Guild Wars 2

I understand there should be a cost for waypoints to teleport but it seems an awful lot for how much I earn. Also, if you die not only must you pay repairs but pay to rez also? I think they should make it free to rez at nearest waypoint and reduce the cost of teleporting a little bit

I don’t agree with reducing the cost to teleport due to the PvP > LA > Free portal to city trick, but I do find it weird that you need to pay the waypoint cost upon death. Kind of insult to injury for people who don’t earn much gold.

The costs for dying are there because otherwise you could just go to events, die over and over again and get exp/karma/coin that way.

And considering that we have an autoattack and an autorun feature, that would make it very easy for people to semi-afk farm events for the rewards, without any kind of botting involved.

And the way point costs are good: it makes Swiftness boon very handy, plus it promotes exploration.

ehoreth.2459:

I understand there should be a cost for waypoints to teleport but it seems an awful lot for how much I earn. Also, if you die not only must you pay repairs but pay to rez also? I think they should make it free to rez at nearest waypoint and reduce the cost of teleporting a little bit

I like the idea. Bill us for any other point, but the waypoint that’s closest should be free.

The death penalty is already laughably light. The penalty for death is more about your own personal pride than any in game punishment.

a level 80 blue item vendors for like 90 copper, to teleport from your corpse to nearest portal its 180 copper. So each death costs you about 2 items, so if you die frequently you are kinda doomed to poverty

Olba.5376:

The costs for dying are there because otherwise you could just go to events, die over and over again and get exp/karma/coin that way.

And considering that we have an autoattack and an autorun feature, that would make it very easy for people to semi-afk farm events for the rewards, without any kind of botting involved.

And the way point costs are good: it makes Swiftness boon very handy, plus it promotes exploration.

You could not AFK and die and be rerezed, you still have to choose which waypoint to be sent to which requires an actual person to be there. And there will always be people that exploit, i could do the pvp LA cheat but that is cheating the system, I want to change the system.

Also, I would rather pay more for repairs and free rez cause atleast that give you a choice. It kinda seems like a punishment to those who travel alone, since a friend can rez you for free

The waypoint costs were annoying at low levels and are exasperating at higher levels.

Firstly, lore-wise, it seems absurd. Regarding one’s suspension of disbelief, it clearly makes no sense that more powerful heroes pay more for a basic service available from the start than new characters. Really, is this what you call internal logic in a fictional world?

Secondly, it hampers social interaction – why ever should anyone pay the equivalent of 1 or 2 hearts in earnings to cross the world to help a guildie, particularly if they are only an acquaintance?

Thirdly, for a casual, non farming player, it makes the use of waypoints a serious economical dilemma. In GW1 I grinded my way to obsidian armour and many other sets for a main character, and even earned 20 or so titles, so I am not utterly against working in a game for my prizes.
However, in GW2, if one decides to, say, maintain a couple of crafts at a rate equal to level, and also save enough for training manuals, waypoint travel just isn’t in the budget anymore. In my case, I don’t even have the 1 gold right now to afford the middle manual for my main level 70. Did I mention repair costs?

There will be posters here that admonish me for poor playing strategy or terrible gold management, but really, I spend very little – even my crafting materials were 80% farmed by me. I am that average guy who actually just plays the game more or less as intended by the developers, except I haven’t been using waypoints since about level 30.

I mentioned a lot of costs here, but I don’t really mind any of the other costs. Waypoint fees scaling by level though is both story breaking and gameplay hampering.

I would like the waypoint costs reduced also. I am trying to save up money for the things I need and now, if I see someone in chat asking for help, it makes me stop and consider my funds before I go. Many times now I just ignore people wanting help over chat once I total up costs to get there, possible armor repair costs, and cost to waypoint back to where I was. And from what I’ve read, I’m not the only one. High waypoint costs stop people from being social.

Waypoints after death should be free because what happens if you die and don’t have enough money for the waypoint?

Silver Bride.4685:

Waypoints after death should be free because what happens if you die and don’t have enough money for the waypoint?

I always thought way-points were free on death?

Rather than just them straight reducing waypoint costs, why not have a rep system with each area, where the more rep you gain, the lower the waypoint costs?

