Guild Wars 2

Ghaste.2419:

So for you Dbgamer, the fight just need better reward and it will be fine?

I have some questions:

• How many time you think this fight will be done/day in one month?
• Do you think 6 turret is a strong open world raid mechanic?
• Do timer is a strong mechanic for challenge?
• How many people should be able to complete the event?
• How many people should be required to kill it?
• If the reward don’t get better, you will keep doing it?
• Do you thing there could be improvement to this fight or it’s perfectly fine?
• Do this fight is a strong feature to bring more people to GW2?
• After you hav done it 20 times or more, will you still do it again and again?
• If less people come to this fight and you don’t have the number you mention earlier, will you still try to kill it?
• What’s your server name?

I’m not going to answer each question individually, but to answer in a broad way:
- I don’t think the event is perfect – I don’t necessarily agree with EVERY mechanic that’s in the fight – and tbh I’m sure I don’t fully understand every mechanic. I’m just happy with the challenge and am eager to work with my guild and server (fort aspenwood) to take Teq down.

Are there other ways to make the event perfect? Probably. but the principle that SO many people are saying “it’s too hard, nerf it” is something that I disagree with. And before people jump on that comment, i’m not saying it’s the ONLY reason people are complaining, but it’s definitely a big one – I can pull quotes if you want.

As for the longevity of the event, who knows, I think better rewards will keep people interested – I really do think that after 20 tries people will give up, or even after successfully killing it a handful of times people will get bored, but if you tie a strong reward to it, as I said, like a precursor crafting element that only drops from dragons, for example, people will definitely figure out how to do the event on their server, and will continue to do it.

Just my opinion. Feel free to disagree or pick apart individual arguments, but I’m saying, as a summary of my points, I don’t think people should be calling for a nerf.

Lol, I can’t believe what I’m seeing here — there are people who are actually trying to say that stuff like this is not what Guild Wars 2, philosophically, is about? Are you joking?

What Guild Wars 2 is not about is sitting around staring at a boss timer so you can warp from boss to boss autoattacking until it dies, and repeat.

What Guild Wars 2 is not about is huge epic bosses that have literally become easier to kill than a level 60 mob. At least you have to dodge and use skills to beat level 60 trash mobs effectively.

Now consider what Guild Wars 2 is about. Dynamic content that impacts the world around you. Events that feel like they’re taking place for their own tangible reasons instead of being a loot pinata for players. Content that is focused around skill and co-ordination and poses a real challenge, a breath of fresh air and a step away from the mundane, mindless grind and gear-centric gameplay of traditional MMOs. I think anyone would agree that these are the principles that are at the very core of Guild Wars 2’s philosophy, and I feel strongly that the new Tequatl fight is more true to those values than ever. I’ve been calling for the major boss fights to be totally reworked like this for months now, for those reasons.

With a bit of balancing this content will be extraordinary; imagine what a difference something as simple as another five to ten minutes of allotted time would make for the sake of balance.

yeah this is great guild challenge but not open world boss

not everyone is in the guild that can gather 80 ppl on TS to kill one boss for crappy 2 rares

i like how they buffed other bosses, they are harder but are actually managable

Why does this boss have to follow the pattern of all other open world bosses?

16+ servers have taken him down

Anyone changing their tune?

Actually quite a few haven’t passed it. Dragonbrand have had 2 victories – both by huge guilds guesting, beating him then grazing elsewhere. As an actual server we’ve hit 50% max. The numbers of servers beating him are getting inflated by the huge guilds unable to get space on their own server.

Mars.6319:

Wargrave.4936:

I don’t think people have a problem with how challenging it is. But a problem with if 2-3 idiots get on a turret it is a fail. We can’t control who gets them first. Then it is even worse in over flow.

Or if people drag champs onto the turrets trying to get the controller killed so that they can have a chance to use it…

By the time that’s done, the battle is lost.

There’s no leeway for anything but a perfect battle from start to end.

I completely agree with the OP, FINALLY A WORTHY CHALLENGE!

I was thinking to change to another mmorpg soon, not because gw2 is bad, it has improved so many usual mmorpgs mechanics, but because (so far) it has been WAY TOO EASY!

