Guild Wars 2

Vanthian.9267:

skullmount.1758:

Does MF affect the drops? And is it better to wait till I get a bunch and open them all at once, or just open them as I get them?

Early in the post someone stated that magic find has no effect on gifts or chest, only rolls for mob loot. As to whether you wait or use them when you get them… I usually wait until I have ample supply, but I have no findings as to whether it helps.

Yeah, the developers talked about this… Around lost shores I think? MF only affects the drops that you have to “search” off corpses for and only at the time of mob death.

Sneth.6981:

They have similar drop rates? wtf
What is even the point really.
I went through 2000 giant and didnt get any glue or stuffing. just the other garbage

He said it – so the crafting materials are more tier appropriate.

I opened 14,000 Halloween bags two days ago. I was saving them but with the amount in the game and the space they were taking up I thought what the hell….

… after 12,750 bags I got the Endless tonic.

Expect a similar rate for the tonic and bell this event.

I really can’t understand why having an incredibly rare item in the game is a bad thing. Does every single thing have to be obtainable by ordinary means? Why can’t we have items that actually seem special? Legendaries are even starting to lose their charm.

So I got one of these – not by RNG, but by getting TWO everlasting toy tonics and selling those, and buying the bell.

RNG is RNG (and it’s absolutely terrible – 12 level 10 FotM daily chests opened and still no ring of any kind), but I’d say I opened around….800 gifts in total to get my 2 toy tonics (which sold for about 15 gold more than I paid for the bell).

I did notice that within minutes of the dev post here stating the drop rates were the same in all gifts that the prices for the 2 gifts (small and medium) that were under 1 silver suddenly shot up to around 2 silver, and the giant is there, as well. The large seems to still be around 3 silver – probably due to the drop of the more expensive snowflake.

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

The small, medium, large, giant, and personalized gift boxes all have an equal chance of dropping the endless tonic and the unbreakable bell. In fact, all of the boxes (excluding MTX) drop very similar things at very similar rates. The only reason there are different ones is largely related to crafting, so that lower level players can find and craft level-appropriate stuff from recipes and components.

I love how you address this but don’t at all have a word to say on how each holiday event so far has relied on people getting cool stuff via opening 50 billion random boxes with the lowest drop rates imaginable.

Euler.3259:

Everything in this game is so incomprehensibly out of reach I don’t even want to try. Sure the journey of a 1000 miles starts with a single step. But why is it a 1000 miles before I get anything?

Even better than that, the journey governed by RNG is both long and short at the same time. It may be 1000 miles, it may be 1. You have no idea how much longer you are going to be on the path for.

Geewoody.2017:

I really can’t understand why having an incredibly rare item in the game is a bad thing. Does every single thing have to be obtainable by ordinary means? Why can’t we have items that actually seem special? Legendaries are even starting to lose their charm.

It’s a bad thing because the only way to reliably get one is to spend a ridiculous amount of money at the cash shop. It’s encouraging people with an addictive personality who REALLY want to feel special to spend more than they can afford. It’s praying on the weak and taking them for all they have.

Why do you need to seem special in a video game? Is this feeling of specialness worth weak people wasting all their money on and getting into debt?

Is this what playing a video game should be about, your worth and status in the game linked to how much money you spent?

Euler.3259:

Yea, until this game manages to get the rewards on events right, I’m just doing the ‘get the achievement, then play something rewarding’ thing. Everything in this game is so incomprehensibly out of reach I don’t even want to try. Sure the journey of a 1000 miles starts with a single step. But why is it a 1000 miles before I get anything?

because, why does everything ever have to be about instant gratification? you feel better after working really hard to obtain something you want. plus this is how anet makes money… people using real money to buy fake money to buy another type of fake money.

Luriyu.6873:

Euler.3259:

Yea, until this game manages to get the rewards on events right, I’m just doing the ‘get the achievement, then play something rewarding’ thing. Everything in this game is so incomprehensibly out of reach I don’t even want to try. Sure the journey of a 1000 miles starts with a single step. But why is it a 1000 miles before I get anything?

because, why does everything ever have to be about instant gratification? you feel better after working really hard to obtain something you want. plus this is how anet makes money… people using real money to buy fake money to buy another type of fake money.