Tasks (x amount a day) would be collected from a billboard (think Zaishan Dailies), and associated with that area:

Redoing a Renown Heart(s)

Given the tasks for Hearts aren’t things you associate with permanency (dealing with mobs / collecting things ect), have a select Renown Heart(s) a day be re-doable as part of the rep-gaining.

In the case of later areas that have no Renown Hearts, another system would have to be implemented (maybe for Orr, a successful Temple Takeover?)

Bounty

As in, tracking down a specific mob, killing him, and taking back proof that you’ve dealt with him. To stop players camping the spawn point as well, the mob would randomly re-spawn somewhere else on the map.

Event(s)

Doing a set number of different events (to stop players camping events) in that area will fulfill this.

Exploration

Completing a jumping puzzle, accessing a given vista, visiting a PoI and other exploration-related tasks fulfills this criteria.

Each successful task earns you:

• a number of reputation points for that area (depending on the difficulty of the task i.e. a jumping puzle will earn more than a vista). The higher the rep, the more rep points needed to reach the next milestone.
• XP
• coin
• Karma,
• a bag with random fine crafting mats related to that area.

Personally I think waypoint cost are seriously affecting the “social” aspect of the game, if you go to help people, it costs to get there, it costs to get back, no wonder the lower area’s are deserted.

To be honest, most of the time the game feels like a single player game.

I would love to be able to zoom all over the place to help people, get to champs and De’s quickly, but hey, when I see “need some help” or “champ here need help with”, I think, well that’s about 3 or 4 silver, nah I won’t bother.

I don’t mind repair costs, waypoint costs, a game killer.

Hi everyone,

You can add what suggestions you think may improve the game in this thread
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/Game-Improvement-Suggestions/page/21#post759051

Thanks for your understanding

scarybandit.8179:

Thirdly, for a casual, non farming player, it makes the use of waypoints a serious economical dilemma. […] However, in GW2, if one decides to, say, maintain a couple of crafts at a rate equal to level, and also save enough for training manuals, waypoint travel just isn’t in the budget anymore. In my case, I don’t even have the 1 gold right now to afford the middle manual for my main level 70. Did I mention repair costs?

This encapsulates the problem quite nicely. There are too many money sinks and not enough options for earning money.

Current money sinks:
Waypoint usage
Crafting (contingent on items only purchasable from vendors, etc)
Armour repair
Salvaging (cost of salvage kits; items yielded by salvaging have monetary values a tiny fraction of the original item’s value)
Use of the Trading Post (two taxes combined mean most TP transactions lose money compared to vendor cost (run of the mill items here people, not legendaries or rare dyes).

Combine this with the global, all-servers-wide trading post which seriously stifles raising money through the player economy (double taxation; supply vastly outstrips demand, which leads to the vast majority of player-crafted items being sold at cost), and you get a pretty clear picture.

TheDaiBish.9735:

Silver Bride.4685:

Waypoints after death should be free because what happens if you die and don’t have enough money for the waypoint?

I always thought way-points were free on death?

Waypoints absolutely are not free on death, but they should be.

Dhar.6392:

ehoreth.2459:

I understand there should be a cost for waypoints to teleport but it seems an awful lot for how much I earn. Also, if you die not only must you pay repairs but pay to rez also? I think they should make it free to rez at nearest waypoint and reduce the cost of teleporting a little bit

I like the idea. Bill us for any other point, but the waypoint that’s closest should be free.

I’m with Dhar and Ehoreth. This is a good idea.
I think waypoint costs are too expensive at high levels, especially when you don’t really earn much unless you play the trading post. Making the closest waypoint free would be a nice compromise to not totally eliminate waypoint costs, but lighten the ridiculously high prices of teleporting.

I think they should lower the costs to what they are for the lower levels, say level 10 and leave it at that cost. I didn’t mind using waypoints at the low levels but now I tend to spend more time trying to avoid waypoint costs.

If I may suggest…
How about having the DP for a Waypoint Paid in Karma? or at least optionally paid in Karma, Makes a certain Metaphysical sense to me, and well I’ve got like 6000 Karma and 2 Gold; personally I’ve yet to find a real use for that currency.

Astral Projections.7320:

I would like the waypoint costs reduced also. I am trying to save up money for the things I need and now, if I see someone in chat asking for help, it makes me stop and consider my funds before I go. Many times now I just ignore people wanting help over chat once I total up costs to get there, possible armor repair costs, and cost to waypoint back to where I was. And from what I’ve read, I’m not the only one. High waypoint costs stop people from being social.

