"Finish Them!" in PVE -- no, please?
It’s a good way to add more depth to combat, so long as it’s a varied kind of thing and doesn’t apply to every single enemy.
The other thing is we really need way more finishers to express our characters in a more unique way.
For starters, there could be profession and personality based finishers.
@ nenthil: pvp has it’s own currencies (badges and glory) so you can use them to buy pretty much whatever you want, or convert them into gold if needed. Instead, we have pve players doing a pvp-exclusive move for absolutely no benefit at all. After the 200th Toxic Assassin, ‘Finish Them!’ is at best tedious. You also have 2 other game modes to ‘show off’ your finishers which serve no purpose in pve whatsoever.
@ nenthil: pvp has it’s own currencies (badges and glory) so you can use them to buy pretty much whatever you want, or convert them into gold if needed. Instead, we have pve players doing a pvp-exclusive move for absolutely no benefit at all. After the 200th Toxic Assassin, ‘Finish Them!’ is at best tedious. You also have 2 other game modes to ‘show off’ your finishers which serve no purpose in pve whatsoever.
Oh please do tell how do you convert glory into gold cause I must be really stupid not to see that. And let’s skip the unidentified dye thing (I have been doing them for months and only got 1 abyss and a lot of crappy ones). Still to buy finishers for pvp you need gems that means gold or rl money. Same thing for armor and blacklion weapon skins if you want them in your locker.
Not to mention back skins which require spvp players to do pve achievements.
Sure we can play without those things but same goes with pve players. They can play without whining about that one little thing anet made them do that they don’t like.
(edited by Nenthil.4312)
[…]
This means they can afford to reduce the HP of these mobs and tune them in more ways, whereas before, their main answer to making PvE more challenging is:
GIVE THEM MORE HEALTH
Hope that helps you see this topic from a new perspective.
This. Currently, in dungeons there’s spots with one too many elites. A couple of elites along a champion and a bunch of veterans and normal ones is fine. 10 elites spamming their two one-hit-kill skills is not.
By giving them downed state, they can decrease their stupid stats to something reasonable, and you can’t just stack and spam skills like now, as when you are centered on a target another enemy may use a revive skill and bring back the elite you just downed.
This forces the need to dynamically switch targets and adapt to the situation, and the more of that we get, the more engaging combat is, and the harder it is for people that just mindlessly use skills on recharge.
Finishers in PvP are terrible. They slow down the game and make it less fun. I have the SAB finisher for WvW, but have zero interest in using it in PvE. Lets hope this isn’t a permanent feature.
I find the finishing animation on the Nightmare Court enemies to be a visceral experience, and I think Anet has learned the proper % of enemies that should be “downable”. In Scarlet’s robotic rampage, it was tiresome to stomp every gear, so everyone mostly let them respawn. Here, it’s more like a token reward and less like a painful chore. Not to mention it makes the enemies feel more serious in that they could potentially get up.
Gray Drury, Golemancer of Jade Quarry.
Currently the no topic is winning over the yes topic by quite a bit.
I think the people have spoken.
“I am Evon Gnashblade and this message is acceptable to me.”
Currently the no topic is winning over the yes topic by quite a bit.
I think the people have spoken.
If you’re counting on posts without looking at their content, yes. However, looking at the content of the posts, it’s about a 50/50 split. However this doesn’t represent the people who don’t frequent the forums (IE most players).
[hS]
PvE Main – Zar Poisonclaw – Daredevil
WvW Main – Ghost Mistcaller – Herald
PvE Main – Zar Poisonclaw – Daredevil
WvW Main – Ghost Mistcaller – Herald
Jumping on corpses is not my idea of fun. I find it humiliating and a terrible waste of time.
And I don’t want my already overloaded screen to be filled by other particles from finishers. Also there are too many actions for a single F key.
I honestly don’t think it adds anything to my experience, it just takes mobs longer to kill. Most of the time I don’t like it when people claim that the reason is Anet wants to sell stuff in the gem store, but I really do think that this is the reason why the finishers are now available in PvE.
~Shirin Shi (Silvari Necro)
TFG Os Northern Shiverpeaks
Just for clarification. I read 2 pages skipped the rest.
