Guild Wars 2

Okay I may rush this, because I have GW2 going in the back, and I really wanna play just like every other moment in time, but some questions are really eating at me.

I’ve been thinking of the possibility’s of the biology of the Sylvari. For one they are born from a hive mind of sorts of collective knowledge that is expanding every moment. From what I have gathered once they are born they are not completely cut off from the dream ether. The best example I can give is Killeen from the Ghosts of Ascalon book mentioning she can still tap in to The Dream through a sort of meditation. Also from Caithe calling to The Mother Tree in Edge of Destiny for help hundreds of miles from The Grove.

With that said every Sylvari aside seemingly from The Nightmare Court (who I can easily see profiting from it’s information for the sake of espionage) is bound to each other, and it’s vast resources.

It gets me thinking that with that much information compiling every moment the Sylvari will become a very wise race very quickly despite the fact that they are only 25 years old at this point in the game. Not only that, but if they are like most other trees they’re natural lifespan may be hundreds of years old which is a very potent combination of information coupled with experience making them wiser still. Many of these characteristics are very similar to how Elven races are portrayed as old and wise in many fantasy series.

Other thoughts I have are reproduction. We know that they all come from The Mother Tree, and the best we can tell none can seemingly reproduce (Yet!), but when you think about it if they can live hundreds of years then 25 wouldn’t even make them teenagers which is too young to reproduce. When a tree produces fruit it’s intent is for that fruit to travel as far away as possible whether by wind, or animals eating and wandering miles away where they do they’re business we all know they do. In fact that’s why fruit (in a lot of peoples opinions) is so good, because it’s meant to attract something to eat it and carry the seeds elsewhere. Truth be told a Sylvari may reach a gestation period if they live long enough, maybe if they become wise enough, maybe The Mother Tree has to give a blessing of sorts to allow them to become Mother or Father Trees themselves.

I can also see a pair of Sylvari one male, and one female germinating each other oddly enough my imagination leads me to think through they’re hair which seems to me where pollen would grow kinda like natural oils grow in our own hair, but also like it does in flowers where things like bees, butterfly’s, and humming birds can get at nectar. I can easily see two sylvari intimately rubbing they’re heads together kinda like an escamo kiss.

We also know that Sylvari don’t bite the dust after they finish they’re Wyld Hunt which is seemingly to many of them what they where made for just take Trahearne for example after you kill Zhaitan.

I can also picture a Sylvari rooting itself to the ground, and metamorphosing into a tree to become like The Mother Tree. It comes to mind though that this would happen to a Sylvari if they ascended kinda like in GW1. A lot of this seems to come to mind because I see some similarity between GW, and a Scifi series called Stargate. Mainly because of ascention, and Asura gates, but that’s another story.

Anyway guys those are just some thoughts that come to mind, but I gotta cut it short ‘cause I just got DCed in game, and I wanna play GW2. I’ll see you all on the other side!

P.S. it’s odd that the forum spellchecker doesn’t recognize names like Sylvari, Asura, or Ascalon.

There are (currently) 3 types of sylvari, you have your normal sylvari that are still connected to the dream, and you have the Nightmare court that have been disconnected from the dream and “changed”. and the little talked about soundless sylvari that as far as I know only have a single settlement in Caledon Forest. They neither support or oppose the dream, they simply wish to live there own life without the whispers of the dream in there ear. I guess there are really 4 but the last so far only consists of 1 sylvari and he has memory loss so he might have been connected to the dream but just forgot, or was never connected in the first place. Which brings up more questions about the dream and its origins.

I personally subscribe to the theory that the pale tree is a minion of the currently unnamed/unknown nature elder dragon, plenty of stuff about that on other topics.
From what I know, each elder dragon creates its minions differently, one can corrupt living things to make minions while another might use fire and stone to create a minion.
But when it comes to creating new minions I’m lead to believe that only the dragons and there generals possess the ability to create minions.

So if the pale tree is really a general of at least a minion factory then the sylvari wont beable to reproduce.

XelNigma.6315:

There are (currently) 3 types of sylvari, you have your normal sylvari that are still connected to the dream, and you have the Nightmare court that have been disconnected from the dream and “changed”. and the little talked about soundless sylvari that as far as I know only have a single settlement in Caledon Forest. They neither support or oppose the dream, they simply wish to live there own life without the whispers of the dream in there ear. I guess there are really 4 but the last so far only consists of 1 sylvari and he has memory loss so he might have been connected to the dream but just forgot, or was never connected in the first place. Which brings up more questions about the dream and its origins.

