Guild Wars 2

So Marjory is now an expert in poisons. You think Anet’s slowling going to make her into a Mary Sue to counter Scarlet’s Villain Sue?

Lord Kuru.3685:

So Marjory is now an expert in poisons. You think Anet’s slowling going to make her into a Mary Sue to counter Scarlet’s Villain Sue?

idk…she is supposed to be some kind of detective right?
Some kind of expertise in poisons would seem to come with the territory.

As a detective (and a necromancer to boot), Marjory having knowledge of poisons makes sense, just as Kasmeer’s knowledge of illusions/veils/barriers fits with her being a mesmer.

And, as Danikat said, it needs to be made more clear what characters specialize in before putting them in a story. (Remember Trehearne summoning 5 flesh golems and an elite shadow fiend, then never doing it ever again?)

I’ll say right now, that Marjory seemed fun before, so I don’t know if she’s lame now. But Anet has (writing wise) definitely had a suspicious focus on females & high number of occasion of making female characters “totally awesome”, male characters weak or lame, & if they can, they do the former at the expense of the latter purposefully. The ambient npc chatter is rife with it.

Necromancers are quite experts of poisons imo…

Piecekeeper.4361:

You’re character has the respect of their home nation, has helped defeat Zaitan, is involved in every major world event and killed thousands of villainous creatures, and can do just about anything you can imagine.

OMG!!! Every single one of our characters is a Mary Sue!!!

We were the demons all along!

Nilkemia.8507:

And, as Danikat said, it needs to be made more clear what characters specialize in before putting them in a story. (Remember Trehearne summoning 5 flesh golems and an elite shadow fiend, then never doing it ever again?)

If you take a second and watch traherne you could see he was a necro rather early. All his attack particles are black. Which is the necro’s thing. And the reason Anet said they wouldn’t release weapons/skins/dyes that changed the attack particles of characters, because then you couldn’t id them based on that. Which is kinda nitpicking I know.

In Marjory and Kasmeer’s case, Marjory wears black and green robes (signature of the necro, really) and while Kasmeer isn’t as clear on first meeting her (assuming you’ve never met them before) you may notice her using a pink stealthing on the two of them during the intro story mission, which is a mesmer thing.

DarksunG.9537:

I’ll say right now, that Marjory seemed fun before, so I don’t know if she’s lame now. But Anet has (writing wise) definitely had a suspicious focus on females & high number of occasion of making female characters “totally awesome”, male characters weak or lame, & if they can, they do the former at the expense of the latter purposefully. The ambient npc chatter is rife with it.

This (the bit in bold) is exactly my point. My post was in response to the OP saying Marjory is an expert in something (poisons) therefore she is a Mary Sue, which is a huge jump in logic because there is a lot more to it than that.

(It’s always debateable too because Mary Sue has never been a clearly defined term and when dealing with fantasy, particularly high fantasy, you have to make a lot of allowances for the world your story is set in and then it gets complicating trying to decide what’s allowable and what isn’t and to what extent.)

Shiren.9532:

(first she’s some kind of Ghost Whispering detective, now she’s a poison expert).

Undead and Poison are two things necros are known for…

Phrixscreoth.6895:

Nilkemia.8507:

And, as Danikat said, it needs to be made more clear what characters specialize in before putting them in a story. (Remember Trehearne summoning 5 flesh golems and an elite shadow fiend, then never doing it ever again?)

If you take a second and watch traherne you could see he was a necro rather early. All his attack particles are black. Which is the necro’s thing. And the reason Anet said they wouldn’t release weapons/skins/dyes that changed the attack particles of characters, because then you couldn’t id them based on that. Which is kinda nitpicking I know.

In Marjory and Kasmeer’s case, Marjory wears black and green robes (signature of the necro, really) and while Kasmeer isn’t as clear on first meeting her (assuming you’ve never met them before) you may notice her using a pink stealthing on the two of them during the intro story mission, which is a mesmer thing.

….You do realize I’m referring to things that aren’t obvious by looking at them, right? I can’t tell if you’re serious or not.

She’s a necromancer so she knows about poisons. But her profession is that of detective, not poison PhD — you would think there’d be someone more qualified than her.

We’ll see in future episodes, but I would not be surprised at all if she is revealed to have even more expertises.

Nilkemia.8507:

Phrixscreoth.6895:

Nilkemia.8507:

And, as Danikat said, it needs to be made more clear what characters specialize in before putting them in a story. (Remember Trehearne summoning 5 flesh golems and an elite shadow fiend, then never doing it ever again?)

If you take a second and watch traherne you could see he was a necro rather early. All his attack particles are black. Which is the necro’s thing. And the reason Anet said they wouldn’t release weapons/skins/dyes that changed the attack particles of characters, because then you couldn’t id them based on that. Which is kinda nitpicking I know.

