Guild Wars 2

== Problem ==
This topic got me thinking:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/players/Selling-a-Precursor-The-Hunter

It shows in my opinion that the current system of the listing fee on the trade post is broken when it is limiting poor people to make money.

The listing fee is an amount of money you have to pay to list items on the trade post. This is done to prevent people to make bogus trades or use the TP as storage. (put an item on the TP for 10 times the normal price so it is out of your inventory and you cant pick it up later)

The amount is 5% of the value. if you for example get the precursor dawn you can make a lot of profit on the market. Currently it sells for 515 gold. The listing fee however is 5%. So you actually need 25g75s to be able to sell it. This is for many people a steep price. Besides the listing fee you also have a tax (10%).

Both the listing fee as the tax have the function as a goldpit. Every MMO need several goldpits to keep the game economy from inflation and its actually a good thing. Still it should always be possible for poor players who got lucky to sell on the market what they want to sell for the price that it is worth.

== Suggestions ==
1: Remove the listing fee of 5%
2: Raise the tax to 15%
3: Add a penalty to the removal option of 5%. If you want to take an item your selling off the market you have to pay 5% of the price you where asking.
4: Add a warning if you put something up thats worth more then 20 times what you currently have saying something like: ’ Listing this item means that you can’t remove it again from the market with your current funding. The remove penalty is (insert amount of money). Are you sure you want to continue?? Yes – No.’

== Effects==
This suggestion doesn’t really change anything. You still have the money sink, you still can’t use the trade post as a free storage, but it does allow poor people to make a profit if they have a lucky drop

I simply love this!

This suggestion would change alot for me… Im a day flipper and this would make it unescesary hard to make money. Example: i order 100 items for 80 copper each and i plan to sell them at 100, with 10 copper profit per trade. The next day, i need to pick up atleast 33,33333 items to have 0profit, if i pick up any less items and and cancel my oter orders, i lose money. In the current tp i would still make 33*10=330 copper profit, but with your suggestion i actually lose money… I would realize getting any profit on the tp is now muh harder, even too hard compared to he profit i can or can not get out of it and i would probably quit, resulting in less trafic in the economy, and that is always bad :/.
Usually i place more buy orders than i can actually buy in 1 day, this is so i dont lose out on money by missing potential sellers, id say this is the safe way of doing it. Your new suggestion would actually punish me for playing it safe. If i order too much i will make less money, if i order too less i will lose out on money, so the whole tp game suddenly got a lot less attractive and complicated, remoing all the good things about day trading.
I’m sorry for the huge wall of text and if i offended you, this is just my way of saying no, i guess
Edit: i forgot to mention that gold would inflate, because much less people will play he market.
Also, if you or your friend doesn have enough money to pay the listing fee, simply borrow he listig fee money from someone and give it back when the item sells

To make it short, for flippers:

Before:
- you pay 5% when you put on the TP
- you get taxed 10% when you sell
- you pay 0% when you cancel your sale

After:
- you pay 0% when you put on the TP
- you get taxed 15% when you sell
- you pay 5% when you cancel your sale

You still do not get taxed when you buy.

I fail to understand the problem you explained, Alissah.

I’m sorry for being unclear there.. Ill try to keep t short this time
Today: order 100 items
Tomorrow: pick up a fraction of the items i ordered, cancel the rest, place new orders with monry gained from cancelling, sell the items i bought.
Day after tomorrow: pick up trade profit and bought items, place new orders and sell etc, cancel old buy orders
The text in bold is no longer optimal after this suggestion, because you lose 5% money that normally wouldnt be there.
Day trading is the easiest kind of trading for me, because i can order the same tems each day, if i order too muh i can sinply cancel them.
Note: prices are always changing so i cant leave old buy orders open, they will get overcut.
Example: after several days without canceling any orders, i have 22 ordered for 100copper, 3 ordered for 106C, 85 ordered for 121C, etc.
Thats why canceling old buy orders is daily routine for me, those overcut buy orders wont do any good, if i cancel them ican invest the money somewhere else(the next day).
I hope ts more clear now… I wont be posting any more for a while because im at work with only 5% battery life left.

TL;DR: makes learnig and impoving on TP harder, adds much more risk, bad idea

Edit: that wasnt short at all

Alissah, do you know that you will have those 5% money since you didn’t spend them in the first place?

Ok, I understand that it adds “budgetting” to the list of actions to be performed by a TP flipper. But I don’t care because I hate that people can flip like you do (I don’t hate you, don’t misread please ). Maybe that’ll force some TP flippers to actually go in the wild and earn some money instead of taking it from people who do.