I personally subscribe to the theory that the pale tree is a minion of the currently unnamed/unknown nature elder dragon, plenty of stuff about that on other topics.
From what I know, each elder dragon creates its minions differently, one can corrupt living things to make minions while another might use fire and stone to create a minion.
But when it comes to creating new minions I’m lead to believe that only the dragons and there generals possess the ability to create minions.

So if the pale tree is really a general of at least a minion factory then the sylvari wont beable to reproduce.

Of course you mean the Jungle Dragon, which has been rumoured immensely, and the theory that the Pale Tree is a general for said dragon is also on the front of everyone’s minds. Although, the Pale Tree could also be the Jungle Dragon, or like Kralkatorik (Or however you spell it) the Mother Tree could be a vertebrate of the dragon that lives miles below the earth and is big enough to spread all through the Maguuma…but that’s just a theory. Of course going back to the theory that the Pale Tree is a general for the Jungle Dragon means that 250 years ago when the sapling of the tree was planted that the Dragon planned it all or that the Dragon became the tree? I’m confusing even myself here, (Yikes) but it’ll be interesting to see if Anet ever fully delve into these rumours.

Pretty sure that the nightmare court are still connected to the dream. They’re trying to turn all the dream to nightmare.

’Doubt that the dragon-Sylvari “link” is a thing either. ANet would be really jumping the shark if they did that. It would kitten off so many players.

Actually there’s 4 (known) sylvari “types”.

The Sylvari: Attached to the Dream, influenced by the teaching of Ventari’s Tablet
The Soundless: Cut themselves off from the Dream because they feel it is a burden
The Nightmare Court: Feel that Ventari’s tablet has “corrupted” the Pale Tree and that the Nightmares within the Dream are what is truly Sylvari. Feel that the Sylvari should not be following the ideals of a human and a centaur.
The Dreamless Sylvari: The Sylvari born from a tree (or trees) that are not the Pale Tree/ not connected to the Dream. Assumed to be somewhere in Western Maguuma, near Magus Falls. One is currently known (Malyck's tree) but others are assumed to exist.

XelNigma.6315:

There are (currently) 3 types of sylvari, you have your normal sylvari that are still connected to the dream, and you have the Nightmare court that have been disconnected from the dream and “changed”. and the little talked about soundless sylvari that as far as I know only have a single settlement in Caledon Forest. They neither support or oppose the dream, they simply wish to live there own life without the whispers of the dream in there ear. I guess there are really 4 but the last so far only consists of 1 sylvari and he has memory loss so he might have been connected to the dream but just forgot, or was never connected in the first place. Which brings up more questions about the dream and its origins.

I personally subscribe to the theory that the pale tree is a minion of the currently unnamed/unknown nature elder dragon, plenty of stuff about that on other topics.
From what I know, each elder dragon creates its minions differently, one can corrupt living things to make minions while another might use fire and stone to create a minion.
But when it comes to creating new minions I’m lead to believe that only the dragons and there generals possess the ability to create minions.

So if the pale tree is really a general of at least a minion factory then the sylvari wont beable to reproduce.

The sylvari with memory loss is actually from a different pale tree to the west:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Malyck

They have no ventari tablet so who knows what they’re like.

I’m still a strong believer in the elder dragon theory. It makes so much sense sylvari appear around the same time elder dragons appear. Like other dragon minions we are of a certain nature. They can’t be corrupted like others because 1 elder can’t over throw anothers domination. The Nightmare court have this evil, destroy and rule over the planet mind set because thats how sylvari were should be like and ventari’s tablet really did corrupt our souls and change our purpose and made us pure and innocent instead.

Ooo... I like your reasoning there. Just sayin’.

Edit: And I’m sure one day I’ll happily pay for an expansion to find out one way or another. ^^

Swimsasa Stoon.8936:

XelNigma.6315:

There are (currently) 3 types of sylvari, you have your normal sylvari that are still connected to the dream, and you have the Nightmare court that have been disconnected from the dream and “changed”. and the little talked about soundless sylvari that as far as I know only have a single settlement in Caledon Forest. They neither support or oppose the dream, they simply wish to live there own life without the whispers of the dream in there ear. I guess there are really 4 but the last so far only consists of 1 sylvari and he has memory loss so he might have been connected to the dream but just forgot, or was never connected in the first place. Which brings up more questions about the dream and its origins.