In Marjory and Kasmeer’s case, Marjory wears black and green robes (signature of the necro, really) and while Kasmeer isn’t as clear on first meeting her (assuming you’ve never met them before) you may notice her using a pink stealthing on the two of them during the intro story mission, which is a mesmer thing.

….You do realize I’m referring to things that aren’t obvious by looking at them, right? I can’t tell if you’re serious or not.

Don’t worry, I’m not being serious.

Lord Kuru.3685:

So Marjory is now an expert in poisons. You think Anet’s slowling going to make her into a Mary Sue to counter Scarlet’s Villain Sue?

Hmm really makes you think. It’s not like the game isn’t based on Destiny’s Edge or anything, a group of super skilled people, or that your character isn’t the same way.

Don’t get why people keep dragging this up.

Phrixscreoth.6895:

Nilkemia.8507:

And, as Danikat said, it needs to be made more clear what characters specialize in before putting them in a story. (Remember Trehearne summoning 5 flesh golems and an elite shadow fiend, then never doing it ever again?)

If you take a second and watch traherne you could see he was a necro rather early. All his attack particles are black. Which is the necro’s thing. And the reason Anet said they wouldn’t release weapons/skins/dyes that changed the attack particles of characters, because then you couldn’t id them based on that. Which is kinda nitpicking I know.

In Marjory and Kasmeer’s case, Marjory wears black and green robes (signature of the necro, really) and while Kasmeer isn’t as clear on first meeting her (assuming you’ve never met them before) you may notice her using a pink stealthing on the two of them during the intro story mission, which is a mesmer thing.

Psst… Legendaries are weapons which change attacks

Logan is arguably the best in the game (lore) at running away and people don’t call him out for being a mary sue.

IceBlink.4317:

Logan is arguably the best in the game (lore) at running away and people don’t call him out for being a mary sue.

I think everyone in Destiny’s Edge has been called a Mary Sue at least 50 times.

Lord Kuru.3685:

So Marjory is now an expert in poisons. You think Anet’s slowling going to make her into a Mary Sue to counter Scarlet’s Villain Sue?

Doubtful. Yes, she tries to sell herself as someone cool, mysterious and knowledgeable, but she really comes across as someone not too bright, but with delusions of grandeur.
Which incidentally makes her a good pair for Kasmeer, who looks to be a bright person pretending to be a dumb blonde. So, Marjory’s complete opposite.

You really need to look into the meaning of the term Mary Sue if you think this makes a character a Mary Sue. She is a detective and it makes sense for her to have these skills in her line of work. Even more so if people like Logan would come to her for aid. Her character is just fine.

However.. the current sequence her character is in needs some work. The voices are very monotone and not very good this time compared to the last sequence she was in. The Noir sequence was just done well across the board.

Phrixscreoth.6895:

Shiren.9532:

(first she’s some kind of Ghost Whispering detective, now she’s a poison expert).

Undead and Poison are two things necros are known for…

It’s just a case of the conveniences lining up in favour of the cast. Scarlet conveniently has the obelisk shards the krait wants. No-one else had the shards but her. Somehow everyone else in Tyria is accomplishing very little yet Scarlet found time to master a bunch of disciplines training under their masters, go to all the asura colleges, engineer the Molten Alliance, subdue the Aetherblades and scheme against the Captain’s Council, be the first person to see the Eternal Alchemy, corrupt humanity’s greatest engineering achievement, align with the Nightmare Court and corrupt the Clockheart. Somehow, in all of that, Scarlet obtained the obelisk shards that the krait wanted so badly (yet the krait, who are doing nothing of importance lately, were unable to obtain them themselves).

Marjory is partnered with Kasmeer. It turns out the two skills needed to take on this new threat conveniently fall into both their wheel houses. A master mesmer (so much so that the mesmer council contacted her specifically – I don’t even think we knew she was a mesmer prior to this) to take down the illusion, and a master of toxins, to figure out how to deal with the new alliance’s toxins.

The story is full of conveniences. They have a small cast of characters, it’s inevitable.

OMG! A clearly important character in the living story is well trained/experienced in something that makes sense for their line of work (detective) AND their fighting profession (necromancer)! Clearly she is just like Scarlet who unites every enemy race she wants to and mastered all Asuran schools in record times…. and impressed even Hoelbrak’s finest smith. Really?

She’s a great detective, she’s a good necromancer, and she knows a lot about poison… does that really sound so crazy?

Lpfan.3578:

She’s a great detective, she’s a good necromancer, and she knows a lot about poison… does that really sound so crazy?

Well, the previous event when she showed up made me think she was rather poor necromancer, with no abilities whatsoever. This is the first time someone mentioned she’s competent at anything.
Her being smarter than Logan did not say much – after all, pretty much anyone is smarter than Logan.