Now ascended weapons system, super adventure box AND ESPECIALLY tequatl, brought some good challenge to the game. People finally NEED to mass coordinate, it’s not an option anymore, just to save time. YOU FINALLY NEED to be skilled or you won’t win anything. As it should always be.

Continue this way and I won’t think about quitting gw2 anymore, also I now bought my first gems with real money just to give my first (symbolical) encouragement to you developers to continue developing new HARD content.

Good job arena net

dbgamer.3407:

Why does this boss have to follow the pattern of all other open world bosses?

Because it still uses the basic design of all open world bosses (you have no control on who gets to participate – anyone can be present, including people that just are in the area, but did not come there for Teq at all).
The best example here would be Claw – if he were to be revamped the same way, his desing should better take into considration, that the main map (and lot of overflows) would be half-filled with champ farmers, leaving far less slots for killing him.

Please Nerf. ~I know how much you all love that comment~ But this content is flawed for several reasons.
1. Requires 80+ characters
2. Requires that ALL players are skilled
3. Requires that ALL players know what they are doing
4. Requires that ALL players are actively playing
5. Requires that ALL players work together
6. Requires that ALL players have good internet connection
7. Requires good leadership

This kind of content does not challenge a player’s skills, but rather, punishes the player for other’s mistakes, because it doesn’t matter how skilled you are at combat, team work, or leadership; if you can’t find 80 people of the same quality you will fail, if any of the above points outlined are missed, you will fail. This kind of event requires all players to give 100%, but that is rarely possible. In that regards, this content is neither ‘hard’ nor ‘challenging’, but rather relies completely on luck.
1. The luck that you get into main server
2. The luck that all the above listed points are met.

And this luck based system does not make the game more fun, but irritating. For even if you can find a good group that meets all the requirements; good luck getting on their server. And this, by all means, is the great downfall to this event.

Mia Lunarfang.5826:

Please Nerf. ~I know how much you all love that comment~ But this content is flawed for several reasons.
1. Requires 80+ characters
2. Requires that all players are skilled
3. Requires that all players know what they are doing
4. Requires that all players are actively playing
5. Requires that all players work together
6. Requires that all players have good internet connection
7. Requires good leadership

.

This is the worst argument I’ve seen yet. These are all reasons that make this patch a GOOD thing in my opinion. Requires players are skilled? Requires leadership? Requires good internet connection? You HAVE to be kidding… you want a nerf for those reasons?

So basically what you’re saying is you want content that requires no skill, that people can DC during with no consequence, and for people who don’t know what they’re doing.

This response is the worst QQ yet.

If you’re going to start a thread could you not start it just because you like the sound of your own voice? Every response from you is simply trolling. Please close thread and l2p with other people okay? Obvious troll is Obvious.

OP has no idea what a real challenge actually is.

Astralporing.1957:

dbgamer.3407:

Why does this boss have to follow the pattern of all other open world bosses?

Because it still uses the basic design of all open world bosses (you have no control on who gets to participate – anyone can be present, including people that just are in the area, but did not come there for Teq at all).
The best example here would be Claw – if he were to be revamped the same way, his desing should better take into considration, that the main map (and lot of overflows) would be half-filled with champ farmers, leaving far less slots for killing him.

Quoted for truth.
This isn’t an open world boss, this is a raid content put in an open world map. That needs to be organized like a raid to be beaten, treating servers and overflow as private instances to assure that people aren’t afk during the fight and competent ones are using turrets.
As a raid it would be a perfect content – and it should have been one to begin with.
As an open world boss, it is terribly designed and easily griefable.

Talissa Chan.7208:

If you’re going to start a thread could you not start it just because you like the sound of your own voice? Every response from you is simply trolling. Please close thread and l2p with other people okay? Obvious troll is Obvious.

How are all of my responses trolling? Just because I’m arguing the same side every time, doesn’t make it trolling. I’ve been consistent with my position.

kulle.6542:

OP has no idea what a real challenge actually is.

Elaborate on this pls – you don’t consider Teq a challenge?

