Guild Wars 2

For some time I hear from ppl in few guilds and in YouTube, that really money lays in TP flipping or CoF P1 speed runs. That is really true, but it also damages the game since more and more ppl log in do some flipping and goes off not playing at all and still have all they want to buy.
Instead of further punishments to players I would prefer rewarding those who really play the game.
I understand that some ppl likes trading and that makes them happy, but I think that game promotes this kind of play now, but unintended since TP was supposed to be additional way to make money not main reason and only tool for it.
All that happens because doing things across maps means nothing. Even daily tasks/achievements means nothing now for most of ppl who have all laurels ppl wanted.
I think that there should be few changes to make ppl play again instead flipping and farming.
SOLUTION
1. You should be able to do conversion experience points to gold (any way, similarly to how you can convert karma to gold), since ppl who play have a lot of xp on their characters and way to many skill points that are just there without any real use.
Event xp and hearts xp could be boosted also for this solution.
(I know this can be used against the system so read below till the end.)
2. Events farming.
Currently there is a system that gives you less and less xp/karma/gold if you repeat the same event, but ppl do loops in Arach, Southsun etc.
If you can make it also count events in each map it could be a safe way to prevent farming. If you go and actually do the map you usually won’t do more than 20 or 30 events. If ppl stop getting xp/karma/gold after for example 25 events on each map (per account a day). Loosing xp from events if you can transfer that xp to gold in efficient way would make some ppl to go for other maps, just like meta events with rare item chest.
3. Dungeons.
Ppl farm dungeons and that is ok. Everybody knows that and it makes some parts of the community angry especially when ppl acts like !@#$% in their CoF P1 warrior/mes zerg runs.
Again there should be penalty for all gold/silver/copper and drop rate if possible for doing the same dungeon over and over. Also xp penalty (per account) for finishing dungeon to prevent dung farming for xp – gold conversion.
There should also be penalty for ppl who swap characters in dungeon, since pits common now that ppl swap for alts in half of the boss fight in CoF so they can level them fast.
If killing each boss character participates in, can be used as a marker, then end reward should be based on your participation. You have fought 2nd boss 60%, last boss, 30%, but if you haven’t event touched it you have nothing etc.

I think this can be base for a system that would reward players who actually ply instead of farming. This could also scatter farmers across most of maps at least a bit and make ppl who only use TP be a bit more matched with ppl who spend real time in game.
I know there are more things that should be considered in this, but it’s a BASE. You can add some ideas for it. I really hope someone in ANet would read it and make something similar to make real players experience some love against farmers and flippers.

I’m sorry for all typos, but I made this post in a hurry.

In another game I’ve played, it worked exactly like this: Completing quests would give a character XP, but only until the character was maxed out. For max level characters, the XP reward was converted intoa gold reward.

I think there would be ways to make this work for GW2.

Keep in mind that event farming already happens (for karma), it would just be a little more rewarding. Also, dungeon farming already happens, but dungeon paths include events, so dungeon farming, too, would become a little more rewarding for players who do that anyway.

Everybody else would have additional income by simply playing the game, making events more rewarding for level 80s. Right now, if you’re going to do events, it makes mroe sense to do so on an alt (below level 80).
This change could even things out a little bit, so you play your main when you feel like playing your main, and levelling your alt when you feel like doing that, without the event XP going to waste.

Pixelpumpkin.4608:

In another game I’ve played, it worked exactly like this: Completing quests would give a character XP, but only until the character was maxed out. For max level characters, the XP reward was converted intoa gold reward.

I think there would be ways to make this work for GW2.

Keep in mind that event farming already happens (for karma), it would just be a little more rewarding. Also, dungeon farming already happens, but dungeon paths include events, so dungeon farming, too, would become a little more rewarding for players who do that anyway.

Everybody else would have additional income by simply playing the game, making events more rewarding for level 80s. Right now, if you’re going to do events, it makes mroe sense to do so on an alt (below level 80).
This change could even things out a little bit, so you play your main when you feel like playing your main, and levelling your alt when you feel like doing that, without the event XP going to waste.

