars 2 allowing you to be in more than 1 guild, and more of a problem with how you’re recruiting your members.
Spellborn never advertises in general chat. And we only recruit people that we’ve actually played with (i.e. we have a particularly kick as run in TA and mention to the other party members our guild is always available if they want to run dungeons again in the future). The guild members we have, a beautiful sense of pride in our guild.
You shouldn’t have to force people to represent.
(Also: I see a bit of the original Guild Wars conflict happening. haha The Players are beginning to create guilds and fight for player loyalty… Just like in Guild Wars lore. I <3 it.)
I made a suggestion that makes it extremely valuable to stay loyal to a guild:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/Guild-Concept-Respect/first#post604959
Essentially, whenever you earn Influence towards guild A, you gain Respect within guild A.
In order to benefit from a guild’s bonuses, you would need to buy your right to benefit from them by spending Respect.
This right would have a duration, and you’d pay for each bonus individually.
This way, simply “representing” a guild does not automatically earn you the right to benefit from its bonuses – you also need to contribute enough Influence.
What Genreninja said! I belong to guilds that appeal to me. I rep each guild as I can. If no one is on a guild or I can’t entice people to chat or play with me, I hop to the next guild. It saddens me that I cannot chat will all of my guilds simultaneously and that gchat clears everytime I hop.
What Genreninja said! I belong to guilds that appeal to me. I rep each guild as I can. If no one is on a guild or I can’t entice people to chat or play with me, I hop to the next guild. It saddens me that I cannot chat will all of my guilds simultaneously and that gchat clears everytime I hop.
There are many kinds of guilds , join a small one with no rules regarding representation…
On a big guild , not representing is usually a kicking matter … the true problem to me is not kicking the not representing , is kicking people who represent a good amount of time but i dont see…
Gear Grind: Confirmed – Searching New MMO: Found – Changing MMO: Waiting Launch
I’m in a medium-sized guild for PvE. I’m also in a small guild for WvW that I like to represent when I’m there. Which isn’t frequently, but I like to toss them the rep. Anyway, we chat, we run dungeons together, many in the PvE dungeon run W3 together. We have a sense of community, we enjoy playing together. Nobody is forcing anybody to be there. There are no requirements to represent — though I’m not philosophically opposed to culling members who never represent, but if they’re off and on, no worries.
Point is, the OP, to me, sounds more miffed that X player didn’t respect his Authoritah, rather than he wasn’t representing his Guild. And that isn’t very copacetic, and it’ll seldom lead to having a tight-knit Guild. To point, I am very aware of who my Guild Leader is. But that has nothing to do with the point that he’s rubbing it my face. If not for the little, silly symbol next to his name, I’d never know the difference between him and any other friend in the Guild. That’s what’s important. Not wielding some sort of stick to keep people in line. I don’t think that’s effective leadership.
[DIE] – FA
“Is it uplevel ranger season yet?”
“Is it uplevel ranger season yet?”