It’s a rather interesting thing to see. Quite honestly I was too angry and half way whiskeied when I was playing this yesterday, but giving it a second chance…I’m still not interested in it staying in PvE. Maybe if they Shorten the amount of time it takes to channel the stupid execution or give us a quick finish kill.
Believe you me Anet and forum readers, posters, and players I LOVE executing people, monsters, and other creatures of nasty habits. But, I come from other games where “finishing” off players/bots was fun. Risky, but fun. I love kicking over some down Sod and beating his face in multiply times over and over and over while everyone around me is kicking him, slapping him, hell even tag him with a grenade and what not. Too see that final punch hit KANTUS ( OMG I HATE that guy player or bot he is the worse kitten locust to face in Multi player!!) in the face to watch as his brains, skull pieces, even his Eye roll across the red floor is great….but this game don’t have this kind of thing.
So unless Anet plans on reducing the amount of time it takes to finish them or add graphic ,gory Violence(they won’t) , I’ll just ignore it and go about my gaming elsewhere.
Again interesting to see this. Just not my shot of whiskey.
PS: Most likely some Mod will come in Edit my post and infract me. So it’s all good.
Scotch and Pills, what could possibly go wrong? – Max Payne
Did you ever stop and think that in order to do the Halloween finisher achievment some people didn’t want to go into either WvW or the heart of the mists?
Sometimes when they implement things such as this it is to try to make the purely PvEers happy. Maybe deal with it for now and when the Halloween is over then complain. For now though I am sure many players that didn’t know how to complete the achievement will be happy they can finally do it.
Because it was real hard to go into the heart of the mists and kill the class combat trainers over and over again, right?
Is it better to out-monster the monster or to be quietly devoured?
Dragonbrand – Level 80 – Human Ranger
Dragonbrand – Level 80 – Human Ranger
It would be much more convincing if the enemies that we can ‘finish’ could also finish us, otherwise it’s just a wasted mechanic.
Though I don’t mind this new release, I really didn’t care much for this specific addition.
If we have to include this then only FINISH HIM! on the Veterans or Champs, but not the line troopers.
OK, so ignore my post above – THIS is a good idea. If it’s left on the trash mobs, though, it’s just gonna do nothing but slow the gameplay down and be annoying.
I’d prefer it if the mobs didn’t go into downed state myself. It’s fun for a while, but then it just starts to drag the fights out. Plus, as some people have mentioned, it’s a bit immersion breaking to see dozens of players running around stomping enemies with giant 8-bit explosions, bunny flags, laser cannons, cow rears and what-not.
That said, I don’t mind if a few special enemies go into downed state as a special mechanic (like for a boss fight). It’s just that having ALL enemies have it gets tedious. (And it also feels weird that the Nightmare Courtiers get it, but the Krait don’t. What, are the Krait somehow inferior for not being humanoids? Do they just give up and die faster?)
EDIT: Although, what Atlas suggested above is a good idea. Maybe only have Elites and Champions have a FINISH HIM! requirement. I think Vets should still not have the requirement.
(edited by Zaxares.5419)
down state rocks. +1 for anet.
enemies should also sometimes prevent you from finishing also, or even finish you.
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
i agree with other dude. they should also be able to finish you some and sometimes prevent you from finishing them, force you to dodge, etc.
only really tough enemies should be finished i think.
Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base.”
I liked it, if nothing else for the surprise, and the chance to get my Halloween achievement. My only complaint, upon playing the first instance in Kessex Hills, was that while my Sylvari enemies went into downed, my Seraph allies just went straight into defeated. Being able to res them as quickly as a downed player might have made it more worthwhile to pay attention to their status. Though I did notice that Kasmeer got me up from downed once during the boss fight… <3<3<3
Ceterum censeo Sentim Punicam esse delendam
I think it is awesome that the mobs run to their buddies to try and revive them before they die, and you can’t just faceroll everything in a zerg without a second thought.
You can’t? And here i thought that all the mobs running to the same spot to revive a downed one make it even easier to kill them.