@ Alissah.9281
I don’t see your problem. Both the tax as the listing fee are based per item.

So in the current situation you put 100 items up the market for 1 silver each
You pay for every item a listing fee of 5% so 5 copper. In total you pay 5 silver to put those 100 items on the market. You sell e.g. 9 of them and then decide to take the other 91 off the market.
This means you get 9 silver-10% tax is 8 silver 10 copper. So total profit is 3 silver and 10 copper.

In my suggestion:
again 100 items for 1 silver each. You dont have to pay a thing to list them. Again you sell 9 and take the other 91 off the market.
You pay a penalty of 5% for taking the 91 items 4s55c off the market. Over the 9 sold items you pay 15% tax (1s,35 copper) so you recieve 7s65copper. Total profit 3s10 copper.

There is absolutly no difference in the profit all you have to do is not spent your initial listing fee. btw. Arenanet desinged this game to be played. A flipper is making money over the stupidity of other players. I’m not qualifying that as bad or good, just as a way of making money in the game that the game has never been designed for.

mercury ranique.2170:

== Suggestions ==
1: Remove the listing fee of 5%
2: Raise the tax to 15%
3: Add a penalty to the removal option of 5%. If you want to take an item your selling off the market you have to pay 5% of the price you where asking.

Im sorry, i read that wrong. it was at work… and on my mobile… on a really dark screen.. and i was really stressed… i thought you typed "add a penalty to teh removal option of 5%, if you want to take an item your BUYING off the market, you have to pay 5% of the price you were ordering.
im so sorry :’(.

if what i thought you said was true:
i order 100 items for 1 silver each (total 100silver).
the next day i only pick up 50 items, the other 50 i ordered got undercut so i ahve to cancel them (fee: 2.5 silver), i sell my 50 items that bought for 1S, 30C (fee: 9S, 75C).
profit=50*130-50*100-975-250= 2S 75C
the bold numbers are all added costs if what i read was really happening… thats why i was concerned.. i thought you meant a tax for cancelling buy orders, it would add risk for even the average tp user: normally they would place a buy order and get gear/crafting mats cheaper than if theyd buy instantly, but with that suggestion they would be punished for ordering for a wrong price.
thats why i was concerned, and now im ashamed of myself for not reading it right.
if you dont mind, im going to play some now and see if i can still enjoy my free time.

bye,
alissah

This would be pretty nice, especially for poor players who get lucky with the drop of a high ticket item.

There’s only one potential issue I see with this. If someone happens to list an item for a value that won’t sell, they may not be able retrieve the item due to a lack of gold.

Coldin.2840:

This would be pretty nice, especially for poor players who get lucky with the drop of a high ticket item.

There’s only one potential issue I see with this. If someone happens to list an item for a value that won’t sell, they may not be able retrieve the item due to a lack of gold.

Very true, but people use the TP allready as alternate emergency storage. If you would remove the fee completely the result would be that everyone would use it for storage, really cluttering up the system with bogus offers.

Thats why I propose the the warning to those players. And considering that poor players dont put a legendary one sale, the max amount of penalty to get an item of would be 30 gols. This is indeed steep, but doable to farm.

Alissah.9281:

mercury ranique.2170:

== Suggestions ==
1: Remove the listing fee of 5%
2: Raise the tax to 15%
3: Add a penalty to the removal option of 5%. If you want to take an item your selling off the market you have to pay 5% of the price you where asking.

Im sorry, i read that wrong. it was at work… and on my mobile… on a really dark screen.. and i was really stressed… i thought you typed "add a penalty to teh removal option of 5%, if you want to take an item your BUYING off the market, you have to pay 5% of the price you were ordering.
im so sorry :’(.

if what i thought you said was true:
i order 100 items for 1 silver each (total 100silver).
the next day i only pick up 50 items, the other 50 i ordered got undercut so i ahve to cancel them (fee: 2.5 silver), i sell my 50 items that bought for 1S, 30C (fee: 9S, 75C).
profit=50*130-50*100-975-250= 2S 75C
the bold numbers are all added costs if what i read was really happening… thats why i was concerned.. i thought you meant a tax for cancelling buy orders, it would add risk for even the average tp user: normally they would place a buy order and get gear/crafting mats cheaper than if theyd buy instantly, but with that suggestion they would be punished for ordering for a wrong price.
thats why i was concerned, and now im ashamed of myself for not reading it right.
if you dont mind, im going to play some now and see if i can still enjoy my free time.

bye,
alissah

No problem. I’m glad you got re-assured. This is only for sellers. For buyers I dont want to change a thing.