I personally subscribe to the theory that the pale tree is a minion of the currently unnamed/unknown nature elder dragon, plenty of stuff about that on other topics.
From what I know, each elder dragon creates its minions differently, one can corrupt living things to make minions while another might use fire and stone to create a minion.
But when it comes to creating new minions I’m lead to believe that only the dragons and there generals possess the ability to create minions.

So if the pale tree is really a general of at least a minion factory then the sylvari wont beable to reproduce.

The sylvari with memory loss is actually from a different pale tree to the west:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Malyck

They have no ventari tablet so who knows what they’re like.

Because of this, said sylvari is probably the best yardstick for what sylvari are ‘naturally’ like. And the answer is… closer to human, norn, charr or non-Nightmare sylvari than to the Nightmare Court or dragon minions.

The theory about sylvari being dragon minions may be a pervasive one, but it’s one that’s persisting because people think it’s cool and edgy, not because there’s any real backing to it. In fact, a lot of the assumptions that it was based on have been disproved (for instance: we’ve seen an example of the behaviour of a ‘default’ sylvari and it’s nothing like a dragon minion; we know that an entity that’s been corrupted by the energy of one dragon minion can still be corrupted by another so the sylvari immunity to corruption can’t be explained by their being dragon minions already, etc.)

At the moment, the best explanations for sylvari ecology go as follows:

1) The species appears to be cyclical, with seeds spending long periods in dormancy before emerging. This could be because the species is trying to emerge in the wake of the dragons, flourish while the dragons are dormant, and go back into quiescence while the dragons are active and this time the cycle missed (possibly due to the tampering with Tyria’s magical flows by the seers and gods). Or it could be that the sylvari are accurate in their belief that they were made as soldiers to fight the Elder Dragons. If so, my money would be on the Forgotten – there is evidence they’ve been in the Maguuma before, and they’re the one species that is known for being able to create things that are immune to dragon corruption.

2) There are two possible explanations for sylvari reproduction. One is that the current generation of sylvari haven’t reached reproductive maturity – perhaps when they do they’ll cocoon into Pale Tree seeds themselves, breed in some manner that produces Pale Tree seeds… or, if they were engineered, it might be that the Pale Tree is only to produce the first generation and after that they’ll reproduce ‘normally’. Or they may reproduce through ‘normal’ means for a few generations before they start producing new Pale Tree seeds again.

The other possibility is that the Pale Tree species is like ants, bees, and similar hive species, with the Pale Tree itself being the queen. In this scenario, individual sylvari will never reproduce – their purpose is to ensure that the Pale Tree survives until it’s ready to produce the seeds to create new Pale Trees, and then to place the seeds in secure locations. Given that the Pale Tree is herself sapient, the species as a whole is probably smart enough not to have all the seeds germinate as soon as possible, but to hide some away – to ensure the species survives a disaster, and to prevent the next generation from facing too much competition from the previous generation and each other – thus explaining the seeds that Ronan found.

I can see the Pale Tree being a minion of the Jungle Dragon, and breaking from it’s will like Glint did, but the Pale Tree has helped to stopped Zhaitan which does not coincide with the Elder Dragons fighting each other. They seem to leave each other alone so they do not disrupt a super-predatory balance of power.

Well, we’ve already seen what it takes for a former minion to be broken free, and that wasn’t carried out with the Pale Tree. At most, it’s possible that the Pale Tree, along with Malyck’s tree, is a descendant of a former champion similar to Glint’s offspring – but in that case the immunity to dragon corruption is a property of the Forgotten ritual freeing their ancestor, not due to being descended from dragon minions.

To reiterate: Dragon minions are not immune to corruption by other dragon minions. The current known cure and prevention for dragon corruption was developed by the Forgotten, and can be performed in Arah. Furthermore, breaking free from dragon corruption is not simply a matter of will – it requires the use of the Forgotten cleansing ritual, which unless Ventari somehow managed to stumble on it and, coincidentally, someone else performed it for Malyck’s tree, has not been performed for the Pale Tree.