If you cut events for area and dungeons on repeats it would not matter if you could benefit a little bit dungeons and karma farmers. The goal would be to make them cover more map or farm only little everyday so that normal players would be matched with their income so everyone in game would have similar money.
No it’s like this:
- flippers swim in gold,
- Cof farmers have a lot of gold
- event farmers probably a bit less than CoF farmers
- normal ppl have nothing if they don’t drop something valuable by chance and not many has that luck, so they are drown to do what above examples do and that why we have come ridiculous prices in TP. If it wasn’t for that precursors would still go for 100g max, not to mention other stuff.

On the other hand if this situation would make farmers make new characters to do hearts again it would again benefit the game in my opinion.

PLEASE give this topic a bit more atention and rate it so ther can be chance for every player in game.

Septemptus.7164:

All that happens because doing things across maps means nothing. Even daily tasks/achievements means nothing now for most of ppl who have all laurels ppl wanted.

I’m on my 2nd 100% map completion, it’s about 60% of what I do in the game and theres good money in it, specially if you kill all the mobs and gather from every node you see.

And I’d like to hear about that “all the laurels they want” thing, correct me if I’m wrong they only started showing on the monthly since February, 5 months = 50 laurels, plus the daily ones lets say ~137(?).
Thats 187 laurels you might be able to have if you happen to do it every daily (personally when I finish this monthly I’ll have little over 100 and I haven’t spent a single one since they were introduced).
With gear going from 25~40 a piece, let me ask again, how does anyone pockets as many laurels as they want? Cuz I could use a lot more.

Septemptus.7164:

You should be able to do conversion experience points to gold (any way, similarly to how you can convert karma to gold), since ppl who play have a lot of xp on their characters and way to many skill points that are just there without any real use.
Event xp and hearts xp could be boosted also for this solution.

This is all kinds of bad idea, even without a boost in xp you are asking for, and even if 100xp = 1 copper, people would be swimming around in money in no time, have you actually notice how many xp you make? Just walking and unlocking a WP is like killing 3 mobs.

Septemptus.7164:

(I know this can be used against the system so read below till the end.)

I’ve read it and I’ll stick with my opinion above. XP → Gold BAD idea.

Septemptus.7164:

Ppl farm dungeons and that is ok. Everybody knows that and it makes some parts of the community angry especially when ppl acts like !@#$% in their CoF P1 warrior/mes zerg runs.
Again there should be penalty for all gold/silver/copper and drop rate if possible for doing the same dungeon over and over. Also xp penalty (per account) for finishing dungeon to prevent dung farming for xp – gold conversion.
There should also be penalty for ppl who swap characters in dungeon, since pits common now that ppl swap for alts in half of the boss fight in CoF so they can level them fast.
If killing each boss character participates in, can be used as a marker, then end reward should be based on your participation. You have fought 2nd boss 60%, last boss, 30%, but if you haven’t event touched it you have nothing etc.

Now you’re talking, but still you missed the nail by a bit. Damage shouldn’t be the only thing counting towards fighting a boss (I know that’s not what you said) tanking is another important job, so you see there’s a lot of parameters that even with the best intentions might not make for a fair distribution.
But at the end of the day lets face it, a score system will prefer a certain thing the players do and when people figure it out they’ll just exploit it like they always do.
For example, imagine a boss will drop gold accordingly with how much damage you made. Now you know people will just bring him close to down, leave him regen then do it again and again and again, all day long, see the problem?

Personally the biggest problem I have with dungeons is rewards, CoF P1 is the most rewarding so that’s the only one people wanna do, finding people for another path and specially another dungeon is really hard.
ANET should boost the other ones, it’s not that complicated and it would at least keep things varied.

Septemptus.7164:

I think this can be base for a system that would reward players who actually ply instead of farming.

The game does reward people that play, I’ve made maybe 1000 gold since launch without any farming, I have over 400 gold between my characters right now.
You have to understand theres always gonna be places were the time/money ratio is a bit better, and obviously farmers will farm it.

