Guild Wars 2

This is an examination of the sister classes when compared to the Engineer (I play all three only in PVE BTW) Please refrain from turning this thread into a “engineers are fine what are you talking about” thread. We all know they are not, and the items listed below are how I believe they can improve the class overall.

Traits are the largest problem imo. Traits exist for Thieves and Rangers that simply don’t exist for Engineers adding to the problems Engineers face.

General Improvements for the Engineers Traits

First let’s move some things around to make it easier to trait.

1. Critical Damage —> Firearms
2. Condition Damage —> Explosives
3. Condition Duration —> Tools

The minor traits (those that are never chosen are very much different for the engineer then they are for the thief and ranger).

1. Example: Opening strike/Serpents Touch. Both damaging affects. Engineer gets stuck with Evasive powder keg. While fun, this trait is impractical and weak.
2. Example: Alpha Training/Lotus Poison vs Reserve Mines. Again engineer must use a defensive ability. One that doesn’t directly improve anything nor is it useful while attacking. Doesn’t improve overall damage output in the slightest.
3. Example: Precise Strike/Exposed Weakness vs Steel-Packed Powder. We finally see a slight improvement on the engineer tree but it only inflicts vulnerability. Vuln doesn’t function the same way it used to at launch and many have stated that it’s basically a waste of time trying to trait for this. What we need is a direct damage bonus like 10%.

Traits that should be added which are missing

Better Damage Bonuses – As I mentioned before, there are clear differences between the kind of bonuses to damage Engineers enjoy and those enjoyed by the sister classes. The bonuses for engineers are not only lower, they require special conditions to activate. For example: Empowering Adrenaline, get a 5% damage bonus when endurance is not full. This to me should be more like Dagger Training which has no restrictions. Some might argue that it’s more like Steady Focus, however what they fail to realize is that every bow in the game gives the ranger and thief dodge abilities so they don’t have to use their endurance and can thus keep their bonus. These naysayers will also fail to realize that Rangers get a 10% bonus while Engineers get a 5% bonus. Something here is not like the other.

Some might argue that Engineers have plenty of bonuses, I’m sorry but they’re wrong. The class does have bonuses to damage however, there is a dramatically lower initial damage output, and hardly any direct damage bonuses after the 50% mark. For example: some will argue that Target the maimed is plenty, however 5% hardly matches 10% and also must contend with a single condition damage, whereas Exposed Weakness gives it’s benefits no matter the condition. Last I checked that improves it’s chances of activating.

Some would say we should continue to use the toolbelt skills and allow these bonuses to continue to slip thru our fingers or let them be turned off in certain situations while the other two sister classes enjoy their bonuses without restrictions. I say no, it should be a completely level playing field. Engineers should have a bonus to initial damage like the sister classes.

A similar problem exists not just for burst damage builds but also for condition builds. Other classes have a non-tooltipped initial burst of damage from using skills that are designed to apply conditions that the engineer doesn’t see. You can easily see this by making a trap ranger or a Staff Mark Necro and using their skills recording them side by side with the engineer and playing the video back. There’s an initial damage output of these skills BEFORE the conditions start ticking. I’ve yet to find traits that do this on my Ranger’s traits it just occurs.

A Better Might builder – There is no engineer equivolent in the firearms or Explosives line that matches Beastmasters Might in the ranger’s line or that matches Venomous Strength in the thief’s line. Either this needs to be revamped to allow the ability to go off when drinking an elixir/using a kit combined in the same trait and moved to the Explosives or Firearms lines or there needs to be another condition from using a typical engineer ability.

Thieves and Rangers enjoy the ability to increase their damage at the beginning of the attack causing the enemy to reach 50% hitpoints rather quickly. Engineers must wait for the enemy to cause the engineer to reach 75% hitpoints before using Elixir B before receiving any of the same benefits. This needs to change. Thief/Ranger abilities combine multiple traits to add multiple stacks of might while fighting. Such as the combination of Venomous Strength Signets of Power Thrill of the Crime uses common thief abilities to charge up and easily increase might without much prep time or down time. There is no such setup for engineers.

I would suggest that engineers be given similar traits that allow for certain abilities to charge up might. Throwing potions was fun in beta, but let’s take Engineers out of the beta stage and improve them to match the sister classes. For example, Let’s keep the potion might thing but make it more available in the VII-X slots in one of the damage trait lines instead of the end of the defensive line maybe even in the I-VI of the Inventions line? And let’s add two more, 3 might when activating a kit, and 2 might when using a gadget to two other lines. This would spread out the might building to allow for more versatility. Engineers are the princesses of versatility you see.

Quickness – Other abilities that Thieves/Rangers enjoy is the ability to activate a short quickness burst. Rangers can do this manually by switching pets when traited. Thieves do this periodically while critting when traited. Engineers have no such trait. 10% chance to get quickness (2s) on a critical hit. (30 second cooldown) would significantly improve the attack speed problems we see with both pistols and rifles #1 auto attack.