I don’t think the Sylvari have the potential to be greater than the other races any sooner than the other races. Their collective knowledge is incomplete when each sylvari gets it in the Dream. So every Sylvari doesn’t know what every other Sylvari knows. That means the Sylvari don’t really get a collective knowledge. Only the Dream gets that collective knowledge and the Sylvari get a collective “zeitgeist”. Determined by the sum of the experiences of the previous Sylvari.

A-net also said that what they learn in the Dream is akin to reading about the thing. So really the dream only serves to give each Sylvari a basic understanding of the world. Not a detailed understanding. Otherwise, the firstborn wouldn’t be needed for further schooling and there would be no need of trainers.

On what they will become, it seems to me that Sylvari are really just the fruits of the Pale Tree. If this analogy is correct, they may carry the seed of Pale Trees inside themselves but since it took Ronan to plant this current one, then there may be something external governing whether or not that seed can germinate at any one time. Maybe the mists governs it as a safety net for Tyria when the Dragons awaken.

Sylvari do have way more potential than the other races in the long run simply due to superior biology: A hivemind of sorts, being born as an adult and never aging… All the other races don’t have anything that comes close to it, maybe only the asura if they truly have way superior intellects by default. Charr, norn and human are weak animals in comparison.

We don’t know that they never age. We only know that their natural lifespan is greater than 25 years.

A-net describes the “hivemind” as a good substitute for other races schools and being raised but it isn’t that much better in practice because A-net also said it is so inefficient.

I like the theory that sylvari are somehow mordremoths minions. But i think its more likely they are just a unique race and due to thier plant like attributes they are susceptible to mordremoths corruption (Nightmare court).

Funny to read your theories about jungle dragon and sylvari who lost memory
Unless the jungle dragon is the exact opposite of other dragons, it cannot be in any sort a pale tree because pale tree is like pure goodness. And every dragon looks like a dragon while pale tree does not. Maybe it would be a champion of jungle dragon, but that does not make too much sense either.
Malyck is sylvari from another pale tree and when he decided to travel to Maguuma, it foreshadowed really great story for the future expansions.

I pretty much abide by the elder dragon theory myself, but I’m kind of curious as to why most of them look Asian in the face. Perhaps there is more than meets the eye on this one.

draxynnic.3719:

If so, my money would be on the Forgotten – there is evidence they’ve been in the Maguuma before, and they’re the one species that is known for being able to create things that are immune to dragon corruption.

I think the Druids are a better possible origin for the Sylvari then the Forgotten. We know they’re ancient (at least by human standards seeing as how they were once human) and their ruins/remains are all over Maguuma (you see alot more of them in GW1).

Tread.9208:

draxynnic.3719:

If so, my money would be on the Forgotten – there is evidence they’ve been in the Maguuma before, and they’re the one species that is known for being able to create things that are immune to dragon corruption.

I think the Druids are a better possible origin for the Sylvari then the Forgotten. We know they’re ancient (at least by human standards seeing as how they were once human) and their ruins/remains are all over Maguuma (you see alot more of them in GW1).

Therein lies the problem. You’ve said that they druids are ancient, but then pointed out that they’re ancient by human standards. Humans are a relatively new race to the continent of Tyria, they are by no means ancient, especially when you compare them to the forgotten.

FlamingFoxx.1305:

Tread.9208:

draxynnic.3719:

If so, my money would be on the Forgotten – there is evidence they’ve been in the Maguuma before, and they’re the one species that is known for being able to create things that are immune to dragon corruption.

I think the Druids are a better possible origin for the Sylvari then the Forgotten. We know they’re ancient (at least by human standards seeing as how they were once human) and their ruins/remains are all over Maguuma (you see alot more of them in GW1).

Therein lies the problem. You’ve said that they druids are ancient, but then pointed out that they’re ancient by human standards. Humans are a relatively new race to the continent of Tyria, they are by no means ancient, especially when you compare them to the forgotten.

I don’t see that as a problem. There’s no need for the Sylvari to have been created in the distant past. All we know about their origin is that a solider named Ronan (former Shining Blade I believe) found a seed in a cave that grew in to the pale tree.

They have a collective mind… controlled by a godly tree

Mmmh… maybe one day they’ll start turning people into Sylvari with poisons.

“We are the Sylvari. Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated”

XD

There are plenty of animated plant creatures in Tyria, sylvari just seem to be one of the humanoid variants. It makes me curious, however, had any of the other seeds Ronan found in the cave been plants on graves of charr, would be be seeing charr-like plant people?