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Remember, remember, 15th of November
I solo PVE’d many a toon to 80. This is called strategy. If youre fighting enemies that you think might down you, maaaaybe you should tag a deer or something first and bring it over to the enemy so you have something to rally off of. I did this with lvl 60 toons in level 70 and 80 areas. AOE everything and kite a neutral in case I need to rally. I know, I know, its too hard for most people. Its beyond pressing 1. silly me
Please spare me the condescension. It’s rare that I get downed in the open world, but I’m able to realise there are different levels of play. And seriously.. aggroing a deer in case you might need to rally to work around the mechanics if say all “normal” mobs had to be finished in order to be killed? Really? What a lame way to have to work around something.
Finishing can work fine in group play. I don’t think it works well where people are supposed to be able to solo (the person I was replying to seemed to be suggesting that all mobs have it everywhere) as it then nullifies the rally system.
I find it really odd to use a wvw finishing move in pve. After all, in wvw it’s an actual player ur finishing so it has a smidge of significance but in pve, mobs are not normally anything special or unique. It feels out of place and i can’t help but think that anet are tying to bring the 2 game modes closer together.
Considering the mobs don’t really do anything in their downed state to me it just looks like an up-sell for gem store finishers for pvers.
The mobs will get healed by other mobs. When a toxic nightmare mob goes down, a krait comes over to revive them. If you don’t kill the mob all the way fast enough or stomp them, they will be revived and keep fighting.
The obstacle is the path.
I solo PVE’d many a toon to 80. This is called strategy. If youre fighting enemies that you think might down you, maaaaybe you should tag a deer or something first and bring it over to the enemy so you have something to rally off of. I did this with lvl 60 toons in level 70 and 80 areas. AOE everything and kite a neutral in case I need to rally. I know, I know, its too hard for most people. Its beyond pressing 1. silly me
Please spare me the condescension. It’s rare that I get downed in the open world, but I’m able to realise there are different levels of play. And seriously.. aggroing a deer in case you might need to rally to work around the mechanics if say all “normal” mobs had to be finished in order to be killed? Really? What a lame way to have to work around something.
Finishing can work fine in group play. I don’t think it works well where people are supposed to be able to solo (the person I was replying to seemed to be suggesting that all mobs have it everywhere) as it then nullifies the rally system.
Who’s being condescending, here?
- Thieves gain stealth by tagging deer and other non-essential mobs all the time.
- Necros kill non-essential mobs to make sure they have a good amount of life force before starting an important fight.
- Warriors do it to gain adrenaline before a more important fight. Also for warriors, some mobs are spawned from another mob and you cannot rally from using Vengeance them, so having a creature to rally off of is smart.
- I often let mobs aggro onto other animals so they leave me alone as I move through a zone.
It is indeed called strategy, just as the poster said. It’s a valid and common, at that. Other than “I don’t like the way you play” you don’t seem to have an argument.
Mob AI isn’t terribly spectacular. No player would fall for the ridiculous things we do to PvE mobs. Maybe giving mobs a down state is only fair, since players get one. Especially if mob AI is such that they will try to revive each other (which they do: krait will try to revive toxic courtiers).
This introduces a new level of strategy because you cannot simply and thoughtlessly kill a mob, grab your loot, and move on. Interrupting or stopping a revival and getting in the stomp makes combat more engaging and more difficult. And considering how easy PvE combat has been, that’s not a bad thing.
The obstacle is the path.
So much… Baseless whining…
Grind Wars 2: Heart of Tears
It’s simply not the same (for me).
“FINISHING” another player is … somewhat satisfying (and I am not even a PvP player).
“FINISHING” a … mobile … a mob … a not-even-a-thing is lackluster for me.
But I’m happy for the people that can showcase their PvP accomplishments now in PvE – hey maybe that will entice someone to enter competitive PvP.
One thing I know however, it does not entice me to buy “finishers” just because it doesn’t feel right in that environment.
That said I think it’s great that Anet is willing to shake things up and try stuff out!
“Whose Kitten is this?” – “It’s a Charr baby.”
“Whose Charr is this?”- “Ted’s.”
“Who’s Ted?”- “Ted’s dead, baby. Ted’s dead.”