(just to be clear – i agree with you that she’s no Mary Sue. I just don’t consider her one for a different reason).

Astralporing.1957:

Lpfan.3578:

She’s a great detective, she’s a good necromancer, and she knows a lot about poison… does that really sound so crazy?

Well, the previous event when she showed up made me think she was rather poor necromancer, with no abilities whatsoever. This is the first time someone mentioned she’s competent at anything.

Fair enough… maybe I should have just said she’s a good detective and a necromancer, not necessarily good. :P It still seems fitting that she would know a bit about poison.
I said great detective and good necromancer because these would be the reasons for her being important/useful in the story, but you are right she does not really show off any great abilities yet!

Is there ANYONE in the Guild Wars 2 cast who isn’t a Mary Sue?

Astralporing.1957:

Lpfan.3578:

She’s a great detective, she’s a good necromancer, and she knows a lot about poison… does that really sound so crazy?

Well, the previous event when she showed up made me think she was rather poor necromancer, with no abilities whatsoever. This is the first time someone mentioned she’s competent at anything.
Her being smarter than Logan did not say much – after all, pretty much anyone is smarter than Logan.

(just to be clear – i agree with you that she’s no Mary Sue. I just don’t consider her one for a different reason).

She is a bad Necromancer. She got owned during the first instance fights.

Doggie.3184:

Astralporing.1957:

Lpfan.3578:

She’s a great detective, she’s a good necromancer, and she knows a lot about poison… does that really sound so crazy?

Well, the previous event when she showed up made me think she was rather poor necromancer, with no abilities whatsoever. This is the first time someone mentioned she’s competent at anything.
Her being smarter than Logan did not say much – after all, pretty much anyone is smarter than Logan.

(just to be clear – i agree with you that she’s no Mary Sue. I just don’t consider her one for a different reason).

She is a bad Necromancer. She got owned during the first instance fights.

So did Trehearne.

Mmmm. I don’t think a Necro or a detective knowing things about poisons is that far fetched.

Dual.8953:

Mmmm. I don’t think a Necro or a detective knowing things about poisons is that far fetched.

pfft, you and your exceptional logic. you’re going to crush his hopes and dreams.

Doggie.3184:

She is a bad Necromancer. She got owned during the first instance fights.

Really? Only Kasmeer went down once when I did it, and only because the Oratuss decided to focus AoE on her (even when she blinked out of it, he’d just put another one down on her right away). Or is there another instance besides the intro that I haven’t seen yet?

While the effort Kasmeer and Marjory make still isn’t much, I was surprised by them dodging/blinking around and actually using more than just basic attack skills, more effort than even Destiny’s Edge tends to give.

Nilkemia.8507:

Doggie.3184:

She is a bad Necromancer. She got owned during the first instance fights.

Really? Only Kasmeer went down once when I did it, and only because the Oratuss decided to focus AoE on her (even when she blinked out of it, he’d just put another one down on her right away). Or is there another instance besides the intro that I haven’t seen yet?

When I did it Kasmeer was totally fine, and Marjory died pretty fast and layed there majority of the fight. ;x

Lord Kuru.3685:

So Marjory is now an expert in poisons. You think Anet’s slowling going to make her into a Mary Sue to counter Scarlet’s Villain Sue?

She’s a professional detective and a Necromancer. The former makes her an expert in detecting things, and the latter makes her an expert in undead necromancy and poisons (both common Necromancer abilities).

Aww…did Kasmeer try to revive her? Marjory tried to revive Kasmeer when she went down in that fight, yet another thing that most NPCs won’t do, and even then usually not during battle.

Mickey Frogeater.1470:

Is there ANYONE in the Guild Wars 2 cast who isn’t a Mary Sue?

Lord Faren.

Nilkemia.8507:

Doggie.3184:

She is a bad Necromancer. She got owned during the first instance fights.

Really? Only Kasmeer went down once when I did it, and only because the Oratuss decided to focus AoE on her (even when she blinked out of it, he’d just put another one down on her right away). Or is there another instance besides the intro that I haven’t seen yet?

While the effort Kasmeer and Marjory make still isn’t much, I was surprised by them dodging/blinking around and actually using more than just basic attack skills, more effort than even Destiny’s Edge tends to give.

In my case, neither went down. The boss was far too fond of me and my turrets for that to happen.

Nilkemia.8507:

While the effort Kasmeer and Marjory make still isn’t much, I was surprised by them dodging/blinking around and actually using more than just basic attack skills, more effort than even Destiny’s Edge tends to give.

Incoming Ally AI buff for dungeons and instances confirmed?

Honestly, I don’t see what the big issue is with the game having a bunch of female characters. Most games have mostly male characters, and players just have to put up with it. So we happen to get one game that has more females. What’s the problem?