But just try to complete an area (for 100% map) killing every mob and gathering everything you see to sell it and see how much money you make.
Sure in that same time period you’re likely to have made more money if you were on CoF P1, but that just adds to my point, you will get rewarded regardless, but there will always be places more rewarding were farmers gather.

Septemptus.7164:

1. You should be able to do conversion experience points to gold (any way, similarly to how you can convert karma to gold), since ppl who play have a lot of xp on their characters and way to many skill points that are just there without any real use.
Event xp and hearts xp could be boosted also for this solution.
(I know this can be used against the system so read below till the end.)

Interesting idea. Although to keep it simple to use just have a system to convert skill points to gold. Since you get skill points for leveling up it is basically the same thing, with the added bonus that you can gain skill points from those challenges in the different zones, creating a way to get some extra cash if needed as you level up, as well increasing the reward max level characters get for completing new zones.

I just don’t get how XP keeps leveling you up for no apparent reason after you hit 80, i know it can be as a part of daily achievements (level up 1 lvl) but come on there must be another reason to keep amassing those lvl’s maybe get a magic find boost for 1 hour for each time you lvl up? (stackable) or something like the paragon system used by Diablo 3 minus the stats

You assemble skill points which you can use towards your legendary.

Pixelpumpkin.4608:

You assemble skill points which you can use towards your legendary.

I wasn’t aware you kept winning Skillpoints after lvl 80 thanks for the info

This is already in place.

Mystic weapons. In a round a bout way…. xp —> skill points-→ gold

Ethics.4519:

This is already in place.

Mystic weapons. In a round a bout way…. xp —> skill points--> gold

Thats a very poor conversion and to reward ppl and make flipers and farmers equal to normal playing persons payer would need a lot more than 2-3g for hours of play…

We dont neer any more gold taps. If we had a tap like this we would need a huge gold sink to compensate, all players gain xp somehow, meaning that all players should be affected hy he new gold sink aswell, resulting in nothing that changed.
Even if we got xp to gold conversion, gold would inflate massively and your more gold would seem like more, but at the same time that piece of bread or equipment raised in price aswell.
Creating gold out of thin air doesnt make players able to buy more, It jus lets them buy more vendor items.

Keep in mind that TP flipping isnt easy, if a flipper is swimming in gold they probably wpent alot of time to learn and improve. If flipping was easy everyone would have done t and no one would profit.
Flippers also help the economy by sinking gold through listing and selling fees.

TL;DR: when creating money out of thin air, prices of all items go up, so players wont be able to buy more

Cheers,
Alissah

All this game ever does is creating gold out of thin air. Every single drop from an enemy is creating items out of thin air, which are then sold to vendors, converting them into gold.

There’s no “limited stack” of any currency in GW2 that I’m aware of – be it gold, karma, items that drop from mobs, XP, dungeon tokens, laurels. And thus, “sinks” are introduced for each of these currencies to make some of the money go away and vanish into thin air again.

So, what’s the difference? Yes, the economy would rebalance itself slightly, but that is the case with the introduction of any new currency, or any tempering with existing currencies.

The economy would reach a new balance almost immediately. Depending on the conversion rate and potentially other mechanisms (like daily caps), the new balance could be closer or further from the old balance, but it wouldn’t destroy the economy.

Afterwards the effects would stil be in place (i.e. doing events on your main would be just as worthwhile as doing them on a low level alt).

Alissah.9281:

We dont neer any more gold taps. If we had a tap like this we would need a huge gold sink to compensate, all players gain xp somehow, meaning that all players should be affected hy he new gold sink aswell, resulting in nothing that changed.
Even if we got xp to gold conversion, gold would inflate massively and your more gold would seem like more, but at the same time that piece of bread or equipment raised in price aswell.
Creating gold out of thin air doesnt make players able to buy more, It jus lets them buy more vendor items.