People want their items back and sell it cheaper…Then they cant, because they are 2 low at money….now they have to save their money to get back an item which is worth much more…They cant get it back, they get mad, after 2 days they have enough money to get it back, but the price is only 10% of it was before… qq much

U cant react fast, you are depended on your money in your pocket all the time when you sell something…

Same with your precursor example….imagine the dawnseller choses a very bad day to sell a precursor, after him 20 new precursors appear with a lower price, it would take probably very long to sell it but he doesnt want to wait, he rather would pick a buyorder than wait months….but he cant…he cant list it cheaper and cant get it back …
a poor player with a precursor and he cant sell it, yeaa, nothing new

But I really want something like a warning system, if the fee gets really big more than 10g or something it should ask you again, if u are sure to pay so much….sometimes people missclick silver and gold or wrong numbers or wrong buyorders and then they lose a lot

Demigott.4150:

People want their items back and sell it cheaper…Then they cant, because they are 2 low at money….now they have to save their money to get back an item which is worth much more…They cant get it back, they get mad, after 2 days they have enough money to get it back, but the price is only 10% of it was before… qq much

U cant react fast, you are depended on your money in your pocket all the time when you sell something…

Same with your precursor example….imagine the dawnseller choses a very bad day to sell a precursor, after him 20 new precursors appear with a lower price, it would take probably very long to sell it but he doesnt want to wait, he rather would pick a buyorder than wait months….but he cant…he cant list it cheaper and cant get it back …
a poor player with a precursor and he cant sell it, yeaa, nothing new

But I really want something like a warning system, if the fee gets really big more than 10g or something it should ask you again, if u are sure to pay so much….sometimes people missclick silver and gold or wrong numbers or wrong buyorders and then they lose a lot

Please read again what I’m saying. This only goes for people who dont have money to list things. If you can’t take it off when listing you will get a warning. It replaces the listing fee. So those who could list it before can still unlist it and relist it.

I would also like to point out that this is only a real problem with very valuable items.
I think that for most characters, having 1 gold isnt a problem. This means you can list and unlist things up to 20 gold (both in the current situation and the suggested situation). I have never been lucky on drops myself and the most valuable thing I have ever sold was 15 gold.

Still I only see how this benifits players with more gold more than players with less gold.
For me its way more important “when” u sell something than " for how much" , even if they have enough g at the start, they could buy something and then they cant get it back and there will be no warning for them then…

It doesnt have to be 1 item that is 20g worth …it can be a stack that is 20g worth…its the same, u cant split a stack you are currently selling and take half of it back

If there only would be banks, credits, negative money means negative social status ingame, then u have to pay higher merchant prices ahahah that would be funny …..

Demigott.4150:

Still I only see how this benifits players with more gold more than players with less gold.
For me its way more important “when” u sell something than " for how much" , even if they have enough g at the start, they could buy something and then they cant get it back and there will be no warning for them then…

It doesnt have to be 1 item that is 20g worth …it can be a stack that is 20g worth…its the same, u cant split a stack you are currently selling and take half of it back

If there only would be banks, credits, negative money means negative social status ingame, then u have to pay higher merchant prices ahahah that would be funny …..

The problem at the moment is that people can’t even sell things. Yes it takes a little bit of planning (can you afford to take the item listed off??), but whatever you could now list you can remove when my proposal goes through. The only difference is the moment the listing fee is taken so that someone who got lucky can actually use the trading post.

Some scammers are even using this problem by claiming they got dusk and can’t sell it on the TP. They got the victum to sent them the money and they never send dusk. This is what I want to fix.

I wouldn’t mind seeing a maximum listing fee as well. Several gold just to list a valuable item is absurd.

Listing Fee is necessary for Trade Post because it curves the undercutter/relisters, but this suggestion is fine because it enforces the listing fee if you prematurely remove the listed item.

What I mean by the undercutter/relisters as an example…

Berserker Pearl Carver listed at 5g15s50c
next person put it up for 5g15s49c
now the seller prior removes his and relists it at 5g15s48c

now the relister suffers a 20% total tax.. if he gets undercut again and then relists again he will suffer a 25% tax… This is a necessary mechanic.

Anyone that does not understand, listing fee is an insurance for items to maintain their value because the listing fee helps prevent undercutters from driving the item’s value into the dirt.

That makes sense, you are correct. Still, some of these listing fees are getting absurd. I do wish there was some sort of limit to how expensive some of these listing fees can get. Or maybe they simply need to tone down the calculation above certain numbers.