Oh yes, nice point – I forgot that the waypoint cost is actually doubled to help people _ the toll there, and the toll back again. Hobbit movie title reference unintended.

I might also mention that time spent running through explorable areas with speed buffs is not time you spend much looking at scenery and appreciating the beauty of the world. Like most things that stand between you and your goal, it all just fades into the background. All perception is essentially filtering information after all.

So yeah, killing off waypoint costs would actually increase the time spent smelling the roses – not the reverse.

Gold sinks may be necessary for an inflationary economy, but this particular one comes at the expense of realism and mobility (which increases boring downtime), and of course, it stands as a punishment for helping strangers.

I thought that the waypoint prices were based on how distant the waypoints were, and was very dismayed to find that the prices went up with your levels. If waypoints were based strickly on distance, it wouldn’t be so bad. I also think that teleporting back to your home city should be free.

But teleporting back to my home city is free, not exactly but free.
Waypoint Cost is too expensive… Agreed with OP

Weebitt.3157:

I thought that the waypoint prices were based on how distant the waypoints were, and was very dismayed to find that the prices went up with your levels. If waypoints were based strickly on distance, it wouldn’t be so bad. I also think that teleporting back to your home city should be free.

Prices do go by how far you are. It’s just that the price level scales based on your level.

Felkes.2759:

Dhar.6392:

ehoreth.2459:

I understand there should be a cost for waypoints to teleport but it seems an awful lot for how much I earn. Also, if you die not only must you pay repairs but pay to rez also? I think they should make it free to rez at nearest waypoint and reduce the cost of teleporting a little bit

I like the idea. Bill us for any other point, but the waypoint that’s closest should be free.

I’m with Dhar and Ehoreth. This is a good idea.
I think waypoint costs are too expensive at high levels, especially when you don’t really earn much unless you play the trading post. Making the closest waypoint free would be a nice compromise to not totally eliminate waypoint costs, but lighten the ridiculously high prices of teleporting.

If you do events and kill things then you’ll make enough to cover the costs. Waypoints are still pretty cheap.

Blueshield.6291:

scarybandit.8179:

Thirdly, for a casual, non farming player, it makes the use of waypoints a serious economical dilemma. […] However, in GW2, if one decides to, say, maintain a couple of crafts at a rate equal to level, and also save enough for training manuals, waypoint travel just isn’t in the budget anymore. In my case, I don’t even have the 1 gold right now to afford the middle manual for my main level 70. Did I mention repair costs?

This encapsulates the problem quite nicely. There are too many money sinks and not enough options for earning money.

Current money sinks:
Waypoint usage
Crafting (contingent on items only purchasable from vendors, etc)
Armour repair
Salvaging (cost of salvage kits; items yielded by salvaging have monetary values a tiny fraction of the original item’s value)
Use of the Trading Post (two taxes combined mean most TP transactions lose money compared to vendor cost (run of the mill items here people, not legendaries or rare dyes).

Combine this with the global, all-servers-wide trading post which seriously stifles raising money through the player economy (double taxation; supply vastly outstrips demand, which leads to the vast majority of player-crafted items being sold at cost), and you get a pretty clear picture.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
“This encapsulates the problem quite nicely. There are too many money sinks and not enough options for earning money.”

SOOOOOO True 100%

I have never played a game where its this difficult to make money, i travel alot via waypoints, not from dying, but from gathering materials for crafting and exploring.

Azulia.1745:

I have never played a game where its this difficult to make money, i travel alot via waypoints, not from dying, but from gathering materials for crafting and exploring.

Ah! Thank you, that points out another money sink I had forgotten: gathering.

Depending on the material tier, the cost per use for gathering tools actually outweighs the value of material collected. This becomes a significant factor if you (unwisely) just use high-level tools for every gathering interaction. However, even using tier-appropriate tools, especially in the lower tiers, the material gained is sometimes worth less than the cost per-use of the tool. This is probably another consequence of having a cross-servers Trading Post.

When it was announced that GW2 was employing a real economist to help manage the economy I have to say I was a little bemused.

Economics, of course, is more like to Philosophy than say, Engineering, and so I wondered what kind of economy we would be taking part in. Economics is all about the values you ascribe to the X’s and Y’s in the equations – and even some of the equations are still being argued.

