Guild Wars 2

First off, keep this clean. No flaming, no raging, no trolling. Saying you agree or disagree with a reason is all you need to do.
Secondly, not really a petition, just couldn’t think of a better way of phrasing it.

Reasoning;
As of right now, MF is a mechanic that for the most part replaces otherwise much more useful upgrades, and in essence, promotes being greedy. How can you call an economy balanced when people have massively higher (though still incredibly low) chances of getting a drop actually worth money than everyone else? The ONLY time I have used MF gear was from about 50-70 when I was playing almost exclusively by myself, and if I died, that was my fault. Now at level 80 consistently running high levels of Fractals, and WvW when I’m bored I haven’t even looked at MF gear. Guild Wars 1 did almost everything in terms of drops completely right, no single person had a higher chance of getting a rare drop then anyone else in terms of statistics. Sure, farming pretty much was the endgame of GW1, but even if you compared someone who did nothing but farmed to someone who did nothing but HA (and actually had the “knowledge” to make it to halls) they both had an equal chance of getting something worth a substantial amount of money. An approach similar to this would be much more balanced than what we have to work with now.

Ahh, man! Magic find is seriously the worst. Causes so many groups to fail because of this useless stat, and they complain why they are dying… It just encourages people to be selfish and ruin the experience for everyone else… The should at least make it useless in dungeons… Stupid Anet, they have some great ideas many terrible ones too…

i disagree with removing it totally… but it is annoying in dungeons, removing its effectiveness totally in dungeons (but leaving it functioning in the overworld) would be nice

Yes, remove that **** and just increase drop from everything cough gw1 cough

/Signed – Stats are more important then selfishness

You lay out a solid argument for removing the magic find stat, but I disagree with a portion of your reasoning and your conclusion.

Toast.6459:

MF is a mechanic that for the most part replaces otherwise much more useful upgrades, and in essence, promotes being greedy.

That is absolutely true. However, it’s presented as one option for gear among many. The only force pushing players towards focusing on Magic Find as a stat is their own greed. Statting for Magic Find is not a gameplay imperative which gives anyone a tangible combat edge over one another, compared to the acquisition of maximum-tier gear for WvWvW, for example.

Toast.6459:

How can you call an economy balanced when people have massively higher (though still incredibly low) chances of getting a drop actually worth money than everyone else?

Magic Find doesn’t imbalance the economy in any way. Every player has the option of statting for Magic Find if (s)he chooses. It’s certainly possible that the market would look quite different without the option for Magic Find, but it is an option for everyone, and is therefore balanced. If there was some factor preventing certain players from acquiring Magic Find gear while allowing others, there might be some merit to claims of imbalance.

Do I support people wearing Magic Find gear into high-level Fractals, putting the success of the group at risk? No. But they can choose to stat however they want, just as I can choose not to run with people geared in such a manner. I don’t believe the answer is to restrict players’ gear choices, simply because some players don’t have the common sense to gear “properly” for a given endeavor.

No support from me here. Magic Find, like all other stats, is a stat that you choose to equip yourself with. Some people prefer to use it so they find better loot for themselves, which is perfectly fine. Sure, it may be annoying to you if they’re wearing it during a dungeon or something, but just because you don’t want others to be using it since it hampers performance, doesn’t mean it should be removed for the others who do want to use it. As Blueshield stated, restricting player’s gear choices isn’t the solution to this dilemma; there is no rule saying a player can’t use Magic Find, so if you don’t like it, you’ll just have to deal with it.

I will agree with the 2 above me.

Honestly , MF is fine , can be annoying in dungeons , but that is it.

I would bet most of the players that want to remove it completely are those that dont want to spend the money on the set. Simple like that. (while ofc im sure there is a minority with other reasons.)

Really the “I dont want to use it , so other should not have that option either” logic is really annoying.

I agree.

This (as other things) goes against one of Anets fundamental principles: you should play to have fun, not just prepare to have fun.

