Guild Wars 2

I found on net one very interesting article to read:
5 Creepy Ways Video Games Are Trying to Get You Addicted
http://www.cracked.com/article_18461_5-creepy-ways-video-games-are-trying-to-get-you-addicted.html

This might be also reason why gw2 is not that popular as WoW, since it has less “addictive” features (tho still does). What frightens me more is that they are adding more and more of those (like said in article – achievment that makes you do pointles tasks and it gives you reward).
Tho i like GW2 (at least more than other mmorpgs), but wish there were less “addictive” features and rather makes endgame worth playing on its own, because its fun. PVE in this game would be almost non existant/boring whitout those features. Only place worth staying would be WvW and sPvP (to some extent). But those two still also needs alot improvements to be fun longterm and keep you playing.

So whats your thinking on this topic and in GW2?

GW2 is more popular that WoW (in the West, they haven’t launched in China yet)

Honestly, I thought this game was going to be different in PvE than it turned out. I expected our actions to actually matter. When we defeat the Shatterer, it would actually matter. If we let the Centaurs take camps, it would affect things all over the world.

That kind of gameplay would keep PvE fresh eternally, but instead it’s just events that are “Keeping you pressing the lever”. It should be like WvW, but in PvE.

Unfortunately, they didn’t do that. If they did, they wouldn’t need all this addictive bullkitten in there. Instead, you have events that are exactly the same coming up at set intervals which only change how things are in THAT worldspace, rather than the entire world. If they just had someone monitor what was going on in PvE and moved mobs based on what players were doing (A director of sorts), then they could really make PvE awesome.

They didn’t.

I have a far simpler explanation:
If an activity is fun to a person, a person will feel joy repeating it on their free time. That’s why some people watch TV, read books or play games. In order for you to have a hobby it was to be addicting (fun) for you in some way. The addiction for video game is not the same as the addiction for marijuana. It’s the same as an addiction for anything else that’s really fun for you. No theories are needed here. I know people that love knitting and can knit for 6 hours a day. However their thing is not called an addiction, but gaming is?

The Gates Assassin.9827:

Honestly, I thought this game was going to be different in PvE than it turned out. I expected our actions to actually matter. When we defeat the Shatterer, it would actually matter. If we let the Centaurs take camps, it would affect things all over the world.

That kind of gameplay would keep PvE fresh eternally, but instead it’s just events that are “Keeping you pressing the lever”. It should be like WvW, but in PvE.

Unfortunately, they didn’t do that. If they did, they wouldn’t need all this addictive bullkitten in there. Instead, you have events that are exactly the same coming up at set intervals which only change how things are in THAT worldspace, rather than the entire world. If they just had someone monitor what was going on in PvE and moved mobs based on what players were doing (A director of sorts), then they could really make PvE awesome.

They didn’t.

You’re talking about every single event only repeating once and changing everything around it. Let’s say there’s 10 events in a zone daily. How much programing do you think they would have to put in to change the world in every zone 10 times daily? I don’t think that that’s even possible to implement in an MMO.

Mirta.5029:

I have a far simpler explanation:
If an activity is fun to a person, a person will feel joy repeating it on their free time. That’s why some people watch TV, read books or play games. In order for you to have a hobby it was to be addicting (fun) for you in some way. The addiction for video game is not the same as the addiction for marijuana. It’s the same as an addiction for anything else that’s really fun for you. No theories are needed here. I know people that love knitting and can knit for 6 hours a day. However their thing is not called an addiction, but gaming is?

The addiction part comes in when it starts to interfere with a healthy lifestyle. If you play a game for 10 hours straight to get a legendary weapon doing things you don’t like, something is VERY wrong. The key is that you don’t like it anymore, yet you continue to do it.

^ hell of a task given amount of servers!
But I have to agree with you, the more interval between mobs conquering and players taking back, mobs should do something meanwhile(build some defences, increase their population, get a boss for themselves). To encourage players destroying their forces and not just abandoning, reward would scale with difficulty just as well.
As of now it doesn’t make sense that a group of centaurs/undeads(though who knows in second case?! they are undead.) just stands there doing nothing after they’ve captured a camp/whatever.