Well RNG is the total opposite of “working hard”.

For example – fractals and ascended rings. I’m 0/12 on opening level 10 daily chests. I’ve seen others go 3/3 and stopped, because they got the rings they wanted.

Who “worked harder”?

Who got the rewards they were after?

If the answer isn’t the same (and it isn’t) then there’s nothing rewarding about “working hard”, but just luck.

Wow, people complain about everything…

Name one RPG that hasn’t had some form of random loot? There’s a good enough balance of things you get from lucky drops and things you get from fulfilling a set prerequisite (crafting, etc). Just because the one item you want happens to be a random drop, doesn’t mean it’s a reason to criticize the entire game.

The thing is that this isn’t just some cosmetic thing or an existing piece of gear with slightly better stats. It is literally a new variation of gameplay that probably took a good chunk of programming. To shut that off to everyone but a lucky few, selected entirely by chance, just seems wrong.

I wouldn’t mind the fact that there were uber-rare instruments as long as everyone could get some kind of instrument.

“Name one RPG that hasn’t had some form of random loot?”

Baldurs Gate – Fallout – Planescape Torment just a few a of the best RPGs ever made.

inscribed.6849:

Wow, people complain about everything…

Name one RPG that hasn’t had some form of random loot? There’s a good enough balance of things you get from lucky drops and things you get from fulfilling a set prerequisite (crafting, etc). Just because the one item you want happens to be a random drop, doesn’t mean it’s a reason to criticize the entire game.

I criticize the method unto which this game is turning. Anything of value in this game has a RNG attached to it.

This game started out great. You wanted a certain armor? Go to dungeons and buy it with tokens. Awesome.

Now, I am not saying that everything needs to be that way. You can have your super ultra mega sword of death +2 have a random element if you want, but why on earth would you make mini’s, unbreakable choir bells, and everlasting tonics random?

They have the means to make it to where you can do quests to gain mats or have drops that you put in the mystic forge to get these items. Much like the system they used with legendary and certain parts required for them all except one ( I will not name in which I have sunk the majority of my money on to get 3 out of 77 needed this is the only thing stopping me from obtaining my legendary).

Instead the whole shoot and sha-bang is one horribly low RNG. So yes, it could end with one gift, but you could also never get one no matter how many you open. Which in my case is 90% of the time.

OR they could do the thing that would best help their business, put them in the cash shop. I think they underestimate how many people are willing to buy things like the unbreakable choir bell.

Geewoody.2017:

I really can’t understand why having an incredibly rare item in the game is a bad thing. Does every single thing have to be obtainable by ordinary means? Why can’t we have items that actually seem special? Legendaries are even starting to lose their charm.

Over time everything will be common place. The things they try to make rare will be some of the most common place things in the game. It will happen. Take Twilight and Sunrise. The good majority of legendary items I have seen are the a fore mentioned.

The item I am talking about and would like to have is not a legendary item. It is a unbreakable version of a standard consumable item. I am not bashing super rare items. I am bashing having them on a RNG. It is not very smart to put them on a RNG when this game’s manifesto states it is a game of skill; one in which you can show through the items you obtain. How is it skill when all you have to do is double click a box you bought off the trading post with gold you got through the gem store? (granted that is not the method I went with but I have heard of others doing it).

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

The small, medium, large, giant, and personalized gift boxes all have an equal chance of dropping the endless tonic and the unbreakable bell. In fact, all of the boxes (excluding MTX) drop very similar things at very similar rates. The only reason there are different ones is largely related to crafting, so that lower level players can find and craft level-appropriate stuff from recipes and components.

Thank you for the response. The Wintersday event is truly fun for the most part except the RNG.

I would truly love for this game to go back to skill based progression but I get the feeling that PvE will remain a RNG fest for any simi rare/rare item.

I wish the permanent bells were given as a prize for players who have gotten 600.