MF gear promotes the toxic mentalilty that playing is first and foremost about farming/grinding. But more importently, it makes you feel stupid for NOT wearing MF gear all the time.

I know this is very generalising, but imo it creates 3 groups of players:
1. those who play to to farm, preparing to have fun the whole time, thus wearing MF the whole time.
2. Those who dont like MF gear that much, but feel forced to wear it, because its statisticly stupid to not wear MF gear.
3. Those like me who hate MF so much that they wont buy the kitten things – but still feel stupid because they know that they will always be relatively poor gold and item wise.
I think that this is more than just a question of selfishness. It is one of the things in this game (as in other MMOs) that pushes players into the metality of doing the things they are doing for other reasons than just doing them. They are not doing an event to win a fight or defend something, they are doing it because they are preparing for something that has nothing to do with the event (i.e. gear and gold). Hence the kittenedness of WANTING TO FAIL events to get more farm. I think only MMOs have this sickness.

Blueshield.6291:

You lay out a solid argument for removing the magic find stat, but I disagree with a portion of your reasoning and your conclusion.

Toast.6459:

MF is a mechanic that for the most part replaces otherwise much more useful upgrades, and in essence, promotes being greedy.

That is absolutely true. However, it’s presented as one option for gear among many. The only force pushing players towards focusing on Magic Find as a stat is their own greed. Statting for Magic Find is not a gameplay imperative which gives anyone a tangible combat edge over one another, compared to the acquisition of maximum-tier gear for WvWvW, for example.

Toast.6459:

How can you call an economy balanced when people have massively higher (though still incredibly low) chances of getting a drop actually worth money than everyone else?

Magic Find doesn’t imbalance the economy in any way. Every player has the option of statting for Magic Find if (s)he chooses. It’s certainly possible that the market would look quite different without the option for Magic Find, but it is an option for everyone, and is therefore balanced. If there was some factor preventing certain players from acquiring Magic Find gear while allowing others, there might be some merit to claims of imbalance.

Do I support people wearing Magic Find gear into high-level Fractals, putting the success of the group at risk? No. But they can choose to stat however they want, just as I can choose not to run with people geared in such a manner. I don’t believe the answer is to restrict players’ gear choices, simply because some players don’t have the common sense to gear “properly” for a given endeavor.

Yes, but lets be honest, looking at the majority of players in any game, how many would prefer to help the masses (in this case, by using more useful upgrades and not dying), and how many would prefer to help themselves? If you give people an option to further their own progression and disregard others, nine out of ten times they will always pick themselves.

What jobah says is true as well. I’ve said it many times, and I’ll say it again. This game is slowly turning into the modern Silkroad Online.

plus one more. (spelled out for the machine)

No,shouldn’t be removed.People should just learn to understand when or when not to use it and have a main armor set and a MF armor set.

Caedmon.6798:

No,shouldn’t be removed.People should just learn to understand when or when not to use it and have a main armor set and a MF armor set.

im fairly sure most of those who do [use MF gear in innappropriate places] are aware theyre making themselves a hindrance…

I disagree with removal tho i would suggest they change the stats to power/toughness. would work better.

I also would like to add that if they won’t fix it (because it’s not working in open world AT ALL in all of my test runs of using it [outside of getting slightly better resource node drops]) then please remove it because tempting us and then denying us the better drops is cruelty.

I don’t think it should be ‘removed’, but I also don’t get why most games make it into an ‘either/or’ situation. Why not just make a slotted section on armor specifically for MF stuff only (and increase the value as you get higher level up to a certain %) that doesn’t interfere with the other more valuable stats? This seems like a ‘no brainer’ to me. /shrug

MilitiaMasterV.7216:

I don’t think it should be ‘removed’, but I also don’t get why most games make it into an ‘either/or’ situation. Why not just make a slotted section on armor specifically for MF stuff only (and increase the value as you get higher level up to a certain %) that doesn’t interfere with the other more valuable stats? This seems like a ‘no brainer’ to me. /shrug

The same effect, though would essentially be accomplished by simply upping the universal drop rates by between 1 and 5%. The system as it’s implemented does make sense; in order to ensure a higher drop rate you have to sacrifice some combat effectiveness. It’s a perfectly reasonable tradeoff. The only problem is that some people are so greedy or so lazy that they wear Magic Find gear into places they shouldn’t.

