Guild Wars 2

For starteres, ESO isn’t going to crush anything. Second, I don’t see why NCSoft would kill any of their money makers. so I don’t believe that theory either, I think this was just a poor decision made.

Sorry but this is a terrible decision.

When we heard we were getting new permanent content everyone was happy, but if we had known current content would be removed we would have thought differently.

Not only have you removed a dungeon that people like to do, you’ve now split the dungeon up and a level 55 can now only run 2 paths and must wait till level 80 to do the 3rd path (every other dungeon has same level paths).

I really don’t know what goes on in the minds of Anet devs, I swear you guys must sit there and think, ‘Ok we’ve made some new content, we must remove something now so we can put it in the game’

I am glad we are getting some new dungeon content, but the fact we’re also losing some is just saddening.

When a developer starts deleting old content to save time on creating ‘new’ content, you know the game is in trouble.

I’m a bit confused. It seems almost like ArenaNet has a crippling fear of content creep because their metrics tell them that if they spread out their player base too much it will irrevocably hurt the game. In the occasional interview they’ll mention that they don’t expand game modes or other content (or why they put activities on a daily rotation) so that they can funnel their players into the active content so it feels alive. I get that.

The problem is it’s almost as if they are using that probably good principle as a blind judgement call in everything they do – and it just doesn’t fit with dungeons, at least not now when the feel of an expanding game world does a lot to both keep their current player base excited and bring in new players. The feel that the world is the same “size”, regardless of any “changes” to it is a dangerous one because it implies stagnation whether its true or not. To some, many in my guild, new content needs the feeling of being in addition to what we have – taking something away negates that positive addition somewhat.

Don’t get me wrong. I don’t run this path every day. I hate that final boss. Still I feel like the game loses something for just suddenly chopping off a path that had some redeeming features (fountains and bees, I’m looking at you!).

Rip F/U.

Xuro.5861:

When a developer starts deleting old content to save time on creating ‘new’ content, you know the game is in trouble.

And you know you’re a troll when you make illogical statements that would make Spock weep.

Q: Where does ArenaNet “save time” in creating a new path, complete with new boss fights, mechanics, designs?

~A: They don’t. Extra time was spent in creating new fights, balancing those fights out. As for new mechanics, such as the ‘steam alarm bot’, that’s also something that would take time coding in, setting pathing, and adding the additional mob spawns that accompany it.

Q: Wouldn’t it be far cheaper, and more time efficient, to just tweak the current path?

~A: Yes, yes it would. It would also be something stale, boring, and unoriginal. Metrics that ArenaNet has used said that the one dungeon path was the least played (in the entire game? Maybe.). So as to get their audience excited, jumpy, and interested in what work they do in the game, ArenaNet opted to do a full fledged makeover. “Scarlett eye for the Sylvari guy.” :P

Q: If A.Net is so “in trouble”, why are they able to do far more updates than any other game on the market?

~A: They’re not in trouble. This is a trollish wish by those who have a grudge against the game for one reason or another. Perhaps they’re fans of another game and don’t want to see another succeed; perhaps GW2 didn’t live up to their very specific, detailed expectations. Whatever the reason, the smell of sour grapes fills the air.

That ends our Q&A for Trolls session. Please stay tuned for another inevitable one to pop up just around the corner. Enjoy your day.

does the decisions go through their boss first ? or they just can do whatever their want?
we want addon content to the game not the replacement.

Personally, I’d like to see this new path first. I’m curious how the story will get tweaked, like Fyonna getting crushed by Scarlet before reaching the Nightmare Tree.
We’re finally getting something that impacts and changes the existing story!

Can I just say that if this was framed as a “revamp” like the Tequatl battle, instead of advertised as a “new path,” nobody would be complaining.

They would be like, “Oh, they’re making it harder and better. Ok.”

