Guild Wars 2

My guild does not participate in GvG, but I do not like the potential snowball problem the additional stats give.

Extra points for stomp? Good
Extra stats? Bad

Switch the stats out for Exp, Karma, Wxp, and gold find.

besaah.2516:

mistsim.2748:

DM in gw2 is a LOT of fun and the game is by nature much better balanced with DM in mind. if you take away conquest, build diversity explodes. this is why WvW and GvG are so popular, and spvp is not.

conquest involves way more strategie and teamplay, the difficultie ist naturaly higher. with having the option to just simulate a deathmatch people will obviously go for the deathmatch. after all it’s more fun to kill people rather than out strategize them.

conquest involves more mobility and map awareness, but it kills build diversity. and one thing that cant be denied is that conquest is not fun to play or watch. most pvp’ers dont participate in spvp (theyre in wvw), and the mode is literally impossible to watch and commentate.

mistsim.2748:

besaah.2516:

mistsim.2748:

DM in gw2 is a LOT of fun and the game is by nature much better balanced with DM in mind. if you take away conquest, build diversity explodes. this is why WvW and GvG are so popular, and spvp is not.

conquest involves way more strategie and teamplay, the difficultie ist naturaly higher. with having the option to just simulate a deathmatch people will obviously go for the deathmatch. after all it’s more fun to kill people rather than out strategize them.

conquest involves more mobility and map awareness, but it kills build diversity. and one thing that cant be denied is that conquest is not fun to play or watch. most pvp’ers dont participate in spvp (theyre in wvw), and the mode is literally impossible to watch and commentate.

couldn’t agree more, its why myself and many others i know WvW, just because its as close to a DM style of play as possible atm not to mention allows build diversity.

ITT: officers without badges. Tread carefully.

I see you follow the show Devon, you actually said GvG and impressive in the same sentence ^^ I might have been wrong on some things, or maybe just overly dramatic. But tbh that was the vibe i was getting from you guys. And I’m all about keeping it real.

I certainly cannot see how bloodlust is going to help with anything… in a nutshell you are rewarding the zerg play and server stacking. So at this point id rather have you malicious in my mind rather than incompetent. Your choice I guess.

It was within your power to save this community while implementing new stuff and life in wvw. You chose not to. That is all in your hands. Nothing else i can really say.

DevonCarver.5370:

I have said it before and it clearly bears repeating, our focus is on making improvements to WvW as a game type. When we implement changes it is with that goal in mind. We are aware of the GvG scene and we think it is really impressive, but the effects of any of our changes on GvG as it currently exists are not a priority for us. As such, when changes do come in, like the new map, some of them will be a positive for the GvG crowd and some will not. However, none of the changes we make are intended to stamp out GvG nor are they intended to make GvG more popular. When/if we focus our attention on GvG we will do our utmost to make it a game type that fits the needs of as many people as possible. That time is not now.

We are focused on WvW right now and improving it. Please try not to conflate our decisions in regards to WvW as some sort of judgement or endorsement of GvG in any form.

The fact that you will actually go through with such a change (bloodlust buff granting stats increase) just highlights how beyond clueless you really are. People have pointed out why this will have a negative impact, even WvW as a whole will suffer from this one change, the snowballing effect will be immense.

But by all means, don’t listen to the valid feedback you’ve been given from the people actually playing this game, it won’t be the first time you do this, and probably not the last either.

DevonCarver.5370:

I have said it before and it clearly bears repeating, our focus is on making improvements to WvW as a game type. When we implement changes it is with that goal in mind. We are aware of the GvG scene and we think it is really impressive, but the effects of any of our changes on GvG as it currently exists are not a priority for us. As such, when changes do come in, like the new map, some of them will be a positive for the GvG crowd and some will not. However, none of the changes we make are intended to stamp out GvG nor are they intended to make GvG more popular. When/if we focus our attention on GvG we will do our utmost to make it a game type that fits the needs of as many people as possible. That time is not now.

We are focused on WvW right now and improving it. Please try not to conflate our decisions in regards to WvW as some sort of judgement or endorsement of GvG in any form.

I still don’t see how an unfair stat advantage helps anyone, even ignoring GvG. This game is wholly centered on balance. Every class has access to the same boons, every class has access to the same stats, every weapon set has pros and cons, and no one is inherently worlds stronger than anyone else. That’s why the GvG community exists, because the balance is good enough to have some really amazing fights. The GvG community and the open field community are synonymous. My guild does do GvGs, but not more than once every week or two. We do, however, raid and open field fight every single night, and even when up against superior numbers who have more supply, more siege, and more bodies, we still can win, because this game really does allow for skill based combat to shine through, and that’s what I love about it.

However, the Orb bonus is in direct opposition to that. I know that +50-150 to each stat isn’t a HUGE increase, but it is enough to turn the tides when you’re up against superior numbers. It hides mistakes from enemies, such as bad builds, or bad coordination, and allows them to be on a higher level passively than they would normally have to work for. It gives those giant zergs a potential to not have to try to improve at all, and hurts the smaller groups trying to kill them.

On the opposite side of that, I don’t think more organized groups want a stat bonus, either. I’m sure that VotF and Scnd want to showcase their skills against other groups and not have to wonder if the stat bonus they have gave them that extra advantage in a fight. It adds a layer of unfairness that I’ve felt like this game has done a very good job of avoiding in the past.

The 1/3rd point per stomp alone is a good enough addition to the game, in my opinion, and the stat bonus hurts the open field aspect of the game greatly. I feel like this aspect of the game has been long ignored, probably because the groups that are open field enthusiasts are the same as the GvG community, and have been framing many of their complaints with that in mind. So, I ask you, not as a GvG guild leader, but as an open field guild leader, to review these changes carefully before implementing them. My guild and others really enjoy the group combat aspect of this game, and I feel like with many changes that have been implemented, we are not taken into consideration.

Either way, thanks for at least acknowledging this thread. That was a surprise to many, I’m sure.

DevonCarver.5370:

I have said it before and it clearly bears repeating, our focus is on making improvements to WvW as a game type. When we implement changes it is with that goal in mind. We are aware of the GvG scene and we think it is really impressive, but the effects of any of our changes on GvG as it currently exists are not a priority for us. As such, when changes do come in, like the new map, some of them will be a positive for the GvG crowd and some will not. However, none of the changes we make are intended to stamp out GvG nor are they intended to make GvG more popular. When/if we focus our attention on GvG we will do our utmost to make it a game type that fits the needs of as many people as possible. That time is not now.