I’d like to propose another way of looking at the problem. Imagine a player who is entirely unconcerned with stats and combat effectiveness, and just wants to look good while he or she journeys through the world. This player finds a set of armor which (s)he thinks is the best-looking set (s)he’s seen yet. Unfortunately, it is a set of common armor with garbage for stats. This player could wear the set of junk armor into a high-level dungeon and ruin his/her combat effectiveness, or (s)he could choose to switch to an appropriate set.

So, because players could wear junk drops into a dungeon, should we remove all junk drops from the game? Or should we consider that the problem is really that the player chose to wear inappropriate gear?

It always is the player that makes the decision to take inferior gear, but if you finish that thought there are 2 possible solutions:

1.) Gear inspection, so the other players involved can also make a decision.
2.) Give everyone equal stats.

The middleway would be to remove/rework MF.
Because then you take away one of the two options people have when deciding on their ‘endgame’ gear. I am going to ignore the case where a player would pick a blue level 20 armor for the looks, because that one is seriously hopeless.

I greatly support this.

This would encourage dungeon running and discourage people from open world farming, therefore the drop rate for some items would have to be increased.

I dont use magic find so i wont be sad to see it go.... I was very suprised to see a stat lkitten magic find in an mmo.. my only thought is they implemented this as way of selling vboosters to it in the gem store to make moneh

MF is important only to one type of players – those who not only need to have better drops, but need to have better drops than others. This promotes unhealthy playing style.

Please remove it and increase drop rates for all to compensate.

I run a full MF set in fractals and I’ve never had a problem. Consequently, my full MF Thief survives level 13 just fine while my toughness guardian gets killed every 3 seconds at level 1. The point I’m trying to make here might not be that obvious, but if someone chooses MF gear over whatever other stats they can get there mythical stats from their trait trees and adapt their playstyle to their gear/stat combination. If you’ve run into players who, for whatever reason, cannot or will not make MF gear viable for themselves then maybe you should stop pointing a finger at the gear and consider the player. Think of it like this, would you take ToughnessVitality Exoticpants who is convinced red circles denote safe spots or the level 34 guy in blues who can kite a tunnel-full of dredge in his sleep?

Shouldn’t be removed, it should be up to each player what states they want on their gear, otherwise, what is demanded removed next? You can always ask people not to wear MF armor/weapons/jewels in dungeons.
Dungeon groups hardly fail because some is using MF

SpeedFiend.4521:

I run a full MF set in fractals and I’ve never had a problem. Consequently, my full MF Thief survives level 13 just fine while my toughness guardian gets killed every 3 seconds at level 1. The point I’m trying to make here might not be that obvious, but if someone chooses MF gear over whatever other stats they can get there mythical stats from their trait trees and adapt their playstyle to their gear/stat combination. If you’ve run into players who, for whatever reason, cannot or will not make MF gear viable for themselves then maybe you should stop pointing a finger at the gear and consider the player. Think of it like this, would you take ToughnessVitality Exoticpants who is convinced red circles denote safe spots or the level 34 guy in blues who can kite a tunnel-full of dredge in his sleep?

Depends on the geared person’s profession ^

Get rid of it. Simple diablo clone stat.