Extra Damage traits – we despirately need something similar to the Thief’s Executioner trait “deal 20% extra damage when target is below 50% health” and place this in the grandmaster section of the Firearms line. Engineers have the lowest direct-increase-to-damage-increase traits out of the three should be redone. 5% here and there under often not seen or completely useless conditional experimentation doesn’t really improve the damage output, it simply causes one to be turned off for another. (IE 5% when endurance is full. 5% when the endurance is not full) Some might argue that the Ranger doesn’t have a 20% bonus to damage, AHH but it does. By choosing traits that dramatically increase the pet’s damage output it can easily match that.

you fail to see the engineer ability to be like 4 different type. We have so much kits I personally play potion support throwing em to support using pistols and using potion X after all my buffs are on to provide awsome Knockback(es) so that my team can gain better and i have a immobile trait to cause 5 pt of vulnerable If i see a melee type boss i will use net turret with rocket turrets to make sure i can do lots damg and provide tht 5-15 pt of it that what en extra 5-15% damg boost to your entire party again ur ENTIRE party no other class can stack that much hell you can add 10 more pt with the goggles. That isnt even adding in the damg combo finishers that other class will provide. oh and our ability to stack bleed is awsome.

in arena nets quest to give us diversity they denied us synergy.

the only synergy we really have is getting vigor when we gain swiftness, and in terms of fighting (particularly in a group setting) this is of questionable usefulness

How are you playing your engineer? How often do you play engineer? I’m a little confused, because you say things like “Engineers have no such trait [quickness]” when you can gain swiftness everytime you switch to a kit. And it’s hard to think of a better might builder then Juggernaut, where might stacks as long as your using a flamethrower. So you can run around with a flamethrower stacking might in between battles without even doing anything. And then there’s the HGH “all elixirs give might,” if your not a fan of kits.

I can understand you wanting to move might to earlier traits I guess, but with traits like “kits gain regeneration,” you can have the passive regeneration many other classes have without using a utility slot. I run 2 kits (not including med kit) along with my pistol/shield, and that essentially allows me to swtich between 3 weapons with no cooldown, and the condition damage and cc is amazing. My ranger doesn’t have nearly the aresenal or versatility that my engineer has.

Of course Engineers aren’t going to have the burst damage that Necro has, they dont’ have the aoe necro has either. (Calling a trap “burst damage” is a bit of a stretch.) Engineers aren’t cannons, they use conditions and cc. When I’m fighting, my opponents keep bleeds, burns, poisens, vulnerablities, etc. They fly all over the map, they stay crippled, blinded, and dazed.

Engineers use a different style of play from the other medium armor classes, that should be evident from the limited weapon selection if nothing else. You can’t spam like a ranger with a bow and expect to get all those conditions you seem to want. (Well, you can spam with a bunch of potions if you want.) Try a build with kits. It may take a while to learn (imagine, having to actually learn to play a profession?), but it’ll spoil you to the point you won’t want the weapon-swapping cooldowns from all the other professions. I use elixir gun/flamethrower/med kit, and I don’t really need my other utility. (Mines for knockback PvE, Elixir S PvP/WvW). You can’t design your own traits, and the traits that are there are fine.

I may link you some videos about an engineer One Shotting (yea, from 100% hp to down mode) people in WvW ?
Or the same guy doing perma 3/6k crit at 1200 range ?
Well let’s do that : http://www.youtube.com/user/HAiMaiNeIm?feature=g-hist

JazzAnarchy.2783:

I’m a little confused, because you say things like “Engineers have no such trait [quickness]” when you can gain swiftness everytime you switch to a kit.

Quickness =/= Swiftness.
Swiftness = 33% movement speed increase.
Quickness = All actions are performed 100% faster.

Most classes dont have quickness

I run a bomber/nade power/crit engineer in wvw as alt
And i think my damage is oke because i also have lots of CC and movement speed.
In groups i can solo stack up more then 10 vurnability stacks on everyone around me.
So thats for every ally attacking these enemies 10% extra damage.

What i am missing is a bit lack of survivabillity when using the bomb kit (since it is a close target kinda weapon → the heals are to small)
And the lack of stabillity (to long timer to be usefull in large battles)

Dutchares.6084:

Most classes dont have quickness

Actually, most classes have Quickness, but only 3 have traits that provide it (Theif, Ranger and Warrior).

Thief – Haste (4 seconds) and Critical Haste (2 Seconds)
Ranger – Quickening Zephyr (4 seconds) and Zephyr’s Speed (2 seconds)
Warrior – Frenzy (4 seconds) and Last Chance (4 seconds)
Mesmer – Time Warp (10 second field, provides 11 seconds of Quickness)
Guardian – Zealot’s Fervor (3 seconds)
Engineer – Elixir U (5 seconds)

As it stands, Engineers get the highest duration to cooldown ratio of a skill (Especially as they can reduce the cooldown of the skill by 20%) but it’s riskier to use than others as the downside of using it is random which disallows setting it up.

Taril.8619:

Dutchares.6084:

Most classes dont have quickness

Actually, most classes have Quickness, but only 3 have traits that provide it (Theif, Ranger and Warrior).

Thief – Haste (4 seconds) and Critical Haste (2 Seconds)
Ranger – Quickening Zephyr (4 seconds) and Zephyr’s Speed (2 seconds)
Warrior – Frenzy (4 seconds) and Last Chance (4 seconds)
Mesmer – Time Warp (10 second field, provides 11 seconds of Quickness)
Guardian – Zealot’s Fervor (3 seconds)
Engineer – Elixir U (5 seconds)

As it stands, Engineers get the highest duration to cooldown ratio of a skill (Especially as they can reduce the cooldown of the skill by 20%) but it’s riskier to use than others as the downside of using it is random which disallows setting it up.

yeah maybe the real problem is becuase we have lesser utility slots , because of the tool kits we have lesser stuff like that..
I run 2 tool kits (nade for range and bomb for melee range(main), using the rifle for long range CC) so only 1 slot i have to choose between one of the elixers