Guild Wars 2

As much as I love the new dungeon, I must say that the achievement Grounded is extremely bad designed and all it does is encourage selfish behavior.
This is the last one I need and so far it has been a royal pain in the kitten to do simply due to its mechanics.

In the few last runs, most just needs that achievement left. So while there’s always one / two guys that don’t really care (cause they already have it or simply don’t care) and go for the platforms regardless. So the other guys that need it, will as soon as it’s safe to move to a platform, just go there and camp it. Everyone remains silent hoping another one will take the bullet so he can get the achievement.

Just in the last run, we had 4 guys waiting in the same platform for 10 minutes hoping the rest would go. Eventually me and some others went before this started to get ugly. This meant me and the two other guys losing the achievement so 1 guy could get it. It’s just awful design. Although it is in theory possible for everyone to get the achievement by perfectly avoiding the electric floors, it’s just relying too much on luck and no one is willing to risk it if there’s an easy alternative.

I know how the pattern works, but it’s just too unforgiving and it’s an achievement that is literally at the end of the dungeon. Mess up, tough luck, you have to run the whole dungeon again to get a shot at it.

Most players running this dungeon, only has the Grounded achievement left. So most players that already have Grounded, won’t be running this dungeon. Meaning you’ll be paired mostly with people that are also in need of the achievement.
I shouldn’t be relying on getting clueless / generous people just so I can benefit from them to get an achievement.

There are plenty of ways to get the achievement for more than one person per run. (eg. learning the pattern, invulnerability skills like renewed focus or mist form, mesmer portals,…)

I thought you had to stand on the platform after each go.. I have only run it 2 times but each time we all just stayed on our platform and 1 got the holo.

actually 2 can get it at the same time .

Actually, everyone CAN get it if they all avoid the bzzztness.

Get one volunteer to activate the electric panels and have everyone else make a mad-dash for the previous panels during the ~2 second down time when floors reset

IF you can get a wonderful mesmer they can port to each panel an all four can get it. You just have to find a mesmer that has it or don’t care about achievements.

Sobat.8650:

Get one volunteer to activate the electric panels and have everyone else make a mad-dash for the previous panels during the ~2 second down time when floors reset

^This.
Whenever a platform is stepped on, the electricity goes off for about two or three seconds, which is more than enough to allow people to get onto it. If their response-time is really that bad, maybe they don’t deserve the achievement (That’s why they’re called achievements, after all).

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lightning_Flash
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Infiltrator%27s_Arrow
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Blink
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Portal_Entre

FenrirSlakt.3692:

Sobat.8650:

Get one volunteer to activate the electric panels and have everyone else make a mad-dash for the previous panels during the ~2 second down time when floors reset

^This.
Whenever a platform is stepped on, the electricity goes off for about two or three seconds, which is more than enough to allow people to get onto it. If their response-time is really that bad, maybe they don’t deserve the achievement (That’s why they’re called achievements, after all).

So basically, have one guy carry the rest so they can get their ‘personal achievement’ the easy way? Surely you see the contradiction in that.

Anyways, although I appreciate all the ideas given so far. They’re mostly workarounds to a bad designed achievement and I don’t blame you. Since even if it’s just one guy that needs to do all the work, he’s still getting the bullet for the rest of the team so they can get the achievement the easy way. So the most efficient way is to have one sacrifice that does all the work, while the rest selfishly profits from it.

Which is exactly the problem I’m referring to.
You know in movies when they are like ‘If we kill these 10,000 guys, we can save millions!’ dilemma? Like it’s morally wrong but at the same time is the solution that would benefit the situation the most? This achievement is exactly like that. You get the one guy that will have to do all the work, so the four other guys can get the achievement. You sacrifice 1 for the benefit of 4.

For example, you do a run. All five players needs the achievement. You can choose to either do it the messy way by actually trying to do it properly, but in the end only 1 will manage to get it. Or you get one guy to sacrifice himself by missing out on the achievement so the other 4 can get the achievement.