Ceder Of Tyria.5079:

Dungeon groups hardly fail because some is using MF

but it does slow things down (/irritate others) considerably

several times ive played with ‘ranged classes’ using MF gear because they think they’re ‘safe’; i then have serious trouble reviving them (from downed) faster than 1 semi trash mob can do that damage to them; which means that i have to keep them from dying whilst nonMF team mates kill whatever is poking them (without my DPS) or everyone stop killing stuff and healing one person (effectively pausing dungeon progression)

Sorry OP, but all I’m getting from threads like this is “There are people out there whose play styles differ from my own. This is unacceptable and simply must stop.”

Fortunately, I will continue to play this game as I see fit, rather than as some elitist on a power trip believes I should play.

+1 for removal of this stat. To let ppl choose what they want in every respect is a terrible idea. If there is a stat that gives you a better edge in the game, then ofc most are gonna choose that one regardless if it drags down your group in a dungeon. So when everyone is running around with magic find why not just remove it?

count me in. Magic find needs to go.

Mf is good as it is , you wont get rid of bad players because you remove mf & if a player is not avoiding dmg it doesnt mater what gear he is wearing.

/signed

As a player who uses a full MF set, I’d like to see it removed.
I feel compelled to wear it if I want to make some money (because I hate farming for hours and the less I can farm, the better. Also, the economy is calibrated on MF now) even if I DO NOT LIKE wearing it at all, it spoils my fun by, de facto, removing me the choice on how to spec my character.
I don’t think they will ever remove it from the game, but I sincerely hope that they will. But if they do, I hope they’ll remove from all the game, and not just for the dungeons (as someone is suggesting).

The fact that the magic find stat exists points to the fact that the endgame centers around mindless repetitive farming. If there was a skill based alternative to increasing your chances of getting better drops for either crafting your legendary or making gold on Trading Post they would have implemented one.

The fractal dungeons are a good step in the direction of merit based loot rewards but they have several issues that need to be addressed, specifically disconnects and the lack of a dungeon finder system to match people of the same difficulty level with one another.

@Fuz you like to play solo at your own tempo, not in group….. why do you have problems with MF ??

I think I explained pretty clearly… I feel compelled to use it, if I want to have a chance at some decent loot or precursors (yes, I know… it’s a laughable chance. But still) and make some money to keep up in this kittened up economy (prices on TP are completely nonsense, I think it will very hard for new players to keep up).
So, I have to use MF and I can’t play the spec I want to play because I don’t have a choice on the gear.

(Anyway, I do a lot of dungeons, I just don’t like to group outside)

I believe MF should be a soloing stat. The effects are completley removed in parties/ teams. This will encourage people to stat for survive/ damage in dungeons, rather than loot.

Please no.
Either they remove it altogether (which I would prefer), or they leave it in the game.

@Fuz dungeons = gear doesnt mater if the player is bad, if he cant avoid dmg & cant properly folow the fight/manage his skills, wich is the biggest problem.
economy = items arent the big sellers but ores/base mats, they have been since the start
legendary = max profession + mistic forge + time & im not even sure that mf helps at the forge.

So why do you have problems with Mf ??

@akame actually, MF = rares/ exo = ectos

No i disagree with this, its a personal choice as to whether or not you are going to run with magic find gear and it should stay that way. A good player with magic find gear will beat an average or bad player with stat boosting gear any day of the week so it isn’t something that should ever be a problem (read bad player will be bad no matter what)

uknortherner.2670:

Sorry OP, but all I’m getting from threads like this is “There are people out there whose play styles differ from my own. This is unacceptable and simply must stop.”

Fortunately, I will continue to play this game as I see fit, rather than as some elitist on a power trip believes I should play.

So much for “no trolling”. Read the entirety of my post next time, it was literally 9 words in.
I’m no “elitist on a power trip”, I’m a guy who came from 5 years of GW1 and had zero issues with the economy or the drop rate there, and then anet spins on a dime and changes it completely to appease the elitists who would rather screw over everyone else just to get better stuff for themselves. You’ve apparently missed every single post detailing why this stat promotes greediness.