Mia Lunarfang.5826:

Please Nerf. ~I know how much you all love that comment~ But this content is flawed for several reasons.
1. Requires 80+ characters
2. Requires that all players are skilled
3. Requires that all players know what they are doing
4. Requires that all players are actively playing
5. Requires that all players work together
6. Requires that all players have good internet connection
7. Requires good leadership

I agree with dbgamer, these are some very poor criticisms. I never thought I’d see the day someone actually thought that players should be able to beat a major boss in a game without needing skill, co-ordination, teamwork and to know what they’re doing. It sounds like the sort of false entitlement that has spoiled gamers as a whole for quite a while now.

This kind of content does not challenge a player’s skills, but rather, punishes the player for other’s mistakes, because it doesn’t matter how skilled you are at combat, team work, or leadership; if you can’t find 80 people of the same quality you will fail, if any of the above points outlined are missed, you will fail. This kind of event requires all players to give 100%, but that is rarely possible. In that regards, this content is neither ‘hard’ nor ‘challenging’, but rather relies completely on luck.
1. The luck that you get into main server
2. The luck that all the above listed points are met.

And this luck based system does not make the game more fun, but irritating. For even if you can find a good group that meets all the requirements; good luck getting on their server. And this, by all means, is the great downfall to this event.

But if that were true then it would not be the case that more skilled groups of players are able to slay the dragon. Even on my own world, Borlis Pass, an effort co-ordinated by my guild and a couple others saw us take the dragon to about 33% health; if luck were a major factor here then it’s a pretty huge coincidence that the level of success appears to be directly impacted by the effort, skill and teamwork used by players.

Talissa Chan.7208:

If you’re going to start a thread could you not start it just because you like the sound of your own voice? Every response from you is simply trolling. Please close thread and l2p with other people okay? Obvious troll is Obvious.

Please look up the definition of “trolling,” which means capturing the attention of a group of people by making them angry and continually agitating them by any means possible. That’s trolling. What we have here is a person expressing their opinion, which appears to have made you angry because you disagree with it, not because he’s trying to agitate you. Someone’s opinion is never trolling, and trolls generally don’t express their own opinions. Accusing someone of “trolling” is not a “win argument free” card.

kulle.6542:

OP has no idea what a real challenge actually is.

Is anything that is put in front of you to overcome.

If someone comes and tells you: “I dare you to blink”.

That’s a challenge.

Difficulty is not necessary for something to be considered a challenge.

MithranArkanere.8957:

kulle.6542:

OP has no idea what a real challenge actually is.

Is anything that is put in front of you to overcome.

If someone comes and tells you: “I dare you to blink”.

That’s a challenge.

Difficulty is not necessary for something to be considered a challenge.

Challenge: “A test of one’s abilities or resources in a demanding but stimulating undertaking”

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/challenge

Challenge: “to arouse or stimulate especially by presenting with difficulties <she wants a job that will challenge her”
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/challenge

Dude, if you’re really going to try to debate the english language to back your points, at least do some research.

I can’t say this enough: The difficulty is about right, but there’s one mechanic that can make this fight completely impossible.

There are only 6 cannons. If just 3 of those cannons are manned by someone who either doesn’t know what to do or is just a plain troll, there is no way the fight will succeed. As there is no way to remove someone from a cannon, short of them dying, it’s actually possible to fail the event even before it really starts.

My only other gripe is guesting: I’m on TC, and unless I want to get to the map an hour early and AFK, I simply cannot get into it outside of an overflow. So far, the best attempt that I’ve been a part of (so far, it’s always been in overflow) got him down to about 85%. Even if I’m totally sucking it up, there’s nothing I, personally, could be doing that would make that mess winnable.

dbgamer.3407:

16+ servers have taken him down

Anyone changing their tune?

Nope.

The teams that are beating him are still very organized groups, all communicating via some sort of VOIP. Some servers are beating him because they managed to get enough people into their main map. Other servers are beating him because a big group decided to guest there. Overflows are beating him because a group took over the overflow for their attempt.