Compared to almost every other MMO, I think GW2 is the most based on fun and the least based on addiciton. But in my opinion there is still a little, because of RNG gambling. Thankfully, I hate gambling and farming and I don’t think I’ve ever done the same area or instance more than once in a day, so I guess it doesn’t affect everyone.

Evalia.7103:

^ hell of a task given amount of servers!
But I have to agree with you, the more interval between mobs conquering and players taking back, mobs should do something meanwhile(build some defences, increase their population, get a boss for themselves). To encourage players destroying their forces and not just abandoning, reward would scale with difficulty just as well.
As of now it doesn’t make sense that a group of centaurs/undeads(though who knows in second case?! they are undead.) just stands there doing nothing after they’ve captured a camp/whatever.

Give one person an entire server. Every day, they come in and change where the mobs will attack from during an event and maybe even create giant patrols that are trying to take over certain cities. You could even design it so that they slowly build up an army so that players have a chance to prepare themselves for battle. There doesn’t need to be voice acting or anything. Just control where the mobs are to keep things fresh.

You’re talking about every single event only repeating once and changing everything around it. Let’s say there’s 10 events in a zone daily. How much programing do you think they would have to put in to change the world in every zone 10 times daily? I don’t think that that’s even possible to implement in an MMO.

10 times per day would be impossible. Once per day isn’t really that bad. Hell, you can have it be the same for every server to save time. Just have it ready for server reset time. All you need to do is put objects that are already in the game and work in new places and in new arrangements. Assuming they didn’t code this game like an idiot, it really shouldn’t be hard to place mobs/spawn points in a new location.

Karizee.8076:

GW2 is more popular that WoW (in the West, they haven’t launched in China yet)

World of Warcraft: around 10M monthly subscribers.
Guild Wars 2: 3M box sold.
See what you compare…

And no, WoW’s population is not 70% from China. :P

The Gates Assassin.9827:

Evalia.7103:

^ hell of a task given amount of servers!
But I have to agree with you, the more interval between mobs conquering and players taking back, mobs should do something meanwhile(build some defences, increase their population, get a boss for themselves). To encourage players destroying their forces and not just abandoning, reward would scale with difficulty just as well.
As of now it doesn’t make sense that a group of centaurs/undeads(though who knows in second case?! they are undead.) just stands there doing nothing after they’ve captured a camp/whatever.

Give one person an entire server. Every day, they come in and change where the mobs will attack from during an event and maybe even create giant patrols that are trying to take over certain cities. You could even design it so that they slowly build up an army so that players have a chance to prepare themselves for battle. There doesn’t need to be voice acting or anything. Just control where the mobs are to keep things fresh.

You’re talking about every single event only repeating once and changing everything around it. Let’s say there’s 10 events in a zone daily. How much programing do you think they would have to put in to change the world in every zone 10 times daily? I don’t think that that’s even possible to implement in an MMO.

10 times per day would be impossible. Once per day isn’t really that bad. Hell, you can have it be the same for every server to save time. Just have it ready for server reset time. All you need to do is put objects that are already in the game and work in new places and in new arrangements. Assuming they didn’t code this game like an idiot, it really shouldn’t be hard to place mobs/spawn points in a new location.

you want a developer to re-put spawn points every day? Yeah, make your own game and you do that. Remember not to bug it out either.

The only reason why GW2 is less popular is because it’s not challanging enough, there is no structure in combat and the rewards are bad.

Of course they want you to be “addicted” (they really just want you to play). The longer you play, the more money you pay (WoW) and in the sense of GW2, the more likely you are to spend money in the cash shop. So, I don’t mind them adding features somemay find pointless as long as the population doesn’t die out.

Also this article is one big pile of bullkitten. Just the same stupidness as saying that video gaming makes you more violent.

Keiran.1896:

Karizee.8076:

GW2 is more popular that WoW (in the West, they haven’t launched in China yet)

World of Warcraft: around 10M monthly subscribers.
Guild Wars 2: 3M box sold.
See what you compare…

And no, WoW’s population is not 70% from China. :P

Sure it is, that’s why they only sold 2.7mil copies of the Panda pac.

you want a developer to re-put spawn points every day? Yeah, make your own game and you do that. Remember not to bug it out either.

With a system already in place, it’s as easy as moving a few things in an editor. I’ve been designing games for a while. It’s really not bad at all with all mechanics and world spaces already created.