We are focused on WvW right now and improving it. Please try not to conflate our decisions in regards to WvW as some sort of judgement or endorsement of GvG in any form.

So we both know how stubborn you are. We know it from this forum, we know it from that “other” place that you blatantly disregard any feedback given and you once again come out of the ignorance cave you quite blatantly live in to shock us once again.

Let me make it quite clear for you, since my last post was so easily missed. Your changes are NOT making WvW more entertaining, nor is it making it more fun. All the changes that have been done in WvW (minus culling) have done nothing but turn it into a casual mess where people run around in a single zerg ball. Now the groups that dont do this are groups that pride themselves on competetive fighting and showing how strong that can be when not having to resort to the whole zerg meta – You are basically giving the two fingers to these people, the people who are attempting to be good at your WvW game. You are actually giving the zerg meta more of an ability to influence and essentially turning WvW into the largest blob wins…

Hopefully you can understand this and remove the whole WvW vs GvG thing since most GvG guilds are WvWers and they play the WvW game far more than most…

Seems like they try to move www more serious direction, but i just can’t figure out why it is still 24/7 game mode. Kitten points probably tic even when nobody can’t get in www so overal score is kitten anyways and most of players don’t even care about score. League rewards need to be something special if you wanna force players play like you want. Maybe we even get some champ farmers sit in keeps and spam arrow carts if winners get legendaries.

Aneu.1748:

DevonCarver.5370:

I have said it before and it clearly bears repeating, our focus is on making improvements to WvW as a game type. When we implement changes it is with that goal in mind. We are aware of the GvG scene and we think it is really impressive, but the effects of any of our changes on GvG as it currently exists are not a priority for us. As such, when changes do come in, like the new map, some of them will be a positive for the GvG crowd and some will not. However, none of the changes we make are intended to stamp out GvG nor are they intended to make GvG more popular. When/if we focus our attention on GvG we will do our utmost to make it a game type that fits the needs of as many people as possible. That time is not now.

We are focused on WvW right now and improving it. Please try not to conflate our decisions in regards to WvW as some sort of judgement or endorsement of GvG in any form.

So we both know how stubborn you are. We know it from this forum, we know it from that “other” place that you blatantly disregard any feedback given and you once again come out of the ignorance cave you quite blatantly live in to shock us once again.

Let me make it quite clear for you, since my last post was so easily missed. Your changes are NOT making WvW more entertaining, nor is it making it more fun. All the changes that have been done in WvW (minus culling) have done nothing but turn it into a casual mess where people run around in a single zerg ball. Now the groups that dont do this are groups that pride themselves on competetive fighting and showing how strong that can be when not having to resort to the whole zerg meta – You are basically giving the two fingers to these people, the people who are attempting to be good at your WvW game. You are actually giving the zerg meta more of an ability to influence and essentially turning WvW into the largest blob wins…

Hopefully you can understand this and remove the whole WvW vs GvG thing since most GvG guilds are WvWers and they play the WvW game far more than most…

Opinion of a GvGer.

Troop.1369:

Aneu.1748:

DevonCarver.5370:

I have said it before and it clearly bears repeating, our focus is on making improvements to WvW as a game type. When we implement changes it is with that goal in mind. We are aware of the GvG scene and we think it is really impressive, but the effects of any of our changes on GvG as it currently exists are not a priority for us. As such, when changes do come in, like the new map, some of them will be a positive for the GvG crowd and some will not. However, none of the changes we make are intended to stamp out GvG nor are they intended to make GvG more popular. When/if we focus our attention on GvG we will do our utmost to make it a game type that fits the needs of as many people as possible. That time is not now.

We are focused on WvW right now and improving it. Please try not to conflate our decisions in regards to WvW as some sort of judgement or endorsement of GvG in any form.

So we both know how stubborn you are. We know it from this forum, we know it from that “other” place that you blatantly disregard any feedback given and you once again come out of the ignorance cave you quite blatantly live in to shock us once again.

Let me make it quite clear for you, since my last post was so easily missed. Your changes are NOT making WvW more entertaining, nor is it making it more fun. All the changes that have been done in WvW (minus culling) have done nothing but turn it into a casual mess where people run around in a single zerg ball. Now the groups that dont do this are groups that pride themselves on competetive fighting and showing how strong that can be when not having to resort to the whole zerg meta – You are basically giving the two fingers to these people, the people who are attempting to be good at your WvW game. You are actually giving the zerg meta more of an ability to influence and essentially turning WvW into the largest blob wins…

Hopefully you can understand this and remove the whole WvW vs GvG thing since most GvG guilds are WvWers and they play the WvW game far more than most…

Opinion of a GvGer.

No, it’s the opinion of a WvWer like anyone else. VotF, like every other GvG guild, raids in WvW more often than they GvG. People who keep breaking it into “GvG vs WvW” are ignorant of what these guilds do. If anything, it’s “pugs vs Guilds” because I’ve never heard of any of the guilds in the signatures of those who oppose GvG.

mistsim.2748:

conquest involves more mobility and map awareness, but it kills build diversity. and one thing that cant be denied is that conquest is not fun to play or watch. most pvp’ers dont participate in spvp (theyre in wvw), and the mode is literally impossible to watch and commentate.

5v5 conquest puts a lot more emphasis on individual skill and offers more room for “the plays”.

the whole not-fun-thing is just your opinion and since it’s just your opinion it is indeed arguable. it’s like saying apples taste better than pears.

to me gvg’s are less watchable than conquest. since you can barally see what exactly people are doing with all the effects cluttering the screen. in conquest you can at least still observer rotations and once the ai meta is gone you will have a better time in telling what exactly is happening in a 4v4 mid fight.

Are you joking? Moved again?

DevonCarver.5370:

I have said it before and it clearly bears repeating, our focus is on making improvements to WvW as a game type. When we implement changes it is with that goal in mind. We are aware of the GvG scene and we think it is really impressive, but the effects of any of our changes on GvG as it currently exists are not a priority for us. As such, when changes do come in, like the new map, some of them will be a positive for the GvG crowd and some will not. However, none of the changes we make are intended to stamp out GvG nor are they intended to make GvG more popular. When/if we focus our attention on GvG we will do our utmost to make it a game type that fits the needs of as many people as possible. That time is not now.

We are focused on WvW right now and improving it. Please try not to conflate our decisions in regards to WvW as some sort of judgement or endorsement of GvG in any form.