I really want the perma bells to try out a lot of songs :s

You want to quit the game because you did not receive a permanent choir bell? I mean, I guess the point of the game for you can be choir bells but I was getting along fine before I knew it existed.

I don’t usually post that somebody is doing something they shouldn’t as everyone has a right to their own opinion, but…a bell? That’s probably the least I’ve seen somebody complain about. Now, I do think you’re entitled to care about it as much as you want and complain about it as much as you want but my personal opinion is that this is a little bit ridiculous to write so much over a bell. I would understand if it was something game breaking but I don’t see not having a bell as breaking the game. My two cents. Probably unwelcome but I couldn’t help pointing out what I see as obvious. If you disagree with me, ignore me, as you should fight for what you believe in.

Bought 500 Giant present to try my luck for the Unbreakable Bell. But i failed. Bought another 500, and it will be the last. Then Hooaallaa! after 326th box, didn’t got the bell. But got the Endless tonic. Not bad at all. after 8g+ investment. I got 30g+ back. Won’t try anymore for bell. I’ll just wait until its price drop and grab one.

I See No Tomorrow.7302:

You want to quit the game because you did not receive a permanent choir bell? I mean, I guess the point of the game for you can be choir bells but I was getting along fine before I knew it existed.

I don’t usually post that somebody is doing something they shouldn’t as everyone has a right to their own opinion, but…a bell? That’s probably the least I’ve seen somebody complain about. Now, I do think you’re entitled to care about it as much as you want and complain about it as much as you want but my personal opinion is that this is a little bit ridiculous to write so much over a bell. I would understand if it was something game breaking but I don’t see not having a bell as breaking the game. My two cents. Probably unwelcome but I couldn’t help pointing out what I see as obvious. If you disagree with me, ignore me, as you should fight for what you believe in.

It is not the bell but the method in which to obtain all the rare items. It is the RNG that is making this unbearable. Not only are the mini’s on a RNG but any item worth having is also on the RNG. In a claimed “skill based” game, there is way to much RNG for high end items.

I don’t mind having a RNG for some items, but not for the vast majority. RNG are the quickest way to split a population of players into a have not and haves. The haves will always be the upper class people in the game because they have the time and money to invest in the product. While all casual and semi casual people will have 0 chance at any decent item.

what does this bell do ?

Thankies to the one sending me the bells xD

Dang, it required more than 1 bell to play the entire “Eyes on Me” song lol

Vanthian.9267:

I will start with the usual, “I loved guild wars 1. I logged in more than 2k hours, blah blah blah, but…” on to the post.

The amount of gifts required to get that unbreakable bell must be ungodly. On a statistical bell curve I should have had 2 by now if they have a 0.01% chance to drop. The RNG is killing this game and at this point I am surprised anyone is still left. This is absolutely ridiculous. If you are wondering about what did drop…. attached is a screen shot of all that I got excluding the sweaters. Those I used to buy more giant gifts. In total I used around 3k (maybe 3.2k due to sweaters) gifts. I more than likely won’t be able to bring myself to play any more of RNG Wars 2. So much for skill being the number one thing required in this game. It seems the longer the game is out the more and more it will slip away from what was stated this game was about.

Yes, call me a qqer and complainer and whatever else you want. The fact stands: they are adding new gear and more than likely will have to for a expansion since they are increasing the level cap. The RNG is here to stay and will be king of RNG Wars 2.

Side Note: It would have made more sense to have the bell as reward for getting 100% on all parts (upper, middle, & lower) of the mini bell choir game (not just the lower part), but I assume that goes against their new philosophy.