In all cases, the primary things are not changing. A large group or guild specifically dedicated to defeating him managed to get on a map by themselves, and used voice communication to keep everyone focused on the task. That simply will not happen with low population servers, or with your average overflow.

If a person tries their best, does that mean they deserve or should expect success? Anyone thinking so is speaking of entitlement. Just because you played your best does not mean that you should win every time.

Tequatl is a dragon and is designed to be respected as a villain. Sometimes the Villain needs to win, otherwise we wouldn’t see it as a challenge. Some heroes are better than others, some don’t have to work as hard as others to succeed.

dbgamer.3407:

Mia Lunarfang.5826:

Please Nerf. ~I know how much you all love that comment~ But this content is flawed for several reasons.
1. Requires 80+ characters
2. Requires that all players are skilled
3. Requires that all players know what they are doing
4. Requires that all players are actively playing
5. Requires that all players work together
6. Requires that all players have good internet connection
7. Requires good leadership

.

This is the worst argument I’ve seen yet. These are all reasons that make this patch a GOOD thing in my opinion. Requires players are skilled? Requires leadership? Requires good internet connection? You HAVE to be kidding… you want a nerf for those reasons?

So basically what you’re saying is you want content that requires no skill, that people can DC during with no consequence, and for people who don’t know what they’re doing.

This response is the worst QQ yet.

Basically, what I’m saying, is that the event fails not because you lack skill or dedication, but because others do, and this is not fair to you as a player, or to the other players that are working hard at your side. Its not at all like a dungeon were you can team up with players who you know are going to give it their all, or kick out those who fail to do so, its not a guild run with a trusted group under a close nit command; what you get, is what you get, and you cant do anything about it. That’s not good game mechanics, that doesn’t challenge your skills as a player, or team work, it punishes you for trying because others arnt.

Elricht Kaltwind.8796:

But if that were true then it would not be the case that more skilled groups of players are able to slay the dragon. Even on my own world, Borlis Pass, an effort co-ordinated by my guild and a couple others saw us take the dragon to about 33% health; if luck were a major factor here then it’s a pretty huge coincidence that the level of success appears to be directly impacted by the effort, skill and teamwork used by players.

A given group of players can have all the luck in the world and still not defeat the dragon. There’s no question that doing the right things matters. However, luck can still be a major factor, because of the two failure points that skill cannot control.

• Did all the players planning to work together get into the same zone?
• Did randoms who don’t know what they’re doing manage to get on the turrets?

If anything needs to be addressed, it’s these two points.

Elricht Kaltwind.8796:

I agree with dbgamer, these are some very poor criticisms. I never thought I’d see the day someone actually thought that players should be able to beat a major boss in a game without needing skill, co-ordination, teamwork and to know what they’re doing. It sounds like the sort of false entitlement that has spoiled gamers as a whole for quite a while now.

I’m not saying you should be able to beat a boss without teamwork and coordination, but that’s its wrong that we forced into open ended groups that may or may not care about teamwork and coordination. We who are working hard together, should not be punished for others not caring enough.

But if that were true then it would not be the case that more skilled groups of players are able to slay the dragon. Even on my own world, Borlis Pass, an effort co-ordinated by my guild and a couple others saw us take the dragon to about 33% health; if luck were a major factor here then it’s a pretty huge coincidence that the level of success appears to be directly impacted by the effort, skill and teamwork used by players.

Once again, I did not say there are no good groups, but that I and the majority of players, have never been able to get into one. The luck factor I was referring to, is not whether or not you can beat the dragon, but if you can get into a good group(which is the most essential requirement to defeating him).

For me it’s always looks the same. I’m using wp → end up in overflow, after 2 minutes I see that it will fail.
Open world content is a open world content. Open world players, majority of them just wander around leveling toons, gathering onions and exploring a map. Most of them haven’t been in any dungeon. Most of them has problems with dodging and their own class skills. They even does not read this forum or any other “guides” for any content.
Most of players are just casual. And they just don’t care really about this event at all. For them running around is fun. Soloing some vet on map is a “challenge”.