Dear Devon,

I actually do like the changes to the borderlands in regards ro removing the lake and adding more points of contention to fight over. It looks fun. But if we could get a toggle feature on the orb buffs that allows us to choose whether we want to have the buff up or not, it would resolve these issues and allow people to seek out duels and other organized fights still.

lollasaurus.1457:

DevonCarver.5370:

I have said it before and it clearly bears repeating, our focus is on making improvements to WvW as a game type. When we implement changes it is with that goal in mind. We are aware of the GvG scene and we think it is really impressive, but the effects of any of our changes on GvG as it currently exists are not a priority for us. As such, when changes do come in, like the new map, some of them will be a positive for the GvG crowd and some will not. However, none of the changes we make are intended to stamp out GvG nor are they intended to make GvG more popular. When/if we focus our attention on GvG we will do our utmost to make it a game type that fits the needs of as many people as possible. That time is not now.

We are focused on WvW right now and improving it. Please try not to conflate our decisions in regards to WvW as some sort of judgement or endorsement of GvG in any form.

Dear Devon,

I actually do like the changes to the borderlands in regards ro removing the lake and adding more points of contention to fight over. It looks fun. But if we could get a toggle feature on the orb buffs that allows us to choose whether we want to have the buff up or not, it would resolve these issues and allow people to seek out duels and other organized fights still.

What that would do is create inconsistency between players If I see an invader from the server that holds a buff I am going to assume he has the buff when in fact he might not. Yes, I can see the buff presumably by directly targeting but that will involve me having to get close enough to do so.

Here is a suggestion that they might be bit more receptive to a WvW trap that strips the buff from anyone that triggers it, say for 30 minutes (preferably with more than a single trigger per trap, say 5 or 10, I have never used WvW traps so dunno how they actually work)-

Yes it is high maintenance by comparison, but it is also little less GvG specific (hence them being more receptive at this point in time), and it would still give you 30 minutes of level playing field assuming everyone plays nice. You might need to introduce some sort of half time system if they decide to go this route, but hey being able to organize GvG in (mechanically) hostile enviroment I am sure you could pull this off too.

Granted I can’t say I am an expert on balance so this suggestion might create problems in other areas, however, the point I am making is I guess rather than introduce very focus group type option and create strange inconsistencies introduce a legit mechanic for the opposing side to combat the buff on a smaller scale (ie. rather than having to remove buff from all three maps by using the cap point allow neutralizing on case by case basis so to speak for a short time).

Esuni.2498:

I’m the ignorant one? Show me the proof that 70% of small guilds are GvG guilds. The GvG community is small compared to all the players that participate in WvW, they shouldn’t be denied a fine update simply due to a style of play that was NEVER meant to be played in WvW

Ill just go by the servers that I know personally

Aurora glade:
EB full of pugs
spread over the borderlands: TUP, vcy, FIRE, NR, NP, DAWN and a couple of 5 man guilds
all of the above said guilds GvG. they bring about 150 players to the field total, AG doesnt have queues.
This said, there are 2-3 small guilds that do not GvG, the big guilds are diminant in WvW and do GvG so here you could say its more than the said number.

Far shiverpeaks:
+- 50 pugs total mostly on EB
pvx guilds focussed on pve who only WvW 1-3 times a week and do nto gvg: GOT/GOTD and AoA, these guilds are not very active but bring a total of 60 players to the field on active days, they mostly command pugs aswell.
These people play mostly for points.
WvW guilds are punk, kale and DW they bring about 80 players, all of them do GvG aswell and are considered the roaming guilds there.

I’m fairly certain gandara, Gunnars hold, piken square and augury rock have it similar to this, some of the blob servers have roaming guilds aswell which also, oops, happen to GvG
Roamers want good and fair fights, this is why they GvG aswell.

Now stop looking at your server alone and think outside of your blob servers

To add to this, pretty much every WvW guild on FA also GvG’s. Even PvX guilds like [HOPE] have been GvGing.

Izay.8725:

You have no proof what so ever that most “roam” guilds are GvG guilds so please stop claiming so unless you have actual proof, which you don’t.

The guy named off a bunch of guilds that GvG, and so am I. The only WvW guild on FA I can think of that doesn’t GvG is [CL]. However they could be and I might just not know it, they’re a Spanish speaking guild so I cant communicate with them really. I’m pretty sure most all of our guilds also have over 100 people each.

Izay.8725:

I was being generous with the numbers, I’m aware some guilds have more than 35 members, but most guilds have a set roster for GvG’s, that’s why I clinged to the 35 since most guilds GvG in 15s,20s,25s

I’m pretty sure most all of our guilds also have over 100 people. We also switch people out a lot. So while the battle might be 15v15, by the end our team has fielded 20-30 people.

Izay.8725:

I only claimed 10% of the online population to give some form of an idea. I imagine the number is much greater if you include cusual/hardcore WvWers.

For something to be completely community driven like GvG is, and have over 20,000 people actively participating with little hang ups in a public space, is a huge anomaly. That alone deserves attention from the devs.

As far as the update, as someone who only plays WvW (really I don’t sPvP and I’ve never done a fractal) I think the update is bad for WvW, as well as GvG. I like both, but the update is just a bad idea. It’s not me being selfish of WvW players or anything.

DevonCarver.5370:

We are focused on WvW right now and improving it.

By enhancing the coverage war? Thats all this update is going to do and I don’t think you realize things like that. With the new match-up system this will be worse. FA had to fight CD for nearly a month, they wouldn’t of had a chance to hold the middle of the BL. Not because they’re bad, but because they don’t have the man power to do so. The buff would of made it harder for them to do well, and harder for us to get good fights

Concentration Camp? Like seriously? Get your kitten together!

Lanimal.6541:

Asudementio.8526:

Esuni.2498:

Lzay I did not claim we are bigger than the wvw population, Im sayign we are a big part of it and the hardcore part of it. If they wish to push us into the ground then thats their decision but they shouldnt do it the way they do it now as its unprofessional and insanely rude towards their customers.

Everyone can agree that the altar system is a good idea, however everyone also agrees that the stat buff should not be implemented for various reasons.
Anet not listening to their playerbase is a bigger concern than this buff in general.
GvG players are a big victim of this on top of problems it would already cause and that is the point that is made.
Insulting GvG or arguing about how big or skilled it is should not be included in that discussion

@cimon, enjoy your 24 empty servers with 3 stacked servers blobbing the world

Because you can’t play for ppt and be hardcore?

And no, not everyone agrees that an orb mechanic should not have a stat buff. The buff has to be worthwhile, stats ensure that. We can argue how much of a stat buff it should be, but there are those who think a stat buff is not a bad thing.

That is part of the problem with the GvG community, they stomp around and act like they represent the entirety of WvW and that unless they get everything on their list of demands then there will be no WvW.