I don’t hear anyone asking why Old Tequatl had to be removed to make room for the new Tequatl…

The answer is pretty obvious. And additionally, if they left everything they will ever create for this game in the game at the same time… It’s going to get very very difficult to find groups to do content. It’s already hard enough to find groups to do story mode.

soakman.7539:

I don’t hear anyone asking why Old Tequatl had to be removed to make room for the new Tequatl…

The answer is pretty obvious. And additionally, if they left everything they will ever create for this game in the game at the same time… It’s going to get very very difficult to find groups to do content. It’s already hard enough to find groups to do story mode.

Yeah, I get that and I think there’s some wisdom in it. I think ArenaNet learned from GW1 that adding too much content without a clever way tying it together just stretched their player base too thin (and as a game ages, this becomes more and more a problem…).

I guess I just had more faith that GW2 could still be in the early growth years where more raw content is a good thing, as more content -> more players -> still feels alive.

The tequatl revamp was both awesome and a good case in point of revamping something old to give a great new sheen. I just don’t see why leaving a dungeon path – instanced five person content – would have an overly negative effect right now (it would be different if we were 3/4 years in and they were coming up on way too many paths).

The idea of a living world storyline solves their problem somewhat by not adding too much new content to spread their base too thin, but if they keep forcing themselves to take something away to add something new, they lose that feeling of expansion somewhat.

A Massive Headache.1879:

For starteres, ESO isn’t going to crush anything. Second, I don’t see why NCSoft would kill any of their money makers. so I don’t believe that theory either, I think this was just a poor decision made.

City of Heroes was, based on what I’ve read about it, still in the black when it was shut down.

TA F/U should not have been removed
That mesmer boss in the path was so much fun to fight. I know the last boss wasnt much fun but they could have just fixed that instead of destroying old content. Why is Anet making everything just deletable?
Changing the world doesnt mean destroying it and if you have problems with the lore why didnt you take out u/u. Oh i know because bads never complained about it.

A Massive Headache.1879:

For starteres, ESO isn’t going to crush anything.

It would/will if or when it goes buy-to-play like GW2.

Unfortunately for ES:O they’re putting a subscription on it, along with a $60 purchase, and for consoles also any online membership fees. Bad marketing choice on their part, I think. Would have likely stomped this game to the ground since Anet’s been treating their customers so poorly lately.

Do you really need to remove a whole path and replace it with another?
Why can’t we get things ADDED to the game instead of replacing older content?
So what if F/U was the least played path, it has it’s enjoyable things.
I am really dissapointed on how you guys work with this ‘’Living World’’.

Tachenon.5270:

A Massive Headache.1879:

For starteres, ESO isn’t going to crush anything. Second, I don’t see why NCSoft would kill any of their money makers. so I don’t believe that theory either, I think this was just a poor decision made.

City of Heroes was, based on what I’ve read about it, still in the black when it was shut down.

Touche…

On the topic of ESO, I really get the impression that it’s not worth playing from everything I’ve seen so far.

But on the topic at hand, No one is complaining about there being a new path, we all welcome it. We’re just a bit upset because a path is being removed for it. This couldn’t even be written off as a change to the path, as it’s clearly nothing to do with Faoyrin and everything to do with scarlet, it’s obviously a new path. It’s really annoying that the path is being removed for something new. I don’t see how people don’t understand that.

I hate Fyonna so I support this decision.

What they should have done to alleviate this issue was to create “Dungeon of the Month,” where each month, one deleted dungeon is made available for that month.

That way, there isn’t so much content that the playerbase is spread too thin, and yet deleted content can still be explored (especially by newer players).

“I seriously think they are trying to kill this game before ESO comes out and crushes it.”
Man are you in for a surprise. Worry more about Wildstar if you are going to worry about an unreleased game.

“I’m a bit confused. It seems almost like ArenaNet has a crippling fear of content creep because their metrics tell them that if they spread out their player base too much it will irrevocably hurt the game. "

I get the same feeling. We know from interviews it is a major concern of theirs. My fear is that it is crippling like you say.