Indoles.1467:

Of course they want you to be “addicted” (they really just want you to play). The longer you play, the more money you pay (WoW) and in the sense of GW2, the more likely you are to spend money in the cash shop. So, I don’t mind them adding features somemay find pointless as long as the population doesn’t die out.

There are other was of getting players to stay. Less evil and greedy ways. I don’t mind microtransactions, I just mind game design that is geared towards making money instead of fun.

The Gates Assassin.9827:

you want a developer to re-put spawn points every day? Yeah, make your own game and you do that. Remember not to bug it out either.

With a system already in place, it’s as easy as moving a few things in an editor. I’ve been designing games for a while. It’s really not bad at all with all mechanics and world spaces already created.

you would still be paying someone money to mix up the spawn placement every single day. It would also confuse the players “Why are mobs here 5 levels higher than yesterday? There was inquest in this base yesterday, why is it Sylvari now? That doesn’t go with the lore!”. When it comes to events if it was random whether small mobs or a few champions spawned the same event could be really unfair on day 1 and 5 and be completable on day 3 and 4, preventing it from becoming a game with a steady difficulty setting, so no, mixing spawn points is a bad idea.

MoP doesn’t feel right after everything else that occured thus far in stories and expansions. There are plenty of explanations on why it failed.

Karizee.8076:

Keiran.1896:

Karizee.8076:

GW2 is more popular that WoW (in the West, they haven’t launched in China yet)

World of Warcraft: around 10M monthly subscribers.
Guild Wars 2: 3M box sold.
See what you compare…

And no, WoW’s population is not 70% from China. :P

Sure it is, that’s why they only sold 2.7mil copies of the Panda pac.

Mirta.5029:

The Gates Assassin.9827:

you want a developer to re-put spawn points every day? Yeah, make your own game and you do that. Remember not to bug it out either.

With a system already in place, it’s as easy as moving a few things in an editor. I’ve been designing games for a while. It’s really not bad at all with all mechanics and world spaces already created.

you would still be paying someone money to mix up the spawn placement every single day. It would also confuse the players “Why are mobs here 5 levels higher than yesterday? There was inquest in this base yesterday, why is it Sylvari now? That doesn’t go with the lore!”. When it comes to events if it was random whether small mobs or a few champions spawned the same event could be really unfair on day 1 and 5 and be completable on day 3 and 4, preventing it from becoming a game with a steady difficulty setting, so no, mixing spawn points is a bad idea.

Here’s an idea: Don’t suck at placing the mobs. All of what you said are just bad ways to do it.

The Gates Assassin.9827:

Mirta.5029:

The Gates Assassin.9827:

you want a developer to re-put spawn points every day? Yeah, make your own game and you do that. Remember not to bug it out either.

With a system already in place, it’s as easy as moving a few things in an editor. I’ve been designing games for a while. It’s really not bad at all with all mechanics and world spaces already created.

you would still be paying someone money to mix up the spawn placement every single day. It would also confuse the players “Why are mobs here 5 levels higher than yesterday? There was inquest in this base yesterday, why is it Sylvari now? That doesn’t go with the lore!”. When it comes to events if it was random whether small mobs or a few champions spawned the same event could be really unfair on day 1 and 5 and be completable on day 3 and 4, preventing it from becoming a game with a steady difficulty setting, so no, mixing spawn points is a bad idea.

Here’s an idea: Don’t suck at placing the mobs. All of what you said are just bad ways to do it.

then you’re going to be replacing regular mobs that fit in with the story with regular mobs that fit in with the story? Instead of krait make crabs spawn one day? That seems absolutely pointless. It would add nothing to the game, but you would have to pay someone to re-program the game daily (keeping in mind that games with new engines (like GW2) tend not to have developer kits).

Karizee.8076:

Keiran.1896:

Karizee.8076:

GW2 is more popular that WoW (in the West, they haven’t launched in China yet)

World of Warcraft: around 10M monthly subscribers.
Guild Wars 2: 3M box sold.
See what you compare…

And no, WoW’s population is not 70% from China. :P

Sure it is, that’s why they only sold 2.7mil copies of the Panda pac.

Sad but true !

