Guild Wars 2

This mechanic was introduced with the twisted minions. No one seemed to complain back then for some odd reason.

zeromius.1604:

This mechanic was introduced with the twisted minions. No one seemed to complain back then for some odd reason.

Because if you did not clean up twisted minions the living ones would morph or conbine into new ones it had more significance there. Personally I am indifferent about finishers in PvE as is but the kind of stuff they did with the clockwork creatures was interesting.

It is obviously partly a business decision for permanent finishers in PvE context and I don’t dislike it for that.

Personally what I really would have wanted to see here would have been downed state for Krait with their shapeshifting lore being turned into an interesting mechanic. Wasted potential.

I liked it with the twisted minions because they didn’t go into a downed state; they had a separate mechanic tied into the finishing mechanic, to use it in a unique way. That was clever.

With the Nightmare Court in this release, I feel like I just don’t get it. They don’t seem especially tough or determined or anything (compared to plenty of other foes we’ve fought,) so I don’t see why they have a downed state, something that I had appreciated for making players special heroes in the world. There’s no player on the downed end struggling dramatically for survival, and it’s not as satisfying to do a finisher on Nightmare Courtier #8, so it just doesn’t seem to serve the same purpose at all as it does in WvW or PvP.

I like that idea, Crise, of using the Krait shapeshifting as a new mechanic somehow, considering we never get to see it elsewhere. That they don’t have a downed state and the NC do just makes having to finish some enemies all that more distracting. (In a “this is a hassle, what is this for?” way.)

Disastro.4086:

Funky.4861:

I find it really odd to use a wvw finishing move in pve. After all, in wvw it’s an actual player ur finishing so it has a smidge of significance but in pve, mobs are not normally anything special or unique. It feels out of place and i can’t help but think that anet are tying to bring the 2 game modes closer together.

Considering the mobs don’t really do anything in their downed state to me it just looks like an up-sell for gem store finishers for pvers.

Mobs can heal each other as well as themselves just like we can. They can also attack from downed state. From what i’ve seen so far, the only thing they lack is the ability to interrupt a stomp.

I like finishing them, I also noticed they will try to revive each other when down which is awesome and I like as well.

I love this addition. Makes it feel like you’re actually fighting enemies you need to pay attention to.

These finishers just make fights against these mobs easier. The thing about the downed state in PvP or WvW is that its pivotal to finish off the enemy because the enemy could still deal a decent amount of damage (if traited) and down you too, and then another one of his buddies comes to res him. Considering almost every class has a CC move when downed or shadowstepping move, and how the AI lazily auto attacks you while downed and just constantly using bandage waiting for his buddy to get him up, and that his buds would just run to him and res him without having to CC you or consider your health (i.e. if your hp is low, his buddy would rather finish you off first rather than ressing) which pretty much draws a line between PvE and PvP. The idea is there, but the simplistic AI just makes them look more silly. I am not sure about some players who have not touched PvP that much whether they may or may not like it, but as a player who’s retired from 700 tourney matches, I’d say improve the AI first then we’re talking. This would really be an interesting mechanic added to PvE making it really challenging and fun.

I don’t hate this, but I don’t think it’s an interesting mechanic at all. The mobs go down in about five seconds anyway so this just unnecessarily lengthens the fight. I’d prefer if they didn’t continue with this.

It just slows down pve. Seems like maybe a horrible idea/fix for zerging over pve mobs too quick and giving slower players a chance to tag it. That or to sell finishers in the gem store.

I vote please do not add this to pve.

I’m another one of those people that actually likes this (gave me my hint achievement as well, so that was nice). I like that you have to actually focus in on an enemy and finish them off. Only complaint I might have would be when do bosses that spawn tons of adds and finishing them off would become a hassle, but so far it seems to be only this patch and this area. So there shouldn’t be much to complain about right now.

It’s a step closer to pvp/pve parity by designing the mobs to have the same mechanics as players. I tentatively approve.

Maybe if they did it for dungeons or other smaller scale battles, it’d be fine. But I think it breaks the flow of combat in big open world DE’s. I don’t like having to stop at one of hundreds of monsters to take extra time to dance around and smash his face in. I’d rather just knock him away with my hammer and move on to the next.

I appreciate that the devs. are experimenting, though.

Isende.2607:

… It’s just, in my opinion, a colossal waste of time…

Squishiness completely aside, THIS^

This is nothing more than a waste of time that will become enormously annoying if continued past this particular LS.

I don’t know about you, but I will always find a cow falling on someone highly entertaining, even if it is pve.