If price of bred goes up that’s ok as long as everyone can buy the kind of bread they want with their money.
I’m talking about making it better for normal players – YES, some ppl are still here playing making alts etc and what they get nothing… Rewards are just awful. Yes, they are better than in most MMOs, but still awful.
So ppl who play will always be pure. Sure some don’t mind that but then there goes this neat piece like molten jetpack that you think ‘I would really love to have that on my asura’, but unfortunately it can only be bought by rich ppl, so sucks to be you for not spending time on farming cause you won’t buy it if it doesn’t drop on you and we all know how we love RNG…
So I can ask you why only the rich ppl can have what they want? Sure it works like that in real world, but it doesn’t have to work like that in here.
Yesterday someone made topic why does miniatures market went so down and he seemed for me like he was almost crying. I answered that post saying – it’s FINALLY happening since normal ppl won’t buy minis for 100g+ per exotic for the collection, only those who cheat the system will do it. So now it’s finally making some sense.

Alissah.9281:

Keep in mind that TP flipping isnt easy, if a flipper is swimming in gold they probably wpent alot of time to learn and improve. If flipping was easy everyone would have done t and no one would profit.
Flippers also help the economy by sinking gold through listing and selling fees.

I personally can tell you it’s really easy (not to mention guides on the net). I have done it for a short time then I realized that it kills my fun. My fun is not something like being rich in a game, but playing and having fun with others. Then that is why I have 8 characters at lvl 80 for each class, and each of them have at least 60% of the map, cause it was fun, but how long can you move through almost empty locations and doing things only solo?!
I didn’t bought single player game…
I still remember when I was constantly in overflow cause map was so full. I miss those days even thou it was laggy and had it’s problems.
People stick to dungeons with gw2lfg.com and 75% of that are CoFs (for farming) and fractals cause ppl have nothing better to do.
Making maps means nothing. Yes, those wonderful maps, that I love, they look so nice, they feel so nice. Almost no one sees them anymore cause that doesn’t make you rich. Then let ppl become rich in there…
Being social means nothing. Just enter CoF, shut up and do it in 6min cause ppl need to feel their greed…
Let’s make peoples effort worth something finally.
Not random 2 items with chance for RNG black lion chest for doing the map…

Alissah.9281:

Flippers also help the economy by sinking gold through listing and selling fees.

TL;DR: when creating money out of thin air, prices of all items go up, so players wont be able to buy more

You are right that the prices of non-vendor items will go up. However, the purchasing power of players who actively play and earn exp will increase relative to those who don’t. Not to say that this is a good idea though. CoF path 1 farmers will be earning even more gold with the exp conversion and the number of CoF farmers are huge compared to tp flippers. The small number of tp flippers are nerf, the CoF farmers are buffed, over all I think its still a lose to the average player.

About this idea that tp flippers are helping the economy by sinking gold, as I posted in another thread, this activity only players who create alot of gold, eg, CoF farmers. Players create both gold, mobs drops and harvested materials as they play. By sinking gold and keeping gold’s value high, the value of mob drops and harvested materials are lowered hurting the players who produce those.

I don’t understand why flippers want to earn a profit and feel they are doing a good deed to the economy at the same time, and even worst, try to convince others that they are.

Cymric.7368:

Alissah.9281:

Flippers also help the economy by sinking gold through listing and selling fees.

TL;DR: when creating money out of thin air, prices of all items go up, so players wont be able to buy more

You are right that the prices of non-vendor items will go up. However, the purchasing power of players who actively play and earn exp will increase relative to those who don’t. Not to say that this is a good idea though. CoF path 1 farmers will be earning even more gold with the exp conversion and the number of CoF farmers are huge compared to tp flippers. The small number of tp flippers are nerf, the CoF farmers are buffed, over all I think its still a lose to the average player.

If you would have readied my fist post you would have known I for a lot of penalties for dungeons since I thought about it and I know how to abuse changes that I asked for. All information’s are in first post. It really would work if done right.
Also it would stop the most stupidest way to level alts – end boss entry.

Also adding real reward for compleeting whole map (read this post: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/Gifts-of-Exploration-1/first ) would also help the idea I have shown xp(SP) → gold conversion

Pixelpumpkin.4608:

All this game ever does is creating gold out of thin air. Every single drop from an enemy is creating items out of thin air, which are then sold to vendors, converting them into gold.