Also, the GvG community has been inviting resentment towards itself with how it treats not only Dev livestreams but discussions counter to their positions in general.

You know me Asudem. I know all about that PPT game and was more hardcore about it than most did on TC but I can tell you that stat buff is in no way a positive addition to the game for WvWers or GvG-ers alike. Areanent with their subsequent changes has moved the game to support larger and larger blobs. WXP, then siege being tradeable and now these stat buffs.

The orb bonuses should not have been stat buffs all also should not spread across the whole wvw population. They should have made it so it had buffs such as quicker upgrades, more supply per dolyak. Things that directly add to defense and PPT rather than stats that help blobs and servers with superior coverage. They made a big mistake here again.

Secondly, GvG is very much an active and large part of WvW; however, I agree that ANET needs to separate GvG from WvW but they actually need to come out and say something on the subject or they are going to see a drastic drop in organized wvw population. This doesnt change the fact that arenanet has been kittenting on normal WvW from their patches in the last 6 or so months as well. Orbageddon sucks for us GvG-ers yeah but its equally bad for WvW-ers and PPT players.

The orb mechanic has to have meaningful impact on how WvW is played. I think stat buffs are the most straightforward means of doing this without HAVING TO snuff out all playability. The stat buffs need to be impactful, not overpowered. I wouldn’t mind the buffs not giving stats but unless Anet can devise a way to have the buff effect the gameplay in a meaningful way, which they seem woefully incapable of doing thus why they fell back on a stat buff, the orb mechanic may as well not exist.

I’m kind of neutral on this topic, I really would like to hear from Anet the reason why they believe that a stat bonus is good for the borderlands. On the other hand I understand how GvG teams CAN hurt a matchup by doing their thing and prevent others in the queue who want their server to win the battle a place on the map.

Is this bloodlust boon beneficial to smaller more organized teams / is it zerg-breaking, or do servers with more people always have the advantage?

ParaldaWind.4523:

Troop.1369:

Aneu.1748:

DevonCarver.5370:

I have said it before and it clearly bears repeating, our focus is on making improvements to WvW as a game type. When we implement changes it is with that goal in mind. We are aware of the GvG scene and we think it is really impressive, but the effects of any of our changes on GvG as it currently exists are not a priority for us. As such, when changes do come in, like the new map, some of them will be a positive for the GvG crowd and some will not. However, none of the changes we make are intended to stamp out GvG nor are they intended to make GvG more popular. When/if we focus our attention on GvG we will do our utmost to make it a game type that fits the needs of as many people as possible. That time is not now.

We are focused on WvW right now and improving it. Please try not to conflate our decisions in regards to WvW as some sort of judgement or endorsement of GvG in any form.

So we both know how stubborn you are. We know it from this forum, we know it from that “other” place that you blatantly disregard any feedback given and you once again come out of the ignorance cave you quite blatantly live in to shock us once again.

Let me make it quite clear for you, since my last post was so easily missed. Your changes are NOT making WvW more entertaining, nor is it making it more fun. All the changes that have been done in WvW (minus culling) have done nothing but turn it into a casual mess where people run around in a single zerg ball. Now the groups that dont do this are groups that pride themselves on competetive fighting and showing how strong that can be when not having to resort to the whole zerg meta – You are basically giving the two fingers to these people, the people who are attempting to be good at your WvW game. You are actually giving the zerg meta more of an ability to influence and essentially turning WvW into the largest blob wins…

Hopefully you can understand this and remove the whole WvW vs GvG thing since most GvG guilds are WvWers and they play the WvW game far more than most…

Opinion of a GvGer.

No, it’s the opinion of a WvWer like anyone else. VotF, like every other GvG guild, raids in WvW more often than they GvG. People who keep breaking it into “GvG vs WvW” are ignorant of what these guilds do. If anything, it’s “pugs vs Guilds” because I’ve never heard of any of the guilds in the signatures of those who oppose GvG.

Because a guild that doesn’t fit into your radical like pocket of influence is not a true guild? This is why the WvW community is splitting; this is why there are such nasty responses to GvG enthusiasts. Just because my guild doesn’t sit at the windmill and arm-chair command the actions of other guilds as we spazz all over 20 people from an opposing server does not make us any less of a guild nor any poorer of players.

Crise.9401:

lollasaurus.1457:

DevonCarver.5370:

I have said it before and it clearly bears repeating, our focus is on making improvements to WvW as a game type. When we implement changes it is with that goal in mind. We are aware of the GvG scene and we think it is really impressive, but the effects of any of our changes on GvG as it currently exists are not a priority for us. As such, when changes do come in, like the new map, some of them will be a positive for the GvG crowd and some will not. However, none of the changes we make are intended to stamp out GvG nor are they intended to make GvG more popular. When/if we focus our attention on GvG we will do our utmost to make it a game type that fits the needs of as many people as possible. That time is not now.

We are focused on WvW right now and improving it. Please try not to conflate our decisions in regards to WvW as some sort of judgement or endorsement of GvG in any form.

Dear Devon,

I actually do like the changes to the borderlands in regards ro removing the lake and adding more points of contention to fight over. It looks fun. But if we could get a toggle feature on the orb buffs that allows us to choose whether we want to have the buff up or not, it would resolve these issues and allow people to seek out duels and other organized fights still.

What that would do is create inconsistency between players If I see an invader from the server that holds a buff I am going to assume he has the buff when in fact he might not. Yes, I can see the buff presumably by directly targeting but that will involve me having to get close enough to do so.

Here is a suggestion that they might be bit more receptive to a WvW trap that strips the buff from anyone that triggers it, say for 30 minutes (preferably with more than a single trigger per trap, say 5 or 10, I have never used WvW traps so dunno how they actually work)-

Yes it is high maintenance by comparison, but it is also little less GvG specific (hence them being more receptive at this point in time), and it would still give you 30 minutes of level playing field assuming everyone plays nice. You might need to introduce some sort of half time system if they decide to go this route, but hey being able to organize GvG in (mechanically) hostile enviroment I am sure you could pull this off too.

Granted I can’t say I am an expert on balance so this suggestion might create problems in other areas, however, the point I am making is I guess rather than introduce very focus group type option and create strange inconsistencies introduce a legit mechanic for the opposing side to combat the buff on a smaller scale (ie. rather than having to remove buff from all three maps by using the cap point allow neutralizing on case by case basis so to speak for a short time).