Hmm… with additional skills, mechanics, and AI improvements I could see the downed state becoming a really fun addition to PvE.

Just slapped in like this however, it’s either annoying or completely inconsequential depending on the situation.

It definitely counts for the finisher achievement in the halloween tab, if you use the mad king or scarecrow finisher.

I actually quite enjoy this. Granted, I may be a WvW player anyway, but the way I see it, it adds another tactical element to the mix. You can finish them off – they don’t do much, if any, damage while downed – or you can leave them there while their allies run to res them… meaning you’re not taking damage… and they are.

Honestly I think it’s a good thing. Gives people a couple more seconds to tag in a hit for credit, huge downed HP pool and largely helpless down skills can let players coordinate tagging in big champion events.

Though I don’t mind this new release, I really didn’t care much for this specific addition.
If we have to include this then only FINISH HIM! on the Veterans or Champs, but not the line troopers.

I love the downed state finisher for them, I just wish they had skills. They do actually rally if you ignore them, but you can also just kill them off if you choose not to use a finisher, so I really don’t see the issue here.

I like the finishers in pve. It is kind of realistic becasue we go into downstate too so why shouldn’t the foes too? besides, for non pvp players the gem store finishers are not interesting to buy but if they would be implemented to pve more clearely it will make a worth to buy item.

I would rather randomize their appearance so not every foe goes into down state or they should add more skill to them so they may rally if they fight you on one by one.

But all in all I like it/ Good job on this A-Net

It’s a good addition, I like it. It allows other mobs to heal them back to health as well, similar to how it was in gw1 where you would have monk or paragon mobs resurrect their dead comrades if you didn’t do anything about it.

It is just a greater incentive to get people to purchase finishers from the black lion trading company. Seems like quite an obvious tactic to me.

Personally I do not mind, A.Net need to make money and it adds an interesting dynamic to combat. I will say they should throw out a few random limited use finishers as occasional drops also.

Love the finishers
Thank you anet! All too often my sab finisher is collecting dust, now I get to use it

May actually have reason to buy more now, explosive finisher was too good to ever buy another one. But if I get to use them more often, who knows?

“Normal” mobs shouldn’t have finishers.
(outside of this LS)
I do agree with this. Though it does give enough time for everyone to get kill credit during a zerg.

Restrict it to vets, elites and champs in the future, but I would love to see all vets, elites and champs have down state. Maybe even be able to apply finishers of their own?

For those complaining about a waste of time, give me a break! Move onto another mob, get more tagging done while someone else finishes it. And if you are fighting by yourself, it’s a much needed “skill based” mechanic to have to manage mobs ressing each other. As opposed to the normal “give it more health to make it harder!”

why would you buy a finisher? I have had no compulsion at all to buy any of them. If you have no self control on that sort of thing then that is a personal problem.

Go do a small bit of pvp matches to get the rabbit finisher and wa-la! you now have a permanent finisher and you never have to touch pvp again if you don’t want. It takes all of 1 hour to get ranked enough to get that finisher. Maybe not even that if you use glory boosters, idk.

Monkey Fritz.9052:

Love the finishers
For those complaining about a waste of time, give me a break! Move onto another mob, get more tagging done while someone else finishes it. And if you are fighting by yourself, it’s a much needed “skill based” mechanic to have to manage mobs ressing each other. As opposed to the normal “give it more health to make it harder!”

I disagree. While i dont complain that it is a waste of time but rather it dumbs down the AI to just prioritise ressing, paling other choices which is a need in PvP. I agree that this mechanic is a brilliant idea. But with the AI as it is its just making them all the more easier to beat and is hardly “skill based”. I do firmly believe that a more intelligent AI would make this mechanic fantastic and challenging and would be hard for it to get old. Just my opinion

cassy.6920:

Monkey Fritz.9052:

Love the finishers
For those complaining about a waste of time, give me a break! Move onto another mob, get more tagging done while someone else finishes it. And if you are fighting by yourself, it’s a much needed “skill based” mechanic to have to manage mobs ressing each other. As opposed to the normal “give it more health to make it harder!”

I disagree. While i dont complain that it is a waste of time but rather it dumbs down the AI to just prioritise ressing, paling other choices which is a need in PvP. I agree that this mechanic is a brilliant idea. But with the AI as it is its just making them all the more easier to beat and is hardly “skill based”. I do firmly believe that a more intelligent AI would make this mechanic fantastic and challenging and would be hard for it to get old. Just my opinion

That seems like a completely different discussion. “Not as good as it could be” is a far cry from the OP “No.”