DarksunG.9537:

I’m surprised people haven’t noticed Anet’s fixation on female characters. Most everything they do now is gurl power, down to the random npc chatter.

Mad King Thorn and the Bloody Prince are male.

That said when it comes to allies we have not had a decent male lead in a long while.

Weindrasi.3805:

Honestly, I don’t see what the big issue is with the game having a bunch of female characters. Most games have mostly male characters, and players just have to put up with it. So we happen to get one game that has more females. What’s the problem?

Other games are irrelevant, we play this one and what happens in this game is all that matters.

Unfortunately men are portrayed in two ways lately, the Logan Thackeray love struck dolt or the Lord Faren comedy act, neither portray our gender well.

Not really OP. I see Marjory Delaqua and Kasmeer Meade as Sherlock Holmes and Dr John H. Watson.

RyuDragnier.9476:

Incoming Ally AI buff for dungeons and instances confirmed?

While I hope so, I kinda doubt it.

Aedelric.1287:

DarksunG.9537:

I’m surprised people haven’t noticed Anet’s fixation on female characters. Most everything they do now is gurl power, down to the random npc chatter.

Mad King Thorn and the Bloody Prince are male.

That said when it comes to allies we have not had a decent male lead in a long while.

Other important male characters in the Living Story(since Clockwork Chaos, anyway): Braham, Vorpp, Moto, Ketto, Nimbb, Wortt, um…is that it?

I’ve noticed that female characters have been getting the focus right now, but it doesn’t bother me. Is it supposed to? (shrugs)

Nilkemia.8507:

Other important male characters in the Living Story(since Clockwork Chaos, anyway): Braham, Vorpp, Moto, Ketto, Nimbb, Wortt, um…is that it?

Does Ketto’s Lab even count? SAB is a recurring event not a true living story and the characters only really turned up for a short two minute cameo.

Aedelric.1287:

Nilkemia.8507:

Other important male characters in the Living Story(since Clockwork Chaos, anyway): Braham, Vorpp, Moto, Ketto, Nimbb, Wortt, um…is that it?

Does Ketto’s Lab even count? SAB is a recurring event not a true living story and the characters only really turned up for a short two minute cameo.

Sure it counts.

granted, it’s very little to work with now but … eh, it hasn’t been handled poorly. There’s just enough story there to make it interesting, not enough to quash potential, and you’re allowed to interpret some of the meaning for yourself. You really don’t get a lot of that in game.

I mean, regarding the genie, for example… was it programmed in? was it a virus that warped out of control? was it the super adventure box becoming self-aware? was it all just a hallucination brought about by excessive playtime? I like that they leave it open to interpretation. even if only just for now.

hell, if they have to take baby steps to get better story ideas to bounce content off of, I encourage them to do it.

You can pretty much label any and every character as a Mary Sue if you started using the extended definitions of the trope. It’s original meaning concerned having a character with highly exaggerated and positive characteristics. Maybe Scarlet fits the bill but I honestly can’t see any other character that does as well. Marjory being smart and having knowledge of poisons is not even nearly enough to make her a Mary Sue.

Aedelric.1287:

Mad King Thorn and the Bloody Prince are male.

GG, so one old character (that is awesome btw) & one new one. (he’s ok. Looks totally emo but the voice work is awesome & the bickering is great). I think ppl are totally blowing the “lol everyone is a Sue” out of proportion. Only Scarlet has been called one. lot of threads, but it’s hardly a rampant label.

Well we got the 2 strongest ally necro NPCs (one that can solo a centaur champ and one that can kill 3 krait before getting defeated) on the same map, how fancy.

I will not stand idly by while people trash talk marjory and/or lady kashmeer! They are the best characters in the game! Marjory is necro, so of course she knows about poison. Kashmeer is a mesmer, so she’s totally hip to illusions and whatnot.
In all seriousness though, they are my favorite 2 characters and I do feel like they make sense. I hope we see a LOT more of them.
Also, Girl Power FTMFW!!!

IceBlink.4317:

Mickey Frogeater.1470:

Is there ANYONE in the Guild Wars 2 cast who isn’t a Mary Sue?

Lord Faren.

Are you sure? Maybe his supoer powers from being roasted in Scarlet’s pot just haven’t kicked in yet. Maybe he’s Sailor Moon’s mysterious masked man, or maybe he’s He-Man and just waiting for his debut.

/sarcasm off

In all seriousness people, every character they give you you’re slapping ‘Mary Sue’ on. I seriously hope none of you actually read books (or even watch tv) because you’d be terribly disappointed. Every villian, every hero (male or female) is (by your people’s definition) a ‘mary sue’ because they are smart, strong, and thrown in your face.

Petra and her Dad should be investigating the new Krait menace instead of Kasmeer and Jory. That way players won’t feel intimidated.