Why not add a small extra map, with no objectives, larger queue size, and copied terrain from the BLs that can serve as a training ground? Each server has a spawn area with preplaced siege, camp set ups, lord’s rooms, and mini towers where they can practice siege abilities and assaulting lords. Outside of spawn is a field for open roaming and fighting. The buff doesn’t carry over to the map, the map could serve as a place for new players to get their feet wet and be taught, and a place where GvG and solo roamers could frolic.

Anet compared to executioners and GvGers compared to inmates and Guild Wars 2 is the concentration camp? That was a dumb segment of the video and way to over the top. Insisting there is some kind of Armageddon(which implies a war or final battle) coming between GvGers and Anet and that GvGers should prepare countermeasures. Terrible message is terrible. Just deliver the message without all the hyperbole obviously a sheep (the OP) thought it was some battle cry and posted it like people are mindless Zombies.

Just on the segment linked on the OP it was terrible Ogre says in his response that is the Vibe he got but he is all about keeping it real. That is not keeping it real at all that’s delusional.

I’m not against GvG at all I have my own opinion on both sides of the matter as I also GvG but just on topic about this Message linked in the OP I do not agree with at all.

I was chatting on twitch to the guy from EP streaming the other night when they fought AGG and I figured it’d be good to post here on the subject as well. I fully support GvG, its extremely fun to watch. But the way some of you act about this is pure childish and extremely selfish.

Firstly if you guys ever want to be taken seriously then you need to stop the antics like spamming GW2’s twitch chat when they hold these live streams. You can say you’re bringing attention to GvG that way, but its the wrong type of attention. Most people see you spamming that nonsense and think “Wow these guys are pretty childish for spamming the chat box with this stuff”. There are better and more constructive ways of trying to get this game type added into the game where it wont be effected, etc. If you guys actually organize yourselves and do it in a professional manner you might be taken seriously instead of “lolz #magswag #yolo brah #gvg”. No that doesn’t make you cool, it makes you look stupid. Its fine to be passionate about something, and to strive to improve the community that you enjoy and love but seriously theres better ways to approach this subject.

Secondly on to the difference…like I said earlier I fully support GvG but why do people fail to realize WvW is not GvG? The only place you can do GvG is in wvw, I realize that, but you have to realize WvW was not developed for the sole purpose of GvG fights. If it was there wouldn’t be any towers, no keeps, no ppt, etc. You guys have to come to a understanding that anet is trying to develop that game type, and if it effects GvGs well thats just something you need to adapt to until GvG is given its own area/map/or what ever they plan to do. Like I said, I know GvG can only be done in WvW but you guys just need to give it time, you may be feeling ignored but i’m sure anet hears you guys.

Lastly this kind of touches on the first topic I was speaking about, but it also comes back to trying to get a general understanding to the GvG community. If I wasnt a fan of GvG and I had been watching some of the twitch streams, or saw how some of you guys act on the forums I swear a ton of you emulate veruca salt(think back to willy wonka). You guys want everything and you guys want it now, sadly thats not how things work in the real world. Why do you guys deserve anything with the way some of the community acts? I understand that they don’t represent the whole community, and theres also people who act completely different, but the most vocal ones truly portray you guys in a negative manner. I know that not everyone can understand this, and I know people will probably get all kitten with what I said but its simply the truth.

All in all, I really hope that Anet does eventually respond and develop a map purely dedicated to GvG, possibly like the jump puzzles as in separate map you can jump to. Or even a game type worthy of the GvG community to play. I think that GvG’s are more entertaining to watch that spvp and theres a lot more dynamics going on with movement, combo fields, etc. Hopefully you guys take this as advice and as me trying to help your community rather then in a offensive manner as i’m really rooting for you guys. And if i’ve offended you, too bad I don’t care anyway.

Just wanting to chime in with a thought, it may not be a simple setting but the ability to balance things out will be there from the get go. Guilds could deploy strike teams to their respective borderlands to keep their own BL buff to themselves, therefore all teams will have +50, noone has +150, things remain balanced.

Call it a convoluted and bad solution if you will, but if you ask me the meta PvP between the teams trying to support the GvG and any WvW players trying to ruin their fun will add to the show. Say what you will about how you shouldn’t have to do that to have your fun, but that’s what you get when you try to bootstrap honorable, organised battles into a game mode that is by its very nature and intent chaotic and unpredictable.

This is a battle you folks are probably better off fighting with the virtual sword in game than the virtual pen in the forums. At the very least, you’ll save yourselves a lot of time and effort till Anet actually gets around to implementing a game mode for you guys to do this in officially.

tl;dr: Can’t win what you want with reason? Take it by force.

Asudementio.8526:

Lanimal.6541:

Asudementio.8526:

Esuni.2498:

Lzay I did not claim we are bigger than the wvw population, Im sayign we are a big part of it and the hardcore part of it. If they wish to push us into the ground then thats their decision but they shouldnt do it the way they do it now as its unprofessional and insanely rude towards their customers.

Everyone can agree that the altar system is a good idea, however everyone also agrees that the stat buff should not be implemented for various reasons.
Anet not listening to their playerbase is a bigger concern than this buff in general.
GvG players are a big victim of this on top of problems it would already cause and that is the point that is made.
Insulting GvG or arguing about how big or skilled it is should not be included in that discussion

@cimon, enjoy your 24 empty servers with 3 stacked servers blobbing the world

Because you can’t play for ppt and be hardcore?

And no, not everyone agrees that an orb mechanic should not have a stat buff. The buff has to be worthwhile, stats ensure that. We can argue how much of a stat buff it should be, but there are those who think a stat buff is not a bad thing.

That is part of the problem with the GvG community, they stomp around and act like they represent the entirety of WvW and that unless they get everything on their list of demands then there will be no WvW.

Also, the GvG community has been inviting resentment towards itself with how it treats not only Dev livestreams but discussions counter to their positions in general.

You know me Asudem. I know all about that PPT game and was more hardcore about it than most did on TC but I can tell you that stat buff is in no way a positive addition to the game for WvWers or GvG-ers alike. Areanent with their subsequent changes has moved the game to support larger and larger blobs. WXP, then siege being tradeable and now these stat buffs.

The orb bonuses should not have been stat buffs all also should not spread across the whole wvw population. They should have made it so it had buffs such as quicker upgrades, more supply per dolyak. Things that directly add to defense and PPT rather than stats that help blobs and servers with superior coverage. They made a big mistake here again.

Secondly, GvG is very much an active and large part of WvW; however, I agree that ANET needs to separate GvG from WvW but they actually need to come out and say something on the subject or they are going to see a drastic drop in organized wvw population. This doesnt change the fact that arenanet has been kittenting on normal WvW from their patches in the last 6 or so months as well. Orbageddon sucks for us GvG-ers yeah but its equally bad for WvW-ers and PPT players.