I love that his reason for removing this path is that it’s one of the “least run” dungeons.

CoF p1 is one of the most run dungeons, but it is absolutely awful. An explorable (read: challenging, end game, intended for coordinated groups) dungeon that takes 10 minutes to complete with 5 necros in blue gear is much worse than a tricky path with some interesting mechanics and puzzle elements but slightly borked final boss. The number of people running is a horrible metric of dungeon quality. It just tells you which are the most farmable/exploitable.

I dun think it was solely Lief’s decision to remove takitten I feel sorry for him. Just because he was the one to announce it, he is getting all these hateful comments directed at him.

As for the removal of takitten we might get some lore behind it if we run the new dungeon.

Since all the 3 paths were separate versions of the story, there is absolutely no reason lore-wise to remove one of them.

My, my, are MMO players complaining that their content is being replaced with newer content? This is quite a shock, considering every MMO has, at some point, replaced content with newer content.

Godforbid the horribly buggy (no pun intended) and neigh impossible Spider boss at the end of F/U was replaced with something (hopefully) far more interesting, challenging and GASP! rewarding!

Or are you all crying because A) you’re looking for something to complain about and/or B) you’re all Nightmare Court RPers from Team Fyonna?

Get over yourselves and either enjoy the game or go someplace else.

deepwinter.9015:

B) you’re all Nightmare Court RPers from Team Fyonna?

oh crap he’s on to us guys

LeifChappelle.4069:

Hey everyone. I know there’s some folks upset by the decision to make this new level 80 path in Twilight Arbor take the place of the Forward Up path. I hear the complaints directed toward that fact. That said, there’s several reasons why we came to the conclusion we did.

From a lore perspective, the story of Twilight Arbor repeatable is a lot like a “what if?” situation. Who gets to the Nightmare Tree first? Scarlet is now present in the arbor, and that presence has a very tangible effect on how the Nightmare Court can pull off their race to the tree. Because of that presence, the possibilities are narrowed, and Fyonna will not be able to make it to the tree in

From a design standpoint, we want the Living World updates to change and have an impact on the world. Earlier in the year, Colin gave the example of blowing up a dungeon and replacing it. This is very much that example in action. Because the explorable paths of Twilight Arbor were very similar from a content perspective, we made the decision to create a new path to revitalize one of the existing ones. Forward Up was one of the least played dungeon paths in the game, and was the best candidate for doing something like this.

I know my explanation won’t make everyone happy, but I hope it at least gives you some insight into the decision we made. Everyone on the team is really proud of how the new path has come together, so I’m hoping you give it a try on Tuesday and let us know what you think.

A true assault on TA…

This is the daftest explanation I have ever seen to remove content. The “lore” of Tyria is going nowhere at the moment, it’s just added content to keep ADHD players to keep playing the game every two weeks. An incentive to people coming back with some update here and there. Yes I know you put plenty of effort into development of the game but it is starting to show there is lack of ideas and development and story’s are just being rushed to fulfill deadlines and to sell more trinkets from the BLTC.

Your second paragraph explaining how Fyonna will not be able to make it to the tree because Scarlet is now in there is ridiculous. Scarlet apparently has made a time machine to go back in time to alter a third “what if” scenario? Maybe Logan can borrow that time machine and help Destiny’s Edge fight the dragon, since the time line is already being disrupted. Then we can do all brand new story dungeons! /snarkcasim
The majority of dungeon content is already similar to the TA “what if” scenerio’s. Stop this boss because this could happen, p1,p2,p3.

The reason why TA Forward Up was never played as often has been posted many many times on the forums. All that needed to be done was fix the end boss bugs that have been there since it was last “updated” do many months ago. This would have been a perfect time to have FIXED the BUGS. A fourth permanent path would have been great addition to the three current paths. I would have added the level 80 dungeon gate on the north side of the current area and just reused the map, this would have kept us players happy and not messed with the time line of TA.