It is a bad design no matter how you look at it. Especially since it’s at the very end of the dungeon, so everyone that needs it will try to get it the easy way rather than risking it.

LuRkEr.9462:

IF you can get a wonderful mesmer they can port to each panel an all four can get it. You just have to find a mesmer that has it or don’t care about achievements.

This is the stupidest thing I’ve ever heard of for an achievement that’s supposed to be about skillful navigation of a floor pattern. OP’s right, this one wasn’t thought out one bit before they just threw it in there and now people are condoning cheating to get it. They could have just as easily made it “solve the puzzle without being downed” instead of “don’t get zapped at all”…

Blackwyn.8127:

FenrirSlakt.3692:

Sobat.8650:

Get one volunteer to activate the electric panels and have everyone else make a mad-dash for the previous panels during the ~2 second down time when floors reset

^This.
Whenever a platform is stepped on, the electricity goes off for about two or three seconds, which is more than enough to allow people to get onto it. If their response-time is really that bad, maybe they don’t deserve the achievement (That’s why they’re called achievements, after all).

So basically, have one guy carry the rest so they can get their ‘personal achievement’ the easy way? Surely you see the contradiction in that.

Yes, this means that the design of the achievement is flawed. Some of the fractals achievements have the same problem.

However, if you have a group that runs dungeons together on a regular basis, taking turns is not the end of the world. We ended up doing that in some of the fractals. For example the grawl fractal: after quite a few runs where we took great care to not step in the lava pools, some of us still hadn’t got it, not knowing whether it was bugged or not. (I am now thinking that my supply crate’s turrets counted as “stepping” in the lava, which is super lame) so in the end we just ran it a few times with 1-2 people hanging back each time. In the swamp, only 3 people carry orbs anyway so there, too, it is easy to takes turns hanging back. After a bunch of honest tries that failed for no reason that we could see, I think that is legitimate.

So I don’t see a problem getting this floor achievement eventually as long as I keep playing with my regular bunch of friends, but I agree that an achievement that players essentially get (or get more easily) if they don’t play is badly designed.

it can be done. learn the pattern on the floor, it is not luck .

Thieves can also save an Elixir of Heroes steal item for the Invulnerability. ^^

It’s not bad design when it can be done by everyone without the use of portals and invulnerability skills. Just learn the patterns and yo can do it without getting hit by the electricity. It’s an achievement that takes a little thought and critical thinking which is why so many people struggle.

What is this all about? An achievement is something you earn, not something the other people of your group offer you. Learn how this floor works, learn the pattern, do your part perfectly, that’s all there is to it.

What about it taking a few run before you get it? Achievements should not be granted in a minimal amount of runs. If you can’t succeed fast, then tough luck. This has nothing to do with bad design, it has to do with you not willing to comply to what you need to do to get it.

I hear the argument that the other people in your group are as entitled as you sound. It gives for ridiculous runs it seems. Still I’d blame the people, not the design.

Ayrilana.1396:

It’s not bad design when it can be done by everyone without the use of portals and invulnerability skills. Just learn the patterns and yo can do it without getting hit by the electricity. It’s an achievement that takes a little thought and critical thinking which is why so many people struggle.

It is badly designed if it encourages players to get it by not playing. Of course it can be achieved through clever hopping and manual dexterity, but it is a lot easier to achieve by sitting it out. That is a definite design flaw.

Pixelpumpkin.4608:

Ayrilana.1396:

It’s not bad design when it can be done by everyone without the use of portals and invulnerability skills. Just learn the patterns and yo can do it without getting hit by the electricity. It’s an achievement that takes a little thought and critical thinking which is why so many people struggle.

It is badly designed if it encourages players to get it by not playing. Of course it can be achieved through clever hopping and manual dexterity, but it is a lot easier to achieve by sitting it out. That is a definite design flaw.