The orb mechanic has to have meaningful impact on how WvW is played. I think stat buffs are the most straightforward means of doing this without HAVING TO snuff out all playability. The stat buffs need to be impactful, not overpowered. I wouldn’t mind the buffs not giving stats but unless Anet can devise a way to have the buff effect the gameplay in a meaningful way, which they seem woefully incapable of doing thus why they fell back on a stat buff, the orb mechanic may as well not exist.

10% more hp to all walls and doors per orb. 10% move speed to yaks, or 15% strength to guards. maybe even 5% dmg to siege engines vs walls/doors per orb but that may support the snowball.

^^ stuff like this, is WvW and makes a huge difference in the long term.

suprNovae.5410:

P.S. I bet this thread will be getting moved to Community Corner > Linksville. Seeya there. :P

NAILED IT!

We all know that we have the attention on Anet now, so as a GVG community, it’s time to keep positive and keep supporting our community. Aggravating Devon and others will not bring about change any quicker and may do a lot more harm than good.

We’ve been heard, so lets get back to fighting.

Odinzu.9645:

Asudementio.8526:

Lanimal.6541:

Asudementio.8526:

Esuni.2498:

Lzay I did not claim we are bigger than the wvw population, Im sayign we are a big part of it and the hardcore part of it. If they wish to push us into the ground then thats their decision but they shouldnt do it the way they do it now as its unprofessional and insanely rude towards their customers.

Everyone can agree that the altar system is a good idea, however everyone also agrees that the stat buff should not be implemented for various reasons.
Anet not listening to their playerbase is a bigger concern than this buff in general.
GvG players are a big victim of this on top of problems it would already cause and that is the point that is made.
Insulting GvG or arguing about how big or skilled it is should not be included in that discussion

@cimon, enjoy your 24 empty servers with 3 stacked servers blobbing the world

Because you can’t play for ppt and be hardcore?

And no, not everyone agrees that an orb mechanic should not have a stat buff. The buff has to be worthwhile, stats ensure that. We can argue how much of a stat buff it should be, but there are those who think a stat buff is not a bad thing.

That is part of the problem with the GvG community, they stomp around and act like they represent the entirety of WvW and that unless they get everything on their list of demands then there will be no WvW.

Also, the GvG community has been inviting resentment towards itself with how it treats not only Dev livestreams but discussions counter to their positions in general.

You know me Asudem. I know all about that PPT game and was more hardcore about it than most did on TC but I can tell you that stat buff is in no way a positive addition to the game for WvWers or GvG-ers alike. Areanent with their subsequent changes has moved the game to support larger and larger blobs. WXP, then siege being tradeable and now these stat buffs.

The orb bonuses should not have been stat buffs all also should not spread across the whole wvw population. They should have made it so it had buffs such as quicker upgrades, more supply per dolyak. Things that directly add to defense and PPT rather than stats that help blobs and servers with superior coverage. They made a big mistake here again.

Secondly, GvG is very much an active and large part of WvW; however, I agree that ANET needs to separate GvG from WvW but they actually need to come out and say something on the subject or they are going to see a drastic drop in organized wvw population. This doesnt change the fact that arenanet has been kittenting on normal WvW from their patches in the last 6 or so months as well. Orbageddon sucks for us GvG-ers yeah but its equally bad for WvW-ers and PPT players.

The orb mechanic has to have meaningful impact on how WvW is played. I think stat buffs are the most straightforward means of doing this without HAVING TO snuff out all playability. The stat buffs need to be impactful, not overpowered. I wouldn’t mind the buffs not giving stats but unless Anet can devise a way to have the buff effect the gameplay in a meaningful way, which they seem woefully incapable of doing thus why they fell back on a stat buff, the orb mechanic may as well not exist.

10% more hp to all walls and doors per orb. 10% move speed to yaks, or 15% strength to guards. maybe even 5% dmg to siege engines vs walls/doors per orb but that may support the snowball.

^^ stuff like this, is WvW and makes a huge difference in the long term.

I have been thinking along the lines of triple wxp, double gold with quadruple from event completes, and yaks have increased health. Too much?

That sounds pretty rewarding, not imbalanced either

if( openingsthread has link )

move to linksville

else

move to ingame events

gg anet.

DevonCarver.5370:

I have said it before and it clearly bears repeating, our focus is on making improvements to WvW as a game type. When we implement changes it is with that goal in mind. We are aware of the GvG scene and we think it is really impressive, but the effects of any of our changes on GvG as it currently exists are not a priority for us. As such, when changes do come in, like the new map, some of them will be a positive for the GvG crowd and some will not. However, none of the changes we make are intended to stamp out GvG nor are they intended to make GvG more popular. When/if we focus our attention on GvG we will do our utmost to make it a game type that fits the needs of as many people as possible. That time is not now.

We are focused on WvW right now and improving it. Please try not to conflate our decisions in regards to WvW as some sort of judgement or endorsement of GvG in any form.

How much WvW do you actually play? I’m still waiting.

Most of this post is kitten and the player base recognizes it. Of the changes you’re making to WvW, please articulate the ones that you think are positive to GvG. I think we can figure out the negative ones.

It’s amazing to me that you would imply that GvG doesn’t apply to “as many people as possible”, in a game called Guild Wars. 99.99% of the players running around in WvW are guilded.

Innovation at ArenaNet seems to have left the building sometime ago. The upcoming change to WvW is simply adding a game within a game (much like SAB is a game within the game). You’re lifting sPvP and dropping it square in the middle of an existing game structure. I suspect you’re doing that because you are trying familiarize more people with that stagnant variant in hopes of drawing more of the casual WvWer into it and furthering your E-Sport dreams. If that’s your decision, ok, but don’t try to tell us that you’re making these particular changes to WvW to “improve” it.

This new system will cater to the zergers. There are numerous servers out there that can afford to put 20 mans on each of those 3 required locations and still have a large zerg running around taking towers/keeps and reinforcing a point as it comes under attack. This is going to force lesser populated servers to NOT play WvW, not play more.

And as to your last plea concerning our conflating your decisions in regards to you being supportive of GvG, please don’t worry. We would never do that.

DevonCarver.5370:

I have said it before and it clearly bears repeating, our focus is on making improvements to WvW as a game type…

We are focused on WvW right now and improving it.

If you’re focused on improving WvW, then why do you continue to ignore issues that have been evident since WvW’s inception? Answer that one Mr. Know it all Dev.