Karizee.8076:

Keiran.1896:

Karizee.8076:

GW2 is more popular that WoW (in the West, they haven’t launched in China yet)

World of Warcraft: around 10M monthly subscribers.
Guild Wars 2: 3M box sold.
See what you compare…

And no, WoW’s population is not 70% from China. :P

Sure it is, that’s why they only sold 2.7mil copies of the Panda pac.

Erm, no….

They sold 2.7 million copies of the “Panda pac” in the first week of the expansion’s release. They’ve long since passed that figure.

GW2 on the other hand only JUST passed 3 million, a full four (almost five) months after release.

WoW is far, far more popular and I can’t even believe anyone would try to argue otherwise.

http://www.penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/the-skinner-box

watch, realize, weep

Karizee.8076:

Keiran.1896:

Karizee.8076:

GW2 is more popular that WoW (in the West, they haven’t launched in China yet)

World of Warcraft: around 10M monthly subscribers.
Guild Wars 2: 3M box sold.
See what you compare…

And no, WoW’s population is not 70% from China. :P

Sure it is, that’s why they only sold 2.7mil physical copies of the Panda pac.

Fixed that for you.

critickitten.1498:

Karizee.8076:

Keiran.1896:

Karizee.8076:

GW2 is more popular that WoW (in the West, they haven’t launched in China yet)

World of Warcraft: around 10M monthly subscribers.
Guild Wars 2: 3M box sold.
See what you compare…

And no, WoW’s population is not 70% from China. :P

Sure it is, that’s why they only sold 2.7mil copies of the Panda pac.

Erm, no….

They sold 2.7 million copies of the “Panda pac” in the first week of the expansion’s release. They’ve long since passed that figure.

GW2 on the other hand only JUST passed 3 million, a full four (almost five) months after release.

WoW is far, far more popular and I can’t even believe anyone would try to argue otherwise.

WoW reached their 4 million mark 2 years after release. Give GW2 time, especially having in mind that GW2 growth stabilized at 30 000 hard copies a week, making it stable, fast and good growth for an MMO.

Mirta.5029:

critickitten.1498:

Karizee.8076:

Keiran.1896:

Karizee.8076:

GW2 is more popular that WoW (in the West, they haven’t launched in China yet)

World of Warcraft: around 10M monthly subscribers.
Guild Wars 2: 3M box sold.
See what you compare…

And no, WoW’s population is not 70% from China. :P

Sure it is, that’s why they only sold 2.7mil copies of the Panda pac.

Erm, no….

They sold 2.7 million copies of the “Panda pac” in the first week of the expansion’s release. They’ve long since passed that figure.

GW2 on the other hand only JUST passed 3 million, a full four (almost five) months after release.

WoW is far, far more popular and I can’t even believe anyone would try to argue otherwise.

WoW reached their 4 million mark 2 years after release. Give GW2 time, especially having in mind that GW2 growth stabilized at 30 000 hard copies a week, making it stable, fast and good growth for an MMO.

It took WoW a full year to hit 1 mil subs when it launched.
GW2 now has the title of the fastest growing MMO ever.

Mirta.5029:

WoW reached their 4 million mark 2 years after release. Give GW2 time, especially having in mind that GW2 growth stabilized at 30 000 hard copies a week, making it stable, fast and good growth for an MMO.

WoW also released in 2005, when there were fewer competitors and a LOT fewer buyers.

I’d love to see your evidence that GW2 is still selling 30k copies per week right now. Because my guess is that you’re misquoting this data from VGChartz, without realizing that the sales data there is only for the first ten weeks (running from August to early November). Ergo, GW2 dropped to around 25k physical sales per week within about 7 weeks of the game’s release, and there is no hard data whatsoever to support the notion that it’s still growing at that rate now.

The Pandaria expansion, which is widely considered a failure, sold 2.7 million copies within a week of release. The previous expansion, by comparison, sold 3.3 million units in 24 hours, which is why MoP is considered a “failure”. However, given that GW2 has only just recently passed 3 million copies after nearly five months of sales, they’re in absolutely no position to balk at those kinds of numbers.