Mortbane.4308:

There are plenty of animated plant creatures in Tyria, sylvari just seem to be one of the humanoid variants. It makes me curious, however, had any of the other seeds Ronan found in the cave been plants on graves of charr, would be be seeing charr-like plant people?

Most likely not. We know of at least one other Pale Tree that exists somewhere else in the Maguuma and the Sylvari from that tree look exactly like ours. So we can assume that the Sylvari’s appearance has nothing to do with Ronan or where our tree was planted

A-net confirmed that the sylvari are the Pale Trees verion of humans due to her experience with humans. But your probably right about not being a result of planted on the graves since they also confirmed that she only saw the outside of humanity.

Dustfinger.9510:

A-net confirmed that the sylvari are the Pale Trees verion of humans due to her experience with humans. But your probably right about not being a result of planted on the graves since they also confirmed that she only saw the outside of humanity.

Do you have a source for that… I’m pretty sure they didn’t say anything of the sort but I am happy to be proven wrong. I think Ree may have said that they MIGHT have been that, but that their true origins and the reasons behind their appearance were unknown.

the race tightly relates to the essence of human due to the Pale Tree’s influences from Ronan, the overall form has a human silhouette. But if you look more closely, you’ll see the forms are really quite alien. They are a collection of abstract notions the Pale Tree had about what made up the human, as she really only saw the surface. They are a tree’s interpretation of humans.

http://www.talktyria.net/2011/08/11/sylvari-lore-interview-with-ree-soesbee-kristen-perry/

I’ve been thinking about the Jungle Dragon. When I first started playing my Sylvari I just assumed it was a metaphor in the dream of the dragons to come. The Jungle Dragon in my opinion looks too much like The Plague Bringer. The Shatterer, and Claw of Jormag look nothing like The Plague Bringer who is probably breather-in to Sunless, plus I think Anet is a little more acutely original. I think the only reason the Jungle Dragon looked plant like is our Slyvari haven’t seen outside the dream yet, and may be coupled with thoughts from the subconscious of all they have known before birth.

Lord Erik.6903:

I’ve been thinking about the Jungle Dragon. When I first started playing my Sylvari I just assumed it was a metaphor in the dream of the dragons to come. The Jungle Dragon in my opinion looks too much like The Plague Bringer. The Shatterer, and Claw of Jormag look nothing like The Plague Bringer who is probably breather-in to Sunless, plus I think Anet is a little more acutely original. I think the only reason the Jungle Dragon looked plant like is our Slyvari haven’t seen outside the dream yet, and may be coupled with thoughts from the subconscious of all they have known before birth.

What is the Plague Bringer?
Also the Sylvari don’t control the dream, it’s sort of a place in the mists kind of thing, so their subconscious would not effect how things within the dream appear. It’s important to note that the Dream existed before Sylvari and that other things can enter it, explaining the presence of a Dragon minion and the White Staf. The Pale Tree believes that the Plant dragon we fight is our Wyld Hunt to fight Zhaitan, and considering we end up on a Wyld hunt to fight Zhaitan we probably have to assume she is right.

The sylvari add their experiences to the Dream. So their subconsciousness does affect it even though it exists independently. That’s how the nightmare courts is working. By causing enough pain and terror to alter the dream.

Dustfinger.9510:

The sylvari add their experiences to the Dream. So their subconsciousness does affect it even though it exists independently. That’s how the nightmare courts is working. By causing enough pain and terror to alter the dream.

That is through the memories and experiences (of them doing evil things) that they pass on to the unborn Sylvari, not through the creation of physical things within the dream.

Don’t forget the nightmare hounds within the dream when you start a new character though. By introducing those negative subconscious experiences, the Dream itself creates the physical things within it.

Dustfinger.9510:

Don’t forget the nightmare hounds within the dream when you start a new character though. By introducing those negative subconscious experiences, the Dream itself creates the physical things within it.

Actually, Nightmare hounds (like Fern Mastifs/Sylvan Hounds – which they are versions of, twisted by Nightmare) are creatures of the Pale Tree so naturally they share in the dream as well, hence their presence.
“The Dream can impart knowledge and sensation, but not actual experience”

edit: Nvm. I just realized what you were saying.