Pedra.4381:

How much WvW do you actually play? I’m still waiting.

Most of this post is kitten and the player base recognizes it. Of the changes you’re making to WvW, please articulate the ones that you think are positive to GvG. I think we can figure out the negative ones.

It’s amazing to me that you would imply that GvG doesn’t apply to “as many people as possible”, in a game called Guild Wars. 99.99% of the players running around in WvW are guilded.

I think the upcoming changes, as well as some previous ones, are absolutely horrible for WvW as a whole, but I don’t see what is so wrong with Devon’s post. He is straight up telling you that the GvG scene is simply not a consideration in their decisions right now. Sure that sucks for the GvGers, but it’s about as clear and honest as you can get.

And GvG doesn’t apply to that many people. The GvG community is small compared to the overall WvW community, which many GvGers are a part of. They are going to base decisions on what they think is best for the the larger community, even though many of us see that these decisions are not good for anyone. I don’t agree with the decisions, but I do agree with their intent. They aren’t trying to help GvGs, they aren’t trying to stamp them out, they are making decisions as if GvG didn’t exist. I’m not sure what else you can expect when you are trying to do something that was never intended to happen in WvW. Making even a small change to cater to only the GvG community would be giving it a “stamp of approval”, which is obviously something they are not prepared to do right now. This is most likely because GvG doesn’t bring anything to WvW. I realize that many GvG guilds are also active WvW guilds, but their actions during a GvG do nothing for the WvW matchup. What they do outside of a GvG does not serve to validate GvGs, or make their desires for GvG-related changes any more important.

The game is called Guild Wars for lore reasons, and to carry the same franchise name as the previous game. The “Guild Wars” was a period over 250 years ago during which 3 separate wars broke out between guild representing the 3 human kingdoms of Tyria. It has nothing to do with organized wars between player guilds.

And yes, most of us are guilded, but that doesn’t mean everyone in a guild has any interest in GvG. I’m in a guild of 500 (pvx, though more are PvE’ers), and I have none. I don’t recall anyone trying to get GvGs going, despite having a decent amount of frequent WvW’ers.

mrstealth.6701:

I think the upcoming changes, as well as some previous ones, are absolutely horrible for WvW as a whole, but I don’t see what is so wrong with Devon’s post. He is straight up telling you that the GvG scene is simply not a consideration in their decisions right now. Sure that sucks for the GvGers, but it’s about as clear and honest as you can get.

Thanks for the feedback. We will have to agree to disagree. I don’t think he’s honest at all. Do you believe that all the changes they are making are to make WvW better or try and sell sPvP to a wider audience? If it’s the latter then he needs to say it straight up.

They want to make changes to the game that affect as many people as possible? I wonder why that mindset doesn’t apply to Tribulation Mode of SAB. I can’t bring myself to believe that more people play TM than play GvG in WvW. Yet, ArenaNet has an entire team dedicated to that sub-genre.

In regards to GvG on Yak’s Bend. Talk to [GLOB], [ONE], or [PRO] (just off the top my head). They can give you insight into attempts to organize GvG on YB. It’s happening.

Pedra.4381:

Do you believe that all the changes they are making are to make WvW better or try and sell sPvP to a wider audience? If it’s the latter then he needs to say it straight up.

I think they want both, but they are going to make changes to both based on what their vision for each game type is. As far as highly organized PvP, it was made clear from the beginning that sPvP was the intended place for that to happen. WvW was sold as the more casual form of semi-PvP, so I don’t expect them to make changes catering to a hardcore organized group within WvW, but to make changes that support the WvW game type itself. That’s the message I got from Devon’s post, that they are focusing on WvW itself, not the unrelated sub-gametype of GvG that exists within it. I call it ‘unrelated’ because it has no impact on WvW battle/war score, aside from queue issues(which I actually saw happen last night).

Anet has made changes to sPvP to encourage more participation, and open it up to a more casual group of players. Probably because it was in very high demand, and because the casual playerbase is a lot larger than the hardcore playerbase. These changes also don’t have any impact on the hardcore segment of sPvP, as the matches are separate. Changes made to WvW to support GvG would impact WvW because everyone is on the same maps. Encouraging GvG on the current WvW maps only encourages the two to interfere with each other. What really needs to be done is to give GvGers a place of their own, even if it’s just a separate map/instance in WvW with no WvW related objectives.

They want to make changes to the game that affect as many people as possible? I wonder why that mindset doesn’t apply to Tribulation Mode of SAB. I can’t bring myself to believe that more people play TM than play GvG in WvW. Yet, ArenaNet has an entire team dedicated to that sub-genre.

There were a good number of requests for harder, more challenging content. I’d guess that the number of players interested in SAB TM is a lot higher than the GvG playerbase. Likely even higher than the amount of frequent WvW’ers. The PvE population is by far the largest segment of the playerbase.

TM is also just a rework of the SAB maps, not completely new content made by some separate team.

In regards to GvG on Yak’s Bend. Talk to [GLOB], [ONE], or [PRO] (just off the top my head). They can give you insight into attempts to organize GvG on YB. It’s happening.

I assume that most servers have GvG guilds. I don’t doubt that it’s happening, I know it is, but it’s still a small group in comparison to the WvW playerbase. The main reason you’re not likely to see WvW changes supporting GvG, is that GvG is not WvW. It’s an unrelated fight between two groups of players that does nothing for any team’s score. I realize that many of these players are participating in WvW while not GvG’ing, but that doesn’t make GvG important or validate its presence in WvW.

When I’m not doing something in PvE, I’m frequently in WvW. Does that mean more non-WvW-related PvE content should be added to cater to my liking of PvE content? I don’t think what’s in there now has any place in WvW (grub, vistas, etc). My point is that our preferences for game types other than WvW (whether that is PvP, GvG, or PvE) should not be catered to inside WvW. WvW is WvW, and if something is not directly related to WvW, it does not belong in the WvW maps.

mrstealth.6701:

I think they want both, but they are going to make changes to both based on what their vision for each game type is. As far as highly organized PvP, it was made clear from the beginning that sPvP was the intended place for that to happen. WvW was sold as the more casual form of semi-PvP, so I don’t expect them to make changes catering to a hardcore organized group within WvW, but to make changes that support the WvW game type itself. That’s the message I got from Devon’s post, that they are focusing on WvW itself, not the unrelated sub-gametype of GvG that exists within it. I call it ‘unrelated’ because it has no impact on WvW battle/war score, aside from queue issues(which I actually saw happen last night).