Furthermore, WoW’s subscriber count following the release of Pandaria shot up to over 10 million players again, a climb of over 1 million from its previous low following the release of Cataclysm. GW2 refuses to release data about how many active players it has so it’s pure speculation how many there are, but suffice it to say that it’s probably not 10 million. It’s probably not 3 million, either, as many of the “locusts” that tend to try a game and then leave after a few months have already moved on, and they also lost an unknown number of people to the patch in November as well.

What baffles me more, however, is that I’m actually having to argue with someone over whether or not WoW is more popular. There is no question whatsoever, the facts are right there. As of right now, it’s not even competing with WoW, it’s fighting with TERA and SWTOR and Rift instead. Might that change in the long term? Maybe, but I’m not anticipating it. Not unless WoW just keels over and dies, and Blizzard’s “Titan” project is cancelled.

i skimmed that article so maybe i missed it but, i saw nothing talking about the social aspect of these games. Not many people get ‘addicted’ to single player rpgs that have a similar form of character progression that keeps you playing. I think the social aspect of MMOs is one of the main things that keeps players logging on excessively.

I think that article is kind of a cop-out. People need to realize it’s about self control. Maybe the developers ARE putting in things for the sole purpose of keeping players coming back but come on guys, it’s a video game, go outside and talk to girls.

My time on this game is dwindling in direct correlation with the rewards dwindling in-game. I push the lever over and over run to other zones, different mobs, DE’s, etc. rinse & repeat. I push the lever but I get food pellets that even the scavengers and decomposers won’t eat.
I think that either Anet gave more reward up until November and adjusted the loot tables, (instead of rewarding players up until higher levels like in the article) or something went horribly wrong with a subset of players like myself.
Either way it has come to the point that I must farm to make gold to afford to play the way I like to or drain the last of my resources and enjoy them while they last.
The concept, the design, and even the implementation were/are great.
I just feel that I am falling behind and that sucks the fun out and makes the game a lot of work. This is my escape from work and stress. When the scale tips and the game becomes stressful and work it no longer functions as enjoyment.
No matter how many times you push that lever if all you ever get is trash and no food pellet… well you have a starving rat with no room to move in a Skinner box full of crap. The incentive to push the lever eventually wanes.

SneakyLemon.8461:

i skimmed that article so maybe i missed it but, i saw nothing talking about the social aspect of these games. Not many people get ‘addicted’ to single player rpgs that have a similar form of character progression that keeps you playing. I think the social aspect of MMOs is one of the main things that keeps players logging on excessively.

I think that article is kind of a cop-out. People need to realize it’s about self control. Maybe the developers ARE putting in things for the sole purpose of keeping players coming back but come on guys, it’s a video game, go outside and talk to girls.

Definitely. We aren’t robots. We have the choice to not play. This does however work towards humanities weaknesses. This stuff will most likely make your body want it, even if you mind is saying this sucks.

But you’re right. The choice eventually lies on us. I stopped playing any grinding a week ago and the game is much better for it. I also decided not to play every day and I’m way more productive in life.

Wonderful article.

I’d love to see an exclusive account bound mini awarded daily to the person who opened the most Black Lion Chest. That sort of trick in ZT online…that’s genius and evil all wrapped into one.

I’d also like to see housing elements that deteriorate if not maintained when they DO initiate housing.

I love my skinner box. However, with games, you can always choose which box has what you consider worth while.

They should have also mentioned that a major contributing factor to whether or not people want a reward is whether or not the reward is VISIBLE to others. Sure, you may not be interested in making a legendary weapon right now…but after seeing sunrise or twilight every few days, some people start to want it.

The Gates Assassin.9827:

SneakyLemon.8461:

i skimmed that article so maybe i missed it but, i saw nothing talking about the social aspect of these games. Not many people get ‘addicted’ to single player rpgs that have a similar form of character progression that keeps you playing. I think the social aspect of MMOs is one of the main things that keeps players logging on excessively.

I think that article is kind of a cop-out. People need to realize it’s about self control. Maybe the developers ARE putting in things for the sole purpose of keeping players coming back but come on guys, it’s a video game, go outside and talk to girls.

Definitely. We aren’t robots. We have the choice to not play. This does however work towards humanities weaknesses. This stuff will most likely make your body want it, even if you mind is saying this sucks.

But you’re right. The choice eventually lies on us. I stopped playing any grinding a week ago and the game is much better for it. I also decided not to play every day and I’m way more productive in life.