On a related note, seeing a whole lot of people in game going around solo killing courtier mobs (and ignoring everything else) for what seems to be no other reason than to use their finishers, lol.

Monkey Fritz.9052:

cassy.6920:

Monkey Fritz.9052:

Love the finishers
For those complaining about a waste of time, give me a break! Move onto another mob, get more tagging done while someone else finishes it. And if you are fighting by yourself, it’s a much needed “skill based” mechanic to have to manage mobs ressing each other. As opposed to the normal “give it more health to make it harder!”

I disagree. While i dont complain that it is a waste of time but rather it dumbs down the AI to just prioritise ressing, paling other choices which is a need in PvP. I agree that this mechanic is a brilliant idea. But with the AI as it is its just making them all the more easier to beat and is hardly “skill based”. I do firmly believe that a more intelligent AI would make this mechanic fantastic and challenging and would be hard for it to get old. Just my opinion

That seems like a completely different discussion. “Not as good as it could be” is a far cry from the OP “No.”

On a related note, seeing a whole lot of people in game going around solo killing courtier mobs (and ignoring everything else) for what seems to be no other reason than to use their finishers, lol.

How is it a completely different discussion when it is relevant and i am providing some insight? Are you implying that you wouldnt like to see this being developed into something which is cough “skill based”? I don’t enjoy it as it is now. It makes the mobs sort of easier but i really am wishing they would develop upon this.

You don’t have to stomp those mobs, imo if the mechanic was upon hitting 5% health the mob went into a panic and put up some shield or second health pool at the cost of heaps less damage most people wouldn’t argue.

Just treat it as a second health pool and dps then target =)

Mob finishing is a nice idea for PVP-like (or GW1-like) PVE. But unfortunately most times it makes killing mobs even faster. Just aoe the downed one when everyone else comes to res him Feels like a hotjoin, lol

cassy.6920:

How is it a completely different discussion when it is relevant and i am providing some insight? Are you implying that you wouldnt like to see this being developed into something which is cough “skill based”? I don’t enjoy it as it is now. It makes the mobs sort of easier but i really am wishing they would develop upon this.

Sorry, didn’t think I needed to explain that.

OP starts a debate along the lines of: “don’t like it, shouldn’t be here, take it away and never do it again.”

People like me say: “I do like it, keep it up and hopefully do more with it in the future.”
I never said it was perfect or couldn’t be improved on. I just wanted to voice that I do like it, and don’t think it should be removed.

Your saying you like the idea, but think it’s boring the way it is. You want it to be improved on, which is an entirely different discussion than “should it be in the game at all?”

From what you have said it seems you like the “idea” which means you are in favor of it being in game. But you would like them to do more with it. The ideal solution would be to create a thread, something like “Ways to improve Mob down state:”

Rather than focusing on my post about liking the idea. My opinion is not inferior to yours just because the current implementation isn’t good enough for you yet.

Monkey Fritz.9052:

cassy.6920:

How is it a completely different discussion when it is relevant and i am providing some insight? Are you implying that you wouldnt like to see this being developed into something which is cough “skill based”? I don’t enjoy it as it is now. It makes the mobs sort of easier but i really am wishing they would develop upon this.

Sorry, didn’t think I needed to explain that.

OP starts a debate along the lines of: “don’t like it, shouldn’t be here, take it away and never do it again.”

People like me say: “I do like it, keep it up and hopefully do more with it in the future.”
I never said it was perfect or couldn’t be improved on. I just wanted to voice that I do like it, and don’t think it should be removed.

Your saying you like the idea, but think it’s boring the way it is. You want it to be improved on, which is an entirely different discussion than “should it be in the game at all?”

From what you have said it seems you like the “idea” which means you are in favor of it being in game. But you would like them to do more with it. The ideal solution would be to create a thread, something like “Ways to improve Mob down state:”

Rather than focusing on my post about liking the idea. My opinion is not inferior to yours just because the current implementation isn’t good enough for you yet.

Sigh, so now just trying to discuss and shed some light on the topic with my insight implies that im totally off topic? I’ll just lay it off here then. Many internets for you.

I like it and hope they include them to all mobs.

Players like to distinguish themselves through all certain ways, finishers is one of those. Personally, I like the ‘Mortal Kombat’ style approach. Arenanet introduces finishers to PvE because from a business perspective they can make an extra buck. This makes perfect sense.