Side Note 2: What seems to drop with 140% magic find:
(60% from armor + 50% booster + 30% food)

2461 Ugly Wool Sweaters
25 Drops of Magic Glue (in drops of 25)
50 Wads of Enchanted Stuffing (in Wads of 25)
476 Flawless Snowflake (either 1 or in groups of 10)
1 Bell Focus Skin
1 Wooden Dagger Skin
3 Pop Gun Skin
5 Toy Sword Skin
4 Toy Staff Skin
2 Slingshot Skin
5 Princess Wand Skin
16 Giver’s Orichalcum Imbued Inscription
12 Giver’s Intricate Glossamer Insignia
33 Choir Bells (in bundles of 3)
AND SUPPOSEDLY Unbreakable Choir Bell

This is a two part question:

1. If you have 33 Choir bells , why do you need the permanent one? Lots of concerts?
2. Secondly, if the answer to question 1 is you’d like to sell the item, then may I humbly suggest a better farm such as FoTM or COF.

Additionally: What annoys me most about RNG complaints is not so much the fact that the 5% of people that actually WANT this item cant have it; it’s the droves that complain they cant make a quick 80G. If everyone could get it so easily, it would be 60 silver just like the skins.

So if you really want it, go farm COF I’d imagine in far less time you could have one off the TP, if you WANT it that is. I feel like people don’t actually want anything but just to play the TP. I could be wrong though.

I will be honest I’d sell the thing in a minute it’s cute but 80G is much more beautiful. But I am not gunning for it. It’s RNG you get it if you get it.

Edit: I’d also like to point out you picked the ONE of TWO things that are extremely hard to get in the event, I don’t really know what you were expecting man.

Stormleaf.1769:

You could have sold that many gifts for almost enough to simply buy the bell with gold off the TP. Maybe do a bit of research before sinking everything into a gamble and then calling the game a failure because you didn’t get what you want (despite the fact that a guaranteed method of obtaining it was right in front of you).

Sorry you didn’t get it, either way =(

This. Pretty much. It does suck not to get something. If you know it’s RNG going in though , I just don’t understand bashing your head against the wall on it.

Glektor.2934:

I must agree that the RNG system in this game feels WAY worse than any other game I’ve played. It feels like everything has like 0.00000001% chance to appear in this game.

But, at least you can buy it, like others have said. So, at least there’s some kind of alternative to getting shafted by RNG the entire time and never getting it at all.

So while I disagree with the specific argument of the OP. I will say that I agree 100% with you. I have said this in many posts in the past; The worst thing about Guild Wars 2 In my opinion is not Ascended, the fact that it’s not GW1, empty starter zones, ETC. The loot tables, randomization variety and sense of reward are way off kilter.

Vanthian.9267:

I See No Tomorrow.7302:

You want to quit the game because you did not receive a permanent choir bell? I mean, I guess the point of the game for you can be choir bells but I was getting along fine before I knew it existed.

I don’t usually post that somebody is doing something they shouldn’t as everyone has a right to their own opinion, but…a bell? That’s probably the least I’ve seen somebody complain about. Now, I do think you’re entitled to care about it as much as you want and complain about it as much as you want but my personal opinion is that this is a little bit ridiculous to write so much over a bell. I would understand if it was something game breaking but I don’t see not having a bell as breaking the game. My two cents. Probably unwelcome but I couldn’t help pointing out what I see as obvious. If you disagree with me, ignore me, as you should fight for what you believe in.

It is not the bell but the method in which to obtain all the rare items. It is the RNG that is making this unbearable. Not only are the mini’s on a RNG but any item worth having is also on the RNG. In a claimed “skill based” game, there is way to much RNG for high end items.

I don’t mind having a RNG for some items, but not for the vast majority. RNG are the quickest way to split a population of players into a have not and haves. The haves will always be the upper class people in the game because they have the time and money to invest in the product. While all casual and semi casual people will have 0 chance at any decent item.

I like this statement much better. Very well said.

Vanthian.9267:

While all casual and semi casual people will have 0 chance at any decent item.

Actually, they have the same random chance with each roll of the RNG as the ‘haves’.

Think less like Veruca Salt and more like Charlie Bucket.

Dungin.2983:

This is a two part question:

1. If you have 33 Choir bells , why do you need the permanent one? Lots of concerts?
2. Secondly, if the answer to question 1 is you’d like to sell the item,….

.

