Guild Wars 2

Dungeons are already hard enough without the annoyance of not being able to waypoint rez while party is in combat .. enough nonsense already !

They used to have this, but apparently ANet has a issue with ppl not having a full wipe in dungeons.

They had an issue with people just zerg res rushing a boss they found hard. Dungeons are supposed to be hard, its end game!

There is a point where hard just becomes futile. Personally I agree with the op. It is a game after all; and its no fun to lay 10 min on your back while your friends battle someting short handed or worse get killed trying to rez you.

There is a possible solution to this problem. Make it so you have a limited number of waypoints you can do while in combat, such as 3. Once those are reached, you cannot waypoint anymore while the party is in combat. Too bad that’s probably a coding nightmare…

Or a 3 min period of WP downtime before you can enter the fight again

Disagree.

It’d just trivialise the content.

Dungeons should be challenging and require a team effort. Not encourage zerging.

Dungeons should focus on learning the mechanics and approaching the bosses in smart ways, not just waypoint zerging a boss.

Though I would like them to add an ally camera view when you die, so there’s more to watch than just a floor (and would give you a better look at the mechanics if you go down fast).

Forgive me .. im lost on the zerging the dungeon aspect .
Just to clarify my position a little bit better, let me describe the scenario I was involved in when this suggestion became my axe to grind. Four of my fellow guildies partook in a dungeon an more or less wiped several times. I agree beyond the shadow of any doubt that all dungeons should be ruff an tuff an downright abusive to the players that attempt them (WITHIN REASON ) . The problem though is that when a player goes down in the most difficult area of the fight and the team more or less crumbles do to lack of dps/heals/common sense- All the effort is lost as the boss heals up an the waypointed team makes a demoralized climb back to the fight. to watch a fight from the downed/dead standpoint makes no sense to me nor will it ever. Now remember this argument is coming from players who are trying to play the game straight . (without the zerg effort). At the very least if this is the mechanic they choose to stand behind , Might I suggest maybe instead of a party wipe , That a timer be put in place. It could stand to reason that a countdown mechanic take affect.. Say 1 min an 30s to get back into the fight. Its still insane but i’m willin to compromise . Now can you?

Ethan Mccloud.3218:

Forgive me .. im lost on the zerging the dungeon aspect .
Just to clarify my position a little bit better, let me describe the scenario I was involved in when this suggestion became my axe to grind. Four of my fellow guildies partook in a dungeon an more or less wiped several times. I agree beyond the shadow of any doubt that all dungeons should be ruff an tuff an downright abusive to the players that attempt them (WITHIN REASON ) . The problem though is that when a player goes down in the most difficult area of the fight and the team more or less crumbles do to lack of dps/heals/common sense- All the effort is lost as the boss heals up an the waypointed team makes a demoralized climb back to the fight. to watch a fight from the downed/dead standpoint makes no sense to me nor will it ever. Now remember this argument is coming from players who are trying to play the game straight . (without the zerg effort). At the very least if this is the mechanic they choose to stand behind , Might I suggest maybe instead of a party wipe , That a timer be put in place. It could stand to reason that a countdown mechanic take affect.. Say 1 min an 30s to get back into the fight. Its still insane but i’m willin to compromise . Now can you?

Well here’s the thing. They actually did have waypoint rezzing in combat when GW2 was 1st released. However, Anet found that a lot of groups would simply approach the dungeon in a way that didn’t look at death as a real threat; 2-3 people would die, immediately run back to their party members and rejoin the fight as if their deaths didn’t really matter at all (though some dungeons did have really long runs back to try and counteract this and I wish that they would add more WPs since this problem has been resolved).

I know it can be annoying to put a lot of effort into a fight only to have one person die, which then causes a domino effect and eventually a loss of 10-15 minutes, but it really is necessary to prevent zerging. Now that doesn’t mean I completely disagree with what you are trying to state. Personally I would rather have shorter, mechanic heavy fights which don’t take to long and gives you multiple attempts to try and wrap your mind around what the best way to win is (an example of this might be the Frizz fight in the AR dungeon), rather than drawn-out fights that repeat the same pattern and are unforgiving after 1 person’s mistake (an example of this might be the Mai fight in the AR dungeon, which actually would be a great fight if it was 1/2 as long). This isn’t to say that long-fights are always bad, Lupicus is my favorite GW2 boss. Just that if the fight is going to take a long time their should be distinct phase changes that don’t repeat constantly.