However, the execution could be more thorough. Personally, I’d prefer to see the finisher requirement only on Champions. First, that would make finishers feel more special. Second, easier enemies usually take the same amount of time to kill as to finish, which can be perceived as a waste of time.

I am surprised to see lots of people actually like this in pve content.
There is no real reason to it to exist in its current state in PVE.
You get swarmed in PVE, you get lots of AOE in PVE and mostly of all you can be downed as well.
Now lets see what it actually brings to PVE
1) Very long and unnecesary animation for every enemy that needs to be downed, while he heals and you get kitten kicked by his friends. Yes its not 1 vs 1, its more likely 2 or 3 or even 5 vs 1player.
2) While you start animation – there is not way out, you loose the momentum and control over your character and stay in 1 place for a long time. That means that you eat lots of aoe and avoidable damage.
3) Once you downed – you won’t rally when downing an enemy. Thats right – you can down 100 enemies and non of them will give you rally if you get downed in the proccess which leads to death(defeated state), because dps in downed state is verry low, not even mediocre and enemies also get resistanse in downed state.
So all in all its bad for PVE and only makes you loose more time than you actually would.
I am fine with enemies healing and not going dead fast, but having separate phase is tottaly not worth it in its current state. Also it has no reason why some mobs do not have it, while other do.
It should be removed or massivly improved to suit PVE content better. Currently its garbage as a whole downed system.

I like it. I went solo against a Toxic Portal and downed a nightmare court. Damage from the surrounding mobs forced me to retreat and heal up. A Krait went over and healed the guy I downed and he returned to the fight. I had a real fight on my hands, not a “Press 1-5 to win” game. I had to pay attention to what was going on. I had to blast away the other mobs to finish off a nightmare courtier. This made it challenging!

That said of that fun and engaging fight, I echo the prior statements of this thread : only certain mobs should have a downed state. It should be rare, perhaps a bit less than what is now. This is a good experiment of the Developers, I applaud their testing of new ground.

Ermm… You do know you don’t really have to stomp them to kill them right? You can just keep dropping your aoe on everything like you have always done.

If you really have a problem with it, just keep hitting them till they die.

All kinds of yes please. I’m really really hoping to see more mobs with downed state, personally.

Makes for interesting cooperation between mobs and mob types, much more engaging. Plus I find it really hard to believe that people are seriously complaining about a mechanic that causes mobs to group up for easy tagging. More grouping = more loot and chances to rally.

It’s especially exciting on champion mobs – imagine fights where you need to take down mobs with the capability to quickly revive downed champions. Plus again, downed state equates to brief invulnerability, and more time to tag juicy targets. It’s not like a finish is required either – when in doubt, auto it to death.

And besides, who doesn’t like feeling like a BA and driving a kill finisher into a -champion-?

The new instance so eloquently introduced the idea that these new mobs have a downed state too.

It would be great, if there were more finisher types.

Is ok, new to me, however, the finish-stealers were annoying, so I just killed normally instead … there, now steal that one!

i like the mechanic. the implementation could be improved, but i enjoyed it thoroughly when i impaled toxic guard #234 with a scarecrow finisher

and as a bonus, i got the halloween stomp achievement too!

I like it. I got to enjoy my SAB finisher.

I agree, really do not like having to “finish” mobs in PvE. It just feels pointless and annoying to spend time “finishing” a mob after killing it.

Also agree with others that it just feels like a way to sell finishers from the gem store to PvE players, instead of something that is fun by design.

Agreed, I do not like having to finish PvE enemies. At the very least, give them next to no downed HP, so that they can be DPSed down within seconds.

Ohoni.6057:

Agreed, I do not like having to finish PvE enemies. At the very least, give them next to no downed HP, so that they can be DPSed down within seconds.

Actually, they were being DPSed down in seconds on my server. I think one of the reasons why you have to defeat them once downed is to give people time to get hits in so they are credited for the kill.

Sure, the “Finish Them!” is all fun and nice… when you have tens of players next to you burning down everything in a matter of seconds, excluding champions.

But when it turns into a ghost town… and you’re alone, and nobody wants to do with you, then what? Spike them— and have 3 – 4 ridonkulous debuff-spammy npcs beating on your hide til you’re downed. And you can’t kill the “downed” bugger when you’re downed, either. Rally DENIED.

nice addition imo – that and enemies can dodge! mindblown

I love it! Give this feature to every (at least) humanoid creature in PvE! Also I like that those toxic guys feel like they actually use their skills, and I mean skills, not just one ability spam. Great update, it should be there since launch. :-)