Whaaaaaaat? Since when being a kitten is the fault of someone else? I am so tired of the gaming community…

EDIT: censorship ftw…

Sacrai.6280:

Pixelpumpkin.4608:

Ayrilana.1396:

It’s not bad design when it can be done by everyone without the use of portals and invulnerability skills. Just learn the patterns and yo can do it without getting hit by the electricity. It’s an achievement that takes a little thought and critical thinking which is why so many people struggle.

It is badly designed if it encourages players to get it by not playing. Of course it can be achieved through clever hopping and manual dexterity, but it is a lot easier to achieve by sitting it out. That is a definite design flaw.

Whaaaaaaat? Since when being a kitten is the fault of someone else? I am so tired of the gaming community…

Since similar achievements are known to be bugged (whether or not they’re awarded is pretty inconsistent, even when you think you know exactly what to do), yes, I think part of the blame IS upon the game. (See also: “The Floor Is Lava. Don’t Step In It”, “Fancy Footwork”)

Pixelpumpkin.4608:

Sacrai.6280:

Pixelpumpkin.4608:

Ayrilana.1396:

It’s not bad design when it can be done by everyone without the use of portals and invulnerability skills. Just learn the patterns and yo can do it without getting hit by the electricity. It’s an achievement that takes a little thought and critical thinking which is why so many people struggle.

It is badly designed if it encourages players to get it by not playing. Of course it can be achieved through clever hopping and manual dexterity, but it is a lot easier to achieve by sitting it out. That is a definite design flaw.

Whaaaaaaat? Since when being a kitten is the fault of someone else? I am so tired of the gaming community…

Since similar achievements are known to be bugged (whether or not they’re awarded is pretty inconsistent, even when you think you know exactly what to do), yes, I think part of the blame IS upon the game. (See also: “The Floor Is Lava. Don’t Step In It”, “Fancy Footwork”)

This achievement is not known to be bugged.

Sacrai.6280:

Pixelpumpkin.4608:

Sacrai.6280:

Pixelpumpkin.4608:

Ayrilana.1396:

It’s not bad design when it can be done by everyone without the use of portals and invulnerability skills. Just learn the patterns and yo can do it without getting hit by the electricity. It’s an achievement that takes a little thought and critical thinking which is why so many people struggle.

It is badly designed if it encourages players to get it by not playing. Of course it can be achieved through clever hopping and manual dexterity, but it is a lot easier to achieve by sitting it out. That is a definite design flaw.

Whaaaaaaat? Since when being a kitten is the fault of someone else? I am so tired of the gaming community…

Since similar achievements are known to be bugged (whether or not they’re awarded is pretty inconsistent, even when you think you know exactly what to do), yes, I think part of the blame IS upon the game. (See also: “The Floor Is Lava. Don’t Step In It”, “Fancy Footwork”)

This achievement is not known to be bugged.

And just the very same moment, someone posts this about the other achievement in the Aetherpath that encourages players to stay behind…

A track record is a track record…

Pixelpumpkin.4608:

Sacrai.6280:

Pixelpumpkin.4608:

Sacrai.6280:

Pixelpumpkin.4608:

Ayrilana.1396:

It’s not bad design when it can be done by everyone without the use of portals and invulnerability skills. Just learn the patterns and yo can do it without getting hit by the electricity. It’s an achievement that takes a little thought and critical thinking which is why so many people struggle.

It is badly designed if it encourages players to get it by not playing. Of course it can be achieved through clever hopping and manual dexterity, but it is a lot easier to achieve by sitting it out. That is a definite design flaw.

Whaaaaaaat? Since when being a kitten is the fault of someone else? I am so tired of the gaming community…

Since similar achievements are known to be bugged (whether or not they’re awarded is pretty inconsistent, even when you think you know exactly what to do), yes, I think part of the blame IS upon the game. (See also: “The Floor Is Lava. Don’t Step In It”, “Fancy Footwork”)

This achievement is not known to be bugged.