So original intent. sPvP for hardcore, WvW for the more causal semi-PvP crowd. Changes are being made to benefit both. Hmmm, ok. But here’s the problem, Mr. Stealth, the genres are no longer separate. They are mashing them together. They are doing this, not us. So, if what you articulate as original intent is accurate, they’ve abandoned their original vision. And further, no one that plays WvW, casually or otherwise thinks that the upcoming “Seasons” or this “Bloodlust” are positive for WvW, so your argument about benefiting everyone in WvW seems moot. I contend, still, that they are willing to degrade the experience of WvW players in hopes of saving their dreams of sPvP as an E-sport. They are desperate at this point and it shows.

You are wrong in your assessment that guilds that prefer GvG do nothing for the PPT game. On most servers, given all the external factors, GvG is really frustrating and getting one organized is difficult. So those guilds spend most of their time running around the BL’s zerg busting and defending the “casual WvW” player. If not for us, things would be a lot less interesting.

What really needs to be done is to give GvGers a place of their own, even if it’s just a separate map/instance in WvW with no WvW related objectives.

This is what we’re saying. It could be the exact same map. The solution could be as simple as what they did with the Jumping Puzzle. And then everyone’s happy.

There were a good number of requests for harder, more challenging content. I’d guess that the number of players interested in SAB TM is a lot higher than the GvG playerbase. Likely even higher than the amount of frequent WvW’ers. The PvE population is by far the largest segment of the playerbase.

If this is true then things said by various members of the development team are not truthful. During the Pax event (and subsequently in a post, I think), Colin said that the number of people playing WvW on a daily basis was greater than all the people that played GW1 during its peak. That sounds like a lot people. Josh said in several posts that he knew what he was doing with Tribulation Mode would appeal to only a small group of people but since ArenaNet wants to be inclusive it was done. Of the three statements, yours, Colin’s, and Josh’s, all of them can’t be true. I don’t dispute your position that PvE is the largest segment, only your thoughts on TM. So, in TM, there is precedence that (at least according to ArenaNet), they will cater to a small group. Now, actually, I think TM is all about ArenaNet trying to get written up in the trade journals, but that’s just me.

TM is also just a rework of the SAB maps, not completely new content made by some separate team.

That’s all we want.

When I’m not doing something in PvE, I’m frequently in WvW. Does that mean more non-WvW-related PvE content should be added to cater to my liking of PvE content? I don’t think what’s in there now has any place in WvW (grub, vistas, etc). My point is that our preferences for game types other than WvW (whether that is PvP, GvG, or PvE) should not be catered to inside WvW. WvW is WvW, and if something is not directly related to WvW, it does not belong in the WvW maps.

I would argue that there’s plenty of PvE outside of WvW if that’s your thing. But, if we could get what we want, I wouldn’t argue with you getting more PvE content in the BLs. Especially if there were announced events. Then we could put you on farm.

Pedra.4381:

So original intent. sPvP for hardcore, WvW for the more causal semi-PvP crowd. Changes are being made to benefit both. Hmmm, ok. But here’s the problem, Mr. Stealth, the genres are no longer separate. They are mashing them together. They are doing this, not us. So, if what you articulate as original intent is accurate, they’ve abandoned their original vision. And further, no one that plays WvW, casually or otherwise thinks that the upcoming “Seasons” or this “Bloodlust” are positive for WvW, so your argument about benefiting everyone in WvW seems moot. I contend, still, that they are willing to degrade the experience of WvW players in hopes of saving their dreams of sPvP as an E-sport. They are desperate at this point and it shows.

I’m not sure what changes you think are mashing the hardcore into WvW. I do see change to bring more casual players into certain aspects of sPvP, but is that actually having a direct effect on the hardcore aspect of it? I assume you can still just as easily have an sPvP match of between 2 teams of 5 organized players.

And I’m not sure how many times I need to point out in this thread that I think the upcoming seasons and borderland map changes are both horrible ideas. I never argued once that these changes actually benefit WvW in any way, but I do think believe that for Anet thinks they will benefit it. I don’t think they are intentionally damaging WvW in order to make sPvP more popular, they just don’t have any clue what they are doing. How does the saying go…Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.

I don’t think they are trying to damage GvG either, they are just not taking it into consideration at all in their changes. If they wanted to put an end to GvG, I’m sure they could easily pull it off.

You are wrong in your assessment that guilds that prefer GvG do nothing for the PPT game. On most servers, given all the external factors, GvG is really frustrating and getting one organized is difficult. So those guilds spend most of their time running around the BL’s zerg busting and defending the “casual WvW” player.

I never claimed they do nothing for PPT. I said they do nothing for PPT while doing a GvG, which is completely accurate, while making it a point to acknowledge the fact that many of them also participate in WvW while not GvGing. The point is that doing that GvG does nothing for WvW, and whatever these players are doing outside of GvG does not matter at all in this. I could do WvW for 10 hours, and it would still not make it ok to run around the citadel with 25 players for an hour.

This is what we’re saying. It could be the exact same map. The solution could be as simple as what they did with the Jumping Puzzle. And then everyone’s happy.

If this is true then things said by various members of the development team are not truthful. During the Pax event (and subsequently in a post, I think), Colin said that the number of people playing WvW on a daily basis was greater than all the people that played GW1 during its peak. That sounds like a lot people. Josh said in several posts that he knew what he was doing with Tribulation Mode would appeal to only a small group of people but since ArenaNet wants to be inclusive it was done. Of the three statements, yours, Colin’s, and Josh’s, all of them can’t be true. I don’t dispute your position that PvE is the largest segment, only your thoughts on TM. So, in TM, there is precedence that (at least according to ArenaNet), they will cater to a small group. Now, actually, I think TM is all about ArenaNet trying to get written up in the trade journals, but that’s just me.

I would love to see them cater to the GvGers, but for whatever reason they seem to not think it’s worthwhile to do. They have access to a lot more data regarding what content is being played the most, and I’m sure that plays a part in their decisions to cater to certain groups of players, but not to others.

We’ll likely never know any of the numbers behind any of this. The only real player statistic we’ve seen is the 460,000 peak concurrent players number. Considering the speed at which GW2 sold millions of copies, that’s likely much higher than GW1 ever reached. GW1 had lots of sales, but that’s over many years giving people time to come and go. The number of players active in WvW each day, which I assume is total over 24 hours and not concurrent, is still likely a minority of the number of people logging in over a 24 hour period.

It comes down to whether or not the subset of a subset of the community is large enough for Anet to think it’s worthwhile to cater and make changes/new content. Right now it seems you’ve gotten their attention, but they’re just not seeing it as enough to warrant the changes.