I agree completely that they do prey on their players mental weaknesses. These games can and will suck you in, but you said it perfectly; the choice eventually lies on us.

all things in moderation, heroes.

critickitten.1498:

Mirta.5029:

WoW reached their 4 million mark 2 years after release. Give GW2 time, especially having in mind that GW2 growth stabilized at 30 000 hard copies a week, making it stable, fast and good growth for an MMO.

WoW also released in 2005, when there were fewer competitors and a LOT fewer buyers.

I’d love to see your evidence that GW2 is still selling 30k copies per week right now. Because my guess is that you’re misquoting this data from VGChartz, without realizing that the sales data there is only for the first ten weeks (running from August to early November). Ergo, GW2 dropped to around 25k physical sales per week within about 7 weeks of the game’s release, and there is no hard data whatsoever to support the notion that it’s still growing at that rate now.

The Pandaria expansion, which is widely considered a failure, sold 2.7 million copies within a week of release. The previous expansion, by comparison, sold 3.3 million units in 24 hours, which is why MoP is considered a “failure”. However, given that GW2 has only just recently passed 3 million copies after nearly five months of sales, they’re in absolutely no position to balk at those kinds of numbers.

Furthermore, WoW’s subscriber count following the release of Pandaria shot up to over 10 million players again, a climb of over 1 million from its previous low following the release of Cataclysm. GW2 refuses to release data about how many active players it has so it’s pure speculation how many there are, but suffice it to say that it’s probably not 10 million. It’s probably not 3 million, either, as many of the “locusts” that tend to try a game and then leave after a few months have already moved on, and they also lost an unknown number of people to the patch in November as well.

What baffles me more, however, is that I’m actually having to argue with someone over whether or not WoW is more popular. There is no question whatsoever, the facts are right there. As of right now, it’s not even competing with WoW, it’s fighting with TERA and SWTOR and Rift instead. Might that change in the long term? Maybe, but I’m not anticipating it. Not unless WoW just keels over and dies, and Blizzard’s “Titan” project is cancelled.

Actually it was released during the golden age of MMOs. Everquest, Everquest 2, Guild Wars 1, Neverwinter Nights, Ultima Online… 2005 had lots of good MMOs either starting up or up and running and there were plenty of players for all of them!

I’m not arguing that GW2 is more popular than WoW, I’m arguing that give it 8 years and it might just be.

Mirta.5029:

Actually it was released during the golden age of MMOs. Everquest, Everquest 2, Guild Wars 1, Neverwinter Nights, Ultima Online… 2005 had lots of good MMOs either starting up or up and running and there were plenty of players for all of them!

I’m not arguing that GW2 is more popular than WoW, I’m arguing that give it 8 years and it might just be.

Er, what are you talking about? You don’t remember your history very well.

Ultima Online was released in 1997, was passed by the release of Everquest in 1999, and then passed again by Dark Age of Camelot in 2001. It was not a major competitor by 2005, as several other titles had already passed it by. That’s why Ultima Online 2 was supposed to come out and help replace it (but due to the critical failure of Ultima IX, that didn’t happen).

And of the three remaining titles on your list, only one is actually an MMO (Everquest 2), who was intended as a direct competitor to WoW, but its numbers were rather quickly surpassed by Blizzard’s own title. While it’s still running today (as is GW1), it never achieved a similar level of growth.

WoW was in the perfect place at the perfect time. Competition in 2005 was indeed present but it was not nearly at the magnitude of today, where there is literally a new MMO every few weeks (F2P or otherwise). GW2 is releasing in an age where the subscription model isn’t quite dead but it’s getting awfully close, and where micro-transaction-based F2P titles are starting to gobble up a lot more market share than they used to, simply because of how many there are. It’s not even remotely the same playing field that it was in 2005.

GW2 doesn’t have the “perfect storm” that WoW had, nor does it have the steady growth of WoW, either. WoW became a juggernaut quickly. After about a year and a half of sales, it had roughly 6 million active subscribers. Assuming GW2 is at exactly 3 million as of now, they would need to sell over 57k units per week to hit the 6 million mark in roughly that same span of time (they currently are selling less than half that many), and that wouldn’t necessarily mean that they had 6 million active players, either.