This update better be more impressive then the comic book shenanigans we have had since the introduction of Scarlet. Unless this was the reason the path was never fixed…which would be a real kitten move on the part of GW2 dev team.

Sounds like they’re simply morphing the path, updating it and making it better. I never even played the path, yet I have little care it’s being removed…

It sounds like someone or a group of people are VERY clingy.

deepwinter.9015:

My, my, are MMO players complaining that their content is being replaced with newer content? This is quite a shock, considering every MMO has, at some point, replaced content with newer content.

Godforbid the horribly buggy (no pun intended) and neigh impossible Spider boss at the end of F/U was replaced with something (hopefully) far more interesting, challenging and GASP! rewarding!

Or are you all crying because A) you’re looking for something to complain about and/or you’re all Nightmare Court RPers from Team Fyonna?

Get over yourselves and either enjoy the game or go someplace else.

Arachnids are not bugs. We’re kitten ed because what was a good challengeing dungeon path, that had an update bug it, is being needlessly removed.

WereDragon.6083:

Sounds like they’re simply morphing the path, updating it and making it better. I never even played the path, yet I have little care it’s being removed…

It sounds like someone or a group of people are VERY clingy.

no, it’s a completely new path, completely unrelated to what had been there.

I was expecting phasing in this game for the living world part, not this you will never EVER see X content again. :[

WereDragon.6083:

I never even played the path, yet I have little care it’s being removed….

If you haven’t even done the path I don’t rate your opinion on whether it should have been removed or not.

Not too happy about this…. I love new content, but destroying old content in the process sucks.

I never had a chance to play this path, and now I never will… spent all my time trying to find a group to kill Tequatl.

Please, if this is done in the future, warn us so we at least can experience the old content before it is removed forever.

When a new game is about to be release everyone seem to be “This game I currently play better change this way or they will lose to this up and comming game!”. Then I get the game to try it out and read the forums “Wow this game sucks so bad, they should have learned from all the other games such as blah blah blah.”.

I agree, they should learn from every other game out there and and trash their forums. The negative out pace the positive feedback.

LeifChappelle.4069:

Forward Up was one of the least played dungeon paths in the game, and was the best candidate for doing something like this.

Yeah that’s what happens when you leave a humongous Mob-Spawning BUG (the spiders never de-spawn like they should) in the game for months on end and never post in the Dungeon forums to address the hundreds upon hundreds of complaints about it

Are you guys going to remove the Altar of Betrayel from the game next???
…we’ve only been posting about the broken Vet Subjugators on it for 2 months now…

How long are you going to keep ignoring our bug reports and then using it as an excuse to replace the content after less and less people do it? ….If no answer to that either, then you better get Hopping (yes, that was a Hylek pun) and just yank Tequatl all that way out of the game right now b/c it’s completely deserted on servers that used to do it every night… (right around the time they were doing Fire Ele, Maw, and Wurm for daily rare chest)

Mordakai.4213:

Please, if this is done in the future, warn us so we at least can experience the old content before it is removed forever.

I really wish they would give us warning. I missed the hole in DR which looked awesome and I wanted to explore it but nothing was said that I know of. I was able to run this once tonight but someone trigger the dialogue event before I got there so I didn’t get to see it and I won’t now. :[

lol You guys are so infuriated about everyone little thing you can get your hands on aren’t yas? Even if it wasn’t the crappy path that it was, changing dungeons etc is good it promotes that living changing world that they are trying to build, paths get stale stop poking and trying to find something to be upset about just because your bored.

LeifChappelle.4069:

Hey everyone. I know there’s some folks upset by the decision to make this new level 80 path in Twilight Arbor take the place of the Forward Up path. I hear the complaints directed toward that fact. That said, there’s several reasons why we came to the conclusion we did.