1. 33 Choir Bells won’t last me years to come (if I continue to play, depends on how much RNG will be introduced in the next months).
2. I would never sell a item I want, which is everything I go for in the game. I do things in the game because A) I have fun at most things (such as the bell choir mini game) and B ) because some enhanced visuals are always nice.

mojodamm.6854:

Vanthian.9267:

While all casual and semi casual people will have 0 chance at any decent item.

Actually, they have the same random chance with each roll of the RNG as the ‘haves’.

Think less like Veruca Salt and more like Charlie Bucket.

The elite will always have more of a chance specifically due to sample size.

Josh.6213:

what does this bell do ?

This is the same as a normal choir bell only at the end of the 1 minute time limit it is not consumed.

Dungin.2983:

This is a two part question:

1. If you have 33 Choir bells , why do you need the permanent one? Lots of concerts?
2. Secondly, if the answer to question 1 is you’d like to sell the item, then may I humbly suggest a better farm such as FoTM or COF.

Because 33 Choir bells last you only 33 minutes. Not even close enough for “Lots of concerts”. Most who want(keyword) the Unbreakable Bell Choir intent to actually use it instead of selling it.
Some of you seem to not understand that this Unbreakable Bell Choir is a must-have item for anyone who enjoys playing music in games. It is the only reliable way to keep playing music after Wintersday ends. I have been waiting for an item like this to appear since before launch. It will be very game-breaking for me if I don’t get it or another permanent musical instrument.

Taikanaru.5746:

Most who wants the Unbreakable Bell Choir intent to actually use it instead of selling it.

While I have no doubt that there are many players, myself included, who intend to use and cherish the bell, I think someone would have to be deluded if they believe that the majority of players wouldn’t cash in immediately if they pulled one out of a box.

mojodamm.6854:

Taikanaru.5746:

Most who wants the Unbreakable Bell Choir intent to actually use it instead of selling it.

While I have no doubt that there are many players, myself included, who intend to use and cherish the bell, I think someone would have to be deluded if they believe that the majority of players wouldn’t cash in immediately if they pulled one out of a box.

Yes, and that’s the sad part of any online game. People get something really rare, and the first thing they do is sell it for gold. I’m not counting things like exotic armour and rare dyes as they can be gotten any day of the year, but things like specific event items, like those bells.

Got my unbreakable bell with my first giant present =)

I changed my mind on this. I just opened 40 giant gifts in a row and got 38 sweaters….

What a waste.

Humposaurus.5764:

Got my unbreakable bell with my first giant present =)

Gratz! Use it to ring in the New Year! (Or sell it before 12/21!) :O

mojodamm.6854:

Humposaurus.5764:

Got my unbreakable bell with my first giant present =)

Gratz! Use it to ring in the New Year! (Or sell it before 12/21!) :O

I know a guy that will buy it, but I am pretty sure he is broke at this point ;D.

Same, not going to buy RNG stuff. Farming jumping puzzle, in hope of the new mini. Being a collector is kind of ruined with the 3 other minipets though.

Thereon.3495:

I opened 14,000 Halloween bags two days ago. I was saving them but with the amount in the game and the space they were taking up I thought what the hell….

… after 12,750 bags I got the Endless tonic.

Expect a similar rate for the tonic and bell this event.

My friend I don’t think you understand how probability works. Nobody can expect anything.

A drop rate is merely an average, but each gift has the exact same amount of probability to drop the unbreakable bell as any other gift, no matter how many gifts you have already opened. And no matter how many gifts someone else has opened before getting the bell. Or how many halloween bags before getting an endless tonic.

This means you could open gifts ’til the end of time without ever getting the bell.

Of you could get it in one of the first giant gifts you open. Which by the way is what happened to me (I think it was the 6th or 7th giant gift I opened, and dropped in the Groove Tixx dungeon) and I didn’t have a clue it was so rare until I read this post.

That is the nature of probability.

Edit: and it seems someone else got even luckier:

Humposaurus.5764:

Got my unbreakable bell with my first giant present =)

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

The small, medium, large, giant, and personalized gift boxes all have an equal chance of dropping the endless tonic and the unbreakable bell. In fact, all of the boxes (excluding MTX) drop very similar things at very similar rates. The only reason there are different ones is largely related to crafting, so that lower level players can find and craft level-appropriate stuff from recipes and components.