I agree with MF gear removal. Let ppl have those foods if they really want to. But ofc remove the MF gear or alternatively disable MF everywhere else than explorable pve areas. Always hate to hear ppl next to me are running dungeon in full MF gear or pvp:ing in wvw with MF gear. Jesus. At least put a big red flag on ppl who have MF boosts on so I can put them on my block list.

My ele wears MF gear and she is squishy. but I don’t run dungeons on my ele. Leveling thf for running dungeons (no Mf gear for her ) I like Mf. My ele if for farming and my thf will be for dungeons. Don’t wanna clog inventory with 2 sets of gear so that is my solution.

Really this subject is tiresome, and yet i feel the need to come here and post again and again , so Anet does not think this is a one side idea.

DONT remove the MF , it is the players choice.

Honestly , people that does not want to pay for a MF set or dont want to wear it, i dont even waste my time on hearing. Get the set , get the bonus. It is a choice. Dont like it? That is ok also, just forget the bonus , that is all that is gonna happen.

For the problem IN dungeons , i agree that maybe Anet could find a solution , it is true players should be able to pick if they want MF or not , but dungeons require a bit more planing to work and thus people should be focused on the task of finishing it.

Like always this is the simple opinion of me and others tons of people that actually like MF.

Nox Aeterna.2965:

Really this subject is tiresome, and yet i feel the need to come here and post again and again , so Anet does not think this is a one side idea.

DONT remove the MF , it is the players choice.

Honestly , people that does not want to pay for a MF set or dont want to wear it, i dont even waste my time on hearing. Get the set , get the bonus. It is a choice. Dont like it? That is ok also, just forget the bonus , that is all that is gonna happen.

For the problem IN dungeons , i agree that maybe Anet could find a solution , it is true players should be able to pick if they want MF or not , but dungeons require a bit more planing to work and thus people should be focused on the task of finishing it.

Like always this is the simple opinion of me and others tons of people that actually like MF.

I think we can agree that the problem are dungeons. In open world I dont care what ppl wear. In dungeons selfish ppl can be basicly caried by others and get better loot for it. Thats just stupid.

Malevil.2104:

I think we can agree that the problem are dungeons. In open world I dont care what ppl wear. In dungeons selfish ppl can be basicly caried by others and get better loot for it. Thats just stupid.

Precisely. So it’s pretty clear that the problem lies with specific players who make greedy choices which do not help the group, rather than with the gear that they choose.

Blueshield.6291:

Malevil.2104:

I think we can agree that the problem are dungeons. In open world I dont care what ppl wear. In dungeons selfish ppl can be basicly caried by others and get better loot for it. Thats just stupid.

Precisely. So it’s pretty clear that the problem lies with specific players who make greedy choices which do not help the group, rather than with the gear that they choose.

Problem is that they encourage players to wear subpar gear .

Pillow.3296:

@akame actually, MF = rares/ exo = ectos

Mf is good as it is , you wont get rid of bad players because you remove mf & if a player is not avoiding dmg it doesnt mater what gear he is wearing.

Still crafting matrerials sell beter

You people talk about how MF gear is much worse than other gear. But if you use Rampager’s (Precision, Power, Condition Damage) gear and don’t give many conditions that do damage (As I do for my Ranger) then switching to same tier Explorer’s (Magic Find, Power, Precision) gear is not much of a step backwards. You only lose a tiny amount of precision. This also work for people who use Power and Condition Damage or Toughness and Vitality as their main stats

/signed

Somebody should make a poll and show it to the devs or something.

The MF does not make your drops better – it makes others drops worse. Since it exists, drop tables are calculated with it in mind – which of course means that everyone without MF gets less.

Nox Aeterna.2965:

I would bet most of the players that want to remove it completely are those that dont want to spend the money on the set. Simple like that. (while ofc im sure there is a minority with other reasons.)

I have a full exotic MF set with Pirate/Traveler runes and exquisite gems. I still want MF removed because it kittens my EVERYTHING.