“Whose Charr is this?”- “Ted’s.”
“Who’s Ted?”- “Ted’s dead, baby. Ted’s dead.”
Completely don’t mind the mobs having a downed state. In a one on one situation it can give us a “finish him” fun with you pvp spike, and in fights against multiple opponents I can just keep shooting/stabbing/whatever a bit longer.
No objections from me, I think it’s kind of nice and gives me a reason to do some pvp to get a bear finisher.
Finish Him for PvE…Why?
- Now after removing all the Baddie’s HP I have to take another 2 seconds to kill him?
- Your doing one of the Kessex Hills Thistle events with lots of mobs and 8 people assist in killing a Baddie. Each one hits Finish Him. Now you have 8 people wasting time doing the 2 second animation when only One actually does the kill. That is 8 people times 2 seconds or 16 seconds of WASTED time better used to killing the rest of the Bad Guys.
Zero Sum Gain as far as I am concerned.
Copied my post from similar thread
It is indeed called strategy, just as the poster said. It’s a valid and common, at that. Other than “I don’t like the way you play” you don’t seem to have an argument.
The poster can play any way he like. Others shouldn’t have to play the way he likes to work around a situation where all pve mobs must be downed. We’re talking hypotheticals here, not what is actually in the game. The person I first replied to seemed to want the down mechanic for everything. They wished it had been in from the beginning of the game. And I sure do have an argument for that not being a good thing for solo players as it would mostly nullify the rally system. How could a player rally if in order to completely kill a mob, it must be finished (what if this even applied to the deer)? You can’t do that if you were downed at the same time the mob was downed. If mobs can help rez each other, but the player doesn’t have anyone to help rez him/her, that’s a problem. Some of us may not have issues with getting down or dying, especially at higher levels, but others might, especially newer players. The rally system can be an excellent system for a player to be able to turn the fight around.
Look, I don’t really have a problem with the toxic nightmare court needing to be finished. I find it slightly annoying and tiresome and more to do with selling finishers, I’d rather not have to do it, but I can deal with it. I suppose it’s fine for ANet to add this in certain situations (like the Scarlet instance in Divinity’s Reach. It added a bit of interesting challenge). What I was objecting to was it being injected into the whole game.. making it where EVERY mob would need to be finished as someone was suggesting. But yes, I do think having to drag a deer into the fight in to potentially rally off is silly as that would basically be attempting to work around poor design. What would one do if there was no deer around?
So no, it’s not at all about me not liking how others play. People can do what they like. I find it funny you’re throwing that at me when I’m blatantly stating that I realise people have different levels of skill. It would seem I’m advocating for a broader player base, inclusive of low and high skill.
(edited by Lothirieth.3408)
I liked it, if nothing else for the surprise, and the chance to get my Halloween achievement. My only complaint, upon playing the first instance in Kessex Hills, was that while my Sylvari enemies went into downed, my Seraph allies just went straight into defeated. Being able to res them as quickly as a downed player might have made it more worthwhile to pay attention to their status. Though I did notice that Kasmeer got me up from downed once during the boss fight… <3<3<3
This is partially my complaint as well. Give our AI allies a down state as well. This will make certain events that are hard due to escorting easier if the morale doesn’t fall unless they’re actually KO’d, not downed.
[hS]
PvE Main – Zar Poisonclaw – Daredevil
WvW Main – Ghost Mistcaller – Herald
PvE Main – Zar Poisonclaw – Daredevil
WvW Main – Ghost Mistcaller – Herald
Oh, downed allies sounds definitely nice.
Some events are very easy because the NPC gets defeated and you can just revive them and go on.
Others are too hard because there’s heavy pressure and the event fails if the NPC gets defeated, but GW2 is not designed to keep another creature alive like an elementalist, monk or ritualist can do in GW1. Even using CCs or grabbing aggro, these guys may eventually get defeated if there’s not enough people to take care of the enemy waves.
The solution to both situations is the downed state and failure upon defeat. By making the NPC downed, it gives to the easy ones a danger feel and risk as there’s still time to revive the guy, but an enemy that gets too close may try and finish them.