And just the very same moment, someone posts this about the other achievement in the Aetherpath that encourages players to stay behind…

A track record is a track record…

Because most of people’s attention and mechanical skills are way below decent.

I got this one with no help at all, and my skills are BAD.

Pixelpumpkin.4608:

Sacrai.6280:

Pixelpumpkin.4608:

Sacrai.6280:

Pixelpumpkin.4608:

Ayrilana.1396:

It’s not bad design when it can be done by everyone without the use of portals and invulnerability skills. Just learn the patterns and yo can do it without getting hit by the electricity. It’s an achievement that takes a little thought and critical thinking which is why so many people struggle.

It is badly designed if it encourages players to get it by not playing. Of course it can be achieved through clever hopping and manual dexterity, but it is a lot easier to achieve by sitting it out. That is a definite design flaw.

Whaaaaaaat? Since when being a kitten is the fault of someone else? I am so tired of the gaming community…

Since similar achievements are known to be bugged (whether or not they’re awarded is pretty inconsistent, even when you think you know exactly what to do), yes, I think part of the blame IS upon the game. (See also: “The Floor Is Lava. Don’t Step In It”, “Fancy Footwork”)

This achievement is not known to be bugged.

And just the very same moment, someone posts this about the other achievement in the Aetherpath that encourages players to stay behind…

A track record is a track record…

No need to continue this discussion, I won’t change the gaming community’s mentality on this. I just hope I never run into any of the selfish people like the OP, caring about their achievements over challenge and fun.

On the other side, I fully agree with you that bugged achievements are the responsibility of the game and are frustrating for players who can’t get them. I also half agree that an achievement that you can get by doing nothing is bad design. That’s why Fancy footwork should and is supposedly awarded only if you carry a wisp.

Sacrai.6280:

I also half agree that an achievement that you can get by doing nothing is bad design.

There you go. Add the achievement to a dungeon that is like an hour long, you only get one shot at it and you can have a much higher chance at acquiring it by being selfish so players will be encouraged to selfish behavior..

That’s this thread in a nutshell and my concern to begin with.

Blackwyn.8127:

Sacrai.6280:

I also half agree that an achievement that you can get by doing nothing is bad design.

There you go. Add the achievement to a dungeon that is like an hour long, you only get one shot at it and you can have a much higher chance at acquiring it by being selfish so players will be encouraged to selfish behavior..

That’s this thread in a nutshell and my concern to begin with.

The whole purpose of this thread is the same as any thread on achievements. You want them all. No matter what. No matter what they are supposed to represent. And it doesn’t matter if you deserved them or not.

It is not what achievements are designed to be. That’s why we should never have attached material rewards to achievements in the first place. No one cared about this when the only reward was a title and a right to brag.

Now if some of you still have a sense of self-esteem, please get out of this trend and kittening work for your achievements.

An achievement is not badly designed if lazy and/or unskilled players are unwilling to make the effort to do it. I don’t get why players feel entitled to get freebie achievements. It seems they just want the ones like where you only have to talk to Caithe.

If players choose to sit on the first platform and not do anything, it’s the players fault and not Anet’s. These achievements are also permanent unlike the ones from previous living story dungeons.

Pixelpumpkin.4608:

Sacrai.6280:

Pixelpumpkin.4608:

Ayrilana.1396:

It’s not bad design when it can be done by everyone without the use of portals and invulnerability skills. Just learn the patterns and yo can do it without getting hit by the electricity. It’s an achievement that takes a little thought and critical thinking which is why so many people struggle.

It is badly designed if it encourages players to get it by not playing. Of course it can be achieved through clever hopping and manual dexterity, but it is a lot easier to achieve by sitting it out. That is a definite design flaw.