Thats not really correct. Most loot you sell to NPCs are not really worth much. You can play for 3-4 hours and make maybe 50s with that stuff. The most money you can make is with selling crafting mats over the TP and with that the game always removes 15% of the money. So you find maybe a T6 mat that is worth 1s or whatever at the NPC, but you sell it for 30s at the TP and so there is mystically 4,5s less in the game.

Beldin.5498:

Pixelpumpkin.4608:

All this game ever does is creating gold out of thin air. Every single drop from an enemy is creating items out of thin air, which are then sold to vendors, converting them into gold.

Thats not really correct. Most loot you sell to NPCs are not really worth much. You can play for 3-4 hours and make maybe 50s with that stuff. The most money you can make is with selling crafting mats over the TP and with that the game always removes 15% of the money. So you find maybe a T6 mat that is worth 1s or whatever at the NPC, but you sell it for 30s at the TP and so there is mystically 4,5s less in the game.

Yes, 15% transaction fee, but that DOES leave 85% of the money more in the game, so no, my statement was not incorrect.

Pixelpumpkin.4608:

Beldin.5498:

Pixelpumpkin.4608:

All this game ever does is creating gold out of thin air. Every single drop from an enemy is creating items out of thin air, which are then sold to vendors, converting them into gold.

Thats not really correct. Most loot you sell to NPCs are not really worth much. You can play for 3-4 hours and make maybe 50s with that stuff. The most money you can make is with selling crafting mats over the TP and with that the game always removes 15% of the money. So you find maybe a T6 mat that is worth 1s or whatever at the NPC, but you sell it for 30s at the TP and so there is mystically 4,5s less in the game.

Yes, 15% transaction fee, but that DOES leave 85% of the money more in the game, so no, my statement was not incorrect.

Not really. You see even if the item is traded and not sold, it’s still the item and not money. So basicly if you trade on TP no gold is created ever. It simply exchanges the owner, and no matter how much it is worth on the TP,in reality it is still worth as much as the vendor would give for it. The money is only created via: selling to vendors (it does not matter who sells the item), dinamic events, dungeons, direct money drops from mobs, map completions and porbably a few things I couldn’t think of.

I like a lot of the ideas you guys posted above, including your original post Septemptus. Rather than commenting on them individually, I’ll just throw out a bunch of blanket statements lol.

Based on what I’ve learned about economics and market patterns, I think it’s safe for me to say that while GW2 has a virtual market, it very much follows the same basic rules of a real one.

Overall, it sounds like you want to implement rules and rewards that benefit those who play a wide variety of characters in a wide variety of situations the MOST. From a game enjoyment standpoint, that’d be fantastic. However, I sadly don’t think it’s realistic. As some others have said, in any game, there are the casual players, those who seek out many different adventures like yourself, and the hardcore grinders or moneymakers. Personally, I think a GREAT game should provide all of the above with opportunities to enjoy the game as much as possible, which would obviously vary from person to person. If someone has fun flipping items via the trade post to make tons of cash, I don’t see anything inherently wrong with that. At the same time, someone who only plays an hour a day, or less, can’t expect to find too many get-rich-quick schemes at their disposal. It’s those in the middle that need more options for making money, if they so choose.

I see many, many methods of doing so, but here are some ideas:

Provide an additional set of more specialized Daily rewards, that would give FAR greater monetary bonuses than the main one, or give some kind of token system like laurels that let you buy account-bound things ONLY in that way. I’m thinking like if you open a certain set of world chests that day, or finish all 3 explorable paths in a specific dungeon, or maybe something WvW related too. These could all be on rotation, like the Zaishen quests in GW1.

On the same note, I think the current Monthly achievements are way too easy, and don’t give a substantial reward whatsoever. That should definitely change.

The other option is to make more things token-based instead of straight money. I don’t think you should be able to just buy a legendary, or even a semi-legendary. There are also certain mystic forge recipes that are pretty much guaranteed profit in massive quantities, which furthers your complaint.