Thats why for me this event is just stupid. Claw event was stupid because it was too long (and now it’s even more annoying) but tequatl is just stupid. How can I force dead ppl to ress on wp and run to fight? How can I force ppl to use turrets in proper way? How can I even force ppl to dps tequatl as high as possible? In guild challenge I can just explain it with voice com or just kick some noob from guild. In dungeon I can explain or kick that noob. What can I do here?

For me it’s bad design. Open world should stay as casual place for happy exploring with group events which in most cases could be done solo. Make it some guild challenge or raid for group. If anet stay on this road and revamp other bosses in same way they just kill open world bosses fights at all. Why?
Because for now when I see for example shatterer timer show up I have 99.99% chance that I get a reward from it. It does not really matter what hour it is, how many ppl are playing. Boss will get killed.
With tequatl I have maybe 1% and only because ppl are now hyped and want gear and achivments. After some time it will be dead as karka queen (so done maybe once a day at most). Open world bosses are ONLY there for drop. If chance to get drop is lowered, ppl just ignore those events and start doing something else.

Still fight is quite fun but it should be change to some instances fight. Open world just does not work well with coordination and skilled players. This type of content only makes ppl frustrated.

I certainly agree that there are some faults with this content. It’s not that I’m saying it’s perfect, but I am saying that it’s brilliant stuff and some of the most exciting and epic new content we’ve had yet. It’s taking the game in a direction I was almost hopeless to think that it may ever go in (with the boss fights looking more and more spammy and farmy with each passing week for many many months now). I want to voice my support as strongly as possible for the direction they’re moving in with the reworking of this fight.

It is flawed, that’s true. But I really don’t feel any concern because of how easy it will be to do balancing on this event once they’ve had a while to observe players’ efforts. Something as simple as adding five more minutes to the clock could very well make this encounter perfect; maybe something like buffing the turrets. I also feel that giving commanders the ability to commandeer the turrets and override other players’ control would be a terrific thing (sort of like WvW where the player who built the siege machine can override all other players’ control of it). This way they can boot off people who shouldn’t be on the turrets and hand it off to someone more suitable with no hassle.

I think one or more of these things would go a long way to perfecting this content. But people really do need to chill a little in the meanwhile; I fully expect that no significant changes will be made until the current stage of the Living World is over, and that’s really nothing to worry about. You can get all the Living World achievements in a couple of hours without even winning a Tequatl fight — notice that they separated the achievements dealing directly with the Tequatl fight into its own category under “Bosses,” which is permanent and will persist long after the Living World has progressed past the current stage.

Calling this content good is a symptom of most of PvE being too easy. The content itself is plagued with poor design choices, ranging from: most build options being non-optimal to bad; overflows; AFK’s; stacking being encouraged (as usual); particle blur; and the major fail point being placed in the hands of just 6 out of the recommended 80 players. Turning more world boss fights into something like this without learning from the failures in this event will be a mistake.

Shiren.9532:

Tequatl is being failed primarily because individual players have little control over the rest of the people “contributing”. The actual challenge is organisation and co-ordination of large numbers, not so much skill.

The “fix”: Anyone AFK when Teq is starting is shunted to the Overflow, preferably a new one. Everyone in existing Overflows is given the option, until full, of going to the main zone, unless they’re also Akitten which case they, too, will be shunted to the new Overflow. Everyone from existing Overflows not shunted to the new one for AFKers and not put into the active main zone will be given the option of going to the first Overflow with active players. They will backfill until all Overflows are filled with active players and all AFKers are sequestered in their own AFKer Overflow. We can call the AFKer Overflow “HFIL”.

Still holding firm on this – it’s been almost a week and I still think this has been an awesome challenge.

I finally got the kill last night – our server banded together and coordinated an awesome run. Killed him with 2:50 minutes remaining.

All of the attempts so far have been thrilling, frustrating, edge-of-your-seat experiences, that make this content so great.