For the harder ones, it adds a small leeway once the NPC gets downed, to take care of enemies and revive the guy before is too late, instead directly ending on defeat.
And gives more reasons to consider revival skills that practically no one brings at all in open maps.
I agree it’s pretty stupid to add this, but it sure is funny seeing all those rabbits
I like the finishers! Gives a sense of “Ya MoFo!!! I got you” However, I wish it didn’t take a whole 4 seconds to complete the animation. Especially when you have a mob of 4 on you!
Are you kidding me? This is the best thing that’s happened in a long time. You know how when you down a sylvari and then some krait runs over to res them? Yeah, they don’t like to stop trying. So if one were to, I don’t know, drop an AoE on the downed mob, you could get two kills for the price of one. More importantly, this shifts the focus away from lelelellelelelelzerker and lelelelleehealthpools towards what could potentially be interesting gameplay that allows you to prioritise disabling /not necessarily killing/ the biggest problem first and dealing a ton of damage to the poor saps who try to get him back in the fight. I don’t know, maybe I’m insane for wanting gameplay with more depth than autoattack x guys till they die?
I empathise with the immersion breaking comment earlier on. It just doesn’t feel right and fit right with the game in pve. Unlike in pvp, the mob is still dead – it isn’t going to get rezzed by anything nearby so it serves no purpose. If the mobs could rez down allies…then we could have something more interesting.
I’m enjoying the feel and atmosphere of this update – it has the darkened tone you would expect for a World fighting turmoil, corruption and evil, butthe stranger finisher and banner make it too cartoony for this setting.
I personally found it a definite plus to this update and was pleasantly surprised the first time the “Finish Them” option popped up … I was like, “Oh yeah, in yo FACE”. And I was even more surprised to see the new and improved NC using downed skills on me, as well as new and improved Krait rushing over to rez ’em. It made the combat seem more intense.
That being said, though, I don’t think this should be rolled out to the majority of other areas of PvE as it could easily go the route of too much of a good thing. And for the mobs that have now been updated to have a downed state and the ability to be rezzed, I think it’s only fair that they can “Finish” the players as well. Shoot, give ’em their own finishers to use that are completely different.
Overall, a nice inclusion in this chapter of the LW, and I look forward to more updates that have similar changes introduced.
“If you can’t beat them, get a bigger stick.”
- Some random quote -
The Walkers and the Whispers, ANVIL ROCK
- Some random quote -
The Walkers and the Whispers, ANVIL ROCK
I like the Finisher. It adds an extra mechanic in fighting PvE mobs. Normally PvE in GW2 is something a person does while watching a movie or something. You spam a bunch of keys at the biggest group, and hope that you are killing enough monsters for the loot.
With a Finisher, you actually have to pay a bit more attention because if you don’t Finish them there is a slight chance they can come back to life.
I think ANet is on the right track, and only needs to add more onto this.
Server- Blackgate
Characters- Levicus (Ele); Levicus Gear (Eng);
Levicus Shield (War)
Characters- Levicus (Ele); Levicus Gear (Eng);
Levicus Shield (War)
Did you ever stop and think that in order to do the Halloween finisher achievment some people didn’t want to go into either WvW or the heart of the mists?
Yes, i did, so i checked – they don’t give points for that achievement.
Yes, I did, so I checked. I finished my stomping good time yesterday, by only stomping in PvE. Be sure to activate the right finisher…
I like it. Especially that other enemies assist. It makes sense and it adds a bit more tactics to combat when you actually have to make sure the enemy is down before his allies revive him. Of course it’s pointless if it’s just a single foe you are facing.
I empathise with the immersion breaking comment earlier on. It just doesn’t feel right and fit right with the game in pve. Unlike in pvp, the mob is still dead – it isn’t going to get rezzed by anything nearby so it serves no purpose. If the mobs could rez down allies…then we could have something more interesting.
Actually I did see them ressing each other. And I’ve seen them crawl back up when they didn’t get finished.
I dislike “Click F to finish.” Since I can finish a mob by attacking, I’d be OK if I could disable seeing the prompt. If I cannot disable the prompt, I’m not OK with this.