Whaaaaaaat? Since when being a kitten is the fault of someone else? I am so tired of the gaming community…

Since similar achievements are known to be bugged (whether or not they’re awarded is pretty inconsistent, even when you think you know exactly what to do), yes, I think part of the blame IS upon the game. (See also: “The Floor Is Lava. Don’t Step In It”, “Fancy Footwork”)

It’s quite often that people claim something to be bugged when they have no idea how to do the achievement or are not paying attention. Recently (last month)I saw someone claiming on map chat that the champion slayer daily was bugged. If they had read the achievement they would see it was for veterans.

I did the shaman fractal on level 1 and did not stop the entire time. I got the achievement. Others have gotten it as well. I suggest recording your attempt on video and reviewing it. It takes only one tick of damage to fail the achievement.

I have yet to see people fail the fancy footwork due to a bug. They just don’t know how to do it. Every person that I have encountered have gotten this one after I explained it. You DO NOT get this if you trigger a trap (obviously. I tell them they must not trigger a trap the entire time they’re in that fractal. You also DO NOT get it if you just sit there waiting for people to run the orbs. You must run the orbs to get it. This is why a lot of people think it’s bugged since they didn’t think they had to run the orbs. At least this is the case for those I helped.

Ayrilana.1396:

I did the shaman fractal on level 1 and did not stop the entire time. I got the achievement. Others have gotten it as well. I suggest recording your attempt on video and reviewing it. It takes only one tick of damage to fail the achievement.

I’m not saying that it is impossible to get, only inconsistent (or the mechanics are badly communicated by ANet, which really isn’t any better). The fact that you or other people got it doesn’t change that. I got it, too, in the end, but before that I did a whole bunch of runs where I swear I never once stepped in the lava, nor got close to any lava pools even without lava in it, and didn’t get it.

We assume (not that it says this anywhere – not in game, not in the wiki…) that no part of the game you control may touch the lava, including pets (sucks for rangers) and turrets, which may have been the problem in my case as I tend to drop a supply crate in boss fights. If you don’t play a ranger or engi then maybe you didn’t have those problems, but that doesn’t mean that those problems don’t exist.

That being said, I’m not aware of any extensive testing that supports this, so it might just as well have been random.

Ayrilana.1396:

You also DO NOT get it if you just sit there waiting for people to run the orbs. You must run the orbs to get it. This is why a lot of people think it’s bugged since they didn’t think they had to run the orbs. At least this is the case for those I helped.

This is definitely false on both accounts. I myself (and friends I play fractals with) have done runs without triggering any traps and not gotten the achievement (and it is pretty impossible to trigger a trap and not notice), and then some of us got it without carrying wisps, by taking turns sitting it out.
(There’s also the issue of some players getting this achievement at the start of the fractal, before any wisps action. How does that fit into your pattern?)

With other achievements definitely having been bugged from the start (uhm, the combos one, the hints completion one…) and others randomly breaking (the crab toss ones, Kiel dailies, Hop, Skip, and Jump etc.) I think it is entirely justified to suspect that achievements may be broken rather than the players just being too stupid to understand them.

the second time my guild did this dungeon, 4 of us got this achievement and this room only took us 3 minutes. the 5th just didn’t care about AP so he wanted to run straight through the fields. blink made it easy for me. watching the floor and doing careful movements made it easy for everyone else. just don’t go running in there in a frenzy or scared pantless and you’ll be fine.

Yeah, I suppose everyone, at least the 4 on the lil raisey boxy things, can get it. All you really have to do is take your time and learn the initial safe areas, then watch the pattern until you see the opening to get to the boxy of your choice. And use skills to support that.

Mine involved Shadowstep back to the start, then Shadowstep close enough to boxy to hop on it while the floor wasn’t zappy.

Take your time. Seriously. And if you bzzzt, then volunteer to be the draggy holo pully boom by the door person.

Ayrilana.1396:

…. Just learn the patterns and yo can.