At the present time, either by accident or design, we are playing in an economy that is good for bankers and bad for manufacturing, and you get fined for jaywalking if you backtrack to help an old lady cross the road.

Ahem, this post got a little more theoretical than I envisioned starting out – anyway, where was I? Oh yeah – Waypoint costs are just too kitten high!

scarybandit.8179:

When it was announced that GW2 was employing a real economist to help manage the economy I have to say I was a little bemused.

Ah, well, that would explain it. Nobody better than an economist to ensure that no one can make a dime.

Blueshield.6291:

scarybandit.8179:

When it was announced that GW2 was employing a real economist to help manage the economy I have to say I was a little bemused.

Ah, well, that would explain it. Nobody better than an economist to ensure that no one can make a dime.

In that case they’ve managed to simulate this aspect of the real world quite well.

I’ll let you decide if it’s a good or a bad thing.

Either way, the amount of moneysinks in this game is too kitten high. (Yes, I wanted to meme that here, but was not sure if pics are allowed in this forum.)

Waypoint costs never should have been implemented to begin with. Free travel all the way.

Ayrilana.1396:

Weebitt.3157:

I thought that the waypoint prices were based on how distant the waypoints were, and was very dismayed to find that the prices went up with your levels. If waypoints were based strickly on distance, it wouldn’t be so bad. I also think that teleporting back to your home city should be free.

Prices do go by how far you are. It’s just that the price level scales based on your level.

Felkes.2759:

Dhar.6392:

ehoreth.2459:

I understand there should be a cost for waypoints to teleport but it seems an awful lot for how much I earn. Also, if you die not only must you pay repairs but pay to rez also? I think they should make it free to rez at nearest waypoint and reduce the cost of teleporting a little bit

I like the idea. Bill us for any other point, but the waypoint that’s closest should be free.

I’m with Dhar and Ehoreth. This is a good idea.
I think waypoint costs are too expensive at high levels, especially when you don’t really earn much unless you play the trading post. Making the closest waypoint free would be a nice compromise to not totally eliminate waypoint costs, but lighten the ridiculously high prices of teleporting.

If you do events and kill things then you’ll make enough to cover the costs. Waypoints are still pretty cheap.

No actually very often the rewards are so rubbishy that you don’t make back waypoint costs, so there’s no point in waypointing anywhere.

Silver Bride.4685:

TheDaiBish.9735:

Silver Bride.4685:

Waypoints after death should be free because what happens if you die and don’t have enough money for the waypoint?

I always thought way-points were free on death?

Waypoints absolutely are not free on death, but they should be.

They should not – there should be some cost associated with death.
Instead, i propose something like that:
The cost of the waypoint travel stays the same, but with few additional tweaks
1. the cost decreases over time, down to 0. It should not take long to go to 0 from max (no more than 10-15 mins)
2. using a waypoint resets the timer and cost back to max
3. death resets the timer and cost back to max (though most likely the timer should count down faster if you are dead)
4. city waypoints are always free.

Astralporing.1957:

4. city waypoints are always free.

This should definitely be the case due to some specific design choices with certain storylines. I just ran a new alt through the human 1-30 story missions, culminating in the player’s choice of an Order. In the 20-30 block, there were about 5-6 missions which sent the player into Kessex Hills and Gendarran Fields, both of which are two maps out past Divinity’s Reach.

Every single mission was turned in at a location inside Divinity’s Reach. This design forces the player to either spend an inordinate amount of gameplay time traveling on foot through zones which he or she is likely to already have completed, or use the waypoint system to complete the missions in a reasonable timeframe. I checked while I was doing this, and the mission rewards (including the sell price of gear rewards) were less than the one-way fast travel fee to merely turn in the missions.

With no reasonable alternatives to the waypoint system, it’s highly unfortunate that aspects of the game design push players towards using a system which is so grossly overpriced.

Blueshield.6291:

Astralporing.1957:

4. city waypoints are always free.

With no reasonable alternatives to the waypoint system, it’s highly unfortunate that aspects of the game design push players towards using a system which is so grossly overpriced.

Amen! Please consider changing this. If you craft and need to explore to gather mats, you go broke.

Azulia.1745:

Blueshield.6291:

Astralporing.1957:

4. city waypoints are always free.