Again I say, please, don’t nerf (but maybe increase the rewards for re-playability)!

dbgamer.3407:

I’d just like to be one of the few people to say thank you ANET for giving us a lofty challenge. I think this is great for the game, and I’ll explain why:

1. We are too used to ‘akitteng’ content and boss mobs.

I think people are upset that this is so hard at least in part because they’re so used to setting up at a safe spot for the boss mob fight, heading to the kitchen for a drink, and coming back to grab their dragon chest and loot. Making these fights something worthy of a server working together and coordinating is a GOOD thing

2. It’s a freaking DRAGON.

I remember the first time I killed Teq, being completely underwhelmed. I was totally impressed with the three dragons, their animations, and their graphics, but was blown away at how stupidly facepalmingly easy the fights were. Jormag was annoying, but it wasn’t hard. Anyone remember The Sleeper from EQ? That was an epic battle and people still talk about the first time it was killed.

3. This is a great guild challenge.

Since there isn’t raid content in this game, I think there should be at LEAST a few dragons in the game that take mass coordination to defeat, and that often means guild “raid”. Not in a guild? then join one! is your guild not strong enough yet? then work towards it! I don’t have time for people who say “well it should be pugged, it’s not fair that a guild who coordinated on TS3 was the only team who defeated something”. Why the hell shouldn’t it be like that? Why does everything have to be so stupidly easy that any group of level 60-80 half-geared, half-afk people can beat it?

4. The content has only been out for a day people.

Lets hold off on all the QQ’ing and the “ANET, this is too hard” threads until we give it at least a week. One server has already beat him, so why can’t the rest?

5. If you’re not willing to work towards something and coordinate, don’t play the content, or find a group of people who will work with you.

Don’t want to download teamspeak? sorry, no sympathy. Don’t want to join or work with a large guild? again, too bad. If you don’t want to work towards it, go back to farming FGS.

The ONLY thing I would say about the Teq rising patch that I think should be changed is the reward, ie. loot. From what I’ve heard you get a number of chests and mats, but that’s not really all that impressive when those items can pretty easily be attained from doing a couple of the easier events. I think that there should be something concrete as a reward. For example:
- Unique precursor crafting component (remember having to get the red scales from Naggy?)
- New Teq weapon skin (not RNG) or a token towards one (with 10 tokens traded in for a skin)
- Mystic Clovers

Give us a reward on par with the level of effort! Bring back the olden days of epic dragon slaying raids!

1. You can still stay on the safe spot. You have to jump from time to time and pray to the gods that someone who is not handicapped is on the turret.

2. There is nothing more challenging in Teq than in Jormag.

3. Not every guild has TS3 server. Not every guild is in a big server with lots of people who are not in a guild. If they aren’t in one already, they are probably new. Good luck organising low level people.

4. This is it’s peak. First day the most people will do it. From now on every try will be with less people.

5. It’s hard to find a group when people are only trying to get into servers who killed Teq before.

Trixie.7614:

1. You can still stay on the safe spot. You have to jump from time to time and pray to the gods that someone who is not handicapped is on the turret.

2. There is nothing more challenging in Teq than in Jormag.

3. Not every guild has TS3 server. Not every guild is in a big server with lots of people who are not in a guild. If they aren’t in one already, they are probably new. Good luck organising low level people.

4. This is it’s peak. First day the most people will do it. From now on every try will be with less people.

5. It’s hard to find a group when people are only trying to get into servers who killed Teq before.

My personal opinion, in response:
1. That’s not going to win the Teq fight – staying in one spot and jumping isn’t what the fight is about
2. Completely disagree – you can’t argue the time constraint and coordination it takes in Teq is on par with the current Jormag. Jormag is cake compared to Teq. Perhaps each individual specific mechanic isn’t that much harder, but the combination is what makes it hard.
3. There are usually server teamspeaks that are opened up to allow pugs in, which is what we’ve been doing on Fort Aspenwood, even when we guest to other servers
4. Can’t argue with this point. I’ve been saying from the beginning they need better rewards to ensure players continue to run this event.
5. Our guild and server team has taken Teq down in our own server, and some of the lower population servers. It may be difficult to find a team, but it’s possible.

Took Teq down 3 times in a row last night without the use of any VOIP programs.

Just a bunch of random people led by someone who knows what they are doing.

just sayin.