GW2 isn’t WoW, and it’s never going to be as big as WoW. And frankly I’m perfectly okay with that. I don’t understand why people obsess with seeing their favorite MMO beat out WoW, it’s not like they have to surpass WoW to make a statement in the market. Look at TESO. Elements of its combat and the entire PvP structure is ripped wholesale from this game….the fact that upcoming competitors are ripping off GW2 is already cause for celebration.

critickitten.1498:

Er, what are you talking about? You don’t remember your history very well.

Ultima Online was released in 1997, was passed by the release of Everquest in 1999, and then passed again by Dark Age of Camelot in 2001. It was not a major competitor by 2005, as several other titles had already passed it by. That’s why Ultima Online 2 was supposed to come out and help replace it (but due to the critical failure of Ultima IX, that didn’t happen).

And of the three remaining titles on your list, only one is actually an MMO (Everquest 2), who was intended as a direct competitor to WoW, but its numbers were rather quickly surpassed by Blizzard’s own title. While it’s still running today (as is GW1), it never achieved a similar level of growth.

WoW was in the perfect place at the perfect time. Competition in 2005 was indeed present but it was not nearly at the magnitude of today, where there is literally a new MMO every few weeks (F2P or otherwise). GW2 is releasing in an age where the subscription model isn’t quite dead but it’s getting awfully close, and where micro-transaction-based F2P titles are starting to gobble up a lot more market share than they used to, simply because of how many there are. It’s not even remotely the same playing field that it was in 2005.

GW2 doesn’t have the “perfect storm” that WoW had, nor does it have the steady growth of WoW, either. WoW became a juggernaut quickly. After about a year and a half of sales, it had roughly 6 million active subscribers. Assuming GW2 is at exactly 3 million as of now, they would need to sell over 57k units per week to hit the 6 million mark in roughly that same span of time (they currently are selling less than half that many), and that wouldn’t necessarily mean that they had 6 million active players, either.

GW2 isn’t WoW, and it’s never going to be as big as WoW. And frankly I’m perfectly okay with that. I don’t understand why people obsess with seeing their favorite MMO beat out WoW, it’s not like they have to surpass WoW to make a statement in the market. Look at TESO. Elements of its combat and the entire PvP structure is ripped wholesale from this game….the fact that upcoming competitors are ripping off GW2 is already cause for celebration.

They’re selling 25K units without counting digital. Digital is estimated to make up 70% of all sales. They probably do have enough growth to reach WoW’s milestones.

Guys this is not gw vs wow thread.
And please read article before posting otherwise you miss theme.

Just thinking…. WvW, you get almost no rewards there, little addictive features yet its one very played side of this game. And how many patches/expansions/extra work except balance/exploitation wvw got and how many pve side did? So yeah when thinking this way, developers benefit in long run more if they make interesting gameplay on its own rather to make it boring and put those add. features + its more fair to players and they are more satisfied.

I liked that article because it gave me nice evaluation tool if game is good or not, if its worth being played/worth my time. Would just imagine how fun would be whitout those features and see.

I’ve read the article before. It’s somewhat accurate, though some bits are exaggerated for drama’s sake as is usual with Cracked articles.

I only posted to comment on this notion that GW2 is going to compete with WoW when all statistical evidence runs contrary to that notion. Such as this post below:

Mirta.5029:

They’re selling 25K units without counting digital. Digital is estimated to make up 70% of all sales. They probably do have enough growth to reach WoW’s milestones.

I asked you in my previous post to post the data proving your case, and you did not. So I’ll ask again: I challenge you to post the data that confirms your claims, otherwise I’m to assume you’re simply making them up.

As I pointed out, the data you’re referring to is from back in October and November, when they were selling 25k physical copies of the game (that’s not counting digital sales) per week. There are no records of physical copies sold on that list since early November, and it’s worth noting that this data ends before the release of Lost Shores.

There is no data to confirm either the notion that 70% of their current sales are digital (which would suggest that their sales should be approaching 5 million by now if it were still accurate, instead of only 3 million), nor the notion that they are currently selling 30k copies of the game per week.

You are making assumptions based on data that is now three months old, it is entirely unreliable. If you can post alternative data that proves your case, then fine, but otherwise you need to stop making assertions of fact without evidence to prove it.