With no reasonable alternatives to the waypoint system, it’s highly unfortunate that aspects of the game design push players towards using a system which is so grossly overpriced.

Amen! Please consider changing this. If you craft and need to explore to gather mats, you go broke.

You just contradicted yourself… the ONLY way to gather and efficiently gather mats is to NOT use the waypoints, and instead kill everything along the way and farm every resource node as you walk from place to place. :P

I do, however, completely agree with the sentiment about waypointing actively DISCOURAGING the social aspect of the game – I’ve found myself on several occasions deciding to not assist someone (either calling for help on map chat or even a guildie I don’t know very well) because I’m in the middle of Bumfart Egypt and the travel cost all the way to wherever I need to go (then back again) is several silver at my highest character’s level.

At the VERY least, major city waypoints should (IMHO) be free, and perhaps the more outlying zones should have a cost – you can justify it in the lore as being a “higher cost of maintaining such an obscure node” or something if you like. That way, at least I can choose to resurrect at a “free” node, which very well might be further from where I died, or pay a fee to use a more “remote” node (which is likely closer to where I got ganked). It does indeed feel like a “double death tax”. =(

Waypoint travel is just about the ONLY thing I actively enjoy much, much less in GW2 vs. GW1 (I loved the travel system in the original game personally).

it cost like 3-4s to go from one to the oposite side of the map so i don’t see what so expensive about WPs when for just one event you get 1s+
blue items sell for 40~99 copper, green 1s+

Batlav.6318:

it cost like 3-4s to go from one to the oposite side of the map so i don’t see what so expensive about WPs when for just one event you get 1s+
blue items sell for 40~99 copper, green 1s+

Any profit there, am I missing something.

3-4 s to go there, 3-4s to get back, reward 1s a couple of blues, 2s if your lucky, a green if your lucky.

Where’s the profit, looks like you lost money to me.

Rewards are rubbish, travel costs are high>

I can understand your point Batlav, but sometimes we want to teleport somewhere, but don’t expect to make any money to compensate for the trip. We don’t all find a silver worth of loot when we help a friend in a newbie area.

It feels like waypoint costs were added because rapidly jumping around for resource farming would be a problem. As a consequence of that cost, teleporting is also discouraged when there is no profit. Even if the teleport cost is minor, we are psychologically driven away from helping our friends, and especially strangers, because of loss aversion.

Teleport fees also creates a perverse incentive of performing a PvP teleport shell game just to get to Lion’s Arch and then a home town. It’s obviously flawed unless the developers think watching 3 loading screens just to go home is fun for every new player doing the personal story.

You can still prevent players from gaming resource nodes through teleports if you grant players a free teleport every hour or so. Then we could help out our friends without feeling like we had to give more than the time we spent with them.

But at a minimum, teleports to return to home cities and Lion’s Arch should always be free — because they’re effectively free now through a series of loading screens. Teleport fees should then be based on a waypoint’s distance from a city or the player, whichever is lesser, to avoid that secondary perverse incentive — going to the closest city, then teleporting to the location.

Well I think they should be scrapped altogether, waypoint fees that is.

This is the most unsocial, game I have ever played and come across.

Not something ArenaNet was aiming for I’m sure as GW1, at least in the early years untill hero’s, was a very sociable game.

ArenaNet killed it, for the sake of a gold sink.

I think I’d be more ok with the current costs so long as the WPs to each city is made free. Everyone does the “work around” of WvW -> LA Gate anyway which means that by design it is flawed to begin with. You want to make it cost? Fine. Make it like 2 gold to go to WvW if you’re not taking the LA Asura Gate – otherwise make the other cities free, not half/half.

Also, what happens if you die with no coin on you? I like banking most of my stuff – does that mean I can’t res if I can’t pay the fee?

Good thing I didn’t die in say… Vexa’s Lab in Fireheart Rise. That zone was pretty much dead when I soloed that place. Just seems like extremely poor planning and something that only a non mmorpg player would make. Hmm, do you think these people actually “play” their own game?

If they do, hopefully they are instructed to -not- party up with each other too, just to see how everyone else is managing.

Edit: Just thought of a good test for you ANet – make a toon on an EU server, have no coin, get killed in Fireheart rise or some other distant zone and time how long it takes for someone to come res you. Do this around 10 times (various zones) and let me know what you find.