I’m not sure how well your compromised solution would work, however, off the top of my head I can’t think of many MMO’s (only ones I can think of are the ones I don’t play that my roomate plays on-off) that allow people to run back to the boss and engage him again after dying to him already (not counting things like other players rezzing), and I think the key reason for this is that it can harm doing the dungeon the correct way.

While I understand the frustration, there is already a second chance mechanic if you use it; The Downed State.

You get 4 chances when in the Downed state to get Rallied / Rally teammates before going into the Defeated state straight away, so I’m not sure why you’d be ‘watching’ from Downed when you have abilities to raise yourself back up and / or help your team-mates get you back up. Try to save your CC for these situations so you can knock the boss off of the downed player while 2 others res the Downed player.

If you do have a timer, you would still have an issue you brought up; lack of DPS / support. 1 min 30 is a long time and this issue would still affect you, while on the other hand, having the timer too short would completely negate the need to survive since you could just jump back in whenever.

1. Build your team around each other to cover each others weak points and so you aren’t overlapping in anything (for example, there isn’t any point bringing 2 people who apply Bleeding because of the way it works, everyone bringing condition removal to a fight that that hardly uses conditions, or Stability to a fight that has no CC). Although the game doesn’t actually give strict roles, there isn’t anything to stop you creating your own.

2. If you’re having trouble, don’t go glass cannon until you got the fight down to a tee. Bring one or two support skills (condition removal, defensive boons [protection / aegis / stability]) to benefit yourself and the party. On the opposite note, Weakness is your friend.

Agree! I recently completed the Arah dungeon and about halfway through I was feared completely off the edge of the map, fell forever, then way placed on the airship of all places, directly next to the waypoint. So for 15 minutes I could do nothing but stare at the NPCs on board that were apparently useless to help me. One of my party mates even tried to come revive me but couldn’t get on board the airship. Felt pretty useless and stupid just waiting there for the party to be out of combat. Once I could revive, I was even able to get a chest that I had done little work to achieve! Doesn’t seem to be the point if you ask me…

This happened so long ago… why are you bringing this up now? It prevents parties from pulling encounters to waypoints and just insta reviving over and over or running on the ones that you can’t manipulate into following you to a waypoint. You can actually still manage to hold aggro on several bosses while out of combat with ur team running back….

Well, I grew accostum to the “new” system. It’s to prevent zerging – as said before multiple times. But simply implementing it the way it currently is, is too harsh.

• Make it easier to go out of combat. In some cases you need to walk 2 mins and so on.
• Make reviving dead players 50% faster (in dungeons). Encourage us to try reviving, even as last man standing.
• Make some waypoints. Most dungeons/ paths lack alot of those. You really want us to farm CoF1, don’t you?
• If you wipe on a boss, make it retain 10% of the damage damage cause in the try. So if you manage to damage the boss to 10% of its maxHP, it should start round 2 with 91% HP instead of 100%. Round 3 would be ~83% (you damaged from 91% to 10% = 81% damage, 10% of it is 8.1%). Not to kitten the bosses, but to encourage players to retry the boss even after failing 5 times. Some bosses just want you to quit with the wrong team. And I think after trying ten times, you deserve a bonus …

4 really nice suggestions there, although the last one wouldn’t be very simple to implement. Regarding getting out of combat, they need to at least have a system that we understand:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/getting-out-of-combat

GoldenTruth.2853:

Dungeons should focus on learning the mechanics and approaching the bosses in smart ways, not just waypoint zerging a boss.

The groups that are approaching the dungeons in smart ways are excluding entire professions because they don’t bring what’s necessary to “approach the bosses in smart ways.” This exclusion usually means that players who prefer those professions are going into dungeons with each other, leading sometimes to an entire group that isn’t bringing the best options to “approach the boss.”

Such groups have a dramatically harder dungeon experience. I’ve run in both groups with all “good dungeon professions” and in groups with all “bad dungeon professions.” If you’ve never experienced it, the difference is astounding.

The current state of dungeons teaches players that if they want a fun dungeon experience, they should abandon the profession they prefer to play in favor of one that works in the meta. This is not what we were led to believe would be the case before launch. I’m not saying that a return to in-combat waypoint res would be a good thing. However, it made dungeons more approachable for a larger subset of the game’s population.

Waypoint res in combat is really just a band-aid fix for the problem. A real fix would be to level the playing field between the weaker and stronger professions. That would require ANet to abandon their balance-classes-based-on-sPvP philosophy, or split PvP from PvE insofar as balance goes. I just don’t see that happening.