STOP

TALKING

Listen to yourself for a minute …. all of you … before you ever say this again.
“Oh well if you just rote memory this by blah blah blah blah”

“Just” WHAT? …. Just do an entire 90 minute dungeon again and again and again and again? ….yeah great, this logic works just fine with things like MadKing’s content and Teribulation mode where you don’t have to assemble a team every time and then go through an hour of super obvious TIME SINKS to get your 10 seconds of practice in before you have to start the entire thing over again.

Do you people even understand the average person’s pain-tolerance for stuff like this, not to mention the social-barriers attached to it requiring 5 players every single “try”?

ilr.9675:

Ayrilana.1396:

.... Just learn the patterns and yo can.

STOP

TALKING

Listen to yourself for a minute ....
Do you people even understand the average person’s pain-tolerance for stuff like this, not to mention the social-barriers attached to it requiring 5 players every single "try"?

Listen to yourself for a moment.

If you get to the Bzzt floor, you go to the row of floor panels near the control. It is safe. Then the starting area goes safe after that. Once you get that far, you stand there and look at the floor until you notice the pattern, how the safe areas move. That will take a few cycles. Minutes.

If you really want the achievement, that’s where it starts. You see the opportunities. You use your skill and judgement and get to the safe square. Repeat it. I happened to take 5 days to get it right, when I got it right, finally.

I find your lack of faith in the average player interesting. Also, at worst, you only have to get yourself to a platform and then park. At worst.

Edit: What social barriers? I play this so I don’t have to get my social on. Sheesh.

Edit 2: Requiring 5 players? Social? My gods, if they suck, leave the party and find another one. I mean, unless you got kicked or something.

ilr.9675:

Ayrilana.1396:

…. Just learn the patterns and yo can.

STOP

TALKING

No.

With very obstacle in every dungeon, there’s trial and error. However, this trial and error is nothing like in SAB TM. You can spend your first attempt looking at the patterns and figuring out what to do and how not to get electrified. There are also plenty of videos you can use as well to save time.

And then that pattern changes shape and direction the instant the first person reaches the first platform….

Oh and your little “safety strip” at the beginning disappears. One shock and you’re out. GG.

There’s a safe spot for every new pattern once the panel is activated.

Blackwyn.8127:

snip

Wanted to point something out. Just because you can’t do something, doesn’t mean it’s bad design.

there’s nothing wrong with the design of this achievement 4 out 5 people should always get this, if they don’t have the achievement.

1 person runs and gets the first platform – getting this causes the entire floor to become safe for a few seconds. during this, everyone should jump to the first one. the same person that got the first one should go to the second one, during the safe phase everyone else (leaving a person that does not have the achievement on the first) should either run to the second one (so later, those that don’t have the achievement have the safe phase.. a person can run to the 4th or could have stayed on the 1st so they could have run to the 3rd platform for the safe phase again) either way 4 people are completely safe and get the achievement. if the 5 person is good enough to memorize the pattern then they get it too causing the holo aether to go to them from the 4th platform and killing him there.

My entire party got it the first time we did it. True enough, we’re guildies and use voice. I looked at the achievements before hand and asked them to stop in the door – which they did. Then, we observed the pattern and all ran to the first platform. Kept running to the next one while observing the pattern and standing in the safe spots. Regardless, it’s true that the easiest ways to get it – without having to spend more time there – is to portal/use invulnerability etc.

The second run I had…well…a random decided to enter the room alone and hop onto the 1st platform, causing the people needing that achievement to get teleported into the room and electrocuted almost instantly. That is the unfair part in my opinion – the fact that the teleport sends you randomly to one of the 4 platforms if you’re not there at the start instead of the safe-platform or the door.

It’s not 3 seconds. It’s more like 1 – 1.5 seconds. Basically you have to start running for the platform as soon as you see the person about to get up on it.

Studying the pattern works, but unfortunately most PUGs I’ve been in people just rush for the platform (tanking the damage) and don’t give me any opportunity to study the pattern. Then they yell at me for taking so long. :P

Of course, there are easy ways to skip past this if you have a Guardian, Mesmer or Ele, so that works too.