What is MTX ????

Natas Enasni.3260:

“Name one RPG that hasn’t had some form of random loot?”

Baldurs Gate – Fallout – Planescape Torment just a few a of the best RPGs ever made.

Agree on that, but all single player games. MMO’s will always have RNG because that is pretty much the only way to ensure the rarity of certain items in the playerbase, and hence their “uniqueness”. If everyone was running around with legendary weapons, they wouldn’t be legendary, would they?

The only other way is to make the requirements far, far beyond what any single player could achieve. EvE Online uses this system, where pretty much all equipment in the game can be created by players (so loot is not nearly as important), with the best, most epic stuff only being available to large corporations (guilds), because it requires a coordinated effort from dozens of players to obtain and maintain them.

So basically you can either have a solo friendly RNG system or a group-only skill/effort system. I personally prefer a solo friendly system for this type of game… especially because given enough time, the group-only system results in everyone having a personal Titan or two parked in their garage. I don’t want to see Eternity on every corner.

I’am glad the unbreakable bell is very rare (no I don’t own one). I don’t want to run around LA hearing them constantly. Anyways, it’s an MMO and there are allowed to be extremely rare items, and in fact, I wish there were much more of them. We have become a very spoiled MMO community over the years.

There is a Mystic forge recipe for endless toy tonic. I wonder if someone will find an endless bell one?

Halo.1679:

There is a Mystic forge recipe for endless toy tonic. I wonder if someone will find an endless bell one?

It is doubtful given that the consumable choir bells can not go into the forge.

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

The small, medium, large, giant, and personalized gift boxes all have an equal chance of dropping the endless tonic and the unbreakable bell. In fact, all of the boxes (excluding MTX) drop very similar things at very similar rates. The only reason there are different ones is largely related to crafting, so that lower level players can find and craft level-appropriate stuff from recipes and components.

Wait, wait, wait…

So I’ve been taking 1 giant box from the dungeon end-reward (on repeat runs) hoping to get better chances at rarer drops when I could have been taking 3 small boxes to get 3x the number of chances at the same rare drops?

Boy, do I feel stupid. You could say I’ve at least been getting better chances at crafting materials, but I’m really not sure giant boxes ever drop crafting materials. I almost always get only 1 ugly sweater, or occassionally a weapon skin.

At least I saw this post now and not when the event is over. Got plenty of time to change my reward strategy >.>

Does kind of raise the question of why the dungeon rewards different amounts of the boxes at all, though. If they all have the same stuff (minus higher level crafting materials in better boxes I guess) then why do you get more of the smaller boxes? Do the higher level mats really need to be that much rarer, that at least from a quantity-standpoint you get more rewards if you’re getting low level boxes?

Just one thing as a response:

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Miniature_Polar_Bear

It must be pretty random on what drops out besides the sweaters and such. I’ve probably opened around 200 gifts since I just farm them and don’t buy them. I have yet to get any skin. All I got was wool clothes and snowflakes with a couple recipes that were low lvl.

Magic Find has zero to do with opening chests etc.. OP should know that at your level and time played..

It is just from mobs..

That said, it is random. If you don;t like it, don’t “gamble” your time. They added stuff you can buy. They got stuff you can hunt for.

At the end of the day, if you don’t want to play it their way, do not do it..

That said, you really should not make it like having all the MF stuff matters. That is newbie info and not knowing that makes your credibility questionable.

Eh… How is something that is said like only once in a forum and nowhere else “newbie” info? There are tons of people who don’t even read forums.

Taikanaru.5746:

Eh… How is something that is said like only once in a forum and nowhere else “newbie” info?

MF only affecting mob drops has been around on the forums from day 1 (beta even)..

Oh and all over the /map chat during dragon events and Orr stuff.. You would have to be living in a box and never have any chat (guild, map etc) to not be aware of this
It is nothing new and everyone knows it.