From a lore perspective, the story of Twilight Arbor repeatable is a lot like a “what if?” situation. Who gets to the Nightmare Tree first? Scarlet is now present in the arbor, and that presence has a very tangible effect on how the Nightmare Court can pull off their race to the tree. Because of that presence, the possibilities are narrowed, and Fyonna will not be able to make it to the tree in time.

From a design standpoint, we want the Living World updates to change and have an impact on the world. Earlier in the year, Colin gave the example of blowing up a dungeon and replacing it. This is very much that example in action. Because the explorable paths of Twilight Arbor were very similar from a content perspective, we made the decision to create a new path to revitalize one of the existing ones. Forward Up was one of the least played dungeon paths in the game, and was the best candidate for doing something like this.

I know my explanation won’t make everyone happy, but I hope it at least gives you some insight into the decision we made. Everyone on the team is really proud of how the new path has come together, so I’m hoping you give it a try on Tuesday and let us know what you think.

Can you guys please give players advance notice when you remove things like this? In the other MMO that shall not be named, they used to give you months notice when they removed things like quests or achievements or armor or dungeons.

Please think of players when making decisions like this. Seems like sometimes these decisions are made in a bubble.

Nakashima.7560:

Sooo you flatout lied to us when you said youd be giving us new permanent content in the form of an additional dungeon path. This is replacement content. Not what we wanted, go back to the drawing board. TAFU merely needed the boss to be reverted to the way he was to be one of the more played paths again, no need to delete it =/ Myself and other players still ran this path for some extra challenge.. This is not what you have been promising us, at all.

I was really looking forward to this patch, now im debating wether to log on for it at all -.-

Aren’t you going to look stupid if we get a new dungeon path in a month?

LeifChappelle.4069:

Forward Up was one of the least played dungeon paths in the game

It’s been least played, because it has been broken for half the year, which the devs kept ignoring. I understand that instead of making few small tweaks that would fix the problem, it was just easier to handwave it away, but that is hardly what i could call a professional behaviour.

Astralporing.1957:

LeifChappelle.4069:

Forward Up was one of the least played dungeon paths in the game

It’s been least played, because it has been broken for half the year, which the devs kept ignoring. I understand that instead of making few small tweaks that would fix the problem, it was just easier to handwave it away, but that is hardly what i could call a professional behaviour.

Absolutely agree. It was broken which meant pugs stayed away. Now I am afraid HotW p2 and p3, AC p2, SE p2 and CoF p3 might be goners at some point too because pugs don’t play them either. I’d rather they fix the existing paths instead of removing them from the game for good.

Gee, I wish they had announced long in advance that they were removing one of the original Twilight Arbor paths. I’ve never done this F/U path. My guild was suppose to do it this month, now I guess we never will.

What is up with this company? Expand you world like everyone wants you to instead of taking away content to simulate change. Merge servers if you have to keep the population density high but no one wants to take one foot forward in content just to take one foot back, etc.

It was BROKEN people so they got rid of it. arena net is just responding to the probably thousands of players complaining about this obviously broken path. if you want a challenge run arah. F/U wasn’t a challenge anyway if you run it right the first time but it was broke so they fixed it by getting rid of it. I love this game except for all the whiners who play it. besides maybe this new path is the challenge you are looking for. I am looking forward to it and will definitely be on when it comes out.

Amplepiper.7580:

It was BROKEN people so they got rid of it. arena net is just responding to the probably thousands of players complaining about this obviously broken path. if you want a challenge run arah. F/U wasn’t a challenge anyway if you run it right the first time but it was broke so they fixed it by getting rid of it. I love this game except for all the whiners who play it. besides maybe this new path is the challenge you are looking for. I am looking forward to it and will definitely be on when it comes out.