If this mechanic spreads to existing content, and gives the mobs a bigger health pool, I’d also not be OK with it.
I empathise with the immersion breaking comment earlier on. It just doesn’t feel right and fit right with the game in pve. Unlike in pvp, the mob is still dead – it isn’t going to get rezzed by anything nearby so it serves no purpose. If the mobs could rez down allies…then we could have something more interesting.
Actually I did see them ressing each other. And I’ve seen them crawl back up when they didn’t get finished.
I’ve only seen it mentioned once in this thread, but they are dodging too. Not a lot, but enough to surprise me – nearly got ganked the first time I saw that, was too shocked. ;-)
The strategy of adding unique PvP/Character-type skills in certain PvE mobs (Enemy and perhaps Ally) seems to be a sound one. With any luck it will mitigate the ever increasing ‘trash mob / huge HP mob’ problem seen in dungeons and replace it with smaller, more integrated groups to fight.
“The Meta Game does not stop at the game. Ever.” — Me
I like to view MMOs through the lazy eye of a Systems Admin, and the critical eye of a
Project Manager. You’ve been warned. ;-)
I like to view MMOs through the lazy eye of a Systems Admin, and the critical eye of a
Project Manager. You’ve been warned. ;-)
OK, how’s THIS for weird… there are finishers for certain toxic mobs in PvE and now there are various toxic mobs in portions of WVWVW (and bloody Scarlett’s Hologram, for that matter) and NO finishers for THOSE toxics.
wut?
I like it a lot actually. Its only the Sylvari that get downed and only the Krait that revive I think. If all the mobs went into a downed state or revived it would annoy me a lot. How it stands now I think is nice, plus I can show off my finisher I got a while ago.
I was just thinking how fun this would be if all humanoid mobs required a stomp. I get to use my niffty finisher and I also can’t just nuke an area and be on my merry way. If I don’t down’em, the other npc’s will rez them. Cool.
Vile Necromancer||Defender of the Beastgate||Slayer of Moa’s
I really liked this, i hope they add this to all the friendly npc guards and patrols. Also noticed though that when they get downed they don’t do anything, just sit there until you finish them rather than throw stuff at you like you can when downed.
But ya, i wouldn’t mind this at all if they used it more throughout the game on special types of enemies.
My only issue is i used up the last of my scarecrow finishers on them so i was unable to finish the scarecrow finisher achievement. They didn’t really think that thing through when they added these mobs.
Guess I’ll throw in that I like the downed state in PvE. I like it in PvP and in WvW and it naturally fits in PvE. Not all mobs, but the ones that are to be considered as intelligent as we are. Why should only our characters have a downed state, Nightmare Court is as much a Sylvari as I am. It takes what, 2-3 secs to do a finisher? Find something else to complain about.
You also don’t have to do a finisher, you can keep DPSing if you really want to. Just imagine it has an addition 20k HP and is stationary. I’m sure that’s what most of you would prefer anyway. Mindless button mashing.
I won’t stop because I can’t stop.
It’s a medical condition, they say its terminal….
It’s a medical condition, they say its terminal….
The way i look at it, if npc’s cant have a downed state in pve you shouldn’t also. People will cry about any update… They could add guildhalls and people would whine about them or they could add GVG and people would whine.
~One mans magic is another mans engineering.
RNG engineer~
I like it. It would actually be kinda cool for certain boss fights in dungeons too, requiring team co-ordination to stomp a boss.
However, this is bad for Open World mobs. Save it for tougher enemies.
To me, finisher’s pull me out of the flow of combat. In sPvP, where the number of combatant’s are low, it’s ok. There’s also the “haha” aspect toward the other players. There is no such moment to an NPC in PvE.
If there was a story specific finisher, like a special item to kill that creature, it would make finishers in PvE plausible. Though the usage would have to be tempered and kept low. Otherwise, it would make finisher’s an annoyance really fast.
[AwM] of Jade Quarry.
Makes ranged professions redundant IMO. I don’t WANT to run in on my ranger every time I kill something. Seems pretty stupid, but hey, gotta sell those finishers to PvE people for SOMETHING.