The solution to “my car has a flat tire” is not “BLOW IT UP”

i mean

blow up the car not the tire that’d make sense

Amplepiper.7580:

It was BROKEN people so they got rid of it. arena net is just responding to the probably thousands of players complaining about this obviously broken path. if you want a challenge run arah. F/U wasn’t a challenge anyway if you run it right the first time but it was broke so they fixed it by getting rid of it. I love this game except for all the whiners who play it. besides maybe this new path is the challenge you are looking for. I am looking forward to it and will definitely be on when it comes out.

Only thing “broken” about it was that the spiders didn’t despawn if the party wipes. And before it worked fine until Anet themselves did some tweaking with it and introduced this bug.

And I don’t see how being the least played path is an excuse to remove content that has been there ever since the beginning. How often do you see people run CoF p3 or SE p2 let alone whole CM? Before the daily gold changes no one ran CM, you could never find a group on gw2lfg.com for the dungeon.

Those who don’t like the path don’t have to do it. Why remove it for people who want to play it? And having a contrary opinion is not whining.

I’m sorry I just cant stop reading all these really disappointing comments. please just stop complaining and let the creators make their game even better. ok I’m sorry none of you have anything better to do but whine but some of us like when things change occasionally.

I wasn’t talking about everyone who didn’t want to see it leave just some people who seriously need to calm down. I am sorry if I insulted you. I think its a good thing that they did something about it. something had to be done. I admit they could have made some people more happy if they had just fixed it though.

My god, people here can throw some impressive hissy fits.

Oh please, I’m willing to bet that few of the vocal complainers here consistently ran F/U. TA is farmed very intensively, but almost never that horrid path because it just isn’t worth it.

But it’s the principle right? They could have fixed it.
But they didn’t. Instead we get a new, challenging path, with potentially better rewards. And that is a far better deal. So suck it up. Must everything always be a plan to ruin the game?

Pfsh, in a couple of days the drama is going to peter out and things will return to normal, as it always does. I’m even convinced it’ll become the favourite dungeon of at least a portion of the heavy complainers.

… I just can’t grasp these reaction. Is anyone here really going to state, with a straight face, that they only logged in any more to do the wonderful F/U path, which was all of the good that was left in the game?

however I am really looking forward to there being new content and think others should be too. its one measly path for peat sake. Is all I am really saying.

Amplepiper.7580:

I’m sorry I just cant stop reading all these really disappointing comments. please just stop complaining and let the creators make their game even better. ok I’m sorry none of you have anything better to do but whine but some of us like when things change occasionally.

I like change in fact I love that we are getting new dungeon content but if it comes on the expense of removing old content that used to work fine and is now replaced because of one bug then it is not fine.

Evans.6347:

My god, people here can throw some impressive hissy fits.

Oh please, I’m willing to bet that few of the vocal complainers here consistently ran F/U. TA is farmed very intensively, but almost never that horrid path because it just isn’t worth it.

But it’s the principle right? They could have fixed it.
But they didn’t. Instead we get a new, challenging path, with potentially better rewards. And that is a far better deal. So suck it up. Must everything always be a plan to ruin the game?

Pfsh, in a couple of days the drama is going to peter out and things will return to normal, as it always does. I’m even convinced it’ll become the favourite dungeon of at least a portion of the heavy complainers.

see this guy knows what I am talking about.

ugh…. i liked f/u. whats next you are going to remove cof p3, se p2, ac p2, arah p4…. ect. the dungeons that people seldom do? :X not fair to those who do! do them.

I don’t recall much of my initial experience with the F/Upath as I’ve likely ran it only a handful of times early in the release of GW2. While it would be easy for me to dismiss the ones complaining about the removal of the path, I would be overlooking one of their major points. That being it could have just been fixed.

Even if only 1% of the playerbase did it, the existence of it didn’t bother the other 99% like myself who never ran it again and even forgot about its existence. Maybe it was budgetary reasons, I don’t know Anet, you’re not going to tell us anyway and I get that.

The point is at least reconsider replacing with adding instead.